As a teenager, stepping into parenthood is like hitting a surprise crossroad that reshapes every path ahead. Imagine navigating that, coupled with the dreams of a music career. Marcus Catanzaro joins us on the Dad Bodcast, giving us an unvarnished look at his life as a young father to his son Aiden, and the rhythm he found between his dual passions for music and fatherhood. His story unravels the complexities of co-parenting, the undercurrents of emotion when career calls for sacrifice, and the fortifying bonds of family that supported him through the turbulence of youth.
Buckle up for a candid tour through the trials of raising a child when society still sees you as one yourself. Marcus doesn't hold back in sharing the intricacies of his relationships and the growth that springs from open, heartfelt communication, even when tackling the tough topics with our children. Our exchange dances across the fine line of being a 'cool' parent while also opening up about the repercussions when your job takes you on the road, leaving spaces in the family fabric that can be hard to stitch back together.
Technology, that double-edged sword of our age, plays front and center as we converse about bridging the gap over long distances and connecting with a generation that checks your facts quicker than you can say 'Google'. Marcus's journey through fatherhood - from the streets of Sydney to the buzzing cityscape of Los Angeles - offers a potent mix of vulnerability, wisdom, and the relentless pursuit of understanding his son's world. His narrative, ripe with the challenges of co-parenting and adapting to a teenager's ever-evolving needs, encompasses the lessons, laughter, and love that cement the lifelong role of 'Dad'.
As a teenager, stepping into parenthood is like hitting a surprise crossroad that reshapes every path ahead. Imagine navigating that, coupled with the dreams of a music career. Marcus Catanzaro joins us on the Dad Bodcast, giving us an unvarnished look at his life as a young father to his son Aiden, and the rhythm he found between his dual passions for music and fatherhood. His story unravels the complexities of co-parenting, the undercurrents of emotion when career calls for sacrifice, and the fortifying bonds of family that supported him through the turbulence of youth.
Buckle up for a candid tour through the trials of raising a child when society still sees you as one yourself. Marcus doesn't hold back in sharing the intricacies of his relationships and the growth that springs from open, heartfelt communication, even when tackling the tough topics with our children. Our exchange dances across the fine line of being a 'cool' parent while also opening up about the repercussions when your job takes you on the road, leaving spaces in the family fabric that can be hard to stitch back together.
Technology, that double-edged sword of our age, plays front and center as we converse about bridging the gap over long distances and connecting with a generation that checks your facts quicker than you can say 'Google'. Marcus's journey through fatherhood - from the streets of Sydney to the buzzing cityscape of Los Angeles - offers a potent mix of vulnerability, wisdom, and the relentless pursuit of understanding his son's world. His narrative, ripe with the challenges of co-parenting and adapting to a teenager's ever-evolving needs, encompasses the lessons, laughter, and love that cement the lifelong role of 'Dad'.
Howdy ho, daddy-os, and welcome to the Dad Podcast. This is brought to you by myself, kyle Graham. This is a place where all types of dads, or dads to be, can tune in copygear or learn something new about life as a parent. Follow along as we interview dads of all types and undercover some wisdom to help us be the best dads and partners we can be. So get comfy and listen in your big deals, because the next episode of the Dad Podcast is about to go down G'day. Your big bunch of legends.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much for tuning in for another episode of the Dad Podcast. I'm so stoked to have you guys around and putting up with my blabbering voice. So, yeah, today I'm really excited to have on my good mate, marcus Catanzaro. He's going to share with us his journey to fatherhood. It's very different to the dads that we've already had on the podcast. So, yeah, I'm super pumped to share his story and also share with us what it's like to travel the world, managing and, you know, being just an all-round musician genius for some of the world's most renowned musicians.
Speaker 1:In terms of good humans, you don't get much better than Marcus. I've had the absolute pleasure of knowing him for a good part of my life and he's always been there for me and he's always been so generous with his time and whatever he can do for his mates, he's always there. Yeah, so really stoked to have him on and share his story. So, mate, the purpose of this potty is to provide perspective from all walks of dad, so I'm encouraging all of our guests to speak up and share their experience with the greater good of dads being better dads and partners. I'm so pumped to have you on and for you to join the Dad Bod gang man sharing dad's shit from your perspective. Let's just kick it off with like a bit of an intro into who you are, poppy.
Speaker 2:Oh, I am Marcus Gutanzaro, now 34 year old man, originally from Western Sydney and now living in Los Angeles, california. I am a touring guitar tech and tour manager working for a bunch of bands.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so, marcus, your journey to fatherhood was a bit different to mine. You can tell us a little bit about how Aiden came along.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was about 15 years different to yours.
Speaker 2:So I became a father at a very young age. I found out I was going to be a dad at age 16. You know, it's kind of hard to even talk about when I found out, I guess because I was so young, plus the kind of shock of it all obviously being, you know, a teenager and funny, you're going to become a father. So a lot of it is kind of a blur, to be honest, which I know is not overly helpful. But yeah, I found out at age 16 that I was going to become a dad. Aiden was born when I was 17. And, yeah, I've been a dad obviously ever since. It was a bit of a shock.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so like when, like it's a bit of a blur as it is in how you maybe coped with it and whatever at the time. But then, once Aiden had come along, like how was that flicking that switch from being party markers, punk rock enthusiast, to well being both, you know, being dad and yeah it was totally no, it wasn't switched because you know whether you're 16 or you're 30 or you're 50, and you become a father I or a mother for that matter.
