Final Pixel: How this virtual production studio lives up to its name

In this episode, we talk with Final Pixel CEO Michael McKenna and Global Head of Production Hanah Draper about the future of virtual production.

We cover:
‣ Final Pixel's Virtual Production Academy
‣ Creating the Oracle Red Bull RB19 launch video
‣ Where AI fits into filmmaking in the future
‣ How virtual production reduces production time, costs, and plays into risk mitigation

And a whole lot more

📧 Be sure to subscribe to the free VP Land newsletter to get the latest news and BTS insights 2-3x a week

Connect with Michael and Hannah @ Final Pixel:

• Final Pixel 
• YouTube 
• Twitter 
• Instagram 
• Facebook 
• Michael Mckenna  
• Hanah Draper 

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📝 SHOW NOTES

Final Pixel Academy
https://finalpixelacademy.com

Cuebric
https://cuebric.com
https://www.youtube.com/@seyhanlee9735

Red Bull Racing RB19
https://www.redbullracing.com/int-en/cars/rb19

Sphere Fever, Peachy Bottas, and The Weekend So Far! | 2023 Las Vegas Grand Prix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAjHbOCUl84&t=28s

The Virtual Production of The Mandalorian Season 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUnxzVOs3rk


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Final Pixel is pioneering innovation in virtual filmmaking—from concept to final pixel. We chatted with CEO Michael McKenna and Head of Production Hanah Draper about pushing creative boundaries.

🏎️ They helped Red Bull pull off its RB19 reveal with just 6 weeks of lead time. Using photoreal CG environments and drone footage, they built a fictional story of the racecar getting lost on its way to the New York launch event.

🛡️ Risk mitigation is key. Buttoned-up planning prevents common virtual production pitfalls and helps build client trust. Warner Bros relies on Final Pixel's tight production management.

⏱️ Virtual production compresses timelines. By reconceptualizing campaigns around dynamic CG scenes, clients can create content 50% faster than traditional methods. This also reduces costs by up to 20%.

🤖 AI will become another filmmaking tool, slotted into existing pipelines once iterative workflows improve. The tech is not the focus—it's the experiences it enables.

👏 The live action aspect uniquely expands creative possibilities, unlike purely animated CG or visual effects. It also breeds spontaneity on set as scenes can be reviewed and shifted in real-time.

The future of the craft will leverage tech while preserving the human artistry of cinematography and set design that makes viewers feel emotion. Virtual production will transform filmmaking, not replace it.

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⏱ CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction and Overview
01:32 The Challenges of Virtual Production
04:39 What is Final Pixel
04:39 Final Pixel's Global Reach
07:56 The Origin of Final Pixel
10:54 Final Pixel's Educational Programs
19:35 The Role of AI in Filmmaking
24:56 The Red Bull RB19 Reveal Project
27:42 Drone Footage and Car Plates
28:25 The Carbon Footprint of the Production
29:13 The Shoot and Challenges
32:45 The Impact of Virtual Production
33:39 The Speed of Content Creation
33:59 The Potential of Unreal Engine Environment
34:36 The Future of Filmmaking
48:45 Immersive Experiences & Las Vegas Sphere
51:18 Closing Remarks

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New Territory Media ► https://ntm.link/home

Transcript

Hanah Draper: 0:00

Oracle Red Bull Racing said,"Hey, we need to shoot a launch for our RB19." and they needed it to be delivered in six weeks. And virtual production solved that.

Michael McKenna: 0:11

If you could change the speed of content creation, how might that change your campaigns? How might that change how you approach filmmaking as a whole?

Joey Daoud: 0:19

Welcome to VP Land where we explore the latest in filmmaking tech, from virtual production to generative AI and everything in between. I'm Joey Daoud, your host. And you just heard from Hanah Draper, Global Head of Production at Final Pixel, and Michael McKenna, CEO of Final Pixel. Final Pixel is a virtual production house specializing in film, TV and advertising. But they do more than just creating content. They have a growing training academy and dedicated virtual art department, which we'll explore more. In this episode, we'll learn how they pulled off filming the Red Bull racing spot that Hanah was just talking about without access to the car or drivers. We'll dive into how virtual production helps with reducing production costs and risk mitigation...

Hanah Draper: 0:56

We kind of halved the amount of time it would take to do a traditional production,

Joey Daoud: 1:00

where they think AI fits into filmmaking in the future...

Michael McKenna: 1:03

I don't really think about AI as a thing. I see it more as a way of doing things that will be slotted into the pipeline somewhere.

Joey Daoud: 1:09

how rapidly changing technology is enabling more creative freedom...

Hanah Draper: 1:12

The more you're not worrying about the technology, the more freedom that you have to be creative

Michael McKenna: 1:16

It's live action filmmaking. It's live production. It's the live bit is what makes it what it is.

Joey Daoud: 1:22

And a whole bunch more. Get ready for lots of virtual production insights and stories from Michael and Hanah right here on VP Land. So when you were getting into virtual production, I mean for both of you, like what were, what were some of the roadblocks or what were some of the things that you kind of hit or just in shifting the way that you think about like making videos and, uh, producing? Like what, what were some of the shifts that had to happen?

Michael McKenna: 1:45

I mean, I mean, one of the biggest one was, was the virtual art department, you know, building the virtual arts. So, you know, we had to start from a point where no one was doing this. Um, you know, so it was like, say it was like July 2020. Um, there was, there was other outside of the Mandalorian and maybe, you know, um, some other really large productions, nobody was doing this at scale. So we had to learn how to take Unreal Engine projects and get them optimized to the wall. And that was probably the biggest first challenge. You know, we wasted like a lot of money on that. Say, you know, and we learn- and, you know, being honest, that was one of the big drivers for the education side as well because we just didn't want other people to like waste so much time and effort on it as we did in a way, you know, like we learned the hard way. Um, and so, you know, I still think we're one of the few companies that have an optimization video on our YouTube, like just available for people to watch, you know. And I think that that kind of dark art, if you like, have been able to take, um, to try and balance photorealism with the optimization for the wall is, um, was one of the biggest challenges and it still remains like a big challenge. Um, but, you know, we've been working on processes and ways to manage that. So yeah, definitely the, the sort of, um, you know, creation of the art, having it running on the wall, that was a, that was a big shift. Then the, the second one of, or like in parallel is the, the change in, um, the change in mindset and approach from all the different stakeholders that's needed. So, you know, if you have to, you know, have a very different, um, kind of pre-production process with your director of production, uh, with your, um, director of photography with the producer. You know, the heads of production with the production designer, with the director. Like it, it is a real shift in mindset for how you approach film making, particularly for people that have done a lot of VFX work. Um, and so I think, you know, those two things, you know, um, were probably two of the biggest challenges. And then, you know, what we've really had to do is, is manage that process and, you know, again, that's where Hanah comes in. Like she's been amazing that being able to help us create this, um, you know, tight workflow from end to end that helps manage that whole thing. Because when you get the, when you get that pre-production workflow right, you know, that's when you start to get the real best out of what happens on stage.

