Inside Stout
Inside Stout
Inside Stout Ep. 7 - SMARTArt Augmented Reality App
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The latest episode dives into the world of augmented reality as we chat about the SMARTArt app that was developed over the summer of 2021. The Stout Mobile Augmented Reality Tour of Art app will allow anyone on campus to learn more about art on campus through a smart device such as a cell phone or laptop.
Guests:
Harrison Kelly, B.F.A. Game Design and Development - Art
Mitch Ogden, Program Director of Professional Communication and Emerging Media
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Hello, everyone. Welcome to inside stout, a UWC stout podcast that focuses on the stories of students, faculty, staff, and others from our campus community. I'm Rachel hugged Grimson
Speaker 2And I'm Pam powers. And we are members of the marketing communications team here to share with you everything that makes UWC unique. Rachel, recently we had the opportunity to share the stories of two fantastic women working in stem. Today. We're talking about art on campus and the creation of an augmented reality app, smart art that when you use a smart device like a com like a cell phone or a laptop or a tablet will help interpret and give more information on the art we have on campus.
Speaker 1We are going to talk about a lot of things, art today and technology. I'm very excited. So I want to introduce the two experts. We have to talk about this today. Harrison
Speaker 3I'm Harrison Kelly. I am a game design , uh , art major and on the smart art team was kind of in charge of art in general, in that kind of direction. Yeah .
Speaker 4And I'm Mitch Ogden . I'm an associate professor here in the English and philosophy department and program director for the professional communication in emerging media major and on this project, I guess I was the executive producer and , uh , uh, helped to guide and direct the students as they, we developed this new tool.
Speaker 2So let's kind of kick off. Tell me a little bit about what is the smart art app and what's kind of the plan that'll be used for.
Speaker 4So the smart art app really grew out of the controversy from a few years ago, with two murals that were painted by Cal Peters back in the 1930s here on campus. Uh , and some of our listeners will remember , um, 2016 when this, when Harvey hall reopened and those, those paintings were installed , uh , in Harvey hall, they are anachronistic in a lot of ways. They have representations of first nations, indigenous people and representations of what , uh , the fur trade and sort of the time of a Wisconsin settlement, what it looked like. Um, and people were concerned that they by themselves didn't represent a full and complete history. Uh, and so there was a lot of conversation with the community , uh, in the university. And the decision was to make , let's get them out of really prominent public places. And the main hallways of Harvey hall. Let's put them places where we can more carefully and intentionally curate them, talk about them and engage those histories in the, in the, in the problematics of representation and art in a meaningful way. That's what we do as a university, right? Well, we moved the paintings, but we've never gotten the second part of that , uh , promise to , to curate those and engage the information and engage viewers to think more deeply about it. That's where smart art really began. The idea that we can, we can put up some signs and some plaques around a piece of artwork, but no one, no one reads those or they don't read them very carefully. And they're very limited in how much you can present, but augmented reality allows you to put on as much information as you think your user can handle. It can be layered, it's interactive. You can change it on the fly. It's not printed and doesn't get fixed or locked in in that concrete way. And so that seemed to me that the best way to engage controversial or , or , or problematic artwork is to make it a really attractive and interactive experience. Then you can share all kinds of information about the art. That's the beginning point. And then of course we have art all over this campus, and there is so little known about it. It's so hard to understand if you haven't taken an art history class or don't know art well, yourself, you feel kind of ignorant or uninformed. So we hope that this app will really allow , uh , lots of different users engage with visual art across our campus in, in as deeper and richer ways.
Speaker 1Well, Harrison, how are you approached about this?
Speaker 3Um, let's see. The approach was, I believe I got recommended it by Joshua Seaver. Uh, as I had previously worked on a virtual reality project and they overlap a good amount , um, past that, then I got in contact with Mitch and over the next few weeks, there was a couple of meetings here and there and we got a team together. So
Speaker 1Cool. So what has it been like to work on a team like this? Cause it , you said that you've been on other teams for virtual reality. So this is how is this similar, what's the team on team morale or
Speaker 3For virtual reality then , uh, there's a lot more art development because you have to create the entire space that the person is in, whereas this, because it's augmented reality, you're overlaying stuff that doesn't exist on stuff that does. So you already have the entire painting. You're just editing stuff here and there. Sure. To serve a purpose. Uh, also for virtual reality, a lot of the projects were mainly myself. So then this was nice to have , um, like actual programmers that know a lot more about using unity and using view 40 and a lot of these other things. Uh, so it was a lot less weight on my shoulders to try and learn like the entire system by myself instead I could have other people do it. Very
Speaker 4Cool. We should introduce the other, the whole team . Uh , Brian Bausch is another game design , uh, student , uh, on the computer science side and Jacob car . Uh, so those two were the where the programming leads and development on that side. And so it was, to me, it was the perfect trio to have , uh, art , uh, game design student with , uh , attention to visuals and thoughtfulness to user interface and how spaces work with users and then to have Brian and Jacob there , uh, to be able to really push through and code, right , the complex sort of interactions , uh , that this kind of tool requires. Uh, and I have to say it was amazing , um , to be able to work with them. I set , you know, broad direction and broad vision for the project. And then I watched them week after week, dig in and chip away, solve problems, bring prototypes back to me. It's a pretty amazing experience.
