MindsetGo iCommunicate Podcast
Welcome to the iCommunicate Podcast where we develop the mindset and provide communication strategies to foster confidence, emotional intelligence, as well as organizational, team, or personal growth. Our progress and improvement is not limited to a training session; it embodies a constant cycle of self-reflection and continued learning on individual and communal levels.
MindsetGo iCommunicate Podcast
ICommunicate Radio Show #169: Speaking Your Truth: Quiet Quitters
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Welcome to iCommunicate on Full Service Radio 830 WCRN. To join the conversation, call 508-871-7000. Now, here's your host, Mark Altman.
SPEAKER_00Okay, welcome to iCommunicate. As always, thrilled to be here with you. And uh today we're gonna be talking about a topic that we can't get away from right now, but as I always do, we're gonna take a different spin on it today. And the topic is quiet quitting. And uh, you know, it got me thinking. It got me thinking about superpowers. And I know this is gonna give away my age, but I am 50, and I'm not ashamed of it. I mean, I feel older than 50 at times, but that's for another show. And uh, you know, I remember when I was a kid, I watched The Super Friends. And that was like the, I don't know if it's a cartoon, I guess it was a cartoon, but I love the super friends. And of course, you know, superheroes are big now with Marvel comics and all the all the things, but Green Lantern, I don't know what it was about Green Lantern, but I love that he had that ring that he could he could create things from that Green Lantern ring. And, you know, as I've gotten older and theoretically matured, that would be open for debate. Uh, you know, it I always I started to ask myself as I got older, I said, God, if I had if I could have a superpower now, uh, you know, what would I want that superpower to be? And I and I mentioned on a show a few months ago that I talked about the superpower I'd wanted to be is reading people's minds. And you know, I had said that to my therapist, and I just want to share this brief anecdote again. She said, if it were me, it would be reading people's hearts. And I was like, wow, that's profound. Like, I really love that. And but for today, I want to go back to reading people's minds related to quiet quitting. When you look back at how things have unfolded in our world in the last two and a half plus years, you know, the biggest thing that has created stress for so many people is the fear of the unknown. And I I've joked, uh I joke, I call it the Great Toilet Paper Scare of 2020. And, you know, I often, when I when I work with leadership teams and training, and I often say, you know, what was the root of the Great Toilet Paper Scare of 2020? And the point I always make is the root of it was so many things were out of control, so much unknown existed that people rushed to the supermarket and said, I sure as hell don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, but I'm definitely going to have enough toilet paper. And as simplistic as that sounds, that's the reality of what it was. And because there is so much unknown, when you look at the superpower of reading someone's mind, why would a person want that superpower? Because you'd want to know what they were thinking, you'd want to know what they were thinking about you, about the situation, about others, so there wouldn't be unknown. There wouldn't be ambiguity. You wouldn't have to guess, you would just know how to act, how to respond, how to behave based on having that information. And I believe in my heart that there are three superpowers, leaders. These would be, if you said to me, Mark, there's a hundred, there could be a hundred core competencies that go into being a good leader. Okay, but pick your top three. Like if you could only do these three things as a leader, what would they be? And this is what my big three would be in order, in descending order. Number three would be the ability to capture people's attention and sustain it, right? Because isn't that what we're always trying to do in the world? Is we're trying to capture people's attention. You know, you know, people say all the time, well, we're all salespeople, right? Because we're all in a position where we can motivate and influence people to act. It could be, you know, if you're if you have a peers, it could be you want to motivate them to do what you want to do on the weekend, right? The activity you want to do on the weekend. If you have a partner, a life partner, it could be what you choose to do when you spend time together and you hopefully influence that outcome. But the reality is the number three superpower, if you have the ability to capture and sustain people's attention, I mean, that's pretty special. Because you know what that means? That means you're interesting enough to be listened to and to be watched. So that would be third. The second one would be the ability to shift your own as well as other people's mindset. Because when people are in a bad place, they have a bad attitude, are emotionally attached to a perspective, become irrational, become rigid. If you had that superpower where you knew how to influence them to be in a different place mentally and emotionally, that's pretty special. Jazz, wouldn't you want that? Poor Jazz. I put her on the spot, she was funny. Right? So, so and Jazz, can you think of someone in your life right now that has the ability, whether it's a a a professor, a teacher, an influencer, a role model, where you can say, Yeah, you know what, they have that, they had that ability with me to move me if I wasn't in good space.