Hanah Draper: 3:56

To add to that, it's a lot about the, um, kind of nurturing the mindset of when you've got a director or a DOP that's never worked with virtual production before and is still in that kind of mindset of will it look photoreal? You know, you have to, you have to work out how to get them to gain the confidence, first of all, in the technology, but also not be scared of it because it is new territory. And we like to take away the need to think about the technology so that, you know, the director or the DOP can think about being creative and getting the best visuals out of, out of it. Um, So it is, it's, it's just a way of managing and nurturing the confidence within, um, the heads of department

Joey Daoud: 4:39

Just do a quick overview of what Final Pixel is and sort of the three areas that you're focusing in.

Michael McKenna: 4:45

you know, you think about our company, we are a specialist in virtual production. What we describe ourselves are as a innovation in film works um, because actually we're, we're covering a lot more than a, a virtual production physical studio. You know, we are are running production from the start, you know, from concept to Final Pixel for clients across advertising, film, and tv. Um, this takes us into, you know, markets in the US, the UK, Europe, you know, Australia, Brazil. We've, we've done, um, work internationally a number of times now. And, and so yeah, we're not just one physical individual place. We have this global network. We have global reach. We have teams that can, um, be deployed and that can work on projects all over the world. So we have this production arm, if you like, you know, this kind of core, um, production side, which, you know, helps to manage that overall process, but then also runs the onset virtual production. Um, and then has a nice dovetail into our. Um, virtual art team. So we have our own, um, virtual art department that's like the second pillar, uh, if you like, of the business, which, um, you know, runs Unreal Engine, highly optimized environments on the LED wall. Uh, we are building the next generation of content, you know, using this technology like, uh, we're really trying to push the photorealism, really trying to push the optimization, really trying to push the creation time as well so that we can, um, deliver for our clients. And then the third area, again, like this, just again expands beyond simple, just individual studios. You know, we, we are a trainer. We have a academy. The academy operates again internationally. Um, we've got a couple of initiatives that I can talk about in a bit. Um, but you know, we have this, um, global reach with the academy, again, through our online portal and also through our partners. And what this allows us to do is take, um, the knowledge, like the live knowledge that we are gaining on complex cutting edge virtual production shoots. And then translate that directly into skills-based learning for people to go and, and pick up. It's, it's, I I actually think there can't be many, if any, companies out there that are doing it at the same speed and at the same kind of, um, level as we are because we're taking this, you know, from one week the, uh, virtual production supervisor might be using the latest version of Unreal 5.3 and doing the latest things in it. And then the next week he's going to be teaching all the heads of department across different high end TV and film programs how to actually employ this technology. So yeah, like I think that that's always been a resource, like sharing what we're learning about this technology and the ways to do it, because we don't ever really believe that it's just one, one single thing. You know, this is a way of filmmaking. It's not just one studio. It's like a whole approach. It's the way you approach things. And that's something that, you know, if we're ever going to achieve the potential of virtual production is something that we have to get out there and share and get the craft and the storytellers coming back. So, yeah, I think that there's, there's those three areas, if you like, of the business. And ultimately, what that allows us to do is take our clients' requirements and take the, you know, the creative requirements from a client and employ production technology in a way that allows them to do things that they couldn't have done otherwise.

Joey Daoud: 7:56

What was the backstory and sort of the origin of getting into virtual production and, and Final Pixel?

Michael McKenna: 8:01

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting, like I'd, I'd spent a long time working in TV previously. And, um, my, uh, co-founders, you know, uh, Chris and Monica, had been running, uh, um, creative agency in the U.S. Now they've been working more in advertising. And, um, Chris is a director, too. And, uh, literally, this was- almost become a bit of a cliche now. Like we, we were watching the behind the scenes of the Mandalorian over April 2020 lockdown. And um, it actually came about from a family Zoom. Like, I don't know if you remember when everyone used to do this, like weekly Zoom with family. So it was one of those Zooms that- and then, you know, the other thing everyone done was talk about, uh, what have you been watching this week? You know, what's everyone been doing? And so we were all talking about the Mandalorian. And Chris was saying, yeah, I was watching the behind the scenes and you know, we thought that if we had this LED wall technology, we could have kept shooting through covid. You know, we had a client that had a, a shoot canceled, and the factually we'd had this, maybe we could have done that shoot. And I was watching it and I, you know, I'd had these like parallel thoughts as well, which was, this is incredible. This is going to change everything. Like, I love this. It's, for me, it's a combination of all the things that I love about filmmaking, technology game, and et cetera. And, um, at that point, I was- I'd already decided I'm just going to leave my current role and go in just devote time to this kind of form of production. So it was a bit like serendipitous in a way and decided that, yeah, why don't we do something together? And then that's where it came from for us. Um, and, you know, my background before that, you know, came from camera, worked in camera, had also done a lot with, uh, technology. So I always been working, um, you know, in, in various different guises of technology. And then also, um, on the production and, you know, the, the, the film, the TV production side, you know, had good experience working in that area. So this for me, it was like a real coming together of all the passions that I've got alongside this like, amazingly exciting future for, um, film, TV production. And, um, and yeah, we went off and started some demos and then before we knew it, you know, we were really busy and we, we had like a, a wild ride since . So yeah, it's great. Um, and Hanah actually joined us on the, one of the first big productions we, uh, we'd done in the uk. And that's how we first met.

