Faithful in Secret: The Ministry No One Sees

What if the most powerful ministry you ever lead is the one nobody applauds?

In this episode, we open Ephesians 2:8–10 and rediscover the foundation of Christian calling: saved by grace, created for good works, prepared in advance by God. Grace is not performance. Calling is not branding. And obedience does not require a platform.

We speak honestly about discouragement — that quiet question, “Is this worth it?” — and why waiting well is not passive but deeply spiritual. Scripture-soaked patience aligns us with God’s timing instead of forcing our own.

This conversation challenges modern church culture. When boards replace discipleship, when titles overshadow servanthood, when ministries copy trends instead of listening for the Shepherd’s voice, something has drifted. If the church looks more like a business model than a body, we must return to Jesus.

We unpack:

• Grace as unearned favour and the true foundation of ministry

• God’s prepared works versus self-driven ambition

• Identity in Christ that silences comparison

• Faith and works in biblical balance (without burnout)

• Quiet obedience over public applause

• Releasing people into their spiritual gifts

• Servant leadership instead of control

• Everyday evangelism through small, faithful acts

• Resisting platform culture and fame-driven Christianity

The image we return to is simple: stay behind Jesus.

If you can see His back, you are following. If you cannot see Him, you have run ahead.

The best fruit often grows in secret.

If you are tired of hype and hungry for holiness, this episode will steady your steps and call you back to simple, faithful discipleship.

Subscribe, share this with someone who needs courage, and leave a review to help others searching for biblical leadership and authentic Christian faith.

If this teaching strengthens you, join us on Patreon for deeper conversations and exclusive content designed to help you walk this out in real life.

Now ask yourself: what “net” is Jesus asking you to drop this week?

Transcript

Welcome And Today’s Focus

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Good morning and welcome. Thank you so much. It is Thursday morning. It is the 8th of June, and it is 10:35 here in our little studio, tucked away in the back end of Swanley. It is hashtag Christian Straight Talk. Yes, we are streaming this morning for this live stream broadcast as we just discussed, as we look at the events that's happening around the world in our lives, and just what the scripture is saying. It's all about the cross of Calvary. Simon is with us this morning. God bless every one of you on the other side of the world. And wherever you are, never give up. There is always a way forward. Never give up, never give in. But we're going to have a look at Ephesians chapter 2, verse 8 through to 10 in just a few moments. But yeah, good morning. Thank you so much for joining us wherever you are this morning. Just keep pressing in. Never give up. God is with you. And we are looking very clearly into the word of God. Simon, good morning.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Yeah, good morning, Ben. It's great to be back across the marks. It's great to be back on live stream as well.

Projects, Patreon And Honest Struggles

SPEAKER_00 1:19

So we're back.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yeah, it's uh exciting stuff. Exciting stuff for hashtag Christian Straight Talk because we've uh we've got two books on the go. We've got a third one. We have uh the cover and the back's already sorted. It's just the content is just uh bit of proofreading. A bit of proofreading. Um and don't forget to catch us on Patreon, Ben, because Patreon, yeah. Yeah, Patreon, because there's some um really exclusive content on there for not a lot of money, Ben. And we do Cup of Coffee. Cap of coffee, a croissant for a fiver, you you can really pick up some. And we do a lot of hard work on that, um Patreon. It's very encouraging, don't we?

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Yeah, there's a lot of work involved in that. And we we do, yeah. We put a lot of time, a lot of effort into that.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

And seriously, I don't know about I've just been speaking to Ben off air really, and uh we're both saying that um at times it this life's a tough old life, in it, you know, and uh Ben, it's it's gosh, is it you feel sometimes is it worth doing what we're doing? Do you know? But like Ben says, you know, we never give up, we never give in, and uh and and uh if you're if you're feeling like us out there this morning, you know, we encourage you really to keep going. Yeah. It might be the same old, same old stuff of life, but just keep going because God's got you. Our Heavenly Father's got you, your breakthrough could be just around the corner, but just keep just keep getting into the word and just uh really just keep keep moving forward. Uh keep on keeping on, really, Ben.