SPEAKER_02Oh, for sure. I definitely have a couple friends that, you know, just motivate me on a different level when I'm in my little mood and don't want to do things, you know, bring me back to reality and go, no, you do have people that care about you and you are a wonderful woman and keep doing it.
SPEAKER_00So, so when Jazz says, I want because there's something she said there that stuck out to me, she does, I do have friends that know what to do or say when they see me in that space. And and frankly, what's and this is where I'm going to the number one superpower, because before I get there, the whole thing about human beings is everybody's different. Everybody's flawed, everybody has their own set of baggage. And so when you, you know, you hear a lot on social media, you know, you need to meet people where they're at, right? That's like this generic expression people throw out there now. But meeting people where they're at is being self-aware enough to adapt your communication style, your personality, your leadership approach, the way you you deal with people based on who that person is.
SPEAKER_02Well, and making sure you're very respectful of their triggers and their boundaries, too, right?
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell Well, that's right. And you know, a lot of work I'm doing now with with companies across the country is generational communication. You know, this is a hot button issue. A lot of companies are struggling with succession, their next generation of leaders in recruiting that, uh recruiting and having culture accommodate everybody's wants, needs, boundaries, generational preferences, and things like that. So that's the ability to shift people's mindsets and influence people and accept where they are, that is an incredible superpower. And the single biggest superpower, no one can convince me of anything otherwise, is that you make people so comfortable that they will tell you anything, that they will speak their truth. And the whole premise behind quiet quitting fascinates me because the ultimate, ultimate compliment that you could get as a leader to me when it comes to creating a culture of psychological safety and getting people to speak their truth is someone on your team comes up to you one day and says, Hey, listen, Jim, I gotta be honest with you, I really have loved working with you. I respect you a lot, and I'm not that happy here. And I think I want to look for another job. Now think about that for a second. How many people would feel comfortable telling their boss that they're looking for another job and they're not happy and not worried about being fired and not worried about consequences, repercussions? That's fantasyland. That is absolute utopia fantasy land. Like that does not happen, and if it does, it is the absolute outlier, right? So that's what we're talking about getting people comfortable to speak their truth. I have a I have a friend of mine whose son has been he's at he's in high school and he's been taking the parents' car without them knowing. So he's been telling me about it. So, you know, what's a typical parent reaction when someone's taking your car without them telling you? Well, they're gonna be in trouble and they're gonna get punished, and there's gonna be consequences to that. And I thought, and so as my friend's telling me this, he goes, Yeah, so he took the car away for like two months. And I said, Well, that's one way to look at it. I said, Because if it were me, I'd be more interested in having a conversation of why did the child feel the need to lie in the first place? And that's what I mean about speaking their truth. So when we come back from our first break, we're gonna talk more about how to get that superpower and create that psychological safe culture. For i Communicate, I'm Mark Altman. We'll be right back.
SPEAKER_01Welcome to iCommunicate on full service radio, 830 WCRM. To join the conversation, call 508-871-7000. Now, here's your host, Mark Altman.
