How AI Transformed My Job Hunt: Addy's Job Search Story

Addy opens up about navigating unemployment after being laid off. In this episode, Addy shares how he leveraged AI tools like ChatGPT for interview prep, research, and ultimately landing a new role.

#############

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are the personal views of the hosts and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of their respective employers or organizations. This show is independently produced by VP Land without the use of any outside company resources, confidential information, or affiliations.

Transcript

0:00

You're gonna do bunch of interviews, most of them are gonna go wrong either because of you or because of them. You're gonna send hundreds of resumes up there, you're not gonna hear back from everybody. Your network will ghost you and all of those things came true. Alright, welcome everyone to Denoised. Uh, we're gonna do a little bit of a different format episode. Today, we're gonna talk about something that I think for better or worse, a lot of people are dealing with, job hunting or job uncertainty. Unemployment. Unemployment, transitions in jobs. Yep. And how to use AI tools and other tools out there to navigate that with firsthand experience. Mm-hmm. Uh, with you, Addy, who just went through this process. We mentioned a few episodes ago that you're now at Stability AI. Yeah. But yeah, you went through a whole ordeal of Yeah. Interviews and prep and leaning on ChatGPT a lot. So yeah, let's break, break down. I, I just gotta say man, uh, really happy to have had you next to me that entire thank you time. I mean, since we started doing the podcast in January, which is around the time I got laid off till, you know, a few weeks ago when I got the job. You have been there. To watch the ups and downs. Uh, yeah. And I'll check to be like, I, how the interview go. How go off camera. I think I'm good. Yeah. Not so good. Yeah. So where, where do you wanna start with this? Like, I'll start with sort of the, the high level, what happened to me and then, uh, how I navigated through it. And then we'll get down into maybe some of the details. And look, I want this to be a takeaway for, uh, those of us listening out there who's still looking for work. And you know, in our industry that's unfortunately more true than not. There's a lot of people that are looking for work. Mm-hmm. If we can even help you by 1%, 2%, I, I think that's a win for us. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. If it just gives you an idea or something to Yeah. Look for Exactly. Or another. Idea of how to use ChatGPT or Claude, or any of these AI models. And I, yeah, AI definitely helped me TA ton. And I'm not talking about, you know, spit out this resume. No, it, it's, it's much more finances than that and I'll get into it. Yeah. So, uh, in a very high level, I. I was laid off from Disguise. Mm-hmm. And that happened in January, not because of performance, you know, I, as you know, I was, I was a big part of that company and, um, the leadership, I still love them. They still love me. It was just a very crude business decision that just needed to be made. Mm-hmm. The company needed to shift direction because they have private equity and they have investors and they need to show growth. Unfortunately that growth was not coming from the side of the company I was managing. Mm-hmm. Which was our industry, film and television. Yeah. But yeah, not a good indicator, but not a surprise there. Right. Yeah. So right after the strikes in 23, we thought we would see somewhat of a recovery. In 24, that recovery kind of came lukewarm, and then in 25 it really didn't show. Right. So, uh, I think the leadership, I gotta say. Did the right thing, even though I was part of the decision. Yeah, it shitty tough calls. Yeah. Yeah. They, they pivoted to what, you know, another new segment, uh, immersive and big location installs stuff like the sphere, which is mm-hmm. I think where a lot of the growth is happening and a lot of people from our industry are transitioning to. So, uh, right then and there, you know, I have this, uh, virtual production expertise. There's a handful of people around the world that have sort of the level of. Knowledge and education that I've had. I very fortunate, mm-hmm. To kind of work my way up to it over the last 15 years or so to be at that level. But then I also realized like. You're still at the mercy of the film and TV industry, no matter how much of an expert you are. Yeah. It's one industry and there's no diversity. Yeah. There. Or if the entire industry is not doing well, what are you gonna do? Even though you are really good at your job. And I think that's where a lot of our listeners find themselves as. Like, I'm an amazing new compositor. Mm-hmm. I know it. I've done this Marvel movie, I've done this Star Wars movie. I can build things in Nuke for VFX, but if there is no movie to work on, right. What do I do then? Yeah. As using Nuke and needs this level of, of VFX work. Yeah. So, uh, right then and there, um, I, I immediately pivoted into freelancing and doing contract work, uh mm-hmm. Which I found actually relative success in. And it's, it's, uh, it's sort of a misnomer because you would think that like, that stuff is not lucrative. It absolutely can be. And I found that I was making the same amount of money, but working half the amount. So just for 10, 15 hours a week, I guess that's less than half. I was pretty much making the same amount of money. Yeah. And I aligned. It could be like that. Yeah. There's less, there's no less stability and no benefits. No benefits. And also the pipeline is unclear, right? Mm-hmm. Like, uh, I, I had my pipeline for February, March, April, but I wasn't sure about May, June. Mm-hmm. Right. Uh, and during those three months, I was, uh, juggling three or four different consultation jobs and looking for work, which was in itself a full-time job, as you know. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll get into that, and then on a personal note. It felt like both the best of times and the worst of times. And I say that poetically 'cause it really was, where's that quote from? Wasn't that Charles Dickens move film? We can go with that. Yeah. I know it was from a classic book. I, yeah. Do not remember the specific book. So Dickens sounds like, yeah, right. Sounds, sounds accurate enough. Best of times meaning like. I really got clarity on my life. You know, I, I'm not a young chicken anymore. I have kids, I, you know, I have mortgages and so on. So like, I got a clarity on what's important and over the last three years I was traveling a lot as, you know, just kind of lost track of all of that. And, you know, I was not paying much attention to my health. Uh, was not spending much time with my kids, uh, was not eating well. I was maybe drinking a little bit too much. Mm-hmm. And got a chance to. Really hit a reset button on all of the above, you know? And that's good for, yeah, seeing the positives of like, well, at least you can have a reset and. Yeah, it does- the travel and bouncing around. Yeah. Even to restaurants and Yeah. It, it, it can, and you have a sales target on your head and you're constantly worried about that. That can take it full. Yeah. Um, I mean, you and I used to run into conferences all the time. Yes. So, uh, I think even, look, if you're out there, you're looking for, just remember there is a huge silver lining in all of this, is that you have the power to reset your life and pick a new direction and choose the things you wanna do and the things that you don't want to do. The worst of times is that it's ultimately not about working hard and pushing your way through sheer brute force. It's really a survival game. So the pipeline for contracts can dry up. I could not have anything to work on for six months. Mm-hmm. Financially, what am I gonna do? How am I gonna pay the bills? The other thing, uh, you know, work gave me was a sense of fulfillment and a sense of purpose and all those things that. I think your brain kind of needs at this stage in your life to kind of Yeah. Function correctly. Purpose and impact. Yeah. Yeah. And then also, you know, you miss the social circle and, and I, I don't just mean my coworkers, but the entire industry, when you're, when you're just sucked out of it, all of a sudden you feel like you're in isolation and that stuff is not good. So again, best of times, worst of times. Yeah. So, um, my jobs. Initially, I thought the first couple of months doing so well with freelancing is that I could just do this forever. And I know people in our industry, I think you and I both know them, that just do freelancing. They do really well for themselves. And I have, I mean, yeah, the bulk of people I know are freelancers. I mean, yeah, pretty much anyone on set is, for the most part, is a freelancer. Yeah. It's gig to gig to gig. Physical production is mostly freelance, right? Yeah, yeah. Uh, I mean, I think even like Greig Fraser or somebody at that level is basically a freelancer. Yeah. You work on a project, it's a contract for the project. Technically you're a W2 employee for that film, but it's a gig. Yeah. It's a gig. It has an end date. I think corporate folks can't make that transition over Yeah. To freelance and vice versa. Yeah, it's, it, it's tougher. Yeah. When you have that biweekly paycheck coming in every two weeks. Yeah. To switch to a, a more uncertain, a less certain, for sure. Lifestyle, I think financially as well. Uh, and also just how your operating system in your brain works. Mm-hmm. Like I, I can, you can put me into any office corporate environment and I'll figure out the org chart. I'll figure out mm-hmm. How to get shit done right within. Worked at Verizon, worked at NBC Universal, like big companies with, you know, HR departments and marketing departments and so on. And, you know, you go to, in the freelance world, it's like, wait, there is no department. There isn't. It is just you, it's you figure that shit out and uh, go make your money, right? So I think the, so we we're just inherently two different. Buckets. And that's okay. That, and things still get done in each of those buckets. So I think I remember telling you this like, Hey Joey, um, I think I'm gonna file for like a freelance business license, you know, S Corp or whatever. Mm-hmm. And as I was doing the paperwork, I was like, I don't think I want this. Mm. Okay. I think I want a job. And not because it's easy jobs are, you know, especially at, you know, VP level and highest senior level. It's hard. It's a lot of toll. But I decided I want a job, one because I think I want to be part of the next wave of innovation, and I don't think it's gonna come from the freelance world. I. And also I wanna be able to do this podcast. I wanna stay in la, which was a big thing. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah. Right. Yeah. Uh, I've seen, uh, a really good friend of mine move out to North Carolina mm-hmm. And not come back. Um, switch industries. Switch industries. I've had offers out of state, you know, and. Th with LA sort of kind of dying out in our industry, I thought like, I gotta do everything to make sure I stay here. This is where I was born, raised my kids. Born, raised. Mm-hmm. If there's a fire here, earthquake here, we're gonna stay here through and through. You know? So those were my big decision factors, and that's what I went with. Now that I've figured out, okay, I need to get a full-time job, what positions? Yeah. So there is no such thing as virtual production positions anymore. Like at least not for a while. Mm-hmm. As you will probably see, uh, that's, that's, that is a, uh, staff salary position. Staff salary at a big studio. That's not a gig of like a VP supervisor on it. Those production I've got. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I could do those all day long, but Yeah. Uh, let's say NBCUniversal needs a VP supervisor for their stage. Well, they already have one. Mm-hmm. They're not building more stages. If you go to N or Synapse or you know, Pixo, they're staffed. Yeah, they're good. Yeah. They're not expanding anytime soon. There's only a finite number of stages. Yeah. So the thing that I'm good at doesn't have the positions that I want, so that's my number one problem. Okay. So then I have a mentor who kind of coached me through it and, uh, thank God there are people like my mentor, big shout out to Kevin. He's like, well, your skills actually apply because you've done technical management. You understand, you know, the creative technical trade offs. You'd be really good at product management. Mm-hmm. So why don't you look for product management roles? Okay. All right. Um, there are tons of product management roles, especially in big tech. A lot of startups, you know, a 16 z startups and private equity backed startups are looking for PMs, senior PMs, and then, uh, technical program managers is another one. And, um, some of those positions were up north and I was like, oh man. Okay. I guess. So that was the direction I went in and I gotta say what I heard. As I was getting let go was like, you know, you're gonna do mu bunch of interviews, most of them are gonna go wrong either because of you or because of them. You're gonna send hundreds of resumes up there, you're not gonna hear back from everybody. Your network, mo ghost, you. And all of those things came true. Like it was really that. Um, and I, I think our v viewers out there will totally agree. Like if you look at it with the wrong lens, it could be pretty bleak. And it could be, it could get you down into a really dark place because people, you know, they really don't have the position to help you. Like they can't get you the job. The best they can do is they could steer you to a recruiter, which is enormous help. But yeah, that's not gonna close the deal. Yeah. Did you ever think of using a recruiter like. Hiring one from your, like a headhunter. Yeah. Head. Yeah. Yeah. I, that was like the, the last thing I was gonna turn on Unfor. Fortunately I didn't have to go there. The whole like, you know, like, I don't know if you saw the Workday lawsuit, Workday being like the resume management system for a lot of companies. They recently got sued because there was, their AI had built in biases. So it was naturally rejecting a lot of resumes and, um, I gotta say 90% of the companies I applied at had Workday as the resume interface. Do you think your name was getting flagged or, I don't know if it was DEI. Maybe they were looking for certain keywords in the resume that I didn't have, and it was very binary. So instead of giving one a pass, it just. You know, kind of mm-hmm. Threw it into the trash bin. And I, you know, you're looking at, for a given position because, uh, our industry is in a downturn, right? So there's oversupply. So for every one job there's probably couple hundred applicants, and there's probably a thousand resumes of people that don't qualify. And then maybe. 50 or 60 that aren't qualified, and then out of that you gotta pick the right one. So for a workday system or even a recruiter, that's a lot of stuff to go through and they're hiring for 10, 15 positions, so they're probably funneling through hundreds of resumes a day. Yeah. I feel like from that end, you're looking for like any reason to, right. Bye-bye to be. No. Yeah. Like, uh, yeah. It's like please just gimme a reason to like Yeah. Put you in the no pile.'cause like I got so many to go through and my resume is really easy to say bye-bye to 'cause you look at my experience, which is so niche, right? You're like LED volume. What is that like for most people they're, they have no idea. I mean, we saw the joke in the studio, right? Oh yeah. That the weird, the mid, the weird volume. Yeah. Mandalorian, that's me. Yeah, so that's my whole career and so I I I definitely got a lot of, you know, automated responses back, so I, and these were just sort of for project manager roles, like in all sorts of tech industries of the Yeah, yeah. So I applied at big tech companies like, you know, you name it, Google, Apple, Meta, Nvidia, Adobe, all of all of the above fan companies as they're called, or the magnificent seven. And, uh, yeah, I, I. Think so. I did get a couple of interviews, not because of the resumes, but because through second degree connection. I got introductions. Yeah. Just enough to get the recruitment process going. Your network comment reminded me of, um, I forgot which book. It was one of the Malcolm Gladwell books from a while ago, but it was like the power of weak ties. Because it was like of like how jobs and connections come through the weak ties.'cause it's like if you're, you're I Media network, you kind of know the same people. You know the same stuff. Yeah. So like not that much is gonna emerge out of it that you don't already know. Yeah. But it's these friend of a friend kind of weak referral things. Yeah. That. Is where the opportunities can come up. It's like, I don't really know you, but oh, this thing kind of did come up and, you know, maybe you'd be a fit for it. Yeah. And uh, I gotta say like, uh, as far as how, you know, your connections and networks respond to your recent news, that was surprising. Some people just really didn't give a shit. Maybe because there, there were inundated by other people's requests. Mm-hmm. But then I, some people that I haven't talked to in months. Just kind of reach out like, Hey, do you need help? Uh, are you okay? I was like, oh, that's so nice. Uh, and um, you know, even at some, some of the bigger companies, um, I have friends that work at Amazon and Netflix and stuff like that. Disney look, they, they probably get, I. Tens, if not hundreds, of, you know, can you introduce me to blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Requests, even at that level, the friends that I had there were nice enough to actually make the introduction, which was so cool. Cool. That's nice. Yeah. Yeah. So that's all you can, I think ask for the rest is really up to you. They can only show you the door. Mm-hmm. If you gotta walk through it and. I'll give you two examples of when the company messed up versus when I dropped the ball and I messed up. Yeah, so the first one where the company messed up, and this is like as heartless and terrible as it gets, is I'm not gonna name