Speaker 2:But for the second podcast, the father you automatically have a responsibility, right. And then 99% of us that do become parents instantly have this kind of innate ability to provide for our children, which our whole mentality to become nurturers and carers, you know. So, when Aiden came along as much as I don't remember the specifics of how it felt, I do know that it changed me massively in the sense of, like, all of a sudden, things became a little bit more clear. You know, like if I was to say in music, as you know, I still. You know, I worked in music back then as well, and I guess the point of music for me then was like I play in a band, as you said, I party and I get to go on the road with my friends, whatever.
Speaker 2:It was more of a dodging a real job at that time, and for me at that time it was like cool, I have a son now. If I want to work in music, I have to work out a way to monetize this and make this a career, and I have to have a way out of it if I need to. So you know, when Aiden was born, I did take a little bit of a break from music and I went and got a plumbing apprenticeship. And you know, I did get those things that your parents always tell you to have to fall back on, because it was a reality. Like you know, I didn't want to be the father of a 10 year old or a 12 year old and have no career and, you know, be struggling trying to find myself. So it did flick that switch of responsibility pretty quick.
Speaker 1:And you're not with Aiden's mom anymore.
Speaker 2:No, and you know, surprisingly, one of the things that I did have the foresight I guess to when Aiden was born.
Speaker 2:I wasn't with his mother then either, and I remember clearly at the time thinking that it was going to be hard enough to be a young father, but to put the added pressure becoming a partner of someone because of something that happened wasn't the right thing, and I can remember thinking, you know, for Aiden, if he was born into this life, of having kind of two families, two separate families it worked together to raise him, as opposed to being born into a family that was perhaps constructed around him, that didn't necessarily have the foundations or the stability to make it his whole life.
Speaker 2:That would mean then he faces divorce, which you know I'm lucky enough not to have had parents who have been divorced. I know it's a pretty, pretty common thing, but it's a pretty tough thing for a child of any age. So I'm super grateful that for some reason I had that foresight, and it wasn't always easy, but I always pushed the dual parenting thing and it's worked out amazing, Very lucky. Aiden's mom's an incredible mother and he lives with her full time and she's done such an amazing job of raising our son, so I couldn't be more grateful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I absolutely. He's turned into a beautiful young man, that's for sure. Yeah, An adult, yeah. So when Aiden's mom told you she was pregnant, like how did that conversation go down? And what were you know? Did you guys throw around options of terminating, or was it just like, no, we're having having this.
Speaker 2:No, we actually didn't, man, you know, I don't, I don't know what the age demographic of your show is or is going to be, and I guess it doesn't matter at the age, but you know, at the age of 16, I think that there was more denial going around than acceptance, especially for Aiden's mother, and you know by the time that I think we kind of officially realized that it was happening. It was happening. You know, like we were, we were pretty far and then Aaron actually never really showed the whole times she was pregnant, to be honest. So you know, we were pretty deep into it when we found out. So the whole idea of terminating was never really an option.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I definitely think that people in my sorts of situations of you know, children being born into separate relationships or separated relationships sort of I think termination is a very valid tool. You know it's a big topic at the moment, even in America, with Texas spanning it. You know ridiculous shit like that, and I think there is definitely a discussion to be had where that is a useful tool. In my situation it wasn't really an option and thankfully because it. You know, I don't know. Well, I don't know what I would have done back then if there was an option. I guess like the logical answer is you're too young to have a child, but If I look at it now as a 34 year old man, I owe everything to that kid. I really do. Not only is he my best friend now and I call him when I need to talk between him and my wife and my family like they're who you should support, but like all the decisions I made in my life were given kind of clarity because I became a father and that responsibility thing ticked in.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I would never change it now it's cool perspective, what I know, yeah. And then so you know, moving along from when you found out, I guess, to supporting Aaron through the pregnancy and things like that. Obviously, at such a young age you would have just been like what is going on, right?
Speaker 2:Like yeah, you know it's crazy and, I guess, something that I'm somewhat ashamed of but also, I guess, is important to talk about for the sake of this podcast others is that I only saw Aaron after she told me she was pregnant when I was a kid. I only saw her one time before Aiden was born. So I did freak out and actually, funnily enough, I ran away from home, basically, and lived with a friend of ours, tristan Dower. I lived with his family because I just, I don't know, I didn't know how to process it. I have an incredibly amazing supportive family. My mum was.
Speaker 2:You know, it must be such a hard thing to hear as a parent that your child is going to have a child. My mum was incredible, but you know, and my father is a little bit more traditional, he's Italian, so you know, his ideas of how to deal with and process the situation were very different to mine. So I did feel that there was a lot of stress on the situation and that kind of led me to fleeing. Yeah, and funnily enough, like I guess, I've never really even spoken about it.
Speaker 2:But when I did go to Tristan's house you know, he is a friend of both of ours, his dad is a therapist and I don't know if he actually knew the whole time that I was hiding from something or not, but like between his amazing mother and father, like I really do think I kind of got, you know, counseled daily at the dinner table, by metaphor, you know, in a lot of ways, and I think that eventually we spoke about it, tristan's dad and I and I went home and dealt with it and I saw Aaron the week before she was, you know, due to good birth, and then even was born. So you know, it's such a different process to what you've been through or what a lot of people have been through, but it's not uncommon you know, and it is a lot to take on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know I do. I do say I feel ashamed because I would have loved to have had a slightly different story in that regard. But you shouldn't be ashamed, you know, like it is a fucking lot to take on and it's stressful and it's anxious to anyone at any age, so let alone, you know, a 16 year old 100%, mate.
Speaker 1:You hit an Allen head. You shouldn't be ashamed. But I guess, from your perspective, is that if there was something that you could change, that would be it, you know, and so you can't help to have that bit of guilt, you know, or whatever it is. Yeah, so was Aiden born naturally or was he Cezarian?
Speaker 2:He was born naturally and actually the most natural of all naturals, because the Bapool is born in Western Sydney and the Bapool Hospital and after hours they don't have and then meet the test on. So for Aaron, just like my bare knuckle.
