Hey, Daddy-os! Stoked to bring you a fresh perspective on fatherhood with insights from Sophie and Ashley, the dynamic duo from With Woman the Podcast. As we chat up a storm, we uncover the emotional rollercoaster dads ride, from those heart-stopping moments in the delivery room to the silent battles of IVF. This episode is a treasure trove of stories and strategies that will bolster your parenting game, whether you're a newbie on diaper duty or a seasoned pro at the bedtime routine.
Get ready to have your view on the labor room flipped on its head as we share epic tales of dads who've gone from sideline supporters to front-line heroes. We're talking about dudes who've weathered the storm of childbirth, offering a shoulder to lean on and eyes brimming with tears at the first glimpse of their little one. But it's not all about the delivery room drama; we also peel back the layers on the often invisible struggles of IVF, providing a raw look at the journey that many couples endure in their quest to become parents.
Wrapping up, we dive into the nuts and bolts of being an effective partner in childbirth—no small feat, let me tell you. From learning the right moves in birthing classes to staying cool when the going gets tough, we lay out the roadmap for dads to truly step up. So, if you're looking to do more than just hold your partner's purse, this episode is your golden ticket to becoming the advocate and ally your family needs during one of life's most miraculous, yet intense experiences.
Hey, Daddy-os! Stoked to bring you a fresh perspective on fatherhood with insights from Sophie and Ashley, the dynamic duo from With Woman the Podcast. As we chat up a storm, we uncover the emotional rollercoaster dads ride, from those heart-stopping moments in the delivery room to the silent battles of IVF. This episode is a treasure trove of stories and strategies that will bolster your parenting game, whether you're a newbie on diaper duty or a seasoned pro at the bedtime routine.
Get ready to have your view on the labor room flipped on its head as we share epic tales of dads who've gone from sideline supporters to front-line heroes. We're talking about dudes who've weathered the storm of childbirth, offering a shoulder to lean on and eyes brimming with tears at the first glimpse of their little one. But it's not all about the delivery room drama; we also peel back the layers on the often invisible struggles of IVF, providing a raw look at the journey that many couples endure in their quest to become parents.
Wrapping up, we dive into the nuts and bolts of being an effective partner in childbirth—no small feat, let me tell you. From learning the right moves in birthing classes to staying cool when the going gets tough, we lay out the roadmap for dads to truly step up. So, if you're looking to do more than just hold your partner's purse, this episode is your golden ticket to becoming the advocate and ally your family needs during one of life's most miraculous, yet intense experiences.
Howdy ho, daddy-os, and welcome to the Dad Podcast. This is brought to you by myself, kyle Graham. This is a place where all types of dads, or dads to be, can tune in, copy-geek or learn something new about life as a parent. Follow along as we interview dads of all types and undercover some wisdom to help us be the best dads and partners we can be. So get comfy and listen in your big deals, because the next episode of the Dad Podcast is about to go down. Howdy ho, daddy-os. Thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of the Dad Podcast.
Speaker 1:I'm super excited to have you all listening in and equally excited about the guests that I have coming on for this week's episode. So this week I have Sophie and Ashley from With Woman the Podcast. Now, sophie and Ashley are both midwives and have experienced a lot through their journey of being midwives and, yeah, so they have started a podcast called With Woman the Podcast, and it's just about empowering women through that journey of becoming, you know, mothers and the daunting process of going through birth. So I'm super stoked to have them on and kind of like, pick their brain from a, from a bloke's point of view and, you know, give you guys some nuggets of what to do, what not to do and, you know, also just hear from them and hopefully you guys can pick up on some some really great tips there. So yeah, with our further ado, I'd like to introduce Sophie and Ashley. All right, guys, I'm super stoked and excited to have you guys on the Dad Podcast. So welcome and thank you both so much Really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Thank you, we are very excited to be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so awesome to just have, like you know, some real professionals willing to take, you know, time out of their weekend in our circumstance.
Speaker 3:I know, ashley, because you know it's actually.
Speaker 1:That's really nice, you are your industry professionals, right? Yeah, so we really appreciate.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you asking us to jump on board and to give a little bit more insight from our perspective of things, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and you know the the reason for is to, you know, give us DaddyO's some opportunities to take some real nuggets out of your experiences, you know like, and just just arm them with every possible thing that they can to to dag glory through that birth process. You know so and also, let's talk about the what not to do as well, I think it's really important.
Speaker 2:Oh, we've got a few more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's definitely true, yeah, and so, like I don't know about you guys.
Speaker 1:So you guys have just started this new journey of creating a podcast too, and one of the measures of success for me, like creating this podcast, was if I can just help one person, like each episode, I've nailed it, you know.
Speaker 1:So I've been so overwhelmed by the feedback that I've got so far from you know, people listening in and stuff and and also people in person coming up to me has been insane, like you know, whether it was their place to share it or not. But you know, like you know, sharing something about their husband or this or that or, like you know, just blokes reaching out to for a bit of a chat. So, you know, like I just I've loved the whole process of creating a podcast and you know, interviewing all walks of life and experiences and stuff. So, you know, I just think, as I sort of said, mentioned to you guys earlier, I think, going to the days of Dad's being stereotyped as just being silly or uneducated, you know, especially during the the process of birth and parenting too, because, like I know, so many times I've walked down to the park and it's like, oh good on you, you've got the kids like it's, like what's, is this just normal?