Demoralised Faith And Staying The Course

SPEAKER_00 2:50

I think you're completely right there, Simon. If anybody's in church, in ministry, even in business, you're a Christian in business and workplace, you know, you can feel quite demoralized, can't you, as a believer. You go into the world, you you live your life, you're working, you're moving forward in faith, you're holding on to Christ, and it can be easily uh it can you sorry, you can get easily put in a mindset of being demoralized and and pushed back and and frightened and and worried, this isn't working, God am I where am I supposed to be at this moment in time? But you know what? We never give up. If it's easy, it's not of the Lord. If it's tough and it seems insurmountable and it seems impossible, and you're looking at this stuff and you're thinking, how is this ever gonna come into being? When God gives you a vision and a dream, it will come into being. But you know, I think the hardest thing, Simon, for any believer in ministry in life, is when God gives you a deposit of a gifting, and you know you're carrying the gift, and you get anointed, and then suddenly you wake up and you've got to get back on a commuter train. But you've had a word from God. God has called you to great things, and there is something coming down the track of life, but the outside environment hasn't changed, but you know God has got something for you, and you've got to just you've got to keep going. So it's difficult to live in a in a world that is not for your dream and not for your vision and don't understand what you're calling is. Look at Joseph and his coat.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Well, you've got to be very careful who you speak to about this sort of thing, actually. Because you know, uh that lovely scripture in Isaiah 55 said, My way, my thoughts are not your thoughts, my ways are not your ways, and and so so my time is not your time either. So we've got to be patient, we've got to persevere, we've got to keep going, and uh, you know, if the Lord's called you to it, he'll pull you through. And and that is really important what Ben just said there, because um I I think we've all uh you know, we we think when we've been maybe given a word, being given a prophecy sometimes, or from whatever or whoever, um, we think it's just gonna happen like that, but it don't happen just like that. And and it's the truth if if we've been given a vision, and vision is vital because it says in the Bible, without vision the people perish. So so vision is really important. And we will do a podcast. I think we've already done one on vision, but uh we we will return to that again. But if if your vision is something that you can complete without the Lord, then it ain't no vision, Ben, isn't it?

Vision Versus Skill Set

SPEAKER_00 5:21

No, it's it's it's your it's your skill set. If anything is done with your skill set, yeah, God gives us a skill to a certain degree, but then there comes a point when the skills get skill set gets left behind, and you've got to go by faith, and you go into an area of unfamiliar territory in ministry, in life, in business, if you're not being stretched in your your Christian faith, and you if you go into a comfort zone and you stay there too long, that's devil territory because God, God expects us to walk by faith in every area of life, and this scripture that we got before us today, it's a real important scripture, in it. And you look at that, Ephesians chapter 2, verse 8 and 10.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Yeah, it says it all.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Yeah, let's have a read. Look, so Ephesians chapter 2, verse 8 and 10. And whoever's with us this morning, we want to encourage you today. When it looks impossible, it will be possible. Ephesians 2, chapter uh two, sorry, Ephesians chapter 2, verse 8 through to 10. For it is by grace you have been saved through faith. This uh is not from yourself, this is a gift of God, not by work, so that no one can boast. For we are God's handiwork created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Simon, I've got to look at the back end of that line first, which God prepared in advance for us to do. So that's the key, isn't it? It's been prepared.

Reading Ephesians 2:8–10

SPEAKER_01 6:52

And the deal is it ain't about you. And it's not about you, and it's not about what you're doing for yourself, it's about what you're doing for the kingdom.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

And I think a ki a big key to that in in verse 9, it's uh verse 10, where it says, which God prepared in advance for us to do, do we actually know what we are doing is what God has prepared for us to do? Because if we are it's a very difficult rhetorical question, in it, because we're asking ourselves, what am I doing in life? What am I doing in ministry? What am I doing in church? Is this for God's glory, or am I building the church? Am I building the ministry? Is it about me or is it about Jesus?