Speaker 1:I had no choice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he was born, you know, early in the morning, so nothing, but you know, laughing gas, basically.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then so in those in those very early years not being with Aaron but then wanting to just, you know, obviously have a lot of involvement in Aiden's life, like, how did you juggle that as as like sort of co-parenting?
Speaker 2:That was pretty hard. I spent the first like year or two. I'd, you know, sleep on the floor at Aaron's house a lot. I was pretty adamant that in the first two years I needed to be there as much as possible. You know, because that's such important time in parenting where that child develops that you know the bond, and I guess that you know maternal or paternal thing, with the parents. So you know I'd go to work as a plumber at that time, I believe. And then, you know, I'd come straight back to Aaron's house and sleep on the bedroom floor. She was living with the parents and her parents were always really generous and amazing. So I spent a lot of time with Aiden and that was, you know, a huge reason for the career change. You know I didn't want to be trying to be on tour with some punk bands somewhere in the world, you know, when I had a one or two year old son.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah. And then so when we're like some of the moments that you had during that time where you felt maybe a little bit overwhelmed, or like when you're going like fuck, I'm in way over my head here, or was there times where you've gone like, yeah, I'm nailing this. Yeah, like fucking down of the year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I said, it's kind of hazy, but I don't remember ever feeling over my head with parenting. I do actually recall that being a point of contention with Aiden's mother, because she at times, quite naturally, like a lot of mothers, do go through, you know, postnatal kind of issues and I think that she felt a lot of stress and she was quite concerned about it. And you know, I kind of recall having the attitude that I have to pretty much everything in my life is like let's just get it done. You know like it's going to be okay, like nothing bad can come from nothing bad. So I don't recall being over my head and saying that.
Speaker 2:You know, it's so important to note that like I moved back in or was living with my mom and dad at the time of Aiden's birth and like I in no way shape or form would have the same story if I didn't have my parents and even my siblings. You know like that meant I could go to work stress-free and earn money. And if Aiden was sick and he was at my house and I was alone as a parent, my mom would be like, oh well, this is this or you know, you should check out this and you know, basically coach me through parenting and I had this discussion all the time, kyle, about parenting that if you go back in time, most of societies it was more normal to become a parent at the age of 17, 18, 19. And you did that whilst living at home with your parents and then you went off to work with grandparents with the child, you know, and that was actually quite normal and as an adult looking back on it, it does make so much sense because, you know, I'm 34 now and I can't even imagine having a child right now, like I have so much going on and so many career changes and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:And Aiden's, you know he's 16 now, he's turning 17. So he doesn't need that level of care from me. Well, not in the same way. You know the time presence thing, so it kind of does work out in a strange way. You do have, you know, if you're lucky enough to have your parents around to coach you and stuff, and there's actually kind of, in some ways, less stress than if you were a parent at, say, when you became a parent.
Speaker 1:It's, yeah, really interesting thought, and I couldn't agree more, because, I mean, jaze and I we moved up from Sydney up here and obviously away from our family and all that sort of thing too, and once we had children there were so many times where we're like, could you guys please come up like for a week or so and just like just to have that check out? That's support. Oh yeah, yeah, support Like yeah, it's really cool, cool way to think about it, I guess. So then, moving on with, like, I guess, your career and you've gone from plumbing how long did that last? And then, and then you were, like you know, drawn back to your passion for music, so I was always still doing music when I was plumbing, but I just wasn't actively kind of touring.
Speaker 2:I had a really cool boss at the time who would let me, you know, take Thursday, friday off to be able to do four day tours and stuff like that. So I still worked in music. I've never really stopped working in music officially but I did that. And then after I finished plumbing I took a job at a booking agency, start kind of working my way back into music. But I guess at that point I didn't think that playing in a band was enough. It is for some people, it's not for me. You know, financially it wasn't going to be a great kind of long term plan.
Speaker 2:So I started working in a booking agency to kind of expand my knowledge of the industry. And you know, it's funny, I didn't love that job. It was pretty brutal, the hours were hard, it was, and that was one of the hardest times to be a dad because I would come home and you know I'd miss Aiden, I'd already be asleep and that kind of stuff. But so much of what I do now in Turing I can relate back to that one job. Like you know, brett Murray, my boss at the time, is now the head of William Morris in Australasia books every band I work for, you know, including Fleetwood Mac. So it's funny that those things there's like mundane times, you've got a lot but you think they make no difference and you hate them. How much effect they actually have, you know, let's see years go on.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, so I started working as a bookie agent and I guess as Aiden got older, bit by bit, I felt it was kind of more.
Speaker 2:I guess acceptable is not the right word, but I felt more comfortable stepping away from Aiden for two days at a time, three days at a time, four days. So my timeshare as a parent, you know, went from five or four days, three days a week or whatever it was, to weekends. Then it was every second weekend and that was as much for Aiden as it was for us. You know, his mother and I decided that as Aiden got to be four and start school at five and you know, develop friendships and stuff, like we couldn't be taking him away to someone else's house like 40 minutes or 30 minutes away every weekend. It was a lot. You know he needs that time at home to develop friendships and you know, play soccer and local sports, whatever it is that he's doing. So I suppose that with the, you know, progression of that phase of his life meant more time to kind of go back to music and focus on my career.
Speaker 1:Once you're at that stage and Aiden's at school and all that sort of things, I guess comes a whole lot of new stresses as a dad and I know it's something that scares the absolute shitty out of me, because Miles is going to he's starting school next year. But have you guys ever had to have a discussion with Aiden around bullying or yeah, just like coping with things like that at school? Because I remember what it was like for us to be at school and I know how it was, so yeah, it scares the shit out of me.
