A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To My Life® with Laura Muirhead
Welcome to A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To My Life®. This is THE place to be for stories to inspire and uplift when life doesn't go according to plan. I'm Laura Muirhead, your host and the reigning queen of A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To My Life®. I can't wait to share my plot twist stories and the stories of my guests with you!
A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To My Life® with Laura Muirhead
EP 14 Michelle Ann Collins - A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To My Life®
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Michelle Ann Collins joins host Laura Muirhead on this week's episode of A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To My Life®. Michelle shares about the loosing people closest to her, including her husband to suicide. Listen in to find out how those experiences led her to a new life of sobriety, grief education and authorship. She now helps others not just survive but thrive through yoga, wellness coaching and her writing.
Michelle is the owner of Inhabit Joy, LLC.
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Find Michelle's books here: https://www.amazon.com/Michelle-Ann-Collins/e/B096D9TWWS/ref=dp_byline_cont_pop_ebooks_15
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Welcome to a funny thing happened on the way to my life. This is the place to be for stories to inspire and uplift when life doesn’t go according to plans. I’m Laura Muirhead your host and the reigning queen of a funny thing happened on the way to my life. I can’t wait to share my plot twist stories and the stories of my guests with you!
Find out more at lauramuirhead.com
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Hello and welcome to this episode of A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to My Life. I am so thrilled to have today as my guest, Michelle Ann Collins. Welcome, Michelle, and come and tell us who you are, what you do in the world, and where you are at.
SPEAKER_01Hi, thanks, Laura. Thanks for having me. And I just want to start by saying I love the name of your podcast. It is so, and it's so true that there's always a funny thing, right? You know, the the saying when uh when man makes plans, God laughs, you know. Um we just never know what direction or or spiral or pothole in our journey is gonna come up. So I love the and the fact that you use the word funny, because ultimately if we can look back and laugh at the things that uh changed our journey, it's uh it's great progress. So thanks for having me, uh, Michelle Ann Collins. I'm an author, uh grief and wellness coach, and a yoga therapist, among other things, but the list gets long and a little bit boring. So we'll just stop there. Uh currently have three books out, or you can see them over my shoulder there. And another one coming in the next few months, probably August will be the publication date. Uh, I write about loss, grief, trauma recovery, and focusing on the recovery aspect. Uh I've been through several pretty big hurdles in my life, big, big funny things that happened on the way to my life. And what brought me to my current life is really the unexpected, the tragedies, the difficulties I've had to overcome. Um, and that's really shaped what I'm doing now. Uh, people don't go into grief coaching usually from a problem-free background.
SPEAKER_00Right, right. And um, I do know a little bit of your story, but um, yeah, you know, you definitely don't just jump into that unless you've experienced it, I wouldn't imagine. So, and that would also be the best place, in in my opinion, for you to uh to coach and to help counsel people. Um, if you hadn't had that experience, then I I don't think you would be able to touch people in in the same way at all. So tell us a little bit about tell go ahead and tell us about your story. Um, I know there's multiple there's multiple parts to this. Um it's not just one story, it's a couple of funny things happened on the way to my life stories, um and which also isn't uncommon. Um, so go ahead and and tell us like where this started.
SPEAKER_01Um well it's you know that's a great question because it's really hard to know, you know, once I arrived in, I guess let's start there. When I arrived in trauma therapy after my uh I was married to my second husband and he died by suicide in 2016. I obviously was in grief and I developed PTSD from the trauma of the end of our marriage and his and the loss of his life. And um ended up on my trauma therapist's couch. And I I really think that that's the beginning of where I am now, uh, learning how to survive and thrive post-trauma. Uh the term post-traumatic growth is becoming more and more popular in scientific uh psychology literature and um even popular literature now. And uh that's really where I sort of landed, you know, as far as writing books and um working to study grief and trauma recovery. But my grief journey starts back when I was six years old. I lost my grandmother. That's my first big loss that I remember. And she was really my person. I connected with her, she was my everyday after school fixing me Campbell's chicken and dumpling soup, which I don't recommend anymore. But at the time it was my favorite sustenance. And, you know, I just have such amazing memories of my bond with her. I had three older siblings, and my mom and dad, you know, were often busy with them, but I had my own adult. So when she died when I was six, I grieved as a six-year-old would. I kept asking my mom, when's grandma coming home? Because I didn't have a concept of her being gone for good. And I still remember uh finally, maybe it was a year or two later, that I realized she was gone and started grieving in the way a seven or eight-year-old will. That was my first big step into grief. And and I, you know, I look back as an adult now, now as a grief, a student of grief and a teacher of grief um management, that that was a really big event in my life as far as destabilizing for my childhood.
SPEAKER_00Sure. I can, yeah, uh I imagine it would be. I was very close to my grandparents at that age and spent a lot of time with them. And um, luckily they were were in my life, you know, much longer than that. But I I can't imagine because I feel like even the people that I know who passed away when I was younger like that, you don't, you know, you don't have a of reference point for that. And especially someone who was that close to you and really your close caregiver, I I can't imagine how that how that was for you growing up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was it it definitely destabilized things for me. As you know, and so many children go through destabilizing events, and now you know, science is is medical science is really getting a handle on, or at least some deeper understanding on how childhood trauma affects adult health. And it's really fascinating, a fascinating um area of research that they're able to connect you know, adult health crises or health issues, uh, mental and physical, with childhood trauma. There's studies about that now. So, therefore, once you study it and you realize the connection, then you can begin the process of intervention and education so that hopefully more people that experience childhood trauma will grow up healthy and able to deal with uh being an adult, which is hard whether you went through trauma as a child or not.
