After Thoughts

After Thoughts: Friendships

April 22, 2025

0:00 | 34:05

In this After Thoughts episode, we reflect on our two-part friendship series—what it stirred up, what it revealed, and how it's been showing up in our lives since. We unpack our evolving definitions of friendship, the tension between connection and solitude, and how FaceTime calls, memes, and unexpected soccer games have become surprising measures of closeness.

We also get real about how easy it is for Fives to fall into isolation, the emotional weight of unmet expectations, and the healing power of being present with someone who just gets you.

IN THIS EPISODE:

🔹 Behind the Friendship Episodes — How we felt listening back, and what we didn’t expect to feel.
🔹 Seasonal Solitude — Why some stretches of life feel more isolated, and how we’ve been navigating that.
🔹 Friendship and Burnout — The quiet role friends play in helping us remember who we are when life gets heavy.
🔹 The FaceTime Test — A weirdly accurate way to gauge who really counts in your inner circle.
🔹 Unspoken Expectations — Why we sometimes pull away without saying why—and how we’re learning to handle that differently.
🔹 From Sitcom Vibes to Soccer Fandom — Reflections on unexpected bonding moments and why they matter more than we think.

Introduction and Welcome
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[00:00:00] Josiah: Was my phone.

[00:00:03] All

[00:00:03] right.

[00:00:05] We're here. Oh, we're on. We're on.

[00:00:07] Cody: Okay. Well it was already counting down,

[00:00:09] Josiah: right? I forgot about that. Welcome to Afterthoughts. That is not the afterthoughts voice. Welcome to Afterthoughts. That's way better. Yeah.

Reflecting on Friendship Episodes
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[00:00:22] Josiah: Alright, well we didn't get to record before the Friendship episode came out. Yes, that is true. So now we are recording the night before the Friends of Five's episode comes out. Yeah. And we're, we'll kind of have a conversation about the both of 'em together. 'cause I think that makes sense.

[00:00:42] Cody: I think

[00:00:42] Josiah: so. Yeah.

[00:00:43] Yeah. So if you haven't listened to those, I. Uh, you should probably go do that and then come back here. Yes. But we talk about our experience as fives and how we approach friendship and how we often neglect friendship. And then in the episode that's going to be released tomorrow morning, as of this recording, uh, that's where we bring in a couple of our.

[00:01:07] Longtime friends and asked them what it's like to be friends with

[00:01:10] Cody: us, which was a really fun conversation. It was a fun conversation.

Revisiting Past Conversations
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[00:01:14] Cody: I've been looking forward to that one for so long, like releasing it. 'cause we recorded it like Yeah, like August. Uh, September. Yeah. Yeah. I remember it was still hot outside.

[00:01:24] Josiah: Yeah. Well that was October Fest, so it was like end of September. Oh, you're right.

[00:01:27] Cody: Yeah. That's so funny. Yeah. So yeah, it was more like September, October, probably so. Not too, yeah. But it was, I mean, it feels like a lifetime ago when I was listening to the conversation. I was just like, man, it was a different, it feels like it could a

[00:01:38] Josiah: different

[00:01:38] Cody: time.

[00:01:38] Josiah: Yeah. From now. Yeah. It was so much fun though. Like we, because you know, Brandon came down for the weekend. Mm-hmm. And so we got to hang out all weekend and then we got to hang out with you like that most of that day too. That's right. We watched football that night. Yeah. That was fun. Yeah.

The Importance of Social Connections
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[00:01:57] Josiah: Uh, and I, listening back on that conversation today, I, it, it was a, it was a real good pick me up.

[00:02:10] Like it was just, it was, it was so nice to the, you know, we've had a lot of feedback that. One of the appeals of this show is that it's kind of like, you know, getting to listen in on mm-hmm. You know, old friends talking, which is basically what it is. Right?

[00:02:28] Yeah.

[00:02:28] Uh, but we just sort of ramped up that whole dynamic and it was, yeah.

[00:02:32] It was really cool how he turned it to 11. Yeah. Even though Brandon and Cody Ray had never met. They just like instantly jelled, you know, like all of us just kind of instantly jelled in that conversation. 'cause we'd never been in a dynamic with the four of us before.

[00:02:49] Cody: It was weird how I was thinking about that today when I was listening to it, which I don't often do.

[00:02:53] Listen to the episode right before it comes out. Usually I've been listening to it in pieces for so long, I don't want to, and so it's just, it's. This one I hadn't listened to in so long and I just wanted to listen to it all the way through, just kind of from a listener's perspective instead of editing it.

