MindsetGo iCommunicate Podcast
Welcome to the iCommunicate Podcast where we develop the mindset and provide communication strategies to foster confidence, emotional intelligence, as well as organizational, team, or personal growth. Our progress and improvement is not limited to a training session; it embodies a constant cycle of self-reflection and continued learning on individual and communal levels.
MindsetGo iCommunicate Podcast
ICommunicate Radio Show #170: I Accept Change
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Welcome to iCommunicate on full service radio, 830 WCRM. To join the conversation, call 508-871-7000. Now, here's your host, Mark Altman.
SPEAKER_01Okay, welcome to i Communicate, and as always, thrilled to be here with you for the show. And uh for those of you who are first-time listeners to I Communicate, this is a show about leadership challenges, parenting challenges, um, how to communicate more effectively with teams, with individuals, how to motivate and influence people. So the idea is to talk through different challenges on the show and have thought leaders and experts. And with that said, we happen to have a thought leader and expert on board today. Michael Ferguson is with us. Michael is the VP of Engineering for GID, which is a privately held vertically integrated real estate company that operates a portfolio of multifamily and industrial assets across the United States. So with that said, that was a mouthful. But with that said, Michael, welcome to the show.
unknownGood morning, Mark. Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_02Great to be here.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So Michael, and I just want to start out by something kind of funny, and that is, you know, whenever I work with leadership teams, one of the questions I jokingly ask them is what two departments in a company are typically the least emotionally intelligent or the or the not most effective communicators? And of course, the answers are finance and uh uh technology, IT. But with engineers, Michael, let's talk about the knock on engineers. I mean, the engineers don't exactly have a sterling reputation for being great communicators and leaders. So defend the position, Michael. That's true.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and it's it's nice, so nice to be wrapped in with accountants and other people. So you know, I I I think from the engineer side, like everyone's different. There's there's different ranges within the engineer, the the typical kind of description and behavior of folks. You know, are you wired a certain way and that's why you become an engineer or an accountant? I firmly believe that. But uh you know, I'd like to think I'm on the softer side, the crossover from engineer to uh to some somewhat a bit more lively. I I I hope.
SPEAKER_01Do you think I just lost any chance of getting any engineering clients? Do you think that just went out the door right there? Um okay. So um a little bit of background about Michael, because I want to un want you to understand the context of what we're talking about. Michael um has had been a professional. When we got to the year 2007, Michael had been a professional for 11 or 12 years, a successful professional, and then he was recruited to be a leader without any prior leadership experience. And that particularly stuck out to me because what I see, Michael, across organizations right now all over America and even internationally, is people are being promoted into leadership positions that aren't ready. Right. Either because they're being rewarded for performing well at their current position, either because there's a labor shortage, right? And and that's a challenge. Um and so I guess from your perspective, you know, you were put in a position, you didn't have the experience, you were recruited. Why do you think you were recruited? What do you think that company saw in you that they could say, yeah, we'll throw this guy in a leadership position?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, it was actually um so the recruitment came from a former colleague um that I was working with. He moved to a new company, he'd been there for a while, the position opened up, and so uh I I think it was uh when you really understand someone who's coming into the position versus recruiting blind um uh it was an advantage. The the other part of it is I think if you think from where we were in 2007 to where we are today, leadership was really more about perhaps the the hard skills, not the soft skills that we think of it today. And you know, how much time do you spend today leading versus functional uh or using your functional expertise? I I think it's just really very different there, Mark. I was probably hired more for those hard skills than the true leadership skills.
SPEAKER_01Well, so before I even get into the hard skill piece, you said something that I've I've often thought about and I can relate to. And because you had had a relationship with that person who had recruited you and they were familiar with your skills, um, you had done some professional dating, right? That's what I call it, right? Professional dating. And you know, as much as people may laugh when I say that, um, my recent hire of director of client success in operations, he and I had known each other. We had done professional dating. So before I made that hire, we knew each other very well. We knew we were aligned in our values and our processes and stuff. Yep. So like it seems like a far-fetched concept, Michael, because it's not like you can hire someone and say, well, let's let's date for a couple months, and if it works out, we'll keep going. Like you can't really do that, but it does make a lot of sense.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it really does. Yeah, I mean you you know the uh the full depth of someone's capability, and you know, maybe to speak to the leadership side of things, maybe um the the recruiting person or party knows that you have those kind of ingredients and the flavors of leadership and skills that you've used will translate into leadership. So maybe not the the direct, but the potential is there.