SPEAKER_00Okay, welcome back to iCommunicate. So, right right before the break, we were talking about, you know, the concept of what's the real issue. Is it that they're taking the car or they don't feel comfortable telling you the truth about why they can't ask you permission for the car or whatever. So the reality is, I want us to take a step back and look at quiet quitting a little differently. And I want to look at it in personal relationships. So think about people who quietly quit in intimate relationships. Think about that for a second. You know, I know that um when people cheat on their spouses or partners, part of the reason they cheat is because they feel they're entitled to cheat. Because they've been disappointed. This is their rationalization, right? They've been disappointed, they've been wronged, and so because I'm not getting what I need, I get to cheat. Right? That's a form of quiet quitting, right? So you're basically saying, I'm quitting on the relationship, I'm taking the law into my own hands, so I'm gonna do whatever I want. I've just quit on the relationship. People quit on relationships all the time in partners. It's so common, but we never hear of quiet quitting in a personal relationship. Yet it happens constantly. Okay? How about this? How about people who force their kids to do things they don't want, like play sports or do extracurricular activity or join a club or something like that. And the kid doesn't feel like they have a vote, so they go through the motions, they're not engaged, they're not involved, probably internalizing frustration and resentment all along the way. But that's a form of quiet quitting. I mean, they're going through the motions, but they're not really invested in the success of the effort. So quiet quitting has been around for a long, long time, well before it ever approached corporate America. And whether it's relationships with your children or activities with your children or personal relationships, what is it really about? Quiet quitting to me means potentially an inability to have a courageous or assertive conversation to express your thoughts, your feelings, your concerns, your wants, and your needs. Okay, so when it comes to relationships in general, whether it's personal or professional relationships, what are you personally doing to facilitate a culture where someone can feel comfortable speaking up for what they need and want? And one of the challenges in personal relationships, and this definitely transitions and translates over to professional relationships, is how people respond to communication. And one of the challenges I see in the workplace is, and I'm going to use the example of managing up. And for those of you who aren't familiar with the expression, managing up is the relationship you have with your boss, the relationship with you have with other leaders at the company that have a title above you, the CEO, whatever. So we're talking about managing up. So when someone manages up and they are going to talk about something that is frustrating them or concerning them, what is the expectation that person has related to the outcome of that conversation? So if I work for Jasmine and I don't like her leadership style and she's doing something that frustrates me or I feel disrespectful or something along those lines, and I decide I'm going to talk to Jasmine, I'm not talking to her with the expectation she's going to change her behavior. I'm talking to her because I think it's important to communicate how I am feeling about her actions and how the impact that those actions are having on me, which by the way is very rarely shared in these kinds of conversations.
SPEAKER_02Well, it also gives me feedback on how to be a better boss, right?
SPEAKER_00Well, Jasmine, that's important too, because a lot of times in these conversations, people legitimately have blind spots and they don't even know how they're coming across. And the reality is that so many times when people express their thoughts and feelings on something, they'll say, Well, I'm frustrated because, but what they don't say is the impact. I'm frustrated because of what you did, as opposed to what you did, okay, this is how this is my observation, this is my perception, this is how this landed on me, this is how it impacted me. We don't usually share the impact, the personal impact it has on us. And so it takes two to tango. And you know, I really wanted to focus the beginning of this show today on the commun the advocators' role in psychological safety. What are your expectations when you're going to communicate something to someone? Well, for me, when I communicate something to someone that's near and dear to my heart and I'm passionate about or I'm frustrated about, here's the bare minimum hope. You'll notice I'm not saying expectation, hope. The hope is that they will listen, that the person will listen to understand and ask questions to be curious and learn more about my perspective and why I feel that way. That's my hope. And guess what? There's great news, everybody. You know how I can convert my hope to an expectation? Because in the beginning of the conversation, I will articulate that is my expectation. And so if Jasmine's the offender and she's the one not listening, I may start the conversation and