[00:03:06] And, um, I was, that was something that really kind of struck me first was how much I felt like it felt like everybody had known each other for so long. It was like, and it's funny because we referenced in the episode the vibe. Of like old sitcoms and old shows and stuff, and like, and, and they, and we're talking about like, maybe we have it here.

[00:03:23] And it's like, yeah, obviously, like, it sounds like a sitcom, like it sounds like a TV show almost like the, the, the dynamic back and forth think giving each other shit. Like it was, it was a good vibe and I was just like, I've thought about it ever since and it was just like, man, and when I was, when I was there, it reminded me of the bachelor trip.

[00:03:38] And so it was like, and those are the two times really in the last many years that I can think of where I felt like I was. In a group that I was like, I love this so much, I want to do it again. Yeah. You know? Uh, yeah. But it was, it, yeah. I did, it felt like they had already known each other a lot.

[00:03:55] Josiah: Yeah. I, I was walking around Coolidge Park because I uploaded it to our hosting and, um, and so I, I, I don't listen to it from the, from the editing app.

[00:04:06] Mm-hmm. I, listen, I upload it so that I can hear it, like, make sure that there's nothing goes wrong in that processing. Yeah. Um. And so I put my headphones on, was walking around Coolidge Park with a smoothie. Nice. And uh, and it was super muggy. Mm-hmm. But I didn't even mind 'cause I was like, you know, this is it.

[00:04:29] It reminded me of what I have in my life that I. Tend to take for granted. Yeah. Um, and I've, I've been, I, I needed that today. Like I've, I've been burned out a little bit the last few weeks. Yeah. Um, just a lot going on. Uh, you know, stuff working on Enneagram five stuff, but also a lot of like emotional turmoil of things going on in my life.

[00:05:03] Yeah, definitely. And I'm not sleeping well and which, which makes everything much harder. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and I was just feeling that today, like I, I texted you and told you I was having like a really slow, slow morning. Yeah. Um, but that. It brought my spirits back up. Mm. Yeah.

[00:05:28] Cody: I, uh, I think, I feel, I feel like I haven't really, I haven't been hanging out with people lately.

[00:05:34] Right. Yeah. Yeah, same. And so I, I definitely connect with you on that in terms of just like feeling like I've just been going and going and going for especially not as, not, I don't know about the whole, like, I mean, I guess like I'm always am, but like for the last couple weeks especially, it was like extra concentrated altogether.

[00:05:51] Josiah: Yep.

[00:05:52] Cody: And, um, I think that, uh, yeah, it just kind of got to me. I was really happy that the LA Saturday was the last thing, like in a row, that we had something to do almost every, we had something to do every single day. I. From morning till night last week, and it was just, it was a lot. Whether it was like work stuff or like things that we had planned months ago, and it just all was like, oh, we didn't plan this out Well, um.

[00:06:15] And so, yeah, I just, not hanging out with people lately and feeling kind of really disconnected and I think that that's been something that I didn't realize I needed in my life, which is easy to do as a five.

[00:06:28] Josiah: Yeah, dude, it's so funny. We, so two weeks ago was when we released a friendship episode. Yeah, I think maybe two and a half.

[00:06:35] 'cause we went, um, we moved back from Thursdays to, uh. Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah. We, we kind of skipped a week because we, we went from Thursdays to back to Tuesdays. Yeah. And, uh, and so it's been like almost three weeks I think, since we released that. Yep.

Experiencing the CFC Game
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[00:06:55] Josiah: And I. I, I thought it was really special because I was reviewing the episode, getting it ready to post on a Wednesday, and that night was the CFC game.

[00:07:08] Oh yeah. And

[00:07:09] that was the first time I had been to A CFC game. Yeah. Chattanooga Football Club. And you'd been wanting me to go forever. And we talked about that like in the friends episode before, in the friends episode a couple weeks ago. Yeah. It wasn't planned. Like I was already gonna go to the game and I, it happened to be the, the day that I listened to this and I was listening back and I'm like, oh yeah, we talked about that.

[00:07:29] Like I was gonna go to a C FFC game. You're gonna go cold plunging with me at some point. Mm-hmm. Because these are things that we want to share with each other. Right. Um, 'cause they're meaningful to us. And I'm like, this is awesome, because I get to, actually, I, I literally walked outta the coffee shop where I was listening to it and then like, walked down the street to the CFC.