Prepared Works And Motives

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Yeah, there's a there's several aspects to that, Ben, really. So, what am I doing this for? Am I doing this to get God's love, to earn God's love? Am I doing this to get God's recognition, God's validation? Am I doing this so God would go well done, my good and faithful servant? Is that what I'm doing this for? Or am I just doing it for the Lord for the kingdom anyway? And so we, you know, we have um a real connection with uh with uh those great guys from the Gideons. Yeah, the Gideons, yeah. And they go out and their names are not in light, so they don't shout their name from the room. You don't see them going, look, another one came to faith and on Facebook. They don't say, Oh, I'll I'll give out another 35 Bibles today. No, you don't hear that. They just get on and do the kingdom work.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

It's done in silence, it's done in silence, you know, and they go out there, they minister on the streets, they they just give the scripture out, they give the tracts out, they they do all that sort of stuff. They're not looking for the notoriety, they're not looking for the fame, the glitz, and the glamour, and and certain ministries and certain churches are trying to put a business acumen, a business plan into this the scripture, and they they're using that. And you can build anything with money, can't you? You can build anything, you can do anything when you've got an open checkbook, when you've got people backing you. But it's really clear in it that you you can't buy the gift of salvation, you can't buy the gift of faith. You've got to go literally completely purseless, because that's what Jesus said. Drop your nets, come and follow me. But Lord, what about no, leave your purse, leave your money, come and follow me.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

He was strong on this, Jesus, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Really strong, really strong. Don't come with me.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

And does that surprise you? No, it doesn't, because Jesus was strong on all these points, and he's for our own good. Look what he said in in um in Matthew 6, too, Ben. He says, This is therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogue in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly I say to you, they have had their reward. But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand's doing. There that your charitable deed may be seen in secret, and your father who sees in secret will himself reward you openly.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

So it's done quietly, it's done under the cloak of night, and no one's watching you.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

But how many people miss miss out on this?

Quiet Service Over Public Applause

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Don't misunderstand what he's saying here. The blessing is not telling the world what you're doing, but to do what God has called you to do quietly and humbly and just get on and do what you've been called to do. And uh it looks like when you look at a massive percentage of ministries, men's ministries, women's ministries, church ministries, all that, it gets and it has to get itself to a charitable status to pull the money in the door to keep the charity running.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

That's a big thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

But if you really are called of God, the Bible says, My God will not let the righteous be beggars of bread. God shall supply all our needs according to thy riches in glory. It's a tough one.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

It's a very dangerous area, that charitable status, Ben, really is.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

You know, you've got to be really careful because the links and the ties that you get caught in. I understand it has to happen in certain areas, but with with Christian ministry, if God has called you to it, God will supply everything for it. For it, yeah. And then the point comes, doesn't it? Looking at the back end of that text, which God has prepared in advance. So it's like going to the Garden of Gethsemane and saying, God, what are you calling me to do? It it can't be my will. It's got to be your will, it's got to be your plan. That's why prayer and supplication and seeking the face of God, you know, the Bible is really clear. Lord, you got plans. Do I know them plans or have I made this up? Because you know, people are in business, you can start, you you you you know we know people that are in business, we know people that are very skilled, that are very um articulate. You you can start anything, you can start anything, but when you start a church, you start a ministry, you've got to make sure that that's of God because you will have blood on your hands if you are doing it for your gain rather than for the kingdom of God.

Money, Charities And Dependence On God

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Yeah, there's a lot, there's a lot in that, a lot in in what you said, Ben, to be honest with you. So, are you doing it for you? If you're doing it for you, then you might kick off with a like it says here, with a fanfare and a trumpet sound, and it might for a while, for a few weeks, a few years, it's gonna fizzle out. It'll fizzle out, and that's an old joke, isn't it? You know, how do you make God laugh? Well, you tell him your plans, yeah, and that's the thing. So and and we've said this uh uh many times on here. You see, if if your course is meant to go over there and you're just half a degree out, you're gonna end up over there, aren't you? So God is saying, What are you doing over there? And we've all done that too.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

We've all done that, and and you do that in ministry, you do that in life, you do that in your relationship, you do that in in every area of life. That's so critical for a believer to pick up verse 8 of what we're looking at, chapter 2. For it is been gr by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not from yourself, this is the only reassurance that we have that we are saved from divine intervention from the heavenly realms, known as the God of Israel, and through the power of the Holy Spirit, that it's by grace you have been saved.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Yeah. Well, just to explain, grace is undeserved favour. So we don't deserve it, we don't deserve uh whatever the Lord gives us. None of us deserve that. We we deserve we deserve we deserve hell fire, to be honest with you. And and you know, um when you get out before the Lord and you're not gonna ask for justice, are you gonna ask for mercy?