Speaker 2You are actually looking for an app and this is actually filling a niche where there is no other such apps out there. If I recall. And I also hope you'll talk a little bit about who helped fund the app.
Speaker 4Yeah, well, yeah. So since 2016, it's not like we've been sitting around just twiddling our thumbs. We've been trying to find some platform that would make this vision of augmenting our artwork on campus controversial. And non-controversial , we're trying to find that platform. And , uh, through my courses and digital humanities, we tried different approaches. We tried, tried different tools. None of them really fit the bill. Uh, they're built for other purposes. A lot of those projects haven't been sustained. So they've come onto the market quickly and briefly, and then gone away. So it's weird because augmented reality is such a hot, exciting area. There's a lot of interest in it. And yet there wasn't that tool sort of ready-made for, for students or anyone to create content in this way. So after several years of kind of trying and failing , uh, different platforms to find something, it became apparent, we do step to make it. Uh , and that was when I approached , uh, Tim Schiele and the Menard center for the study of institutions and innovation. And because the project started with this idea of controversial art, which surrounds the idea of, of free speech and of , uh, the expression of our views and ideas and opinions, it was a very good fit for the Menard center. Um, in Tim was , uh , was really supportive of the idea , uh , and he was able to make that budget available to hire this fantastic team this last summer.
Speaker 1I'm wondering for the years to come, how this could grow and be developed more, have you thought about, or are there currently plans for how to sustain it as students come and go? It has that been talked about at all?
Speaker 4Sure. So this is really phase one and phase one was this build the platform , uh, establish a platform where we can actually functionally put the content forward. Um, and so we have a little bit of refining and tweaking to do to get the process , uh, down, but then certainly , uh , by the spring semester, we'll be engaging some of these digital humanities students. Uh, and I'm talking with some of the faculty in art history to see where we can build this into courses. It's the perfect tool, right? If you're taking an art history class to select a piece of work , uh, do some independent research on it, gather up some information and create then an augmented reality experience. Specifically for that piece of work, you could make it for third graders or for , uh, international visitors, or you could, you can really sort of tailor this to be used in a lot of ways. So we hope that this becomes integrated into a lot of our courses , uh, and , uh, we'll need to find that that way to really sustain. Um, I think we'll be able to work with the archives. Uh , they have an interest in , uh, in always making sure we know what's on our campus and sharing it with the public. Uh, and so it's exciting to have now the platform, now we can start building the content and engaging all the different players and how that works.
Speaker 2What have I love about the augmented reality idea is that you can go deeper and deeper and deeper looking more and more into a piece of art depending how you react to it. Or if you want more information or you can just get a little snippet, it's really going to be designed for the viewer and their , or, you know , their interest level know and how much they want to go in depth into a piece of piece of work , uh , work. Um, one of the questions I often think about is art is, is really in the eye of the beholder. One of those very famous quotes , um, and we all have different reactions to art. I react differently to art. Then you may, or Rachel May, how does this app help with that? How does that talk with me a little bit about, because we all have different interpretations of a piece.
Speaker 3Yeah. So in this regard , uh, art is a very deep subject for that because there's so many things that go into it from technique to the history behind it, to the actual subject matter itself. And when it comes down to that explaining any artwork, if you have something that can teach all of the different , uh, sides of the piece from the techniques you used from the history behind it, from the era it was created, then you can explain it without having to miss any of that. Because if you miss some of that for certain artwork, then it's no longer appreciate.
Speaker 4My sister just started teaching , uh , AP art history. She's a social studies teacher. So this is her first year. We've had some great conversations over the summer as we've been working on this app and she's got all these, you know, they have a list of 150 , like , like really significant pieces of art that the students are expected to learn. There'll be tested on them through the AP exam. Um, and it just , uh, there's so much like, like, like Pam, like you were saying, there's so much to know. And there's so many layers from history to aesthetics, to , uh, to the biography of the artist and the artists community just , and I , and I just feel like culturally broadly , uh , as Americans, I don't know , maybe as humans, we just know so little of that, we get, you know , we get deep into our music. Uh, we get deep into our films and our favorite books. I feel like that stuff swirls around our TV shows good heavens right there. So, but visual art, like it's the, it's the, it's that cultural object kind of on the sidelines. And it shouldn't be that way. People, people love it, but I still think we , we found a way to push the push that closer to us, make it more accessible.