[00:07:44] I'm like, this is so great. And that, that night was, was so much fun. And I felt like part of this, you know, I've, I've never really been in a sports guy, right? And after that experience, I'm like, oh, okay. I get the appeal, you know, I, and, and there's still. There's,

[00:08:07] Cody: I also feel like people who aren't into sports can get into soccer.

[00:08:11] I don't know why, but that's always, I feel like that's always the case with people I know. It's like interesting. I don't, not really watch sports, but I like soccer.

[00:08:17] Josiah: Anyway, sorry.

[00:08:17] Cody: Go on.

[00:08:18] Josiah: Yeah, I, there's still, uh, an internal struggle, I think as a, as a five of like intellectualizing what's going on and analyzing it.

[00:08:27] Yeah.

[00:08:27] And you know, like I. I joined you with the Chatta hooligans. And so we all marched in and I'm thinking like, as I'm doing this, like I felt like such a fraud. 'cause this was my first match, you know? I'm like, yeah, why? Um, but, but that was just all internal me. 'cause everyone there was like so welcoming.

[00:08:46] Mm-hmm. And I had friends that were there that I didn't know were, you know, even gonna be there. Yep. And so I got to see them and hang out and, uh, and it was just, it, it was this. Incredible time, even though we lost, but it was like a rollercoaster of a

[00:09:02] Cody: game. It was, yeah. And when it just happened to be like a massive rivalry with another team that moved in and tried to steal all our fans and steal our stadium and steal our coaches and steal our players and like it's just been this huge mess.

[00:09:16] And, um. Yeah. And so it's it, everybody always is like there's only one football, there's only one soccer team in. And this was our first

[00:09:23] Josiah: time playing them. 'cause we're in different leagues right? Time. Yeah.

[00:09:25] Cody: With different leagues. They're a league above us. So they were in USL and um, and we're in MLS next Pro.

[00:09:30] So it's like they're. MLS is minor team, essentially minor league. And so they're technically a league above us. And so, um, I think a lot of people were very nervous about it because it's been such a huge rivalry and they always talk about how like they're better than us or whatever, and have been pretty shitty publicly about it.

[00:09:47] And so, um, I. You know, we really wanted to beat them, but it was, it was kind of a long shot. We did only lose by one PK though. And anytime it goes to pks, it's a toss up. You're flipping a coin. Like it's not based on talent necessarily.

[00:09:59] Josiah: And we, we actually scored, but there was a penalty on it.

[00:10:03] Cody: Yeah.

[00:10:04] Josiah: And, and so we, it didn't count.

[00:10:07] Cody: Yeah. We would've been one point ahead and won.

[00:10:09] Josiah: Yeah. Oh man. That it was tied the whole time. I know. Such a crazy, such a crazy game. But I, I realized today. And I'm glad you brought this up 'cause I forgot I was gonna talk about it and forgot. Like, I haven't hung out with anyone since then. Mm. Like I haven't done really like anything social and I've not, because I've just been like caught up in my own world.

[00:10:33] Yeah. And I've not really, um, like been texting, texting people much. Mm-hmm. And this was a good reminder of. How much I actually do need that. Yeah. Because when I don't have that connection in my life, it just, I, I just like create this vortex and Yeah. Which kind of turns into like a black hole

[00:11:00] Cody: if I'm not careful.

[00:11:01] Well, and like especially lately, like I feel like just in the last maybe few months we've been talking more than we've ever talked.

[00:11:07] Josiah: Yeah.

[00:11:08] Cody: Like. I, I mean, I'd say we, we don't go more than just maybe even a few days without talking. So it's like I felt, I felt way more, we haven't hung out, but I felt more connected to your life and things going on in your life.

[00:11:19] 'cause I know, I don't have to wonder, like I generally kind of know what's happening in Josiah's life right now. Yeah. You know, and you know what's happening in my life for the most part, like when we catch up, it's like, I feel like it's been to the detriment of the Enneagram five Live podcast because it's like we end up just kind of talking about random shit and not what we wanted to.

[00:11:35] I'm, I love the new. Format with the segments. 'cause then it does give us something. Yeah. But before that, it was starting to get like when we were still doing, calling it after hours. Yeah. And it was just like, it was getting stagnant because we felt like we didn't really have anything to talk about. And I think that was part of it is 'cause we were kind of caught up so it didn't really feel like we needed to.

[00:11:51] And it was, it came more naturally when you did have stuff to catch up on. It came more naturally.

[00:11:55] Josiah: Yeah. We've been, we've been hanging out more because like, this is how the amount. That we probably would typically hang out in season when we're doing the podcast. Yeah. And then, but then we would, you know, go so long in between seasons.