SPEAKER_00 13:37

But because of the cross, yeah, because of the cross.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

That should have happened, Lord. That should have happened. Why hasn't that happened? You're gonna ask for mercy because your life, whatever it is, really don't really come up to the standard that it should be. But if if the Lord's called you to do something, what we're not good at is being patient, is it?

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Be still and know that I'm God. Those who wait on the Lord shall renew their strength. It's really important, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 14:07

All these scriptures tying together, the there's a another one in in in Isaiah, which you quote from there. I think that's Isaiah 41. Yeah, there's another one in Isaiah where it says, um, he sharpens us like an arrow, but then keeps us in his quiver. So until such time, we're ready to be fired. We're ready to be fired.

Waiting On God And True Timing

SPEAKER_00 14:25

So it all goes together. All goes together. Waiting means patience. Patience has to fulfill its work. We have to understand that our timing is not God's timing, but we are living in a world that's very mechanical, that's so precisioned on time, uh, statistics, and uh growth. It's always looking for growth, it's always looking to change things. We understand uh situational ethics that the goalpost is always being moved, so nothing stays the same, it's moving so quickly. Same old drum. So everything is changing, but in the kingdom of God it doesn't change. I'm the same yesterday, today, and forevermore. So by the gift of uh grace, we have been saved, not by ourselves, but it is a gift of God. Then we go on to it's not by work so that no one can boast. So it doesn't matter, it's not about the amount of effort and strength, it's not what I do that will get me saved, it's who I know that has got me saved. So if you are out there at this moment in time and you are in ministry and you're in business and you are that Christian and you're looking into Christianity or whatever, you know, now is a time is to really focus on God and to really call on his name and to to immerse yourself in the word of God. And and what's the purpose of that? I hear you saying, what's the purpose of that? To find your identity as a man or a woman in Christ. Because when you know who you are, you know where your destiny is.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

And another big thing with all this, Ben, which is you know, not by works, don't so we've God gives us all our own lane, right? Yes, yeah, we're in our own lane, and and but what we're tempted to do is look at at him over there. Oh, I'll copy. I'll copy that ministry. Oh, she's been blessed more than me. Well, maybe uh why's that? You know, and and the Lord says, keep your hand to the plough, didn't he?

SPEAKER_00 16:21

He says, Don't look back, don't look back. So it's I identifying who you are in Christ. Yes, it's about Lord, what are you calling me to? Are you calling me to be a Christian in the business world? Are you calling me to be a minister? Are you calling me to be an evangelist? Are you calling me to be the preacher or the teacher? Lord, are you calling me, Lord, just to walk with you? What is the purpose? What identity? But that word identity has been taken and has been thrown across the the platform of life, and you can be whoever you want to be. And the the church has replicated that. And what I found over the years, people have come to me with this manual, follow this church in America, follow that church, this is happening, that's happening. And what happens is when you try to follow everyone, you don't follow Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

And so you get into that situation uh that that it's like bingo, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

It's you're trying to you're trying to find the button.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

You're plucking, aren't you?

Grace, Identity And Your Lane

SPEAKER_00 17:18

You know, you're pulling at things all day long. A ministry from America, a ministry from from Israel, a ministry over there will copy this, and suddenly you've got a manual. Someone has uh many times well, not someone, many people have bought me ministers' manuals. This ministry from America, follow this and all be okay. There's been treasure hunting, there's been grave soaking, there's all that crazy stuff, and I've learned the hard way and gone. Do you know what now? I ain't following no man's manual. I've got to find out who I am and what God wants me to do.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Well, James is really clear on this stuff, Ben, isn't he? Yeah, and it's uh uh you're well said there, Ben, because James is very clear, and it's a tough book, James, but it's a great book. He says, uh faith without works is dead. It's dead. And also works without faith is dead. So the two have to come together, don't they? So you could be working all day long. All day long. And you could be putting hours and hours and hours neglecting your family, but if there's no faith in it, then it's worthless. It's empty. And the same is you may have um you may have some good faith, but like he says, you know, you see a brother who who's in need and go, oh bless you, brother, and walk and walk off. Walk off and walk off. It's no good either, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 18:35

