Adultery and the Heart From Desire to Devotion: Why the Battle Begins Within ( Part 1 )

This episode is Part 1 of a two-part conversation exploring the Seventh Commandment: “You shall not commit adultery.”

The Ten Commandments do not simply regulate behaviour. They expose the deeper condition of the human heart.

In this episode of Christian Straight Talk, we begin examining how adultery starts long before any outward action. Jesus’ teaching in Matthew chapter five makes it clear that the real battleground is not just behaviour but desire, imagination, and intention.

A glance can become a thought.

A thought can become desire.

And desire, left unchecked, slowly shapes the direction of a life.

We explore how modern culture intensifies this struggle. Advertising, entertainment, and online media often use sexuality as a powerful tool to sell products, identity, and attention. When desire becomes central, love is reduced to appetite and people become objects rather than neighbours.

But Scripture also warns about something deeper: spiritual adultery.

The letter of James warns that friendship with the world pulls the heart away from God. The apostle John describes the forces behind this drift as the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life.

These temptations appear in obvious places such as pornography and consumer culture, but they can also hide in unexpected spaces—personal ambition, ministry platforms, and the pursuit of recognition. When applause becomes the goal, service can quietly become self-centred.

Throughout this conversation we return to a simple but challenging truth: what we repeatedly practise eventually forms the heart.

We also explore how modern media, gaming environments, and constant digital stimulation can shape imagination and desire. The issue is not panic but formation. The habits we feed eventually shape who we become.

The way forward is not shame or denial. It is honesty, confession, humility, and returning to Christ. Jesus’ call to remove whatever leads us into sin is not harsh—it is mercy.

Healthy boundaries, spiritual disciplines, and honest community help guard the heart and protect what matters most.

At the centre of everything stands the cross. The cross exposes our broken desires but also offers forgiveness, restoration, and a new direction for the human heart.

T

Transcript

Setting The Stage: Ten Commandments

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Good morning, everybody. Everyone that is on Twitter with us this morning, wherever you are across the earth, may God bless you and strengthen you. We thank you so much for joining us today as we gather around these mics for hashtag Christian Straight Talk. We're going in, we're going to go a little bit deep today. We're going to be sailing very close to the wind today. I think it's a word that everyone in the Christian world loves to swerve. Simon, good morning.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Good morning. Yeah, we're serious. Back in the Ten Commandments. We're back to the back. We're back. Last week was uh last week was just incredible, Ben. We was you know talking about you know murder and and how that where that took us, and we're finding that every single one of these every one of these commandments is the biggest challenge of my life. It's massive, and and what we realised is that what we and realised what we knew, but didn't really, I don't think, grasp that that you break one, you break them all, don't you?

Anger As Heart-Level Murder

SPEAKER_00 1:20

You break one, you've broken everything, and that's so clear. And um that word last week, the word murder, that you know, I I took myself away from that thought. I never even thought about it. Of course I haven't physically, you know, and you've got all that stuff that goes along with it, but but from the scripture alone, just backtracking a moment, thinking even your anger and your frustration and your and the the anger to your brother or your sister or your friend or whoever it is is as bad as doing the physical act because it's it's done in your heart.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

I don't think we we give um last week, I don't think we give anger enough um airtime, Ben, and and it's something we will probably we will return to because um I meet I meet several people on a you know on a regular basis that that struggle with with anger.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

And that that can be with us all our life, can't it? I know people with serious anger issues, believers in church, serious attitude problem, angry, really angry, really angry.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

And a lot of that anger comes is deferred. So I was talking to uh uh someone this week and uh they had a real problem with their father, and um yeah you know the father would say something to them and they'd go out and bash someone up. Yeah, because you know uh they they would need they wanted to take it out on something. So you're taking out the physical, you've gone out of the house, you've got deferred anger, yeah. It's deferred anger. And and you know, a lot of people in prison, uh I've done a bit of work in prison, so a lot of people in prison are in prison because of deferred anger. So they have a row with a wife, they have a row with a the girlfriend, they've a row with a partner, don't want to bash them up, but go out already like a volcano almost at the top, and someone's only got to look at them the wrong way.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Um you just don't realise, do you? So everything is committed in the heart, everything is committed in the heart, in the mind. See, in the world of Christianity, we're talking about murder, we're gonna go into adultery in a minute, and then we've got stealing after that. Adultery. That I said the word. You're in the confessional today, mate, aren't you? Father forgive me for our sinned and falling short of thy glory. But when you but everything I'm finding in the Christian world, to everything we do and say, everything is to do with your heart condition. It's all about the heart. It's you know and then it takes you to a dangerous place to your mind. When your mind is in that position, you've done it, you've acted it, you've said it, even even with words, when you talk to people how you address people, when you when I'm being highlighted to another word, uh opinions. I've I don't know if this is my problem, I've got a problem. Am I an opinionated person? Am I a judgmental person? Am I an angry person? So I'm doing a lot of deep looking, I'm doing a lot of deep diving in my heart.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

The thing is, Ben it it's a heart thing, and also with with with this stuff, there's ego, there's pride, there's all of that stuff comes in. So all of a sudden, you know, someone's got a different opinion to you. Um and and the old pride man. The old chest blows out, the old pride man steps out and goes, yeah, blah blah blah blah blah sort of accepting that and just sort of moving on from it. And we have to front it out, don't we? Especially as as men, we want to front it out and we want to uh because we want to be the one on top, but it's what what's that been?

SPEAKER_00 5:02

It's meaningless, innit? It's nonsense. So you're talking about an alpha mal, I can't let anyone see me back down. So anger could run through a lot of Christian men. Uh totally.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

And not even admitting it.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Anger and pride now, pride is a very dangerous um weapon, isn't it? You know, I'm I'm a prideful so pride and anger. So there's so much to be said in these Ten Commandments.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Well, what we discovered and what we are discovering, Ben, as you quite rightly said, it is a heart issue. So what we're discovering is that that anger is a symptom, but there's a root in there. And so so there'd be a we're going on to adultery very so you know this morning. And there'd be a root of a somewhere in there that causes that uh adultery to come out. So so if you just deal with the symptom, then you're never gonna get rid of it, it's always gonna come back. It's so pride is a real deep root root, yeah, that that need is needs to be brought. And the only place you can bring that out, Ben, is with through the Holy Spirit. So the Holy Spirit convicts us, and you were right, Ben, last week in saying that everything comes back to the cross. We've got to come back to the cross. It's the most mate, it's just a place where you come back to and just say, Lord, what is it? What's going on in in me? What is this? And I want to give you and when you come back, just give it over to the cross.

