From Europe to Hollywood: Inside VFX Production with TRIXTER's Christina Caspers

Join us for an insightful conversation with Christina Caspers, General Manager of TRIXTER, one of Europe's leading VFX companies. Christina shares her unique perspective on industry changes, technological innovation, and the future of visual effects.

In this episode, we explore:
✅ The evolution of virtual production in Europe
✅ How VFX companies are adapting to smaller budgets
✅ The impact of AI and machine learning on VFX workflows
✅ Cultural differences between European and American production
✅ The challenges of being a female leader in tech

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📝 SHOW NOTES & SOURCES

Christina Caspers
https://www.linkedin.com/in/christinacaspers

TRIXTER
https://www.trixter.de

Dark Bay Virtual Production
https://www.dark-bay.com

Netflix Virtual Production Playbook
https://www.vp-land.com/p/netflix-virtual-production-playbook

VES Awards
https://www.vesglobal.org/23rd-awards/

FMX
https://fmx.de/en/home

LEDcave
https://www.ledcave.de

Studio Babelsberg
https://www.studiobabelsberg.com

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⏱ CHAPTERS
00:00 Intro
01:20 Virtual Production at Dark Bay
03:02 Netflix and Virtual Production
06:10 VP in Europe vs. U.S.
07:15 VES Awards
11:10 AI Policies 
16:44 Challenges with Limited Budget
21:45 Germany vs. U.S. Electricity Costs
24:26 Challenges in the German Film Industry
27:40 Tax Incentives in L.A.
30:52 Innovation and Change Management
34:35 Working at TRIXTER
40:53 Female Leadership
47:19 The Future of the VFX Industry