SPEAKER_00Right, right. Yeah, it's hard enough. Well, and I love that you said um post-traumatic growth. I think that that is a great term because there I I have a very close friend who lost her daughter uh several years ago. And that's what I see, you know. I I when you said that it reminded me of her and made me think, yeah, it is a growth, it is a uh change in your, you know, change in your life, a change in everything. Um and I also think for you, it's it's one thing if you would have lost your husband to a disease, whatever, you know, physical disease, but to lose someone that you love like that to suicide, that's a whole nother layer as well, I imagine.
SPEAKER_01Yes, there there are, I just actually recently was at a training about the difference that that really outlined with bullet points, if you can believe it, uh the difference between the suicide loss and the other types of losses. Now there are sudden losses, there are slow, you know, um, like when I lost my mom, that was my next big tragedy in my life. In 2007, she passed from leukemia, and it was a three and a half year uh battle. And I did, you know, now that I'm studying it, I did the the pre-grieving where I found out the diagnosis and the prognosis was 12 months. She lay lasted three and a half years, but um so I went into grief three years before she died, and you know, that's uh premature grieving. Yeah. Um yeah, and so that that was at the time, of course, the biggest tragedy of my life. And then since then I went through a divorce, or which was also a tragedy, and then remarriage and then losing my husband to suicide. The extra layers of suicide, there is guilt oftentimes with any death. Uh, we tend to turn to ourselves with the what else could I have done? You know, when my mom died from cancer, the what else could I have done? Could I have made her more comfortable? That kind of thing. I didn't blame myself for her cancer or her death. Uh with suicide loss, you do that. And of course, I'm generalizing, not everybody, you know, takes takes that so personally when they lose a spouse to suicide, but um it's it tends to be connected to how you were before. So if I took everything personally and felt a lot of guilt in my life before his death, then I'm gonna, it's like putting a magnifying glass and emphasizing everything. If I was an angry person before he died, I'm gonna be an angrier person after. If I was an anxious or depressed person, it's gonna emphasize that. So recovering, it's really, really challenging. And the suicide loss just adds, you know, there's a lot of finger pointing. Nobody does that when someone dies of cancer. It's it's you know, my cousin's fault. You died of cancer. You know what I mean? So yes, you're absolutely right that that is an extra layer, I think is how you said it, um, of challenge to overcome, recover from, heal, grow through the loss, a suicide loss.
SPEAKER_00So I I would imagine, you know, you it had been a few years since your mom had passed, um, before your before your before you lost your husband as well. But did you do you feel like you had um had time in that during that those years to heal, to grow into, you know, to to grieve your mom and be at a place where, you know, were you in a decent place, or was it just, oh my gosh, now another, you know, something more, something more added on. Um, I'm just, you know, it didn't, it doesn't seem like, you know, you you say it's been several years, but that doesn't necessarily mean that, you know, the people who say time heals all wounds, no, not necessarily, you know, it it it it it makes space between it, but it doesn't necessarily heal it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's that's a good point. And um, when we talk about healing from grief, we uh we need to just decide kind of how to define what does it mean when you're healed? I was actually just talking with a client about this the other day. Is there an arrival? Do you wake up one morning and go, oh, I'm healed? The answer to that is no. Uh David Kessler, who's the you know, world expert on grief, he worked with Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, uh defining the stages of grief and then added finding meaning. He had his latest book is actually called Finding Meaning as the Sixth Stage of Grief. He defines the arrival at healing as when the love out outweighs the pain. So when you can think of your loved one more with love than with pain, you can really get into the memory of your loved one, bring it forward, maybe finding meaning through their life. Like I have found so much meaning through the death of my husband and my mother by becoming a grief coach and studying grief and loss. So that's my own meaning. You don't have to start a foundation or become a grief coach uh to find meaning. The meaning might be just remembering their smile, just remembering and so to answer your question, uh, I had developed a lot of insight and skills as far as the self-care and just requiring me to live a life um post-my mom's death that it was incredibly difficult because she, you know, like when I lost my grandmother, my mom was my person. I mean, she was her phone calls to her punctuated every event in my life. And uh I had three little kids. When she was diagnosed, my kids were one, four, and seven. And when she passed, they were well, three years, had three, um, eleven, eight, and four when when she passed. And so I you know, uh, I needed her a lot. And my it was like having the rug pulled out from under me. She really was the just the glue that held my world together. Um, and so recovering or proceeding with any form of life after that was growth. It was I hated it, I didn't want to grow. But um, after I was to a point where I could start seeing other people's pain. So I was to the point where I was through my pain enough to be able to sit with others because my mom died. Most of my friends still had their moms, right? I was only 41 when she died, and I was 37 when she was diagnosed. So um other people started coming to me when their moms got sick and or parents, even siblings were sick and dying. You went through this with your mom. How did you dot dot dot? So I was sort of put into that. And then just five years after my mom died, my marriage dissolved. And I was divorced about six years after my mom died. And that again, once I got to the point where people were coming to me and saying, You went through this, how do you get through it? How do I get through a divorce? So I was forced in a way, Laura, to get my feet back underneath me because I have an innate sense of trying to help. That's just part of my makeup is trying to help. So that's that was part of my healing. When my mom died, I thought nothing else in my life could ever be as painful or as tragic or as awful, as destabilizing as that. I was sure of it. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, and that's what I also think, you know, listening to you and you know, having asked the question, you know, about healing, is that maybe there isn't ever really healing. Maybe it is like what you say, more of a balance of, you know, not hurting um as much, but maybe you don't ever really quote unquote heal from it. Um, you know, that might not even be the right word, but um, and yeah, when you just just when you thought there's nothing that could get any any worse um and dealing with your mom. But I also think that a lot of people, or maybe some people, not me, not necessarily a lot of people, I give you a lot of credit for wanting to help others when they come to you for advice. Oh, you lost your mother, and how did you deal with it? I think there are there are people who would be like, no, no, uh, not me, don't ask me. I don't, I can, I don't, I don't, I'm not in a place to help you. I, you know, it's you know, it's not for me to give you advice or whatever. And so for you to step into that, and like you said, it's innate in you to be a helper, but some people might not take on that role. And so I think that that's really amazing that you were willing to do that and see that you even take it far enough to become, you know, to become a counselor in it, uh, so that you can help other people. I think that's huge.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. Yeah, I it took it takes a lot of work. And I don't blame or belittle or think anything negative of someone who just says, no, I I can't talk about it. Uh we all go our own our own path when we're faced with tragedy. And uh just getting out of bed every day, you know, if you're in grief right now and you're getting out of bed, that's a win. Okay, if you're in grief right now and not getting out of bed, just call it. I I call those wet days. Uh and when you have a wet day, just let it be a wet day. You know, do whatever you can. Um, this is the kind of advice I give to people in grief. Uh, whatever you can to get through that day because tomorrow you'll be a little stronger. Uh the more you care for yourself, the more you'll be able to be a little bit stronger. And um, it's not something you have to plan. By Thursday, I'm gonna be strong enough to talk to my friend who called me. You just you just want to keep putting one foot in front of the other. Um, I want to tell you a story about when I was first, I guess, forced out of my grief cave. Um, if you don't mind, is that okay? Sure, yes, absolutely. Okay. It's this is in my upcoming book, but not in anything that's published yet. Um about nine months after Glenn died, my husband Glenn, from suicide in 2016, a friend of ours contacted me to tell me that uh they'd heard of a mutual friend of ours who had died by suicide. So it wasn't even a year. I was still deep in my PTSD was still developing at that point, wasn't even fully, fully grown. Um and when I got this call, you have to call her the wife, the surviving wife. You have to call her. She she found him. You she's devastated. And my first thought was, oh hell no. Can I say hell on this podcast? Sorry, hell, I might sometimes four-letter words come out of my mouth when I'm talking about this stuff. So maybe you can just bleep it out. Uh yeah, I said hell no. I might have even said some other four-letter word. I couldn't go there. I absolutely could not, I couldn't even think about being helpful to her because I was still so in the grief cave. I was wounded and hiding, and and I I just, you know, doing everything I could to try to not feel the pain that I was in. And about an hour or two later, this little voice came into my head and said, You have to call her. You have to. There is nobody who can be more helpful to her than you right now, because our husbands knew each other, we were friends, but I was it. I was the person she needed to hear from the most. So I put on my big girl panties and you know, called in my my angels and my, you know, and God and anyone who can support me here and there. And um, I made that phone call and I'm just starting to tear up thinking about it. And that was a really big step toward my healing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And I can imagine that you at that point would be like, no, I can I no, I'm not in a place, and then for you to realize, you know, to be inspired to talk to her and um and have that, you know, have that be a stepping stone for you. And I I can only imagine it was huge for her, like huge for her to be able to talk to someone who had a similar experience and was willing to, you know, be uh be compassionate and and be there for her. That's incredible.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Laura, it was one of the hardest things I've ever done was pick up that phone and call her because I just couldn't think of anything to say. I couldn't think of anything I could possibly do that would help her. But what I realize now through my, you know, my training in in grief and well and coaching, wellness coaching, uh, is that just sometimes just being there, just being a witness, being able to hear her story that so many people couldn't hear. And I went through the same thing after Glenn died. People don't want to hear about what I found when I found his body. People don't want to hear about the police and the Emmy and you know, they don't want to hear all those details. It's horrifying, especially people who cared about me. They They don't want to get that close to that intense pain. And I don't blame anybody for that. We're not raised to do that. You know, unfortunately, our society is so poorly equipped to deal with trauma and tragedy and grief. We we have very few educational tools, which is why David Kessler started his grief education program. I'm so grateful for it and his other programs. Um, because once you're educated, um, then you can help others. And even if you're not educated, you can help just by being there. Just don't try to fix it. Don't don't try to distract, just sit, just be present with the person. And that's what I could do. That's all I could do with her at the time with my friend. But I was able to do it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that's amazing. And the thing is, even as you're talking about it, like the things that you're saying, like, okay, hard enough that you discovered that you discovered his body. Okay, that's one thing. And then to deal with the police and the sirens and the no wonder there's a post-traumatic, you know, syndrome from that. Then no matter you, no, no wonder, like the grief, and again, these layers of just all of these things that um there's just so much that and we don't know. And we, you're right, we aren't prepared. And I think a lot of times, and I don't know so much now, maybe it's a little bit better, but you know, just thinking back again to my experience with the as a younger child, you know, growing up when family members did pass away, there wasn't a lot of talk about it. There wasn't a lot, and um there, you know, and then to just be kind of thrown into you know the viewings or the whatever. And, you know, these things where people are like, no, you have to go up, you know, you have to go up to the casket. You and you know, even for an adult, that can be difficult, let alone, you know, if you're a child, and it's just expected, and there's there isn't a lot of I don't know how people deal with it now. Um, thank goodness there are people like you in the world to help them, but to just be able to, you know, to be able to talk to somebody like you said, or to have somebody there, because we don't we don't talk about things, it's not there.