Speaker 2:It is scary. You know you, you don't want to have the jerk kid at school and you don't want to have the kid getting picked on at school. You know, and I unfortunately bullying is this horrific thing that occurs in the human race, even still as adults in the workplace, and stuff like that. I don't know where it comes from, what it is, but you know it is unfortunately. It's natural things. So with Aiden, I have always discussed it with him about. You know what our ethics and our beliefs are toward human beings and other human beings and you know you are no better than someone else and you know everybody has different strengths and you know all those kind of lessons you learn as a child.
Speaker 2:I guess Aiden's probably more likely this sounds bad, but more likely to be on the bullying side than the bullied side. You know, I think your child's naturally going to go one way or another where they're there and introvert or an extrovert or whatever. Aiden's very outgoing, thankfully, he really has an easy time making friends and he's very personable, which is great. But then you do run the risk of like I don't. I honestly, I'm sure every parent would say, but I truly believe that Aiden doesn't possess the ability to become a bully and to be horrible to another person. However, you can't control who your kids can be friends with, right? So it's not that far of a reach to suggest that you've ended up in a group that are being horrible to kids from that Australia. Yeah, totally so. Yeah, it's an important discussion, and discussion we do have all the time, even now. As an adult, you know we talk about all sorts of things, but that is one thing that we talk about all the time.
Speaker 1:Is there anything in particular that he's like mentioned to you over the years? That was quite challenging, Like just through that whole school life when it was like girl issues, boy issues, whatever you know. Like was it?
Speaker 2:Nothing's been crazy. Challenging. His mother and I had very different I guess you know ethos when it comes to how we're going to parent, and that probably has a large or a large part of that is because I'm not a full time parent, meaning I don't have no time custody of Aiden like she does, and I think it's really difficult to be a day to day parent and then be the cool parent as well you know, but I do possess the ability and my wife Shawnee also to be able to kind of call and be a little bit cooler and a little bit more hip and you know and understand things, which I think was a point of conflict for his mother and I for long time.
Speaker 2:You know, I guess I don't want to speak out of line, but I guess, like to some degree it was jealousy from her part, of like why do you get to be the cool guy and I have to be the discipline, you know, type thing? So I've always had this ability to have like very upfront, almost like friend to friend, peer to peer kind of conversations with Aiden, and we have them a lot. You know, like I, when Aiden turned 13, I had just started working for Fleetwood Mac and so I'd been on this huge world tour. You know this. We were on tour for nearly two and a half years and they were, like you know, normally when you tour in an Australian band, for example, you're away for like maybe a month and you come home, and then you're a month and come home Fleetwood Mac, because it was predominantly in the US and North America I was away for five and a half months at a time when Aiden was 13, you know, arguably the most important time of his life and you know you could talk on the phone and FaceTime and we play Xbox and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:You can do all the things, but face to face is totally different, right? So I flew home on one of the breaks and took Aiden away camping, just him and I, and that was like a hugely imperative time where I could just sit down with him, you know, and talk about things like sex and drugs and respect and how to treat women, how to treat your peers, and things like that. And I think that was a pretty huge point in his life. Like I felt it coming, you know, based on what we were talking about day to day.
Speaker 1:Is that something that I brought up, or was it something that you kind of felt the time was right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, he didn't bring it up, it wasn't like you know. We sat down at the table and said, hey, can you tell me about sex? You know, yeah, but I could tell that his interests sparked in, you know, females. In my case, or in our case, I could tell that he was more aware of how he looked and what he was wearing. You know, all of a sudden, brand name clothes and you know things like that became a thing, and I think that I'm sure it's different with a, with a teenage girl. But with a teenage boy around that age of 13, I think you can really feel that point of difference of like, trying to push boundaries and trying to, you know, work out who he is and what's coming.
Speaker 2:So yeah we had a huge talk and I, like I said, I have very transparent kind of nature with Aiden, you know where I told him like I've done drugs in my life and I've obviously had, you know, sex with people outside of my you know the one of my partner and I've had, you know, these experiences in life and I've tried to divulge into crude detail but like explain that you know, this is the thing that all of my friends that are his uncles, people like you, you know we've all been through and we've all done and it's okay and it's not about whether you do it or not, it's about how you deal with it when it happens. So, trying to really push that ethos around that, yeah, that's really cool.
Speaker 1:It's quite a different conversation that we're having this time around. You know, like the people that we've had on the party, you know like kind of new dads and all that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:So it gives like fresh perspective and, yeah, and I'm sure I do help a lot of people that are like listening in and have older you know I have, so it is really terrifying, because I don't think there is a right or wrong answer and I think that, ultimately, if your kids going to go through some shit, they're going to go through some shit like I sure as hell did, like I became a father at 16, you know, I lost my license at 16, I crushed my car through my parents house when I was 16.
Speaker 2:I was busted with drugs, you know, for a little while.
Speaker 2:It's just, you know all that kind of stuff and I'd like to think that I came through it and they're all parts of you know, what created me as a person today.
Speaker 2:So you know, I don't know what the right way to do all those things is with a child. You know I'm still learning every day but I guess, especially with my wife and I, we both have a very open door policy with Aidan and we believe that he can tell us anything and not be judged ever, and I think that we've developed that as our bottom line and that's something I really have worked on over time. I think that there was definitely a time where, when Aidan was, you know, 10 to 13, where I was quite judgmental, you know, with what he wore or if he didn't look like the way I looked when he dressed, or, you know, like there's this weird phase where, like, they go from a kid like a little doll that you dress up and they do what you do to developing their own, and it's going to be hard to not, you know, to not feel that indifference, to not feel that kind of judgment for most of your own child it's really difficult, yeah, especially when for so long, they've just kind of gone.