Transcript

0:19

Welcome back to Denoised. Joey is at HPA Tech retreat. Today I have a very special guest. I have Christina Caspers. Hello. Hello. Welcome back to LA. Thank you. It's a pleasure being here. Oh, it's our pleasure. Christina, do you want to introduce yourself to the viewers? Absolutely. I can do so. Hi, my name is Christina Caspers. I'm currently the general manager at TRIXTER. TRIXTER is one of Europe's leading visual effects companies. So we're working mainly for international clients, AKA LA-based clients. This is also one of the reasons I'm here. We're also working for streaming vendors a lot and what I'm doing, I'm not only the boring person for budgets, but I'm also looking into new technology and how can we embrace this when we are looking forward for new shows with smaller budget but large scale visions, creative visions. So how can we embrace that? Before doing that, I was the managing director at Dark Bay. Dark Bay. Dark Bay was or is a virtual production stage based in Berlin. Back then it was the largest in the world. Yes, I remember. It's not easy to put an entire ship into a volume. Yes. And I have to say it was not the entire ship. There are CG elements to it and I'm happy that you haven't recognized it because this means we have done good work. Exactly. No, this was like really, really a big thing because we have built in three months during the pandemic a 55 meter long, 7 meter high wall. I do not know what that's in feet. Actually 55 meter is very long. That is going to be 55 yards. So 160ft. That's very large. Yeah, it was just like. And lots of people are often asking like, why is it exactly 55 meters? It's just because then the budget was gone. So that's it. Yeah, that's where we ended with the wall. Dark Bay, I mean to this day is one of the best executed virtual production based shows to be made. Thank you. This was then exactly what we did with 1899 with the Netflix show we did in there first. It was, I mean the idea back then was how the heck can we do such a show based in the year 1899? Playing in the year 1899 on a ship in many different areas of the world, fictional and non fictional. And the only way to do it was like we're using virtual production and back then we only know the Mandalorian, the big one. And we had YouTube videos. That's it. That was the base. Oh wow. Here we Go. And a lot of money to build a wall. Thanks to our streaming friends who have provided that. Well, Netflix has been such an early supporter of virtual production. Right. It wasn't just 1899, it was the last Airbender. Even to this day they're doing Sena, the Brazilian show. And I mean, it's really cool because Netflix is really one of the companies and the entertainment, entertainment streaming providers that are really helping the industry also to move forward. So when we're looking into, as a VFX vendor, we're getting guidelines on virtual production where we can look into a certain standardization which also helps the industry. And this is great because when we're normally coming to a set and we're also doing as TRIXTER, a little bit of virtual production backgrounds and we're getting there. And then it's just like, okay, but how do you do this? Normally when we're entering a VP stage, a smaller one, and not everyone, but some of them, they are not really have done a lot of shows before, to phrase it in a friendly way. And then we're coming in and we're basically teaching before we can do the shoot. And this is great when you come in and have like a common training be done, a common, like this is our standard that we want to achieve and this is how we go. And so kudos to Netflix. Kudos to Netflix. And also they released, I don't know what they call it, the guidebook or the playbook on virtual production. So they are making a big effort on standardizing this new thing. Yeah. And it's actually not a new thing. That's also what I always wanted to. Sorry. No, no, it's. Yeah, go on. It's just like, it's really. Sometimes I feel like people are fearing these new things while it's not really still a new thing. I mean, we're having it. Yes. High end virtual production is in the industry for now, five years, six years, something like that. I mean, but like background plates for interactive lighting are there for way longer. Stanley Kubrick used it. You know, you could see it with film projectors from a long time ago. Even modern ICV effects, what we think with LED tile ICV effects. I mean, Star Wars movies used it in 2018, 2017. Exactly. So it's been around for a minute. Exactly. So I hope that this helps to also get a little bit like reduce the fear of using it. Yes. What I'm still facing is like a DoP or an executive producer coming in and saying like the producers obviously saying, is this really saving money because the stage is way more expensive. Yes, but there is way more equipment in the stage. That's why it costs more. But you can save money afterwards in. The post production and not just money time. Yeah, yeah. And it's. You're speaking from the bottom of my heart. I fully agree to this. But really getting people convinced about this process, that's a long way to go. Yeah. I mean, you and I are both huge VP advocates and we've done our. We've done our duty spreading the word. And I feel like it is making a little bit of a difference. You are seeing the uptick in the use of virtual production. So, I mean, you're handling a large VFX team. Tell me a little bit about how much increase in VP are you seeing? It depends if we're looking at Europe or if we're looking at the States. Sure. So when we're looking at Europe, it's slowly going there. So when we have like a car plate shoot, we're already like, hey, great. You're using new technology because the fear of making it as big as 1899, for example, was. That's the unfortunate truth is not many German production companies want to go over there and do this. But when I come to the States, it's just like, hey, how can we embrace it? How can we use more virtual production? So this is like really, how can we involve you from the very beginning, secure capacity for the post production while using you in the pre production. Yes. That's efficiencies. This is how we go forward. And this embracing the whole. The whole workflow. That's great. And this is happening here. Yes. So it's getting more and more virtual. The use of virtual production getting more and more normal. Okay. So this is what I'm seeing currently at the moment. Also yesterday I was at the VES Awards. Yeah. How was that? That was interesting. That was. I didn't go this year, but I went last year. This was my first time at the VES Awards. Even though I'm a member of the or I'm a board member of the