Speaker 2:you know, like, oh yeah, like Dad's baby sitting. And like, no, he's not baby sitting, like it's his kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's just parenting, he's just being a parent yeah, and see like it's a culture, and you know changing a culture isn't easy. But I guess you know this is a start and I just want Dad's to feel encouraged by other dads to sort of educate themselves. You know what's about to happen, not only for their partners but themselves as well. You know, as men we don't go through the physical changes, but there's certainly a shift in our mental state and it's not about losing our identity or anything like that. It's. It's about worrying if you're good enough for the role. You know, supporting, nurturing and providing isn't something that males are generally faced with until they're about to have a child, right. So you know, speaking from experience, I know that I've had times where I've felt a huge amount of pressure to provide for my family. You know a really great life, but then also be around and and be involved. So yeah, she's a tough one, but, um, you know I just delve in with you.
Speaker 3:We are yeah, I think what you're doing is is really important because, yeah, the stereotype is there, but it doesn't help when men don't feel safe enough to have these conversations with each other totally and you're providing space for that conversation to begin and it's really important work that you're doing.
Speaker 3:And yeah, we started a podcast relatively at the same time and it's great. And we feel exactly the same in the sense that every time we release an episode, we don't really care how many people listen to it, as long as they gain something from it and, like you said, if we can help one person along their journey, then that's we've achieved our goal.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, it's so cool. Hey, it's very cool to experience and you know it's, it's an idea that you just talk about between yourselves and then for it to to come to light and snowball into this kind of like really cool things.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, hey look how so bloody wild in there it's been about two, three years yeah, to actually jump off the cliff and have the balls to like, actually do it and I think you know being in a pandemic really sparked that for us?
Speaker 3:yeah, because we had the time, but um, it gave us the opportunity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, yeah so enough of me blabbering, this time to learn about you both and yeah, let's start with a little intro about each of you, and you know what's your background and what's the story about. You know around the potty creation as well, and so she just recently had a bob, did you?
Speaker 2:I did.
Speaker 2:It is six and a half months now congrats thank you, it's been a well yeah yeah, welcome to the other side yeah, I have been a nurse for, oh god, eight years eight years yeah we are yeah so far there's two of us finished podcast and a midwife for seven, and then I started working in MGP which Ash and I have previously spoken about on our podcast where we met about three years ago and I've been on maternity leave going on seven months now. I have a little boy. His name is Hayes and I think, being a midwife, people expect you to know what parenting is about and really, like we, only know the first two weeks.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we know as much as you do.
Speaker 2:So I'm like learning as I go as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, awesome.
Speaker 3:Ash, I'm Ash. I've been a nurse for the same amount of time that SOEF has and a midwife also for the same amount of time. As SOEF said, we worked on mid to free group practice together. So for those that don't know, it's a model of care where you have a primary midwife and she follows you through your journey of pregnancy. She's present at your birth and then up to two weeks postnatally. So we refer to this as a continuity of care model and basically it's associated with having better outcomes for moms, families in general and babies as well. And we're strong advocates for women's rights. And because obviously our podcast is called With Woman, they're kind of the other side of the spectrum to what you are with dadbot, but our purpose is very similar in the sense that we really want to empower women to take control of their bodies and to gain a little bit of knowledge. You don't have to be flooded with a huge influx of every single thing that you may or may not need to know, but it's just about having a basic knowledge.
Speaker 3:Yeah, having a basic knowledge and having the confidence to own it.
Speaker 2:And to speak up for yourself, but to advocate for yourself too.
Speaker 3:So that's kind of the purpose of why we developed this podcast, because we really want to provide that platform. Outside of that, I'm not a mum yet.
Speaker 2:Tbc yeah it's like she's pregnant. Imagine if I drop that, I don't think your wife would be very happy if I dropped that on your phone yeah yeah, I know Kyle because I'm best friends with his wife.
Speaker 3:We went to high school together, so that's how we know each other. Yeah and yeah, I'm just living my best life at the moment.
Speaker 2:I just live vicariously through Ash, all of her little yeah.
Speaker 3:I send Sophie videos of me when I'm out and she's like, can we post this on our Instagram page? And I ask her you just credit me.
Speaker 2:No one will listen to what I just say. What was the one I was supposed on Friday? When I fell over on the dance floor.
Speaker 1:Very professional, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly right, but yeah, that's us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. I think there's parallels with what we're doing. It's a very similar goal that we hope to achieve for our listeners. So, yeah, it's really cool that you guys are doing that. So I think let's start talking about some of the things that dads can arm themselves and be ready for, and so we might dive into a few sort of questions and stuff for you guys, if you don't mind answering.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's one of the best or worst dad performance you guys have ever witnessed During, obviously, yeah that birthing process, yeah.
Speaker 2:There's been a lot. Oh, there's so many, there's so many. I think the main one is fainting yeah.
Speaker 3:Sure yeah, the amount of it's so annoying.
Speaker 2:It's so common as well, the amount of dads that you look over and they are just white as a ghost. And I always say, when women are in labor, now like to their partners, support people. Are you a fainter? Like, give me your heads up now, because the amount of times that you turn around and they're already on the floor or something and you have to put them on a chair, put them on a recliner, sit them up with some orange juice.
