ICommunicate Radio Show #162: Nature vs Nurture

In this episode of ICommunicate, Mark Altman, Founder of MindsetGo, is joined by Marlyn Feliciano, and they discuss how to shape team culture to promote vulnerability and collaboration without oversharing or crossing personal boundaries and how to hold people accountable in a constructive way, as opposed to making them feel guilty and embarrassed for their mistake?Segment 1: We’re more than leaders, we’re role models -- we should expect them to take our behavior to heart and hold us to our world. With that in mind, how can we shape our team culture to promote vulnerability and collaboration without oversharing or crossing personal boundaries? How can we turn around our workplace culture when people feel uncomfortable in that environment? Segment 2:When we’re not getting a productive response out of a coworker, a member of our team, or somebody that we’re trying to network with, the problem becomes managing our emotions and adapting to their preferred method of communication. How can we hold people accountable in a constructive way, as opposed to making them feel guilty and embarrassed for their mistake? Segment 3: Holding people accountable can be like walking around glass, given how difficult it is to avoid coming off as stern or demeaning. What strategies around mindset can we employ that will make delivering and receiving feedback feel as though it’s coming from a place of empathy? How can we be assertive by leading with curiosity, as opposed to leading with emotions? Segment 4: An underrated, but essential, habit of an effective leader is to employ proper selfcare -- we can’t expect other people to trust us until we first trust ourselves. How can we make ourselves aware of the value we add towards our team and the work we do? How can we create reasonable expectations for ourselves that promote self growth and empowerment?

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Okay, welcome to iCommunicate. I am your host, Mark Holtman, and thrilled to be back here for another podcast. And today I have a special guest. My guest is Marlene Feliciano, who works at the Family Health Center. And Marlene, I gotta tell you, um, I am so happy you're here. We have worked together for quite some time now, and you're awesome. So thank you for joining us today.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Well, thank you for having me. This is this is quite an experience. I'm very excited to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Awesome. So, Marlene, I I want to start uh by sharing with the listeners why I asked you to come on the show. Okay, just to give context. And then I'm gonna introduce you to Marlene and give you a little background so you know more about Marlene. Marlene is an executive assistant at the Family Health Center of Worcester. And Marlene asked me to do some coaching with her quite some time ago. And if I had to point to, in the last year, three people that really have the total package when it comes to making coaching successful, Marlene would easily be in the top three. And I'm not just giving her a compliment to give her a compliment. I'd like to explain to the listeners what I'm basing that on, right? When you go into coaching, first of all, it starts with self-awareness. Like, are you aware of where you need help? Okay. The second thing is, are you open-minded enough to embrace the help? And the third thing is, are you willing to make the effort in between coaching sessions to put the things into practice? When it comes to managing your own behavior, when it comes to modeling behavior for others, Marlene has a team she leads. So Marlene gets a chance to manage up with her boss, she gets a chance to manage down with the team she leads, and she gets a chance to manage across with other departments in her organization. And Marlene has just showed the commitment throughout the process to really apply what she's learning. And, you know, Marlene, this is the last comment I'm going to make before we turn it over to you. What I love most about you is you always have a lot of questions. And, you know, intellectual curiosity, wanting to be better, wanting to learn, wanting to be the best mom, leader, you know, wife, support system, all those things you can be. There's a lot of roles.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

It's a lot of roles.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

So anyway, so Marlene, I would love to, without further ado, I would love for you just to share your backgrounds a little bit with our listeners so they can learn a little bit more about you.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Absolutely. Um once again, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Welcome.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Um I came to um the United States from Dominican Republic when I was nine.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Um I come from a very close-knit family, and um the motto is always do your best. So I think I've brought that in the back of my mind through everything that I do. Um I have been in healthcare now, but I have been in government, I have been in banking, I've had a lot of different roles, and they've all kind of brought together this whole package, really, um, where I'm able to be a value where I am.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

So, Marlene, I want to start with very interesting. A lot of things you said interest me, and I'm gonna start with family culture. And Marlene, you and I have talked about this. The way people default to certain reactions, the way they behave, so much of that is shaped by your family culture you grew up with.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

And you said that it was a value in your family, always do your best. I'm curious to know, because that expression, and I'm gonna share this in a minute, but that expression, I have different feelings about that. So when you were a kid, what did that even mean to you? How would you know? What was your benchmark say, oh, I'm definitely doing my best?

SPEAKER_01 3:46

When I was a kid, it was easy, right? Because it's all about grades. So do your best was you better be the best in school. My mom being a teacher, she knew all my teachers. So you really better be the best. Because she was going to get all the inside information from her coworkers. Um, and I was not able to get away with anything.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

So so here's my question. So when you were growing up, aside from school, did you do any extracurricular activities like theater, music, sports, anything like that?