SPEAKER_01It's because it's hard. Emotions are hard, feelings are hard. They they hurt, and we're a numbing society. You know, who who doesn't meet for a drink or need a drink to go out in public or uh what other sub whatever other substance you're numbing with, uh sitting and vegging in front of the television. Um and I'm not saying those things are bad or wrong, but it's it's what we're conditioned to do rather than sit and feel. And that's one thing I love. So I'm I'm Jewish, I was raised Jewish, and uh I love one of the ways that uh you're taught in Judaism to follow um a death is that you sit Shiva. It's called sitting Shiva, and it's a week of feeling the feelings. You sit, you're you're you know, in some traditions, you sit on the floor in dirty clothes, you don't take a shower. I don't follow that tradition, but you know, bless your heart if that's what you do, that's okay. Um, but you sit and people come to you and they feed you and they grieve with you, and every night you have a prayer circle, and it is a week of just grief, just sitting and grieving and feeling the feelings. And then that goes on. There's different traditions that that go on for the following months and following year, and very specific um items to you know activities that you do, and you are also remembered by the community uh that you're grieving. You stand in synagogue and everyone remembers, oh, they're still in grief. It's still the first year, so you're supported by the community. And and like and I am generalizing, synagogues all over the world do do different things, but that's a general thing. And then at the end of the first year, you have what's called an unveiling, and you're released from your uh requirements, your primary mourner requirements. Uh, so you can go to celebrations and remarry if it was a spouse. And um, I really appreciate that about Judaism, but unfortunately, it's just not, you know, outside of a very small group, it's not uh sort of the daily conversation. You just don't, you aren't educated in that. And part of it is emotional intelligence that we could be teaching in schools. You know, it'd be great to teach emotional intelligence, mindfulness, like instead of being a victim of your emotions, which is what we are, which is why we numb, because we don't know how to sit in pain, we don't know how to just deal with suffering as part of our daily existence, uh, until you're educated and practice mindfulness and you know, maybe some sort some form of prayer, meditation, all these things can make it okay. Like, okay, I'm in pain right now. And the emotional intelligence piece of it, I don't want to just throw out all these terms, but without explaining, what that means is that you understand I am feeling anger right now. But the anger isn't controlling you. You notice when you're feeling anger, I'm angry, and that's my primary emotion right now. But underneath anger, you also have happiness, joy, sadness, sorrow, fatigue, you know, all these other feelings. And if you if you study and practice emotional intelligence, you're able to be with your feelings rather than react when you feel when when your emotions are strong. Yeah. So that's probably the biggest educational tool that I use and help people with is it's okay to feel sad.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. It's okay. And I think, you know, I I love what you said about the the tr traditions of Judaism because you know, not having those experiences, it seems like it very frequently, number one, we we don't know what to say to someone. If somebody passes away, you really just don't know what to say other than, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry for your loss. That's what us, you know, like it, which is great. I mean, it's an expression of how, you know, that you are sorry for them. And I'm not taking away from that. But I think that there are these, you know, everybody comes together for the services, and then everybody's gone. And that the people who are still close to that person are still grieving, and they're, you know, they they you know all of us, you have this support for what a few days, and then that's it. Well, what happens after that? Where's the support after that? And I do know that I've heard a lot of people say, um just I even remember somebody in my high school, there was a car accident, a couple of the boys were killed, and I remember hearing the one boy's sister say, you know, it's when we're setting the table and we're pulling out four plates instead of five. You know, it's not the expected things. You don't know what's gonna hit you, and maybe you're good for how, you know, however long, and then just a memory hits you or a place that you go, or any, I'm sure it could be anything, whatever it is. And so I think that that that's it's beautiful what you're saying as far as the support and allowing people to still be sad. You might you might be happy, perfectly happy yesterday, but today isn't you are, you're sad today because whatever reason, because of the memories, because of a what whatever you miss that person, whatever it is. So, you know, I think what you're doing is so important and and helping people in this way, it's incredible.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. Thanks. Um, yeah, I think it's a really important point that you bring up with the, you know, we talked earlier about the concept of when have you arrived at healing, right? Or is it even possible to arrive at healing? And I think that that's a really good uh uh point to visit that that there are I call them sneak attacks. There's sneak attacks where you're just walking down the street, like you said, just setting the table, you know, your your eyes glance at an item that your loved one prized. Uh you walk by a restaurant you used to enjoy together. Um, you know, it can be anything like that. Things fall off the shelf. That's one of my favorite point. Oh, he, you know, um, and what what we need to realize is that building strength, building emotional intelligence, building self-care into our daily practices, mindfulness um helps bring meaning to our suffering because we are stronger people and more able to deal with the waves, right? You can picture it like a wave, like sometimes the sea is