Inioluwa Olasebikan

Inioluwa Olasebikan is an incredible young Nigeria woman who now calls Belfast home.  At 18 years old Ini has overcome many challenges to become an impassioned advocate for ethnic minority communities on integration and education rights for young people seeking asylum.  In this conversation she speaks candidly about what it’s like to arrive here as a young person and to notice how our two community lens can prevail.  Ini has felt both 'othered' and welcomed in Belfast.  She’s got a brilliant voice and her challenge around how we reimagine peace deserves to be heard far and wide!

Transcript

0:00:12 - Speaker 1

You're listening to Peace by Peace. I'm Jude Hill-Mitchell. 

0:00:15 - Speaker 2

I'm Sara-Louise Martin, and together we want to create a space for curious conversations about post-conflict challenges and possibilities. 

0:00:23 - Speaker 1

We'll hear from those who press on with the hard graft of peace and find out what challenges they've recycled in their own backstories. 

0:00:30 - Speaker 2

We want to get as real as we can about the things that hold us back and share insights into how we can all play our part in the peace of this place. 

0:00:38 - Speaker 1

Heads up on the format. In each episode, one of us will be in conversation with a guest and then we'll both come back together at the end to get personal and chat our way through what's moved and sparked us. 

0:00:57 - Speaker 3

I just think about Senator Mitchell's speech when he was talking about passing the torch onto the young people. You know, we need to reinvent what peace looks like for Belfast, because as much as we've gone so far from what it was like 20, 30 years ago, but there are still divisions, there's still sectarianism, there's still violence. 

0:01:23 - Speaker 1

Our guest today is an incredible young woman originally from Nigeria who now very much calls Belfast home. At 18 years old, inyilwa Olashabakon has overcome many challenges to become an impassioned advocate for ethnic minority communities here, on integration and education rights for young people seeking asylum. In this conversation she speaks honestly about what it's like to arrive here as a young person and to start to notice how our two community lands can prevail. Ine has felt both othered and welcomed in Belfast. She's got a brilliant voice and deserves to be heard. 

0:02:02 - Speaker 3

So here's Ine, and then Sarah Louise and I will be back to reflect on what sparked us in this chat. Ine welcome to. 

0:02:15 - Speaker 1

Peace by Peace. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for making space for us, because it's been a big week. You finished up school for the year. You've a lot going on. 

0:02:20 - Speaker 3

So, thank you, no worries, I'm really glad to be here. Here I am today. I'm really excited. Let's do it. 

0:02:27 - Speaker 1

So, eni, tell us a little bit about yourself, and you mentioned just before we came on air there about the beautiful meaning behind your name. So if you just want to start with, that. 

0:02:36 - Speaker 3

So my name is Enioluwa Olaoshebikon and it's a Yoruba name because I come from the western part of Nigeria, which is in West Africa, so west west um, and my name means my first name means um, heritage of God. So it means that I am for God, I belong to God because my parents are very much Christian, so that's what they named me, and my last name is Ola. Oshibukon means wealth is not for one person, wealth does not belong in a certain place, it's for everyone. So I try to live by that. You know, in the sense that what I have, it's not for me alone, I want to share with others. 

0:03:17 - Speaker 1

Gorgeous, and I can see lots of that in your work. So we'll chat our way through that. Just to start us off, ine home, what does home mean to you? 

0:03:27 - Speaker 3

What does it feel like, or what does that bring up, even when I say the word home, when you say home, I think of my grandma, who is in Nigeria right now and anytime I feel homesick, I just mean I miss my grandma because we grew up, she basically raised us, you know, um, all my childhood was spent with her. So when we moved it was kind of that sense of like I felt like I was missing something. You know, part of me was back home. So, and now when I think of home, I think of where I shine the most, where I'm comfortable. I think of the people around me, I think of the space I'm in. So in the sense, it's not a place that dictates homes to people around you, whether they make you feel like home. So that's my interpretation of it. 