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Music. Um, I was in um a special choir. Um I still to this day sing, but I'm no longer um connected to um like a formal um ensemble.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Okay, so how would you inquire, and I'm going somewhere with this. Inquire when you were a kid. What would you have, if you said I did my best, that would be based on what? How would you know you did your best at choir?

SPEAKER_01 4:49

That I took a lead role and I killed it.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Okay. And what habits and behaviors would you have done that you would have known it was your best?

SPEAKER_01 5:01

I would have practiced every day. I would have sought out help from our um director and our coach. Um I would have practiced with other individuals that were also um part of the choir. So I would have looked at every avenue that I could in order to say that I tried everything that I could think of.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Yeah. And so I think that's huge, Marlene, because what I heard you say is hey, I did my best to choir. If I sought support and feedback, if I collaborated with my peers to do better, if I practiced enough. Like those three things are a formula for doing your best at minimum, right? Correct. So now let's fast forward it to now, okay? So you lead a team. As an executive assistant at the Family Health Center, you lead a team. So my question for you is let's pretend someone on your team, you gave them an assignment. And I'm going to give you the scenario, Marlene, and say you're slightly disappointed with the outcome of the assignment, and you're talking to them about it, and the first thing they say to you is, Well, Marlene, I did my best. Like, what goes through your mind, like, knowing that's how you were raised, how do you hear that? And what questions would you ask to see if they actually did do their best?

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Um, I would start asking the questions that what did you try? What do you considered your best? Because the first thing is understanding, are we going from the same place? Are we meeting up with the same meaning of what your best is? Because again, my best is I'm gonna exhaust every option I can think of before I say I did my best. Um, so I first let's get agreement. What is your best? What did you try? Um and then we would go from there in the conversation of um, did you try this? Did you try this other option? Um, did you consider this? Um, just to get them to also realize there were other options that I've could have done that I may not have explored.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

It's fabulous. Yeah, because Marlene, what what I'm thinking about here is there's words in our language that or phrases that people use that I feel like are kind of, I don't want to say excuses, but they're they're ambiguous. And I'll give you an example. When I hear the word respectful, like I want you to treat me with respect, my definition of respect may be different than your definition of respect.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

And doing your best, someone could think it's their best and just say, Well, I tried, I did my best. And but what I really want to ask you about this is looking back at your parents, what did you notice? And I'm asking you to reflect back quite a ways here, but if you could remember, what is it you noticed that your parents modeled for you that indicated they were doing their best?

SPEAKER_01 7:51

I want to call out my mom when it comes to this. Um, she is very applied. And that means she won't give up until she gets the answer. And she is going to figure it out. She, whether it's the language, um, whether it's computers, whatever it may be, she's like, I don't know how to do this, help me figure this out. And she's never afraid to ask for that help until she gets where she wants to go. Um, and I think that's what she modeled the best. And and all of my siblings are like this as well. We are, we're going to look for that answer until we get what we expect to get.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

So if I said as a result of that experience growing up, there were two words I could use to describe Marlene Feliciano. One would be uh determined, and the second would be persevere. Does that sound like who you are?

SPEAKER_01 8:41

That sounds exactly.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Right, right. So that's great because those are such great qualities. And um, you know, if you when you go in the workplace as a leader, you know, one of the points Marlene, you've heard me make at times is people who lead by example, you know, the problem with leading by example is we assume that people notice all the examples we're setting, only the good ones. And also it assumes people notice any of the examples, period. So, you know, how do you feel like at the Family Health Center, you model the behavior of perseverance and determination?

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Um This is a great question.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

Thank you. Um I appreciate that. My confidence is going sky high right now.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Um well, what I think the clearest thing is I have had this great connection with my team. And we have built this over time. We meet every week, we explore about like this is what's happening, even if it doesn't necessarily connect to what they're doing, because the huddle isn't just about what they're doing, it's what I'm doing so that they understand, oh, this is the right way to do this if I come across it myself. So I it isn't just about what they see me doing and whether it's relevant in the moment. I share it as it's happening so they understand this is why I reacted this way, this is why I made this decision, this is why um I chose to speak to this person or that person. And I will explain the why I did it a certain way so that it when they come to me saying, Hey, I came across this other situation that was similar, and I did the same. Um, and I did this and this because of this reason, and it sounds very much like what I um mirrored for them, but it's in those conversations. It doesn't happen because they see everything, because everybody's busy. Everybody's busy with their own workload. Um, you have to constantly just be sharing. This is what I'm doing in this situation.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

Marlene, what I've noticed when you interact with your team is it's about the culture of your team. You've built a team culture, and I guess what I would love to know from you is is that something that was intentional that you said, hey, I want to build a specific kind of team culture and here's what it was? Or was it hap something that just happened organically because of who you are?