Roots Of Anger: Pride And Ego

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Because yeah, you're talking about uh the heart and the mind and the thinking uh murder, stealing, adultery, you know, even what we went about on about your mum and dad and all that sort of stuff. And when you really come to the cross, and I mean really come to the cross, when you look within, I'm I'm talking about myself, so when I look within myself, I think to myself, God, I don't like what I see some days. I don't like my thinking, I don't like my attitude.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Well, the the thing is, Ben, when you know, uh when you get closer to Jesus, get closer to God, then you realise just how far away from him you are.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

The more you want him, the more you're you're looking for this holy walk, the more you're looking to be to go for endurance, even when the great writer wrote very clearly, we even despised of life itself, and you think this is Paul. Paul wrote so much powerful stuff, and then he's writing that we despised of life itself. What did that man go through? Whippings, shipwrecks, beatings. He worked, he he knew what it was to have everything, to have nothing, to be imprisoned. So that man experienced everything. So I'm actually looking at the church in the UK very quietly and thinking to myself, this just doesn't fit with scripture. A massive percentage of all this stuff that we do on a Sunday morning doesn't fit with Scripture. So when you come to the Ten Commandments It's window dressing, Ben, that's what it is, mate. It's Christmas like all day, in it. Every Sunday can be a Christmas experience. The trees out, the laughter's there.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

Santa Claus is there, giving him the donuts and the pastries in there.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

And the clauses behind the pulpit, you know, he's got the elves in the corner on the guitars and all the instruments.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

It's the truth, it's the truth, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 8:19

And then suddenly you get drawn to a scriptures, scriptures like the Ten Commandments, and then your mind goes to church and think, when was the last time I heard a message on you are an adulterer, you are an adulterous generation? The word today is a strong, powerful word that makes you want to crawl under the table. You murderers, you lustful pride. When was the last time? Honestly, I'm talking to me and Simon and everybody under this voice. When was the last time we actually heard a sermon that brought us under serious conviction?

SPEAKER_01 8:55

But we're not in the age, Ben. We're not in the age of convicted sermons. Oh, we were in the age of ofh, it's alright. It's okay, no problem. It's our problem. And and sin, we don't want to call it that. We'll just say lifestyle choice. It's a struggle, you know.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

I've chosen, I've got free will, I've got choice. But Jesus loves you, you know. Forgiveness at the cross.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Don't worry, just Jesus loves.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

That's the fact, isn't it? There is forgiveness at the cross. That's that's one thing. And Jesus does love you. And he does love you.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

But it's but he don't l love you if you keep practicing.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

Yeah, yeah.

Adultery Begins In The Heart

SPEAKER_01 9:28

See, God don't wink at sin, Ben, does he? So So we've got all this, and and we're coming on to adultery, right? And what does Jesus say about adultery? You know, he goes last week he said murder begins in the heart. Yeah. He goes on to adultery, and he goes, You have heard it in Matthew. This is Matthew 5. Matthew 5. To those of old, you shall not commit adultery. That's fine. We'll leave it there, shall we? Leave it there, thank you, Jesus. But he goes on to say he goes on to say No. But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So, so it's that second look in it, it's that little look over your shoulder, it's that little you know, look around the corner.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

When does lust become lust? Because right, let's hold this thought a minute. What's the difference between lust and love? Because the world and pride is saying that it's huge, it's a massive difference. This it's a switch around. So there are a lot of people confused in so many different areas of life between I love that person, but is it really love or is it lust? It's a big thing, Ben. It's a huge thing. So you've got to understand what the difference is. So understanding the difference is all in the heart, Ben. And it's all in the heart. So when you look at someone lustfully, are you looking at them with your eyes or you're looking with your heart? How can you tell the difference?

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Lustful, lustful is sexual intent, and that's all you want from that person is sexual satisfaction gratification, if you want.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

So, right, so if we take the TV at this moment in time, almost every program we turn on, or every advert on the social media, in loads of areas of life, we everything is be has been for so long sexualized. So every one of us will wake up in the morning, put the TV on, put the radio on, go to work, jump on the commute, do a school run. Wherever we go, everybody's eyes are on some form of sexualization. Even last night, really late last night, I I I said to Chris, look at that on the telly. Just just just I can't even remember when actually when it when it was, but I for just for some unknown reason the telly was on and something I walked in and there was a it was the man advertising the sh the sh shaving. He was so fit. And I'm not gay, I'm not saying all that. What I'm saying is he was a fit man. Why couldn't they use why was that advert? It was about shaving foam and it was about a razor, but they had to show him from his toe up to his midriff, his chest, then his head. He had all the bells and whistles. Because sex sells, Ben, that's what it exactly.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

And so it was a shaving advert. You you it's coming at you from all angles, and you are right. I mean, you've only got to go on spend a bit of time on on YouTube, and stuff will come in there. Stuff will come in there uh to distract you, you know, uh pretty women, you know, fit blokes, all that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

So you've got a pretty woman advertising, whatever, you've got a man advertising, whatever. And when you look at what they're advertising, even the holidays, when they advertise a holiday, they've got the perfect family. All of them are ripped and chiseled, everything, all the bells and whistles are happening on the families, the kids are laughing, they're jumping in the pool together.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

I made this comment to to my wife as we were walking round uh a shopping centre, Blue Water, who's close by, and uh Temple of Monsonic. Sunday morning church for the majority of people. Yeah. Um and I said, you know, they've come out, they come out in the media, they come out in certain factions against the sexualization of women. Yeah. But Blue Water is signs must be 20, 30 foot high of women in sat stockings, suspenders, and fiddly clad It's in your face as soon as you can.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

But what we have to walk in. Yeah, is a generation, you have a gener what it's very clever how the enemy works. So with adultery, with sin, with everything that goes on, it becomes a normal way of life. Because it's advertised, we think it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

But it's very dangerous, Ben. It's absolutely dangerous because you get desensitised. You totally get desensitised because where it's everywhere. Where does it lead a lot of men to? I mean, we're talking about men, but it's also we're talking about women as well. But uh where does it lead a lot of men to? It leads a lot of men to pornography, which is so easy to get these days. You know, you but back in the day, I as a young man, I remember having to wait in wait in the news agents till no one was around and quickly quickly asked for a book off a top shelf. Now you've got it's on your phone, it's on your tablet, it's where wherever. It's so easy to get hold of, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 14:42