Speaker 3:I think too. There's this ideology that men need to be strong and not perceived as weak, and all of those sorts of things. So you can and usually this happens to either in theater or when an epidural is being inserted they're kind of the main two that reasons as to why men would faint. They don't right after if there's a lot of blood. Yeah, true, otherwise I don't typically men keep it together for a birth. Yeah, or they're just like completely in their zone.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but you always look at them across the room and sometimes we can pre-empt things because we're looking at them and we're like we know you're not OK.
Speaker 2:But they're often like no, no, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, everything's good I'm strong enough and then boom, they're on the floor.
Speaker 3:You're like I told you that's so much paperwork. But yeah, it's often. You know when an epidural is being put in and they do that accidental sneak. You look around and look at the size of the needle and then they're gone, or you can see the needle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or you can see them right in front of their partner and they're trying to like hold on to them, because we always say like stand in front of her, so she can kind of like have you right in front of her.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You can see them kind of slowly start to like look around for like a seat or something, or they're like trying to take like deep breaths and you're like just sit down, I'll take over.
Speaker 3:I think another thing too is like some men who are a little bit disengaged from the process too. There's been some stories, but we've looked after people who are, you know, semi-professional footballers or athletes of some description, and so you can kind of see the family dynamic between the woman and the partner during her labor and you've got like a funny story of when the woman said to you, don't worry about me, I'm fine, but can you go and get my partner lunch?
Speaker 2:And I was like, and I was just standing there thinking like, fucking what?
Speaker 3:Yeah, Honestly, I've been here for like 12 hours, and I haven't even had a break myself but you want me to go down and get your partner lunch. Who's laying back in the recliner on his phone Like not even supporting her? Did you know?
Speaker 2:there's a cafe downstairs and you can get oobreets to the front of the hospital, by the way.
Speaker 1:Not doing so, any favours fellas.
Speaker 3:I know, see, this has got to change. It's not everyone, we're not generalising here, but just, yes, some funny things that have happened.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm trying to think of anything else there's definitely the positives, where the dads are like the biggest advocate, and if they weren't in the room, like the women would just spiral.
Speaker 3:My most emotional trigger. Like I don't ever cry and burst, but my emotional trigger is when a dad cries, it is the best. You just look over and there's like tears coming down when he's looking at his baby and he's looking at his wife and you can just see how proud he is of what's just happened in that room. Yeah, and like the length of a woman. Oh it's, it's amazing, but that'll get me every time I'm like, oh, I'm crying again.
Speaker 2:It's like you try to hold it together, you try to cry and then you just like I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:This is really beautiful.
Speaker 1:I think it's like hats off to you guys to to give the fellas the the space or the vibe that where they feel comfortable enough to be emotional. Like that too, I think it wouldn't always be the case either, definitely.
Speaker 2:There's some dads that like try to hold it together and you can you can see it as well, yeah.
Speaker 3:I think too, you know again, going back to the model of care that we've predominantly worked in our whole career is that we build relationships with both of the family and like mum and dad.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you're like kind of part of the whole.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you kind of feel like you.
Speaker 2:You're the first born child.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're part of the family unit.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it's only like the three of you in the room and like the baby comes out, you're like, oh, can we have a?
Speaker 3:group hug. So that's made things easier, I think, from the male's perspective, because they're aware of who we are. They know who we are, they're comfortable around us anyway.
Speaker 2:Like they can have jokes with us. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And the way in which that Sophie and I practice is it's not. Yes, the woman is the main focus in a labor scenario, but particularly when she's transitioning. So that's from when a woman's around seven centimetres to full dilatation. When she starts pushing, they become quite intrinsic and quiet, and it's often when partners freak out the most because the woman becomes a little bit less responsive.
Speaker 3:She's not really herself, and that's when we as midwives make a few more jokes and converse a little bit more, particularly at that time, with the partner, just to kind of let them know that we're all good, this is fine. The noises she's making, that's normal, this is all good.
Speaker 2:And it's usually when dads are looking at you, yeah, wide-eyed, like, is this normal? Like they? Don't want to say it, no, you give them a little smile like yeah, yeah, like thumbs up.
Speaker 1:No, that's awesome. And is that model of care available for, like the public health system? Yeah, it's.
Speaker 3:Medicare funded. Unfortunately it requires a dedication of a lot of midwives, so it's not available at every hospital.
Speaker 2:It's mostly only the bigger hospitals, really, yeah, but a lot more are starting to come around with it and get more models of care in place.
Speaker 3:It's just hard to get, I think, I think program. It's hard to get into the program for families. You usually have to jump on board soon as you pay on a stick. So like five, six weeks pregnant.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask, like, what's the process? You know that we need to go through yeah to find out whether, yeah, that's available.
Speaker 2:It's different at every hospital but your main protocol is your GP, so a lot of places. If you go to your GP first, they'll give you your models of care. I know at our hospital women were already knowing about it through calling up and then women that were coming back through the program who had previously been with us. They were calling us and emailing us at like five weeks pregnant. But if it's hard, you don't know what you don't know Exactly right.