SPEAKER_01Aaron Ross Powell Yeah. And so you know you you mentioned about hard skills and that's what they saw in you. And you know, it's interesting because a lot of people use the term still soft skills to to describe communication skills, which I totally resent. And I call it human skills because I hate soft skills. Like the word soft is just a negative implication typically. So my question for you is um you've had quite a journey. I mean, you've been in leadership for approximately 15 years. You've had the journey. You know, what did you see in yourself early on? I know you I know you coached soccer, I know you were did some outside activities, engaging groups and pulling people together. What is it you saw in yourself from a human skill capacity that kind of told you early on, not only may you like this, but that you'd probably be good at it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And I think it was through um things like coaching soccer. Uh you know, if I can pull back on that engineering rope a little bit, Mark, is uh organization. Uh it's quest to be uh sort of organized and some formality. I think there's uh elements of that in leadership where you you bring structure and organization. Um but then also I I think the biggest part is engagement. And so you're you're engaging with the person right down to the core of the person. Uh so it's the kid running around on the soccer field who's eight years old, if it's their parent, the range of skill sets that teams have, and every member's different. Really engage with the uh Johnny who's the great soccer player, but also someone who's not so strong. Uh engage with them, encourage, understand, see what motivates them to behave differently, act differently, play harder, uh give them some some vision to do so.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Michael, you know, for me, the three roles I've played in my life that I see so much crossover is coaching sports, being a parent, and being a leader. There's so much crossover, and that's why a lot of times we talk about parenting things on this show. And to your point, if you listen to what Michael just said, he's talking about recognizing people for their differences, meeting them where they're at. He's talking about capturing people's attention and keeping their attention, engaging people, right? And he's talking about motivating and influencing people differently because everybody is different. And when you think about describing an eight or nine, ten-year-old soccer player, if you're thinking about listening to that, you're going, wait a minute, that applies to adults. So, like, I mean, you that is a direct parallel, Michael, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it really is. Yeah, yeah. Get getting and again, engagement is right to the heart and the core of that person. Uh and I've described it before before as having uh before going into a meeting or a conversation, I've got the 16 gear uh gearbox. And before you go into that conversation, and it can be split second, it may take a little bit longer, you put in the clutch and you think for a second it and you go for the gear that's going to work for that person in that scenario. Uh for the the way in that engagement will work, that gear will get to mutual um objective and be successful. It's not the same gear all the time, to your point, for every single person.
SPEAKER_01Michael, when you when you look at your journey as a leader over the last 15 years, from a self-awareness point of view, what did you realize that, you know, hey, these are skills that either either these are skills that I don't have yet I need to work on, or and um what are some areas of leadership maybe that you weren't originally passionate about, but now you look at where you are today and go, yeah, I I used to like feel like those things were a burden and I didn't really enjoy that. But now so let's talk about first self-awareness of skill growth, and then we can talk about um some tr mindset transitions you've made.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So uh uh GID and our uh managing arm um on the property side, Windsor, going through a terrific growth and and seeing the growth of the company laid out by our senior leadership team and recognizing that I have to be different. If if I'm to meet the growth of the of the company, I have to be different. I have to act, behave, think, um, do all those things differently. Um and so that was you know the the first realization that something which was formal, uh someone who was uh a professional in um engaging in leadership, coaching leadership, was something that would be uh a necessary step for me to be successful in the way that I wanted to be successful.
SPEAKER_01So what struck me listening to your answer is you said I have to be different, but you didn't, right? Because how many people aren't willing to evolve and adapt and change? You could have just said, rested on your laurels, you could have been complacent, you could have said, Hey, uh, I know a lot about uh the the commercial industry, real estate industry, I know a lot about being an engineer. You could have just said, I have enough information. So the mindset to me, you know I'm all about mindset, Michael. The mindset of I have to be different. It was that simple, you just said, woke up and said, No, that's okay, I don't mind changing. I have to be different.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and maybe not instantaneous, but you know, hearing more of the growth and how it was coming from concept to reality and structure was changing was, yeah, like a very defined moment of if I'm going on that journey, I I have to recognize that I need to change. And change means tangible, practical, I'm an engineer after all. You know, some something where you can really take steps to to change, and change means improve.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and so I think and I don't know, Michael, have you ever heard of the former the the quarterback prior to Tom Brady for the Patriots, Drew Bledsoe? Do you know that? Yes. So when Drew Bledsoe was replaced originally by Tom Brady, there was a sports radio host around in Massachusetts named Eddie Annelman. And one of the comments he made about Tom Brady is he said, Tom Brady may not have the same arm Drew Bledsoe has, but he has this it quality to lead, to win, to be successful. And I think what you're talking about is a drive to be better, a passion for growth. Yes. And I'd love to know from you because it seems as a and I've gotten to know you for quite a while now, and it seems a little innate to you that that that's part of who you are and the fiber of who you are. Where did that come from? Who were your influencers? Where where do you think did Where did that come from?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And so, you know, when when you look back and say who who influenced you, helped shape you, you know, when when I was in more junior positions, there were um people who were in leadership roles who were thoughtful. Uh th they did engage in thinking back on on that. And uh they took the time. So if you sent a question or had a question, they walked you through the answer. It it wasn't a quick kind of uh let me get rid of this guy because he's a junior you know person in the organization. Um so that was uh very much it. Uh, you know, other my uh the leader I had, uh Patrick Appleby, who was over at uh Win Residential, he was a uh a tricky terrific influence on that. He was a terrific um leader. And and it was through listening, engagement, being uh clear and fair. Uh and my current boss Tom Sloan, I have to give props to Tom for uh uh the the elements that he's brought of that style of leadership where uh it's it's the the modern leadership, um being more in touch with your your teams and and using uh again what I think a modern leadership stuff.