Joey Daoud: 10:14

Yeah. So what was your background, uh, Hanah?

Hanah Draper: 10:17

I'm more advertising. So I've come from like production company, producing. Um, that's my background. Done lots of commercials, music videos, a lot more short form stuff. Um, but I remember, our first shoot that we did, um, was a lot of fun because you are, you've got a load of crew, especially in commercials, where they, they kind of come up, they show up, they do their job, they go home. Whereas with virtual production, you are- they're coming and they're like, wow, this is really fun and exciting and interesting. And everybody's got just a little bit more energy to, to play and be super great at their jobs. Um, so yeah, I'm a big fan, big fan.

Joey Daoud: 10:54

Academic programs and stuff that you have. you want to go more into what you've been, uh, offering?

Michael McKenna: 10:59

Yeah, I mean, we are, we are really pushing hard on this and, you know, at a level and scale, which is, um, you know, I think quite unique in the industry at the moment. So, um, we've just launched a new program in Scotland, um, which is in conjunction with Screen Scotland, to run a virtual production fellowship. And the idea here is that, you know, a very forward-thinking, um, funding body in Scotland and you know, the combined forward-thinking partners, ourselves, Nightsky, Blazing Griffin, have managed to come up with a program which is much more qualitative. The aim at a smaller group of people rather than all of these kind of, uh, what we're seeing a lot of is these kind of, um, one day sessions where it's a kind of come and see the stage, hear a bit about virtual production, then go away. It's quite a lot of that at the moment, and what we're really trying to do is shift a dial and actually invest in time and effort and, um, you know, be more strategic about trying to build up the teams that are able to do this sort of thing in different countries. Um, so working with the screening organization allows us to do that at a country level and at a level which is, you know, designed to sort of, about that capability there. So this is a three-year program. We will take 16 people through a very, you know, we will carry them through this kind of end-to-end process. So, um, the, within that, um, 16 people, there'll be four different specialisms. So there'll be people with a producer specialism, people with the more kind of a virtual art production design specialism. Uh, people on the onset virtual production sort of specialism, and then the, the creative kind of director or DOP side. Um, you know, so I think that this is going to be very different and yeah, hopefully, you know, through the, the mentors that we're bringing in and through the kind of approach to the teaching, it would just prove that, you know, we have a model for building really strong virtual production teams. Um, and, and the sort of things that can, and you know, where this comes from is it's to help our clients, ultimately de-risk the work that they want to do with virtual production. You know, like in order to deliver this well long as to deliver high production value vp, you need to have good, talented experience teams. Um, and still at the moment, as it's very new, that's still a challenge in the industry and that's still something that is, is evolving. Um, but I really hope that what, by what we are doing, we're going to help cement more and more teams, more and more freelancers, more and more groups out there that can, that can turn themselves to us. Um, so that's one of the things that we're doing., which is fairly, fairly major program. And then there's also, uh, just, you know, in a couple of weeks we've got some taster sessions, which are aimed at more kind of come along to the stage. But these are particular tailored towards the head of department. Again, so, um, production design directors, DOPs have them come into the stage, but actually like really experience what it's like to operate as well. Not just come and, um, have a go at, uh, you know, looking at the wall and wa a camera kind of actually just try and put them in the mindset of, okay, how would. How would we approach this as filmmakers? Like how would we actually come to this? Because access to the technology tends to be one of the biggest barriers for storytellers at the moment is that, you know, they need to get hands-on on set. And we really want to make that hands-on experience as good as it can be and as high end TV and film as possible. So in doing that, we've taken the, it is probably the largest volume in the UK, the one at the ARRI stage. Um, so we're going to be in there in ARRI, um, delivering this training over the course of two days for 60, you know, um, professionals. And I think it's, it's this kind of thing again, like this is what we're trying to do is put the, put the control in the technology, in the hands of the filmmakers, in the hands of creatives to, to actually see where this technology will take us. You know, like they, the, the, the experienced people who work in film TV are the ones that are going to show us where this can go in terms of potential, you know? And we want to bring those who are willing to go on that ride along.

Joey Daoud: 14:54

Yeah, that's exciting. And so, I mean, it seems like with, there's like a multifaceted approach where it's like that some of it is like geared towards professionals that are already in the industry, but maybe want to learn more about virtual production. And the three-year program. I'm assuming that's like people that just to start from ground zero.

Michael McKenna: 15:09

Yeah, exactly. To a degree. I mean, the three-year program's actually sort of mid-level, people who have done a bit of film TV already, like want to move on. Um, we do have other programs aimed at- yeah, absolutely everything from, you know, complete beginners to, um, people who are still at school. So we run, we've run programs with, um, uh, like summer schools for 11 to 18 year olds introducing Unreal Engine. You know, we'd done this whole thing last year where they got to build their own first meta human. And then this year, we done another summer school that was using Fortnite creator, sort of like going in in and starting to build things in Fortnite and like understanding the concept of world building and the concept of using Unreal Engine. And this sort of, uh, the, the, this, just the pure like ease of creation that comes from it, um, to try and, you know, like just show people like, this is amazing. This is the kind of, this is where we're going with this kind of technology. Real-time technology is going to be a bigger part of everyone's life. And, you know, having, you know, these, you know, living to 18 year olds kind of get hands on with it was just amazing because they, they, they picked this stuff up very quickly. Um. You know, they're, they're really native when it comes to anything like this. And, um, it's really exciting actually, you know, to see, um, you know, and also to show them, look, there's a number of different avenues out there. Like, not, not everyone, . , you know, maybe once they go to university and study a thing. Actually there's other paths out there, particularly in film tv, you know, there's apprenticeships, there's different, you know, ways to bridge that gap between further education and to, uh, the film and TV industries So we're really operating at all levels. And, um, Jody, who's our head of F Effects Academy, um, she has been amazing at just nurturing, you know, those groups, bringing them through, working with the partners across universities, across colleges, and other further education to take training into universities to sort of carry that training beyond, um, you know, just onset in the studio, uh, with a small group of people. We've also just launched the first, um, in depth color course. I think it must be one of the first, if not the only, um, in virtual production. Um, and we're working with Daniel Mulligan on that, who's a really experienced color scientist and is able to take us through and is taking a group through at the moment. Um, all the sort of considerations, if you like, in the color pipeline, teaching them more and more detail about color and all the kind of complex stuff that comes with that. And I think, again, this has been one of the areas in virtual production that has been. Sort of the most challenging, but also the most exciting to work with, I think, you know, in color. So yeah, like I say, we're, we're, we're coming at it from all different angles and the, the vision, the purpose there is to build skills-based training, so, you know, training, which is clearly based around teaching people skills in order to make them more employable and actually ultimately be able to come on set and do the types of jobs that we really need them to do.