Visual Effects Society in Germany. Okay. I have never made it here in time. So this was like. It was totally interesting because it fulfilled like every checkbox of what I was thinking in time. You're in a fancy dress. Exactly. Men are in fancy tuxes. It's a formal affair. Exactly. I had my glass of sparkling wine. There was this photo thingy where everybody. Had just like, hey, red carpet photo booth. Absolutely. With the drop in, drop and step yeah. And then there was, like, the handing of the awards. It's so formal. Totally. It's just like I was just waiting for the sentence. And the Oscar goes to. Exactly. They open the envelope. Yeah. But Keanu Reeves was there. Yes. At the very end. And I was just like, oh, that's cool. That's cool. You don't get to see Keanu much. He's very elusive. Is he? Yeah. Well, in LA, we get to see a lot of celebrities everywhere. Right. You know, there are certain spots you can go to, and they're just. That's where they have breakfast or whatever. Right. You don't see Keanu much, actually. Yeah. Okay. So I'm glad you got to see him. Yeah. It was just like. This was. This was my personal fan moment. Fangirl moment. So. And last time I was here, I was actually at a bar in a famous hotel here, Chateau Marmont. And there were also some interesting people around who could, like, do my little German fangirl moment. Yeah. It's like, hi, you don't know me, but I know you. I try to be like. I'm probably too shy to go there and say, like, hi, I'm Christina. But I would love to have taken photos. Obviously. I think you being German is a positive thing. And you are more approachable. Yes. Because you are more genuine. So use that to your advantage. Thank you so much. But I see a certain difference when looking at my clients. For example, in Germany or in Europe and in the States, it's a different approach to a project or a topic that is a little bit delicate. Talking about projects. It's way more straightforward here in the States because you get a contract, you do your stuff. Thank you. That's great. While contract negotiations in Germany are a nightmare. Really? Yeah. Why? I have no clue. Yeah. But this word in this sentence might mean that coming back to the other clause, it's not good. It's really like, I do not have an English word for that, but when you put it into Google Translator, it's. I like that sound of that. It means like, hey, come on, guy, this is really not a problem. So get the things done. And yeah, we're currently negotiating with one company for a project that is like 500k, which is really not much for us. A little bit more than that, but not so much more. We're negotiating for three months about a contract. Three months? Three months. And it's just like, my lawyer costs are higher than this contract value already. Yeah. I think the States, we're much more transactional and Our velocity. Yeah. We don't have patience here for stuff. So if it's a no, it's a no. We just go our separate ways. That's great. I mean, now I'm having one project where we're still. I mean, a lot of studios currently developing AI classes in their contract, and this takes time, especially when it's a bigger studio. Yes. So we're having. We're currently doing CoE, so certificates of engagement. And they're just like, next day, here's the certificate, here's the money, let's get the project started. Lovely. Yeah. What a time we're living in. They're building in AI clauses. On my last episode, Joey and I were talking about the Academy putting in an AI regulation. So I guess all the movies that are going to be nominated next year, they'll have to disclose what kind of AI has been used. I mean, we're doing. When we're working on a project, no matter if it's a European or an international one, we always have to say, okay, these are the tools we have used. These are our homegrown machine learning tools that we are using and how we use them. We do not have to disclose our code, of course, because that's our ip, but we have to go certain steps in order to confirm what we used. And I also have to sign with my blood as the general manager, that I don't use anything else than that. That you are here to tell the truth and nothing but the truth, really. It's just. And I do understand it. I also had a long discussion with a friend about this because it might also mean that you're regulating yourself, obviously, with not looking further of how can we do certain things differently with using probably other AI tools. Yeah. I mean, while we're on that topic, it feels like you're clearly innovating at TRIXTER and you were innovating at Dark Bay, and that's in your blood. What are your thoughts on AI in Europe in Germany versus AI here? I mean, first of all, I still have to differentiate probably in Germany, because I think I have the lucky situation, having a team around me that embraces new technology. A lot of companies, I also know in Germany, VFX companies, they are saying, we're not using any AI or machine learning because a lot of their employees are afraid of losing their jobs. Where I have to say, if you're afraid of losing your job, you're probably not doing your job great. You've already lost your job. Exactly. You're fearing the loss of your job. Exactly, exactly. So this is something where I'm really in a lucky spot to have a team around that says, what can we try out next? But still there is a lot of hesitance from the studios, European side. While when I come to the States, it's just like, wow, what can we use? Let's. Let's develop together. Is there any tool that you want to try out? And we look together into if we can use the code and if there is any code in there that is probably not offline, but online. Okay. So they are very helpful and supportive, open minded. Well, exactly. While we're having like the German. The Europeans one, they are more like. Let's not mention it. I mean officially mentioning again is another thing because we have done several projects now with the usage of. We call it machine learning at this point in time. Because this is more friendly towards everybody, public relations wise. Yeah, that makes sense. I think you'll find those keywords in every studio and every VFX shop. There is other language to say the same thing. Exactly. What we're meaning is the same. But how do we get there? But we still can't officially publish any trailers, for example, or any breakdowns where we have used it. Where I would love to say like, hey, listen here. We had a certain deaging, aging. Just use simple examples. Not saying like how we automize other. Like you can't submit a SIGGRAPH paper and win a SIGGRAPH award. I would love to. I mean I would love to win a SIGGRAPH award, by the way. You should. Yes, I