So with the church email account, right? Obviously, everything is linked somewhere, and so often you get emails come through and you click it, and before you know it, you've opened up this image that is a full graphic image, right? It's not because I've been looking at it, let's clean that up. You've got all these threads, haven't you? Sorry Lord, I've seen five things. But what I mean is it's everywhere. So as soon as you so you're talking about you can find it intentionally within seconds, and even you can be innocent sitting at your desk, you've got all these emails coming through, you you're clicking because of your social the social media feeds because of the way things work and all that sort of stuff, and suddenly in your face is an image that is really the most vile, everything is happening. There, there is no holes barred anymore. And you've got to be very careful. So you've looked at that. So I've looked at it, I've seen it, I've seen the most unreal thing happening. How does that affect me? Um a kettle, it took 15 minutes for the kettle to boil.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

Well, the thing is that how does that affect you, Ben? So you've got so so as a as a Christian man, as a leader of a church, you've got to well, just as a Christian man, not particularly leader, you've got to you've got to offer that image up straight up. You've got to get it out to be. But it's fixated. So it's your mind is a photograph. Because bang, it'll hang on a minute. You've got to say, Lord, take that, take that image out away from me. Take that image away from me right now. Give me give me uh give me a love for my wife. You know, if you're if you're married, give me a love and and a and a sexual desire for my wife. Don't take these pictures aw away from me right now, because otherwise they they will stay in there and they will see her.

Lust Versus Love In A Sexualised Culture

SPEAKER_00 16:36

So you go to Blue Water, you got posters, you turn the telly on with your children, you put Disney on, you put all the stuff on, and and at an early age, you are programmed to think that people that are scantily clad in clothing, it's the normal. You flip telly on, you sit down with the kids, you watch a film, you do this, you do that, you go to the pictures, you go to the cinema. So wherever you go, everybody on this earth will find that they are put they have been put into a position of their eyes. Oh, this is a tough talk. Your eyes are focused on some form of a man having a shave when you can see everything, his pants are so tight, you know what I mean? What and then you go to a holiday advert and the family are absolutely perfect, buying a car.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

I guess it's it's what type of mind you've got in it. Yeah, but right. So this is the question if you if you just look at it innocently, there's a family having a or a guy having a shave. But if you've got that that mind where where you know you you are a hot blooded.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Yeah, but I've got the mind of I'm always questioning things, I'm always looking at things, and my mind goes further than the it I actually think there's something wrong sometimes in my head because I overanalyse, I overlook, I look deeper, I go and I dissect stuff and I take things apart.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

I don't just If we're not careful, we have to we have to stop these thoughts at the gate. We really do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because otherwise what they do, they take your eyes off you if you're married, they take their eyes off your partner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I put them onto something that's that looks because let's be honest. I I did a um I did a talk once on on um on pornography or whatever, and I got these I got um images of facial images of uh women porn stars, right? And then I got them without makeup. And when you looked at them without any makeup on, they would you would walk back you would walk past them in the street. Okay. So so they're photoshopped, they're made to look made up, they're made to look so desiring. So if you're not if you're not careful and you're not aware, and you're not aware what a barber says, you're not aware of what Jesus says about being lustful in your heart, this will take you down a route where there's where there's no coming back. Of course. Of course. Because you will not then you will then not look at your wife in in in the same way, because she's not like the Photoshop girl that you've been looking at and that's not real. And it's not real.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

So we're living in a world that that sexualizes everything, and it's actually not real. So when you look at the the book of James, chapter one, verse 14, it says, now this is quite a this this digs deep in my heart, this really kicks quite tight, and it says, but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desires and enticed. When you when you look at and when you tie that to that scripture that you got up there, and Christ is going, You adulterous generation. When you talk to a generation, you're not talking about a certain age bracket, you're talking to the entire audience within that area.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Well, he didn't actually say that in this one, in this uh in this scripture, because he's just he's talking to the individual in the in this scripture. Yeah, but then as as uh as we go on to the individual, uh you know so when is it lustful, Ben?

SPEAKER_00 20:22

So yeah, so look at that, James. James chapter one, verse fourteen. Yeah. He says, but each person is tempted when he is dragged away. Dragged away? So each person could be dragged away in their thinking, in their mind, it's an attitude.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

It's not e it's not even if you're if you're walking down the street, you can be in a supermarket like I was this morning uh in in Swanly Asda. It's not you know it's it is what it is, isn't it, you know? Yeah. Um but there could be a a a pretty woman and your eyes are drawn to her, and so next thing you know, as she walks by, there might be a little smile, you smile back, you're done, ain't ya? You're done. Yeah, if that's how your brain is t ticking. If you if you went, Lord, what a beautiful woman. Thank you so much for for her beauty.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

And then Jesus is going, I know you aren't son. Because your lips ain't saying what you mean.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

So she walks by, you know, you turn round and you have a little look at a bum as she goes by and you think, God out, where's this going? Do you know do you know what I'm saying? So that is that's a lust, innit? So looking at her with lust, you commit adultery. You're done.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

So without any physical not even not even knowing a person you are you are banged to rights. Because it says there, each person is tempted. It doesn't say a man or a woman, it says each person. So there comes a point in someone's life from birth to death where these scriptures might. Might not now, people might be in a marriage, they're clean, they're tidy, they're sweet, everything. But there comes a point in someone's heart where if you are a believer, every scripture that has been written will certainly apply to you sometime in your life. Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

And and look, what happens is Ben, you know, as you get, you know, it doesn't matter what age you are, but a little bit of flattery. A little bit of say um uh women who've been married for a number of years in in a uh in a loving relationship, but you know, their husband, you know, is typical, he don't give her much attention. A little bit of flattery from somebody. You know what I mean? A little smile, and I before you know where you are, little cheeky word, before you know where you are, you're on the road, aren't you? Cup of tea, darling. You're on the road, don't you? And this is you know taking this one step further, this is where these scammers come in, isn't it? These scammers come in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they they tie into people's lusts.