SPEAKER_01So okay, we're gonna continue that when we come back from our first break. Um for Michael Ferguson, I am Mark Altman. We'll be back after the break.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to iCommunicate on full service radio, 830 WCRM. To join the conversation, call 508-871-7000. Now, here's your host, Mark Altman.
SPEAKER_01Okay, welcome back to iCommunicate. If you'd like to call the show, it's 508-871-7000 here with uh Michael Ferguson, the VP of Engineering for GID. Michael, I want to kind of continue with what we were talking about right in the break. You were talking about influencers and mentors you've had, and you mentioned Tom Sloan. And um, so what is it, you know, you talked about modern leadership. So what is it specifically? Do you feel like you've learned from him? So one of the things you've learned from.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so so very much um the style of creating the team, and and the team may already exist, but does it exist in a identified group? I I think naturally we want to be part of teams, we support teams, we want to be included in things. Uh so one thing Tom did was to uh create groups and and define those groups, and it wasn't a group where you sat latently, you were there was there was a uh an expectation of active participation in those groups. Um no wallflowers, but not everyone's talking at once. Um and keeping the conversation going, so regular meetings, regular communication, uh which I think it fostered multiple people from different business units knowing what was going on, what was happening together. There may be some things where one thing you were were working on was connected to someone else's business, and so you would bridge that gap if if there was one before, and then it would spin off a conversation between those two business groups.
SPEAKER_01Well, one of the things I mean, there's a few things you said there, but the thing that really resonated and stuck out to me is it sounds like Tom's really focused on the culture of the groups. Yes. And that's what it's all about, right? Because the culture defines everything in an organization and within a team, right? Yes. So and not only do you define the culture, by setting expectations and by being visible and available for those teams, that sends a message that hopefully cascades all the way through the organization.
SPEAKER_02I think it does. Yeah, that um availability, the the the transparency of what's going on. If there's uh you know, there are issues in every business, but let's let's frame out the issue clearly, let's talk about it, let's not hide, let's not uh you know, push it to one side, let's talk about it openly, let's get input, let's talk about it together, solicit all those ideas and input that might help solve that problem.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I know you've also, you know, I I I want to talk about the concept of shifting mindsets. And when when we talk about shifting mindsets, certainly there's two pieces there, right? Shifting your own mindset, and then there's shifting other people's mindset. And such a big part of the at Mindset Go when we train and coach people is you're gonna more effectively manage other people when you learn to manage yourself. Yes. Right? And where I want to go with this is um time, being busy. And you and I had a conversation earlier this morning offline, and I thought some of the points you made were just phenomenal about being busy and the mindset around being busy. So I think for so many leaders, find me a leader today, Michael, who says, Oh, I'm not busy at all. Like that doesn't exist. Everybody's busy, right? But I'd like me to share with our audience, I thought it was pretty profound, you know, just your mindset and thoughts around that phrase, I'm busy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So I you know, busy is um I think that's exactly it, Mark. You know, to me that's a it's a mindset, and you know, I'm I'm gonna reach out on the engineering rope for a second and pull it in. The day is made up of units of time. And rather than saying, I'm busy, should you really say, Where do I fit that in? And and fit it in means to not just plug every gap so your day is um beleaguered with you know meetings and you're not you're not there fully invested. But where do you structure and thoughtfully plan so that you do uh create time for all those leadership um engagements with with you with your team, meetings with your team, listening opportunities with your team. You you create those. Uh no one's too busy to have those.
