Collective Intelligence: Marketing Insights & Ideas to Help Brands Thrive

Maximizing Strategic, Ethical Data to Win Consumers

January 31, 2024 Interpublic Group of Companies (IPG) Season 2 Episode 11
Collective Intelligence: Marketing Insights & Ideas to Help Brands Thrive
Maximizing Strategic, Ethical Data to Win Consumers
Show Notes Transcript

Tina Allan, Global Chief Data & Intelligence Officer at FCB, Brady Gadberry, SVP, Products, Data & Identity at Acxiom and Kyle Hollaway, SVP, Head of Global Identity Products at Acxiom join CI Conversations host Jen Sain to discuss how using consumer data ethically and strategically can help brands create marketing messaging that cultivates loyal consumers.

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[00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to the Collective Intelligence Podcast from IPG. We deliver marketing insights that help modern brands thrive. In this episode, you'll hear about the latest perspectives featured at Listen then log on to find new opportunities for your brand to stand out. 

[00:00:22] Jen Sain (Host): Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of CI conversations. I'm your host, Jen Sain, and I am so happy today to welcome some colleagues from FCB and from Acxiom. So today we'll be talking about Real Identity  or RealID, which is a first party product suite from Acxiom and also more broadly understanding today's consumer and particularly understanding how consumer data can create relevant experiences and marketing messaging.

[00:00:47] Jen Sain (Host): But before we get into all that, I want to offer a warm welcome to all of our guests. Welcome. I would love it if you could each introduce yourselves. Tina, can you kick us off? 

[00:00:55] Tina A: Thanks for having us today. I'm Tina Allan. I'm part of the global team at FCB and I'm the chief data and intelligence officer. Excited to be here today. 

Jen Sain (Host): Excited to have you. 

[00:01:08] Brad G: And I'm Brady Gadbury. I am the global head of data products at Acxiom and I am also super happy to be here too. 

[00:01:17] Kyle H: And I'm Kyle Holloway. And I'm the head of global identity at Acxiom. 

[00:01:22] Jen Sain (Host): Great. Well, thank you all. Since folks kind of get a little glossed over when we talk about data, I want our listeners to stay with us because we're going to distill that down and demystify it and really get into why this is so important and actionable, which is really where I think the magic is.

[00:01:37] Jen Sain (Host): So, before we get into all that, we should probably tell [00:01:40] our listeners what Real Identity or RealID is and kind of within that kind of the key components where you each come into that. Um, perhaps what client needs it addresses. So that's kind of a load of questions. So, I'll let you take it off. So go ahead. Whoever wants to jump right in, that would be great.

[00:01:56] Brad G: Let me start with that. And let me start at maybe even a higher level than that, Jen, before we get, you know, down particularly. Into identity in it. Let's start with that demystifying data use. I think what's so exciting about the conversation we're about to have is that it's, it's really not an eyes gloss over kind of like bits and bytes down in the weeds data conversation. It's this kind of fundamental fact that marketing is better when it's driven by facts and when it's driven by data. And so ultimately what we're talking about enabling here is how do we continue to improve what we can do for clients by taking guesswork out, by taking out proxies, by using real world experience of consumers with the brands that they interact with, in order to help those brands meet them where they are and meet their needs.

[00:02:48] Brad G: And so ultimately, I think that's what we're all trying to enable. And what's exciting about this is that we're. On the cusp of being able to do things because of the way technology has grown the way that the industry is moving sometimes feels like it's moving further away from that with trends in consumer privacy, with greater security restrictions.

[00:03:14] Brad G: But what we're talking about today is the way to honor all of those consumer preferences and needs and also create better and better experiences for them, with brands. And so the conversation Tina and I've been having over the last couple of months has really been about when the creative agency has access to really great facts and really great experiences from the consumers with the brands that they interact with, how that really changes the level of what the agency can do and where they can take a brand, but that's what I'm super interested in. And like, I'd love for Tina to share parts of that, the conversation we've been having, um, with you, Jen. 