just nice and smooth and you're cruising, and then a big old way will come from one of these um reminders, like you were mentioning. And it it can happen at any time, any year, you know. Um but I do believe that it gets easier if you do the work. And the work is feeling the feelings, thinking about your loved one. In my case, writing. Uh, I'm a writer anyway, so I sort of have that piece, but anyone can be a writer. And one of the things I recommend cannot recommend highly enough is write the story. Because if you lose someone, one of the biggest fears is I'll forget them. I'll forget what they look like, I'll forget what they smell like, I'll forget what it felt like to be with that person. You don't forget it, but it does change because you change. You're keeping you're growing and changing and having new experiences, and that person, your memories are you won't make new memories with that person. So the best thing, in my opinion, and if you're not a writer, you can vlog, you know, make a video of yourself or an audio if you can't stand video. Uh, but record in some way, writing has its own neurological benefits, you know, the physical act of writing with a pen, which I do sometimes mostly I type on my computer, but create the story and and it'll help you with feeling the memory. Um I've written about so many of my experiences with Glenn and with my mom. Um, and it just brings it to life. And yeah, it might be painful when it brings it to life. I may be sobbing into my keyboard, which but it it's it's also helping clean out some of the pain and making room for the loving, joyful memories. So I think, I think writing about and telling, just tell the story with to a therapist or a grief coach like me, you know, telling the story, even if you have to tell it 10 times and it doesn't change, maybe the 11th time, you'll get some relief and you'll be able to get a little bit of the pain out and put in a little bit of the joyful memories.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I love that. And I also think as you're talking, what's coming to me is just journaling in general, um, besides telling the story, maybe the memories that you have and writing those down, or like you said, recording them, but also journaling on your feelings. And it it, you know, I'm a big fan of journaling in general, and um so to just to keep get that out of your body, you know, there's some times when you and they and I know a lot of people have say the counselors and different people say, if you're holding on to even anger, you know, just write write a letter to that person that you're angry about and you don't have to send it, it just gets it out of you so the expression of it can be helpful. But like you're saying, the stories that you can write that will be the reminders that you can go back and look and say, Oh, I do remember that time we went to the beach or we went on the vacation, and those were good memories. And you know, you know, maybe you can look back on those to see that no, I don't have to have only these painful feelings. That I did have happy times with this person. And um, and then the other thing I was thinking when you're talking about the self-care is that in general, we don't have enough self-care. We don't do that in general. So if you're in a place of grief, I would think that's even harder. You know, if you're having a good day, we we don't do enough self-care, most of us. So if you're grieving and you just want to, you know, maybe be under the under the covers for the day, um, the self-care is really, I would think, a struggle to, and like you're saying, just the the step, the step, the step. What can you do? One thing for yourself to, you know, and I would think that I mean, sitting in the grief and wondering, you know, why why would it even matter? Like if I go get a pedicure, that's not going to make me feel better. You know, that's just silly in the big scheme of things when somebody has lost their life, has passed away. No, that you know, but but these are the things that are these are important steps, like you're saying, I would to moving forward, to the growth, like you, you know, as you say. So um, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's funny that you mentioned pedicure because after my mom died, I just went to bed. I was in bed, you know, we in Judaism, we we have a funeral very soon. So the funeral was two days later, and then I just went and crawled, I went home and crawled into bed, and people were taking my kids to school and bringing food. And I, you know, my husband was being very supportive, and I just let myself go. And uh that was self-care for that time. I think that what we need to do is look at what is self-care. Uh, self-care, the very core of self-care that can be the most helpful is being okay with yourself. The hardest thing is if if you're hard on yourself, along with trying to recover from a trauma or or be in grief, you're just at you're making it worse. And that's what we do, though. Self-criticism, self-blame, uh, shame, guilt, all of those things, in my opinion, are uh self-harm. And so self-care might just be going, I'm okay because today I'm laying in bed crying, and that's all I can do today. And then the pedicure story, uh, so I went to bed, Sunday was the funeral, Monday night. Uh there was a minion, so a prayer circle at my house, and um, I was in bed. And then Thursday my friend came and she said, You have to leave the house. And I said, No, actually, I don't. I mean, I don't even know if I'd showered, you know, it was I was that much of a wreck. All I could do was cry and not believe my mother was gone. And she made me get dressed and took me out to get a pedicure. And it wasn't about how pretty my toes looked. It wasn't that it was that my friend was supporting me the way that she knew how. She wasn't a sit-in-grief person, and that's okay. You know, we all do what we can. Um, but it changed, it affected my nervous system in that I was touched lovingly, you know, I had a little foot rub, right? Pedicure. And I was in a different environment. I wasn't just in my grief cave, in my bedroom where I'd been crying for days. And so there were so many layers to that type of self-care, more than just the superficial, oh, my toes look pretty.