SPEAKER_01 11:02

A little bit of both. Um, but I want to say it was intentional because it the organization that we work for is not known for great culture. So I wanted to see, is it just the effect that I is it nature versus nurture? Was it the effect that I could have over my team, or was it um just the effect of what the whole organization is feeling because of everything that is happening? Um and I took it a little bit as an experiment. And I had the opportunity to work with you through the process. So as I took on this team, we had a lot of those conversations about like, okay, how do I do this? How do I present this information? How do I um and having those skills to be able to present the information in a way that wasn't negative?

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Okay, so when we come back, Marlene, from our first break, this is what we're gonna, this is what I want you to be thinking about going into the break. I wanna I want you to be thinking about the perception. You and I talk about emotional intelligence, self-awareness. What's the perception that people typically have of an executive assistant? What assumptions do they make, and what don't they understand about the complexities of that role? Okay, so we'll be back shortly for Marlene Feliciano and Mark Altman. This is I Communicate. We'll be back after the break. Okay, welcome back to i Communicate. I'm Mark Altman here with the amazing Marlene Feliciano. Marlene, I I promised going into the break we would ask about executive assistant perceptions. So what is it? What do people assume? What are their perceptions? And frankly, um what frustrates you about those perceptions?

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Well, you can't wait to answer this question, everybody. She's all ready.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Um Well, the first thing is I think people assume that you're still getting coffee for for your executive and that all you're doing is copies in meetings. Um and while I do not get coffee, sorry, Lou. Um I and yes, part of your job is arranging meetings and such. It's so much more than that. You have to have the discernment of what to call out the attention to your executive. You have to know how to work with people outside of the organization, inside of the organization. You are literally the face of your executive and the organization. Um, so there's so much that goes into the role. And it's so frustrating when people undermine everything that you do every day and they're like, I don't know what you do. Well, at least ask.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

You know what's funny, Marlene. When I look at, you know, when we hire interns at Mindset Go and I see uh resumes for like high school and college kids, one of my favorite things, I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be mean, like, because I understand experience at high school and college level, any experience is good experience, right? So let me just preface my comment. But when I see someone works as a cashier, and under cashier they write experience handling money. And I'm just like, oh, for the love of God. So, you know, I think I think it's great uh what you just shared, because I think when people look at certain roles, industries, job titles, they immediately assume certain things. So educate our listeners. So, what is it? What are a couple of things in your role as an executive assistant that people will be like, really? You do that? Like, wow, that sounds like a lot of work and difficult and so on and so forth.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

I I think the biggest thing is your liaison between the executive and let's say the employees, or the board of directors and your executive, and or external partners and and your executive. You are you always have to know a little bit of everything to be dangerous, right? I have to know a little bit about every department in order to understand um to be able to discern whether or not what what's coming up is an emergency, whether it can wait, um, whether the request makes sense. Um it's it's so much more about soft skills and being able to manage up, manage down, manage sideways, um, and influence. I think this is the key key thing. You have to have influence with the people around you because they don't report to you. So you have to get them to do what you want and without having any kind of say in their role.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

So, Merlin, I think that's so deep because you know, when I think of the word liaison, I was writing down some thoughts as you were talking. And when I think of liaison, I think of someone here's the things that liaison has to do well. And this is just uh small, right? Like there's way more than this, right? Number one, you have to be incredibly organized. Yeah. Right? Number two, you have to have great attention to detail. Number three, you have to be good kind of mediating conflict and disagreement.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

And it's the last one you said that's so powerful. It's you're managing sideways, you're managing across, so you have to influence people to take action. And I'm gonna tell you, Marlene, I work with CEOs and executives all over the country who are challenged to influence people to take action. So when you look at the role of an executive assistant, you take it to a deeper level liaison. I mean, we have people in this country that work in foreign affairs that are liaisons that are doing the same things you are, just with different people.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

And different pay.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

And different and different pay. Well, that's true. You had to get that in, that's true. So what I want to know, Marlene, is what is it from an influence perspective? What are some of the things you've learned through coaching that you've been able to apply um that you do differently to influence people?