[00:03:56] Tina A: As a creative agency right now, I doubt anyone is chatting with their CMOs or their client marketing leaders who aren't talking about omni channel, personalization at scale, understanding your high value audiences, retention, all of these buzz words that are out there today require robust understanding of their consumer, actually a 360 view of the consumer, which is another buzzword. So how do you get to that? I mean, at the end of the day, identity is how we understand our customers. But technically when you talk to clients about first party data and I say, okay, tell me what you have or what is your first party data, you know, it gets very complicated, nebulous, and sort of vague. Well, we got emails. We got like a billion emails. How long? What's the recency? What else do we know? Is there duplication? The complexity gets very deep. But what I love about this solution is, and when I jump up and down and say, YES. Acxiom has a solution within the IPG family. 

It's called RealID, and what it allows us to do is to partner with our clients and their first party data, go into that environment, and plus it. Think of, like, supersizing it and making it better and richer. And what does that do for the creative agency? Well, we can validate the assumptions we have. On the consumers were reaching or looking for.

[00:05:23] Tina A: We can do testing and learning strategy because now we have more robustness to understand it. And it allows us to uncover insights, sometimes very granular, but those can be very exciting and spark interest for our creative agency. We'll give you a little more of that. And some examples of how we've done that for some of our verticals. But I think it might be good to toss it over and just hear a little bit more about the product and what it is.

[00:05:48] Kyle H: Yeah, thank you, and the exciting thing about RealIDis that in reality, it is, it is both a product, a suite of capabilities, as well as kind of a functional concept because identity at the core as Brady and Tina both really elaborate on is a means to an end, and so while it is a product, it's also a strategy, and so RealIDis really addressing some of the challenges that we've seen emerging in the marketplace that we're all very familiar with, you know, around, as Brady mentioned, regulatory changes, strategies around. Privacy and the ability to maintain control of data really address the consumer's concerns around their data being propagated across the ecosystem.

[00:06:41] Kyle H: And so in doing that, we've taken our referential graph so that view of the U. S. population where we've, you know, pulled together a identity resolution capability that is multi sourced and it has, That's a lot of different touch points. So, uh, you know, Tina was mentioning about like, hey, in my first party, I've got a lot of emails. Well, we all know that individuals have anywhere from four to seven active emails. And so how do you know who you actually have? And that's kind of the concept of Real Identity and RealID is. Bring it down to say, hey, all those four to seven emails belong to a person. And now we're able to associate lots of data and information about that person and expose that in a privacy conscious manner within the leading cloud ecosystems so that a brand is able to maintain control of their data. They're not sending their first party data around the broader ecosystem. They're able to resolve to individuals, generate the actual Real ID. So that's the product side, the actual identifier and that identifier then as the connective tissue to data, such as Acxiom has a very broad set of consumer data that we can associate at the individual and the household level that all feeds into the solution, as Tina was talking about this, driving those consumer engagements, the insights, the ability to actually address the consumer with intelligence across all kinds of channels and medium.

[00:08:15] Tina A: I think one more add to that, and I just want to double tap on it for everybody. Ethically connect clients today are hyper sensitive as they should be about data and security. And what I love in our IPG family is having Acxiom with us, the most ethically sourced data partner, right? 

When you're bringing that kind of partnership and rigor to a product, it elevates it to another level. So sorry to be a little technical, creative bragging on this, but I think it is a high differential that most, you know, in this day and age, and I think it's only going to get more and more pressure on that as we go into 2024 ethically source and ethically connected to the consumer.

[00:09:00] Brad G: Yeah, Tina, you can brag on us all you want for that. Never, never stop with that. And I'll just say, like, it's not just that our clients are hyper focused on it. We are too. I spent the early part of my career at Acxiom. I left great experiences otherwise. Started a company, uh, worked other places. Luckily, I've always worked in places that had like a hyper focus on consumer privacy. But I can tell you that when I came back to Acxiom a few years ago, that was a primary reason. There isn't a company that's more focused on that than we are because it's what's right for people, not just right for our clients. 

[00:09:36] Tina A: Can we role play a little bit of day in the life of how the product works? Maybe we just take one of our clients in like the automotive space and talk about how does it actually work. We've got this product. I've got a client. Yeah. I've spoken to them and they're in, they're hand raising. 