SPEAKER_00Right. And I agree with you as far as the um one of the things that my mentor, Joanna Hunter, always says is um just you know, check in with yourself and say what is the most loving thing I can do for myself today. Oh, I love that. And so it could be, well, I need to take myself back to bed. That is what my what I need today. Or it might be I need to do the dishes. I can't, you know, stand this mess and that'll take my mind off it. It, you know, it could be a million different things. It could be make a grilled cheese sandwich. That that's what I need, like whatever it is. Yeah, whatever it is. But yeah, um, and and that to me, that applies to us all every day. You know, what you know, what what do we really need for for today? And and not to use it as an excuse to not to not do your thing and not live your life, but yeah, what is the most loving thing I can do for myself today or right now?
SPEAKER_01Right. And and most loving thing includes growth, it includes purpose. So it wouldn't be laying in bed doing nothing all day unless you're in a you know post-traumatic or grief state and and you need to just stabilize because that's the first step is stabilizing. Um, I want to revisit if we can. Um, you had mentioned about people sort of falling off after the few first few days and weeks, and I want to go back to that and um just you know, if anyone who's listening is supporting a griever, um, someone in grief, keep reaching out. I want to emphasize that as much as I can. Grief doesn't go, doesn't have a timeline, as we all know. So it may be that you reached out every month for three months, and that person never got back to you. So you figure they're doing their thing, whatever, they're fine. They're not fine. Keep trying. This isn't about whether you feel ghosted or not. This is about this person who's suffering. And if you had a friendship before, it it may be changed going forward because this person is different, because they because grief changes us, but please keep reaching out because you never know when that's setting the table or that you know, picture or the thing that falls off the bookshelf. You never know when that's gonna happen. It might be six months, it might be a year. I actually was just talking to a friend of mine last week who had a friend in grief, and she was like, you know, I reached out over six months, and she just never responded. And so, and now this was six months later. I said, So you haven't heard from her in six months. No, I said, reach out again. You don't know where she was six months ago, you don't know when she's gonna be able to accept support from you. Sometimes you're not even ready to accept support, and sure enough, she she uh sent me a text uh few days later and said I reached out and my friend responded, and we're going out for coffee next week.
SPEAKER_00Oh, great.
SPEAKER_01So she was thinking their friendship's over, whatever. And it's like, no, you have to understand grief is like an illness. You know, if your friend broke their leg after a month, you wouldn't be saying, Come on, let's go running together. We need to go running. And if we don't go running, then you're not my friend anymore. You don't do that. So it may be that this person just wasn't emotionally healed enough to be able to do something social, even go to coffee. So just keep reaching out. Don't expect a response, just keep reaching out, it'll come. So that's I just really wanted to circle back to that and and emphasize to anyone who's listening who's supporting someone in grief. A day, a week, a month, it's just not enough time. Yeah, keep trying. Even years later, I have a friend who lost her husband three, four years ago. And um, we weren't close friends, but being a widow and and having watching her go into widowhood, um, I just keep reaching out. Hey, hope you're doing well. You know, I recommended some books to her and some support groups, and you know, I'm just gonna keep reaching out. And if she never responds, it's okay. She knows I'm here if she needs me for those, for those setting the table days.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Well, and I I actually I I love that you said that because I think a lot of times people don't know, like that you do think, oh well, I tried and I tried and I tried, and I guess they they just don't want to be friends with me, but which isn't the case. That's a story for us, you know, making up for ourselves. And you don't know what that person is going through. And um, so yeah, just keep you know being there to be their support. But I also, as I'm, you know, thinking about it, you know, you had so many instances of loss. And, you know, obviously starting at a young age. And, you know, to go back to a funny thing happened on the way to my life, I think sometimes when we look back, those are, you know, stepping stones to who you are now. They they did change, you know, your path went this way and then it went that way. But for for whatever reason, in your life, you experienced multiple close losses. And it's given you this great place to be now that you've brought yourself to, that, you know, it just didn't plop you there. You didn't just show up here one day. You've worked through it and you've worked through a lot of things to get here. But it's just amazing that this is where your path has led you so that you have this and you know, the books you've written and the one coming out, and um to be able to help people in such an incredible way. Um, these are the things that that this is what it's about is the the, you know, connecting the threads, uh, if you will, of our life of yeah, you know, all these experiences clearly impacted you and impacted your life. Um, and you could have gone a different way, you could have made a different choice, but your choice was to to to do this and to help other people, which is amazing to me.