Speaker 1:Well, dad's dressing me. This is how I look. You know, this is yeah, yeah. And now, all of a sudden, they're making their own decisions and it's like, yeah, I forget. And.
Speaker 2:I'm learning that like right now I would say that's been a huge thing. I've learned in parenting like I think that I always thought that I have to know more than Aidan and I have to know better and I have to know the details or something more than he should or something. And now I've really learned that, like I have a very intelligent son who is really like the things he's into, is really into and he really loves knowing everything about them. And like now there are so many discussions that I think previous I would have been like oh well, no, like this is how it is, but like always have a rebuttal. And now I'm the last year I've really learned to just stop and listen and now, like I find it, I learn more regularly from him than I used to. It's actually quite tough. Yeah, your ego is naturally like but I'm your dad, I should. Yeah, you don't want to be.
Speaker 2:Remember that ad. Remember, like the kid asking I don't know, it's like insurance ad about the why did they build the gravel with China? And the dude's like to kick rabbits out or something. Remember that shitty ad. It's always stuck with me Because that happens at the time when your kids like yeah, you kids like why don't they do that? And you're like I don't know Because of this, and you just like throw something out there, you know. And then the order you can get, the more you kids like I call bullshit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's not true.
Speaker 2:And then it gets to the next phase of like no, you're wrong, actually it's this.
Speaker 1:I'm like shit, yeah, really, because they got Google like in their hand and then just like, well, I'm going to check up on you dad.
Speaker 2:And then you learn to stop saying shit and you're like I have no idea, please tell me why. Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 1:You're going to do some research and come back to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, yeah, that's been a pretty interesting phase of parenting that I'm at at the moment, this episode of the dad podcast, along with almost every day of my life, is fueled by Blackboard coffee roasters. The crew of Blackboard coffee roasters have set out with the aim of educating people about coffee when and who the beans come from, how they're roasted and what to look for when you're drinking a brew. All you coffee addict dad bod listeners will be stoked to know that I have a little DC code to sweat in your next coffee purchase and to dad bod 10 at the checkout for a 10% off discount If you're looking for a little bit more. I personally love the value in setting and forgetting a coffee subscription. The boys at Blackboard offer a huge 20% off every coffee order and free shipping across Australia with every order over 30 bucks. Join up for a prepaid subscription or set and forget with the pay as you go option with no locking obligations. Reach out to the boys on insta at Blackboard coffee or blackboardcoffeecom to find out more Blackboard coffee. Good coffee, good people.
Speaker 1:Now back to the show and so, obviously, your living overseas. How do you sort of manage time with Aiden, is it? Like you know, you just do a lot of phase time. Like you said, you kind of play some video games with him. Is that like a scheduled time, or do you guys just do it whenever, like when it works?
Speaker 2:No, you know again, like such a learning phase of being a parent when you know anyone who listens that has a teenage child will totally identify that there comes a time where you realize that they don't really want to talk to you and they don't really want to hang out with you and, like you know, I always get the line you must be such a cool dad because you're so young and you're working music, and it's like, no, there is no such thing as a cool dad.
Speaker 2:Literally doesn't exist. So you or me, we could be like we're quite cool dads. Yeah, you were a snapback, yeah, Um, but that's that doesn't exist. There's not a thing. You know, you're still a dad and you're still lame, and Aiden rolls his eyes at me as much as you know the science teacher dad, who's 70. Yeah, Um so um, yeah.
Speaker 2:So as they get older, they don't want to spend time like, they want to hang out with their friends and they do, you know, want to be on social media or claim video games or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So when that started to happen was when I moved overseas. I think that I felt for the first time in my life that it was okay to not be there as much as I used to be, which I guess is an ongoing theme through my life of you know. I stayed in Sydney, living in Sydney longer than I probably wanted to, and I said no to a lot of international touring early in my career because I didn't feel it was right. That's apparent. I wasn't there yet and Aiden wasn't there yet. Then I moved to Melbourne and that was like kind of my first interstate move to test the waters of can I be away every second? You know I had Aiden every second weekend at that time and could that work? You know I'd fly back every second week and whenever I could, you know, test the water that way. And then I moved to Western Australia, which was even further and it was more of a progression. It was like, okay, cool, now I'm gonna see you once a month maybe, you know, and we tested the waters that way. And then you know, finally, obviously now um, living in Los Angeles, and so every time we've taken a step and evaluated how that's affected Aiden, how we dealt with it and how we built these new, you know, methods of staying in contact. So here in LA we talk you know he's turning 17. So he's on his phone all the time. So we can FaceTime, which we do, you know, two, three times a week and we text message a lot, like most days, a couple of times.
Speaker 2:And then my wife, shawnee, works in gaming. She works for Activision, the gaming company, and you know I'd always played Xbox at home with Aiden and play FIFA and stuff. And she was kind of like well, I don't think I'd ever even played games online, like I'm not a huge gamer, and she was like, well, seems like a huge missed opportunity. Like Aiden is always online, like, so she added him first as a friend because she plays games, and she's like he's always online, like you should just play with him and his friends. And she was totally right. Like that was such a huge you know amount of hindsight to get up Like, holy shit, there's all this opportunity to sit and talk to my kid and be into something that he's into. Yeah, so now, to be honest, the most I speak to Aiden is when we play FIFA or something online.