[00:09:52] Brad G: Let me talk about that. When Kyle was talking a minute ago about the detail of Hey, there's all these different representations of an individual. What's really important in that connective tissue that he talked about is that it's common, right? And it is connective. So what's important when we're building kind of like a fact based strategy for serving a client is that there's this common translation layer, this common spine that all of the client's data can connect to. We want to know, Jen, that that's you who bought that new car or that you who've had the car that's like five years old and you have a great relationship with the service department at your dealership, right? And then we want to also be able to leverage that information with things that Acxiom may understand or predict about what kind of channels you prefer to be reached in and other information about your likelihood to be in market for a new car and all of kind of the third-party data. And so when we have those things connected, we can build this, we build a base that is leveraging the best of what a brand in this case, like Tina's talking about an automaker that we work with has a relationship with their customers, the best of what Acxiom and our partners know about those customers. And then that's all teed it up into a solution that Tina's team can then like really mine and understand those different customer journeys and those customer experiences and who's likely to buy which kind of vehicle next. What are the right communication strategies to meet with them in each place?

[00:11:28] Brad G: So, what that really manifests itself is that there is this common set of translation layer about who are the people. And when I think about myself in that, I've got a different representation that I use when I am at publishers, right? And I have a different representation of myself when I go and talk to my cable company and I've got a different representation of myself. I hate to say it, I've got like a junk email address or something. You know, I sign up for when I'm reading publications. It's not the one that, you know, I give it to my family. And, and that's just one way to contact or like recognize somebody as an email address.

And so we need to be able to recognize like all those different aspects of a person so that we can really understand, as Tina said, the, like the full view, that 360 degree view of the person in order to make the best decisions about how to interact with them, with a brand. 

[00:12:23] Kyle H: Yeah, and to kind of build off what Brady was saying there, you know, kind of in the day in the life, uh, you know, if you'd kind of take the role play as the brand, you're collecting this first party data through all these different channels, right? And so within my enterprise, I've got data, which I am sourcing, you know, with permissions from the consumer, cause I've got that direct relationship. So there's consent and I have that data, but I don't know what I don't know. Like, I don't know those representations that Brady was talking about. How has the consumer presented themselves?

So that's where the opportunity then is to take those various sources of first party data across the enterprise and map them to that identity spine through a process. You know, Real ID. Let's take, for instance, Snowflake. We have RealIDexposed into Snowflake, meaning. It's a native application that's available.

[00:13:16] Kyle H: So a brand, if they have their data sitting within their own snowflake instance, not, you know, FCBs, not Acxiom’s, but in their own private instance, they can run the native application to get those Real IDs. For those various representations, and then that becomes the key within their enterprise to pull that first party data together, and it's also the key that unlocks the connectivity to all the Acxiom data that now you have that view. So kind of the day in the life is understand the source of your data. Know that you maintain control of that data. Now associate the Real IDs to that data in your ecosystem and now leveraging Acxiom's native applications to also connect Acxiom data to that. Now you've got this powerful insight on that consumer that is that 360 degree view, which now can fuel all those downstream engagements. 

[00:14:13] Brad G: Yeah, and I think what you said that was so important there, Kyle, is that they're never losing control of their data. I think that's the biggest trend that we're seeing happen amongst clients and among the overall kind of marketing data ecosystem is an evolution of like a desire for brands to control more and more directly their first party data and more and more clients want to be really protective as they should be, Jen, of like your information. And so as Kyle said, you've given the car company when you went by the car, a set of information about yourself and like you've chosen to do that. And so when we work with our client there, they want to make sure that that data is like super secure and they're in control of where that shared. So what's important here is we need that connective ability, be able to really understand all those different aspects while still maintaining all that control and the brand's hands of all of your data, Jen. So that's, what's so different about what we're doing here is opening up this kind of ecosystem of data sharing and data collaboration, while also fully leaving all of the control of that data, not sharing any of your personal information over with Tina when Tina is trying to leverage a really good set of understanding about how people like you interact with the companies that you, you work with.

[00:15:40] Jen Sain (Host): Yeah, and actually, I think that's, you know, I don't think we can talk enough about those day in the life examples. And certainly again, you know, underscore, you know, as Tina did early on to all of our listeners that we are talking to a data agency and a creative agency, which might seem really odd to some people, so I just want to keep reiterating that. And again, kind of, you know, when folks listen, usually, you know, the special, the special sauce is usually in those day in the life examples. Just to kind of add a little bit more color to what you all are saying Brady early on, you know, well, not early on, but just a little while ago, you talked about the automotive industry. Are there any other industries that you can kind of give some color to with some more specific day in the life examples, perhaps pharma? Or Tina, perhaps even in, you know, in your work with clients, you know, broadly, of course, not naming names or anything like that, but just to kind of further amplify the fact that this, you know, Kyle had said early on, this is a means to an end, and that end is creativity and experiential and all the good stuff and why we're here. So I'd love to hear about that.