would. I mean I think we're having really great things, but which I would love to talk about. And I can be only that vague. So we did it. We do deaging, aging, automatization of certain processes. How can we speed up things that have possibly taken like three people, three weeks now it's one person, two days. Fantastic. Lovely. You know, I feel, and you know, I feel like a lot of the innovation at TRIXTER and the forward thinking is the general manager. So it is you and you seem like an outlier in Europe. Is that. Would you say that's the case? Like your operating system is maybe slightly different? I would say our operating system is different. I mean it's hard for me to say that I do things better than another person does because that's not my personality. Of course, but. But you dance to a different beat. How about that? Exactly. I like that one. That's a good one. What's happening there is like at FMX, which is like huge fair. And Jean-Michel. Yes, I love FMX. Exactly. FMX. So we love being there. And they have every year also a CEO summit, they call it, which is behind closed doors, where we can talk quite openly. And there I'm interestingly, the only or one of the rare people from the European market really talking openly about how can we use technology and other subjects. I do not know that we have that always done that way. So why the heck should we change it? Because it's working. And just like. But it's. You already see, it's not working anymore. We had the pandemic, we had the strikes, we had the fires. Now this has changed a lot in the industry and it's a moving target. Exactly. Your old methods are not going to work because we're in a new world. Yeah, we're in a new target. Speaking of which, I think something you mentioned to me was you're seeing this disparity with budgets getting smaller. Obviously we can have a whole episode about that and at the same time the creative vision getting bigger. And so we're in a necessity is the mother of invention situation. Tell me a little bit about that. Absolutely. Exactly. I always see the triangle. You have like the creative vision of showrunners or any other creatives. You have the budget, and then there is a certain technology that is theoretically available. So I'm missing that. This is my triangle. And you can only have normally two angles of the triangle. But if you consider creative innovation, technology, machine learning, virtual production, whatever it might be, as part of the innovative process of creating a project, this can be so beneficial for the budget that you can exactly realize this creative vision. Because what I'm seeing again, on the European market, normally you have a budget, you have a treatment, and then you write towards the budget and not towards the treatment. And this is so sad because there are great ideas out there. Absolutely. But then you just like you're cutting it off and you're telling a story in an apartment rather than on the fifth Avenue. Yeah. Just because you do not want to shoot there because you can't afford it. And this is sad. Or you can't tell a story where you have one camera move just from inside to the outside. And this is just like you always have to do edits. And this is so. It's so sad seeing that we do have the tools available, but some of the people, or many people, I have to say, still they are not willing to involve the creative technologists at the very beginning of a movie or any other project. Why do you think that is aversion to risk or is it just that there is not a strong belief in technology? It's aversion to risk for them, I would say, because my experience is the minute. Many people also have made bad experiences with technologies, but these bad experiences mainly come from we're getting a consultant in that pretends to have experience. I'm always saying, just go to IMDb and check out what these guys have done before. And if you see that there is basically nothing on it, you probably should consider if this is the right consultant you want to go for. But you can always. This hints to bad experiences and then you're talking about your bad experiences. So what we should do and what I'm emphasizing, getting a trained pool of people that can really go out and go into these processes and take the fear away. Yesterday at the VES Awards, I was sitting next to a DOP. He's not 90, 79, I think, or 80 almost. And he was telling me, the best thing in my life is virtual production. Because first that's what we need to hear. I was just like telling him, okay, can you please be my advertisement guy? Yes. And I sent you out in the world. She's like, yes, of course, why not? And no, he said like the first time he sees what the outcome is. So he does not need blue, green screen. So he just like, he knows his lighting situations, he can do his shots and it's all great. So that it. Do you remember his name? Richard Crudeau, maybe. I have to admit, he was on the list of the invites of my table. I will, I will give that later. Yeah, well, that's the thing. There isn't that many that, like, I'm guessing he's a highly accomplished DP. A lot of them. And I'm just generalizing here. I'm sure there's, you know, differences in every dp, but they've hit such a success level that they do not want to change the way they achieve success. Yeah. And so if VP is going to endanger their reputation, their career, they're not going to really mess with it. That's exactly what I had at Dark Bay. I was just like, I had so many experiences where I convinced the production team because I'm having a production background, so this is easy for me. But how can I, I convince a DoP? I can't because I'm not able to create the same creative output. And these people came in and say, like, I'm afraid to lose my reputation when trying this out. So what we did, we created A safe space, invited people. Did like a sample scene with a foreground, a background, nothing like super simple. So that it's also something to play with. And we invited dops and other creatives to come in and try out. In an environment where you don't get judged if something is not working, that's it. You need to create a sandbox. Yeah, exactly. And that takes some of the aversion of risk away. Right. But it's complicated. But that also costs money and people time. Exactly. And the electricity. And the electricity. So interesting you say that. Here is one big difference between Germany and America that I found in my Disguise days. We have a customer in Germany called LED Wall. Yeah. I don't know if they're in Berlin, maybe Munich. I. I heard. I do not know where they're based, actually. I have to admit. So, long story short, we were talking about doing our training program there, and of