the company, but it's a big tech company up north and they're based in San Jose. That's all I gotta say. The position was incredibly lucrative. You're looking at, uh, half a million dollars or more in salary is a very high level. It's so high level that, uh, they recruiters have something called executive recruiters. It's like another, it's like boss level recruiters. Uh, okay. Like a, a, a special recruiter just for like these types of roles for like, you know, VPs and so on. Mm-hmm. So. An executive recruiter, uh, I got introduced to an executive recruiter. I emailed her. I didn't hear anything back for a week. I was like, okay, it's fine. And then her assistant recruiter emailed me and said, we're really interested to talk to you. Okay, great. I. I responded right away. Of course, these are very timely thing, and I didn't hear back anything. First week I kept responding. Two weeks goes by, three weeks goes by, four weeks goes by. I'm like, okay, forget it. And then all of a sudden the main recruiter, the boss level recruiter, she emails me and says, Hey, we are so sorry. Your email got lost. Can we talk right now? I'm driving. Can we talk tomorrow? Yeah, sure. Okay. So I'm like, oh my God. So, okay. And then I do a lot of research on this company, and that's where ChatGPT comes in. Yeah. You need to know who the executive team is. You need to know their market cap. You need to know what. Their mission statement is, how are you using ChatGPT as like a deep research kind of tool or a just straight up vanilla ChatGPT Uhhuh. And what I do is I have like something like a Google doc I'll create for every position and I'll just start throwing stuff into that Google Doc and condense it so it all fits in one page. Mm-hmm. Okay. So I could print out just a single page and have a study guide cheat sheet ChatGPT PT was crucial for that. So this boss level recruiter comes on the call, the video call, and I'm like, okay. Dear, let's go add, and she's like, Hey Eddie, thanks for joining the call. Listen, I didn't wanna email you and tell you this, but we just made an offer to another candidate and we just wanted to tell you in person that, um, we're not gonna be going with you. I. And I didn't wanna do it over email, so I thought this was a better way to do it. I was like, this is absolutely the worst way to do it. Just tell me. Yeah. It's like you gave me the false hope, but dude, I was wearing a blazer for that interview 'cause it was an exec level. Things, it's just like getting dumped at bar. So that, that's an example of how they mess up the process. They'd simply drop the ball on responding to me on time and some other other candidate went through the entire thing in four weeks. Yeah. Was it like you fell through the cracks or did your email go to spam or did they They, like I said, they prob they, because they get hundreds of resumes a week, it's just impossible for them to just like surface a few of them. And you feel like without one, you should have checked back in. I did. Oh, you did check. You were following up. I have the whole email trail like every few days I was pinging. Okay. Okay. I have a background in sales. Yeah, the seven sales touchpoints. Yeah. I was not about to let this one go. So yeah, that was, that was an example of them fumbling it. Okay. Now I. I'm not without blame. I'll give you an example of when I fumbled it. There was an interview with a very big company that's in the world of games, let's say, and this was also a really high level position. I. Salary was also in the, this thing, you're making few thousand dollars on a contract gig and these salaries are like half a million to, you know, three quarter million. You're like, your payroll check is gonna be the contract gig check. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And you're like, how can I not take this seriously? How can I not be emotional about this? Mm-hmm. Because this is literally night and day. So, um, I did really well with this company for the first three interviews. Um, and, uh, it was a recruiter, then hiring manager, then, uh, a technical expert, and then I was onto a second technical expert. This gaming company was a competitor to another company that I am deeply familiar with. And so when they grilled me on technical stuff, I kept referring to the competitor technology as my North Star. I was like, well, do you know rendering technology in? I was like, well, actually I know about rendering because I used it on competitor technology. And, uh, the interview ended a few minutes early and this is the thing that he said at the last sentence. Well. It was really good to know you, and either way, let's keep in touch either way. Mm-hmm. When they say that, that means it's a no, like right then and there, and that was like the second time I heard it, so it really stuck out. I was like, God, I messed up. I messed up. Because no matter what capability and knowledge you have, you're still wearing a jersey at that company. And those companies, the people that have been there for years and years have developed a culture and cultivated a US versus them mentality. So even if your knowledge stacks up against the competitor, you're still an expert in the competitor stuff and not in their stuff. And that's a no. They don't want somebody to come in and rock the boat. They don't want somebody to disrupt. What their culture is. Right. They already know the answers. They just want you to repeat it. It should have just come from either, just don't mention anything because you can come in fresh and they can shape you. Yeah. Versus mentioning the competitor products. Yeah. I mean, a very, very crude example, if you are interviewing a Coca-Cola. You can't say like, well, at Pepsi I did this and at Pepsi I did that at Pepsi. Like, they're like, okay, go back to Pepsi then. Right, right. Or it's like, we don't wanna like untrain, you don want a Pepsi guy untrain you of bad ha quote bad habits. That's it. Yeah. So that was my mistake 'cause I didn't know that that could actually be a thing.'cause I'm, I'm thinking rationally I'm like. Look, these skills are one-to-one no matter where I