It's no good. It's it's really difficult now. If you're in ministry, if you are a Christian, you're in a workplace, you know, the the the workplace is a very brutal environment. The world is a brutal environment, but if you're going into work as a Christian and you're almost being bombarded with world uh situations, and you've got to you've got to live and you've got to continue to believe and to walk by grace and and to trust God that God is gonna supply all your needs according to thy riches and glory. Um but the church has taken on a business model. When you look at so many ministries, it's got a business model, it's got a forecast, it's got a plan, it's got a directorship, it's got all this, but it hasn't got no discipleship. This is a big area where we are seeing failure in the church. The church has got uh directors, but it hasn't got disciples. So what we are finding is in ministries, we've got trustees, we've got a board of directors, but we haven't got disciples, we haven't got the five-fold ministries. That's that's the important, whether I'm a prophet, whether you're a preacher or a teacher, the five-fold ministries is important. If you've got a boardroom table that is taking more preference over than the scripture, that there's an issue.

Manuals, Trends And Following Jesus

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Yeah, I think it's been a big issue through uh too many years. Yeah, I mean, a lot of these churches were built up, um, a lot of these ministries were built up, and they took a real hit through through COVID, didn't they? They took a real hit through the pandemic, so they've either gone to the wall or they're they're trying to claw back. So but they've got to be very careful because is it of the Lord or is it of man and my and my uh board of directors?

SPEAKER_00 20:16

My board of directors rather than got 12 board of directors rather than not having 12 disciples. It's a real thin line. We know what it's like to to run and to do things. We need money, not that we need money to get the car and to get the to get all that material. We we know what it's like and we understand the pain and the agony of wondering, Lord, how am I gonna pay the gas? How am I gonna pay the electric? Lord, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? Lord, help me, please. We're not we're not we're not meeting what we need to meet, but there comes a point when you have to be a good steward of the money that God has given you for the kingdom of God, and you're not building ivory towers. How many ministries have built towers and what we're seeing in the last days? We're seeing the great falling away of the church, of ministries and all that. So it's about finding your identity to know that you are saved, that you are the John 3 3 believer. But what is God calling me to be? Is he calling me just to follow him? Because many people are called just to follow Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Do you know what, Ben? I think that is our destiny, and we uh first and foremost. Our destiny is to follow Jesus. So when people go, I know I hear this a lot from younger, um younger men uh who I speak to, they go, I want to know, you know, I've I've heard Jeremiah 29, 11, I want to know the plans that God's got, but I want to know what He's got for me. Well your destiny is just to follow Jesus. Follow me. And and sit then, you know, see where Jesus leads you. Because yeah, if you're following Jesus, if you've got your hands on the plough, if if you've got your if you're you know focused on the author and perfecter, then he'll open doors. That's and you'll start to lead an exciting Christian.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Life. That's why that's why I was at the shoreline of Galilee when he called the disciples, he said, Drop your nets, come and follow me.

Faith And Works In Balance

SPEAKER_01 22:11

Paul has got this. He knows he's good old Paul. He's aware of this, you know. Uh and he says, you know, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began. So before time began.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Before the foundation of the world.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

But not by our works.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

No.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

You know, you don't get God's attention by building a church. Being a martyr, do you?

SPEAKER_00 22:42

No, you no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

You get God's attention by your heart and being obedient and saying, Lord, this is my heart. Use me. I'm available. Because he doesn't want our abilities, because he knows what our abilities are.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

He doesn't need our abilities. Because he says, I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not provide.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Thanks, Ben.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Thanks. Goodness, we got you there, Ben. You know.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

I wouldn't be able to do this without you. So it's all about finding identity, and we don't know who we are until we do something that's really powerful that the disciples learnt to do at the shoreline of Galilee. Drop your nets. Them nets were their representation of their business, their family, their life, their livelihood, their masculinity, their independence. Dropping your nets at that shoreline was leaving everything you got. And Jesus said, Come and follow me. When you follow Jesus, Jesus Christ will take you on a journey where money is not needed. Notoriety doesn't matter. Because what you're following, you're under the shadow of the Most High. And he will take you to the promised land.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Yeah, because if your name's in lights, where's Jesus?