SPEAKER_01But it's like the point I made before when you said I have to change. For you it was innate. You've recognized the value in doing it. It's the same thing with being busy. I mean, we talked about uh I know you've spoken highly about your director of people and culture and how she just you know had you do some stay interviews. And you know, stay interviews take time, and especially if you have a large team. So the the thing you and I were talking about was so if you have a let's say you have an eight-person team for the sake of argument, and you have to do 45 minute to one hour stay interviews, that's eight hours of time you didn't have. And so you had to now budget that time. And the point you made to me earlier, which I thought was amazing, is you look at engagement time, blocking off engagement time, being available for your team, being a support system and a mentor and a coach for your team. You view that as part of your priorities and responsibilities, and you go about your week that way, correct? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. And I think that ties to the modern leadership, you know, because um that might have been a not might not have been a common practice in you know years past, decades past. Um but that's exactly it, is you you build those blocks of time. That that engagement is is so important, and you can never think of it as um oh I have to do this because it's fulfilling some obligation. It is uh you know, two-way engagement. Uh the the the learning, the the understanding you have of a situation or a person, um it that comes back to you tenfold. And and you don't do one because you get the other. It's it's a natural uh a natural way to do it. And in terms of the the scheduling, once you've done it and you get used to it, it's background and it's and it's happened. And so then it's not a stress that you're thinking about, it's just something that you're doing and you build your future week and month around those things.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think part of what you're talking about there is word choice. You know, I have to, I need to versus I want to. And to me, it's not just so much of being a good leader is I I know this sounds awful, but you kind of have to manipulate yourself. And so if I'm thinking to myself, I have to do these stay interviews, I need to do these stay interviews, it feels like a burden, it feels like a daunting task. I don't want people just to shift have to and need to to want to. This is what I want them to do. I want them to say, I want to do these stay interviews, and here's why. I want you to understand your own why. Because we're always as leaders talking about influencing other people by sharing the why. But how about sharing it with yourself? True. Like what's the why? Yeah. I think that's an important element in that mindset shift.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. And I I think you know, you you made a great point there, Mark, was that it's it's it's not have to. It's I really enjoy that time. It it is. I look forward to those opportunities. Um it's not always about business. My team, my team is fully remote. We've never been together, so it's often uh you know a dreaded Teams or Zoom meeting, but it's still uh embrace that, get past that, and really enjoy that time uh because it's it's critical both ways.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I want to go back to um an analogy and get your thoughts on this because I I believe very strongly in this. You talked earlier about being a soccer coach, you know. And to me, if you are coaching kids, I don't care anywhere from middle school, high school, whatever, even late elementary school, you may work with those kids for two or three months. And you that two or three months can absolutely enormously impact the confidence of those kids, the motivation of those kids, the engagement of those kids. We've all seen bad coaches, we've all seen the impact those coaches can have. If you choose to be a sports coach, you are modeling behavior, you are taking on a responsibility. When you're a leader, too many leaders, and whether it's inexperience, whether it's attitude, whether it's mindset, whatever it is, too many leaders don't relish and recognize that you are a behavior modeler. Every day you are on, you're performing because you're impacting the lives and the confidence and the engagement. The productivity and the all the buzzwords in corporate America. Yes. And and and and I think, Michael, part of the challenges of leadership, and this is what I love your thoughts on, is for the people who don't see that as part of their responsibilities, who it feels like a burden to them, what do we do? Because the negative toxic impact that can have, how you can't even necessarily quantify that in a lot of cases.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. You know, if if you were really stuck, I I'd say go go do it. Go go do it. And sometimes go doing it doesn't mean to say with the whole team for a full hour every week. Start small. Start small. Fifteen minutes uh engagement, but it's um the expectation. And the expectation part of that is the communication. Hey, I'm going to invite you to just talk for 15 minutes and and we'll talk about, you know, again, sometimes it doesn't have to be about business, but it but it's about understanding and in the conversation, regardless of subject, you you'll engage and you'll get to learn and you'll get to to listen and understand. Um and the person who you're speaking with will learn something about you. And I'd start small. Like just take 15 minutes with one or two people, reflect how did it work. You might even find that you did enjoy it, and and then you're self-encouraged, and you know, then you want to do more, and more could be another two people or thirty minutes or some flavor of it. Build up to that, I I would say.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and you know, before we head into our next break, I just want to make one final point. You know, you talked about Tom's impact on group culture and how it's impacted your effort in building a culture for your team. You know, we are in a situation, Michael, when you talk about I have to change, the world has changed. Modern leadership, you can't lead the way you used to lead. It doesn't work. Generational communication is bigger and more important than it's ever been. We have a new generation in the workplace, they have different needs, they have different wants, they're motivated differently, they like feedback, they like to have a sense of purpose. And I think that embracing the fact that instead of saying, oh, you know, these damn millennials are instead of resenting that we do need to be different, how about no, this is good because the world's evolving, it's improving, we're learning more about human beings. That's a good thing, right? Yeah, absolutely. So, all right. Well, when we come back uh for our next segment, we're gonna talk more uh to Michael about a couple of things. First of all, I'd love to know with Michael um the mindset piece like we talked about. Because Michael, I've known you for a few years, and I and and you can push back when we come back if you disagree. But three or four years ago, when we talked about some of these concepts around prioritizing engagement in people, I'm not so sure you would have agreed three or four years ago. Is that a fair statement? Swahili. Okay. So when we come back, we're gonna talk about how Michael made the mindset shift himself. Um, what what made the mindset shift, why he's become so passionate about people and engaging people. So for I Communicate, I'm Mark Altman and I'm with Michael Ferguson. We'll be right back.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to iCommunicate on full service radio, 830 W U C R N. To join the conversation, call 508-871-7000. Now, here's your host, Mark Altman.