[00:16:35] Tina A: Yeah, let me just jump in. I think, you know, automotive and those are kind of known industries, right? Where I think of the data as sophistication levels because we're, we're very close on that journey. I think there's a massive opportunity for CPG. And when we think of CPG right now, the value for the brand is how can they get closer to the consumer?

You know, the world is going from brand to buy very quickly. They want to have a relationship. But at the end of the day, that relationship is very different than that relationship from a car company. So, communications and the role of the creative agency becomes a little different. What we like to focus on is the three Ps.

We need precision up front so we can really dive deep on those precise insights. Those insights might be when people buy, what cultural moments they are that are affecting their, their purchasing, how their repeat customers. when they're referring, what channels they're activating on. It might just not be a one step.

It might be a two step. All of that comes from us understanding those precise insights from the consumer. The second is personalization, which the personalization in the automotive space is very different than the personalization. When you think of CPG, that might be, you know, I want to buy that product or I want that product to show up in a way for me that is most convenient, usable, whatever that is. So, contacts might really matter for us as opposed to traditional personalization with name. And then the last, which I think all consumers and brands want right now is predictive. What's the next best thing, the next best purchase, the next best thing I should buy? And we're in a world right now that, you know, done right with creative and respectfully, it's very beautiful. It's not creepy at all. And it's the expectation of the consumer that gets them closer to the brand. All of this is why identity and that customer 360 and that robustness is so important. 

[00:18:39] Brad G: Yeah, Tina, let me just add on to that, that I don't think, Jen, you kind of started this with like, how do I explain this to my dad, or I forgot exactly what you said. I don't think my dad would say that he would articulate it the way that Tina did, but I can tell you this, like, I don't know anybody who doesn't actually want what Tina just said, which is like, I have a relationship with this brand. They should understand. Me enough to like only speak to me about relevant things and people are frustrated when they don't, when they're frustrated, when like I just bought that wire, like, why are they still trying to get me to buy it? Or they don't understand really like what's next for me. So, I think everybody craves that feeling of understanding and those are the relationships that they go deeper on. And so I think that that is, that's part and parcel to this and I think it's super important that we give the ability to enable that.

[00:19:31] Tina A: Before you go further, I mean, I think that's a consumer, right? They crave, show me, know me, and drive value with me. I think the brands at the second point, and maybe we haven't touched on this, we touched on security, but I'm going to touch on really this idea of efficiency. It gives you the ability to do more with what you have. And I think I'm always working closely with the creative teams and the media teams, but I'm like, you know, when the creative is so strong and great, and we're so connected to the consumer, how much do we have? How much do we know about them before we have to go buy target space, all of that? Like that's why having really leaning into your first party strategy is going to help you and your overall marketing budget, we don't have to go find more. We probably need to focus on more, you know, where are our growth audiences today and who are our high valued audiences that maybe we aren't spending enough time, money or attention on. I think as we go into next year, you're going to hear more marketers talk about efficiency. And I'm going to reply back to them to say, how's your first party strategy? Have you thought about identity? What do you have? And can we use some products to understand, you know, what you have today? And that's where I circle back to the product offering. 

[00:20:56] Kyle H: Yeah, I think specifically that Tina, the opportunity you mentioned precision before, right. And it is the ability to leverage that first party. Data with precision, even when you go into a pseudonymous environment, right, where you're actually operating without the PII, but to know the confidence that you have that precision behind it, that has connected the right data to the right person so that you're able to make that right decision. And historically, because of the way the ecosystem has functioned, a lot of times that precision was kind of lost because there's, you know, a lot of intermediaries you're going through as you started getting to like cookie sinks and distribution of data, you really lost sight of. Precision or the confidence in that precision.