Speaker 2That's very true. How many times do we walk by the same piece of art? I do it myself. I look at it and go, oh, I know nothing about it, perfectly on campus. That happens to me a lot. And I know nothing about it and I would love to learn more, but then I keep on going. I'm going to my next thing. So this would give people the opportunity to just learn more about everything that's around them on campus.
Speaker 1I think it's so neat, Mitch and Harrison too, but I have a history with Mitch because I was a professional communication and emerging media student and Mitch was my program director for a few of the years. I was here. And even when I was in the program, Mitch and all the other faculty in the PSM program made a point to have us be a part of projects that were cross-disciplinary with other majors. And I know that you've continued that, and I know that you've done stuff with construction students and other other areas. And I think that this is such a cool thing. I know that other schools do this, but I, but stout I'm immersed in the world of UWC. So like I get to experience it firsthand and see it, and obviously get to talk to both of you about this. But I think that's what makes it so special is that you get to work with people that are an expert in something different than you. And I think that's what truly prepares you for the real world and teams that you'll be on in the industry or field that you're going into. And that's what I experienced when I was a student, especially in a class where I had to work with like graphic designers and I'm not a graphic designer, I'm a writer and a content developer it's different, but similar enough, anyway, my point is that is how stout prepared me. And I see that still happening, which makes me so excited. And I know that as much as mission here, and I know that there's so many other faculty's mission here, which I think is Sony . So here ,
Speaker 2That would be a good thing to hear from you. Talk, how you see working on this app will help you in your future career.
Speaker 3Yeah. Uh, I mean, definitely the experience of working on an app itself , uh, is a very useful thing to have and working on a team because a lot of the time within game design, then we have kind of set teams and we're working on a game and it's, it's very classroom-based . Whereas this was a lot more like development based. It felt like instead of trying to hit the milestones to get a grade, we were just trying to make the app. And the milestones came along with that process. Um, in terms of future , uh, I now have experience working in AR and not just VR, which I already actually got an email again from Joshua Seaver of apparently UWO green bay is thinking about doing something with AR, but yeah, it's, it's definitely been a good experience because it's something that I've been interested in since I think 2016, it was right around when they were first showing the Google glass and then later the hollow lens. Um, but it's just, everything has felt kind of lackluster consumer wise for AR and it was fun to get into AR and kind of see the process to make stuff.
Speaker 1Yeah. And in something that's so close to you like geographically or here, and it, it's something that you can put, I don't know your heart into, because it's mean something to you in your part of your history, being a student here,
Speaker 4We could probably talk about AR a ton and you can cut all this out. Uh, if it doesn't, if it's too big, but you know, Pokemon go was the big, what year was that? 20 15, 20 15, 20 16.
Speaker 1That was right after I run when I graduated. Yeah .
Speaker 4So Pokemon go, this exploded. Right. And, and that was, you know, Google glass failed. Uh, Microsoft HoloLens continues, but it's super expensive and super specialized. They're really early targeting enterprise uses industries like the medical industry, like , like property, like facilities management, where they really have, high-end sort of like very focused high technical uses and applications, not much for the consumer and that whole Pokemon go to my, in my view, it was an experiment to see our human beings were not ready to put on goofy glasses and walk around town yet, tap the sides and give double points or whatever else controls them. But we already had our faces stuck on our phones 90% of the time that we're conscious. And so goo a Pokemon go was just that like sort of test of the market to see if , uh, if people were interested in using their phone as a , uh, a unique view on the real world. And of course it blew up and people were outside and people were in groups and I was in Austin for a conference and I was walking past the Capitol there in Texas. And I remember it was late. I had gone to, I had gone to a movie downtown. I was headed back to my hotel and there are all these like young adults and teenagers all around the Capitol grounds. I'm like, look at this. This is so great. The youth of America are out socializing. And then I realized, well, they are socializing all around this Pokemon go app. They were catching and trapping and releasing and training all the things I don't know about. But , but interestingly, not nothing has happened since then. Right. There's this huge breakthrough. I think the Harry Potter , uh, you know, AR game has been like really kind of lackluster. It, hasn't gotten very far it's bewildering to me that we haven't , uh, someone hasn't sort of seized the opportunity , um, to, to really there's just, Pam was , you were saying, are you walking past a building? And I have all these questions. When was it built? Who lived there? How long has it been there? Was it different? Has it been remodeled? Did it ever catch on fire? I mean, there's a thousand things. Every building every corner of a , of a city block, every , uh, every piece of art , uh, there's just so many stories that could be told they could be just, it could just be historical and factual, informational. It could be easily woven into an adventure game. Uh , like there's just so many ways. And , uh, I mean, smart art doesn't have , uh , nearly that level of ambition. We just, we need to have an informational platform that's engaging and easy to use, but I hope that it starts to help people get a vision. Uh, and it may be it's this batch of students, right. That come through that, see it, that use it. There'll be the ones out in industry saying, right . There's so many more things we can do with augmented reality. Let's not squander this , um, this really powerful tool.