0:04:20 - Speaker 1

And you arrived in Belfast at the age of just 17. Tell us what it was like to arrive here and, I suppose, some of the stuff you started to pick up or notice about life here and some of the maybe the post-conflict aspects of life, like what. What came up for you? What did you observe? 

0:04:51 - Speaker 3

first thing I observed in belfast was, um, the segregation was what I observed. I was had no information about the troubles before moving here. I never even imagined there would be such because I thought, you know it's. It was just a very calm, cool place with like 2 million people. I just thought it was going to be like a very small city. 

But moving here I noticed a lot of divisions between communities and it was kind of hard for me to imagine how I could fit into a society that is already divided and divisions that have spanned hundreds and hundreds of years. So I just focused on just meeting as many people as I could, learning about the history of Northern Ireland, learning about people's stories and sort of giving myself more context. So because I don't believe like ignorance is bliss, I believe the more informed you are, the better choices that you make. So I wanted to learn about the space that I've moved into because you know, like it or not, you know I've come to accept Belfast as my home for a very long time. So I wanted to learn about the community. So I started going out, I started volunteering, I started, you know, meeting people. 

Even when I was I had nothing, I didn't know if I was ever gonna go to school or like make it past you know, the stage I was in, but I just know that I had something to give to society, so I was very keen to learn about it. 

0:06:24 - Speaker 1

And that sense of division that you noticed and felt like. What for somebody, then, who has come on such a massive journey to even be here? What impact does that have on you as a young person, when you're trying to fit in in a new place, but you're also sensing the divisions around you? How does that make you feel then? 

0:06:42 - Speaker 3

Okay. So, as a young person coming here, like the first, I guess people or community you have access to would be your school community First of all, if you're a rule in the school, and I thought that would be the perfect opportunity to get to learn about the community that I lived in. But that wasn't the case for a very long time. So I sort of wanted to understand okay, where do I fit in? How do I integrate into a community like this? So I just, like I said, I went volunteering and I saw, you know, I got to learn a lot but I just I was learning but I wasn't't integrating, if you know what I mean, like I could understand. But you know, if the society is already different, from the moment you even step foot into Belfast, you're already othered, so it's Catholic, protestant or other, so you know from the get-go that you do not fit into the main category. So it sort of makes you feel like it makes you isolated in that sense, because you don't really understand. You know who are your people, who who would understand you. 

And there's also that cultural barrier as well because, um, even when I got here funny story like I went speaking to the taxi driver because we got into the airport the first at the first point and then we got into the car and he was speaking but I couldn't understand. Like we're both speaking English but for some reason I kept thinking, oh, I don't understand, so can you speak a bit slower? It's, it's not even a language barrier, it's just an accent barrier. So like it was very hard for me to understand people for a few months, like I would just nod at everything. It's so bad when I think about it, I would just nod to everything, but it's, it's a beautiful culture. So I was very keen and very open. So I would say I've definitely integrated, especially joining school. That that is like so, so integral. You like community spaces like that are very, very hard to find outside of, like organized, you know spaces, you know and you had a real battle to actually get a school place like you had to really dig deep for that. 

0:09:10 - Speaker 1

Talk us through that journey and what that gave you as well. 

0:09:13 - Speaker 3

So the journey was very long and dark and winding. I think in October when I got in, I just was very, very, um enthusiastic, because I was. I was so excited I've been hearing things about my cousins, from my cousins who were in school and the UK I was just so excited. But then when I started applying to schools, I got so, so many rejections. My mom actually counted how many rejection emails she got and it was over a hundred from schools in belfast, outside um, in northern ireland and in england. So it was very, very jarring because I just thought this is what I wanted. So bad. But now I don't think I'm gonna get it. 

So what's my plan b? I sort of ignored the prospects of school for a while, like I actually gave up on myself. I gave up on even the prospects because I would the things that were completely and totally out of my control. I would get school saying that they had no place. I was like what does that even mean? I reached out to the EA and I was like, oh, can you help me with my school place, basically? And they told me that how old are you? I was like I'm 17. Oh, you're not in our designation. We can't help you. 