Speaker 2:And Parenting Hack 101 is that kids don't want to talk on the phone, right Like you feel like you're drawing blood from the stone with the house. How's that? When they play computer games they just talk without thinking because they can't, because they're concentrating on something else. And I found out more in two years about Aiden's life playing video games than I have on the phone or in person by far. And you know I owe that massively to my wife, shawnee, and you know she she'll kind of speak to him of the video games and they remain close and they remain, you know, in a great space in their relationship because of video games. So I think adapting things like that is a huge way that movie overseas worked.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and again, I feel like parents like you, all you hear about is is like oh, my kids, it's always on the video games. Like, like, I just wish you'd go outside. Yeah, it's such good hindsight to be like, why don't I join him and and jump on? You know, and it's probably one of those things that you were saying earlier about you know, the way Aiden was dressing and things like that. It's like just accepting and letting it roll.
Speaker 2:you know, like because so many parents are fighting that you know.
Speaker 2:And the second you try to put down what they're doing. Like you need to stop and check yourself and realize how much you sounded like your parent when they pissed you off the most, like stop doing this, why can't you do that, you know, and you're like I am doing what I love, like shut up, like let me, you know, and then I, you know, you check yourself. You're like, holy shit, like I do just sound like my parent and that's something I actively try to fight, not because I had a bad upbringing and my dad's incredible, but because I would like to be more open and understanding of you know of who Aiden is and who he's becoming.
Speaker 1:And there were the things that pissed you off. So why wouldn't it piss Aiden off? Exactly, it's the same thing, right?
Speaker 2:And you know, the video games thing is crazy, man, because we, you know, like I'll play like Call of Duty, for example, with Aiden and three of his buddies. And you know, just last week, when I got home from tour, I was playing with them and one of his buddies was like, oh hey, you know, have you broken up with, you know, talking to his buddy? And his buddy was like no, I haven't, I don't know what to do. And so Aiden's friend was like Marcus, what should he do? And so Aiden's friends like open this discussion about one of Aiden's friends breaking up with his little girlfriend, you know, at the age of 16. And it meant that I could open this dialogue and I had this opportunity to kind of like to speak to the group. You know about it. And obviously that here has huge effect on my son, without it being like a son sit down and talking about your life thing. So, yeah, those kind of like bizarre methods of parenting. It's such a 2021 conversation but it's a reality, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, man, that's so. Yeah, I would never have even thought about that. You know, like, and yeah, that's such a rad thing to witness because you just think like, oh, I'm going to be in the car one day with these mates and they'll like, those things will drop, but they don't, they don't anymore, you know, they just they keep to themselves and yeah, they hide it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean you might be lucky enough, like when I was back in Australia during COVID, you know, I booked a house up near Aiden and spent every day with him for, you know, six weeks, seven weeks, and I drove him and his buddies to parties and the weekend and stuff. And I did catch, you know, some of those conversations and we did. You know we were able to talk about things, which is really cool. But if you are not a full-time parent, like I'm not, those opportunities are few and far, you know, and you want to be able to, like, as a father, you want to be able to offer those points of advice because they're really imperative to the development of the kid.
Speaker 1:Hmm, do you think because you aren't the quote unquote full-time parent that Aiden feels like you sort of said, like you're the cool dad. Do you think that he feels a lot more comfortable asking you those things? Or you know, like yeah.
Speaker 2:I think it's a combination of. He knows that we will never judge him. I honestly think that he didn't 100% feel that way about me, but ever since Shawnee, my wife, has been in his life, he now knows that she would kick my ass if I cast judgment. She's incredible and she's so neutral and she is like my goal of being understanding and listening to others, and so I think he feels that now. But also he just thinks like he can tell me more things and get away with them, like there's not going to be an immediate punishment, like if he tells his mother something that she doesn't, like she could tell him he can't go out tomorrow or next weekend. Obviously I can too, but he knows that that's not really my role in parenting. You know he has a stepfather and mother at home who pushed that side of things more. Like I said, you know we have very different types of parenting and over the years we've adapted how we're going to co-parent and what we both bring to the table and that's a huge thing. Like I don't know if this is off topic to your question, but that is a huge thing to anyone who is in separated relationships, because it hasn't always been easy.
Speaker 2:You know, I went to a bunch of therapy when I was about seven or eight, so I was in my early 20s. I just had extreme amounts of guilt that I was never a good enough father and I, you know, I would go on tour and I'd miss a weekend within and I don't think I realized it was eating me away. And then one day I'd moved to Melbourne and I was really struggling with how to be a father, you know, and I went and saw this amazing doctor in Melbourne and he was just so, I guess, knowledgeable or wise in what a parent does you know who's a father himself? And he worked in family counseling for a long time and he kind of just opened my eyes to like what we all perceived to be a father is kind of naturally like he's going to be here day in, day out. He's going to do this Like we have this preconceived kind of notion. And he basically, over a matter of weeks, sat down and broke down all the things that I was currently doing in my life to be a you know, to be a supportive, incredible father that I guess I didn't think about because I felt that they were outweighed by the time I was faced with Aiden. So that was a huge turning point in my parenting and even you know, my relationship with Aiden's mother hasn't always been incredible.
Speaker 2:I think that there was a lot of how to say, a lot of blame and a lot of misplaced anger toward each other's situations. You know, I felt she was incredibly lucky that she had Aiden all the time and didn't have to go to work and had, you know, financial support as well as you know, child support coming from me, government assistance. She got to this be a parent. And to me that's what you know I missed the most, that's what I missed out on. And to her, I was out gallivanting and living this free life, you know, doing what I wanted, and we had this real, like couple of years of real misplaced anger toward each other and it made parenting quite difficult and it made for some pretty anxious kind of feeling days. And I think I even said to you I was at the airport in Australia when you told me about the podcast that said to you like when I started kind of going through that phase of my life like I had little to no advice to get from people you know like and there wasn't a lot of resource.