[00:12:08] That's true. Yeah. And it, this was like a forcing function for us to like be proactive about.

[00:12:15] Cody: Yeah. It was a, yeah, it was like a inciting incident essentially. It like broke the patterns and then we were like, oh, we can hang out again.

[00:12:21] Josiah: Yep.

[00:12:21] Cody: Yeah. It gives us a reason to, it's purposeful. But I think that's something I've realized too lately is like how much I love hanging out for no reason.

[00:12:31] Yeah. And then honestly, you kind of brought me back into that 'cause you were like, I wanna hang out and I don't wanna talk podcasts, I just wanna hang out. I'm like, oh, that does actually sound pretty nice. Um, and so now I really love that and I've also learned how to. Like, relax and do nothing for an amount of time.

[00:12:47] That's something that's really hard for me. I don't, I, I mean, I already have anxiety and like my brain's always going like a million miles a minute. So, and I'm always thinking about five different things. And so like when I'm, it's been hard for me to like lay down and relax and like watch TV and spend time with Madison or something.

[00:13:01] It's just because like my mind is thinking about the things that I would, I want to be doing and I'm like, I was working on and took a break from or whatever, so my brain wouldn't shut off. And lately I. Sometimes with the help of substances like THC, um, yeah, I've been able to kind of turn that off or like quiet it down a little bit.

[00:13:20] And so I think I've enjoyed that more doing, like hanging out with other people and being more present and in the moment too. And so I think it's just kind of all kind of going in that direction.

The Value of Being Present
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[00:13:31] Cody: For me, it's, it's something that I didn't know I needed as much until now, but I mean, like even we're talking about the episode and.

[00:13:38] You know, the bachelor trip all. It's like, what was so great about that was we sure we all got along, but I felt really present in those times. Yes. You know, like I, and, and I was thinking about that walking through the grocery store and I was like, watching this dude, I'm, I'm di I'm digressing a little bit.

[00:13:55] Like I was watching this guy not get out of my way 'cause he couldn't look up from his phone long enough walking down the aisle of a grocery store and I'm like. I know I'm bad sometimes. I'm bad all the time about being on my phone, but like, I'm not even close to that bad. Like, I don't like when I'm out in public and stuff, I usually just don't look at my, I choose not to look at my phone as much as I can.

[00:14:13] Josiah: Yeah.

[00:14:14] Cody: And like when I'm hanging out with people, I don't think about my phone and, um, you know, if I'm not in work hours, like they can wait. And so, um, I've been a lot better about that and kind of been burned out on social media. So I haven't been looking at social media really either. And I've just found that like.

[00:14:30] Being more present in the moment, I think is also like bringing up more of those feelings about, um, like what, what friendships I have that I do have that connection with. And really it's only you at this point where I feel like if somebody asks me, I don't know if this is true of you, I'd say, yeah, maybe it's true of you.

[00:14:54] If somebody asks you who your best friend is, is it me or is it somebody else? Like your number one best friend.

[00:15:01] Josiah: I don't, and I'm fine with either way. I'm just curious. No, I, well, I've, I've just No pressure. I've asked, I've asked myself this many times. Yeah. So have I, and I don't, I don't think I've ever really had an answer because it's, it's like, it depends on the context, I think.

[00:15:15] Cody: Okay. Yeah.

[00:15:16] Josiah: Um, and. There are definitely points in my life where that was true. Yeah. I would've, I would've said that. I think I'm still kind of coming back. Said what? Said that you were my best friend. Mm-hmm. Okay. I mean, I, I literally have said that many times. Yes. Um, I think I, I think I'm kind of coming back from, you know, like the 20 21, 20 22 mm.

[00:15:41] Of getting back to feeling close with you again. That's fair. Yeah. That's fair. Um. And, but, but also like the, because I've been intentionally changing my view of friendship mm-hmm. Like my, like my model of what friendship means. Sure. Um, the, the concept of, of like best friend, um, well, yeah. I don't like the term.

[00:16:10] Yeah. I don't, well, it's, I I guess it's, it's more about like what. I had the way that I viewed like a best, I was always looking for like that best friend. Yeah. You know, that, that like filled this role. That was really unrealistic. And, um, because, but because I was, I never, I never thought of myself as someone who had a lot of friends.

[00:16:36] Yeah. Um, and, and that, and you know, we talked about, I had this story like, it's hard to make friends. Mm-hmm. Um. But I am, as I'm learning to, um, make friendships less about me. Yeah. Um, I don't, I don't even like think about best like the, like best friend as

[00:17:00] Cody: a think I And I think too,

[00:17:00] Josiah: I'm

[00:17:00] Cody: glad we went this way 'cause we didn't talk about this at all in either episode.

