Embarking on the journey of fatherhood can be as daunting as it is rewarding, and no one knows this dance of delight and difficulty better than my good friend Matt Lynch. Alongside Lynchie, whose heart is as big as his experience as a high school teacher and father of three, we unravel the complexities and emotional depths of what it means to be a dad today. From the earnest trials of parenting a special needs child to the gut-wrenching paths of pregnancy loss, our candid exchange paints a visceral picture of the highs and lows that shape a father's world.
Fatherhood is a transformative ride that reshapes relationships and personal growth, and together with Lynchie, we open the pages of our own stories, from the nuanced struggles of health concerns with my child Aimen to the essential power of parental intuition. Our dialogue ventures into the heart of what it takes to advocate for our children and partners, offering a beacon of understanding for any father feeling the weight of such immense love and responsibility. We laugh, we reflect, and we embrace the shared wisdom that comes from the trenches of raising toddlers to twins, ensuring that this episode becomes a treasured resource for dads everywhere.
As we wrap up our soulful session, we touch on the importance of maintaining one's individuality amidst the chaos of parenting. The essence of fatherhood, as we've come to realize, is about balancing the joyous mayhem of family life with the personal passions that keep us whole. This episode isn't just a conversation; it's a guidepost for any father navigating the waters of partnership, parenthood, and personal discovery. Join us for a journey that promises to leave you more equipped, more empathetic, and more enthusiastic about the role you play in the lives of your little ones.
Embarking on the journey of fatherhood can be as daunting as it is rewarding, and no one knows this dance of delight and difficulty better than my good friend Matt Lynch. Alongside Lynchie, whose heart is as big as his experience as a high school teacher and father of three, we unravel the complexities and emotional depths of what it means to be a dad today. From the earnest trials of parenting a special needs child to the gut-wrenching paths of pregnancy loss, our candid exchange paints a visceral picture of the highs and lows that shape a father's world.
Fatherhood is a transformative ride that reshapes relationships and personal growth, and together with Lynchie, we open the pages of our own stories, from the nuanced struggles of health concerns with my child Aimen to the essential power of parental intuition. Our dialogue ventures into the heart of what it takes to advocate for our children and partners, offering a beacon of understanding for any father feeling the weight of such immense love and responsibility. We laugh, we reflect, and we embrace the shared wisdom that comes from the trenches of raising toddlers to twins, ensuring that this episode becomes a treasured resource for dads everywhere.
As we wrap up our soulful session, we touch on the importance of maintaining one's individuality amidst the chaos of parenting. The essence of fatherhood, as we've come to realize, is about balancing the joyous mayhem of family life with the personal passions that keep us whole. This episode isn't just a conversation; it's a guidepost for any father navigating the waters of partnership, parenthood, and personal discovery. Join us for a journey that promises to leave you more equipped, more empathetic, and more enthusiastic about the role you play in the lives of your little ones.
Howdy ho, daddy-os, and welcome to the Dad Podcast. This is brought to you by myself, kyle Graham. This is a place where all types of dads, or dads to be, can tune in, copy-geek or learn something new about life as a parent. Follow along as we interview dads of all types and undercover some wisdom to help us be the best dads and partners we can be. So get comfy and listen in your big deals, because the next episode of the Dad Podcast is about to go down. Alrighty, good day, fellow Dils. Welcome to the Dad Podcast. I'm your host, kyle Graham. So today I've asked my good friend, maddie Lynch, who we will call Lynchie, because that's what I suppose to do. We create a nickname with an Y on the end of it and yeah that's what we do.
Speaker 1:Anyway, yes. So, Matt, you're one of the first guests on the potty and pretty stoked to have you on and share your story and hopefully share some wisdom to our fellow dad-os. Now, the purpose of this potty is to share the good times and the shit times of parenthood in the hope to help one of our dad or dads to be to learn from our wisdom or mistakes. I wish I had something like these to listen to while we were trying for a baby, even in those early days, wondering if you ever sleep or have a hobby again.
Speaker 2:It's what they're all about? The answer is no or minimal.
Speaker 1:So, Matt, just be as open and honest as possible so we can help our fellow dad-os to dad glory Perfect. Tell us your story. Who's Matt Lynch? Where are you from? What do you do for a crust?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Matt Lynch for a crust. I'm a teacher by trade and by practice, so I work in a local high school I suppose I've been a teacher for over 10 years now and I work in the student welfare realm. So lots to do with kids, mental health and staff mental health at times, I suppose and parents and helping parents parent and teach their kids. So I suppose I've got experience in that. I'm a Tweethead's born or I actually born in Wollombar, but yeah, tweethead's boy lived in Cooley Tweet my whole life been overseas with my wife, lived in London, travelled, come back here and settled down in Tweet and got a few kids. So I suppose that makes me a dad. I've got a two-year-old, almost three-year-old, called Aiman, and then I've got five-month-old twins.
Speaker 2:So, George and Hazel, which are, yeah, they're interesting, and they tell you you're alive, that's for sure. Well, I don't know, will they say. You know, you only know when you're alive, when you're close to death and you've got to write that nightly.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that's me. I suppose I'm a passionate person. You're a dad and I married. Yeah, dad and I married. We've married since now. I'm shocking with names, dates, times and places. Yeah, we've married. Come out to four years. We were together for that for longer. We've been together 10 years, so we've been together. A wife I think she's my best friend, for sure, and if you don't say they're about your wife they'll let you know.