work. Right. Look, I'm very familiar with the competitor product. Like I gotta leg up to help your product too, right? They don't want that. Yeah. Okay. So messed that one up. And then, uh, lastly, one of the one, so I had a, altogether, I think like seven interview tracks and each of the tracks are on average seven or eight interviews in. Yeah. So you're looking at about, I went through 50 interviews in three months. Yeah, that's a, that's a big And a lot of interviews. Yeah. And I, and you were there, you know, I was like, Hey, Joey, we're gonna tape half an hour later today. I. You're right. Yeah. I got an interview. Yeah. And you come in like, how'd it go? I was like, I think it went well. And it always, the, the be, you know, maybe it's just me misreading other than that one, uh, most of the time it reads really like positive. Yeah. Because the people on the other end are nice too. Right. They're not being vin, they're not trying to not hire you. Yeah. I'm sure for them too. It's like, yeah, they wanna like. Please. We wanna find a good quality candidate that fits this role. Like, yeah. And they're professionals. They're going through their day. They're not gonna be a jerk to you if they don't like you. Yeah. They're still gonna be nice to you. Was every single interview remote or did you have any in-person interviews? Yes. One, just one outta the 15. Yeah. Yeah. And it was a, it was a big office here in LA and yeah. I, okay, so they, in-person interview, I interviewed with the boss went great. He ran the place, he's like. Great. Love you. Somebody like you would be perfect here. Then I interview with his right hand person and I tell her about my background in motion capture and she says something to the effect of, oh, I hate motion capture. And I knew right then and there I was like, ah, fuck. Like, yeah, these, as opposed to what these nat what was as opposed to animation. Uh, okay. Yeah. Appear like, so these natural biases that the interviewers had, had they not tilted in your favor, you would not get it. Like these are things that are beyond your control. It's like a bias too, which just like, I want something that's, you know, kind of like me. Like, and it goes back to what I'm saying, they already know the answers. They just want you to repeat it to them. So if I completely bullshit it and said something like, yeah, I hate motion capture and I love animation, even though I've spent a decade in motion capture that that's what they would want to hear. I. So, uh, again, it's, it's 50 50 you and 50 50 them. And the other thing I learned, I had a really nice headhunter from Andreessen Horowitz. Mm-hmm. You know, the big, uh, she was really nice to gimme like 30 minutes of her time. And, you know, it was, she wasn't hiring. It was just more me just talking to a recruiter. And just finding out what their feedback thought process is. And I was like, I asked her, I was like, what is the hardest part for you to like match people with companies? And she said, it's just, it's timing. And she's right. Look, we're, we're only gonna be unemployed for so long. Like if you're out there, you don't have a job, trust me, it'll come. It's only a window that you are in this. And the dream job is only open for a window. Yeah, right. It's open from May till March. Yeah. Because there's also like your timing of your unemployment versus the timing of the role that's open. Yeah. And hoping that, you know, the two align. Exactly. And that's the hardest part is alignment on the timing windows, which was such key insight and um, I really appreciated her. Yeah. Going back to the stability, uh, offer and yeah, I went through I think about eight or nine interviews and, um, how did that. Role come up? Was that like open application or was that like a friend of a friend, friend of network in the network? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Uh, in, in this day and age, I'll say this. If you're throwing resumes out there, just stop, don't even bother. Yeah. Figure out weak connections. Figure out second degree, third degree connections, and mm-hmm. Roll your dice that way. Yeah. I'll say. From what I can offer in this.'cause I have a weirdo and usually do gig or like my own stuff and I've not been on the job hunt that much, but I've been on the other end of like hiring, usually just, you know, either crew or, um, sometimes part-time roles. But I have like very, a few times dabbled with posting stuff on Indeed and you know, from the receiving end. Because it's so easy to apply to jobs, uh, you know, with, you know, click the, the button. There's just a pile of junk, of applica. You know, people have absolutely nothing to do with the role that I'm posting for. Yeah. They're like, I worked at a warehouse in Walmart. Right. Yeah. Can I do video editing? Yeah. And so there is a huge noise. Yeah. Uh, problem on the receiving end, and that's what Workday and those systems are supposed to solve is filtering. Yeah. But they over filter, right? Yeah. They can over filter, right? Or Yeah, just, yeah. Feed out bad stuff. Um, I'll also say, I mean, this is me too, like I try to, I know everyone hates, um, cover letters. I try to put requests in for. Indicators and my request for cover letters, honestly, I look at the cover letters more than the resume, just because the, the resume that can kind of put whatever you want on there. Mm-hmm. Like, doesn't really tell you much. Like, I'll try to put some questions in, in the cover letter to asking also a, just make sure you read the thing. Yeah. And, uh, b just also like, get a little bit more of you or your personality or just like something I, I'll post stuff like, you know, what's your favorite YouTube channel? Yeah. Just general easy questions, but like. To help filter out if you Reddit, and also like, you know, are you into this stuff? For sure. Yeah, I agree with you. I, yeah, I, I've done a lot of hiring at my previous roles. Uh, I've hired at least 15, 20 people in my career and, um, I always, I. Prioritize soft skills and the ability to learn. Yeah. Over subject matter expertise. For sure. Right.'cause a lot of things too, it's