SPEAKER_01 16:46

I think the first thing was the realization that I could influence people. Um I I I remember a training that um you did for my team about the sphere of influence and what we can control and what we can influence. Um and just being able to understand that you're not powerless in any situation and that um finding influence is really about knowing the other person and what they need, what they're looking for. Because if you can understand that, then you can talk to that, then you can use that in a way to influence. Um that was I think the key that opened it up for me.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

So you talked, Marlene, about understanding how to shift your approach, your communication style based on your audience and who you're dealing with, which is phenomenal. And when I think of influence, one of the things I think about is managing yourself. And here's an example, right? So if you're communicating with someone and they don't respond to your email and you've sent them three emails, this is where I've one of the areas I've seen you grow. The typical person who gets ghosted or ignored for three emails, their response, it's all about the other person. What's their deal? Not cool, they're being rude, they're being disrespectful. I've sent them three times, whatever. And when I talk about managing yourself listeners, what I'm talking about is when Marlene says sphere of influence, she's she's basically saying discern between your role in an interaction and their role in an interaction. Now, I am not saying that someone who ghosts you and doesn't respond to your emails deserves a pass. They need to be accountable for their behavior, there's no question. But what I think Marlene is saying, and Marlene, correct me if I'm wrong, is part of influencing, in addition to what you said, is if you are getting ghosted and haven't received three emails, you would say, geez, I wonder why they're not responding. And boy, I've sent three emails. Maybe I should try to communicate in a different way.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Absolutely. Right? I would need to change my approach.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

And ask what's going on. Um because I think that's one of the key things that um you have coached um me in is being curious. Just be curious. Um, not assume that the person is trying to um ghost me, that what I'm sending is not important to them, that um or any other assumptions about like they don't like me or whatever, but really to ask, be curious what's going on and how can I um make this easier for you. Um now in in my role where I said I I have to influence other people to get the work done, um, that is that's a key um skill. I need to be able to say, um, to go to someone and ask them um if we do it this way, um, can we move forward? Um, I need to present them with options. I need to be able to pick up the phone and and call them. Or I need to show up in their office if that's if that's the case. But it's the it's not just assuming this isn't gonna work, um, this person doesn't like me. It's what else can I do? How can I approach this in a different way?

SPEAKER_00 20:09

And Marlene, what you're talking about, uh listeners are listeners need if if you don't already understand, I'm asking you to think about something for a minute. It sounds so simple, right? Someone doesn't respond to your emails three times, you act you're curious, hey, what's going on? What's the problem? Let's face it, Marlene. When someone doesn't respond to your email three times, you have to manage your emotions.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Absolutely. You're frustrated.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Right. So you're mad. So not only, not only do you have to the right thing to do is what Marlene said, but you have to get yourself in check first, get rid of the hostility, get rid of the hurt and the disappointment. And then think about what we're saying, Marlene. We're saying in that moment, wonder if they're okay or if they need help or what's going on, and putting them first when they're the ones that hurt us. So we're feeling victimized, and then we're supposed to be empathetic to them. Isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Yeah, you gotta be curious and actually care. Like you have to actually care because it's gonna show up, right? Are you just asking me because you want me to respond to your email?

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Well, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Right. Or are you asking me because you really want to know?

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Yeah, that's a great point. So I want to ask you a little bit about leadership because there's such an enormous responsibility and when you had your first opportunity to lead people, um, you didn't necessarily know what you were getting into. Um what are you what are you finding uh for yourself over the last few years that have been um some of the hardest things for you in being a leader? What do you find?

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Calling people out um when they don't do work. So holding them accountable um and being assertive. Because I struggled um before training uh with um saying no. But I knew that once I had a team, it wasn't just gonna affect me. So it made me be get really serious about being assertive and being able to say, no, this is the boundaries, this is the limit. Um and um certain skills that you taught me, the yes and no and certainly came in handy.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Um but yes, it was about um knowing it wasn't just going to affect me. Uh I needed to get this under control because it was going to overwhelm my entire team.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

And when you reflect back and you think about those skills and those challenges, um, what was the root cause? Think about this for because we've talked about this. When someone struggles to be assertive or hold people accountable, speaking from your own experience, what was that about? What is that about? Why do you struggle with that?

SPEAKER_01 22:49

I I think it was mostly because I thought they were gonna think I wasn't a team player or um or I thought less of my I thought less of myself if I couldn't get it done. Um, like I was admitting some sort of weakness by not being able to get something done. So so therein lied my issue with saying no, um I cannot get this done at this at this point. And the reality is we're a limited resource. We have to know how much you can do before your quality suffers.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

So I I've so I want to share an observation I've had of you, and you tell me if it's accurate. I think part of the challenge with you and calling people out, and you're not alone on this by any stretch. I think part of the challenge is it's you're you're someone, the last thing you would want to do is make someone feel bad or feel less than. Absolutely. And and and so here's here's what I want our listeners to think about. The phrase calling people out sounds very aggressive. Like, oh, I gotta call them out. See, the thing about accountability, and I've been doing this more and more lately with companies, is teaching them how to how to lead with empathy and segue to accountability. You can do both. So in Marlene's case, her perception of holding people accountable was calling people out, making them feel bad, like that was your frame of reference, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Correct. So it was a mindset change for me.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Not no pun intended. Um it was a mindset change for me because I needed to understand okay, accountability is different from calling people out.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