Speaker 1So this summer you've had this group working on the app, but for this semester, and I guess this whole year, what are the next steps? Is it going to be like classes that are working on it? Or are you going to have, like, you know, is there funding for like, it's a job outside of their classes or what are next steps and then for the, for the actual project and how the students are involved, but then also for the development of that.
Speaker 4Yeah. So the, at this point we're going to , we're going to take this a beta version and we're gonna, we're gonna deploy it in the classroom in the spring semester. Uh, really then we'll , we'll really have a batch of students that are creating content , uh, that are working through that, that will, that will reveal some of its shortcomings or maybe some of the confusing points we still need to iron out. Um, we will wait to see , uh, the future development. You , one of the things that Tim in the Menard center was immediately interested in is the possibility to, for, for this to go beyond campus. We haven't even defined the acronym yet. It's one of my favorite acronyms. It's the stout mobile, augmented reality tour of art. Um, and so it's branded with Stout's name right in it, but Tim , uh , in his, his wisdom and his broad thinking recognize that this is a tool that other institutions , uh , would be interested, not just universities, but , um, art galleries, art museums , uh, large and small , um, some have developed some augmented reality , uh , applications for their own institutions, but not that many, most of them are around a single installation and they're kind of driven by the artist herself and they don't kind of apply broadly to be used across the collection. So , uh, Tim's vision has been , uh , you know , to make this available, to have it as an open source project that others could could take on. If that, if, if we move ahead, they'll need to be some more development, further documentation , uh, and further design and testing so that it can go out to other institutions and, and be ready for them to use. They'll have to rebrand, well, they'll have to leave our acronym, but then they'll have to, so Stout's name could be , uh, uh , attached to all these other institutions.
Speaker 2So as conceivably, when could we potentially see , uh , the beta, you know , the , the beta version that, you know, to test, if I , I think that's always, I'm always like, Hey, when do I get to like, see it and touch it? And it's things like that when, when conceivably, could it be out that students staff could experience.
Speaker 4So this probably will totally kill the kill the buzz of, of this podcast in September, but it will be probably, I think we're looking at April or may to be build , to have a kind of broad sort of release , uh, where they'll , we'll have by that point , uh, enough content , uh, for people to really , uh , experience and to have some meaningful interactions this fall , uh, I'm going to be working. There's a , there's another student from , uh , the school of art and design as working with one of our art history faculty and doing research on these , uh, these two murals from Cal Cal Peters . Uh, and so we have been using throughout the summers, Harrison knows just kind of dummy content , uh , stand in placeholder content , uh, as we've been building and testing the app. Uh, but Jake, the student from art and design has really done some deeper research. And I'm really eager to , to have a conversation with him and with professor bland , uh, to see what content is there and ready to load in so that we can begin in the fall semester to have some of those, those two Cal Peter's murals , uh , one in Harvey hall and one in the archives and the library have to have those available where visitors to those spaces can , uh , can see and , uh , and demo the app there. So , uh , kind of , uh , kind of a small kind of baby rollout in the fall semester. Uh , but then we hope that kind of big, more public launch , uh, at the end of the spring semester.
Speaker 1All right. Well, thank you so much, Harrison and Mitch for joining us today, it's a joy to talk about the smart app, and I know Pam is excited, but I'm also very excited to try this out later . I hope we get put on the VIP beta list. I don't know if that will be well, that'd be a thing we can make it a thing. Yes. Awesome. Well, I look forward to that, to that invite in the spring. Thank you everyone for listening to insight , stout a podcast devoted to the stories of our students, faculty, staff, and campus community. We want to thank Harrison to Mitch for visiting with us today and talking about augmented reality and a smart art app. That's being developed on our campus, subscribe to us on Spotify and Google podcasts. And don't forget to tune in next time when we share even more stories that go inside stout.