Speaker 2:So, unless you've got a good GP that's going to go through all the models of care with you. It's up to you to research what the different models of care are and what's available at the hospitals that are closest to you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's probably your first step. It's you know, if you're planning a pregnancy, or even if it's a surprise, as pregnancy soon as you're aware, jump on Google easiest resource you have Look at your local hospitals around you and see what model of care is on offer at that hospital and if you see MGP there, then get to your GP ASAP so you can have a real contact with the hospital.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's great advice. Would you say, the births that seem to go the most smoothly are the ones where their partner is, like, educated and ready to roll his sleeves up, or is that a generalization? I?
Speaker 2:think that's a generalization. Birth can go so many different ways and you can be as prepared both like women in labor and their support person can be as prepared as they possibly can be, and it doesn't mean your labor is going to go how you want it to. Totally I think it's better to have the education and the knowledge so that when things don't go the way you're planning, you are easily adaptable. Yeah, but I don't think knowledge really directs how your labor is going to go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, not at all. There's some things that are just completely out of control.
Speaker 2:It's definitely with things like how you mobilize and you different pain relief options and everything that can cascade your labor into something that you don't want. Yeah, that you didn't expect, yeah.
Speaker 1:I reckon, from from my experience, you know, with our children was that the best way to prepare ourselves was talk about what are the options, what's your preferred option? Yeah, and then, OK, cool, well, what is the end goal? The end goal is to have a healthy kid. So if it means that, hey, we get a tap on the shoulder to say, guys, it isn't going to plan the way it is, like, you know, here's, here's what we can do to deliver a happy, healthy baby, fucking go with it.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, the main thing is not just healthy, but happy as well as you said yeah. So you can have a healthy mum and baby. But at the end of the day, like they may not be happy, the mother might not be happy at all with, like, how the journey went and I think if you can get both of them on board, yeah, I think to like some women prepare their partners so much that when things do change they can become abrupt but also kind of progressing forward. What's the word Like?
Speaker 3:combative. Yes, sometimes be combative.
Speaker 2:You're usually not good with words.
Speaker 1:Is that just because they're like just thrown off, like they're there? Oh fuck, I've got to adjust here. I don't know, I don't really know. I think you know they.
Speaker 3:Obviously it's coming from the fact that they've had multiple conversations with their partner and their partner's been really strict, like prime example is I don't want an epidural. We have so many women that come into our clinic before they have their baby and they're in labor and they say, if I ask for an epidural, tell me no or they'll have a conversation with their partner. I need to ask for an epidural three times. If I've asked for it three, on the fourth time, then get me an epidural. So they have these prior conversations and things change and the woman's like no, I'm serious, I really want this, and it's only like her first time and he's like oh, no, like she's sweet.
Speaker 3:No, she said no to me, so we're not doing it and it's okay, we know it's like say it, say it four times, say it, I'm really fast. Or there's like a code word pineapple or something like that, when you've reached your limit, or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what if they got the same code word in their sex life?
Speaker 3:And I was like it's not mine.
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Speaker 1:So, ash, you've recently been specializing in a bit of IVF. Yes, could you give us a rundown on the process of how it starts? You know, like I recently had a, it was it was my first guest on the podcast, actually, oscar and they had to go through four rounds of IVF and on the fourth, very luckily. You know things, things progressed. So very aware that it can be extremely stressful and hard and invasive, but I also know that it can be magical and fucking awesome. You know, like these medical advances that we have on offer, you know, like I think it's so incredible.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, that's a tough question to answer. In the sense of the process of IVF, there is no linear path with IVF. Anyone that's experienced going through infertility will say that as well. Most of the people that have infertility issues and go through the IVF process have an unexplained reason as to why they're going through this process, why they're just not spontaneously falling pregnant naturally at home. And by the time they come to a fertility clinic they've probably already been trying for a minimum six months, but at least 12 months, sometimes longer than that. So you can imagine the emotional strain that that already has on the couple too, and there's a lot of shame and stigma surrounding that. But there's a lot of shame and stigma surrounding infertility, definitely for females, but also if it's a male fertility issue, because the process of IVF is much more invasive for a female than it is for a male.
Speaker 1:Totally.
Speaker 3:Sorry if the reason for infertility is surrounding a poor sperm count or quality. Males feel a lot of guilt surrounding that. I've never thought of it, yeah yeah. So what you do in the process is just ejaculate in a cup.
Speaker 2:We could be there.
Speaker 3:Yes, it is in a room and, yes, scientists are just outside waiting for that sample.
Speaker 2:No pressure, I'm not at the idea.
Speaker 1:Preferred. Yeah, yeah. So Jaz and I were like literally so close to having to go through the process and, yeah, we did all the tests to find out. You know what was going on, and what I went through compared to what she went through was just like yeah.
Speaker 2:Was that?
Speaker 1:with your first or second, yeah, second. So yeah, like and it really is, I know, going into those appointments like I just felt so heavy and as stupid as that sounds, it's like you have this sense of failure which is, which is like it's just this natural thing that it is so stupid, but compared to what the female has to go through, it's nothing.