Unfortunately and I heard unfortunately so many times I was just like maybe this is just my luck. You know, this is what I have to deal with now. And then some schools even said, oh, you're too old. And some people said, like your qualifications are not equivalent to GCSEs, and so so many barriers on the way, I just completely felt lost and so I just started like reaching out to organizations and you know, there were a lot of promises like, oh, don't worry, we'll speak, we'll, you know, get in touch, we'll get in touch, we'll get in touch. Nobody ever got in touch. So left the house on a random day in November and I just went to my youth group, where I work for now, and I just walked in and saying you know, I wanted to volunteer. My aunt was the one who spoke to me about the youth group because she volunteered there and I just felt like you know what, I'm gonna take that step so what did you say when you went in? 

so I just said, oh hi, good afternoon, my name is and I want to volunteer. Dead dead silence. They were like, who is this young girl, who's this? I was so shy, like I was, you could especially like being isolated and because my sister had got a school place, so she was 11 at the time, so it was like strained to p7 for her and I was sort of I would walk her to school and back from school every single day and I'll just think when is my moment, please? But she was young so she wasn't a trouble for her. So I just got in there and I was, I just asked if I could volunteer and they were like sure, fill out a form. And then I started coming like every Monday, wednesday, friday, saturday, like every day I could be there Possibly. I was there because nothing else outside of that. So I started doing that work with them and you know, meeting people and it sort of opened my eyes a bit more to the opportunities. You know meeting people and it sort of opened my eyes a bit more to the opportunities, you know, and it's. It was very nice like space to be in because I saw people who looked at me, who sounded like me. So it was. 

I was comforted by that sense, but in deep down I knew that, you know, I wanted more. I wanted to go higher places. You know, I wanted to get a school place basically. So I, um, they gave me the opportunity to start teaching, like coding and, you know, doing this podcast for them, um, and I just took every opportunity that came my way. Um, I even joined the, the belfast city youth council, in january. 

Um, and then, you know, along the line, my boss just started talking to me about, like you know, this is we're getting to another school year. This is september. You know, last year you were told you were too late, but now you can actually prepare for the next stage of admissions. So he sort of advised me on that. So I started emailing MLAs, like I called so so many MLAs, I, I'm pretty sure, like they blocked my number at some point. I just, I just was not willing to give up. 

So, you know, that fire was, you know, sparked inside of me, me. And then I got a chance to go to Stormont to speak about the lack of education opportunities for young BME people, and you know a lot of that. That day I felt so, so happy because I was like, finally I'm being listened to. But listening, being as politician, listening to you and acting on it are two, very two separate things. So I felt listened to but not necessarily that they were willing to do something about it, you know. So I just went out of there and I started, you know, continuing my search for a school place, continuing my search for a school place. And then one day I just received a call from my school and they said you know, come in, we would you know want to interview you, and that was the only. 

0:14:52 - Speaker 1

That was the only school that reached out like what did that mean then and in that moment, after that long fight? 

0:14:58 - Speaker 3

I called my mom honestly because she's been with me through every step of the process and I just remember screaming for like joy. I was so, so happy. Finally, like it was such a sense of relief I feel like all the way has been lifted off my shoulders because it was that pressure as well from like people around me, because I would speak to my friends back home and they would be like when are you gonna go to school? When are you gonna go to school? Like for Nigerians, going to school is a very big deal, like we value education a whole lot. So I would always get questions and I'm like I don't, I have no clue, I have no idea. 

So getting that place kind of took the burden off and it made me feel like I actually won. I won, you know, I did win and I was so proud of myself for continuing to push. I was so grateful as well to my support system. You know, because when you come into a space and they accept you for everything you are and they help you, they build you into someone even better. You know you can never forget things like that. You can never forget the people like that. So I was. I shared, when I shared the news with my co-workers. They were like. They all hugged me, were so happy, you know, because it felt like they're a win as well, because we're all in this. We're all in this. They were fighting for me and it just gave me more strength to keep fighting. 