say, Jasmine, listen. And I want our audience to listen very carefully to my words because there's a lot of things I'm doing to influence an outcome here. There's three different things I'm doing. Number one, Jasmine, I want to share some things with you, and I was hoping I would have some permission from you to give you some feedback. So first I'm asking for permission out of respect. Okay, and Jasmine says yes. So first, permission. Second, now keep in mind the first step asking permission, okay, if I'm the leader and Jasmine works for me, if the situation reversed, I don't have to ask her for permission, technically. She works for me. But why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't I give her that respect? Because I'm not better than her just because I have a higher title than her, right? So first thing I do is ask for permission. The second thing I do is I say, Jasmine, my intention in this conversation is not to make you feel guilty. It's not to make you feel bad. It's just to share some observations I've had and how they've impacted me. That's my only goal in the conversation. So now the second thing I've done is a technique I teach called the elephant in the room. And the elephant in the room is if I throw out there in the beginning I don't want Jasmine to feel bad or be defensive or whatever, I remove that. So now I hopefully get her more of her attention because I've removed that barrier. And the third thing I do is I'm clear about my objectives. So what I'm hoping happens in this conversation is that you'll listen to my perspective and be curious and perhaps ask questions for anything that doesn't make sense. That's my goal in the conversation. Now, if Jasmine in that moment says, I can do that, whether she succeeds at it or not is not relevant. It's now I can have the expectation because I stated what it was and she agreed to it. So now I can take that hope and convert it to an expectation. So three steps ask for permission, address the elephant in the room of how the person may respond to your feedback, and then set expectations for what you'd like to achieve in the conversation. Those are just the golden big three as a huge set of steps to create psychological safety in a conversation, at least as a starting point to set the tone. And so the bottom line is when you're the provider of the feedback, okay, I think it's important that you temper your expectations. If you're going to have expectations, you need to say what they are, and the other person has to agree to them. Because if you have expectations of what's going to happen in this conversation and the other person doesn't know that's what you expect, you're going to be set up to fail. And you know what's going to happen? You're going to get angrier and more resentful because you're going to say, Well, see, they didn't change. Well, did you ask them to change? Did you tell them specifically what you wanted? Or is it easier just to be frustrated and negative and disappointed? And so I think when it comes to psychological safety, there's typically a lot of responsibility and almost all the responsibility and pressure is put on the person in the hierarchy position. But I think both people have a role in an open and honest, transparent culture of communication. So it is critical to set those expectations. It is critical to get agreement so you know if those expectations can be met. And then the last piece of this is if you set those expectations about what you're hoping to achieve in that conversation, and the person agrees to meet them and then in the conversation doesn't meet them, what's the message there? Is it that it was a waste of time to have the conversation because they don't they didn't change? Is it why did I follow Mark's three-step process because it didn't work? They still got defensive, they still reacted, they still made themselves out to be a victim? You know, you could do that too, right? But the reality of communication is you have to have a success template. You have to have an approach that isn't guaranteed to work, but it's a foundational approach that when you use this approach, you can say, I did my part. Because you can't control other people's reactions, you can only influence them. But by doing that three-step approach, you're influencing an outcome. You're influencing a better chance to have success. And I think such an important part of communication is dialogue is two ways. And I think going in, your mindset, going into a conversation about how you're feeling about the workplace, your job, the company, your boss, your peers that is potentially causing you to be a quiet quitter, you've got to be clear what you want to accomplish in that conversation. So the leader or the person you're speaking to at least has a chance to be set up for success. And the mindset has to be to be clear about your outcomes and expectations. So when we come back for our next segment, we're going to turn the tables and we're going to talk. About obvious signs that leaders can be looking for to know you may have a quiet quitter among you. For Mark Altman, this is i Communicate. We'll be right back. Hey, welcome back to iCommunicate. Glad to be back. And uh as I promised, heading into the break, we will talk about, we're gonna turn the tables and we're