Speaker 3:So and it's hard because it's an unknown Some women will have a successful round of IVF and fall pregnant off the back of that first cycle, and that's amazing. As you know Oscar discussed in your episode, it took them four.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Some women 18, 20. And there's a financial burden that's associated with that, as well as just putting your body through that, because if you think about it, that's you know. If you're doing 18, 20 rounds, that's 18 to 20 months, almost two years, so you don't have a break. Most women are. Well, I think you don't have to, you know, but most women will probably have a break after the third month, just because most of the medications that are administered through the IBF process are injectables and they're hormones, so they change how a woman feels about herself, how she looks, because, you know, most women will put on a little bit of weight where whether it's fluid retention or actual weight so they start to feel more uncomfortable, their body image is impacted, and it can really kind of mess with their emotional state oh, it 100% messes, not just because you're trying for a baby, but with all the hormones on board.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1:I think like outside of you know the side effects of medication. There's the mental stress that you're under in terms of like feeling lonely, like you don't feel, like you want to talk to people about that process, because there's the oh what if it doesn't work? And all these sort of things. So you're probably like it's a very lonely sort of time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and there's more. I think focus on this now it's more people are willing to have the conversation about infertility issues and going through IVF, but it is still very early days and I think the more exposure that this gets, the more comfortable people will be to have these discussions, because it is tough and you cannot tell. You know, most women won't tell their employer, their partners won't tell their employer what they're doing, let alone your family members, because the last thing you want to happen is having people contact you and say are you pregnant this month?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's going on with you know, at the same time, when you're trying to conceive naturally, naturally as well. It's not like you're talking to your friends and your colleagues and all your family saying like, oh yeah, we're going to try again this month, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's excellent. I was not Nailed it.
Speaker 2:Maybe, you can't you can't.
Speaker 1:Because it depends on what the relationship is like. Yeah, well, I think it's like a topic that needs to be spoken more about, for sure. Ivf.
Speaker 3:I think it's slowly gaining traction, this topic, and you know it relies on people to be brave about their stories and be willing to share them. But if you're the dads listening to this episode and they're going through infertility issues, just want you guys to know that you actually aren't alone. Like it affects far more people than what we realize. Women are deciding to have children a little bit later in life. It's probably going to become more prevalent than what it is now, in the next, you know, five to 10 years. So you know, don't be afraid to have conversations and yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 1:Yes Was words. So we had a few questions come through on the Instagram page as well, which is really cool. People just wanting to know your thoughts on a few things. So what's your thoughts on GBS testing necessary or not? Also, thoughts or comments around antibiotics in labor. A couple of questions inside the question, but there you go.
Speaker 2:That's a real loaded question because I think it's really important, because it's based on own preference, really, yeah, yeah, most public hospitals actually most public and private hospitals test for GBS in Australia at about 35 to 37 weeks gestation. It's a low vaginal swab and either the woman does this herself or her care provider can do it for her as well, and it's a bacteria that's found in the vagina.
Speaker 2:I think that's important to understand is that it's a normal bacteria, yeah, and it's transient, so it comes and goes in women all the time. So, like Asher, I could have it right now and then in life. Think yourself I was doing it Actually.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I didn't know that I didn't know that, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Well, I'll skip that one to yourself.
Speaker 3:So it's her not me.
Speaker 2:It comes and goes in women all the time and it doesn't affect us at all, you don't even know where you have it. No, so the only time you ever get tested for it is when you're pregnant?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's not an STI, a sexually transmitted infection or anything like that.
Speaker 1:No, so I can like thoughts on. That is like what, if you feel like you want to do it, you do it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think you know the debate there and probably why someone has asked this question is because the parameters for swabbing at that stage of pregnancy differ between states and also between hospitals. So that means there's different depending on where you choose to birth. Sure, and the same goes in the same sentiment, in that it's transient. So, yes, we're swabbing at 35 to 37 weeks, but will it still be there at 40 weeks when you have your baby? Or you know, if it's present, at 18 weeks, because sometimes we can also test for it in urine. If it's present, then and we treat those women as GBS positive the whole way through their pregnancy is at present at 40 weeks.
Speaker 2:And also a lot of hospitals do it like a risk basis on it, so they'll only swab women that have a high risk for GBS, whereas other hospitals will swab every single woman or offer the swab every single woman at 35 to 37 weeks. You don't have to have it. I think that's important to note as well. It's not mandatory, yeah, but babies can get very, very sick from GBS and I think for me personally, once you see a baby that has been sick with GBS, I would take the antibiotics.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a tough one. I haven't had children, so if we're coming from like a personal take we're taking our midwife hats off here because, yeah, obviously we work within our own scope. That's a policy in our hospital. So, yes, we do advise women to have a swab at that gestation. But if I took my midwife hat off I'm unsure. I think if I had the risk factors for GBS, then 100%. So that includes, you know, having ruptured membranes preterm, so before 36 weeks.
Speaker 2:I mean your previous baby with GBS. Previous baby with GBS.
Speaker 3:Lots of those sort of instances, but illness from GBS.
Speaker 2:So out of 1000 newborns delivered thegianally, less than a third will become colonised with GBS. And then out of that, only one to four of those newborns will actually develop an illness from GBS.
Speaker 3:And that illness looks like severe respiratory distress. So basically they're needing support with ventilation and in a neonatal intensive care unit. That means that they're separated from moms and dads for a certain period of time. Usually it's like a week or two. Some babies have passed away from this illness. So you know it can be quite serious In terms of antibiotics. In labour we do bomb the women with.