Pornography, Memory, And Mental Images

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Yeah, the world ties into your lust. So when you look at the word lust, lust doesn't directly go to sexual activity. Lustful. You can be lustful for um absolutely anything because it it's it's the feeling that it gives your body the hunger that you are hungry for. So it throws open the can. We're gonna come on to that better to everything.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Yeah, you can I think I think we're gonna discuss you know, you can be adulter commit adultery with the world, can't you? Because easy. James says in in the four in James 4, he says, uh, if you love the world, then you're it's you you've got the you you've got an adulterous relationship with the world, because if you put that before the for God. But coming back to the well, you know, immediately we think of adultery as a sexual thing. And what we got to understand that it's not the actual, as you quite rightly say, not the actual physical act of committing uh having sex or having a sexual relationship outside of marriage, it's it's the thought or the lust.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Because the Bible is clear, don't have sex outside of marriage. So for a single person, so automatically the the whole weight of the word adultery hangs on a married person. When actually it is every human being under the sun, whether you're married, unmarried, getting married, getting divorced, because this Bible in front of me says each person is tempted.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

If you look at a person with sexual intent, yeah, that's that's adultery, isn't it? Of course it is.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

If you look at a person, but that but so when you say sexual intent, now we are being brought up in a in a time now when you can be whoever, however, you can be anything you want to be. So suddenly, where the Bible talks about lust of the flesh, and then you talk about Sodom and Gomorrah, we don't hear preaching on Sodom and Gomorrah. Them angels came down to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, and them men said very clearly, now look look look at that great man of God, look at him. You know, look what he said about his look what Lot said about his daughters.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Well, I'm telling you now, Ben, um Sodom and Gomorrah, the way this generation's going has got nothing on this general, the way that the the world is going at the moment, and I think the the handbrakes come off, and I I really think. We're just every day we're we're seeing more and more horrendous things.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

But so automatically, Sodom and Gomorrah, you go to a certain image, you go to a certain capture, you go to a certain audience, but actually, when you look at Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot said so much about how he thought and his respect for his daughters. He said, So the so basically, we know what what the angels came down from heaven to angels come to destroy, come to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah very, very clearly. And Lot did not want to leave. Now, this is this this gives me a lot of e bjeebs. Lot did not want to leave Sodom and Gomorrah. The Bible says that the angels had to drag him out of that place. Was that because he loved that environment?

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Or was that because he loved what I was doing? Have I got this right? Is he Lot? Did he not offer his doors?

SPEAKER_00 26:33

That's what I was about to say. Yes. So there's no respect there for you. So that so no, so Lot obviously was his uncle was Abraham. Abraham said to him before Sodom and before he moved, he said, Look, Lot, he said, our families are too big, let's divide up what we got. You take the first choice. And he was looking across the plains of all his rail everywhere. He could have gone anywhere, this lot, he could have had anything, but he chose to go. The Bible says Lot chose to take him and his family into Sodom and Gomorrah, and he sat in the gate. So he knew everything that was going on. So Abraham said, Okay, you've chosen Sodom, and Abraham went to the fields. So we have a man that the Bible says Lot was a righteous man. He was loved by God, he took his children, his wife, into the most darkest and sexualized town nation in the world. Angels came down to destroy it, and what he said was as Simon has just said, he said, Don't have sex with these men. You can do anything with my daughters. So respect thousands of years ago for women was gone. So now where we sit through different world religions, we are in a serious mess. Because anything goes.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

And I think you know, there's another aspect of that. I think as a as a man in uh in a family, you you you've got to um lead your house in the in the right direction. And I'm gonna ask I I'm gonna whoever's listening to this out there, if you're if you're married or you've got children, I'm gonna ask you this question, right? Because it's a real and it's a real question that it's a heart-searching question. Were your children born out of love or lust? The question is love or lust? Because there's a difference.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

There's a massive difference between love and lust. Now I'm very respectful to the world, believe it or not, I am, because God created all of us and all have sinned and fallen short of that glory. But we are living in a world that is driven by lust. Because if it was driven by love, this is what would happen. Correct me if I've got this wrong. If the world was driven by love, human kindness will be very different. Lust is a very dark and evil driver because lust looks after who? You me. It's and and we're talking about every level the lust for money, the lust for engagement to do whatever you want, and there's no consequence in it.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

There's no love for drink, lust for drink, drugs, gambling, all that sort of thing. Sex, drugs, and rock and roll.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

The lifestyle nine yards. So when you look at the word love and them two words, very interesting words. Is this nation driven by a loving government? Is the church driven by a loving leadership? Is business and culture driven by love? And I'm not talking about the soppy fro, I'm talking about a love for your fellow human being. And when I say you love them, you have respect and you you help one another. Are we driven by a Darwinistic, humanistic attitude that is a lustful that I want? Because that's what lust is, I want for me.

Desensitisation, Media, And Family Impact

SPEAKER_01 30:00

That's very strong now. Humanistic feelings. And and back in the 80s, there was a film out called Wall Street. Ah, yeah. And um Michael Douglas played a guy called Gordon Greco, and and his mantra was greed is good. Yeah, so there you go. It's still there, it's still that here there today. Greed is good, lust, yeah. You can and and listen, right now we're coming into the this is this podcast is done at the end of November, we're coming into the Christmas period. You will see on the television, yeah, time and time again, you can have this, you can have it. You can pay for it later. You can have this now, pay for it later, you can do anything you want, you can have it now, you can have it now, but you've got to pay for it later. But it's free. No. And it's exactly the same here. You lust after something, there's always there's no free lunches. There's no free lunches, no. You're gonna kick kicked up the backside somewhere down the line. If you are a married man or married woman, and you let lust for someone else enter that marriage, you are gonna go down the route of there'll be a little bit of personal gratification, but a consequence of that will rip because um where does it say in the Bible? It says um it it says all sin except sexual sin is committed outside the body, but sexual sin is committed inside the body. And when you're married to someone, it's not being glued together, yeah. And when you have sex with someone, you leave a bit of your spirit behind with them. Of course. So if you've got numerous sexual partners, which is just about lust.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