Speaker 1:So she's got me listening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we've been together a long time and when we had kids, we wanted kids. I suppose we were the fortunate people when it comes to parenthood, that we wanted a house, we wanted to get married and then we wanted to have kids. So we were really fortunate that we were able to do that. We were those lucky people In that order, yeah, I suppose. Yeah, we did it all in one year, essentially Got married, bought a house and then the next year we tried for a year and then had Aimen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to say so, you know. The next question I had for you, mate, was share with us your journey on, you know, becoming a dad first and then we'll get to the second time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I suppose, becoming a dad for me everyone says it's going to be easy. You know, I had lots of mates who went out first, first girl, and got a kid, and I've got other mates who tried for a long time and we were probably somewhere in the middle there. So we tried for about, I'd say, eight or nine months, I think from memory. And then Dana fell pregnant with Aimen, which was really really good, and I suppose I think there's two experiences there's a pregnancy for a man and there's a pregnancy for a woman?
Speaker 1:Is it like the shape of your gut? Yeah well, I'm a sympathetic.
Speaker 2:I'm a sympathetic husband. I gained weight in my midsection and I've been pregnant for about eight years now. But I think there's experiences for the pregnancy, for gaining pregnant, for the male and for the female, and I think they're two. They're distinct, they're very distinctly different of how the experience is. And Dana and I talk about this all the time. Yeah, how is the pregnancy for you? She'll ask.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like you know, and what dads know how to answer that? It's a funny question. You know, like we probably never even think about ourselves during that process.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:And like how are you feeling and whatever. So, and I think, it's.
Speaker 2:It's a lot of an art, it's an afterthought for lots of people and I think lots of wives have really pushed a lot of the parenting responsibilities to their male and with that there is a responsibility or a feeling or a story during the pregnancy that the male experiences. That's coming to the fore now, which is really good, because it's an amazing experience as a dad seeing your wife and the awe you're in about what their body goes through and how they're feeling and all these different types of things. So yeah, the journey is a very interesting one or our journey to getting pregnant, I suppose, because I suppose we'll get to it later Like from data giving birth. I think she would describe it as shocking or horrendous or terrible.
Speaker 2:And then to the recovery after wasn't great, and then just everything associated with it, and then having twins the second time around. You know that was a very different experience because we did have a miscarriage in between there which was I don't know if it's you call it typical or untypical, but we had quite a late miscarriage we were 13 or 14 weeks.
Speaker 2:we just announced to our friends that Saturday that we were pregnant and we were expecting our second child, and then to lose her was pretty horrific, I think, for both of us, and I'll get to that later, because I'd like to dive deeper into that and share with people how you dealt with it, how you supported Dana through it and all that sort of thing, but you would definitely get to that.
Speaker 1:So a bit about, I guess, your first aim and what was sort of your birth story with him. You sort of said it was a bit traumatic and that sort of thing. So is there anything that you can share with us that will help someone that potentially is about to go through the same thing or has gone through the same thing very recently?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think the first thing for us is when you said like what's your birth story? I suppose there's two sides of it, because you're watching your wife go through hers and I can't speak for her.
Speaker 2:I can only speak for what I saw. So we were 40 weeks on the date. I went for a ride in the morning, got home made poached eggs, gave it to Dana. Next minute her water's broke. She went. Contractions wise People talk about oh, labor takes forever, labor takes forever. She went first contraction 20 minutes to the next one, 12 minutes to the next one and then four minutes from that point onwards.
Speaker 1:So we were really, really quick, so we were at the hospital.
Speaker 2:Dana was in labor for 14 hours and having two epidurals. The first one didn't work. I gave her a partial block. Second one worked, then went through the whole process. Aimeen was in the birth canal for a long time. Things had to progress quickly. So Aimeen came out. But then Dana lost about two, two and a bit later, blood and I had Aimeen in my arms and I remember sitting in the corner watching her going, oh, it's okay, it's okay. And her just yeah, going through this horrendous experience red lights flashing, people coming in.
Speaker 1:Isn't that crazy? Like we're the same thing with Valley, where I just remember looking up and all of a sudden there was about 15 doctors and nurses in the room, going from two to 15 and like that. I didn't even really notice that there was much going on, but it's pretty crazy, pretty overwhelming feeling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think at that point we were pretty tired. So we got to the hospital in the morning and it was sort of towards the night, towards midnight, and it had been a long day. The birth process, like you were saying, can be quite emotional and I think, like all the three, like you see, your wife, they talk about them turning into an animal, like they bear a lion, they are a gorilla, they did this kind of thing and it comes out. And when Dana had finally given birth to Aimen and we had the cuddle and then she hemorrhaged pretty severely, I had Aimen in my arms in the corner and you're looking at this child that you've just been given and I remember thinking to myself I don't want to trade him for her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, like for me, that was the traumatic bit, I suppose. Yeah, and I don't know if it's trauma, but it's an experience. It's emotional because for the days after the nurses come in and the first person they say, are you all right, how are you feeling now? For the other day and my wife's, like you just give birth, they ask the dad all the time. So I, when I look back on it, I look at it. That was pretty hectic and I remember just looking at Dana going. I can't do this without you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's yeah, there's a lot going on.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I think that was our birth. It's a surreal feeling, like I think you, potentially you may have to make that choice, yeah.