SPEAKER_01Okay, welcome back to I Communicate here with Michael Ferguson. And Michael, you know, I teased right before the break. So, you know, and and I guess this is where I want to start, right? So whenever an executive to me decides to invest their time to grow personally and professionally and get coaching, I all right out of the gate, I have an immense amount of respect because I were I I see so many executives that struggle to be vulnerable, struggle to recognize their blind spots and act on their blind spots. So I have an immense amount of respect. So I guess my first question for you before before we talk about the shift is you know, what gave you the courage and confidence to do it? Um talk about a little bit of that backstory where all of a sudden you said, you know what? I'm gonna call Mark and do coaching.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Um I mean to to to go back to the the the origin of that was to really really recognize that in in myself that I I had to change. Um and so you know if I I don't know if I realized, you know, but you've you've taught me through it, Mark, that is a that that's a moment. So so the recognition is is a moment. I I didn't realize that. Um and to and uh you know I I think you really do have to admit that you're you're you're either you've I'm gonna say stuck, but maybe plateaued. Um recognizing that you do need help is is difficult for any I think anyone to admit what whatever the subject is. Um I think there's that real sense of uh I I would say like don't don't be afraid to recognize that in yourself. Embrace that and embrace that sense of change and and recognition in yourself that that you have to change. And it's um there's there's not a stigma with it. You know, it's it's not it's not a bad thing, it's uh oh you need help because you you can't do it. It's I am choosing to go get help so I can be successful, so my company can be successful. And even like the parenting that that you brought up, Mark, yeah, so I can be a better, a better dad to my boys because I'm learning these different ways of communicating.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and there and let's face it, there is a stigma with it in many cases for people that are hard for executives to overcome. And I think one of the things I've seen in you, I said, you know, so I started working with Michael, I don't know, three or four years ago, and then there was a few years' break, and then we started back up. But the first time around, when I work with you, one of the things I would say, and I've never told you this before, is there was no question about your commitment and engagement level in coaching. That's been there from day one. Where I think I've seen a shift is I think there were some aspects of coaching that were procedural for you. I think that you looked as coaching as like an engineer. I need to get better. So I'm gonna do coaching and I'm gonna follow these steps and I'm gonna do that. And this time around, I don't see that at all. I see um someone who really is processing intellectually and through your heart, like you're really processing in a different way. So does that surprise you to hear me say that? Because I do I do see I see that shift.
SPEAKER_02I mean, it doesn't surprise me what the start point was. Uh, you know, I'll I'll go back to, you know, I I grew up in England and um English people are not touchy-feely, you know, talk about your emotions. Uh it is kind of get on with it. You know, so there is very much a if you if you came into a situation you weren't comfortable with, you would power through it, right? You wouldn't necessarily talk to somebody, you wouldn't seek out help, you would just say, Urg, got gotta get through this. And um so and and I think that's uh uh that that's an old, that's that's decades old mentality. I'm I'm sure it's different today, but that's that's kind of where I came from. So it doesn't surprise me that I was rote process uh going through the motions. Um I'm happy to hear that you see it's it's differently today. And and I think you know, part of the the the environmental change and people who influence you, like that that that all becomes a fabric of your own personal change.
SPEAKER_01So let me just get this straight. You conquered the stigma and stereotype of being an engineer. Yeah. You conquered the stigma and stereotype of being British. You caught you you got coaching, you didn't worry about that stereotype of, oh, you're doing great, you got the hat trick going there. That's pretty good. Um so so you know, one just side question I have uh before we go to that mindset shift piece is um it's a two-part question. Have you told your kids you're getting coaching? And do you how do you and how do you share the lessons and apply it to being a better parent and dad?