gonna talk about signs you have a quiet quitter. However, we're gonna not gonna just give you generic signs. We're gonna talk about go in a little more detail. You know, sometimes, you know, when I research information like this, I'm often fascinated. You know, I work with a lot of HR executives and HR teams on how to help develop leaders and improve communication and culture. And, you know, when I sometimes when I Google and research things, I'm just fascinated by the amount of generic nonsense on the internet. And I think like, and this is what I mean, okay? So one of the indicators that that people will tell you is a sign of quiet quitting is disengagement on a chronic basis. Now I can't swear on the air, but I want to say no blank, Sherlock. Like, did we just impart new wisdom on anybody? Like, was anybody saying that go, really, disengagement on a chronic basis is a bad sign? So I just hate that, right? So to me, you you know disengagement's a bad sign, but the question is, if you notice disengagement, there's a couple of things going on here. Yes, you may have someone quiet quitting, but can you really tell the difference? Do you notice? And here's the problem with disengagement. The only way you would really notice disengagement is if you had a regular cadence of interaction with that employee in the first place. And one of the challenges we're seeing in remote and hybrid work arrangements now is people are talking less and less. Forget about face-to-face, that's a given. But people are talking less to less even virtually. And so for you to know someone has chronic disengagement or has had, forget about chronic disengagement, how about a shift in disengagement or shift in engagement, excuse me. Look at body language. Let me make an analogy for everybody. If you're having a conversation with someone and you're focused on what you want to say and what your objectives and goals are for the conversation, in the middle of the conversation, if a person's body language shifts, you may not even notice. Because you're so focused on what you're doing and what you're saying, what your goals are, right? So when it comes to someone who isn't as engaged in the workplace, it doesn't even have to be chronic. I mean, chronic's obvious. But how about someone who had an established pattern of engagement that's changed? And what is the track record of the change? Is it just been for a week? Has it been for a month? Has it been for two months? Would you even notice? Or would you pass it off and say, ah, they're just probably busy or they're just probably whatever? See, the whole thing about quiet quitting as a company and an organization, you have to care enough to notice. You have to put your own stuff aside and go, wait a minute, I'm so consumed with putting out fires all day and being reactive in my day-to-day responsibilities. Have I even looked up to see if there is any changes in a person's patterns and behaviors? And that's just what doesn't happen too often. So when you're looking for signs of a quiet quitter, yeah, a change in engagement level or chronic disengagement, yes, those are signs. And you have to notice. And that means you have to budget time to actually talk to your team and not just reactive one-on-one in team meetings where you're updating each other on everything that's going on in the company and you're putting out fires and solving problems. How about like understanding a person's job satisfaction? You know, what really annoys me about how we measure employee engagement is how do we measure employee engagement? Well, we do assessments. We'll give people an employee engagement assessment or an employee satisfaction assessment. We will interview them, we'll have discussions with them, or we'll ask them questions in a one-on-one meeting. But these things typically happen at most once a year, and sometimes less. Occasionally more, but usually it's an annual event during a performance review, maybe twice a year. But these kinds of questions to measure someone's engagement level, they need to be happening at worst in my experience quarterly. Once a quarter, have a conversation. And the sole focus of that conversation is I need to learn more about you. I need to understand what's going on in your world. How do you like your job? How do you like your coworkers? Is there anything I can do better to support you? Is there anything the organization can do better to support you? And how about things like this? Do you feel challenged? Do you feel a sense of purpose? Do you feel like you're directly impacting the success of the company? Do you feel like the company aligns with your core value system? Like I just rattled off seven, eight questions. By the way, you don't have to ask all these questions every quarter, right? Ask three, four, five questions every quarter, rotate them. You know, if you want more questions, we coach leaders on this all the time in HR departments. We can help. But the reality is you start from chronic disengagement or a shift in level of engagement. Yep, got it. Then you've got to notice. How do you notice? You make time to be visible for your team and to be interacting with people and asking and having conversations that are solely focused on their needs, wants, and level of engagement and satisfaction, not your