And there are ways to do it in a way where it didn't make someone feel defensive, um, but we managed to get to the point of the goal.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Exactly. So when we come back from our next break, we're gonna talk about how Marlene mustered up the courage to start coaching, which is very difficult, and some of the expectations she had of herself, of me, of her improvement. And when we come back, we'll discuss that. So for Marlene Feliciano, I'm Mark Altman. We'll be back after the break. Okay, welcome back to iCommunicate. I'm Mark Altman here with Marlene Feliciano, the uh chief liaison for the Family Health Center of Worcester.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

Ooh, I like that.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Yep. Well, you got a you got a petition for that job description change, right? Okay. So the first thing I want to ask you, Marlene, is and I want to give our listeners some brief context before I ask Marlene the question about courage and coaching, is I want everybody to think of the word criticism for a second. Because what we've done in our world today is we've tried to soften what that word is. We started out with criticism, and then we're like, let's call it constructive criticism. And then we called it feedback. And then we called it constructive feedback. And now we're on developmental feedback. And guess what, everybody? It's still criticism. Okay? Now, understand I teach communication for a living, so the way you give feedback obviously matters, so I'm not dismissing that. But the point I'm making is what I notice with people is if you watched how I gave feedback to someone in training and coaching, you may look at me and go, Oh, Mark, you couldn't possibly give feedback better. And guess what doesn't change? When you hear someone say that you're not doing something the right way or you could do something better, there's still a part of us as humans that we feel like less than or not worthy in that moment. So even if you're self-aware enough to know you have communication challenges, leadership challenges, whatever, influence challenges, to actually admit it, raise your hand and say, I want to be better, I'm willing to understand where I need to grow. Like that's tough. Like that's really tough. So, Marlene, so what when you first heard coaching was an opportunity, was there hesitation? You know, were you like because you didn't know what to expect? So just talk talk to that a bit.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

I didn't know what to expect, but there wasn't hesitation, and I'll tell you why.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Um the organization was bringing in um your company in order to do um development and communications coaching for the um leadership team. And the executive assistant role, it's a funny role. You're not you're in everything that the leadership is, but you're not leadership. Um, you're in everything that um uh lower management is, but you're not quite. So it's it's a funny role. And um, when I saw the opportunity, I asked um my supervisor, um, am I part of the team that would be getting coaching? Because I'm interested.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

So you advocated for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

I did, I advocated for myself. I didn't know exactly what to expect. I just knew this is an opportunity and I'm not gonna pass it by. Um and also looking forward, I do consider that I'm going to be in leadership. So I may not be leadership right now, but I will be. So um, you have to start acting it now, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Yeah, the irony is that, and you and I have talked about this, and and a huge kudos to the Family Health Center and Lou Brady on this. Um, the amount of times a company will support coaching for an executive assistant role, to say the least, I could count that on one hand. I mean, it's very unique and unusual. So the fact that you were supported, the fact that you took advantage of it, the fact that you raised your hand to have it happen is huge. Now, now you, in fairness, you had seen me do a bunch of trainings before we started coaching. So you knew my style. You had sat in on you know the blue trainings and things like that. Um but once you started learning strategies, tools, techniques to be more effective, I want to start out by asking you, what were your expectations of yourself? Right? Because if when you left coaching sessions, I want to get inside your head here. Were you, if I could have gotten inside your head, were you saying, Oh, I gotta start putting these to into practice, I gotta remember to do this, how am I gonna remember to do this? Like, what what was it like when you were even now? Like, what's it like when you learn new things and the pressure and approach to that?

SPEAKER_01 29:18

The first is how do I work this in so that it becomes a habit? Um and until I figure that, I know that, figure that part out, I know I can't, I I I will practice it, but not consistently. So it's it's figuring out how do I have it stack, how do I make it so that it's in my face all the time and I actually get it done. Um and without that piece, it just becomes information. It doesn't become wisdom, right? Um, and it needs, it's not wisdom until you're using it to your advantage. And I'm always looking, okay, what did I gain from this information that I can put into practice and keep it into practice? Like keep it in my everyday arsenal.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Yeah, and so um, you know, Marlene's talking about language we use in coaching. So, first of all, you know, everything with habit change starts with self-awareness, top of mind, right? If you really want to put a tool or strategy or habit into practice, you have to be self-aware of when it happens and when the opportunity arises to do it. And um it starts there. Uh the convert knowledge to action, right? You know, Marlene, I've had this epiphany the other day, and I've started to share it with people where I'll be in a training, let's say it's 20 people, okay? And I'll I'll say something like, hey, this is a strategy you should use, or this is a recommendation, and I'll look across the training, and I know we're on the radio, so you can't see it, but they look across the training and people are shaking their head in approval. There's the key word there. They're shaking their head in approval. What that means is they're approving my recommendation. They're looking at me saying, Yeah, I agree. This is what's going through their mind, Marlene, when they're shaking their head yes. A, they're approving my recommendation. B, they remembered that it's important, right? And they haven't done it in a while or consistently, and they're shaking their head yes. Or C, they're shaking their head because they're saying, Oh, I do that. Those are the typical reactions when someone's shaking their head at me. And I look at people now and I say, listen, regardless of what reaction while you're shaking your head, understand that the question isn't, did you know it or have you done it? The question is, are you doing it at all or are you doing it consistently? And so when you talk about putting that wisdom or knowledge, it's put it into action. And that's what it's all about. And I think so that's the second thing. And the third thing is um people do put a lot of pressure on themselves because you know, when you sit in through an hour or one-hour coaching session, if it's a good coach, there's a lot to process, there's a lot to take in. So there's a tendency, and I want to know your thoughts on this, Marlene. You know, there's a tendency to get my summary email and go, holy smoke, where do I begin with all this? So have you had that experience of boy, there's a lot of things I want to work on and a lot of habits, where do I start?