SPEAKER_02So yes, I didn't for a long time. Um but recent recently I did. And I I wanted them to understand, and this is part of your your coaching for me, was to, you know, maybe part of that stigmatism. Like it's vulnerable. It's okay, dad's not, you know, uh bulletproof. And um I I need help and you know, maybe it's where that recognition, right? So me, I'm I'm I'm dad, and whatever you think I do for work, because your kids rarely know what you do for work, um that you do need help and you do need to be better and you do need to change, and there's a a vehicle and a program to do that, and I I think it's relatable to them as they go through uh my sons are 17 and 12, and so you know that they're going through various stages of um schooling where they they have to change, they have to think and behave differently and uh be more connected to um homework and listening and um sort of taking information and translating that into sort of you know core learning, not just kind of listening and writing, it's it's that transformation into the absorption of learning. So I think it's a good influence, like to tell your kids I needed help, I recognized it, I sought it out, I tried it, it was successful, and and I'm I I feel the success.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think what we're talking about in one of the best qualities you can teach a child, in my opinion, is their ability to advocate for themselves, right? And so for you to recognize, hey, I wanted help, um, you're doing fine. Like there was nothing broken, right? You wanted help just because of your drive for growth and improvement. You wanted help. And so now if I'm a child, if I'm your son, I'm hitting and going, wait a minute. So if I'm not great at everything, if I need help, if I recognize I have some deficiencies in certain areas, wait, maybe I'll ask for help. Like that is one of the most valuable lessons you can teach your kids.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And and you know, it could be uh time after school with a teacher be an out-of-school tutor. It's that's okay. Like it's really it's better than okay, right? It's it's optimum. It's it's the best path.
SPEAKER_01And here we are again, Michael. We see the cycle continue to repeat. Leaders do as I say or do as I do. How many parents and executives are listening to this show and going, Yeah, that's a good idea that Michael did that? Well, let's let's let's think about are you the kind of parent who is saying to your children, you really should ask for help if you need it? It's really a good idea. Well, why don't you look in the mirror? Why don't you start sharing some examples with your children of when you've done that so you can actually model the behavior and share those stories to influence your kids to say that, hey, mom and dad aren't perfect, just as you said, Michael. So it's one thing to say, yeah, I love that Michael did that. It's another thing to say, wait a minute, I better start sharing some stories with my kids.
SPEAKER_02So Yeah, and those stories can be, you know, the how how was the week, how was the day? Well, let's simple as that. With the challenge I had. Yep. You know, here's something I'll add to, and not just um let me complain over the dinner table. It's this came up today, and first I thought it was this, but I looked more closely, we peeled it back, the root cause was this, and the outcome was, you know, something else.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and when I and I I think, Michael, one one of the things is kids are going to learn empathy from their parents. And so a lot of parents are afraid to share their day or share their struggles because they don't want to be a burden, because it's so tough for kids as it is, I don't want to be an additional burden. We're not asking you to be codependent, right? Like there's a difference between codependent and just sharing to share. And if your intention and motive is to share, so kids can see you have struggles just like them, and for them, that's good parenting. If it's to be a codependent, that's not good parenting. So you just have to discern motives. Like that's all it is.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_01Um, so like I said before our last break, you know, three, four years ago, you've made some mindset shifts, prioritizing people, prioritizing that block of engagement time. Was it gradual? Was there some significant events along the way that said, geez, like I do like leadership, but man, I'm missing some fundamentally important pieces of impacting and influencing my team, and I need to act.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was um so so that the the first thing I did, which was like I think crossing that boundary of the the the time that we talked about and the find the time, allocate the time. I I I went through that struggle of okay, so for eight people every two weeks, one hour for a one-on-one, whoa, that's a that's a big chunk of time. Right. But again, you put it on the calendar and you have the conversations and and everything that yields both ways, and now it's background and and and it's looked forward to and it's enjoyed. It's it's again, it's it's part of that fabric of of the week.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, and and and I think, you know, I think what you said is that when we talk about a mindset shift, there's three I call I do this thing, Michael, I call it rookie pro all-star. And rookie is the bare minimum you would do. The pro is an upgrade in the all-star. The rookie leader says, you know, God, I gotta meet with my team, you know, once a week for an hour. Like, because that's what I'm supposed to do. Right. The pro leader says, I want to meet with my team once a week so they can see how they can develop and grow. But the all-star is what you described in Tom, is I'm excited to build a culture around my team so we have those meetings, they're impactful and they're engaging, and people are willing to speak their truth because I've created psychological safety. Yes. So that's the Rookie Pro All-Star. And, you know, when we come back for our final segment, um, we're gonna get into some of the challenges Michael has experienced in modern leaderships somewhat recently and how he's overcome those challenges. So we'll be back from Michael Ferguson. I'm Mark Altman. We'll be right back.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to iCommunicate on Full Service Radio, 830 WCRN. To join the conversation, call 508-871-7000. Now, here's your host, Mark Altman.