Speaker 2:You've never felt so helpless in your life. Yeah, I'm a real helper, I'm a rescuer. Yeah, I think that's in my workplace. I try not to be a rescuer, but you know so they talk about it in business sense or work sense. And I couldn't help Dana, so you just got to trust, I suppose. Yeah, so that was our birth experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, ok, and through the first pregnancy, so with Aimen, did Dana have much in the way of, you know, hyper-remesis or morning sickness or anything like that?
Speaker 2:Remnously morning sick for the first 12 weeks. Yeah, aimen was back to back the whole time. Yeah, so that's why we had the epidural in the end. Yeah, because Aimen wouldn't turn. Yeah, so he was, yeah, back to back the whole way through. Dana's back pains were really bad. So like seeing her go through that alone and the whole pregnancy you know from 12 weeks of astromestor, second trimester, yeah, everything was perfect. Everything, yeah, measured well, did everything perfectly. Aimen was great.
Speaker 1:I suppose, yeah, and how did you, I guess, support Dana through that? You know, morning sickness and what was it? What was like her? Was there any tricks? Like the tricks? What?
Speaker 2:helped her. I think if you, you know, you don't know your partner well. First thing, my wife is like a newborn. Yeah, she's hungry, she's upset, she's tired, she's upset, she wants to cuddle, she's upset. So, yeah, going those things. Make sure she's fed and got food that she needs. To Make sure you, if your wife or your partner, has morning sickness, the biggest thing is trying to get something in there to them to eat before they get it. A bit, yeah, and then when they get up, make sure you're taking the stress off. Maybe you've made breakfast or you've done something for them in the morning so they feel good and feel supported. Yeah, I tried to make sure that I was there every morning to help her out. And then, yeah, I don't know after that, like it's just yeah, the first time around, I suppose, is different to the second time. So the second time around I knew what to do. The first time, for a first time, dad, I didn't know what Dana needed.
Speaker 1:Did you read any books or anything Like? What did you do? Educate yourself as much as you could.
Speaker 2:I suppose I just talked to people. Yeah, I talked to a lot of people, but I also. The biggest thing is I asked Dana what she wanted. I think you can't pretend to know or think you know what your partner needs, so I just asked her what do you want? And I tried to do every morning and trying to not wait for her to ask.
Speaker 2:Do it before she needed it. So get water. So it's there. And you see all these TikToks. Now we're like you know where the wife loves the husband when the water comes back filled up already, and they're like, oh my God, I love it. It's a bit like that, take note. Yeah, take note. So I think the tricks of the trade, it depends on the person. Everyone's anatomy is different, obviously, so have a react, but the hardest thing for a male is staying sane. You know, throughout the whole thing, and not not in the fact that someone's driving you crazy, but you're trying to stay sane to ensure that you can best support your wife.
Speaker 1:Yeah, keeping some calm around the house and it's like, yeah, definitely they can just focus on what they need to do. Yeah, that being said, did you guys have any sort of? Did you do any classes? Did you have any birth plan? Did you, like you know, educate yourselves on that before, to know what to expect?
Speaker 2:We went to a birthing class that the hospital makes you do.
Speaker 1:So they are anti-natal, anti-natal, it was really good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I suppose Dana and I where we were older, I suppose, than lots of couples I don't know how old most people are but I felt like we were ready for children and we thought about it a lot. So didn't read any books necessarily, I didn't, Dana did. I know Dana did. She read some stuff on hit no birthing, I think from memory, not that we went down that route, but just some strategies for breathing and things like that.
Speaker 2:My biggest thing, I suppose I'm a prepared person, so I had the bag packed and you know all those different bits and pieces. I knew how to get there. I knew how to phone number in my speed dial for the hospital and the midwife. We went through the private system, which was a godsend in the end, I think. So we had a private obstetrician. So if we had any questions, I would just ring and he'd say, come straight in. So I suppose that's the preparation we did.
Speaker 2:And because we had a private obstetrician. We saw him. It's like every month, I think and you go down every two weeks and I went to every appointment as well, so I was on the floor with everything. So I think that was a big thing going with your wife. Yeah, it was big if they got appointments.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you feel like you understand a bit more. Yeah, and also it's all like that fear of unknown or whatever is taken away when that you're in the room with them learning exactly hearing it from the horses. Now you know so to speak. You know just puts you at ease and helps you think clearer about you, know what you need to do and I think with education, like I'm a science teacher.
Speaker 2:So when you teach kids about anatomy and physiology, the reasoning I prompt lots of the boys and lots of girls in the classes if we're learning about reproductive system or anatomy, it's like you may have a partner or wife one day and you need to know what these things are. So when people are talking about it, you are not asking questions. You're sort of you've been able to process it. So in that same vein, going to every appointment, you know what's going on.
Speaker 1:You're not here in the second hand.
Speaker 2:You can ask questions to the obstetrician. Yeah, anyone would ever heard of baby brain. Yeah, it's real. Like you feel? I feel for data, like when they're pregnant, there's so much going on that maybe the short term memories and the other day, but you can ask the questions, make sure they're being asked for them.