course, cost comes up. Who's going to pay for this? Who's going to pay for that? And the gentleman on the LEDcave side said, what about the electricity? It's very expensive to run a wall. And my American mind is like, I've never even thought of this. We don't think about it. That's crazy. That's crazy because this was one of the most. The most crucial things we also had at Dark Bay. So just like. Because we can't, like, decide on the electricity that we're getting in, this comes via the lot on Studio Babelsberg. So there is a certain price that we have to pay. And we're giving this one to one to our clients. Yeah. By the way, the LEDcave guys are sitting in Berlin. Okay. Yes, yes, Now I remember. And they also have facilities in Cologne and somewhere else. Oh, right, right. They're a rental house for live events as well. Exactly, exactly. And then they have, like, different lots available. But really, this was a lot of the case. And I have this in my. And when I do a quote, I always had this, like, excluding electricity, and that's what it costs. And this could be really expensive. It was always the decision, do we turn the Wall on? That's cool. Crazy. Yeah. We don't even think about it. Like, we. We're not. We know there's a lot of electricity burning, but I guess the cost is negligible. And it's not really. It's not negligible, but it's just not something you think about. We're thinking about what lens to put on that arri. Right. Like, we're thinking about actual decision Making. I love that when we're at the. When we're exactly at the spot where that we start thinking about lenses, about cameras, about this stuff that's about framing. Yeah. Oh my God. Being at that stage, we already like. Let'S get another take. But in Germany, I imagine another take is going to cost us electricity. Can we just wrap it up? Exactly. Yeah. Different environment. Totally different environment. Really, totally different environment. Also the. Exactly the. The budgeting and the costs and how much can we really get for this and how much do we know what comes in the schedule tomorrow so that we can probably save another scene here and there. This was just like. Yeah. On a side note, I. A good friend of mine, Joerg, is now the head of Babelsberg, Studio Babelsberg. Yes. I'm on a panel with him next week talking about the German film industry. Awesome. Joerg is. That's so cool. He's like, great. Because we're having the same intention on that panel because it's about funding in Germany, which is a big thing because we're not competitive to the other countries around. And Joerg and I are saying like, we can't do it or we will say we can't do it without the tax incentive system and we need to get that in place soon because otherwise we can't. Like you need an accelerator, you need something to push this thing. Yeah. And it's just that we're having such a. Can I say stupid? Of course. We have such a stupid system where we have like a state funding and federal fundings and sometimes you can combine them, sometimes not. And they are sometimes checked and they are all kept at a certain level. And it's so complicated. If I were American, I would never, probably never go to Germany to shoot because George, just like the hurdles to get there and the service production that you always have to involve in order to anyhow do something in Germany. What are your thoughts on Austria and their tax incentives? That's like the next door neighbor. Oh, they have stopped it now. I did not. No, it's just like two weeks ago or something. It came out that the current approved productions can still do it and now they have stopped it. I do not know if why. So I would love to do it in the same way that Austria has done it. And hopefully it was very aggressive. Yeah. 30 and then 5% on top for green shooting. Yeah, that's. I mean I would love to. I would even go with 20 and 5 more percent for green shooting. So 25 would be great. 30 would be better because Then we're competitive with Canada, for example, where you have, like, Montreal, Vancouver. Exactly 29, 26%. The. This would be great. But anything else, I mean, rather than, like, probably you get something. What we're doing at TRIXTER, for example, we're giving a rebate to our clients, and then we try to get something back. But also because it depends on how much German or federal costs you have. And I do not want also my clients to decide on which artists I'm hiring for a certain show. Because this is a little bit too. That degrades the quality. Yeah. And it interferes with how you have to do your job. Exactly. Like, let me run my studio and let me do my thing. You just write the check. Exactly right. That's how it should be. But it's always. It's a huge risk for me when I do the gamble. I give you 20% discount. How can I combine the state funding with a. With a federal funding to get that potentially back? Because one artist only counts for one or the other, and it's a rebate on costs while we give a rebate on the sales. So there are already differences. Yeah. That we have to acknowledge. But we are all taking a lot. We're all leaving alone, left alone with that. So this is, like, very sad. It is very sad. And by the way, incredible work juggling all these plates. And I'm sure your job is not easy. And. Well, you're fantastic. Tax incentives are so complicated. You know, as Angeleno, I was telling you, I grew up in this town, and I remember growing up, there was productions everywhere. Right. Like, you drive down the street, there's a rental van there, there's some lights there, and now you hardly see it. Yeah. So a lot of that has gone away in LA. And, you know, the tax incentives just. It's like an arms race. It just keeps getting crazier and crazier. Like Abu Dhabi is at 50% now. What? Yeah. Right. But why? Why exactly. Why? I mean, I get it. Probably because you have to get. You want to attract. Because the media industry is still like this image thing for many countries. You know, we have Keanu Reeves. We're just talking about Keanu. Exactly. So that's great. That's amazing. But still, it's. So when you do not get the incentives, the studios are just moving to another country. That's the reality. That's it. It's just producers doing number crunching. Yeah. And they're like, the only way I can make this movie is if I go to Abu Dhabi. Yeah. But I mean I saw on when I was doing client visits last week here in la, I had like one guy had a whiteboard and there he had like all the tax incentives listed probably all over the world. I was like wanted to take a picture but I could not really because this was like a really nice overview. And I think they are choosing shooting locations obviously based also on these. And