0:16:28 - Speaker 1

Yeah, and it should just not be that much of a fight. And your story, sadly, is not completely unique. You mentioned other young people within BME communities here who face similar challenges like that. Tell us how you honed your own strength within that and your own voice, because you've really gone on to become. You mentioned Stormont. They're an advocate for other young people. What has really given you that strength, that confidence to keep on going, keep on speaking out, keep on fighting? 

0:17:04 - Speaker 3

Yeah um, my mom has been a huge support because you know, she brought me up with such like strong values and like sense of worth. She would always tell me, like don't let anyone dictate who you are. You know you can. You can do anything as long as you put your mind into it. She's the most hard-working person I know. Her work ethic is like beyond anything I've ever seen. Like I would get up, I would go to bed at like 10 pm and when I wake up my mom is still working. Like she's that focused and she's so willing to give everything to us to me and my sister so we could succeed and I just felt like I had to do something for her. So I needed to show her that you know she's not in this alone. You know she was right for believing in me. So I sort of built on that courage and the encouragement I also got from you know people around me and you know, my youth group and I just felt so emboldened to keep trying to keep going. 

And my voice was one thing I really found in this process because, I mentioned earlier, I was very like shy, I was very, you know, you know just a lot of self-doubt because, you know, after so many rejections you sort of start to think a lot of thoughts and you know, I wouldn't say that I was like, but I wouldn't say like I was. I wasn't diagnosed with depression or anything like that, but you know, my mental health definitely took a hit during that time. So it was just finding my voice, finding my strength through through like so many different experiences I would voice, finding my strength through through like so many different experiences I would. When I started applying for things and getting opportunities and saying yes and going forward, I was like, okay, so I could actually make a difference, you know, and that for me was the confidence I needed to keep going to schools, to keep saying you know, do you have a space for me and do you? I need a school place, can you help me? 

0:19:13 - Speaker 1

you know, yeah amazing, and you know I do advocate for other young people as well. What, um, I suppose, what are you speaking out on at the moment? What's on your heart for the other young people that you're working with, and diverse youth and and elsewhere? What are, what are the issues that really need that spotlight, um, from from storm's political leaders? 

0:19:35 - Speaker 3

so I would say, in terms of integration for young people, there's very little sort of I, like I mentioned earlier, I wasn't sure if, like, they were willing to help me or they were willing to take any action, because I didn't sort of there's no protocol, there was no framework for, you know, helping young people like who migrate to the UK to like the Northern Ireland to integrate sort of this survey inquiry, not survey that is going out to young people to fill out in terms of raising the school leaving age to 18, which I do feel is very, very it's a very good step in the right direction because that would ensure, you know, the responsibility is on the government to make sure that young people are getting the school place that they need, because when I, like, I regret turning 17 here before I moved, I was like that was I wish, I was wishing so hard that I was 16, because if I was 16 it would have been such a seamless process. So to think like when you just reach a certain age, you're just written off, it's it's a very, very weird space, very weird limbo. You know I would help other people, young people that were in my position as well, to apply. You know I would. You know, we all sort of like supported each other during that process because it was very harrowing. So education for me is still a very, very big issue, you know, because it's seen as a minority issue, like it's a minority people thing, so it's a majority issue. It's a huge, huge issue that needs to be addressed. 

You know, and in that sense as well, like mental health for young people, I know there's a lot of, a lot of good work that is being done for mental health, you know, but, like, if you're not in those communities where, like resources are being poured into, you wouldn't get access to support. I guess you know, apart from your GP and you know people around you that you could speak to, there isn't really I didn't find like any sort of resource that I could possibly like go to outside of, like youth groups or anything like that that would help me. You know, through that process Even I reached out to certain organizations I was referred to and they said oh, you know, just fill in this form and do this, do that, you know, we would help you, um, we would advocate for you, but then nothing ever came back. So that sort of told me that you know there's no person that can scream and shout and advocate for you louder than yourself. You need to be your own voice, and if you don't have a voice, the best thing to do would just to ask for help. Don't be afraid to ask for help. 