Joey Daoud: 17:50

Yeah, I mean, it's funny, I never thought of that, but I guess it's not such a big leap when you're talking about younger, younger people uh, like Minecraft, Roblox, Fortnite. They've sort of just been growing up with like world building and it's not such a big leap to go to Unreal.

Michael McKenna: 18:04

Yeah, it is great. And you know, the, the, we created 500 meta humans that time. And they were all just so vastly different as well. It was amazing, like, you know, the kind of creativity they went into. Some of them were just absolutely wild. Some of them, like very photo, like try to get 'em really real and personable. Like it was absolutely amazing. Like, um, you know, I do feel like there's a- there's a real wave coming with the, the sort of next generation in this area that are so, um, you know, gaming and native to this kind of stuff is, is, is, is makes the kind of barrier between, you know, what we might think of as, you know, between immersive experiences, between games, between film and tv, like that next generation is, is is the energy behind changing that and technology as well at the same time? You know, you can see that the. The sort of bridge between immersive entertainment and, you know, you know, what we would initially, you know, originally call, film or whatever has really been broken down, like, you know, um, rapidly in the moment.

Joey - Shure Mic: 19:02

Now would be a good time to mention the VP Land newsletter, which has a dedicated section for all virtual production related events, including the educational events put on by Final Pixel. So if you want to know what events are coming up near you or you have an event to promote, be sure to subscribe. Also email us if you have an event to promote. You'll also stay up to date on the latest news and behind the scenes insights into virtual production and the latest filmmaking technology. It's a totally free newsletter that comes to you two to three times a week. The easiest way to get it is to go to ntm.link/vpland. The link is also in the show notes. All right, now back to the episode.

Joey Daoud: 19:35

Not to be a cliche, but I mean obviously it's on everyone's radar, AI stuff, uh, but also beyond AI, NeRFs, 3D Gaussian Splats, uh, how much of this is on your radar? How much are you thinking about this, especially in speed of creation for environments and or other uses and stuff?

Michael McKenna: 19:51

Yeah, definitely. I mean, speed of creation environments is, is interesting. You know, concepting with this sort of stuff is interesting. Um, Gaussian splats are amazing, you know. Like we were watching NeRFs and then like now looking at Gaussian splats and how to employ this in a pipeline. But you know, like I am I'm always thinking about how we use this to create the right sort of, um, you know, highest value production for our clients ultimately. You know, and like I'm always trying to translate it into, okay, well what element of the pipeline does this definitely help for the type of clients or the type of work that we do? Um, and one of the challenges in that at the moment, which I'm sure will change is the, the, the iteration. So, you know, we, like I talked about earlier, the virtual art process, you know, to go back to that challenge. Um, one of the big challenges there is, is how you iterate from, you know, one design to another and how you take notes and how you say, oh, okay, can we just move that there? Can we, can we just, you know, put that up a bit and move that there and change the color here? And actually, you know, like those notes are what really goes into embed and the value of virtual production because, you know, you're like, you're giving the client and you're giving the producer the vis, you know, before they're even on set. And they're getting all that in in advance. And, you know, I think having that, um, that tool, you know, to be so fine tuned with Unreal. Um, is, is amazing and to sort some of them. So far, most of the AI type, uh, 3D gen stuff I've seen so far is a bit limited on that front, and, and it's harder to do that iteration. So in the end you maybe like save time on doing something really quick, but then you might lose time if you were to sort of follow that same process. So I'm, I'm just really interested in how it fits as a workflow too, and I kind of don't, I don't really think about AI as a thing. Um, I, I, I sort of, I see it more as like a it's a way of doing things that will be slotted into the pipeline somewhere. And before long, we probably won't really be talking about AI. We'll just be talking about the platforms that people are using that are amazing. You know, you know, like it would be less about, this is AI, you know, AI-driven, AI buzzword. It's, it's probably more about, look at this, look at what this does for us. Isn't this amazing? And, and it'll be based on platforms and names of companies and, and names of software programs.

Joey Daoud: 22:01

Yeah. And I wonder, too, like, um, mean just from like a budget perspective, it's like if you have the budget in a shoot to do a whole Unreal world build or set build and control it. But um, you know, does it, also just go down where like making virtual production more accessible and it's like, okay, we just need to shoot something and we need like a kitchen scene, but we're not particular if of what kitchen looks like, does that make it more budget friendly for like other shoots?

Michael McKenna: 22:28

Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, it is all about democratizing the technology. Um, I feel, you know, the, the speed of the content creation, um, coming down helps make that a little bit more accessible. You know, does it, does it make it a little bit more accessible to someone to be able to create a background quickly and Yeah. We've been doing a lot of R&D on this all year, like since the started of this year. And we posted in January that we'd been doing beta testing with Cuebric AI and like, you know, so we've been looking at that. But, but it's like anything, you know, like once you, it requires a different workflow, so then yeah, you get benefits somewhere, but then where's the downside? And then does that offset some of the savings, like somewhere? So I think that it's still to be like completely proven for all cases and like, um, again, you know, as, as we are really trying to push the, um, the customizable environment creation for specific narratives, for specific storytelling, um, you know, we're still focusing a lot of energy on that and obviously looking at how AI tools as they come through will help us. Um, I do feel like there's a, there's definitely a, a, a speed, um, element of, of working with ai, which is really interesting. Um, but I'm, I'm sort of, I think the craft ultimately that comes from people you know, is, is never going to be replaced. You know, like it's, it's never going to be replaced. Like, perfect example is like, yeah, well, you know, Mandalorian costs $15 million an episode, right? And so other shows cost a million dollar episode. Why is that? And do we really think that that's sort of just going to change? Like is a sort of, there is a craft, a filmmaking that requires so many, you know, things coming together to kind of really make it engage and make people cry and make people laugh. And you know, like that craft that has been developed over years in cinematography, elements of it could be taught. Sure. But like, I think that, um, ultimately we're always going to need that human, um, hand and mindset and sort of awareness to, to shift and change things. So when I look for artists and the work with our VAD team on trying to find artists, the first thing I always look for is, do they have an eye as an artist, first of all, regardless of their abilities, they may be the best, Unreal programmer in the world, but if they don't have the eye for art and they don't have that kind of, um, ability to compose a scene, then you know, they're, they're not, they're going to find it hard working in filmmaking.