same applies for post production, pre production. You just don't have the talent all over the world. Exactly. And not consistent talent. Yeah. And sometimes it could really hurt your production. Then you're shipping people around. You know, it's not cheap to fly Americans around, I'll tell you that. No, you're flying always business class at first class. Well, it's just, you know, working at disguise. I got to kind of see British salaries and American salaries. Huge discrepancy. Right? Higher in America, of course. So in America you have to pay for private health care, insurance, all those other things. In Europe, or I guess most of Europe healthcare is free. Exactly. A lot of the state stuff is free. So you. The overall package is smaller. Right. That's interesting. So okay, but. But then I mean if you hired by a US company and then you're living somewhere else could be interesting combination, right? Exactly. If that's okay. Interesting. So I now need to apply for a job here in the States while living in Germany. I'm gonna predict, Christina that you're gonna be living in the States in the next 10 years. You're so American by heart. I love it. I mean that in the best way. I was just saying carry everything. So let's see. But I was really considering to move here because at a certain point let's see how everything goes. But I would really like it because I like that here are more entertainment still at the moment, still more entertainment and media than in Germany. Plus as we talk the openness for embracing technology. Innovation. Innovation. Creativity is way higher than Right. Like no other place on the planet are you gonna have open AI. Yeah. Incubate. You're not gonna like the Sphere is like 10 minutes from here. You know, in Burbank like these innovations not just have the brain power is everywhere. Germany has smart people, America has smart people. But we have the perfect recipe for success. It's like easy access to money or relatively easy easy. You know, the cultural openness to innovation and failure. And failure. Like you can fail here and it's okay just go do another company. But that's great. This is really what I'm missing so much in Germany. Really it's when I. I know people who failed on their way and I probably also failed here and there when something did not work out. But this is always just like more finger pointing and not like, hey, this person has learned from it. Also seeing it now we're currently developing to a new version of our pipeline and it's just an internal upgrade, I would say from looking at from the outside. Of course it's painful to a certain extent because you sometimes have to learn new tools in certain areas. We might have a new tool in compositing that people haven't used before. But on the other hand it's saving them time and it gives them a little bit more freedom for other stuff. But going through this process of change management, it's difficult because there are people who have coded pipeline stuff for 15 years in a certain way and now their baby gets changed. How do we deal with that? Yeah, to me change. I mean we experienced that a lot with VP, right? A lot of productions, especially the first time they use virtual production, Unreal Engine is new to them. Something like media servers in disguise is new to them. The fact that they now have to use LED walls to light in addition to actual lights is. Everything's new and I see it like a fork in the road and it's never down the middle. It's either, nope, I hate it, I'm not going to do it or I love it. It's never like, yeah, I guess, you know, it's never wishy washy. But that's great. That's really, really great. Yeah. I mean also the transition to using Unreal in, in classic VFX, we're doing it. Oh really? But yeah, we're using it for, I mean not solely for environments, but we're also using it in some cases, in some cases for environment and a lot for previs Postwiz of course. And there are also like more and more interestingly immersive projects coming in that are based somewhere in Europe for like the release of a project of a feature of an episodic where they want to do a certain entertainment thingy where they get influencers in and doing something to promote the film or the project. So you have unreal talent in house? I do. Because I think we need to have unreal talent in house. Also when we're doing virtual production backgrounds, I do not want to let this go to an LED stage without somebody from my team being there, just really. Knowing it and owning it. Yeah, right. Yeah. And also like there is still this. It also happens in classic VFX when you give one asset to another vendor or to a facility and something is not working, the finger pointing starts. It's your fault. It's your fault. No, it's your fault. And this is why I want to control the process. This might be a German thing that I want to control everything, but I. Really, I think it makes sense though because you're putting your neck on the line every time there's a job. And the reputation of TRIXTER depends on every single job. Absolutely. So you have to take precautions. Thank you for saying. Sometimes I feel like I'm micromanaging. You almost have to operate almost like a legal firm. Like a law firm. Yeah. Right. Like you have to double check, triple check things, redundancies. And then you have to operate as a technology company. Obviously a lot of it is technology and then the last thing is there is sales and marketing. Right. Like the fact that you're here in LA. I'm sure there's some sales going on. Absolutely. This was one of the reasons I came over because I want to see my clients in person. It's so different, so important here. And when you're just going for a coffee, you get some chit chat done. This morning I met one of the supervisors. We're currently working on a project on that gets released this year, mid this year on a streaming platform. I cannot say the name yet. I'm so sorry. But just talking about how the project goes. We're going into crunch time bringing some German chocolate and these little things. They helped so much to move forward and I also like it because I get to know the people better. There is such a difference when you talk like forever. On Zoom especially, it's always with a time difference. Our evening, their morning. And not everybody's a morning or an evening person. Person. Yeah. The time difference between LA and Germany is quite large. It's nine hours. Yeah. And I mean most of our clients are based here so it's really like. That's also why we start actually a little bit earlier and our later. So our teams when they are working with LA, they are normally starting at 10 or 11 ish am in order to be able to have a little bit