I asked for help so so many times. It's second nature to me, like I don't believe asking for help makes you inferior. It makes you. It makes you seem more self-aware, it makes you seem, you know, more mature, because you know that you're lacking something and you would need help. So when people would reach out to me about cause, a lot of people heard my story and they said you know me too. You know that happened to me as well, and I'm still struggling. I'm still battling. I would give up everything to help them. 

0:23:08 - Speaker 1

And we've mentioned integration quite a few times in this chat so far. What do you notice about how we're doing with? 

0:23:14 - Speaker 3

that here. 

0:23:16 - Speaker 1

I suppose I'm particularly thinking about your generation, Like do you notice change happening or where do you think we're still stuck and not integrating more fully and not integrating more fully. 

0:23:28 - Speaker 3

It's that sense of like. When we're trying to like collaborate with local youth groups who have been around for like several, several years, there's always this like apprehension. You know this. You know they're very skeptical about collaborating with, like minority ethnic youth groups, which doesn't provide much opportunity for integration. Because when you think about it, when you move into a completely new space, you're always looking for communities that you're used to seeing. So you know, I've been in that youth group and seen so many people who are from my same background. I was just looking to sort of talk with more local people and integrate more. So I thought there would be so many opportunities for collaboration and I found that there were barely any for um, collaboration. So it's, it's not the best. In that sense, you know, I don't think there, unless you really go out of your way, there's no certain way you can integrate. Even now, sometimes I still feel like a stranger to Belfast. I still feel like, you know, I don't quite fit in. 

Or, you know, especially during the riots, the anti-immigration riots last year, um, and a lot of like hate that was being spread around in the media and just watching that in, you know the isolation of my bedroom. 

I was so, so, so scared and I know like a lot of young people that I knew personally weren't willing to go out, like we shut down activities completely for that whole period in my East Grove because there were like lists being sent out of like East Groves to target so, and my boss told me that like our organization was one of them and he even went on the BBC news and he was like you know, like he was just trying to spread awareness about it because, you know, it was just such a scary time, um, and a lot of people like, even though you try so hard to like understand and be understanding, hate is never justifiable. It's, it's not something that you can rationalize, it's just so out of place. Racism, discrimination in this community is so out of place and it still saddens me to see that we like even last month there was a protest in the city centre, an anti-immigration protest, and there are still many happening around Dublin, around you know, london. So it's a really sad time to be alive, honestly. 

0:26:12 - Speaker 1

Yeah, and that's really vivid, you know, picturing you in your bedroom, the fear that that had for you and so many people at that time. What did you make of the response to it, both from political leaders, community response, like when you were watching on? Was? 

0:26:30 - Speaker 2

that enough. 

0:26:30 - Speaker 1

What did you want to see said and done at that point? 

0:26:36 - Speaker 3

I know a few political leaders actually came out against the anti-immigration protests, so I saw a lot of people standing on podium saying we don't accept this behavior. This is Belfast, you know, this is not, you know who we are, things like that. But then, after they kind of sort of died down, I never actually saw the support that was given to these communities that were affected. Very, very close to where I lived, there was a Sudanese man's shop that was absolutely burnt, like it was set on fire during the protest and till now I work, I walk past when, when I used to live in that area and I just see like it's just still in disarray, it's not, it's never, it was never rebuilt. That's someone's life, that's his livelihood, you know, absolutely ruined. 

Um, there wasn't much support giving to the communities as well, like you know, because it was a very, very dangerous time to be walking around. You know if you look different, if you dress different, if you acted differently, if you sounded differently. So, yeah, the support after was barely. We were like there were a lot of discussions but not a lot of action and what about since then? 

0:27:57 - Speaker 1

what's been the legacy of some of that? Even now? Um, yeah, I suppose it potentially almost has gone back onto the surface a bit more, although online, obviously, it is very evident as well. But, yeah, I suppose there's still a legacy, um for for young people and communities. Um, like you're working in. 