Joey - Shure Mic: 24:51

Uh, so let's talk about one of the, let's say, break down one of the projects that you did. the Red Bull RB19 reveal.

Joey Daoud: 24:58

So yeah, can you just walk me through, let's just start at high level, just like overview, like how that project came about and how, what the production process was like?

Hanah Draper: 25:06

Um, so the, we had had a, uh, relationship with Oracle Red Bull racing and discussing virtual production with them for some time, but they came to us on, I think it was like December 22nd, and said, uh, Hey, we, we need to shoot a, a launch for our RB19 We can't pivot to a traditional workflow because we don't have any time. We don't have the drivers, we don't have the RB19 Um, so we ended up, using the RB19 as a plastic pig. So anyway, they, they, they came to us with this idea. We said, okay, let us go away, come up with some concepts. We, we started at the concept stage, which meant that we could, um, fully give the virtual production opportunity its best, um, ability. And we ended up. Then we Christmas, so then everybody was very snoozy. Um, and then on the 7th of January we got the green light to go ahead with the, the shoot. The actual shoot was the 25th and the 26th. And then we edited and graded and then delivered on the 3rd of February for the launch on, um, the 4th which is very, very quick. Uh, if anyone's familiar with production, uh, that's a very, very quick one. Um, and we, but, but we were so efficient with it, and the, the team at Oracle Red Bull Racing are amazing. They're so good. They're ready to kind of take on new and innovative ways of doing things, which is super helpful for us, and they'd put their trust into us to explore that with them. So we then, uh, we worked on our concepts. We, we understood the, the trajectory of channel like Oracle Red Bull Racing Wanted to, um, win the hearts of America because America had, hadn't chosen the team that they wanted to root for. So we ended up coming up with the idea of the RB19 being dropped off in Manhattan, Nevada, but it should have been dropped off in, in Manhattan, New York, which is where they were having the, the launch of the RB19 at the classic cars, um, club. So we, our director for this one was Chris McKenna. And, um, he lives out in la so he went with one of our producers, um, who's also based in LA and did some drone shoots. Um, acro went to the desert and it snowed. Like, I'm really sad and that's not what it's supposed to do. That we, we ended up doing an extra pickup day. because we had the time to, um, the, they picked up, uh, drone, um, footage and, uh, plates, car plates. So we had drones for the great big, like, you know. Uh, vast wides, and then we had plates that we were going to then use for the, um, on the volume. Um, so we captured that across different places. We did Austin, the Circuit of the Americas there, where we're able to go around the actual track and pick up the, the footage from that. We used to drone for that. We had Nevada. We went all over America essentially, and then we, uh, were able to take that drive with us. Um, Chris McKenna flew over. Um, that was the, like, in truth, that was the only bit of this whole production that wasn't Super green, and it was that part of the, the, the flight that that, um, Chris came over on was, you know, the, the carbon footprint element of it. Still was only 168 pounds, GBP, that we had to offset. Offset. So given the kind of breadth of everything that we had achieved with the production, it still was super sustainable. Um, anyway, he came over, we had our DIT that was set up who then was able to put on a, a LUT that could go. We then split that footage to our VFX team that could then work on the wides, like the Hoover Dam wide. And then we, uh, the rest of it went onto our volume. We then did the shoot. The shoot was like I said earlier, like all of the crew were like, why, God, this is so much fun. And it was just such a great atmosphere. Um, the, come the second shoot date, the client were like, oh, do you know what the ev we've got really beautiful shots of, um, the different sponsors that were on the car, but didn't have like the, the Red Bull across the of the nose cone. We were like, okay, well we want to problem solve that. But were in, um, in Wakefield and we didn't have the right grip to, um, you know, to be able to do the top down. And we didn't have a green, uh, piece of fabric and we. Decided that we would explore because if we'd already built these environments in Unreal, that we were using the 3D environments were there and ready with our artists. Um, we had the model of the car already in Unreal as well we've been using it for previs and um. Working out our kind of shoot book. Um, and essentially we rendered out a, uh, a pass of the car coming out of the crate, um, which then went directly into our edit because of we are able to, you know, build such photorealistic, um, captures that it could just render out straight directly and go into our our edit, which meant that our client was super happy because of then they've also got that, that winning shot.

Joey Daoud: 30:42

So you're saying, so this entire shot, so it's like an overhead shot looking down at the car comes out of a crate and we're looking down and we see the nose and the front wing come out with Red Bull on it. So that entire shot was rendered with Unreal?

Hanah Draper: 30:53

Yeah, that's, that's it. So we, we, uh, did a kind of formula of different shots, um, to put together the, the full spot. So we used 3D Unreal environments on the volume. We also built driving plates in Unreal that we could then use. We rendered out and used on the volume, which is that one where you see the Miami driving plate. And then you see the rocket kind of come up in the background. So that was, that was how that was done.

Joey Daoud: 31:22

So that completely, uh, virtual or that was rendered and Unreal.

Hanah Draper: 31:26

Yeah, that's it. And then the, um, and then so we were able to create like, the smoke coming up and, um, and, and encourage a bit more of that kind of atmosphere. Um, we then also had, obviously, as we mentioned, our drone shots and our car plates. We then cut it in with some archived footage of like Red Bull, had curated, used some of their archive footage

Joey Daoud: 31:49

shots from like the past races. Like kinds of-

Hanah Draper: 31:51

Exactly. Like them being absolutely baller. Um, and, you know, nod to Max Verstappen winning another one. Uh, he is-

Joey Daoud: 31:59

Well, I don't think anyone have predicted at that point how, uh, dominant that this season would've been.