Speaker 2:GBS with a lot of antibiotics. I think that's why women get really concerned about taking antibiotics, because it's such a massive dose and the dose only got higher. What last year, two years ago?
Speaker 3:I think it's a bit longer than that. Yeah, oh yeah. What's wrong with that? Yeah?
Speaker 2:it's about five. Yeah, so we doubled it.
Speaker 3:And the reason as to why women and their partners may be questioning the use of antibiotics in labor is surrounding how it affects the baby's microbiome. So basically, it's gut health. We know that babies born vaginally that have skin to skin at birth, whether it's with their dad or their mom, and babies that are breastfed, have a better microbiome than babies who are born via cesarean section or babies that have had a lot of antibiotics in labor or a lot of IV fluids. You know those sorts of things. So that's why it's a contentious issue in pregnancy. I think it's just important to weigh up the options. Yeah, yeah, it's a personal decision. Do your research, ask your healthcare provider and then make a decision that aligns with the both of you. If you choose not to swab, you know the risk and you just you know you take that on board.
Speaker 2:And also you are really kind of unsure and then you decide you do want to take the antibiotics. You can also take a probiotic as well.
Speaker 3:It's never too late Change your mind either, okay, perfect.
Speaker 1:Are the classes worth it? Antinatal classes 100%.
Speaker 2:I push for classes like the first time parents oh yeah, 100% or second time parents that have had like a traumatic first birth. I think a lot of parents, how many women book into the hospital and they say they don't want to do classes because they don't want to know too much, because it'll scare them. I always try to say, I always say this to women if you're going to go buy a brand new car, do you just like go to the car yard and like wing it and just buy whatever's there, or do?
Speaker 1:you like research?
Speaker 2:You're obviously going to research it, so why would you not research one of the biggest life events that's going to happen to you? This can potentially change your life Well we'll change your life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's really important for partners because men like you said at the beginning of this episode men are experiencing the like physiological changes of pregnancy and so therefore they can often feel a little bit more isolated and removed from the process. And by attending classes and seeing other males in the room that are ready to support their partners too, it has a huge impact on them, particularly pre-COVID, when we're able to do hospital tours and things like that as well, where they could kind of look at a birthing unit room and familiarize themselves with the equipment in there and what's available to them and how they could best support their partner, because I think we underestimate or a lot of people underestimate how important their role is in labour. It is so important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it can change the whole scenario.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can speak from experience because we did the classes with Marlowe our first and, yeah, the information that I got out of that, it just made me feel so much more calm and ready for the day. You know, when it did come on, you know, things sort of like changed within our first initial plan of a natural birth and we ended up having to have a caesarean with Marlowe anyway. But I was educated on that through these classes so it was as nice as if I just got secondhand news from jazz saying like, oh, this has changed, I've got to. Yeah, it's going to be different.
Speaker 3:And you would have implemented those what you had learnt for the Bertha Valley.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, and that's why we didn't attend the second time around, because we already knew. But I will also add that you mentioned seeing other dads around in the room and how that they're there and ready to sort of get involved and advocate for their partners. I met some really great mates through it too, which is which is cool.
Speaker 2:Like you know, you're really important as well, because it doesn't just put all the pressure on the person that's birthing. I think as a midwife, I did classes as well, and I wanted my partner to do them with me, because it doesn't just put all the decisions on me, it also gets him involved and is like, okay, well, she really doesn't want this, so I'm going to be the one advocating for it.
Speaker 1:When I was like completely oh, when you're giving birth, you're not a midwife.
Speaker 2:at that time, right, you're like yeah, there were some times where I was like but yeah, I think it just puts decision making on them as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:I don't think it should just have to be on the birthing person?
Speaker 1:No, absolutely not as a midwife. Would you prefer that the dad gets involved or hangs back in order to support their partner?
Speaker 3:I'm in the middle, A mixture of both In some instances as a midwife.
Speaker 1:It depends on what time of the day.
Speaker 3:It's really their support for their partner in labour is, like I said before, is so important, probably one of the most important aspects of the labour process. I think and that's as simple, as you know your partner better than we do so reading her cues if she's thirsty, give her a drink. If she's not coping, your words of wisdom will calm her down, like she. You have that connection with each other and I think most males are able to read the room, like I think you know they know. Most men know when to hang back and pull back a sec, and also most women, particularly in transition, aren't afraid to vocalise that either.
Speaker 3:Like I can't tell you how many times yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've heard don't fucking touch me, Piss off Like and she will and I always just try to say this to partners she still loves me yeah, she's gonna love you after this. She won't remember. They all do this.
Speaker 2:But it really it drives me insane. The one pet hate is when you walk into a room and the partner is sitting on their phone pretty much the entire process, Doesn't even look up or hold a hand or anything. When she's having waters broken or there's a decision to be made, he just sits in the chair. It just it drives me insane. Get off your phone or he'll be like, look at the CTG monitor and be like, oh, you're having a contraction. Yeah, she's having a contraction If you just look at her clearly.
Speaker 1:You can hear her. Sorry for disturbing you.
Speaker 3:And you know, I mean, you know they speak for ourselves. I've seen so. If you do it in her practice and I have certainly in mind if a partner is a little bit like you, encourage the fairies. We often give them a role. Well, okay, I've been holding this heat pack here for five minutes.