goals, needs, and wants. So they're the focus of the discussion. And you don't fit it in five or ten minutes into a regular meeting and go, oh, by the way, we have 10 minutes. Hey, let's talk about this. Make it purposeful, make it intentional. And don't ask questions that don't offer value. And don't be afraid to ask questions because you're afraid of the answers. That's how you know. One of the major concepts when we teach emotional intelligence, there's nothing wrong with emotions. There's nothing wrong with them. We all have them. When we talk about emotions in the workplace, I think people get the wrong message. You can have emotions in the workplace. There's no problem with having emotions in the workplace. The problem is how you show up with those emotions, how you manage those emotions. Right? So think about this for a second. When someone has an emotion, that's information. That's a sign. If someone's disappointed or frustrated you, disappointed or frustrated, they're trying to tell you something. And it may not be the exact issue they're telling you they're frustrated about. If you have a son or a daughter that has siblings, and your son or daughter says to you, How come Billy gets to do this and I don't? Well, it could be just a petty thing, or it could be a cry for attention. It could be that that child of yours feels like they're not getting enough love and attention. Could be a lot of things. But the point is, when people become emotional, it's information, it's knowledge to pay attention to. So I'm not so quick to say emotions don't have a purpose in the workplace. If emotions open the door to meaningful, intentional, respectful conversations, they're incredibly valuable in the workplace. Like I said, it's all how you show up with the emotions. Now think about this for a second, right? We're talking, I've only given you one sign so far. I haven't even gotten to the rest of the list. Right? Think about all those questions I just rattled off. You're gonna start noticing people's a shift in engagement. You're gonna start prioritizing time with them. You're gonna have meaningful discussions where you're asking these questions. Well, guess what? Sounds great, right? You got a huge problem. Even if you do all three of those things, what if they don't feel comfortable speaking their truth? Then what are you gonna do? What if they tell you what you want to hear? Ever interviewed someone and felt like when you interview them, they're just telling you what you want to hear? So what do you do about that? Well, you'd have to create psychological safety to make the person comfortable to speak their truth. And there are many ways to do that, by the way. But the challenge is even as a leader and as an executive and as an HR person, you can do all those things and more that I said well. But if the person doesn't feel comfortable speaking their truth, then where what do you do? Because they still may tell you what you want to hear. And that's why I said it's the number one superpower. Because you can't solve problems, you can't motivate, engage, and inspire and coach and develop people unless you know how. And you won't know how unless you feel make them comfortable to tell you how. Because you're not going to guess. So the reality is getting someone comfortable to speak their truth has a lot of components to it. And one of the challenges that I think frustrates a lot of leaders, at least from the feedback I receive, is that they will tell me, Mark, I don't get it. I'm approachable. They tell me how much all the they tell me all the time how much they enjoy working for me. They tell me how much they like working for the company, but I don't think they speak their truth. I hear this all the time. And I'm like, no problem. I can help you with that. But before I do, I want our listeners to think about something for a second. What's going on there? And by the way, this is predicated on that the leader is self-aware enough and is in touch with reality. So when a leader looks at me and says, I am approachable, I am creating that culture, they tell me all the time, and you know, I'm modeling the behavior, that that assumes that the leader's presenting the information to me in the exact factual way it's actually happening, right? So I do have to kind of accept that premise here. But what's really going on? Why would someone not speak their truth if you are creating the culture, if you are doing all the right things as a parent, as a boss, as a coach, as a role model, why wouldn't they? Well, when we come back for our next segment, I'm gonna tell you. And I'm gonna tell you what to do about it. Because there's some simple techniques you can put into play where you can get people to open up. They're not foolproof, they're not guaranteed, but there's some strategies that will give you a much higher likelihood where you can get people to speak their truth. Communication is complex. Someone said to me the other day, you know, Mark, it feels like communication's like math. There's a lot of if-then statements. I'm like, yep, that about sums it up. If-then statements. So we come back, I'll give you the answer and solutions on how to deal with that. For I Communicate, I'm Mark Altman. We'll be right back.
SPEAKER_01Now, here's your host, Mark Altman.