Hanah Draper: 32:04

I know. Yeah we did that through virtual production, not really. Um, the RB19 is just mega. Um, and yeah, it was super fun. And, and then like part of that as well. So then, um, Max and Checo did their, they recorded their lines so they didn't have to be on set where they had their helmet-

Joey Daoud: 32:25

Like the Mandalorian. Yeah.

Hanah Draper: 32:26

Yeah. yeah, exactly. The reflections had their helmet on precisely. Um, uh, and then Christian Horner, he recorded, we, we had a session with our director and Christian Horner to, to kind of, um, work on the performance of some of the lines that he did. But it, it, there was, you know, they had problems. Um, they didn't, they didn't have their car, they didn't have their drivers, and they needed it to be shot in like six shot- and delivered in six weeks. And virtual production solved that. And we got, and also the, the car can only, uh, can only do like 50 kilometers or 50 miles for marketing purposes before it classifies as being testing. So actually they, they wouldn't have been able to do a road trip across America in the same way, unless we had done it like that. And then for the post-production schedule, it was speedy, because we'd done our VFX shots, we'd already built our edit in our pre-production. Then when we got to the actual shoot, we were then just pulling in Final Pixel through camera, and then we slot that into our edit. And then we did great, and then we delivered. Um, so, you know. Speedy, speedy

Michael McKenna: 33:39

It's the speed that honestly, like you could never have done this any other way. Like this is, you know, and this is what we are taking to our other clients as well and brands and saying, look, like if you think about the technology and the possibilities of this technology is now providing not just the virtual production stage, but as Hanah was saying, you know, the, the Unreal engine environment. So we can repurpose environments across the whole pipeline. We could de previs and then use that previs, as Hana said, like in the final shot. And like we, that that's, that's true. We had previs cars that were part of the previs, but they're now going in this Final Pixel into the edit. This stuff like this is groundbreaking I think in film tv, and so we're trying to bring that like compression of the tech, the potential compression of timelines to brands and saying, well, look, you know, if you could- you shoot more faster, you know, to this kind of quality. You know, if you could, if you could change the speed of content creation, how might that change your campaigns? How might that change how you approach filmmaking as a whole? And I think that's the really big revolutionary thing in this is how we're through the technology side, shifting the change in how you approach doing things at the front end.

Hanah Draper: 34:49

And how. might utilize asset in another part of your, um, of your workflow? So if, for example, and Oracle Red Bull Racing, feel free to call us if you want us to, uh, explore this. But if you then tick that, uh, desert in Nevada that we've built for you in Unreal and you wanted to give a, um, an experience, an augmented experience to fans to come in and sit in a, in the plastic pig and feel like they were racing across a desert or on the circuit of the Americas, we can do an augmented reality experience as well as your film, as well as, uh, we could create a game within that environment that allowed you to, you know, uh, jump up and down like a Super Mario Kart, uh, vibe out of it. Like you could cross-pollinate so many different sections of the industry, but you are only paying for the environment. Well, you're probably going to have to pay a little bit more if you want all of those things. But only paying for the environment that you've built. You are building once. But it can be utilized across many, multiple different platforms.

Joey Daoud: 35:53

Mm-Hmm..Uh, and yeah, that'll tie into, uh, what I want to talk about when we close up about the, uh, the Sphere. Um, because yeah, it seems like it's just all this technology is overlapping in different ways and experiences. Um, one thing, so I- to clarify about one thing with the, the spot. Um, so the wide, because it's a mixture of like a lot of close up shots of the car, and then wide shots that you mentioned were like drone plates. And so those were, uh, you added the car in the plates. So it was never, wasn't like the streets were shut and you drove the

Hanah Draper: 36:23

Yeah. So that was like traditional Yeah, exactly. The car was also, I forgot to say it was embargoed so nobody could see it. Um, but yeah, there was also the traditional kind of VFX workflow of comping in the car on the plates that we'd shot.

Joey Daoud: 36:39

Yeah. Got it. Um, no, that's fascinating. Did, did, um, I mean, well I imagine with a lot of marketing campaigns, you do have a lot of previs and kind of rough editing beforehand anyways. So is that pretty par for the course anyways by having or anything in this process help speed up? Previs and pre-pro where you're having that crazy post schedule, it was just like, oh, well we already know because we're just going we to, already saw this. We just it in.

Hanah Draper: 37:06

Give an example of a different shoot that we've done recently where we previs, and it's been so efficient. So, uh, we had a shoot where, um, where we had to shoot up a, um, a New Zealand, uh, mountain. And we needed to have lots of different products placed within the, um, the setup for this. And the client was very particular about obviously how their products look with each other and the, the choreography and the, the mise-en-scene of that. Um, and obviously with Unreal Engine what you're able to do is, is put in your actual camera and your actual lenses and we could build the, uh, foreground, um, for the shot. We could then place in the product because there's lots of different workflows that you can do that with. Now we can just scan in a, scan a product and then put it into Unreal. And it then meant that we knew exactly what lens would be right for these products to be in that particular shot. Um, how, where the environment needs to be placed, like. Uh, we're going into too much detail because it hasn't aired yet, but there was, there was some specifics that they wanted for the end shot to land on. Um, we were able to utilize that ability to kind of choreograph, for want of a better word, how we would then shoot the, the final piece. Um, and it meant that. Before we'd even got to the shoot day, we much signed off on everything. And especially in advertising, that's surprising because there's, you know, there's usually a that you need to be nailing down on on the actual shoot. But we, we'd cleaned it so we, um, we from a fire, a four day shoot. Um, um, but that was, that was really breezy. Like everyone was having a great time. Like everybody was in really high spirits because if the, the pressure was off a little bit. Um, so it goes to show how much this process can streamline your, uh, so many different areas. Pre-production shoot, post-production that we've, we've seen now that where we've . Gotten quite, uh, nimble with it. Um, We kind of halved the amount of time it would take to do a traditional production, like 50%. We worked out that we've, we've set like we've saved in terms of time and now we are looking at saving around 20% worth of money as well. Like the hard cash. We're actually saving money

Joey Daoud: 39:35

Like the total budget.