Speaker 2:There's so much about being a single mother but more often than not it's assumed that the fathers run away and bailed and left, you know, this mother or whatever the situation is. But to be a co parent, father, and to want to father as much as the mother, there's not really a resource for that and it's actually really difficult to find out how it works. We don't have the same support networks and you know I remember saying to you about this podcast that it's incredible because you know I wish that there was a father's group that could get me through that time period. I mean, even when Aiden was young, I had to go through mediation with his mother, which is just kind of not because we hated each other, but a formality to setting up how your child support will work and your time share.
Speaker 2:And I literally was a, you know, a 20 something year old kid in a room full of women who hated men, like fucking hated men, and I already was anxious enough and you know I felt obviously unsure about so many things in my life and to be thrown into a system of, you know, people who had been let down by men, and I was kind of in the room, just I remember feeling like I'm not.
Speaker 2:I don't agree with what these women are saying at all and I'm not trying to. I don't want it to sound like an us versus them type thing. No, no, no, because it's not. But it does suck. That, you know, unfortunately, because of the way society is, and more often than not it is the case that the women are done by or are left, you know, to be solo parents or whatever. More often than not. I hope that's not a generalization now, but I think that's still the case. So you kind of find yourself, you know, second to the generic situation and it's not tailored at all for us, you know, for men to be parents.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think you, like you, sort of hit the nail on the head with just saying it's an assumption. It's like that's immediately where their thought goes. That's what, that's how it's going down. You know, Marcus is flaring to the left, even some of the questions.
Speaker 2:I remember them being like well, you know you're going to have to do this. I'm like, no, I'm here because I want to do that. In fact, I would like to do more. Like I want to pay more than I need to pay in child support. I'd like to pay for this extra stuff too, because I think this is really important. And like I actually want more time with my I'm not asking for less time with my kids. Like like I'm not trying to get out of anything. I'm in fact here to help you, enrich me and encourage me to be able to do more. You know.
Speaker 2:And like the counselor I had in that one specific meeting, like it's still kind of traumatized me, like she was horrible and she just didn't believe that that was true. Another example of that is that we went to a when Aidan was little. His mother was having issues with him sleeping, so went to like a sleep doctor you know, which I know a lot of people would go to when I've been to and the lady running the kind of clinic, she just hated me from the second I walked in and I'd never had issues with Aidan sleeping when he was at my house he would always sleep. I'd sit there and sing to him and play guitar and he would sleep. And you know, all through his life I've never had an issue with him not wanting to sleep.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure why, like I don't. I'm not a doctor and I don't know the reasoning but this doctor refused to believe that that was true and she had it. She was so hell bent on telling me that I was lying to create a rift between his mother and I. And she's like, well, you're obviously lying, you know. And there was this like this huge, like animosity from the second I walked in the door. You know, I don't know if that's male or female specific, but it sure felt that, you know, not a lot of kind of men in the situation had even attended these kind of meetings in a split relationship and I don't know man, there were multiple times throughout Aidan being young, where there is a bit of disparity between the two roles and you know, it's important to note that it's so hard for a woman to go through what they go through, and I'm not taking anything away from either sex or either either parent.
Speaker 1:No, I think you just sharing your experience, man. You know, like it's it's not, it's not saying that that's you know how it is across the board.
Speaker 2:It's that, that's your experience, so yeah there's a, I think, once you start getting into it. You know I said I went to some counseling and that was a huge point, turning point. It gave me, it really enriched me and empowered me to be able to go back to Aiden's mother and say, no, actually I am an amazing father and I understand that I'm not going to be here for XYZ. However, I will be here 24 seven, like if that kid calls me and needs me to this day, I will get on a plane tomorrow tonight.
Speaker 2:The second like you know, there isn't anything in the world that would stop me from being a father when my son thinks nothing, and that's something that you know the doctor in Melbourne kind of really pushed. He's like not a lot of parents who were full time parents would even say that, you know, sometimes like they don't even like their kids, they don't want to be parents, and they happen to be there 24 seven like. You're not there 24 seven, but the bottom line is that's your to your belief, that's what your you know attitude toward parenting is and that's worth more than anything.
Speaker 1:And if you're emotionally available for 24 seven, that's like that's, yeah, a huge, huge thing for them, you know, feeling supported and and obviously that's why I didn't also feel very comfortable, you know, coming to you with anything, as well as because that you've got his trust. You know you've, you've listened to him knows that I would.
Speaker 2:I would do anything, yeah. And another big turning point was, you know, I had an uncle who was a, who was a head magistrate, a family court, for, like you know, 40 plus years, and so I called him asking for kind of advice when I was going through that kind of horrible period, and he said the words to me timeshare isn't equal to custody, and that's something that's not spelled out or explained. They're like I said, there's no manual to being, you know, just for parenting, especially when you're doing it from a good place, not a place of hatred with a parents or something. But that sentence changed my perspective and the way I, you know, could confidently engage in discussions with Aidan's mother and it all it means is that when the court looks at parenting, there's timeshare. There's, you know, marcus has Aidan five out of seven days, or one out of seven days or whatever it is. Then there's custody and custody is literally the care of that life, right, and unless the court rules that you are unfit to lose custody, you are 50, 50 parents.
Speaker 2:And so one of the biggest things I was strongly with at the time was that I felt like I didn't have the right to have a say in how Aidan was going to be raised, what school, what clothes, what haircut, how we parented. And I think I felt that way because that was maybe how his mother felt at the time and you know, I don't blame her for anything we were both kids learning how to be parents. So once I learned that, I was able to kind of implicate it a little bit and be like no, actually this is what I would like now something to do, or I believe that we should discuss this.
Speaker 1:And you know so it really led to a game changing moment for me and is that sort of as that attitude or that sort of thought being reciprocated as well now, like with Aidan's mum, is kind of like a much better relationship for yeah it was a huge turning point in our relationship and you know I would say we don't overly communicate now that Aidan's old, it's only when you know when we need to discuss kind of major things.