more overlap. That makes sense. Yeah. Because like our afternoon is probably your nighttime time. Right? Exactly, exactly. Yesterday at the VES Awards when I came back because I didn't drink much, I just like, I just was there like chit chatting all over. So I came back at 1am and then it was like my colleagues started working so. But actually great. I could give an update before I go to bed. So somehow, yeah, it's working out. Here you go. I already have my routine. That's it. So I could come over? Yeah, you should come over. You should definitely come over more. You were saying something earlier about we're in a situation now where we have to use every tool, set everything under the book. Can you tell me a little bit about the pressure that you're in as a VFX studio? And then how are you, how are you diversifying? So the pressure is real. The pressure is on. The budgets are getting way, way smaller, the time is getting more comprehensive and the projects are not as much as they have been before. So, I mean, we're in the lucky situation. After the last year hasn't been amazing, we're now in the lucky situation, having enough projects. It's all good, it's running, but still we have to deliver way more in a shorter period of time. I have to say, the VFX industry was always like the industry that was changing the most because we had to innovate as the. The last department in the row and before everything gets. It was always being squeezed at the very end. Exactly. For decades. Exactly. And it's not getting better. It's really like we see it more and more and what we have to do, we have to use machine learning tools that we develop in house. Because there is still like the concern of what happens if we use OpenAI, any kind of open source tool tools. Where does my data go? So we're developing our homegrown tools in order to be more efficient. I don't see anything wrong with that. If you're using it ethically, you're just leveraging a new thing, a new technology. Absolutely. And you need to do it for your survival and to thrive. Absolutely. And I mean, every. Even though the studio is not talking a lot about it, they're just like, okay, what tools are you using? How can we like embrace them in our, in our process? I mean, there are also studios saying like, we do not want to have to do anything with it, which is also okay for us. Yeah. But then we also have to be aware that certain things take longer. Yes. And this is the reality. It's sequential. Yeah. There is a saying. My old friend who was a VFX used to say, you can't take nine women one month to make a baby. Righty. I know that. You know what I'm saying? Yes. But that's. That's VFX. That's VFX. Exactly. Yeah. And it's Just we have this now. We were just saying like, hey guys, we can't deliver our stuff if we have not. If we do not receive what we need to do in order to create that. And it's just like. And you still have your release date and if you're not pushing the release date, we can't even if we would like put instead of as an example, 10 compositors now, 100 compositors on it, there is still a process to go. So we can't just like squeeze everything and everything. It's automizing it. Talking to the client, a lot of communication. I think the communication level has to go up and does go up way more normally. You got a schedule, you follow the schedule. All good. You have like your reviews, the supervisors are talking. All fine. But with these intense, currently intense schedules, producers have to be more involved, also be more knowledgeable of technology. Ongoing. Yes. And this is something I'm experiencing a lot. But we're getting there. Yeah. No, and the upscaling of producer is something that is so necessary for VP too. Right. Like all like there's. You can't avoid technology anymore. You just have to know it. Right. It's a little bit like I was asking myself, what's the skill set of a VP producer? I was thinking like, okay, so if, if I have a producer going on set in virtual production, it's normally a very experienced VFX producer with on set experience. Right. Because there is a different level of pressure when you're on set and somebody's looking over your shoulder and saying, does. This really take 3 minutes or something crashes and you have to figure it out on set. The fly. I'm going to switch gears now and just bring up who you are. You're a female leader and you're in a. You're in an industry that is high octane. A lot of coffee. Yes. A lot of whiskey. And what is, what are some of the experience like? What's it like being you, Christina? It's interesting. Yes. It's interesting. And that's how I phrase it nicely. No, but it's really like I see it all the times when I'm talking. We have meetings with all VFX companies. Not all, but main VFX companies in Germany. I'm the only female leader in there. We have like organizations where I'm the only female person in this section for VFX, for example. Oh, I once had a very interesting experience. Not that long time ago. Okay, go on. It was share only what you can. I Do not name the organization. But this was really. Please tell me afterwards what you have would have answered if you would have been me. So I was there. We were sitting there is during Berlinala upcoming a panel. And we thought, like. And there was a chairman of the whole organization at the section for VFX. So all VFX companies in again, all the male talent, power, call it whatever, and me and the chairman, also male, elderly guy, and the secretary, the only other female person, obviously the secretary, as usual. And then it came up, like, who's joining that panel from the VFX industry? And the chairman came and said, I think this should be Christina because she brings diversity in the panel. Oh, come on. I was just like. I did not know what to say because, like, okay, no, of course I'm not talented. I'm not intelligent. You didn't get here on your own merit. No, exactly. I'm just like, yes, hi, I'm here because I'm female. But this is the unfortunate reality that is happening a lot. Also. I had another experience where a male colleague of mine was asking me, he thinks we're talking way too much about diversity in the industry because we already have talked about it in three panels, and he cannot hear it anymore. I'm just like, okay. And you're exactly the reason why we need it. Because you're not acknowledging that we're not diverse and that we're not having equal rights and equal opportunities, meritocracy. Just, you know, if you're good at your job, you should do that job. Yeah. Period. Yeah, but that's that it's so complicated. It's just like, I'm so often faced with this also because I'm not yet 60 or 70. And when I'm talking to elder male