like, I don't care that much. If you're an expert ish, if you're willing to learn and if you, you know, it feels like there's a, you know, yeah. A good vibe and you're open to, you know, figuring stuff out. Yeah. Like, can you figure your stuff out? Like, cool, that's more important than for sure. Your skillset. And I, I, I think because we're in an economic downturn, the hiring process has gotten more conservative and I think there's less of that. Mm-hmm. Where they're looking for somebody to come in and fill the role. Now because we're in an oversupply state, they're like, it's just easier to just find the exact person that does this exact thing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So they roll the dice on that and that, that, that was my general observation with the industry. Now look, I, I am super happy I. That I am in an industry that is growing, not shrinking. Right. The AI industry is literally in the first few years now, you interviewed so many startup companies at AI on the Lot. Mm-hmm. Luma AI and so on. We're seeing, you know, Asteria here in this town. Obviously stability here is in this town as well, but we're seeing the complete opposite with Hollywood. Right? Like Warner Brothers is now thinking about breaking the companies up into two. Right. There was a big layoff at Disney that was not announced. And um, yeah, so the best of times, worst of times thing, one of the things that was Frame.io the best was I actually got to pivot. Mm-hmm. I actually got to get out of virtual production for a bit and go into ai and that was something that, it was fully self-directed. I had agency over, you saw me go from like a complete AI new. When we first started to do the podcast to like running comfy UI on my own downloading models on this very same machine. Yeah. I mean, you, you were doing that before stability. You were like, yeah. In your time off, you're like, well, let me figure out this stability. I mean, let me figure out comfy and, and, and figure out, you know, what this stuff does. Yeah. So I, yeah, that's like, uh, you know, just a word of advice. Like you have the ability to learn new things at whatever age and mm-hmm. Uh, most of you have a nice computer at home and a monitor and ChatGPT and. And the window to the world. Yeah. I think if you adapt the mindset of, you know, open-minded and trying to figure out and get a handle on what's happening and being able to roll it into your skillset. Yeah. I mean, if you can be the person who like, yes, I'm an editor. Yes, I am a project manager, but I'm also leaning on. Using AI tools to, you know, be more productive and level up my skillset. I think that makes you more valuable to a company For sure. It differentiates you. Mm-hmm. And it's not like the thing that you're an expert in will go away. Like, I can in a couple years, if I want to go back to virtual production, I probably can. Mm-hmm. Like I, I. The technology wouldn't have shifted that far. But the benefit is, I'll go back with AI expertise, right? Yeah. It's like now you can go back to virtual production, but know how to build AI into the pipeline and build models. Yeah. Yeah. So those were my big takeaways. Where did you start, or how did you use ChatGPT? Yeah. Aside from the research, what else did you use it? So, interview, prep. So if you are having an interview ahead and you think that you're just gonna. Nail it as is. You're not Guarantee you that's not gonna go well. Interview preps. Uh, so interviews are broken down into probably three categories, at least. Frame.io being in the technical field. I think in the creative field it's a little bit different. Mm-hmm. So there'll be a behavioral round. Okay. So they're gonna assess you as how you are built. Right. How you solve problems, how you interact with people, what you do when things get tough, what you do when things are ambiguous. Those are behavioral. Okay. That's how just your, in your DNA number two is. Technical. So it's how you approach a problem that you need to solve. So in engineering world, you know, do you break down a bigger problem into modular, smaller problems, and do you, how do you leverage Ateme? And then, uh, what's the difference between r and d and product and applied research and engineering and. Infrastructure, like all those departments exist more or less the same at different companies. How do you differentiate between them? And then the third one will be subject matter expertise or SME. So like, okay, you say that you're a virtual production expert, let's put it to the test. Mm-hmm. What is the DOT pitch of this product and what is moire and mm-hmm. Why is Unreal frustrum this way? And all these like mm-hmm. Subject matter expertise questions. So. You have to prep for each of those separately in its own way, and the recruiter's always gonna be very helpful. They're gonna be your best friend. They're giving you a cheat sheet, they're gonna tell you who's interviewing you, what their background is, and the types of questions that's gonna be coming your way. Okay. So for example, the behavior on let's say, oh, uh, this person is the head of hr, he's gonna be asking you about. Your previous, uh, leadership roles, uh, how you dealt with adversity, how you dealt with feedback. That's your prep right there. Like go to chat, GBT, plug those in mm-hmm. And see what kind of responses you get and see if you agree with those responses or not. Don't just let chat GBT. Oh, like dictate you give Tahi b you the questions and ask it to respond Yeah. To these interview questions. Yeah. And then kind of see what the response is. Yeah. It's like, ah, I like that response. Um, so then you write one line from that response, one line from this, and then you can start to have your own personality and your own characteristic on top of what. ChatGPT T's giving you, yeah. Yeah. I think it's a good, it's not like, oh, I'm just regurgitating what the AI says. I think it's more of a better, just like I blank out on stuff and I forget to mention things. Exactly. So it's just a good reminder. Why even start, right. Of like Yeah. Things to include in your responses. Yeah. To, you