So that's when the Bible says that you are kin to, you are joint to, and and there are certain cultures out there that talk about breaking soul ties. Soul ties, yeah. Yeah. So that's a very, very deep word that is soul ties, cutting, cutting that off. The only place that anyone, and this is this is to do with all sin, because all of sin done falling short of your glory, and doesn't matter what the sin is, sin is sin. It doesn't matter about I've done this, you've done that, because the Bible says don't judge anyone. If you know anyone that has sinned anyway, the only place to come back is where? It's to the cross. So everything from number one to number ten, everything is easily committed because you you can sit indoors and you ain't got to do any act, but you're the you're the you've done all that. It's not so much leaving your house, it's your attitude, it is your mind, it is your thinking. This stuff, this lust stuff, but it's in your being, because it's come back to James again.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Yeah, but it's absolutely ruining people. I'm telling you, it's absolutely ruining people. This lust But the world the world tells us it's okay because you can do anything. But this sexual lust that leads to pornography is absolutely ruining men and it's causing suicide, it's causing because yeah, what happens is if you're completely engulfed in lustful fantasies towards pornographic images, yeah, how can you have a normal relationship? No, of course, yeah. You can't. And if you do enter a normal relationship, will you be able to perform in bed? And if you can't perform in bed, then that causes some so much depression and takes people into a place where where they you know the the the doctor doesn't they only deal with the symptoms, they don't deal with the roots, so they're gonna just gonna throw antidepressants at you, and before you know where you are, you you could end up in a situation where you want to take your own life because life is not worth living.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Because there's a connector, every everything is connected, everything is connected, and so many people in this world at this moment are really tired, really exhausted, fearful and worried. So when you look at we all I'm gonna say this, all of us have lived. Oh, okay, I hear a lot of people. 98% of this world lives lustfully. It totally.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Me, me, me, but me, me. It's right where the errant enemy wants you to be. He wants to destroy families, he wants to destroy you. Of course it does. It doesn't matter if you're the biggest Satan worshipper in the world, he wants to destroy you because you are made in the image of God. So he wants to destroy everything. Everything is he's uh he's turned everything round, he's imitated everything, so he's he's taking the the beauty don't forget God God invented sex. Exactly. So it this is a beautiful thing within within a loving relationship.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

But then you you've got to be.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

So he's turning this thing around.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

It is turned, it has turned from the Garden of Eden. It turned from the garden, the fall of man. So again Sin. That's where sin started. Sin started. So you have to look at Sodom and Gomorrah, and you have to look at them characters. The angels came from heaven, they come to deal with sexual exploitation of women, of boys, of men, of children. Everything that was breaking out in Sodom and Gomorrah, yes, it was destroyed, yes, it was taken out. But what we have now, it is dressed again, it is dressed again in religion, it is dressed again in paedophilia, it is dressed again, and the law, the law, I'm afraid to say the law in the UK is hiding a lot of people under the banner of this lustful paedophilia, right the way through so many layers of life where you can get away and do whatever you want because when someone has got something on you, you owe me, I will get you if you tell me. So suddenly we are living in a very big, as it the Bible says, as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

So I just get me right, but is Abraham after or before Noah? I can't remember. Right. A Abraham uh Abraham was before. Abraham was before the flood. So what happened at one time, then before the before the flood, yeah, the Bible tells us clearly that angels came down to earth and lusted after. Yeah. They lusted after and and and had sex with women. So you've got Nephilim. So the the Nephilim.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

The Nephilim. So they came. And there's evidence of this because they're giants. There's giants, giants of old. Yeah. The sons of God. You've got to look at you look at the characters that we are looking at the cinema at the moment. These ain't characters just because they're the Marvel characters. They are characters that you will find in the Bible. These characters that we find, these superhuman men, these men with superpowers, they existed and they slept with women, and then suddenly we have a generation that was birthed so clear and so.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

This is where people like um Goliath came to the case. Goliath, his brothers, they were bred out of the agog and all that.

James 1 And Temptation’s Inner Drift

SPEAKER_00 37:01

Yeah, and it says the sons of God. So before the flood, everything had to be dis everything had to be destroyed. So you right up until uh the the ark, you have all this stuff going on. Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed, um, everything that went on, but you've just got to look at Lot. Look at Lot for a moment. Here is a righteous man, he's come from the stock of Abraham. Abraham, a man of faith. And a righteous man.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

Look, they've all they all you know, they all fell short, didn't they? Even Abraham fell short. I love that scripture.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

All have sinned and fallen short of thy glory.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

You know, look, but I want to ask you this, just just moving on. Uh see, Jesus says after the adultery bit, he goes on to say, if uh if your hand causes you to sing, cut it off. If your eye causes you to look at something. I've got to cut it off. It's gotta be cut off. He says that, you know, uh otherwise you can't. Cut it off, brother. And then he goes straight on to Lisbon. He goes, Furthermore, it has been said, whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce. But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery. It bounces it back, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 38:24

You banged her rights on every level. Very difficult one, isn't it? You know, very difficult. I don't I don't actually know where to start on that. I don't know where to start on that.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Um But we can't ignore it because it is about adultery, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 38:36

It's about adultery, so you can't ignore it. So how do we deal with that? You know, I was divorced years and years and years and years ago, uh brought up in a Christian house, married uh first time, that went wrong, very young age, so I got divorced. So every everything that you're reading about, I've experienced and done.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

But for those that are going through divorce, those that are going through adultery, those that are going through murder and stealing and all the sins under the sun and and experiencing so much addiction with so much stuff, I'm gonna tell you this there is salvation at the cross of Calvary. Yeah, that's there's a way forward, and these scriptures are so big trying to unpack in 45 minutes. The more Simon and myself have looked at the can of um all these wordings, I suddenly realize how we have fouled, and I will use that, and I'm not speaking in an arrogant way, how the church has fouled not to preach the Ten Commandments. Because if the church had preached the Ten Commandments, maybe my lifestyle wouldn't be as wayward as it was. If if I had to come into a church and heard a message and been told that I am a sinner and I am coming from an um a place of sin, and if I don't get my life right, but but I must be pure pure and and and when I mean pure, I mean pure in my thought. That I I could go to ministries and churches now, and I I could be whoever I wanted to be, and the same label over that door, church, and the same label over that door, and the same low label over many denominations, I can be whoever I want to, and they they will try and manipulate the scripture to fit a lifestyle that I am lustful towards and make me okay in a congregation, yeah, because the Ten Commandments have not and are not being preached. They're not being preached, they're not being analysed, they're not being not being, you know, no one's digging deep on it, man. Now this has nothing got nothing to do with gender, this has got nothing to do with this this is to do with every person under the sun, because the scripture says in James chapter 1 verse 14, each person is tempted, and when he's dragged away by his own, so you drag yourself away. If I'm not being brought under conviction in a church and I'm being endorsed in a roundabout way to live in a certain mindset and a lifestyle, I've got no compass because that preacher has told me.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

Well, what I will say, what I will say very quickly before we go on to this, I believe right now, and I was speaking to someone last night and and that they endorsed that they uh I believe that I believe that preachers and church leaders will come under a judgment far stricter. It scares me. I honestly far stricter than than anyone else will be. And that's scripture. If you're a watchman, yeah, and you're not and you see these enemy coming.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