[00:17:03] No. So, like, this is kind of fun. Um, so I, I, I should have, I didn't, yeah, I should have, I didn't think about how you would take that and like go to like the generic.

Defining Best Friends
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[00:17:12] Cody: What we think of like what culturally, like what's, what a best friend is. Because I don't think I think of best friends that way either. 'cause I don't really like the term, I don't think of somebody as, it's not, it doesn't have to be a competition, you know?

[00:17:24] Right. And so like we, I don't know. I always say who's the best, you know, when,

[00:17:27] Josiah: whenever I refer to you, I'm like. Cody, one of my best friends, like,

[00:17:30] Cody: yeah, sure, definitely. Of course. Yeah. I've been thinking about this lately though. Um, because there wasn't, there was a time as like you just referenced, uh, I don't know if it was, I mean it was around that time.

[00:17:40] It was probably a little before that too. 'cause we just, you know, when you, you were gone for a while, moved across the country, like we were different parts in our life.

Staying Connected Through Memes
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[00:17:46] Cody: Like I've, we always stayed pretty connected, at least through memes, but like. Um, I mean, and it's funny 'cause we referenced that in the episode tomorrow about the memes and it's like, I think Brandon's the one who says, like, it's what, that's what a lot of friendships are these days.

[00:17:59] And honestly, it kept us together. So it's like we have memes to think for maybe this podcast. Yeah, thanks memes. Um, we, we had some good memes. Um, but, uh.

Who to Call in Important Moments
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[00:18:12] Cody: But yeah, I think that, um, there was a time, and then, and I wouldn't have, if I'm defining it as, and this is what I'll define best friends as, it's the person that it's, I mean, it's gonna be one of the first people you think to call when something really good or really bad happens.

[00:18:28] Hmm. And so when I think of like, and, and this is where I am now, and I wasn't always this way because I, of various reasons, including on myself, um. But especially now, like if anything happens in my life, if, if like, say I'm out somewhere and I'm by myself and something really bad or really good happens or insane or whatever, you know, uh, the people I'm gonna call probably is like, Madison, my mom and you.

[00:18:54] Yeah. Like that's the three people. And so like outside of that, that circle, you know, it's like. I, I wouldn't think they would to bother. I wouldn't think to bother them. 'cause we don't have that kind of connection. It's like they're, maybe they don't even care. I don't even know what they're doing, you know?

[00:19:07] And so like, it, it kind of does stem back to. Um, just being connected on a regular basis, which is something I think that I would think five struggle with universally is 'cause I don't stay connected. I, I left to my own devices and not being intentional about it. I'm not connected to anybody for any consistent amount of time.

[00:19:27] I can't, it's hard for me to connect consistently with my own spouse. I know. You know? Yeah. And so, um, and sometimes just that is all I got. That's all the energy I have to be connecting consistently is just like, you gotta, you know, the spousal relationship is, is a complicated one.

Evaluating Friendships and Expectations
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[00:19:41] Cody: And so, um, I. I think that, uh, that's, that's played a huge part in it though, where it's like, where I am now and where I feel like, and because of that I've started judging other relationships based on that, like, and, and I shouldn't say the word judge, I've been.

[00:19:57] Uh, that's not measuring doesn't sound great either, but I've been, um, uh, observing and reflecting. Yeah, there you go. Other, uh, on, on my other friendships in my life and kind of what role they play in my life and, and, and, and trying really hard not to expect too much. Like my expectations aren't higher than what that role is.

[00:20:24] Mm-hmm. Because if I do that, then I tend to start resenting them. Right. Okay. And so, um, and I think of that, um, I. With a lot of the people in my life.

The Illusion of Having Many Friends
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[00:20:34] Cody: 'cause I think I'm in a weird place in life right now where I think that, I think, I think there's a lot more people in the world that think they're my friend than I think they're my friend Uhhuh.

[00:20:43] Does that make sense? Yeah. Like, and, and I've never had that before, but just in the nature of my job and I'm always out, always seeing people in in, in the city just keep getting to know more and more and more and more people. And so there's people that I can tell with the energy that like they want to be friends, but it's like.

[00:20:59] I only got enough energy for so many friends. Right. And it's like, I don't know if you're worth it yet. Like I gotta get to know you a little more. Um, that's

[00:21:07] Josiah: funny. 'cause I always think of you as having a lot more friends than I do.