Boards Without Discipleship

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Oh no, I ain't got time for Jesus. I'm building my ministry, I'm building the church, I'm building blocks.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

I'm mate. You know, how many times do we hear someone's testimony? It's all about them.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

Yeah, it's all about me, Lord. Lord, uh I've done this, I've done that. You know, it's really, I think we're living in critical times within the UK, within the West. I think we're living in powerful times as well. And you can see that ministries are are got so many plates spinning and churches. How are we going to pay the gas? How are we going to do this? We've got wages to find, we've got mortgages to meet, we've got this bill, we've got that bill, we've got water rates, we've got this, we've got fuel, we've got blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That the question is, is we've got to strip back. I believe Christ is requiring us to strip back everything in church, in home, in life, in business, and say, I've got to leave my nets at the shoreline of Galilee, because I've got to make sure that in these last days in which I live, I'm under the shelter of the most high. I've got to make sure that I'm under the shadow of the wing. If I come out of the wing, if I come out of the shadow and I come away from this uh this umbrella of Christ, I'm like the prodigal son. I want all my blessings, I want to go and spend it all, and I'm ahead of Jesus. That's the thing, you can't run ahead of him. You can't run ahead. But the patience, that the endurance to sit in the closet when no one knows you.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

And it's difficult for you, isn't it? Because you've you've uh you're like the jurisdiction bunny, ain't you?

SPEAKER_00 25:24

I'm just bouncing all over the place.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Especially now, you don't drink coffee so much these days, but no, I've cut that on the I've knocked that out.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

I'm on ten red balls, fifty fags, but I've cut the coffee out, four cigars and uh going on the smell of marijuana around what part of town I'm on. But but it's true, Ben, you've got uh you've just you you can't run before the Lord. No, this is the key. Wait, wait patiently on the Lord.

Titles, Control And Servanthood

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Yeah. Waiting is the most horrible, the quietest, but almost repressing because nothing's happening. The scripture said those who wait on the Lord will renew their strength, they'll rise on wings like eagles, run and not get weary, walk and not get faint, but so so it the scripture tells us.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Wait, but what does it mean actually to wait on the Lord? Does it mean to just live my life and wait for Jesus to go, is your time? What it means is to wait, is to, as it says in the book of Joshua, never let this book of the Lord depart from your mouth. So when you're waiting, you're in prayer and supplication, and you're reading the scripture and you're seeking God. Because as you seek him, as you're waiting, he's revealing to you through the living word what the next step is. It's not to it's a good point.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

It's not to sit back in the lazy board chair with a big bag of chips and and and and uh and a couple of ice cold beers and uh watching the TV thing and waiting for waiting on the Lord. And your missus goes, Um, can you put the rubbish up?

SPEAKER_00 27:06

No, so many people, I know so many people that have frustrated me over my life, that have literally given up their work, put pressure on their family, sat in the lazy boy chair. I've seen this a lot with men from certain cultures and certain areas of church, and said the Lord has called me to this and they've sacrificed everything, they've broken everything, that the that their family is torn apart because they think that they've heard from the Lord and they're sitting doing nothing.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

Or someone's given them a prophecy.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Someone's given the Lord has told me, brother, sister, this is gonna happen. Well, actually, if God wants me to do it, I want to hear from Him. That is the most important thing, you know. Very clear. Gideon was a clear understanding. He said, I am the least in my clan and my family. If this is really of you, I'm gonna ask you, God, the fleece. Dry. Dry Jew. It's really, really important to understand that not that we are testing God, but we are making sure that I am hearing right.

Stay Behind Jesus, Not Ahead

SPEAKER_01 28:17

You've it's this is it's a real uh tricky one, but it's something that we all have got to be aware of. And it's w in it's even you know, when the Lord calls us to do something, we've got to be very careful how we do it. We could because if if we're if if we're not doing it in love, if we're not doing it in and you know, we've got fantastic key. We had uh we had a big discussion uh earlier about you know, ministries really don't encourage too many other ministries, do they? So it has to be done in love. And Paul says, doesn't he at the beginning of of uh 1 Corinthians 13 he says, though I speak with the tongues of men and angels, but have not love, I have become a sounding brass or clanging symbol. And although I have the gift of prophecy and understand all mysteries of knowledge, and through I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. So so it's pretty much you ought to be so careful in everything you do, do it in love.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

In that and the Bible says also, blessed are the peacemakers. You know, when you talk about unity, when you look at the the things that are happening and going on around in ministry and all that, it's almost like certain ministries ring fence themselves and suddenly that that they won't let no one in because the reason they won't let certain people of certain characters in because the leadership are frightened that someone will come in that has a greater gift than their gift, and they are trying to make sure that I'm the one at the top of the Christmas tree.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Yeah, well, I'm afraid it's the same in a lot of churches, and there'll be people out here listening to this who have who have not been encouraged in in what the Lord has given them, they're gifting, if you like, or uh or their calling, they've not been encouraged because of certain people, certain leadership. I've you know, I used to deal with an awful lot of uh leadership um across across ministries, across churches, and it strangles the life out of people if you're not careful.