Speaker 1:So yeah, there's a lot of information out there being fed to, you know, the females when they are pregnant and expecting. It's be overwhelming. You know, like there's there's a they're fed a lot of information and it's like what's best for you? You've got to make that decision where it's. It's not like a quicker approach.
Speaker 2:No it's any of it you know, and being a dad's the same thing. Yeah, Like it's. Yeah, it's what works for you. There's a context.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Whatever it is, though, no for sure.
Speaker 1:And so that's probably like a good summary of of like your first aim in and like how I'm in. Came into the world and yeah, like how's, how's life with a toddler now, like he's, he's sort of how old is he now? He's three.
Speaker 2:He's come up to three in November, yeah, so yeah, he's a little legend, like he's. Just it's amazing seeing your if you're first born.
Speaker 1:I don't know. They're just everything.
Speaker 2:They're amazing and he's perfect. Like I just love him. You know, it's so good, I suppose, when you ask him what he's like, is the toddler Like you would know, I suppose, and people listening.
Speaker 1:I said we do have a cyclone. Amen In the house, we do have a cyclone, amen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's different when you have your second. The toddler becomes a different beast and they become a three, a three-nager as they say, and they're terrible twos and yeah, there's definitely a range of stresses that come into it. But yeah, he's really well and I suppose you would know but we we've never really spoken about publicly about Amen and he's had his difficult distance birth and I suppose you want me to chime into that Because I feel comfortable. Yeah, I think it. I think it helped. It will help dads out there, I suppose.
Speaker 2:So Amen, he's hemiplegic cerebral palsy, so he's very mild. So that means that he's left side of his body it could be either, but he's left side is weaker than his right side. If you were to see kids when you're in school, they might walk or right, but they might not run. Ok, yeah, they may have a weaker side. So that's Amen. He was diagnosed with that at three months of age and that's stressful, yeah, when you don't know. So he never really crawled right and he was dragging himself a lot and once I was weaker we noticed that his trunk strength was weaker and he had sort of the reflux. So he was on a drug called low sec, which is the anti reflux medication. He was on that for a while and these things are all linked.
Speaker 2:I suppose he's feeding and tongue ties and the ties are all sort of come from the cerebral palsy, I suppose, and that all linked together. Yeah it came through that diagnosis and that's a trial and tribulations kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I was going to. I was going to dig into that if you feel comfortable. But how did you cope with that? How did you take that news that you've just gone from? You know, this bundle of joy that it lasts, perfect. And then you crunched with this news that you know you weren't expecting.
Speaker 2:I suppose initially it hits hard because you don't know what it is. Yeah, you don't know how it can look and no one does, yeah, so I mean there's variations of cerebral palsy. Obviously severity, I mean he's mild, so hopefully later in life you won't know. But when you get the first diagnosis the suspicions are that your son has cerebral palsy. And I remember the moment we were told and I wasn't told. Dana was at the physio, I think they were doing all these tests, got all these people in the room and it had been happening for a few weeks because we were trying to. I think it was his hand strength when his neck it was his neck Right Going through it. And then someone said to Dana we're doing this because we think you might have cerebral palsy. And they told Dana without me, and then Dana rang me on the phone just in pieces and I didn't. I didn't really know what to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Because, Ben, I don't know. I'd say to him a Ben a teacher. You see a lot of kids with a lot of different things. So, you're pretty hyper aware of what these things mean. Yeah, I just remember thinking it can't be true, like I don't know.
Speaker 1:Like, it's not what you have in your plan.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but at the same time, my life is perfect, yeah.
Speaker 1:Like I've got you know, like it's, it's, it's hard to describe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I think the first thing comes to your head is you don't know what it is and you don't know what it looks like yeah. So that's, that's the most difficult thing.
Speaker 1:And as a fixer, you just want to, you just want to fix it, and then it's like just about, I guess you know, adding to what you sort of said about being a teacher, I guess, like you know what that means for that child and what you want to do is help fix that. Yeah, you know, and I think we're really well placed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like like I'm a teacher, I suppose I'm well educated and well versed in what this means my wife is extremely well educated. She's got a master's in child development.
Speaker 1:So this is all excellent stuff to have on board, but at the same time.
Speaker 2:At the same time you don't see that coming. The thing, the biggest thing is I, my son is happy.
Speaker 1:My son is healthy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you never want to see difficulties in your child's life no matter what it is yeah. You don't want to see potential in their future for someone I don't know, treating the different.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And no one. The only time people have really noticed now is he wears an AFO, which is an external splint on his leg to make sure his leg is in the correct position so when he grows later in life he won't have to wear one. Yeah, He'll be short term wearing an AFO, but recently, like he's been wearing shorts because it's summer, it's getting into the summer. He's always worn it. He's just had long pants on. Yeah, and then people ask oh, did you hurt your leg, little fella?
Speaker 2:You know things like that and it's sort of like no no, no, he's just, he's got cerebral palsy and fine and the go-to thing and people are understanding. But that question is not a question that everyone gets asked.
Speaker 1:And you start to recognize that yeah.