0:28:16 - Speaker 3

For, like my community especially, I know there was a lot of focus on just hearing out young people and how they felt and what they felt like they needed to be supported with. So I think during that time we actually like scheduled, like calls, and we just sort of supported each other through that process. Just, you know, sending messages, say no, I hope you're safe, and things like that. So for me, the legacy that probably we could have gotten from that was, you know, to bring more light, shed more light onto things like that, because it seemed like I speak to people and they're like it was such a small number of people who organize these things. But underneath some people may not be brave to go out, but underneath the surface, there is still this apprehension, there's still this you know, a lot of discrimination. Like just this week, um, next to, like, a bus stop close to my house, there was racist graffiti on it. So, honestly, I don't, I don't, I don't know. I'm hopeful for the future, but right now it's like the positives are just not there. 

0:29:32 - Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, just calling it. Yeah, honest, honest about that and where we, where we need to act and focus. When I think of the peacemaking of this place, I do think of voices like yourself and what you're bringing and the advocacy messages that you're getting out there. What would you hope to contribute in the future in terms of your call around integration and, I suppose, some of the passions that are on your heart? How do you want to really contribute to the flourishing of peace here? 

0:30:07 - Speaker 3

Every day. I want to give back because I recognize just how much being in Belfast has helped me tremendously. The opportunities I got here. I don't think I could have gone anywhere else in the world. So I know this is my home, I know this is my space and I just want to keep giving back whatever way I could like, even at work, organizing like activities, um, just bringing people together and, you know, going out, speaking, speaking out, you know people coming to me for help and extending, you know helping hand, just little things like that. 

I feel would, you know, sort of help me give back to Belfast because I just I'm so grateful for the space that I find myself in. So you know, I don't know in the future, like going to university is definitely one of my like top priorities and I just want to make sure that you know I don't place like a burden on my mom because she works so, so hard. So for me it would definitely be like sort of reaching out to schools and places for like scholarships and things like that. So I really hope that you know I can stay here for much, much longer and, you know, really build a life for myself here. 

0:31:36 - Speaker 1

And we've been really honest about some of the challenges of this place, but you've also mentioned the hopes that you have for here. When you think of here and the home that you find here, what, what are your hopes for Belfast and for this place in terms of what you would like to hopes for Belfast, for this place, in terms of what you would like to see for for communities across this place? 

0:31:56 - Speaker 3

Um, when I just think about the Senator Mitchell's speech, when he was talking about passing the torch onto the young people, you know, we need to reinvent what peace looks like for belfast because as much as like we've gone so far from you know what it was like 20, 30 years ago, but you know, there's still divisions, there's still sectarianism, there's still, you know, violence, there's still so much hate, um, and some people think that, you know, because there's people are really like I don't just it sounded so funny when I heard it, but then, you know, I sort of saw a bit of sense to it. 

Um, we had a conference where somebody mentioned that, oh, because, um, you know, the troubles have gone so far, you know, and people are starting starting to like re-target their hatred towards new, newer communities, and I was just like that's, that's a very, that's a very interesting statement. You made me think a lot about you know what peace actually looks like for now and for the next 30 years, and for me it's acceptance. It's it really boils down to acceptance. A lot of people don't accept, you know, difference and they're not open to difference. So I would hope in the future there would be more acceptance, there would be more openness, there would be more acceptance. There would be more openness, there would be more community, you know, and not just my community, their community, our community. 

0:33:37 - Speaker 1

And I thank you so much um just for sharing all that so young and just so much um incredible perspective there, so thank you so much for doing this with me. 

0:33:48 - Speaker 3

Thank you so much for having me. It was brilliant, honestly, and you know you know, being here, I got to reflect as well, so I'm really glad. You know I got to speak to you, jude, and you're doing amazing work, a lot of amazing work, so thank you so much so, so much loved it. 

0:34:09 - Speaker 1

So, sarah Louise, we've just listened back to Eni there. Um, I absolutely loved speaking to her. She was an absolute blast of life. 