Hanah Draper: 39:36

Yeah. And then, and then, you know, it's like, up to 95% more sustainable as well. Like it's,

Michael McKenna: 39:42

That's like, it's only by approaching that as a way of filmmaking, you know. Like if you approach it as um, I'm going to like phone up the studio and, um, yeah, we're going to do the shoot. I might just like phone up the studio and bring my environment on a memory stick and we'll, we'll come and shoot it and then, yeah, that'd be great. It'll be, it. It'll save us money and it'll look really cool. Like, you know, like that's generally, you know, not going to work . Um, and you're not, or it will work, but you won't get the best out of it. Like, you'll get something out of it, but you are not- the way to really maximize production value and is to Hanah's point that even actually reduce, is to think about it as end to end. You know, from start and work with, you know, the people who understand the production process and the workflow and pre-production and the creative review process of environments and the creation of the environments. Like it's, it's, it's not a kind of light thing to say, oh, let's just take the post-production and move it into pre, you know, that's kind of, people talked about the Mandalorian a lot. Yeah, that's true. But then you need someone to manage the pre . You can't like, you can't just like expect that then this is going to do itself. Like it needs, it needs that same kind of military approach to like post-production that we have. You know, like there is a process there, there's a workflow. You need to apply that same thinking to pre, and like I say, we, this is what we've learned from doing this now for three years, is that you have to like take the holistic view. The technology ultimately is a commodity. The technology can be put up in any studio in this world. But the real, you know, to get the best out of it and to be able to do things in six weeks or whatever, you need that whole formula like put together and And that's what's really exciting. That's what makes it a way of filmmaking. That's what makes it a different way of approaching things. It's not just about going to a studio. It's actually about let's all get in the brain of like how we might do this in a very different way using this technology.

Hanah Draper: 41:30

To add, and I'm surprised that I haven't said these two words at least 10 times already. But risk mitigation is so key in this, like the, the technology, um, Whilst we've got a good handle on it, it's complicated. And if, if you are not thinking about it from a point of view of risk mitigating, then that's when those horror stories that you hear where they, they did virtual production and then it all looked bad, and then so they did it all in post afterwards. And the only reason that that has occurred, it's not because of the technology, it's because the lack of risk mitigation.

Joey Daoud: 42:05

Yeah. I think that just popped up on like a Reddit thread of someone was that was like, I've been on virtual production shoots and everyone I've been on, they've like rotoscoped everyone out and like replaced the backgrounds. Uh, because it doesn't work. And I was like.

Hanah Draper: 42:17

Yeah, and I don't think we've done that once.

Michael McKenna: 42:19

No, in fact, 95%. I think what we've done is been Final Pixel because we came from that way from the start.

Joey Daoud: 42:25

You gotta live up to the name. I mean, that's, you're

Michael McKenna: 42:28

We actually came out because like when we saw the Mandalorian, we're like, that's great, let's go do that. Like, we didn't know at that point in the rot d or however much it So we were like, this is why, this is what like got us to the point of the art and everything. I'm saying like, you know, because we, we wanted to generate and create as much as we can in camera because it. takes you back to a different way of filmmaking as well, which is much more, I think, like exciting for everyone on set. You know, going back to like what Hanah was saying, we've had shoots that people can be so much more invested in this type of a shoot. getting round monitor to see how it's all looking, see how it's all coming together. Like, it's exciting again, it, it's shifting something. Um, and you know, that goes all the way from, you know, all the way up the chain in terms of the production team. But also science said clients, you know, like having producers and people be able to just see and sign off then what they've, what they've seen and send it into the edit and the number of shots. I mean, yeah, sure you can work with VFX. But this is not, there's been a misnomer that this is a VFX form of technology. This is, and, and it's not helped calling it ICVFX and these sort of things because it's not. It's live action filmmaking. It's live production. It's the live bit is what makes it what it is. We also do live events and live shows because our team has learned, and you know, we work with teams as well that have the the live event, um, kind of mentality, which is what this is. Like, you're, you're basically doing, you know, post live on set in front of everyone. Mm-Hmm., everyone watching . You know, like it's a real challenge and it's a real kind of different skillset.

Hanah Draper: 43:58

And I that because of that production background and that mentality, like one of our clients is Warner Brothers Discovery, and they know us for being buttoned up like we are tight on our, because of that kind of risk assessment, um, mentality of things, which means that we serve them as a client in a way that they can have confidence and trust in us. And I think that's, uh, key.

Joey Daoud: 44:24

Going back to like filmmaking, I mean, so how many times on set I mean obviously tons of pre-pro goes into this, but how many times are you on set and being able to see what you're filming? Does some sort of spontaneity come up or something happen where you're like, oh, we can actually like shift the camera a little bit this way or get a different shot this way because we can see it like, whoa.

Hanah Draper: 44:42

I, I have one example of that. So with, uh, we did this, um, piece for, um, BBC Studios called Once on This Spot, and we realized, Uh, David the, the contributor, he was, um, able, we were like, why don't we track that torch? Why don't we track that, uh, art department torch that you have so that when you shine into the environment- and this was on the shoot day, when you shine it into the environment, that light can then shine in real time on the environment as well. And that's like the, the more. Uh, the more you're not worrying about the technology, the more freedom that you have to be creative and the more like these kind of little bits can pop up and you can realize that there's even more, opportunity.