I am actually scared. I'm not frightened of telling the world I am scared when I die. People go, yeah, but you're born again. Yes, I know I'm born again. But have I got blood on my hands? I could literally cry now because of the messages that I've preached that hasn't dealt with me, hasn't dealt with issues in the church, hasn't dealt with areas of life, and I cannot turn back the clock. But when he calls me home, I just pray with all my heart, God will say to me, Well done and good and faithful servant. Because I'm I'm telling you, the church has got blood on its hands. Well, yeah, totally Ben. And you've only got to look, you've only got to look at the 30 pieces of silver that that Judas Iscariot give it back to the church, and they went, Nah. The church has got blood on its hand, and they bought a field of blood. And if you are a preacher or a teacher, if you call yourself a leader within the Christian community, I'm telling you, please.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

And and I I think uh leaders and preachers, we've got to pray for them, Ben. Wherever you are, I've got you've got to pray for your I'm scared for your life. And I'm not frightened to tell people you've got to pray because I I think they're coming under so much attack now. I'm not scared of this world. They've they've never come under so much attack because that is the way things are going. But so sticking with this adultery thing for uh just um we're gonna have to do another one on this. Yeah, we'll just carry it through. It's all carrying through, it's all moving forward. Because I was looking and doing a bit of research, and all of a sudden I I come across this spiritual adultery. Oh, yeah. So we're talking about physical adultery, we spent a lot of time on that mind, heart, heart, but spiritual adultery, and it says it says in Romans 8, 7, and 8, it it it says that because the carnal mind is an enmity against the carnal mind.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

Hang on a minute, but I'm born again. The carnal mind.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

For it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So it says, you know, your flesh can't be subject to the law of God. Because Jesus has to live inside of you. Then it goes on to say, so then those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

Come back to the scripture, and the writer writes, Oh wretched man am I. Why do I do the things that I shouldn't and I cannot do the things that I should do? The greatest writer again. Romans seven. Romans seven. Why do I do? So I wonder what he was doing. I wonder what he was thinking. I wonder what that great apostle, that great man of God was thinking, that he was battling with. Why do I do the things I should not that I hate? Now he's using the word hate. Now I don't usually use that word. I try to swerve that word because to me that is a very piercing word. Well we discussed hate last week, Ben. It is. So it's the heart thing. It's the heart. So what is he confessing? Why do I do the th I do the things I hate and I cannot do the things that I should do? The scriptures just bangs everybody to rights.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

Totally to right. Look what it says in James 4, 4 and 5. It says, adulterers and adulteresses. It's got on both there. Jesus has got us both. We're all done. Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God?

Sodom, Lot, And Generational Lessons

SPEAKER_00 45:13

Friendship with the world.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy with God. Or do you think that the scripture says in vain, the spirit who dwells in us yearns jealousy, but he gives more grace. Therefore he says, God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

So yeah, I'll tell you what, these scriptures are so long, deep, wide. Look at what it says. Who is friendly to the world? Hang on a minute. I didn't realise I was friendly to the world because of work, because of this, because of that. So then you think to I'm carnal. I'm carnal minded, but I I love Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

We say it in in every podcast, if you listen to this stuff out there, you've got to come back to the cross.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

Every second of every heartbeat, it's like you need to keep the cross, keep the cross visit visually in front of you all the time. I know we've got it there. You wouldn't go far wrong, Ben, if you did. Because I go to work, carnal. I go living life, carnal. You go shopping, carnal. Wherever you go, when you leave your house, even it oh my goodness gracious me. Even in the house, you turn the telly on. Carnal. Well the gaming now look at the gaming generation. Now wasted you're talking about wasted life. Now the gaming generation has been brought up to think that you can there is rape in games, there is murder in games, there is lust in games. So we have a generation that is being brought up with this gaming generation where you are gaming and you can do whatever you want, taking life, destroying people, blowing up buildings, you can do anything you want, but it's a game. But your mind, your mind is being driven. So when you game, that is affecting you, and because you've gamed it and you've played it for hours and hours and hours, it actually makes your character very difficult. So the gaming generation, yeah, you can murder, you can steal, you can have sex with anybody, you can commit the most darkest and cut people's heads off. The graphics that they can't get any more depraved. So if you're gaming all day and all night, what's it gonna do to your mind? But I come to church on a Sunday. But I'm a I'm a I'm a preacher. I love gaming, but what I'll tell you what, this world is busted, broken, and disgusted.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

What does it say, John? Uh Johnk, but what does it say, Ben? In one john. In one John. In one John, too. It says, Do not love the world or the things of the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the father is not in him. You gotta check your heart to see what you love the world. Yeah. You know, so so here's the deal, Ben. You know, without going on further, because we will go on just a little bit further. If you love the world, then it's all about loving the planet right now, isn't it? It's all about loving the planet.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

Look at the podcasting table, the greenery. Look at I'm starting to hug trees because the church is so.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

They're talking about loving the creation and not the creator. I don't know. So if you start you start loving the planet which was created for us, yeah and put it before God. I mean you love the planet, don't get me wrong, but if you put it on it because it's beauty, because God created beauty. I I was out this early doors this morning just as the sun was coming up with my dog and seeing the sun come up over it, it's absolutely stunning. But but don't put it before God because he said, Look, you know, if anyone loves the world, the love of the father is not in him. He says what is the world? That is the world. Listen, this is what it says, it explains it here, but it says the lust of the flesh, no, the lust of the eyes, no way, and the pride of life. But I'm a Christian. Is not pride of the father but of the world. And the world is passing away and the lust of it, but he who does the will of the God abide abides forever.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

But can you can you read that again? I know it's a read, but let's let's just read that again and just spend a few minutes just looking at a cup of tea.

SPEAKER_01 49:36

So this is spiritual adultery, Ben. So do not love the world or the things in the world.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

Right, okay. Don't love the world, right. Let me write that down. Right, okay.

SPEAKER_01 49:49

Carry on. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, we've talked about that this morning. Yeah. The lust of the eyes, we've also talked about that this morning. The eyes, and the pride of life, which you've spoken about that because it all points to you if if you're going down that route route.

Spiritual Adultery: Loving The World

SPEAKER_00 50:18

Love, don't love the world. Don't love the world. Yeah. How do I love the world? What is the most now? This this is a rhetorical question to all of us. Whereabouts in my life do I love the world? What part is it through sports? Is it through gaming? Is it through TV? It's all of that. Is it through drink? Is it through gambling? Is it through quiet addiction that no one knows that I'm addicted to? Money. Is it money? Is it shopping? Yeah. Is it yeah, yeah, is it is it is it what is it? That is the question is because that that Bible bangs everybody somewhere tight.