SPEAKER_01 32:20

Yes. But one of the things I noticed that when I avoid, there's something keeping me from doing it. And it's subconscious. So now I have to like dig what's making me avoid this. For example, I know being assertive took a while. That that didn't, we didn't just have one session on it. We had multiple sessions. And did we do it this time? Was it a habit here? Oh, this is an opportunity, this was a missed opportunity. It was a process. And through all the entire process, some of it was just working in my mind saying, um, being assertive isn't being aggressive. Because in my mind, every assertive person I knew was aggressive while doing it. I didn't want to be aggressive. So it wasn't until I kind of uncovered, well, assertive isn't aggressive. There is a way to do assertive without being aggressive. Um and until I understood that, now I can sit in it and act in it. But before I found it difficult because it was punching up against something that I didn't want to do. I didn't want to be aggressive about it. Um, but I didn't recognize it, talking about self-awareness, right? I didn't know that's what was stopping me. Um, so those are the things that you discover in coaching. Um, not necessarily that it's a therapy session, right? But it it you have to ask yourself questions. Why do I find this so difficult to put it into action? Why do I nod my head and agree that it is something that I really should be doing, but don't do it.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Right. So Marlene referenced uh a minute ago habit stacking, and a lot of my habit training is based on James Clear and his atomic habits book and curriculum. And so I want to give everybody an example of habit stacking so you understand the term. Habit stacking is first of all, you don't change habits, you replace habits, technically. Okay. So let's pretend, and I'm gonna give a personal example and then I'm gonna tie it into Marlene. So a personal example is let's say you don't typically floss before bed. Okay, you just brush your teeth, but you don't you just floss. So right now, the last thing you do before you go to bed is you brush your teeth, you put your slipper, take your slippers off, and you go to bed. So the habit stack there is brush teeth, put on slippers or take off slippers. So a habit stack would be instead of brush teeth and take off slippers, it's brush teeth and floss. So you tie a replacement as slippers as the next thing you do with floss as the next thing you do. Now, in Marlene's example, we talked earlier in the show today about how holding people accountable or that aggressive phrase. So what what Marlene would need to do if she was habit stacking is if someone isn't doing something they're supposed to do, what Marlene would do is she would be fr I'm making this up, she would be frustrated and then say, I need to hold this person accountable. The new habit stack would be, I need to be frustrated and I need to be thoughtful about how I want to communicate this to them.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

You get what I'm saying? Like that's habit stacking to a T.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Yes. Um except that now it's be frustrated, and then it's like, oh no, remember, be curious.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

Perfect. That's beautiful. So I think, you know, when we talk about habit change, right, so much of habit change is self-awareness, but managing yourself. Again, Marlene's mentioned it a few times during the show today. Mindset, right? Uh a habit change can be simply the starting point, can be a shift in mindset. If you're if most of your life you've believed that holding people accountable feels harsh and aggressive and mean, the mindset shift is when you think of holding accountable, shift that as a replacement to no, holding accountable can be empathetic and supportive. And frankly, Marlene, and and I bet you can relate to this, I'd love to know your thoughts is. What I think a lot of leaders forget about related to accountability is so many times I've heard stories that when you point out something to someone when you're holding them accountable, they weren't even aware of it themselves. They are so entrenched in their habits and behaviors that if you say, hey, you may not have realized, but I've been observing that sometimes you're doing blank, I hear a lot of leaders come back and tell me from those conversations, they're like, oh my God, I didn't even realize I was doing that. Thank you for pointing it out. So there's that, right? Like uncovering blind spots and providing clarity for people.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

And the benefits of that is that once you do it with someone, they expect it. Then the next time it's easier. And the next time, even easier after that. And they know that you're not going to do it in a harsh manner. You just want them to be the best at what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Aaron Powell Well, that's a perfect segue to our final segment, Marlene. So when we come back for our final segue today, we're going to talk about the importance of setting expectations. And again, for yourself, for others, final takeaways from coaching. So for Marlene Feliciano, I am Mark Altman. We'll be back to iCommunicate. So welcome back to iCommunicate. And for our final segment, Marlene, I before we get to expectations, I do want to ask you a question. Um, your report, your boss is the CEO of the organization. We spent a lot of time today talking about managing down or managing across and so on and so forth. What have you found have been some of the tougher challenges in managing up? And how is how is what you've learned through coaching help you do better?