know, that. Just to jostle your memory or jostle, like, uh, things you should include Yeah. That you might forget or not think of for sure. It, it, it's just like a nudge, right? Yeah. And then, uh, one of the things ChatGPT PT gave me was like, this is well known in the recruitment world, is, uh, the star method. So there's frameworks on how you answer questions. Uh, so in behavioral questions, it's, uh, situation, task, action, and result. Okay. So if I ask you, Hey Joey, uh, when you had to fire somebody, how did you do it? Do you set it up? Well, here's the situation. Mm-hmm. This person was coming in late to work every day, and then here this person tasked, this person was assigned to this major project action. We had to get rid of this person because our company was losing millions of dollars a month result. We hired somebody better and we saved the project, right? Mm-hmm. So like there's frameworks for all this stuff and ChatGPT is really good at frameworking your response. Right? Okay. So you can type a bunch of stuff in and it'll just like completely regurgitate it, right? Gimme this response back in the Star with STAR method. Yeah. In, uh, product management circles, there is, um, different product management framework from different companies. Like Google manages a product a certain way. I think Facebook uses something called dim. DIMM. Mm-hmm. And then, so on. And then in the sales world, there is frameworks for how you, uh, navigate the sales journey. The most well known one is medic, M-E-D-I-C-C. Okay. Each letter stands for something. Yeah. But like, these are the things that, uh, LLM is really good at summarizing for you and giving it to you. Yeah. Yeah. I've used it for marketing. Writing and stuff, you know, marketing also has some frameworks. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, pain and, um, I can't, I can't think of one right now, but, uh, yeah. Frameworks. Yes. Yeah. And, and look, end of the day, like, um, like I said, I, I, you know, out of the 50 interviews, most of them I. Didn't work out right. I did get an offer from another company, but it was not a good offer. The takeaway is don't worry about it. You know what you're worth. You know what you could do, and the right opportunity will come to you. All you have to do is keep on improving your process, optimize your interview skills, tap into your network, and. If you do that enough, it's just a matter of time. Did you use any of the voice modes to role play interviews or get critique on your feedback on your responses? That's interesting. I did not do that. I probably should have. I. Okay. Yeah, I've been trying to dabble with that more. Even just in more like practicing, just generally interviewing. Obviously it's transcribing what you're saying, so it's not as useful for the, like my response right now of like, of handling stumbling or other things.'cause the transcript's gonna be a lot cleaner. Yeah. But yeah, I've been curious if, or looking for like other tools, even if they're third party, using the models that you know, actually listen to. Yeah. Your delivery and critique you. Or coach you on public speaking or, or interview responses? Yeah, that's a, I mean, I, I don't know if there's a product, there's at least you could do voice mode, um, which would also help you just practice talking, um, and have a mock interview with the voice mode on ChatGPT BT or, uh, perplexes is pretty good too. Okay. Yeah, so I'm, look, there's really no product that is in this space of, uh, ai. Interview coaching. Mm-hmm. Real time, interactive. I think you stumbled on something really. I, I wanna build it. Go ahead. Just let us know. A lot, a lot of people could use it. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. Uh, on the, I'm trying to think on the flip side, you know, if, if, uh, our listeners are freelancers and trying to stick with it, you know, I have a friend who's a professional editor and you know, he says he's always like, while he is on the current project, trying to, you know,'cause his projects have an end date. Yeah. And so he's like. Trying to book the next, the next project. Yeah. For when his ends, uh, you know, and sometimes they get extended, but you know, he will be like, well, you know, I already have, I'm booked out on another project. But he's working his network and, you know, meeting with people and trying to do lunches Yeah. And stuff. I, I gotta say all the time before he needs it. On the freelance side, what I learned was like, you can't be a generalist. You have to be a subject matter expert. Mm. To, to get your worth. One of the best advice that I got from, uh, a really successful freelancer was like. Look, if you're gonna do a gig charge well, and if they don't pay, you, don't do it. Simple as that. And that's how I was making the, especially if you are a subject matter matter expert, subject matter expert, matter expert, yeah. They're, they're gonna, they're gonna pay because it's still cheaper than hiring somebody full-time. Yeah. And for something specialized like that, there's only a handful of people who Right. Know the intricacies of, uh, running a virtual production wall. For sure. Yeah. And, and so I thought, okay, so the best way to. B, that is to just make noise and advertise what you're good at, rather than telling the world like now I can do modeling and rigging and shading and lighting, and also virtual production. Mm-hmm. Instead of that, just say, Hey, in case you forgot. I have done virtual production practically for the last 10 years, and I've been to and ran with and educated, uh, stages all around the world. So hit me up if you're ready. Yeah. You know, and, and just leave it out there. The people that value you will reach out to you. I think that's, that's the part that's just too many generalists now. And so find your lane and be really good at it. Yeah, that's my advice. I was thinking too, I haven't built it yet, but for sourcing or filtering, if you're on the job hunt through job postings, especially gig postings, uh, like on staff, me up or on Mandy or Facebook, maybe not Facebook posts, but anyway, any