Speaker 2:So, as a parent, a father, as a mother, we just yeah, we talk about it and make it normal, it is normal. Yeah, Like for me like he's he's type of cerebral palsy he hates people have and never get diagnosed. Yeah, but the fact that he's been diagnosed, with the fantastic healthcare we've got in Australia, and particularly with the people who surrounded ourselves with it, the impact on his life should be minimal. Hopefully, yeah, it will, yeah, so yeah, that's. Avan, I suppose, and he's a little legend. He's super intelligent, yeah, super.
Speaker 1:Always a smile on his face.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, and that's the thing. Like you could. This could go 50 ways Like he could have had intellectual difficulties, but he definitely does not. Yeah, he's super smart little fella. He's got great vocabulary, like he's. Yeah, we're really blessed the way he is. So yeah awesome yeah.
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Speaker 2:So, pregnancy number two, we wanted to get pregnant with a second child and we sort of thought that it'd be great for him and have a sibling on one of four, dana's one of four. So we were like, yeah, we'd like medium families, not, at least we got medium families. So we got pregnant and, when it was good, had all the anti-natal testing is it called prenatal? Wrong term, probably, but yeah, had the NIP tests. I came out perfect. Yeah, every single scam was perfect. Nothing was nothing was a raw. Everything was on track. And then, yeah, we, um, we lost that little girl at about, yeah, 13 weeks or I think it was around. We just told our friends.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Heartbreaking oh it's brutal, I think, because we had Aimen and then we were talking to people and I think the connection with Aimen was difficult, with traumatic birth, and Dana and I both connecting with him was not difficult, it's just different, like we wanted to do it better.
Speaker 2:We want to be more connected to her from get go. So we made the. We found out the gender. We never found out. With Aimen. We had given her a name and we taught only between Dana and I and we've only ever talked about her name. But we will. And so we taught about her name and we had all these plans and we really made a conscious effort to become connected to our baby. And then to lose her was yeah, it was horrendous, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can sympathize with you because Jaz and I went through something similar around the same time as well and I, you know, understand what courage it takes to talk about it as well, and just the fact that you are. I think it should be a topic that is talked about more often and somewhat normalised, because it is quite common. It's probably more common for you know, our partners as female to talk about it these days, but I think it's really important for us as males to share our feelings around it and I think that it's really important to, yeah, speak up about how we cope with it. If we're not and I don't think the grief stops once you then fall pregnant again or you know you use down the track is still something that you think about and probably pulls a few heartstrings still, still now, you know and will forever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it comes. It hits you when you get a special moment with your.
Speaker 2:If you've got another child, lucky enough to have another child might be a cuddly late at night and you look at them and they smile at you and then you think, oh crap, like would this what it could have been, that you realise what you don't have or what you've lost, or what could have been, yeah. So yeah, I think, like it's definitely it will always be really hard for Dana, I think, but not not in a way that it's just we love our kids, so it would have been fantastic.
Speaker 2:You know, like I think it's, it's just. Yeah, it is what it is. Yeah, I suppose.
Speaker 1:No for sure, yeah, and I think I think it affects us in different ways, like it affects the male differently to to obviously, what it would. You know for Dana to you, right, and it's, it's just like it is a tough time, I think because I, like, I know, for me I kind of would feel guilty if I felt upset. You know at that time, as stupid as that sounds, you know, because you're there to support your partner while she's she's the one going through it. So you know, I think it's, I think it's important once you can take a breath out of that is to have a chat with your mates and get the get the feelings off your chest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's really important to check in with your friends. I've got a really great group of friends like fantastic circle of friends. Like I couldn't like my friends more than I do. I've got some great mates Like I've got a diverse group of friends as well. I suppose I've gotten I sort of like to split my I don't like to.
Speaker 2:I've got friends in different realms you know, I ride with a couple of blokes all the time, and I really like talking to them about lots of stuff, and I've got work friends and I've got other friends that I've always been mates with since I was a kid, and they're all really good at checking in, yeah, I suppose, which is really nice. Got some rain mates. Got some running mates? Yeah, even though I may not run as much as they would like to, I think yeah. So those boys are good. You know there's there's consistency there of people checking in. I think the biggest thing, though, is like. I suppose, like you and I were talking when we were pregnant at the same time, and that's the pregnancy that we lost, and I think I told you like pretty early on, and we discussed it.
Speaker 2:So I'm a big person of like you need to tell certain people that you are pregnant early, so you have that support. Yeah, not to get excited about, but just to be their support with. Yeah, I think, like lots of people talk about, hey, don't tell you around the 12 weeks and people don't, and that's fine, that's more than okay. Yeah, you got to feel comfortable with what you're doing. Yeah, but I'm a talker. Yeah, and if something like that happened to me and I couldn't tell anyone or I had to tell them, I'd feel that difficult. Yeah, so I think I'm a talker. I don't think Dana is. Yeah, right, Like I think we're separate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and so yeah, I guess you know that's it. On miscarriage, I think you know, we know that it's a pretty heavy topic and we understand that us as fellas need to need to open up a little bit and chat. And you know, if you know a mate's going through something similar, check in on him, say good day and grab a beer and have a chat or something. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And don't be afraid to to to like as a male, why we divide that a lot. Like I check in on my mates, right, yeah, but if I know their wife really well, don't be afraid to say, hey, I hope you're doing okay, Like totally. Yeah, like don't, don't just leave that to your wife Like be a support.