0:34:17 - Speaker 2

So I'm just wondering what you, what you, took from the conversation with her my first impressions were what an articulate young woman to have such a sense of what's going on in a place that she didn't grow up in necessarily, but has been able to understand the dynamics very quickly and not only understand them but actually be a force for good within them. I just thought that was so special and so like. Would like just to have the guts to do. That is like she is going to go far in life. There is absolutely no doubt about that. The ability to communicate as effectively as she communicates, to be able to see an issue and not just moan about it absent-mindedly or in a, you know, stuck in a victim mindset, but to be part of a solution like that is the hope that the world needs right now. 

And listening to what she said, I just thought you know that that can be such a lesson to so many people, young people. You know there is power in inactively doing something and there's nothing stopping any young person in Northern Ireland from getting off their butt and being part of the solution, and you know to have experienced that in a different context. You know she started by saying understanding that she felt othered, and I wonder if everyone understands what that concept means, because probably there are a lot of terms that we come across because we're interested in this kind of work and so it comes across really naturally to know what that means. But to be rejected from school and to fight for a place and to understand that the systems that are supposed to be there to help protect you are are not listening like that is very frustrating. But also to not give up and to know that you know there's there's that saying where there's a will, there's a way, and that seemed to be very evident in in her life. 

0:36:36 - Speaker 1

What a ledge and only 18 years old, which is just phenomenal and makes you question what am I doing with my life? Um, because she is on fire, my mind went in so many different directions. Um, but overall, mostly, I just thought we need diverse voices like this and we need to move way beyond the two community lens here. We need those voices to bring freshness, to bring inspiration actually to some of the stuff that we are stuck with and actually what they can contribute to the post-conflict space. I loved a phrase she used. It was right towards the end and she said I want to reinvent what peace, or see peace reinvented in terms of what it looks like, and she talked about Senator George Mitchell in his very recent visit to Belfast and he talked about passing the torch to the next generation. 

And there you have a young woman ready, she's grabbing at the torch and that advocacy it's just that strong advocate that she is. I think it opens up, up possibilities. It's actually a call um to leadership. And just just on the voice piece as well, I was thinking about that stat, that that gets included in conversations about the under-representation of women in terms of peacemaking. Um, the latest stat I could see was 2023, where, across the world, women made up only five percent of negotiators. And then it it took me into thinking about how we need more diverse voices. 

0:38:02 - Speaker 2

Like any, there's a young woman, but it's that that diversity, what that can contribute to this phase of peacemaking here absolutely, and I mean don't get me started, but I I just get deeply frustrated by the fact that so many people are platformed and have microphones but are not doing anything to push things forward. And part of being able to host these conversations and delve into these topics is that we get to identify people that are powerfully, not always platformed but are just getting on with it and doing the work anyway. And I just thought what an incredible young woman like she is. She's a leader already. She is going to be a powerful force, regardless of what she does with her life, and just to be able to capture some of the get up and go. 

You know she she talked about her mum and how her mum had given her so many opportunities and it reminded me of my mum. You know, my mum did so much to do that for me and the power in that can never be understated, because that legacy of hope transfers through generations as a consequence and how she was inspired by her mum and how she was really spurred on because she said you know, my mum sacrificed so much to get here, to be here, to bring to, to allow us to have a better opportunity, and she didn't want to waste that and the energy in that and the momentum. You could hear it in her voice, but also you could see it in the life that she's lived already, like you know, where is she going to be when she's 30? 

0:39:46 - Speaker 1

Yeah, I think it raises really interesting conversations that we don't maybe naturally associate with post-conflict topics, because I was thinking about the whole subject of integration and her experience, as you say, when she came in and she, she realized, oh, where do I put myself, where do I belong? 

Yeah, and you know, it does open up that conversation about integration because sometimes and I know this is more a social media narrative to the darker side of things, where people are putting the onus of on integration onto some of these communities, whereas this is a whole societal thing here that we should all be looking at um and in terms of then her battle to get a school space. You know something she shouldn't be battling you're going the structures were structurally not set up here to be beyond two communities and and that is a massive post-conflict issue that you would want to see Stormont grappling with, and I I know that there's there's so many demands for strategies, um and Stormont is is a place under pressure in that sense. But there is um, a refugee integration strategy that has been drafted but hasn't actually come into being, and and there is such a need for that sort of work and actually leadership from the top. 