of the tools that send out daily digests Yeah. Of posts. There are a handful of tools. There's one that I've been using more and more relay, and it's sort of like a Zapier. But with more AI tools built in mm-hmm. Has better integration with your email. And so you could basically set it up so like you could automatically tag all of those digest emails. Mm-hmm. And then it'll go to a relay trigger and the AI can kind of read the emails and you could give it a prompt to be like, you know, filter it just for virtual production task or something that's like a bit more specific to you so it can filter out more relevant. Posts and then you could probably even set up to like research the company or the person that posted it. Yeah. But I think there's some tools there to help automate the process. To just help source better opportunities for you. Yeah, for sure. Using AI tools. Um, one of the things that I did and I highly recommend is paying for LinkedIn premium. Yeah. Uh, it unlocks. So first of all, I think it does something to your algorithm where you show up in other people's feed more. Mm-hmm. Also, the job search tools are way better. And then you could send InMails, which are like. Yeah, those are super valuable. Um, that's good. A couple of those I did get replies back. Oh, okay. Cool. Yeah, the emails are good 'cause it's basically you can email whoever you want and, uh, without being their friend. Right. You don't have to be connection. Yeah. And LinkedIn will send them a few email, like reminders. Yeah. Like. Hey, you got this in mail Yeah. Three days ago. Yeah. So please reply. It, it, it's good to get, um, and they definitely read it. Yeah, they'll definitely see it. So it's good to get on there. So it's so annoying that they're gonna read it. Yeah. I got some random mess in mills, but Yeah, same. They, yeah. The, the, the premium is, is worth the money for what they offer. For sure. I, I totally got this job because of LinkedIn and I even put that on my LinkedIn profile, that LinkedIn helped me get this job because first I saw the opening on LinkedIn and all of the, uh. Networking that I did happened on LinkedIn. Mm-hmm. If it wasn't for LinkedIn, I would not be where I am today. Um, it's not the same for everybody, obviously. And there's other platforms like Indeed and Lenza and all these other, but I would say that at the very minimum turn on your, uh, filters on job alerts, uhhuh. So at least you're getting an inbox full of jobs every day or every week because. They're very time sensitive. When a job position hits LinkedIn, within the first couple of hours, you're gonna have like 40, 50 applicants. Within three hours, it's gonna say over a hundred. When it gets to that, you're probably already too late. Yeah. So it's less than 24 hours that you have to respond correctly. One of the interview tracks was with Meta, um, okay. And, uh, yeah, that's the one I, they were really nice to me. The whole recruitment process was amazing. I got to. I think past the second round and I didn't get it, but I was thankful that I went through it. Mm-hmm. And I learned a lot. And the hiring manager was a really nice guy. I, at least I got to network with him, meet him, learn about the team there. But, um, that position I remember I. Immediately seeing it on LinkedIn, like just posted 30 minutes ago, and I clicked apply and I got an email the same day from the recruiter. Okay. That's how fast it happened. Yeah, so out of the hundreds of applications that I made, that was the one I. I think that was like immediate. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Which is pretty cool. That's cool. And yeah. And uh, also I'm guessing you had your LinkedIn profile all cleaned up and up to date. Yes. And so yeah, if you're going LinkedIn route, make sure you're, yeah, everything's tidied up and looks nice. Profile. Yeah. And, um, the other profile picture, the, uh, the other thing I'll say is like, have your resume. Uh, this is huge, uh, because your resume is going through Workday. Mm. Uh, don't do, uh, multiple columns. Don't do fancy fonts, keep it standard, nothing fancy. Keep it times new Romans size 12 font, no spacing, extra spacing anywhere because, uh, a word parser is gonna go through your, uh, resume. And I, I think if it un doesn't understand the format, it just dumps it. Yeah, makes sense. So, I mean, I feel like that's definitely a Yeah. Time to not get fancy. Yeah. So like, have one version that's like aesthetically pleasing mm-hmm. And really nicely designed for. Somebody hand like a PDF and then have the Doc X file to just put through, you know, your resume management system. Yeah. Any, anything else that came up or? No, I, you know, I, I don't think, uh, you know, this won't be my last job. Right. So I. Like we are in an industry where every few years we have to kind of reinvent ourself and keep, at least because you and I are both in the emerging technology space, like that just comes with the territory. So I'm sure I'll be spinning up this entire process again in a few years. Who knows when I'm really happy with where I am and uh, just like this is a never ending process to improve yourself and learn from it. And again. You have total agency and autonomy to do the thing that you wanna do. It's just determination, hard work away from where you wanna get to. Good note to end it on. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for sharing and uh, yeah, if anyone else has any tips or tools on how you used Chacha, bt, or any of the other AI tools for the job hunt. Interviewing any part of that process? Uh, yeah, feel free to leave a comment, uh, and let us know.'cause yeah, we're always learning and sharing. Absolutely. We want to help the community through these tough times. And also thank you to everybody who was there. Even just like a hello, how you doing? A message, a text message, a LinkedIn message, whatever. It means so much to that person who is going through this time. So if you're out there, you know a friend that is impacted. Reach out to them. It's not too late. Cool. All right, well thanks everyone. Thank you. In the next episode.