Speaker 2:You're going to come and do what I'm doing massage the back yeah, massage the back, so you do it like this. Yeah, or her water bottle is like half empty, so that's your job now. You offer a sips in between every single contraction and they'll usually be like oh, yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:Sometimes I say, like you're the water boy, you're the runner.
Speaker 2:And sometimes it's giving them a role because they actually they don't know what to do and I can be created by the process as well.
Speaker 3:You know where it's. Just it's a you know again this old idea that it's a female dominated you know thing, and most midwives are quite strong in their presence, and so some men can be quite intimidated by that in the sense of like I don't know where I come into play in in this process and at some times, and so that's why they hang back.
Speaker 2:It's bad. I, you know, guess in a sense on our role that we do this every single day, sometimes where you kind of you don't forget about the partners, but sometimes Our focus is on the woman and the baby, and it sometimes takes like a couple of hours or so. When you look at the partner, like, oh, like I should have given him like something to do or I should have been including him a little bit more, especially if, like, they're not asking a lot of questions.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, especially when something traumatic is happening or what they would be perceived as traumatic is occurring. I think it's really important, particularly for midwives or for the health care provider, to really communicate with partners as to what's going on, because you can imagine the fear that they have sometimes is am I going to lose my partner? Am I going? To lose my baby. You know, when an emergency situation is occurring, the partner is often in the corner of the room, silent.
Speaker 1:They don't know what to do.
Speaker 3:There's a million people in the room and I think that's again something that we Wow. That just gave me goosebumps, yeah, no.
Speaker 1:It happened to me that day. It's awful.
Speaker 3:You know, and unfortunately the partner's not the priority, but as soon as there's time where we can communicate to them but often by that time you know you can imagine what their heart rate's doing is through the roof. So much If they're having to go to theater and they're separated from their partner for a short while.
Speaker 2:they've got no idea what's going on, or if they're just watching their baby get resussed or something. Yeah.
Speaker 3:The woman is often having an out-of-body experience because she's either just given birth or she's very intrinsic in that moment, whereas the partner is there watching the whole thing unfold.
Speaker 2:I also don't think there's enough postnatal support sometimes for partners that have been through a traumatic event. Yeah, because, as Ash just said, they're the ones actually watching it all unfold minute by minute, and they feel helpless and can't do anything. I think there needs to be a lot more postnatal supports for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree For sure. I mean, I didn't want at any time, like I wouldn't say that our experience was super traumatic at all, but there was, you know, towards the final stages, all of a sudden there was, you know, 15 midwives and doctors and specialists all in the room like within two seconds, and I had no idea what was going on and even that, I was very and I was very, I was very.
Speaker 2:Totally when that starts happening.
Speaker 3:But you don't know whether it is it normal to have 15 people in the room when this is happening, or is it abnormal to have 15 people in the room?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, like, yeah, I wouldn't say it was super traumatic at all, but I, you know, I can't recall ever sort of been asking like oh hey, are you traveling with it all? Yeah, you know, afterwards, I think, even if it's not in the room at the time, maybe in the hallway or something like that afterwards, or maybe if it is included into the sort of the checklist of like before they send the parents home, yeah, I think it's like reach out the door Perfect.
Speaker 2:Because Ash and I working in a continued-of-care model part of we have this opportunity. Yeah, part of our like it's just, our common practice is debriefing. We go in our room, whether it's visiting our women at home and their partners. We'll debrief on the whole birth. What happened? Do they have any questions, Whereas a lot of women don't have that.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 2:Because they don't see the same healthcare providers. Afterwards they might have a midwife or doctor that's in their birth and then they'll never see them again.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a valid point that you make, adding it to like a postnatal discharge checklist or something like that. And hopefully coming along those lines is implemented. One day.
Speaker 1:Listen up. New South Wales Health.
Speaker 3:Not just New South Wales Health, the whole health system.
Speaker 1:The whole public and private is traumatic yeah.
Speaker 3:And in a private healthcare system also yeah, all over same thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally yeah for sure. So next question what to do for a baby that hates being burped? Screams in back arches until they stop.
Speaker 2:I would stop burping women.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it really. Maybe they don't need to be burped, I don't know.
Speaker 3:I mean, sometimes back arching can be a sign of trapped wind, but yeah, Like colleague or something, A lot of breastfed babies shouldn't really need to be burped. Yeah, probably yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'd say it's probably not.
Speaker 3:And not every baby needs to burp, particularly the breastfed. Yeah, A lot of said babies. You probably need to just give them an opportunity to let their tummy settle and sit them up, but or changing positions in how you're doing it, because there's different positions A lot of people just do the whole like over your shoulder or like sitting up.
Speaker 2:There's like over your lap, over your forearm if they're little. Maybe it's that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, and then if things persist, see you're medical professional, yeah.
Speaker 2:There you go guys my medical professional.
Speaker 1:And so I've heard you guys mention on your pod to ensure that you're aware of your options and the best way to support and advocate for your partner during birth. Can you share experiences where the partner's advocacy has come through with a really great result?