Speaker 2:That should be a cross and we can't divide into male and female, husband, wife and partner and partner. That's a solid point. People need to know they're supported If they know you're aware of it and you are aware of it don't be afraid to say hey, I hope you're doing okay. Yeah, Like I really feel for you. Yeah, I think that's really important to show that there's solidarity across the realm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, and so going into the third pregnancy.
Speaker 2:Yep, that was a. That was an interesting one. So we'd obviously had a miscarriage. So we were hyper cautious and we got pregnant pretty soon after having having the loss. So we went there and we went, had scans. I think we had lots of scans because we were worried. Yeah, we had an obstetrician who was fantastic. He called us in early, had a scan, we were having a baby, we had another scan and we were having a baby. And then we were singing at home and Dana had a large bleed and it was just oh, we're going to here we go again, we're going to lose this one.
Speaker 2:So Dana went to the hospital and she had a scan and like no, you'll find the baby's there. There's a heartbeat, you're all good, come back on Monday and we'll do a proper scan and you go for proper scan. I think she went for a scan and I said okay, when you go, just give me your call on the way home and let me know that you're okay and let me know if it's all right. Anyway, so she goes to the hospital. I had A minute home. I hear the car come in the driveway and I hadn't had a call and my heart just sank. I remember just thinking, oh my God, like yeah, this is, we've lost the baby again. Like what are you going to do? And she walked in the door and said everything okay. And she sort of yeah, yeah, I think yeah, it's okay, yeah, and I was like what's going on? She goes well, they're both all right.
Speaker 2:And I was like what she's like. They're both all right. We're having twins and I. We didn't speak for a couple of hours, like going from thinking that you've lost one to gained one. I was just like we need a car.
Speaker 1:I was gonna say what was the first thing you googled.
Speaker 2:I remember, I remember googling. I don't think I even, no, I didn't even google anything.
Speaker 1:I just remember like she went on a car sales.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's just like cars, houses, like how are we gonna sell the house? Like it's not big enough, like, oh my God, like how much time we're gonna have to have off. Like we don't, our pram isn't the right one, like it. Just it resets everything. And it was scary for the first day or so, like not knowing, like I think we were 10 weeks, we were 10 weeks in and we didn't know. And then all of a sudden we were having twins. So yeah, and it was hectic, but, as as I said, we lost a little girl and we've got a little girl on our hazel. It was like she hung around. You know, that spirit hung around and we got two for one. So, yeah, we're really lucky, we're loving the bargain, oh God. But then your twins just complicates everything, mate, it's it's. It's really hectic. I've never had two kids, but I've had three.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah. Well, so that birth, is it any different to your first? Yeah, extremely yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, so twins is obviously more complicated. There's lots of complications there. So they ask you obviously natural vaginal birth? Yeah, so there's two options boys, isn't he? Go vaginal, and then you or your C's are.
Speaker 2:But with the sunroof we yeah, there's sunroof, so with the twins it was okay. What's the risks? And I think it was something like one in every 200th of the second baby born vaginally twins you have a chance of losing and like that's not a risk or willing to take and with the first birth not being so great, dana decided not.
Speaker 2:We decided, dana decided because it's her body and that's what you can do. You support your wife and whatever the decision is that, yeah, we'll go C's out. I was obviously. Dana asked me what I thought and I thought C's. It was probably the best option to simplify as it takes some stress away.
Speaker 1:So yeah, we went in and had a C's.
Speaker 2:I didn't have a C's, dana had a C's. It's interesting, it's different, and ours was like an emergency C's late at night. So yeah, it was rushed and quick and scary.
Speaker 1:And what kind of things, for Dana, I think, and for me it was just like well, we got twins, holy crap. Was there some complications for the? We were, they were born 36 weeks.
Speaker 2:no, they were 37, 36 and a bit weeks. So it's just size, yeah, how big. They were big for twins. So they were born at 2.6 and 2.8 kilos and most twins are like around the two marks, so they were going to be the same sizes. Aiman at 40 weeks and he was 3.8 kilos. So, yeah, that wasn't going to happen. Like they were bigger than him, they were like over. It was like five kilos of kid. Yeah, so, yeah. So we had the C's and then they were in special care for about want to say five days, yeah, and then we're out after seven. But they were born during a lockdown which was brutal.
Speaker 1:So our two year old Aiman couldn't visit.
Speaker 2:He couldn't come into the hospital. Yeah, so we were in hospital, no visitors. Yeah, aiman didn't see his mum for seven days, so that was hard, yeah, so yeah, they came out and they're perfect.
Speaker 1:And that pregnancy, to take a step back, and how is that any different to the first?
Speaker 2:Doesn't compare it's. It took its toll on Dana's body just visually. Like you're bigger, Like she's having twins, like it's double yeah, so I think that was hard. I know you probably best ask her that question. I think the way she dealt with it physically she probably better, because she knew what to expect yeah.
Speaker 2:And the fact that Aiman was back to back. Yeah, so that was brutally. Her back was wrecked the whole way through towards the end where these two even though there was more of them I don't think she felt that. Yeah, it's hard to say now, it feels like a long time ago, but yeah, it was different. It's definitely different. The biggest thing was more appointments.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lot more appointments.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have to go to a special scan for the twins so they can differentiate between the two. You can't you see an obstetrician more regularly? Yeah, there's lots more going on, a lot more blood tests and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, how's the juggle Three?