[00:21:11] Cody: Really?

[00:21:11] Josiah: Yeah.

[00:21:12] Cody: I think it's because I think it's, I think it's an illusion. I think it's because of how many people know me.

[00:21:17] And it's not, it's not that they were friends necessarily. I have, um, yeah, I mean, I have a thousand acquaintances that know their name and their face, but like maybe know some things about 'em. Like so in that regard, yeah, we're friends, but it's like fairly surface level in that way. Yeah. Because it's like I don't go out and hang out with them and stuff.

[00:21:32] And I also am, I don't ask people to hang out very much. And we've talked about this in other episodes, right? It's been an issue. I know that Cody Ray was talking about that, but like, I also. Like, and I've gotten better at it. I asked the hand, you know this, I've asked, yeah, I've invited you to things. I've tried to get better at it.

[00:21:50] Um, but what I've found is that I also have like a, it's like an unconscious, except for now, um, an unconscious kind of rule of like how many strikes you get if I invite you to things and you don't come and you keep bailing or flaking out or whatever. Uhhuh. And, and then there's a point where I'm like.

[00:22:12] I'm, it's your ball's in your court now. I'm not, I'm not gonna invest anymore in trying to get the hangout if you're just gonna keep flaking. And so, um, and I get that a lot with all kinds of people. So it's just like, and it's honestly helped me so much in. Not getting too high of expectations of people because it, one, I just take it for what it is.

[00:22:31] I've learned to just be like, I'm, I wasn't the priority in this situation. And that's fine, like move on from it and it helps me like re retarget, re reorganize my energy and priorities. Um, but

[00:22:44] Josiah: yeah,

[00:22:45] Cody: I don't know. That's been hard.

[00:22:45] Josiah: Yeah. I also think there's something to be said for seasons. Um, definitely.

[00:22:49] Yeah, for sure. Like we, in kind of what you're just talking about, there are seasons that are. Are more introspective and like you are, you're head down, you're focused on something. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and I've noticed that usually when I'm in that phase, a lot of people around me are in that phase too. Yeah. Um, and that's one of the reasons why I haven't been hanging out as much too, is like some of the guys that I would normally, you know, go grab coffee with or something.

[00:23:19] Yeah.

[00:23:19] Um. They're like, they have an intense project they're working on. Mm-hmm. Or they're doing a lot of traveling right now, and it's like the last month or so has just been, you know, yeah. Not feasible for, for any of us to really connect. Sure. Um, and, and I know that like, that'll ebb and flow. Sure. And so, um.

[00:23:44] Well, yeah. And that's,

[00:23:44] Cody: that's the difference is not cutting people out. Right. Like, I should say that in my process is like, just 'cause I reprioritize or, or leave the ball in someone's court doesn't mean that I'm like cutting them out of my life, which I would've probably done before, right? Yeah. I wouldn't, I don't care about me, so move on.

[00:23:57] You know? And I, I don't do that necessarily. I don't necessarily try to hold it against them too much. I just accept the, I really try. To accept the information, unbiased, like it's like a neutral, this is information that I now know, what am I gonna do with it? I'm just gonna like, let it inform the situation and move on.

[00:24:15] Right now I'm not a priority in that person's life. They've, you know, we've tried to hang out for forever and it's fine. Um, and, and, and I am talking about somebody specific, but also somebody in general too. Like just, I've had it happen a lot throughout the last like year or so. And. Um, but there's, there are people, I do have a, a short list of people that I refuse to make any effort for because I made it for so long with nothing.

[00:24:38] And so it's like they know the ball's in their court. I have verbally told them at this point, like, Hey. I am balls in your court. I'm not inviting you to things. If you want to come, if you wanna be friends, let me know. That's basically where I left it and I'm fine with it. It's like, yeah, I

[00:24:52] Josiah: think that's reasonable.

[00:24:52] Cody: It's, yeah, you move on and it, and it's because like that's the thing that I think that I didn't get before, even when I was recording the first, the friendship episode from last summer. And I just feel like that's something that I've really been trying to work on this year and be more kind of just aware of.

[00:25:07] It's just how I, how I approach friendship, but just also like. Uh, making sure that like, I don't know, being real with myself about my own insecurities or my own social anxieties or expectations or all that kind of stuff, and just trying to be better about communicating those expectations because. It's really hard to, it's not fair to hold something against somebody when they had no idea that it was happening.