This now gives you that foundation where you can know like, hey, this is my first party. I don't have to send my first party PII to all these different intermediaries. I can now take my first party PII where it sits. Translate it to these IDs, get precise data associated with those IDs, and then achieve this level of, well, we've kind of coined this functional anonymity where it's like, it's anonymous, but it's functionally aligned with my strategies and my need for precision and be able to pass it into the ecosystem so that what Tina's team is doing, they can have that confidence that it's known deterministic people that they're dealing with, even if they don't have the fact that it's Jen or Jen's dad, right? But it is the right data about Jen's dad that they are making decisions on how to engage that individual across a whole, you know, slew of channels and engagements. 

[00:22:47] Jen Sain (Host): And I think that precision piece just is really interesting, you know, not only from a side of like Tina side from an agency, but I think also from the consumer side, you know, you know, Tina, you joked, you know, it's not creepy at all, because I do think that I mean, and it corrects me if I'm wrong, please, that consumers do expect, I think now for their data to be collected, but if the experience that they're receiving is precise and you know, seemingly bespoke and authentic, then I think then it resonates and rather than becomes a concern or an annoyance at the very least.

[00:23:17] Brad G: Yeah, I think there's a value exchange there, Jen, that like I give a certain amount of access to my data to a brand that I want to have a relationship with. And I think what we're talking about here is enabling those brands to really be able to honor that trust with a consumer. And I think that's so important.

You mentioned something a few minutes ago, and it's an industry where this is maybe even more critical. And you asked about pharma and about health. So let me speak to that for just a minute. We're working with FCB and a client who has this exact situation confronting them. I spend a whole lot of time thinking about health data from a third party context and Acxiom's got a great set of predictive data about who's likely to benefit or want more information about a particular kind of therapy, and at the same time when we go and we talk to pharma clients, they also have direct relationships with consumers. We don't always think about that. We think about, you know, a person goes and has a relationship with their physician, or they have and they go and have a relationship with their pharmacy and that's their primary place that they're interacting, but they're also going to manufacture websites and finding signing up for more information or trying to understand what the likely benefits are.

[00:24:31] Brad G: And what we've seen is that when consumers have more information, they become better patients and they have a better conversation with their physician and the more conversations they have with their physician, they're more likely to be on a therapy to treat them. And we've connected that all the way through to the ability that they have better health outcomes. And so really what we've seen is like data saves lives because it is actually creating a better patient outcome. And when I go and ask for information. for about a particular therapy from the company that makes it, they want to have a better understanding of that. And that's a relationship, and that's a set of data that's not only highly regulated as it should be personally, I believe that I want, you know, all of my health information to be super protected, but they still want to be able to work and understand the data that is trusted to them by patients, and they want to be able to leverage that and to be able to reach more people. And so, uh, FCB and Acxiom together are working with a client in this exact way to use Real Identity sitting in Snowflake. Where they also have data to be able to functionally anonymize, as Kyle said, understand, respect all of the personal health information. Never take any of that personally identifiable information from the pharma company, and at the same time, be able to leverage that functionally anonymous data to drive better decisions and strategies. for how FCB can help them reach other patients with, with similar, um, similar kind of needs. And so I just think it's a great way that we're evolving in order to meet both the consumer and the, you know, as a patient needs, as well as the brands that we're, we're working with.

[00:26:21] Tina A: I'm going to chime in there. I'm like, it is the evolution of creativity, right? Because what we're doing is not the ability to even understand. It's also giving us the ability to be very timely. So, if something is happening for the brand or the product they want to talk about very quickly and we don't have time to plan out media and all of that. If we understand those consumers, we can reach them much more quickly and targeted than it would take to do a larger launch, bigger strategy, and awareness play.

So I think we see well, brands are looking to be timely. Identity and knowing your customer and having the access to that sort of understanding them only helps the creative to get to the solution faster. And when you've got a creative team who is saying like, what else? Tell me what's unique. Tell me what these trends and patterns are. We like to say, what are the people and what are the patterns that we're seeing? This allows us to do that. And I think the visibility doesn't only happen on the. Creative agency or the media agency, what it's allowing to do too, is this role of identity and where Acxiom is playing is allowing us to take full circle back to even talk to product.

These are some insights. It's almost creating a closed loop. So we're not just pushing out the marketing, but we're also creating this closed loop to understand, hey, here's, through our test and learns what are very sort of responsive and where we can actually have some conversations with your product teams to see how we're understanding the consumer in a whole new way.