Speaker 2:It's a juggle. You don't have one in each hand. There's always one in the air, so it's, it's. Yeah, it is what it is. People say we look great, we're doing well, and I think we are. I think we're doing really well. Yeah, we laugh about it. It's hard. But, I think it all is yeah, I don't know different. If that makes sense, yeah.
Speaker 1:So a question that I would like to ask, lynchie, is that how is it that you advocate for your wife and children?
Speaker 2:I suppose, when you think about it in our context and what we've our marriage and our everything like that as a father for your wife, first of all during the pregnancy and during the birth, you're the mouthpiece for your wife. So I think you asked earlier about what was your birth plan. Yeah, our birth plan was to have a happy and healthy baby and have a happy and healthy wife at the end of it. So when you have a birth plan, dads you got to know what your wife wants and you got to advocate for them.
Speaker 2:You have to be that mouthpiece that could be in the most horrendous pain of their life. They may be turning to that animal. That's not. They don't know what's going on. You need to be aware of what they want and how things work before you go in. So you got to be part of the process.
Speaker 2:But yeah, being very verbal about it and saying, no, that's not what she wanted. This is the way we want things to go. Obviously, you can change. If things go, we're in a very sick way, let's go, but you need to be prepared. If you're not that kind of person, be prepared to be vocal and stand your ground on what you want. I suppose that leads to kids. I suppose with Aimen there was something wrong. At the start we went sure what?
Speaker 1:But as a parent, there's a special term for it. I can't remember the person's name, it's more about mothers intuition and fathers intuition.
Speaker 2:If you feel like something's not right, you need to advocate for more investigation and more investigation, and more investigation. And don't stop until you're comfortable. And don't stop until you've got the answers you want and the support you need. So, with Aimen. It was a long road and I suppose, throughout that process, depending on how your relationship works, ensuring that you are doing everything to support your partner, through that process, if something you're on the kid and making sure you're on track.
Speaker 2:So try not to detach yourself I suppose a little bit emotionally from it, and making sure that has a dad as the protector as the your insurance.
Speaker 1:Everything's occurring. Yeah, we've got a great healthcare system.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's not like you, should be massively out of pocket for this to happen. So people will be, but if you're saying, no, this isn't right, no, this isn't right, they will. Okay, let's see this other physio, that's, it is a T. Let's see this speechy. And you're expanding all this kind of stuff for me. They keep going through.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's super important when no one knows your child or your wife better than you either.
Speaker 2:So whether it's intuition, whether it's a connection you have with your child that nobody else has. But you know when something's not quite on the money. Yeah, could be when they're sick you know? Yeah, like always there in the side of caution. Yeah, like we've been hospital once today, but when he was he was sick, we did not was going on. And then you know, you see a pediatrician and you get the answer you want and you go home and you sleep well, knowing that your kids safe.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Your wife might have a little bit of a spotting or a bleeding when they're pregnant. Yeah, and they got on it. I know it too. Don't hospital.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it checked. Yeah, I'd be great for that. Yeah, that's what you need to do as a dad, yeah, and as a husband or partner.
Speaker 2:Wise words, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wise words. So I reckon, yeah, probably through to my next question, given that you've had probably more experience in such a short amount of time than most of us dads, what are some of your dad bod hacks or don'ts? You know what would be some words of wisdom to pass on? I think something that you've given yourself a virtual high five. Yeah, you're going fucking now that, oh, you've just gone, that I'm a shit dad.
Speaker 2:I Think the biggest thing is your expectation of what your life is gonna be like. Yeah, like as a dad. I remember vividly guys named stew and I think you won't mind me saying this. We're sitting at lunch at my, at my work, at my old work, and sitting there and someone another guy who's got four kids and Stu's got three, mick and stew and Mick just looked up and he said to me well, I think I said I was, I think we'll print it with a man and he said it just gets so much better when you accept your life is over. And then I looked over at Stu who was in the middle of about where I am now and he's eating tuna on cruskets Lunch. Looks up and goes, yeah, he's right, and I didn't know that meant and I sort of do.
Speaker 2:Now I suppose your life changes. You've got to accept that that party of life it's your life as you know it, as you know it is gone like it's over and it, when you Accept that it's different, it's he's better. So I think when I accepted that, hey, I'm like I surf a fish, I run, I love a beer, like I love all these things when I have, when I accept that my life is different now Not over, but different. I think that was the biggest thing. I sort of relaxed into being a dad.
Speaker 2:That was a massive difference, like I felt so good, but that takes time and a lot of. English and a lot of self-loading and a lot of oh my god. What am I?
Speaker 1:doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, I suppose, is that hack first of all, recognizing that your life's changed? Yeah, that's the biggest thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was a five recognize and accept. Yeah, you recognize very quickly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, acceptance is the hard thing, yeah, so that made me probably a better dad when I accepted that. The next thing is, I suppose it always like the old addicts like oh you know, you got three kids, you're the fourth. Yeah, you have to be the fourth, you have to be like the fun one you have to be uplifting and you have to be fun and positive and bring a good vibe into the house. Yeah, I think I try. We don't try and do that like purposefully, but I feel like our house is better when I'm healthy.