Speaker 3:I think we probably nearly see it every day, to be honest. Yeah, nice thing that we're able to say that, like I've said before your birth particularly first time parents is unpredictable, but if a baby is born in a happy, healthy condition and mum's happy, then their partner's done their job. It's pretty simple, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But it's even just the partner questioning something, or even if it's just as simple as walking into the birth suite and they bring in their little piece of paper with, like here's her birth preferences. Like, you've done a good job, that's all you need to do, yeah that's right.
Speaker 1:So I guess you know, like. That being said, I think it's extremely important for you to be an advocate for your partner because, like you've just said, you've seen it over and over again, every day.
Speaker 3:I'll actually give you an example that happened to me on the weekend. My birth didn't go to plan and the mum was separated from her baby and the baby went to the nursery together. He was asked a question in regards to giving the baby vitamin K, which is one of the injections that we offer babies at birth, the other one's hepatitis B vaccine and he opened up the birth plan and he said nothing's gone according to plan today. I'm just going to refer to the birth plan. You looked at the birth plan, looked up at the pediatric doctor and said can we just wait for my partner to get here Because she'd prefer a different option? So can we just wait for her to arrive? He's done his job. Yeah, she arrived a little bit later into the nursery. He liaised with her. They came to a conclusion together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's very easy to get swept up by the emotion, and you know the fast paceness of it all. Is that even a word, Fast paceness?
Speaker 3:It can be really fast you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like it's, you can get so swept up with it and just go with the flow. Ok, well, yeah, yeah, I guess. So that's what we've got to do.
Speaker 2:So let's just do it, yeah, and it's a really fast-paced environment, sometimes Just like we're doing this, this, this and this, sometimes support people can just be a bit like oh, I don't have time to think about it, or yeah, and you just met another new face.
Speaker 3:And another new face. Who are you? What's your role?
Speaker 2:What's your role in the birth preferences? Or you've had previous discussions with your partner where this is where classes come into play. So much Because classes bring up opportunities for you guys to have conversations with each other about what you want and what you don't want. I was really adamant with my partner that I do not want an apesiaotomy, and these are the situations in which I will have one. Like before we went in, I was like so what's your job? And he's like you don't want an apesiaotomy. You're like.
Speaker 3:OK, Like you remember, but in the car on the way there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you know that made you feel comfortable about having him there, Right? So that was his job.
Speaker 3:That's what obstetrician she doesn't want an apesiaotomy. Yeah, I would have loved that too.
Speaker 1:Just straight away.
Speaker 3:She's got something, that's OK. She's not in my video, oh good.
Speaker 1:And then he just goes, oh.
Speaker 2:Oh, I got that, I did it, I did it.
Speaker 1:It was going for the high fives. Yeah, do you guys add any nuggets of wisdom in amongst any of these questions, or anything that you could share with the listeners?
Speaker 2:She's going to love you at the end of the day.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's more just like have the confidence to own the pregnancy and the birth as much as what your partner does.
Speaker 2:And no question is done.
Speaker 3:No, absolutely not.
Speaker 2:OK, that's been some dumb questions.
Speaker 3:But that's funny and that's OK. Like just this is as much of your experience as it is for your partner. And be present. You will remember much more of this than what she will, and that's important. Yeah, and it gives you an opportunity later down the track to say and you've heard this so many times, after a woman's had a baby, and the partner's like, do you remember? You said this to me and you pooped and you should have seen what it looked like when the head was born. You know, and they've taken photos and you know they have such an important role and it's underestimated in society and it needs to change.
Speaker 2:And get involved, partners with watching it happen. Yeah, I really yeah. I think it helps. It gives somebody a new sense of lack or of their partner.
Speaker 1:You can also relay that to your partner because they are having that out of body experience or you know, whatever it is, they're not going to remember certain things. So if you are involved and I will just add to that, so during our birth classes it was, like you know, one of the last sessions and they're like all right time to ask any any sort of questions, mike. So where the fuck do we park?
Speaker 3:I was like, I had no idea.
Speaker 1:You know like and you know what you don't if you're like, oh so, just get this car park right down the end of the back of the hospital there and you've got to walk with all the bags and all the shit I have seen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was sitting in our lunchroom one day and I saw a partner carrying his wife up the stairs and we were all like he's legit got to be a fireman, like the way he was carrying her and when he got up there he was like she could not walk, I couldn't get her in the hospital. I just had to carry her up the stairs, and they're like pretty big stairs.
Speaker 3:Yeah they are. It's like two sets Okay.
Speaker 1:No, that's awesome. So I know it's been tough to sit here with a couple of cold ones on a Sunday.
Speaker 2:You know I'm going to be different beers as well.
Speaker 1:I'm going to. I'm on a Celts are I'm not? No, you guys are going to be here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're going to have a car Heavy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, no. So yeah, I just feel like it's. You know, we're just caught up at the pub and had a bit of a yarn, so it's, it's been really great. I appreciate it. So thanks so much for taking the time to come on the dad podcast today, guys, thanks, and yeah, really appreciate it, thanks, thanks, guys. Thanks so much for tuning into this episode your bunch of legends. If you enjoy the show, could I please get you to show me some love by subscribing and leave a really nice review, also for loads of extras and to stay up to date with all things dad podcast. Head on over to dad underscore podcast on Instagram and gives a follow. Huge love to you all. Daddy O's, catch you soon.