SPEAKER_01 37:53

Well, my CEO, um I know what his weak areas are. We love you, Lou. We love you. I know what his weak areas are. So now it's easy for me to say, okay, um I need to manage up, I need this done. Is this being an issue because of this? Um it's now easy for me to co go to him and say, Um, I understand this is an issue, how can I help? Or this is how I can help. Is that how you want me to move forward? Or unless otherwise directed, this is how I'm gonna move forward in this area or that area. Um when it comes to speaking to him when I'm having an issue, um coaching was key. I I I had a hard time going to um to my supervisor and just really expressing I'm having a hard time in this area. Again, because of some of the reasons that I already expressed. Um, he's gonna think I can't do it, you know, the job is too much for me, or or or I'm not doing my best, right? Because going back to how I grew up, like that that's not my best. I have to do my best. It's a double-edged sword. Um so I really needed to get um assertive about uh clear with with a thought in mind when I walked into the room, how the conversation was gonna go. What I was going to say, what I anticipated his response was going to be, what my um what my response was going to be after that, and so on and so forth. If this was the issue, I knew what to say. If this was the issue, I knew what to say. Um, so that when you're going into the conversation, you're not nervous. So you're a little bit more confident because you've prepared. Um you aren't to feel defensive because you haven't prepared with what you were possibly going to get. Um so I needed to work all of that out in my head first and then go into the conversation prepared.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Well, uh that's certainly true. And there's another big piece here that I've observed, and that is I feel like you've done such a better job of understanding his wants, his needs, his requests, tailoring your approach to those wants, needs. Because when I was talking about setting and managing expectations, I think part of the breakdown in leader, I hate this word, I hate this word, leader subordinate relationships, is there's a lack of clear expectations. There is an ambiguity in communication. And what I mean is I think when you were assertive, when you're acting assertive, you you sought clarity, right? Like you weren't willing any longer to say, well, I think he wants this or I feel like he wants this, you would seek that clarity and to set yourself and both of you up for success. Is that fair?

SPEAKER_01 40:48

That's that's fair to say, yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Now, Marlene, I I just want to say that um one of the ways I've seen, and I'm gonna use the word trust, I've seen the word trust is when I first came to the health center two and a half years ago, and there would be senior leadership meetings. I mean, you would be on there because you were the executive assistant, you were expected to kind of set up the meeting and take notes. Now, when I'm on meetings with you, you're one of the primary people giving feedback, and not only the primary people giving it, you're asked for it. Right? So you went from virtually saying nothing to so what I want to ask you about is that is a huge confidence thing, right? Because for you to sit with senior leadership, not only feel confident to give input, but to know your input is valuable and to know that it's asked for, talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

I know, I finally feel like I have a seat at the table.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

And not just an onlooker in those meetings. Um, but I think it all had to do with me believing that I had value, like I brought value to the conversation. I had good ideas. Um and it was getting clarity, um, since we were just talking about clarity um from my supervisor. What's the expectation when I when I'm at these meetings? Is it just to um be there, run the meetings, do the technical side of things, or is it that I participate? And once I got the clarity saying, no, no, if if you have something to say, say it. Um it was that, okay, you asked for it. Just remember you asked for it. Um and and now, yes, I there's I have a team, they trust my input, right? They trust that I'm going that I have said it, um, that I've thought through it, that I because I know a lot of the players, that I know how it's going to affect different um different departments. Um again, going back to that chief liaison role, right? Um I probably have a point of view that they don't have just because I work with people they don't work with.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

You know, Marlene has got promoted within the organization during the show. It used to be liaison, and now we've bumped it up to chief liaison. I love that. So, Marlene, this is the last thing I want to cover with you today is I want to talk about your expectations of yourself. And I want to ask you that in your as you as you've grown in your life, are you the kind of person that when you're learning something new, taking on a new set challenge, trying to improve, do you find, and I'm not talking about where you are today, I'm talking about over the course of your life. Are you do you tend to be hard on yourself? Do you tend to default to this wasn't good enough, I should have been better? Talk about how you typically see progress when it comes to expectations of yourself.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

I'm very hard on myself. Um, which is one of the things that we've worked in coaching.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Um, in extending grace to myself. Um, because uh as I spoke before, that trying your best, doing your best is a double-edged sword. Sometimes you hear 30. 37 positive things and one negative thing, and your mind automatically focuses on the one negative thing. Um, and it's a habit you have to break where I can work on making that one thing better, but it doesn't take away the 37 things that I did right. Um my expectation for myself, it's still going to be to do my best. Um, it's still going to be to continue growing. I don't, I'm a lifelong learner. Um, whether that's in a classroom, in a webinar, in coaching, in with a book, whatever it may be, I'm a lifelong learner. And it's not learning uh just by gathering information, it's like, how can this make my life better? How can I apply it to the people around me and make their life better?