Speaker 2:Yeah you know, yeah, my mental mindset, yeah. So my wife, fantastic, and she knows that I'm pretty much like you, typical ADHD person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if I don't run ride, surf, laugh. I'm fucking with you on that, oh.
Speaker 2:I'm a bad person, yeah. So Dana's really good. She's like go for a run, all right. Good, and it could be like yeah, no, I was like 8 30, put the kids down and I was just all over the shop still massive day at work and she's like, I'm like I think I need to go.
Speaker 1:She's go for a yeah, so if you're an okay run at 8 30 and I got home and I was just a better person.
Speaker 2:Yeah so knowing yourself, yeah, accepting things have changed. And then I suppose the last thing is realizing that the most important job is your wife's. Yeah, Like I can't be actually anymore. Yeah, whatever you need to do to make your wife happy, yeah, you need to do, yeah, because happy wife, happy life is so true and it's hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was gonna say yes, is you said them done all the time?
Speaker 2:You don't know what it is half the time Like I don't know what she's thinking like. So you ask are we mine really like what do you want, darling? And you go suggesting and now that 90% of time no, yeah, do you want to go for drink with the girls? Like, yeah, do you know, for walk, start your classes, platties. You know, this one thing and they're 99% on this thing. No, yeah the 1% that they say, yes, he's everything, yeah and that's everything to them. So I think take night boys.
Speaker 2:Just do what you can, lads like. If they're happy, you're happy and the kids are happy, and and that's not because, oh, they're a woman yeah, it's not about that it's because they're at home with your kids, raising your most important asset. Yeah so why wouldn't you invest in?
Speaker 1:not totally the thing that's propagating that. Yeah, no, 100%. I could learn from that. I'm sure I'll do that and and probably on that. So there's obviously, you know, our separate hobbies and things that help us with mental clarity and, you know, make us happy and better human beings to be around. But there is also the intimacy in terms of Relationship as well, and the juggle with newborn twins and a toddler Like literally tearing apart your house yeah, you know what's your. Do you have any sort of hack or you know knowledge around how you guys manage that in terms of just your connection, you know, do you plan date nights? Do you? Do you have a calendar on your fridge or do you have a shared calendar? Like we do it? Yeah, we are. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I suppose, yeah, it's Dana and I, as a relationship is built around sarcasm. Oh what we don't take very too much, too serious. I think people will say I'm a very serious person Outside, people that say I don't know once we get to know you, maybe because I'm a teacher. I like, I suppose, well, you teach you, you're such a teacher. But I suppose Dana and I we don't take too much too seriously. We take the absolute mick out of our kids like to each other, like it's laugh like you know, and I think that's what has kept us intimately connected.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're still friends like the biggest thing is we're friends.
Speaker 2:Uh, date nights isn't near impossible. I feel like it's. I suppose we aim and have it. All these issues that led to sleeping issues and Feeding issues and getting trust issues and all these different types of things, and there's lots of different things. So come to several pauses as well and hemplagian particular behavioral things which I haven't exhibited, many but Us leaving him we didn't really want to leave him. So we've never really been away from him for a night. Yeah, right.
Speaker 1:That's just us, yeah, but we're happy like it.
Speaker 2:We're not. We don't crave it. I suppose every night we put the kids to bed we were pretty good routine wise. We've got an hour and a half together and that's our time. Yeah, we could be on our phones watching tiktok by ourselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or on instagram, watching videos or doing whatever, but that's our time together and making sure that we have that time together. It's super important. Share glass wine, glass bay leaves, glass scotch, whatever happen. Yeah, because we are into our cup of tea at the moment, which is, yeah, I, yeah, we've grandparents already, but, um, I think a lot of that, doing love that, and also I think what do they say? Distance makes the heart grow fonder, ensuring that you have time apart, so when you are together, you appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's super important. It's like a set making sure you do something individually.
Speaker 1:So when you?
Speaker 2:come back together. You've got something to talk about. Yeah right but all right, intimacy, I suppose it happens when it happens.
Speaker 1:In between feeds, in between shooting appies? Yeah, I don't even know. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. I suppose your level of intimacy changes. Yeah, depends what it is. Yeah again.
Speaker 1:I think it's like accepting the new normal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's not bad. No, no, it's just it is yeah, yeah, totally, mate.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much for coming on for a chat. I really appreciate the courage that it takes to talk openly and honest about, and just be vulnerable about, your experience. There's loads of great chunks of wisdom in this conversation, guys. So you know, listen up and take some notes and you know whether it's relationship, or you know being a dad, or you know in terms of advocating and supporting For your partner, there's loads of information here that you know will help assist other couples go through similar circumstances, or yeah. So I really appreciate your time to come on and and opening up.
Speaker 2:Thanks, mate.
Speaker 1:Thanks, lynchie. Thanks so much for tuning into this episode your bunch of legends. If you enjoy the show, could I please get you to show me some love by subscribing and leave a really nice review, also for loads of extras and to stay up to date with all things dad podcast. Head on over to at dad underscore podcast on instagram and give us a follow. Huge love to you all, daddy-os. Catch you soon.