people, it's also often happening, like this young woman. And then I'm blonde, and then I'm sometimes wearing a skirt, a long one. Obviously, I'm not doing anything else anymore. But it's just like, who are you exactly? Oh, yeah. And who's now really talking? And just like, it's me. Has it gotten better in your career? I mean, you've been a leader for a long time. Would you say, like, the last few years are better? Yes, but because I grew up in my career or a step further up, and with stepping further up, it's getting better, obviously, because you have the reputation. I now have power. And this is when people start acknowledging that I'm there. Yes. But when I started, and I started, like now, 15, 18 years ago, sure. It was like, and I started virtual production. Not virtual production, virtual reality projects. It was, like, very early days of virtual reality. What do we do with this? What's just like. And this crazy lady is coming in the room and just like, oh, forget her. This was the reality back then. Yeah. I mean, I feel like we have to be going towards a better future. Right. I mean, we would not sit here together. You would not acknowledge that. You know that. I mean, I. Look, I am a minority. Right. And I have never had the experience that you like. I've had a couple of incidents. I'm sure you have. Yeah. It's just not. Maybe not as blunt and direct like that, but the fact that you and I, like, I can have my own podcast, and you and I can go to Cannes and be on a panel together. Like, those are all good things, I have to say. Yes. But this is because we're surrounded by the good people. Right. And this is the thing. And this is a privilege I would love to come to only be surrounded by positive good people like you. And you're good people because you're a good person. You're surrounded by good people. And if it's like that, we're building this community up, and I really. I want to get like. And the more I step up in my career, the more I have the chance to not work with the people I do not want to work with. Yeah. But sometimes I had to. Or I had to do this in many occasions. Yes. And this is the freedom I'm getting with the stepping up and saying, like, you know, I don't care what you're doing. I do not want that. Yeah. And this is who I am. Exactly. I'm gonna be who I am. Yeah. So we need to get back to Cannes. Yeah. I missed last year. I know. Keith was there. Yes. Yeah. I need to go back this year. Okay. That's a promise. It's a promise. I'm gonna see. I want to. Yeah. It's a little expensive to go fly from here to France. I mean, we're still looking into. I'm running. Besides what I'm doing an NGO that tries to exactly. Bring the creatives together with the. With the technologists. Okay. The Institute of Immersive Media, the iim. Okay. And so we hopefully have the chance to collaborate with Cannes next again. And then we're doing. With Stan. Exactly. With Stan and the gang. And then we're doing another training program. So probably this is an opportunity, because your knowledge and you as a person, you're always highly welcome. Oh, thank You. You heard it here first. Just like. Not first, I'm sure. Not first. I hope not. Otherwise I'm repeating it all over. Oh, thank you, Christina. No, it's just the truth. What, what's your big takeaway from where we are in the industry today? Everything that's happening with VFX, budgets crunching, AI coming online, and really the industry being so resilient. My big takeaway is, and this is a person told me two and a half years ago when I. When I rejoined Trix after Dark Bay, he said, like, Christina, hang in, it will all get better. And this is the thing I can recommend. Hang in, it will get better and the good people will survive. And karma strikes bad because at a certain point, the people who are not good or willing to cooperate, they will just be alone. And then we're still there and we're bringing the technology forward, the creatives forward, and then we can do cool projects because in the end, what we want is we're not doing a surgery at an open heart. We're doing cool entertainment, which is also important for the world, I have to. Say, especially through tough times. Yeah. To distract from the news that are out there in the world because it's really crazy what's going on. Entertainment brings so much meaning to life. Yeah, right. Without it, how boring would things. I can't imagine going a week without watching a movie. Absolutely. And it's just like, how can I distract from my job in the evenings? Yes, probably. I'm also doing kind of my job, but I'm in bed watching a film just on my laptop. How great is this? But this brings me to the other worlds and this is what I wanted to do. I want to offer the opportunity to get us distract from what's happening all over and over and just get some good emotions over. I love it. And I think ultimately the crunching and the situation being more difficult, the way out of it is collaboration, teamwork, being kind to each other. I know I sound like a elementary school's teacher saying that, but it really, it does feel like, though, there is no room for the old way of doing things anymore. No, it's like there has been this, this tool that was always used for, for production, that's called movie magic. This is where you can. Yes, I remember. Yeah. And. And I was always saying, like, for communication, VFX, VP and new technology, especially for communication, there is no line in movie magic. And that's. And the minute we don't use. That's nothing against movie magic. It's more like about when the people who are using it only as the only source of truth for a project get over that. Use communication. Be kind to each other and especially talk to each other. Talk to each other frequently. Listen. And a lesson I just recently learned, again, listen and ask if you have understood the right thing from what the other person said. Oh, good. Yeah. Send a receiver principle. Lots of things can happen in between. Yes. Communication is 80% listening. Yeah. You know, especially when the other person is not talking. That's important. Then also, what's the body language saying? Yeah, non verbal. Excellent. Well, thank you for being here and I hope you have a rest of your time in LA well spent. When are you flying up? Tomorrow, unfortunately. Already, so. But I mean, it's good that it's raining now, so I'm happy for you guys that you have the rain, but it's clear, kind of. I'm freezing, so I can be back in Germany, they were also freezing. But I will come back soon. Excellent. Yeah, you come back soon and then you do another episode with me. Absolutely. Happy to. Thank you for having me. You're welcome. Really appreciate it. Bye, everybody. Bye.