Speaker 2:But since that point it was a huge turning point in our ability to both become better parents in a situation we're in by far. That's cool.
Speaker 1:So, like through that journey of like going through some hard times, it was there anyone like you said there was nothing out there really to you know, assist you, navigate through it, or anything like that. But was there someone that you turned to the talk to quite regularly, or was there, yeah, did you have a maid or someone that you looked up to, that kind of helped you through it?
Speaker 2:I had a lot of people who personally helped counsel on a regular basis, you know, whether that be friends or family, like my siblings and my parents. But, like I said, I guess, being the age that I was and the situation is still quite an odd situation, parenting I didn't overly have anyone that I could turn to for direct advice. So you know I could, I could ask for kind of like resources to learn legal standings on it. And you know, like the whole knowledge is power thing is very much the case. It's like know your lane, you know, know what your rights are and know what you're also obligated to do by law. But no, like I had to seek out that doctor, that counselor to really get the unbiased support that I needed. And you know I've actually suggested multiple friends of mine since then go see him or Skype him. And you know such such a great time to now talk about. You know there is absolutely no shame in saying that you've been to a doctor to talk about your problems without your parenting. You know related problems or other. Like I'm such an advocate for it.
Speaker 2:I think that I always thought I was an advocate and I was cool with it and then, when it came time to needing it.
Speaker 2:I didn't go, you know, for a long time and I had to be pushed into it by family and friends and ever since then, like that changed my life.
Speaker 2:You know, to be able to go to someone that's totally removed and unrelated and talk honestly and openly, without being judged, was a massive game changer to my life and gave me, like such a boost, such a power up, career wise, life wise, everything like it just gave me such a perspective so I couldn't be more of an advocate for it. And, like you know, your platform here and the podcast is like, if nothing else, the most important thing is to say openly and publicly between the men that listen to podcasts or women, is that you know, like, go and talk to someone. If you're struggling with parenting, if your relationship's breaking down and you want to be a parent still which is a huge anxiety that I've, you know I've helped a few friends through then go talk to someone, like, find out how to do that. You know the child is in, your relationship with that child is the most important thing and so, like, why wouldn't you get help on it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I didn't know anyone that wouldn't at some stage put their hand up and go like, fuck, we're really struggling as a couple. While you're trying to raise children, it is like you know, you don't have time for each other. You're trying to work, you're trying to, you know, have careers and passions and things like that, and then you just have this like tiny hour of one day to connect with your partner, really without you know, kids screaming at you or needing some sort of attention or or whatever. So it's a really difficult thing. And, yeah, I couldn't agree more that, yeah, if you're, if you're struggling or whatever, or your butting heads like speak up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally and in any area of your life. I think that, yeah, that whole like going to to sick and fasting is so, so important.
Speaker 1:So a bit of a like complete backflip of topic from Aidan, but moving forward, you're newly married and would you guys be thinking about babies?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't. I don't know. We both definitely talk about it. We're both not in the place right now with our careers. We don't know. You know, like, as you know, we are not businesses. It's a strange thing to say, but you know we foster a lot of dogs. Yeah, and I know that's unrelated to humans I'm not saying it's the same thing but we foster dogs and that's kind of opened our eyes to like maybe we're more suited to adoption, you know, and and child fostering.
Speaker 2:And we, we both seem to have the ability to love unconditionally, regardless of the situation. I think that would be supremely more difficult with humans than it is with animals. You know, cute little puppies and stuff, of course. But we definitely do think that and we're both just so grateful. You know, like, talking about like would you change anything? And becoming a young father, like, we're so grateful. Like Shawnee, my wife is so in love with Aiden and Aiden's so obsessed with her, which is obviously so heartwarming as as a father. But you know, we have this amazing kid in our life that, like you know, he comes to America and hangs out and we're taking to Disneyland. You know, like, and we just were so lucky that we have that. So we don't. It's not like we feel like, not you should ever feel like you're lacking if you can't have children or you don't want to. But we definitely we're not rushing to have kids because we already kind of feel like we are parenting.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, totally no, that's really cool, man. So I mean, we've kind of covered. We've covered a lot of topics in terms of, like, parenting and, yeah, trying to maintain a relationship as a father, you know, with Aiden from from afar and whatever. So, yeah, just want to kind of end it with, you know, just a massive appreciation for you and and being so open and honest and it's going to help a lot of people. So really appreciate it, and I know that your, your time is precious as well being back home with Shawnee, so I really appreciate you taking some time out to share your story. Yeah, man, anytime.
Speaker 2:I think what you're doing is real good and I think that you know, honestly, if you do end up with a bunch of people listening to this who are maybe seeking, you know, answers, I'm all for being involved in a parenting group or you know, maybe this is, maybe this is something logical that we we can start, like I've said my whole life that there needed to be, you know, a group of kind of lawyers and counselors and regular humans who kind of got together from a male perspective and maybe we looked at the laws around parenting and you know the different situations that come from parenting. So I'm all for being in the discussion as someone who went through it. Parenting is a mind blowing thing. You know all your dads and mums are doing a great thing, yeah.
Speaker 1:No, let's, yeah, let's look into that man I'm. I think it's such a such a good thing to have, maybe a space that we can, you know, just reach out and ask a quick couple of things, like through a chat or something like that too. Yeah, it could be a really cool thing to do. Watch this space. Watch this space. Matt. Thanks so much for tuning into this episode your bunch of legends. If you enjoyed the show, could I please get you to show me some love by subscribing and leave a really nice review? Also for loads of extras and to stay up to date with all things dad podcast. Head on over to dad underscore podcast on Instagram and give us a follow. Huge love to you all, daddyo's. Catch you soon.