SPEAKER_01Well, to be honest, Laura, I'm really not that amazing, but thank you. Um what I did was I just, you know, it's like when life hands you lemons kind of thing. I was dealt this hand. And I personally don't like to suffer. I like to feel good, I like to embrace the joy in life and have fun and play and dance and sing and be with my friends and and just be joyful. And it's a really hard place to get to when you're in your grief cave laying on the floor crying all day. Um so I really a lot of it was just my drive to to suffer less, to feel better, because feeling bad feels bad. So that was really a big part of it. Was you know, and then the helping others, it was because they could see that, oh, I'm living my life, you know, it might not look like joy, but I am getting out of bed every day. I'm getting my kids to school, I'm, you know, getting dinner on the table and getting my kids to their activities. You know, when you have three little kids, you're a really busy human being. And um they could see I was surviving it. Can't necessarily say I was thriving, but so it really was more that drive to just not feel terrible all the time that brought me into, you know, I was already uh into yoga, uh, but brought me further into yoga to learn to be a yoga therapist, that brought me into meditation and mindfulness studies, that brought me into, I'm also an Ayurvedic lifestyle teacher, uh, which is a sister science to yoga, deals with the, you know, eating, uh, the way that you eat and the way that you know daily activities. Um and each of these things provided a nugget of relief to me, provided a nugget of ability to just deal with every day, and ultimately um the strength to support others who are going through uh difficult times. And I still have difficult times, I still have wet days, they they just aren't as devastating. I um and I approach them from a mindfulness perspective of what am I learning from this pain? I am suffering right now because I can't I have a growth opportunity, and that's exactly how I look at it. I have a growth opportunity right now. It doesn't feel good, but I can learn something from this experience that is causing me suffering.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love that. That's really it so many times that is the case that we, if we look at the the challenges in our life or the pain that we're in, or whatever the situation is, if we can frame it that way, reframe it that way, if that's what you want to call it. Um, what can I learn from this? What can I learn from my pain or from this experience? And how can I grow from this? Um, that's huge. It's huge. And do you still are you still a yoga teacher, instructor? Do you still um offer that?
SPEAKER_01I do, I do. Um I have a goofy class that I teach on Sunday mornings called Grown Yoga. It's on Zoom, where uh it's it's mostly women about my age. There's there can be a variety of different people, but we are you know in the grown years where and I'm talking about G-R-O-A-N. So uh I leave us all I off of mute so that we can interact and talk and oh, oh, you know, very fun. I just moved it to 9 30 Pacific on uh Sundays. And I don't know, the summer, you know, now that COVID is lightening up and people are getting back to studios, the um attendance has dropped. And I so I don't know um if I still want to, you know, if it's still serving people, because I'd rather have people outside or in in company, you know, live company than in front of their computers. And I'm sure they would be too. So we'll see. And then there's three other classes I teach each week that are more my um uh service, and that is uh they're adaptive classes. So we're sitting, this is yoga therapy, so we're sitting in chairs part of the time, although don't don't think for a minute that means it's an easy class. Because, but most of the people need some adaptation to their yoga practice because of a physical situation, a mobility challenge like MS, Parkinson's, hip replacements. Um, some people have just beaten up their bodies with athletics all their lives, so they have a knee or a shoulder they need to care for. And um, so I teach that's a group class that I teach 10 a.m. Pacific Monday, Wednesday, and then 11 on Saturdays. And again, that you know, as we're getting into summer and people are getting out more, I I'm the schedule may be changing, but if someone wanted to come to one of my classes, you can go to my website, inhabitjoy.com, or send me an email. But those are great. And then my yoga therapy mostly stems from the adaptive class. So I'll work with people one-on-one, allowing uh whatever physical situation they're in to lead to guide the therapy. So it's like physical therapy, but in with yoga principles. So sometimes I just need people to take a deep breath. That's what they need the most. So that's what we focus on in our therapeutic sessions.
SPEAKER_00I love all of that. The uh the adaptive yoga, the like chair yoga, what you know, those types of classes. I know those are really also beneficial. Like my mother's older, and she has done some of those classes. And I think the last few years have been challenging for a lot of well, a lot of people, but older people as well, who used to get out and go and do those things and to be able to maybe find them online now and know where to go to find somebody online. I know some of them are, like you said, coming back to live classes, but not fully yet, some of them. And it's really important uh to be able to reach these people, even if it is in their homes, so that they do keep moving and you know, just not let your body just stiffen up.
SPEAKER_01Well, when we first went, uh when the studio closed, and the studio where I was teaching adaptive yoga actually closed permanently uh during the first month of COVID. They were like, this isn't gonna happen for you know, they they had the foresight to know that we weren't gonna be closed for two weeks. So bless their hearts. My students figured out most of them had never done Zoom before. And the first few months was all tech support. You know, they all had my phone number and they were calling, how do I get on Zoom? What's this? You know, download. And I mean, it was, oh my gosh, I was so inspired just watching them get over the hurdle of trying to get on Zoom to do yoga. And then, you know, I created a bundle that I would send everyone with the equipment. You know, we we use blocks and fair bands and uh make sure they have a stable sticky mat. We use chairs, like I mentioned, but they have to be supportive chairs that you can get in and out of without handles. So, you know, it was it was a lot of setup time and they are still coming two years later. Uh, we have a wonderful community. We chat before and after class, and everyone supports each other. Everybody's it's just a really um just a supportive, tight-knit community. It's so wonderful. And we welcomed new people. Some of these people in my class I've never met in person. And some people have had to had to go do other things, and so it's a it's a dynamic group, but just absolutely wonderful. And a lot of these people want to stay online because you know, for people who, for example, walk very, very slowly or have a lot of challenge walking, not having to park in the parking lot and then walk the block to the studio, which uses up half their energy for yoga, has been a real blessing. So some of them really want to stay online to preserve their energy. And so it's it's interesting. You know, I'm just kind of open to see what happens.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there has been a lot of a lot of people who wouldn't have learned the tech, have learned the tech. And I do like, you know, again, my mother, you know, she she's pretty, she was pretty decent with it to, you know, before that. She was, you know, at least using a computer and using her her iPhone and things, but definitely learned all, you know, learned all the Zoom calls and the Facebook calls because everybody, all of her meetings went online and church went online. And but um, yeah, I would love for her to, I'm gonna actually recommend that she find you um to to do try to do yoga because she used to go all the time.