Michael McKenna: 45:31

Yeah, I would say that like back to Hana's point, we've been doing risk mitigation a lot. So, um, and again, that's about like working with clients like Red Bull and working with Warner Brothers and working with, you know, Shutterstock and Sky and other, you know, we have to make sure we're buttoned up and that we're delivering really high production value for this. So risk mitigation is key, but at the same time, like, you know, we are allowing more control back in, like we're trying to bring more and more control back in on set so that you can have more and more. You know, happy accidents and things, you know, you can have many more things that, um, because the technology's there to do it, it's just about having it, you know, as I said, brought into this process in a way which we're managing the risks. And so our world building team, which we'll hear a lot more about next year into 2024, there's a lot of work going on there at the moment. But you'll see the type of thing we're talking about, which is about bringing that control back again. So yeah, you can have your beautiful environments, you can have all this stuff, but look, we also want to make sure the directors and the DOPs can have that craft that they really want, you know, um, beyond some of the kind of basic stuff that you can do with under, and beyond kind of trying to lock everything in before we get on set. We kind of, we're kind of setting the rule book for virtual production by saying, you know, this is how you do it. But we're also in the background tearing that up and we're going and it's going to change. So like anyone who thinks that virtual production is like, there's a rule or this is how it works, like you're kidding yourself. This is completely changing every month. You know, it is changing every month already. You know, water foliage this time last year- oh, don't go near water foliage now. Bring it on. It looks amazing like this is that you cannot write like, this is what it's good for, this is what it's bad for. And like, stand by that for months because it's changing so fast. And that's, that's what we do. Like, we're right at the front. This is where we're calling ourselves, you know, innovation works. Like we're constantly having to innovate in the face of all these changes and find ways to then bring that controller, bring these new features to um, filmmakers.

Hanah Draper: 47:24

We are the surface as well. We are like we've, there's so much potential and so much opportunity and. Uh, like just on the water and footage like, um, so one of our environment artists had been working on, um, uh, in Lay Lake, in Myanmar. And, um, we had like a little demonstration, internal demonstration of it and Before she'd even said where it was, I was like, oh my God. I've been there. I've been, I've been to Inlay Lake. And then Chris Bouchard, our VP supervisor. So his background was like Framestore, ILM, Lux Machina. Now he's with us and he's a magician. Um. Just in case you hear it, Chris, um, the, uh, know, the, he'd been to Inno Lake as well, and we were all like, oh my goodness. Like talking about when we were in Myanmar and how, you know, and it, it, conjures up all of this really evocative experience. Um, the, it was, it like the water is amazing, the way the more the water moves, like the, and the, you know, the way that it was built, like, it, it's just so impressive what you can do.

Joey Daoud: 48:32

Mm-Hmm I know we're coming up on time. Last question. So we had the Vegas Sphere, Vegas race, F1 race just happened. So what are your thoughts of a lot of the, you know Sphere has been getting a lot of buzz, but it's using a lot of the same technology that's in virtual production. You mentioned like, yes, you could take these assets and potentially do things with them. So like what are you thinking of the vir, like sort of just the, future of immersive experiences and

Michael McKenna: 48:54

I mean, I would, yeah, I would love to make a, a film, you know, for something like that. And, and this comes from the same thinking, if you like, that we apply to what we're doing right, it's like if now you know, the technology and the possibilities of kind of what you can do there, how do you then bring that all the way as far up the chain as possible to win your concept in creative or writing a script? You know, write a script for the sphere that is, uh, a film, you know, like a, in our sense, you know, a, a drama, something that, you know, you could actually tell in a different way. Like I find it amazing thinking about having a big space like that. You could, you could zoom into like a really small square of it and you could bring everyone's attention into that. Always part of a, a story, always part of the storytelling experience. You know, like not an abstract thing, not a demonstration, but you know, part of a script that we've written and like, you know, take someone's attention into that small area and then like at other moments, you know, explode around them and bigger. And, and, you know, I'm sure people are already doing this, but I would love to be able to like, write something that was specifically based around, you know, um, that sort of, you know, experience. Um, and then, you know, . Beyond that, like how do you then what? Bring in actors and you could have like a live performance that goes with it as well. And you could think, well how else could we tell this story? You know? And it's about taking that, um. Technology and um, importantly bring that all the way up to the storytelling. And that's, that's, you know, like there's been, there's been people doing courses for writing in Unreal, for example, in the last couple of years. But like, there's still a big gap in that area, I think, you know, and, and, and um, you know, and being able to sort of go from that early script screenplay stage and then turn it into something which is really going to take advantage of this technology. But that would be for the inside, obviously. I don't know if Hanah, you've got any ideas for the outset?

Hanah Draper: 50:35

And mine was really boring actually. I was like, well, we should just like, for the outside, we should just create what was there, so then you could, it is probably, you probably can't do that for like aviation purposes just in case anything flies into it. But like if then just like replicated what the landscape would've looked like before, and so the severe just disappeared.

Joey Daoud: 50:57

Here, they do like these wraparounds, the utility boxes. That'll be like, wrapped with like a photo of if it wasn't there, what it look like. So just a giant wraparound of an invisible sphere. Yeah. It can have like a little like warm hole or something in it where you're like, oh, it looks like the skyline, but there's something a little off with it or something.

Hanah Draper: 51:15

Yeah. Yeah. It's purple.

Joey Daoud: 51:17

Yeah. Well, it's been great. Uh, where can people find out more info? And I know you've got your own podcast you just relaunched, so like what, uh,

Michael McKenna: 51:24

Yeah. Um, Hanah can tell you about the Inner Frustum. Um, we've also got our website, you know, finalpixel.com. Best thing we'll to do is follow us on, um, social media, you know, LinkedIn, Instagram. That's where you get with the latest. Um, and yeah, and, and, you know, Joey's podcast cause you know, hopefully we can come back next time and tell you more about world builders in particular next year, like once that all starts to ramp up.

Joey Daoud: 51:45

I am definitely down for part 2. Yeah,

Hanah Draper: 51:47

we'll keep this conversation open.

Joey Daoud: 51:49

All right. Well, thank you so much.

Michael McKenna: 51:50

Thanks, Joey.

Hanah Draper: 51:51

Thank you so much.

Michael McKenna: 51:52

Thanks for having us.

Joey - Shure Mic: 51:53

And that's a wrap for this episode of VP Land. Many thanks to Michael and Hanah for coming onto the show. You can find links to any of the projects or videos mentioned in the show notes for the episode. Also, if you're listening to this, we have a video version of the episode that has videos of everything we're talking about added into the video. So be sure to check that out on our YouTube channel, easiest way, ntm.link/youtube. And also remember, sign up for our newsletter, ntm.link/vpland. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a five star review in your podcast app of choice. Or if you're watching this on YouTube, give it a thumbs up and also in the YouTube comments. Let us know your thoughts. Let me know what you think and who you'd like to see on the podcast next. Thanks for watching. I'll catch you in the next episode.