SPEAKER_00 44:49

So the the show has come full circle. And a point we made at the beginning is I'm gonna tell our listeners one of the number one things, this is one of the top three things I teach people in coaching and training, is you have to have a success template. And if you remember at the beginning of the show, I said, Marlene, what's your benchmark for doing your best in choir? And she said three things. So now the antidote to not being hard on yourself is having something to measure. So now, if Marlene were to say, Well, I want to do a better job at being assertive, we can't measure that. It's too broad, it's too vague. And you know something? Most people, Marlene, you may be included, is if you make a general statement like that, then you're probably gonna be more likely to recognize the times you weren't assertive than when you are assertive. So what I teach people is, no, there has to be something measurable. So for Marlene, I would say, hey, if you want to be better at mar at being more assertive, then you need to keep track of the opportunities you had to be assertive and recognize the opportunities, and how often did you execute on those opportunities? And if Marlene said, hey, Mark, you know, I want to every I'm making this up to make a point. If she said, hey, I want to every five opportunities, I want to make sure I'm assertive in two of them, that would be tremendous. Because if she's currently assertive typically in zero of the five, then two would be an improvement. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 46:12

That makes sense. And I I took that um for those of you um listening, there's a whole worksheet that Mark had me use in order to get into the Situational Awareness Journal. Yes. Um in order to get into the habit of recognizing those moments. But I think the eye-opener was when I was using that in my um personal life too. I was I took all of that knowledge outside of just the office and applied it to my personal life and say, what are opportunities that I'm missing on being assertive in my personal life with my husband, with my children, with my um parents, with with every relationship I have at church. Um so I I had to utilize these skills in in every relationship, and then it became like, oh, this really does work. Because you're using it 24-7 and not just within the eight hours of being in the office.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

Yeah, and Marlene, you know, one of the things we talked about in coaching is when we talk about expectations of yourself, is one of the points I made to you is that my experience with you is you have a tendency with others, your kids, people that report to you, where you would give them more latitude than you would give yourself.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

True.

SPEAKER_00 47:26

And so part of the realization for people is if you're critical to yourself, but you're not critical to others, what kind of behavior are you modeling? Because if you sit in front of your team and you're someone that's hard on yourself and you're beating yourself up, like, oh God, I'm sorry, I should have known that, or I should have done better, or you start shooting on yourself, or whatever. The idea here is you're modeling behavior. So, what's the behavior you want to model? You want to model if you're a parent, do you want your kids to see you beating yourselves up? Because if you do, then they're probably gonna beat themselves up. So I think that was a great awareness for you when we talked about recognizing how you treat others. And if you're willing to treat others that way, why won't you extend yourself that same latitude, right?

SPEAKER_01 48:12

And the realization that you're not being authentic if you are being nice to other people and allowing them a lot of latitude, but not to yourself.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

That's true. That's a great way to say that. So, Marlene, final thoughts for today is this. Um, when you look back at, and I'm not even just talking j uh coaching, I'm talking about just your overall journey of professional growth. Our listeners, what is some advice you would give to people, whether it's coaching, whether it's other actions to take, what are the things that if you were coaching other listeners to the show and say, listen, if you really value professional growth, here's some of the habits I recommend you look into or start.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

The first is never have a fixed mindset, right? You don't say the words, I know. Because once you say the words, I know, you stop learning, right? You think you know. Um the second would be um if you have the opportunity to work with a coach, do it. There is no downside, right? Um, if it if you don't jive, look for another one. But there is no downside. You need somebody who is objective, who is going to tell you this is right or this is wrong, and someone who you're not attached to emotionally, because if it's a friend, if it's your spouse, you're gonna take it a whole different way than if it's someone who's like, listen, you're paying me to tell you the truth.

SPEAKER_02 49:37

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

So, and be honest. Um, be honest about where you need work.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

All right. Well, Marlene, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show today. Thank you, Marlene Feliciano, uh chief liaison at the Family Health Center of Worcester. For Mark Altman, if you want more information about MindsetGo, 978 793 1159 or info at mindsetgo.com. Have a wonderful day.