[00:25:36] Yeah. And we all do that to e to each other. And so I would rather try to make that not happen as much as I can. Um, just because then it builds resentment and literally the other person may have no clue what's happening. So it's just, you know, it's all internal, which I feel like is also a thing that we fall victim to all the time with ourselves as, as fives is like.

[00:25:59] Creating our own inner narrative, and then that's the new reality. What? I don't ever do that.

[00:26:10] Josiah: No, never. I love you, Amy. I know you're gonna be listening to this.

[00:26:20] Yeah, that's man. Um, yeah. Well, I think one of the things too, because this came up. I believe in the friendship episode.

Struggles with Communication
---

[00:26:30] Josiah: Um, one of the things that had made it challenging in the past was you would just not respond to me.

[00:26:36] Cody: Yeah.

[00:26:37] Josiah: A lot. Yeah. I'm real bad about it. I still am bad about it. Sometimes you've gotten better.

[00:26:43] Cody: Yeah.

[00:26:43] Josiah: Um, at least with me. And that helps a lot because there's, I think there were many times where I was like, ah, I wanna tell Cody about this. But then I go to the message and I realize like, I've sent you like five or six separate messages over the last few weeks. So we're the same

[00:26:58] Cody: in this. And,

[00:26:59] Josiah: and yeah.

[00:27:00] Well, well, no, it's like, uh, apparently he's, you know, either he is got something going on or he just doesn't feel like talk to me right now. So I'm not gonna keep bothering him if Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, but I didn't, to your point though, I didn't reach out. Mm-hmm. And you know, say, Hey, you know, I noticed that you've been radio silent.

[00:27:18] Is it something I did or is it you just going through something just, you know, no worries. Just lemme know. Yeah. Um, it's making me feel a way and I just wanna make sure it's an accurate way to feel. Yeah, yeah. Which is a, i i, I should have done that for sure. Um, it's hard though. Yeah. That, that is hard. But, you know, that is something that I've been, I've been practicing more of that kind of stuff.

[00:27:38] Mm-hmm. Um, and in realizing that like as I've spent time with like people who would do that sort of thing for me too, and realizing how I take it of like, you know, I actually appreciate that they're being upfront about this.

[00:27:53] Yeah.

[00:27:54] Um. And, and so that gives me more confidence to do that with other people, that sort of thing.

[00:28:00] With other people too. Yeah, for

[00:28:02] Cody: sure. I think, and, and, and also too, like I hate when people don't respond to me. You know what I mean? Like, I hate it today. I was like, I was texting everybody trying to get this stuff done, and it wasn't just you, but there was a period of time where you didn't respond to me and I was like, the hell is he doing?

[00:28:23] It's been responding to me. I am his work hours. Now we do this. Now

[00:28:26] Josiah: the the, the thing you do have to be aware of though is that, um, it timely responses from me. Yeah. Um, probably won't happen because I have. All of my notifications shut off on my phone. Mm-hmm. Yeah. The, the only text notifications I get are from Amy.

[00:28:42] Cody: Yeah.

[00:28:43] Josiah: Um, and now I, and then like you are on my favorites list, so if you call me, it'll come through. Right. But texts won't come through. And then, like my home screen on my phone, I do know that. Yeah. My, my home screen on my phone looks like this. It's just, it's like a. Like a dumb phone, basically. Mm-hmm. Um, and kinda like

[00:29:01] Cody: that.

[00:29:01] You didn't show me how to do that. I've been trying to do that to my phone. Yeah,

[00:29:03] Josiah: it's, well, the, the, I, it probably wouldn't work for you right now just 'cause you need to get messages and things. Oh, well, yeah. Because it doesn't show me like how many NRE messages I have or, or anything like that as soon as I open the phone.

[00:29:15] Mm-hmm. And so it's like I, uh. I miss a lot, and so I, yeah. I end up like going through, I'm not, I'm not very responsive or reactive, um, which for me personally is really good. Mm-hmm. But I know it can frustrate other people because Sure. I, I, I'll sit down and do it all in like one batch. Yeah. And then, and so then it looks like, oh, he just responded to me.

[00:29:37] 10 minutes ago, which means he'll see this if I respond, but then I don't see it for a day.

[00:29:42] Cody: Like, yeah. Well, and, and I do know that and I always forget that, but also too, like I wasn't actually mad, you know? No, I know, obviously, but, um, but I was like, it was right in a time where no one was responding to me, uh, workwise, yeah.

[00:29:54] People that I was, you know, and then trying to organize tonight and everything. And I was just like, why is nobody talking to me right now? Like this is. So aggravating. I just wanna get this shit done so I can check the box and move on, you know? And so, um, and that's also something I've become very, very, like, adamant about is the check the box and move on thing.