Hired Hands Versus Shepherds

SPEAKER_00 30:27

You know, do you know what the the hallmark, the great hallmark and the great God-given gift to anyone that is in leadership, pastors, leader, bishop, whoever you are, the greatest way that you see that they are a leader when someone comes to them and says, I believe God is calling me to this, that leader will straight away and go, Do you know what we're gonna support you? Let's pray through it, let's look at it, let's let's start moving, let's see what God is doing through you. But many, many places you could go to the ministers and the church leadership team, and and you say, God has given me this, and they will block it out and they will they will push it out because there is a very bad human trait of control, manipulation and control. And you see it coming over pulpits, you're seeing it in ministries, there is always the CEO. Why do we call why why are ministries got CEOs? What is the purpose of titles in ministry? Business has titles, the kingdom of God, we are slaves to righteousness, we are servants. So why isn't it rather than seeing that the top of this this person at the top of this ministry is a slave to righteousness? No, I've got to have a title of the CEO. I am the director, I am the second in command, I am this, I am that. We are looking for labels when the label that we have is you are a servant. When you look at Jesus, he didn't put on when he was on the cross of Calvary, the CEO of Christianity, they said the king of the Jews. We have got ourselves in ministry. This is a real difficult conversation because we will probably get whipped and kicked down the line. Why do we want to be known as a CEO? That's the business terminology. I want to be known as a disciple, I want to be known as a follower of God. I want to be known as a believer, a Bible-believing believer. The real title over us is that you are a son or you are a daughter.

Everyday Evangelism Through Kindness

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Well, the uh the deal is, Ben, that you if you are if you understand that you're a citizen of the kingdom, then this kingdom is an upside down kingdom. So, you know, he who's first will be last, and last who would be first. And Jesus says it all the way through, doesn't he? You know, you know, don't sit at the top of the table, you know, take take your seat further down. And and and it's it's humility, it's being humbling yourself, yeah, and and entertaining uh everyone and not looking down on people, not having a foot in the world, you know. Jesus said quite clearly, He said, He said, Let your light shine before men so that then your heavenly father will get the glory. So it's not that you get the glory, it's that your heavenly father gets the glory.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

What's gonna happen when when God calls us home as ministers? Is he gonna go well done, good and faithful CEO? Is he gonna go, well done, good and faithful trustee? Well he's gonna go, Well done, good and faithful servant.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

Well, here's the deal with that one, Ben, because in the beginning, innit? Matthew 7 21 to 2 it comes. Everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven. But he who does the will of my father in heaven, many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons in your name, and done many wonders in your name, and led businesses in your name, you know, being CEOs in your name, and then I shall declare to them, I never knew you. Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Wow. So it's about following Jesus, the first and the same calling that we all have over our lives, because in the book of Ephesians it says, We are God's handiwork created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance. So the the key to any ministry, any life, anything in this world is what Jesus said at the shoreline of Galilee, follow me, stay under the umbrella, stay under the wings in of the of the most high. Trust him, don't look out to the left or right, just keep making sure if if Christ is back, if you're looking at Christ back, you're in a good position.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

If you turn around and you see Christ front, you've gone ahead. You want to see you want to see the back of Christ, you want to you want to be the follower. Yeah, you want to see the following. Jesus made it clear in it, he said, You can't go ahead of me.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

And that's really worse, in it, Ben, if you're uh if you turn around and can't see Jesus.