SPEAKER_01And um that's so great. What's your mom's name? Juanita. Juanita, okay. I well, Juanita is welcome to join us.
SPEAKER_00And maybe her friends as well, right? Let's see.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, I've actually had people do group classes where they don't necessarily want to join a class uh that's already in session. If they have, you know, like a bridge club or something and they have four to six people and they just want to do it themselves. If I have room in my calendar, you know, I'm always happy to support that too.
SPEAKER_00So that's that that's awesome. I yeah, I would imagine some people maybe are a little bit shy about joining a group that's already intact, but um, but they would maybe feel more comfortable with their group of friends to do it. Yeah, I love that. That's really nice.
SPEAKER_01And I just I love working with people in yoga. I really thought I was done teaching group classes a couple years ago. I I was kind of because I'm doing so much more coaching and writing, and that's sort of the focus. But when COVID hit, I I just I felt like I couldn't leave my people. I I mean, they really wanted to keep going and there was no studio. So I just kept teaching and they keep coming to class. So I'm still teaching group yoga. So, you know, it's a funny thing that happened on the weight of my life.
SPEAKER_00I'm still teaching group classes, and and as long as they keep coming, I'm gonna I'm gonna show up to Yeah, we just keep shifting and and changing and and meeting the needs, and it's wonderful. What you know, what's next? What do we do next? What what do we do about this one? How do we solve this this next challenge? And I uh you have definitely met your challenges and and and worked on them and and now to turn around and and help other people in so many ways. Um, what is and well, maybe you don't want to share just yet, but what is the name of your book that's coming out?
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm working with the publisher on that, like like we authors do, but it will be some of the words in the title will be a mindful guide to spouse partner suicide loss. So it's a very specific book about losing your partner or your spouse to suicide.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01And it's using mindfulness tools, emotional intelligence, all the things that I've mentioned in this podcast, including yoga, um, faith. You know, it's important if our faith that that's another thing we didn't touch on that earlier. There are some religions that uh shame suicide loss or suicide, and therefore the people who go through suicide loss are not supported by their religion, and it's very difficult. And so I'm recording a podcast. My dad, my dad, my dad. Uh yeah, so that is another one of the the big differences um between a non-suicide loss and a suicide loss is there can be a lot of shame in your community. So um hopefully this book will help everyone. That you know, even if it just helps a few people, I'm gonna be happy about that. I'm gonna be uh, you know, like we were talking about earlier, it'll reach the people that it needs to. And I'm hoping that it'll help uh support people going through suicide loss.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think that's interesting that you bring up religion because I I when you started to say that, um, and I didn't know where you were going to go with it, I was thinking that a lot of people actually do well because of their faith, because of what their beliefs are when they lose someone. But I hadn't thought about the opposite of that, where yeah, especially with you know, with this with suicide, loss to suicide, that people would be shamed for it. And um, I hadn't thought of that side of it.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's hard. I mean, if you if your church was your place of support and community, and then your spouse dies by suicide, and there's no support there for that, that would be really tough. I did not experience that, but I've read about it. Um, and uh I know it exists.
SPEAKER_00Well, and again, another layer of of your of hurting to be, you know, especially just I would imagine feeling really betrayed at that level when you, you know, are part of a of whatever the religion is, and feel like those really should be your support group, and those are the people that you've been part of or trusting, and and especially in a uh in a lost situation, um, you know, challenging situation, whatever it is, and then they just no, we're not going to be there for you. That would just in my mind be a huge betrayal on top of whatever you're already experiencing.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, that would it does add an additional layer of suffering for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I would imagine it does. So um let dad's looking for you.
SPEAKER_01So let's um he's so cute. I know I love my dad.
SPEAKER_00I hope you didn't just think you were out in, you know, out here talking to yourself for you know for this whole time. Like, who are you talking to? But um I think this is a great place. Yeah, yeah. Um I think this is a great place to just um to wrap up. And I it's huge gratitude for you for sharing all your stories with us. And just remind us, um, I know you mentioned it, but what your website is, and I'll have everything in the show notes, but where the people can find you if you um at it when they're looking for you and wanting to join that yoga class or help with some some grief support.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, all the information, my contact information and everything is at inhabitjoy.com.
SPEAKER_00Great. Well, again, thank you so much, Michelle. I love talking with you and hearing your story. It's so inspiring. And I hope our thank you. I hope our listeners as well thank you for listening today, and I hope you're inspired by Michelle's stories.
SPEAKER_01And thank you, Laura, for doing what you do. Yeah, I appreciate that.