SPEAKER_01 51:02

Lust of the eyes, I want that, I want that.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

I love that. Yeah, I want a new telly. Do you know what? There's a new PlayStation come out, new Xbox. I can't wait to get that.

SPEAKER_01 51:11

And here's the deal with that, Ben. We all know people that go, yeah, I want that, I want that. And then when they get it, I'm empty. They want the next thing. None of that stuff fills you.

SPEAKER_00 51:22

I'm that person. None of that stuff fills you. I want the latest iPhone, I want the latest gadget, I want the latest laptop, I want the latest iPad, I want the latest podcast, I want the latest mics to do God's work.

SPEAKER_01 51:35

Where, where many times do you hear people go, yeah, if I just won a few million on the lottery, I wake up every morning and pray that prayer, Lord, I'll give so much. I'd help you out, Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 51:47

And he must be going, I created the trees.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

Man, you ain't even doing it, you know, he's I know you do an awful lot better.

SPEAKER_00 51:55

But just throwing the blanket over it all, yeah, it's like, where where does this become? Because we can all dress it up in ministry. But it's spiritual adultery. I'm doing it for Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

Spiritual adultery. If we don't anything that we put before God, yeah, it's spiritual. It's spiritual adultery. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:10

So when you look at ministers and people in ministry, are you doing it for Jesus or are you committing spiritually adultery? Are you doing it?

SPEAKER_01 52:19

Yes, that's right. Where's the signpost pointing? We always always say that, don't we?

SPEAKER_00 52:23

Is your Facebook page pointing people to Jesus or is it pointing them to you? I think. Is your Twitter feed pointing them to Jesus or is it pointing to you? Because if you are lifting you up, you are an adulterer spiritually. You might not sleep with anybody. But if you are in a pulpit and you are a minister and your social media is pointing more to you, brother or sister, I put myself with you, we are adulterers. And you're you're end in hand with the enemy. It's you you social media tells us where we sit in few places sexually, spiritually, and about me. Adulterous So when Jesus said you adulterous generation, the socials didn't exist. He knew what was coming up the tracks.

SPEAKER_01 53:17

Yeah, he knew because he knew what was in people's hearts, didn't he?

SPEAKER_00 53:20

He caught it, you know, because I mean when you get attention in ministry, it is the most a dangerous attraction on the earth.

SPEAKER_01 53:28

And the problem is, you're honour one million percent right. The problem is when the ministry starts to grow, it's me.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

So I have just busted the Ten Commandments without jumping into the sack, without having a gambling addiction, without having a drink addiction, but also ministry can take you to a place of lying. What do you mean, Pastor Ben? You would because you big yourself up, and once you start to big yourself up, you cannot let your wor your world down and say how many ministers will get in the pulpit and say to their congregations, I have sinned and I have broken the Ten Commandments. We're bigging ourselves up all day.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

As soon as you I mean, I would say look out there, and if you see anyone posting on any platform and they're using the word I more than You are an adulterer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:25

You are adulterer yourself before. But as soon as you mention adultery, you th you think of a change of fluid between two people, basically.

SPEAKER_01 54:33

Yeah, you think of sex between two of you.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

But actually outside of marriage. Outside but actually the Bible says as well, that you can't have sex before marriage. So we have spoken about marriage, but there is people in Christian communities that are single. Mmm, there's a big subject.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

It's a huge subject. This whole thing is much.

SPEAKER_00 54:53

It doesn't just drop it onto a married couple, it doesn't drop it onto a single person, it drops it onto human beings. Human beings, yeah. Human beings. Yeah. And we just don't have the time. We're 55 minutes in, but I think we've broken the skin on a very interesting spiritual adultery in ministry.

SPEAKER_01 55:13

And the and and the the deal has been the world is going one way, and we've said it many times, haven't we?

SPEAKER_00 55:21

It's like I think we've got Darwin, Darwinistic preachers in pulpits.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

It's like swimming against it's like a salmon swimming against the current. You're 100% right. Whole world is going that way, and you've got to go that way. And so you're yeah, to stand to stand up and go, oh, this is what this is what our father meant. Yeah. This is what Jesus meant. So I'm gonna stand behind that. I'm gonna stand behind the cross. So when we I'm gonna go through the cross.

SPEAKER_00 55:50

Oh, Simon. You you go through the cross. What does going through it's a filter system, it's a filter system. The refiner's fire.

SPEAKER_01 55:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:58

So there may be people just with so much attractions to the world that are in ministry that don't actually admit it from the pulpit. And when I mean attractions to the world, how many leaders of churches are addicted to gaming? Right, even if you look at the word gaming, is there a clean game out there to play? Yeah, I know this word search, you know what I'm I'm you I'm pushing the drum on other things. Addiction doesn't mean to have to be pornography, doesn't mean to be gambling, doesn't mean to be drinking. But you can be addicted to your church. You can I think we better press the buttons. Can't you? You can be addicted to your church. I am addicted to I'm addicted to ministry and to pleasing people. I'm addicted and I love to feel it. Now, there is where is the line though? Where is that line? Do I cut off? There is a line, isn't it? There is a line. And I've crossed over that spiritual adultery.

SPEAKER_01 56:48

I've crossed over that then. You have to bring you know, we all have to bring it all to the to the cross, don't we? And we have to say, Father, you know, is this what you want me to do? Where do you want me to be? Where do you and how do you want me to do you know what the answer would be? You know, and funny enough, we we we said it in the little kitchen out there earlier that if you're a leader, then your job is to lead, but it's also to encourage, and it's to be nameless, faceless, to encourage people around you to take up positions where their gifts are not doesn't reflect back to you. No, it doesn't reflect back to you, it reflects your barn, you're a barnabas, you're an encouragement.

Ministry, Pride, And Misplaced Glory

SPEAKER_00 57:33

You're an encourager. You're encouraging, but you sit in the wings. You're not taking the glory. So when you take the glory in the glory for what they've done. I put them in ministry. They work for me in my ministry. So when I talk like that, I am committing adultery in the language form.

SPEAKER_01 57:50

And this is the for me, this is is the worst form of adultery when someone goes, I led that person to the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 57:59

We have we have led this ministry this week has led five people to Jesus. Because I was instrumental in their salvation. No one's led anyone. The Bible says, before you, before the foundations of the world, I knew you. I formed you. You are here for my good will and my good pleasure. That's that is just beyond everything. So do you know what someone? I don't know how we're gonna finish this, but just comes to my thinking at this moment and my heart, is this is the this is important for me is not to look at anybody else. They've got a speck in their eye. I've got a forest.