SPEAKER_01So I just want to say to our listeners, I just want to make a point. This this guy that does the voiceover for WCRN, like I kind of want his voice. And but but but the big news, Michael, even though you're not a big Star Wars guy, the big news recently was that James Earl Jones, the voice of Darth Vader, gave up his voice rights. And I was devastated. Like I was devastated. James Earl Jones, like, if I come reborn again, I want to have James Earl Jones' voice. Like that voice is mythical. Like even in Lion King, when he plays Mufasa, like that voice is mythical. So I just listen, I, you know, I I guess I like my voice, but man, that that voice over guy is pretty good. All right. So, Michael, let's get back to this. So, what I want to ask you is, you know, you've made quite a few transitions. And I guess my first question for you is what do you think one of the biggest transitions you've made mindset-wise? We talked about the engagement piece, but like just from a mindset, what do you think in the last three to five years has been one of your biggest transitions?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I think within probably the last two years, that transition of um, you know, c create the team, create the culture, create the opportunity to speak, uh, openness, um, everyone has a voice, there's there's input. It's it's not chaotic, everyone's you know, jumbled over each other, but um it's certainly to get input which leads to buy-in, which leads to the better end product. So when you launch something, you've you've had uh m multiple influences of uh of you know contribution to to make that stronger. Um I think that's very uh important to have that openness um in your culture. And you know, I if I'm out in the field again, our our real estate assets are all across the country, my team is is remote. Um my mentality in the field is um w when I go to to visit the team, look at a property, you know, walk it together is uh it's just me, right? It's this is not some VIP tour. This is not um I I want to come meet with you and I want to see where you are, and I want to understand your challenges, and I want to understand your needs because I want to take those and find a solution for you or encourage a different thought that makes you more successful.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I heard you say a couple of things there. First, and as an extension of the first point you made, the shift of mindset is investing in your people and prioritizing the time, right? Like that's one. Yes. And in the second thing you said, that's not a small thing, and I and I think we should talk about that. You were talking about removing the hierarchy, right? And you know, the old school leadership, we've talked about modern, the old school leadership is if you're my boss, come into my office, I'm gonna sit behind my desk, you're gonna sit on the other side of the desk. There's no question who's in charge. I'm behind the desk, I'm in charge, and you're gonna listen to me, and this is what's gonna happen. And I think, Michael, so many leaders miss the opportunity to remove that hierarchy. Lead with authority without being in authority, right? There's this attitude of like I have to show I'm in charge. You don't. You don't. That's not necessary. And so for you to say when you show up on those properties, you're visiting personnel, making people feel special, making people feel valued, um, that's your way of connecting with people, and that's a big mindset shift.
SPEAKER_02It it is. And and what it does is it it exactly as you said, it it eliminates a wall or a barrier of you shouldn't speak to that person. Right, you know, you and and so you know, I I love talking to every member of the team. Um and there isn't always a lot of time to do it, but it's it's to it's if you do it every time, and if you wanted to do it on a on an increasing fashion, what happens is the the team that you visit, and and this is like once or twice a year, is you you do build that culture. It might take you a few years of it's it's okay, right? It's it's disarming. Uh it's not something to to worry about. There is an openness, and with with openness becomes comfort, and with comfort comes better communication, more more open communication. Um and you know, to to pick up on a few themes we've talked about this morning is if if you're not getting that um honest direct feedback in communication, you can't be successful with your team, and and probably the company itself can't be successful because if everyone's afraid to speak in these silos of operation, that's that's not good business.
SPEAKER_01Well, and that, frankly, Michael, the silo component that you mentioned, with so many uh remote arrangements and hybrid arrangements now, that's become crisis level for so many companies. Is how do we how do we keep people collaborating, communicating out of silos? You know, what what are a step or two you've taken to address that? Do you have some remote people that you manage? Well, you must.