SPEAKER_00Okay, welcome to I Communicate. And you know, uh, there's just no way in this show we're gonna get to all the signs of quiet quitters, so I guess we're just gonna have to do a part two, which is fine, because it's we could talk, we could do a lot of shows on this topic. It's it's such a hot topic in corporate America right now, uh, generationally and culturally. So, as I promised in our last segment, I would address the situation. So, just to recap, you know, we've got a leader who is claiming that they're doing all the right things. They get all the feedback that they're doing the right things, and yet people still don't feel comfortable speaking their truth, and they feel that people are just saying what they want to hear. Very, very common thing I hear. And I said to you as listeners, so what's this about? Like, if you had to guess, what's this about? Well, guess what it's about? It's about past life experiences, right? It's about who are the role models for this person? If this person comes from a family where speaking the truth was not celebrated, was not reinforced, giving your input in feedback was not encouraged. And how about this one? How about if not only was it not encouraged or reinforced or celebrated, how about there were times as a child when when you did speak up, you were shut down. You know, I always joke with parents and leaders. Is there any more disempowering response from a parent than when a child says, Hey, can we go to the playground later? And they say, No, we can't, and then the child says, Well, how come? And they say, Because I said so. Like, is there any more like I'm shutting the child down, disempowering because I'm in charge, I'm the parent because I said so, and you have to accept that? Like, it's just so awful, right? And so what we're talking about here is if you grew up in a culture in your family where when you did speak up, and I'm talking about way worse than because I said so, I'm talking about it you were criticized, you were invalidated, um, you were judged. You know, if those things happened in your family culture, the likelihood that you developed that skill as an adult without a lot of coaching and guidance and mentorship is slim. Not impossible, but slim. Now, let's say you did have a good family culture. Let's say everything was great, none of those things happened. But let's say at your previous job or jobs, you had bosses that criticized you, invalidated you, didn't encourage feedback, didn't even ask for it. Like they never even cared or asked.
unknownRight?
SPEAKER_00You weren't included in decisions. Like if you came from that culture at a past job or jobs, the likelihood that you're going to feel comfortable doing that even with a boss that is approachable and that has created that culture, slim. Slim. Not impossible, slim. So that's the big question. A lot of times when we're in authority or leadership positions, we internalize. We get frustrated with ourselves, we get frustrated with other people. Well, well, I'm doing everything right. Like, what more can I do? Well, you can recognize the situation. Okay? So for me, part of having a courageous conversation is if you have someone on your team that you don't, that you're getting the vibe, isn't comfortable telling you the truth or is telling you what you want to hear, why don't you ask them about it? Why don't you say, hey, would you mind if I ask in a very curious, empathetic tone, not a judgmental or frustrated tone. Curious, empathetic tone, you say, hey, would you mind if I ask? I'm getting the feeling you're not comfortable telling me how you really feel. Am I right? And if so, I would love to know why. Because when you say, Am I right, that's a closed-ended question. So the temptation for that person may still be like, no, no, no, no, that's not true at all. I tell you how it is. You know what I would say if I still felt like that person wasn't comfortable? I would say, okay, that's good to hear. Would you mind giving me an example where maybe you've given me some hard feedback or some hard truth? Again, in an empathetic and curious tone. And they may or may not still. But I mentioned earlier in the show today the elephant in the room technique. And if someone is acting a certain way and feeling a certain way, you don't have to be angry with them or judge them. You can have a conversation with them about it. And then if that person says, you know, yeah, I guess in hindsight, yeah, I probably don't feel all that comfortable, would you mind if I ask? See the permission thing again? Would you mind if I ask? How come? And they may or may not share with you how come? And that's their prerogative. And the reality is, if someone isn't sharing their truth, speaking their truth, we've got to figure out why. Because the whole thing about quiet quitting is people don't wake up one day and go, you know what? I hate this place. I'm quietly quitting. It doesn't happen on a dime. You know, I talk in sales a lot of when someone calls me up and says, Mark, we've got a problem with our leadership team. Mark, we've got a problem with our sales team, we get a problem, some of our executives aren't emotionally intelligent. One of my first questions I ask every single time is, well, what prompted the call now? Because I'm assuming you just didn't discover this issue yesterday. And so in a quiet quitting