0:40:59 - Speaker 2

Yeah, I think there's been a lot of I don't know if there's another term but laziness at the governmental level and it's keeping us stuck of brilliant, hard-working people who are just so fed up with the nonsense and don't engage in civic or political things because they feel like what is the point? You know, I'm just going to get on here, I'm just going to work hard, I'm going to raise my family, I'm going to contribute to my society, community in the various ways that I do. I'm not going to engage. And yet it's those voices on the periphery that are the loudest but that don't represent the majority of of people in this brilliant country that we call home yeah, and I think she was such an anecdote. 

0:41:51 - Speaker 1

Is that the right word? Antidote? That's the word I'm looking for antidote she's such an antidote to that, because that whole again sort of post-conflict legacy where it's like say nothing, keep your head down. And she's saying who else is going to advocate for you if you do not advocate and shout for yourself and ask for help? And I think that's. 

0:42:09 - Speaker 2

There's a real blast of truth in that, for for all of us and the thing that really actually struck me afterwards like, wow, you know, she has faced racism herself, she has faced exclusion herself, she has faced feeling unheard. She's not sitting in victim victimhood. There was not a hint or a tinge of any any of that from her, or bitterness in any way. She was hopeful and resolute and moving forward, and I think that we can all learn a lot from that specifically as well, like that attitude of okay, my circumstances might not be ideal, but actually I have all within me to change. Not be ideal, but actually I have all within me to change what needs to be changed. 

And so much of you know that's a life lesson to any of us right that when we get stuck in a mindset of, oh, it's always going to be this way, well, it probably is always going to be this way. If we have the ability to step outside of ourselves for a second and imagine this might be different. But I'm gonna have to really focus hard on. You know, thinking myself into this might be different. But if we just give up, well, of course it's not going to be different. So I think, yeah, that that's there's a lot of. I mean, that's going into a coaching rabbit hole where we could talk for a long time and and we don't have time, but, um, there's a lot of opportunity in just the mindset around that. 

0:43:44 - Speaker 1

And yes, she's young, but she is a hopeful, shining light for the future and I, I think, when we're thinking now and trying to wrestle with racism and the reality of that and name some of that, you know, thinking back to the summer and the anti-immigration protests and riots and hatred that was on display. She raised an interesting question because she I think she was quoting from a conference that she was at. But she said is your division and violence being retargeted to new communities here? And I think that again brings it into the space that we should be talking about. This is really highly relevant in some of the stuff that we are working through now as a society, and that was. 

I think it's a really tragic question, but dolls need to be looked at and again, what you're saying, like her voice, needs to be listened to. You know, she's really been up at Stormont and you're sort of thinking, get, get her back up there, she get her back. What a woman. So, yeah, I think that's a really important question, um, to look at, and I know just even in the news in recent times, there are um really empowered young people, um who are speaking out about some of the issues that she is, and in the news just in the last few days there was a report launched and it was young asylum seekers talking about very similar issues and it was called stranded dreams was their report and just how some of them are being left out of the education system at that critical age. So people are really having to advocate and lobby for themselves, and that does raise questions, then, about how government is going to respond to some of what they're raising and what any is raising here. 

0:45:23 - Speaker 2

I think the thing that struck me overall about her was she's been very generous to a country that hasn't been generous towards her, necessarily, and the openness in which she has embraced this place and found ways to be hopeful and got stuck in and being part of the solution and I love. 

0:45:47 - Speaker 1

The story I will take away is her walking into the youth club on the Antrim Road and just saying I'm here, I want to volunteer, and then she was really accepted with open arms and you know there's a real beauty in that stepping out and just them being received in that way. You know it's beautiful. You've been listening to peace by peace. Thanks so much for joining us. Our big hope here is that these would spark conversations in the homes and worlds we live and move in as, piece by piece, we figure peace out together. We'd love to bring piece by piece out into the wild and host conversations in your community. If you're interested in sponsoring this venture and adventure, then please do get in touch.