SPEAKER_02You have a different sites and those. Of course you do. Yeah. So, you know, the the the property teams, um, everyone's remote. Everyone's working in uh you know a geographic location across the US. Uh my team is is fully remote. And uh so so we we take the the opportunity, I shouldn't say we take we create the opportunity to to have meetings, the one-on-ones, to be in the field with each other. And again, that's not part of I'm coming to look and uh observe and give you a score. It's not about that we're gonna be, you know, we're talking to each other now. I the other realization and I often say to others is that when when you're visiting with your team and you and you're in the car from one location to the other, that is where the magic happens. It's it's not in the formality of a meeting. So maybe one thing is to strip the formality, not to lose structure and not to lose respect um or the opportunity, but chit-chatting in the car and and catching up is um it it that that's it. It's like where the magic happens, where people open up, where you can have honest, candid conversations. Uh you could be vulnerable. Someone may tell you something, you could say, you know what, I I've had the same thing, I've shared that experience, and and here's what I've done in that situation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I think that's really big. And I think people have to people have to believe you authentically care. Yes. You know, when there's there's this phrase authentic leadership, we do we do some programs with companies on authentic leadership, but authenticity, like I can teach you how to be more authentic, but you've got to want to be authentic. Like if it feels forced and phony to you, it doesn't work. Like, so you can learn the skills to come across as authentic, but to your point, you've got to care, you've got to want to have those conversations. And I've got to be honest with you, Michael, I find that a lot of leaders are scared to have those conversations because they feel like people will go off the rails, not have boundaries about what they talk about, and then they'll get sucked into this long winded conversation, to which I would say so it sounds like your fear is about your inability to redirect or segue the conversation.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right? Because that's really what it is. Yes. Someone goes off the rails, there's a communication skill that you need to rein them back in. That's all, right?
SPEAKER_02Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01So, okay, last piece for today is so what are you seeing, you know, in your team, in your organization, what are some of the challenges you've seen with teams, with individuals, and what are some uh steps you've taken to address some of those challenges?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. So I I uh growth is good, you know, more is is great, and you know, we're a growing company. Uh you're asking people to do more. And if there isn't a you know another person, another resource or or system to do that, it really is then reliant on coaching and helping your team to focus and and it's focused on highest and best use of their skill set, so they'll, you know, one, they'll enjoy it more. But think through what what do you do on a daily, weekly, monthly basis that you could just stop doing. Uh what could you delegate to someone else? And delegating means you're also growing someone else, you're you're you're releasing, you're letting go, which is difficult in of itself. Um and then you're you've you've got that focused time to really do more, and and do more may mean those hour-long slots for those those engagements. It may be something for you personally which is business beneficial or gives you the time to go out and engage in the field with the teams, which then comes back in, you know, that's uh probably the the the best thing you could do, uh perform a function or or get out and engage.
SPEAKER_01Now, from you mentioned the word focus, so I know we've talked in the past about you know, we're seeing attention and focus as a trouble for teams these days. You know, what are some things you've done that we could classify even under executive presence to keep people focused, attentive, and sustain that engagement level?
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell Yeah, absolutely. So so we had a regional meeting last week, and you know, th thinking through that the themes and the message that that you want to carry and the the way in which you can communicate to a group is well, let me put a PowerPoint together, right? And how to lose a group in you know within seven minutes is a PowerPoint presentation. So we we broke out a uh the the Kahoot app and we built questions in the Kahoot format, uh which is something we've done recently as a company. So so taking that example, and you build the questions into Kahoot, the answers that you provide, and um that that becomes a part of the conversation. But the the biggest thing we found is that it was the self-realization from the group, the message that you wanted to carry was uh wasn't uh well it it actually was we need to do better on this, we gotta change and do better on that. But the way it came out was here's some like fun statistics and and data, and this this is where we're at, and you could see in the room everyone was putting together, ah, we need to do differently here. And you didn't have to say it. And and it didn't feel like this um like corrective behavior or uh berating things.
SPEAKER_01Well, what you did, Michael, what you did is you uh you created an uh receptivity, right? Yeah. So yeah so people were receiving, and that's what presentations are talking about focus and engagement. The whole purpose of is so the information's received, people are open-minded and processed. Um that's amazing. And um so I just got to tell you, Michael, it it's it's just been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. I I have so much, you know, we've worked together for a while, but I I have so much respect. Um, you always come um engaged, prepared. You're always applying the techniques we're learning. Your desire and passion for growth is something obviously that resonates with me. So um glad we're glad we're colleagues, glad we know each other, and I'm thrilled you were on the show today. Thanks for being on.
SPEAKER_02Well, me too, and I and I appreciate all the enlightenment and structure you've brought to uh to my realization and growth. So thank you, Mark.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. All right, so for if you want more information on how to use MindsetGo for some leadership, communication, sales training, uh building company culture, remote teams, etc., the number is nine seven eight seven nine three one one five nine, or you can email info at mindsetgo.com. From Michael Ferguson, I am Mark Altman Jazz. Thank you very much, and we'll see you next time.