[00:30:11] Like, I don't, I don't let, uh, I don't let myself move on from something unless it's completed. And so like, oh yeah. You know what I mean?

ADHD and Task Management
---

[00:30:21] Cody: Because otherwise it's, you know, I've been watching a lot of videos on a DH ADHD lately and realizing that regardless of what I have or don't have, that is an, that's, that's a, that's part of the, it's an ingredient in the pot, you know?

[00:30:32] And so as if you didn't know, you know, I think everybody on this podcast knows at this point, um. But I, I, I was like, I was watching this video the other day. I'm, I'm gonna digress again for a second. I watched this video about like a DHD people should put in the fridge. Everything always goes bad, which is true.

[00:30:52] Um, and they said for A-D-H-D-I think it's worth for everybody, but they were like, I'm a DHD and I buy fruit and vegetables and I don't want them to go to ba go bad. I buy them for a reason. And so instead of putting them in the drawers, they put their sauces in the drawers and they put the vegetables in the door.

[00:31:09] Josiah: Huh.

[00:31:09] Cody: And I was like, that's ama that, that, that changed my life watching that video, huh? And then this other person was like, when I get an ingredient out, I use it and I put it away. I don't sit on a counter. Not allowed to put it on a counter, not on the counter, put it away. And I was just like. It's on, it's so stupid, but it, that is like revolutionary to me.

[00:31:27] I never thought about it. And so I've been really about like trying to check tasks off before I move on. And it, otherwise it won't ever come back into my brain until it's too late. And so, um, I. I think that was part of it too. And so like, I was just like in a, in a place earlier, I was like, why is nobody talking to me?

[00:31:44] But I do get that.

FaceTime as a Measure of Closeness
---

[00:31:46] Cody: I was thinking about too, um, have you ever thought about like basing your close relationships or like measuring close relationships based on, um, for me, I was thinking about this today at and, uh, if you, who you would pick up a FaceTime call from. Ooh, yeah. I like

[00:32:03] Josiah: that.

[00:32:04] Cody: Yeah.

[00:32:05] Josiah: Because it's not a very long list.

[00:32:07] Cody: No, it's like three people. I pick up a FaceTime call from my parents, my brother Uhhuh, um, Madison. I would, and I was thinking about it. I was like, if Josiah called me in the middle, like out of nowhere, but it was a FaceTime call. I. Would I pick up? And I was just like, yeah, I would have to pick up. 'cause I would've to be like, why the fuck is he calling me with a FaceTime call?

[00:32:28] I'm gonna do that to you now. That's fine. But like, there's only so many people that you would let into visually let into your life in whatever moment. Yeah. No matter what it, what it is. You know, like I'd say like our friends, um, like Kenzie, I'd probably pick up a FaceTime call from her 'cause she's so, like at this point she's like, that's Madison's best friend.

[00:32:44] So like. For sure. Super involved in our life, so it feels like family. And so that's what I feel like at that, that's the line is like, do they feel, 'cause I've, I've said for a long time, especially now though, like before, it is like you felt more like family than a friend. Now I'd say you feel more like a friend than family, but like it's, it's an it intermingles Yeah.

[00:33:03] Whatever, depending on the season, like you said.

[00:33:05] Josiah: Yeah.

[00:33:07] Cody: Yeah.

[00:33:07] Josiah: I would, I would pick up a FaceTime call from you.

[00:33:11] Cody: I figured you would say. Yeah, because you'd again, you'd be like, why? Why? I wanna know. You know? Um, but, and I think that fuels it a lot, but also it's just like, yeah. Who are you letting into your moment?

[00:33:21] 'cause it's FaceTime call that is a call is invasive. FaceTime call is super invasive. Yeah. Especially if you're on the toilet. Which I would answer on the toilet I think. I think I would do. Because I mean, you're not seeing nothing. It's just your shoulders.

[00:33:36] Josiah: I could be naked on the toilet, but there's that, but there's that bath, there's that bathroom echo that just gives it away.

[00:33:41] Oh, yeah. So it's like, might as well be a FaceTime call.

Concluding Thoughts on Friendships
---

[00:33:48] Josiah: Well, on that note, friendships. Friendships, yeah. Go get you some. Go get you some Are. We ended it. Are we done? I think so. Okay. All right. Bye. A little short little conversation by, wait, how long is it? 34 minutes. Oh, that's good enough. All right. Bye. bye-Bye.