Fame Culture And The Call To Follow

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Yeah, and you're galloping. Now I've done that more times than I can count. I've wasted more money, more effort, more stress, more strain than I should have just followed. Be a follower.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

Good ideas, like they say, aren't always God's ideas, like they say. And and that, you know, and we sit down and we talk to people in the world and and and uh people in ministry and whatever, and they say and you think, oh that's a good idea, didn't it? I think you know, and then you run out and you put a few quid into it and and uh and it's not a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

I I think we we what we're saying, we see this a lot in the word of evangelism. We've got to be very careful because not everybody's an evangelist, not everybody's a preacher and teacher, not everybody's called to be pastors and and leaders. And what we have, uh for please forgive me, but I I think we understand what we're talking about this morning. We have many hired hands rather than shepherds. Where are the shepherds of the flocks? Because when you look at a shepherd and you look at a hired hand, a hired hand replicates what a shepherd does, but it's only nine to five. But uh he's not interested in the sheep.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

I think I think the deal is that we are all called to be evangelists, but but not not in the westernized way, not in not in the name in lights way, in in the in the Matthew 5.16 way that's the key following Jesus, letting that light shine. This is where we advance the king. Because at the end of the day, that's what Jesus wants us to do.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Because when you follow, you become the greatest document anyone will ever read. When you follow Jesus, when you when you keep down, when you when Christ is is before you and you're just walking through life, Lord, I'm following you. Suddenly you become evangelist without even knowing it. You become a preacher, you become a teacher, because people are watching and they are looking at you. Yes, we all sinned, yes, we all foul, yes, we all make mistakes, yes, we all fall off the peg, but we get back up and we get on it.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

Well, your life, if you're listening to this out there, your life is the fifth gospel, innit?

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

So, you know, many people will not even pick up a Bible or read maybe a word, but they'll look at your life.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

Their eyes are on you.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

Yeah, their eyes are on you. And so if you're following Jesus, then their eyes are on Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

Exactly. Yeah, because you're an ambassador. That's the key.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

And and what is really freeing, and there's freedom in this, is that you're not the Alpha and the Amiga, you're just you just are called to do what the what the Lord has called you to do at that moment in time.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

Thank you, Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 37:59

And it it you know, it it might simply be ask that person how they are over there and tell them that it's a god that loves you.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Yeah, one of your work colleagues at work. How are you today?

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Simple as that.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Are you okay? Can I make you a cup of tea? Do you want to fancy a coffee today?

SPEAKER_01 38:18

But it might be a few.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

Do you want to share a sandwich? It's it's the simple things, the most are the most powerful things. Love and kindness, and I'll use the word human kindness, you know, help one another. You know, the Bible says treat one another as you ex would expect to be treated yourself. You know, it you know, this is an enormous conversation, and we're right in the skin of this. We're right, we've pushed right over into this, and it's probably something that we'll have to continue that, you know, because it's just it's just escalating, it's just accelerating. And that's what God is God is saying.

Closing Exhortation To Follow Jesus

SPEAKER_01 38:54

And yeah, as we come into land, Ben, the thing is in this world that we have now of uh everyone wants to be famous, everyone wants the notoriety, everybody wants likes on Facebook, everybody wants uh uh downloads, everybody wants uh looking at at stuff, even my eight-year-old granddaughter, she jumped on her dad's YouTube channel, she got two and a half thousand views on something. It's meaningless, it's crazy, but everybody wants it. So we've got to be so careful as as Christians in this world that we don't fall into this trap. If the Lord wants to use that, then he'll use it. But but we just follow, follow, follow, follow, be followed.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Be a follower, be a follower of Jesus. That's the key, Simon, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 39:42

That's all we can ask, innit, Ben, to be honest. Brothers and all that Jesus wants you to do.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

As Simon has just said that, and we're we're out of here. All we can do, but when we say all what we can do, that is the greatest thing that you can do. That's an that's another way you've got to unpack that, isn't it? Oh, without a show.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

The greatest thing. It's the hardest thing to follow Jesus, but the greatest thing to follow Jesus. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

We're out of here. We're out of here. We're done. It's 11 15. It is Thursday, the 8th of June. Wherever you are, we thank you for following us. Hashtag Christian Straight Talk. We just try and bring everything just straight out the barrel of truth. You know, we're all sinners saved by grace. We're all blessed and highly favored. You know, be a follower of Jesus Christ and have a wonderful day, but never give up in your life. Be hopeful. Don't follow the church, don't follow religion, follow Jesus Christ because He is the way, the truth, and the life. God bless. Have a great day. See you soon. Take care.