SPEAKER_01 58:38

You've got we've got planks in our own eyes, ain't we?

SPEAKER_00 58:42

I've got stuff that Jesus needs to strip me back from to deal me, deal with me from all all have sinned and fallen short of thy glory, the thinking, the attitude, the pride of life, arrogance, anger, coming back, fighting back. You can't talk to me like that. I this is what I think about you.

SPEAKER_01 59:01

I think where the we're so far, I mean, and it and it it it ain't gonna stop. The ten com the Ten Commandments have taken us, Ben, is is the realisation just how far we are from how far I'm away from living them. Yeah, exactly. Living them. Yeah. So I think what we should do to close it is that you should get up and should go and switch that light off on the outside, which puts your name up in lights. Oh, yeah. And and and and take that statue down outside of them statues.

SPEAKER_00 59:28

I've got them statues, they've just come in, they're gold. Oh yeah, that's adultery, isn't it? I'm I'm bigging myself up Iron Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

Yeah, you've won the Ben Cooper Award this week.

SPEAKER_00 59:38

That order for that throne. Amazon, I'm sorry, can you take it back? I've got their throne coming out. I've got their throne coming.

SPEAKER_01 59:44

I've got that new poster of me. You can maybe change it for an easy boy chair, you know. Do your gaming on it. I do my gaming on it. Oh no. And the the ice beers in the corner. No, dear me, I've got a cigar got like a cigar. Hey, we're only joking, we're having a laugh, but but this some this serious stuff. There's some very deep and serious stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:03

Isn't it interesting? You've just we've mentioned the word very not flippantly, but the gaming. The seriousness between the gaming. What when you when you play a game, you are committing so much stuff. You might be the a great brother or sister, you might be on your phone gaming, but actually without the realization, because you've been brought up in the gaming generation, all the sins are committed on the screen.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:30

You brought up something now I never thought about, but it you know, you I believe the Lord's given it to you because when you're killing people on the screen, yeah, but it's a game, oh Simon. But in your heart, you want to kill that person.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:45

You're in the game, and look at now with the the the masks that go around your face. You are you are in that game. How many Christians spend hours gaming and then get pick up the guitar and sing cum baya, Lord? Get and preach a message. So we have brought a lot to the table.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:09

You're not exaggerating.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:10

How many churches have gaming nights in youth clubs, youth ministry?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:15

Well, I've been I've been I've been to places uh and and and the uh the sound guys come up and say, Can you pray for me? Because I was uh I was heavily into pornography last night. And you knew you'd come to church the next day.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:29

You knew you were coming. But I think we put so much conversation on pornography and gaming and drugs and sex when actually all are committed when you play certain games. The whole thing. The whole nine yards.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:45

And and very soon they'll have there'll be virtual sex or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:50

I'm gonna look into some research into some gaming because I'm not a gamer, I've never been a gamer. So I'm actually gonna look you played a few games, haven't you? I'm always playing games, I'm always losing, but I'm literally gonna I'm in the bookies out, huh? God, you know what, I've got I've got to wipe that slate off. Do you know what I know if I own some money in that turf account and stuff, but I can't go in that collar anymore, I'll tell you what. But honestly, I'm gonna do some research in some games, and I'm gonna just look into what actually is built in because I know, and we all know, Christmas is coming, there will be Xbox, there'll be PlayStations, there'll be the I don't even know what the uh the that is that goes around you, I don't even know what the terminology is, it wraps around your face. Virtual virtual the virtual stuff. So you're literally not sitting on your sofa anymore, you are you are the character in that.

Gaming, Virtual Worlds, And Sin

SPEAKER_01 1:02:39

So if you are that character and this is I mean, this is the whole thing, which which we because we're coming we've got a jump. We're about out. You know, even I go and see my uh five-year-old grandson, he's playing Minecraft on on the on the thing, and he's talking about Minecraft Steve who goes off and and and and and tops people, do you know what I mean? So even on that He tops people Yeah, even at that level, do you know? And then you get killed, don't you? You you can get killed, you can lose your lives, you know. And my granddaughter's on something called Roblox and and doing all that sort of thing. So they're they're they're they get into this stuff at a at a very early age, Ben.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:21

I I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna look at this because it's easy to point the finger at the obvious stuff, yeah, but the stuff that we have in our homes are as bad to the physical outside you so you don't need to go out your front door.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:39

I know uh I know uh you know Christian guys that have just slump on the sofa, oh just uh play a game before you know where you are. Four hours are gone.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:48

Yeah. In a close of this, whoever's out there at this moment and capture this podcast, I think it'd be great to do some podcasting with some Christian gamers. Because there's a conversation we probably a conversation that we've never probably looked at before in a day.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:04

But I don't think I don't think uh as a gamer you would look at that because if you're playing um It's relaxation.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:11

I'm gaming. Well, I'll tell you what, Simon, you say the last words because we're one hour, four minutes, twenty seconds. Well, this is the longest podcast we've done, Ben, and we've really But that word adultery has opened up the gateway because that's what it does.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:28

We haven't even talked about the adultery of nations and and because we're we're carry on next week.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:33

Carry on up this week. Carry on this conversation because it's opened up so much.

Invitation Back To The Cross

SPEAKER_01 1:04:36

We just want to say uh you know, pray for anyone, just lift anyone up out there if you're if this has touched your heart and and uh you realise all of a sudden, hold on a minute, you know, there's something not quite right there, but we'd invite you to come back to the cross, we'd invite you to to look at your life, we'd invite you to ask the Holy Spirit to point out anything that's that that's just not right and that you're putting before God because anything that you put before God, you're committing adultery. It's not just that sexual thing, it's anything that you put before God. And you know what? Ben's got it right. Jesus nails it every time, doesn't he? He does he just nails it every time. So we can only point you towards the cross, we can only point towards Jesus and and we're gonna jump and jump out of here, Ben, and and yeah, just go and play that game in that new car that we got.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:25

Well that uh dresser's car you still. Yeah, could you lend us some money? Because I want to buy some new clothes. I've got lust for clothes. Well you need it, don't you? Yeah, I need it, you know. A scarf wrapped around your neck. What's the camel's still outside? I just feel like a gluttoner this morning. Gluttony. There's another word. There's another word, isn't it? Oh lord, we're out of here.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:44

God bless every one of you. You can find us on Spotify by Heart Radio. You know what? We love you. Not in a lustful way. In a brother.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:52

Just be encouraged because we're bringing this so you can clean your lives up. And we can clean our lives up. Give me some bleach keys. Please. Sort of spiritual bleach, believe it.