situation, this happens over time. And so if it happens over time based on a series of events, interactions with people, situations at the company, then you got to figure out how to deconstruct how they got to where they got to. That chronic disengagement or shift in level of engagement didn't happen on a dime. What started it all? So you can ask why it's happening, but I would be curious to know if the person is self-aware enough to know where it all started. You know, what was the series of events that triggered their mindset and where their attitude and mindset is at right now? We got to ask some deeper questions, not generic questions, not baseline probing questions. We get to ask root cause, real problem kind of questions to understand why the person is where they are and how they got there. And I think the whole premise with having these two-way conversations is, you know, you don't take things personally. It's very rarely, if ever, about you. If someone isn't speaking their truth to you, it may be about you, it may have nothing to do with you. And if it has nothing to do with you, maybe you can open up a dialogue to find out how to get them comfortable to share their truth. To share with them what will happen if they do speak their truth. How about this? How about let them observe how you interact with other people so you have some proof to offer? For example, if someone offers feedback in a meeting where that specific person is a part of, imagine if your response to that feedback, whether you thought it was good or bad feedback, and you said, I loved how comfortable you were sharing that feedback. I really cherished that you were comfortable doing that. What a great skill. Like that's a way to create a culture, let other people see. Well, I might not be comfortable doing it, but boy, when Jasmine and Ted ask questions, boy, his reaction's very comfortable. Or he really seems to cherish those characteristics and qualities in people, he or she for that matter. So there's a lot of different strategies, psychological safety. You don't press a button. And I talked, and the last concept I want to cover today is, you know, I said going into the break, these if-then statements in communication. People are always looking for like these foolproof methods. Okay, Mark, well, what would you do if this happens? And what would you do if that happens? As if I can give them some golden guaranteed response that will always work. It is always about if-then statements because every conversation, every communication has waves to it. So I would never teach people to be scripted. I would teach people to use critical communication concepts that make conversations impactful and successful. When you communicate with people, there are so many things before the conversation even starts, there's so many things you have to take into consideration. You have to take into consideration your experience with them, the generational challenges in this conversation, the potential cultural challenges in the conversation, their personality tendencies, situational awareness based on the urgency and importance level of the topic, your triggers and your past experience with them, and are you going into the conversation judgmental? So, I mean, when you prepare, I call this conversation intelligence. When you prepare for a conversation, there's a lot of factors you have to be prepared for. And then in the conversation, here's when the if-then statements come. And I can give you this one example, and this sums it up. If you bring a behavior or a habit, a negative or toxic behavior or habit in the workplace to someone and you're giving them feedback, there are three ways they could respond to that. They could be accountable and own your observation. They could deflect and say something along the lines, well, that may be true, but but you know, uh Jim gets to work from home and Mary gets favored by everybody else and they start deflecting. So you could either own it and be accountable, you could deflect or you could be in denial. Now, how could I give you a script for a conversation when the if-then statements, it's like the communication tree. Because if they're accountable and they own it, well, the next thing out of your mouth would be one thing. If they deflect, it's another thing. And if they're in denial, you have to go a totally different direction. So that's communication. It's situational. It's based on the person, it's based on the issue, it's based on the on the person. Person, the issue, level of problem. So this is why most of America and the world struggles with communication at some level. Because it's hard. It takes work, it takes preparation, it takes commitment, it takes practice, and it takes intentionality. So I hope you enjoyed our part one of psychological safety. We will continue this discussion. To create psychological safety, you have to blend elements of conversation intelligence, emotional intelligence, and mindset, the ability to manage yourself. Those are our secret ingredients, our secret sauce: mindset, emotional intelligence, and conversation intelligence. So if you want more information about how we can help your leadership team or individual teams within the company around psychological safety and improved communication, 978 793 1159 or email us at infovindsetgo.com. Have an emotionally intelligent day. Thanks, Jasmine.