And that's when I get super excited because someone's like, you know, yes, we are data and intelligence teams at creative agencies, but that creativity hopefully is affecting everyone in that brand's ecosystem when we've got the structure of the data and the tight understanding of the consumer. 

[00:28:18] Brad G: Yeah, I think that's so critical, Tina. And there's another kind of loop closing we haven't talked about yet that I think is at least worth a mention. We, we've, I think rightfully focused on a lot of first-party data issues here. And that's for anybody, if you don't know what the word first party means or the term means, that's really like, you know, the data that's collected directly by an organization or a brand, as opposed to other data that kind of exists out in the MarTech or AdTech ecosystem.

Out there in everything, a good third-party data strategy starts with a good first party data strategy. No data strategy should start anywhere else, but from understanding existing customers and what's working. However, from that if I only know my existing customers, I can never grow. Right? So we have to be predictive in order to grow, go and reach new customers in a, in an effective way. And so first party data not only drives like how do we evolve and continue to care and nurture and grow the relationship with my existing customers, but also serves as a foundation for a growth strategy to bring in new customers. And that's where this kind of concept of a functionally anonymous of a privacy protecting identity becomes critical, not just in how a brand interacts with, it's folks at IPG like us within these agencies, but also out into the broader ecosystem. So there needs to be, and there is the ability to say, I need to connect what we understand with the brand to the opportunities that we can create and strategies that we can deploy as IPG and then out into a broader ecosystem.

So that identity needs to be able to. Be common and also speak to, you know, out at your ad tech partners or at to the publishers, because ultimately if we're going to reach someone who's reading an article on a website or that they're in social media or in connected TV, again, fully privacy protected, but we can still understand that we can get the right message, in channel, to someone that it will resonate with. And then to close the loop, we need that common identity. We're working with people on the measurement side to be able to say, “Oh, and now I can measure the effectiveness of that as well”. And understand that those messages reach the group of people that we intended it to.

Um, and so in all places, we want to be able to have this common. Identity stitched through the entire ecosystem so that we can take what a brand knows, combine it with what an Acxiom may know, put that out into the ecosystem with sound strategies informed by that data and have those campaigns come back and inform and optimize the next step that we'll come up with for what we're going to do next and all of that in order to be factual, be precise, needs to run on the same kind of common identity.

[00:31:15] Jen Sain (Host): So, you know, speaking of closing the loop, we're kind of nearing the end of our time together. So, a couple of times, um, Tina and you Brady had mentioned predictive or prediction. Um, Tina, you had talked about, you know, what you would tell your clients going into 2024. You had said this earlier, you said, you know, predictive efficiency. 

And now you were talking Brady about, you know, looking ahead at the new consumer and predicting, you know, what that will look like, going forward, I will say we're in forecast season. We might even be beyond forecast season, but since we are at the beginning of 2024, I'd like to know what you think you might see. I mean, what do you think might change or evolve or go forward? You know, I would love to hear it from each of your different perspectives and even Kyle from the, from the collection methods itself and from the technology and from the data, where do you, where do you see that evolving coming forward in the new year?

[00:32:00] Tina A: I just did a little bit of my predictions for my earlier account teams and creative teams. I would say first, you're going to see in this world, a really interesting merging of AdTech to Martech to AdTech. And I think you're going to see a consumer who is going to respectfully give more information to be more connected. And the expectation of that consumer is that they will be communicated to by the brand. And there will be a back-and-forth engagement. You'll go from TikTok to your loyalty to a notification to back on another offer. I think that we are going to get very much on the best brands of a very tighter loop cycle, and I think you're going to see consumers become more loyal to those brands. The second is a, just a bit of a warning for marketers. I would, while everyone is in the acquisition and growth stages, so in true performance, don't ignore your best customer and really figure out what your retention strategy is for them. And they are probably your best media channel and allowing them to refer, and you should reward them. So, so both of those are more of, I would say a little bit of an omni channel. And then second, a little bit of where, when we think of the consumer, it's not just the new one, it's your most valuable one. And all of that is underpinned by the most robust data and understanding. 

[00:33:30] Kyle H: Yeah, and to continue off of that, as you see that convergence of Adtech to Martech to Adtech, we will see a deprecation of signals in that ecosystem that have been kind of the things we have traditionally relied upon and RealIDis a response to that, to provide that level of precision and consistency, actually, which is a step forward. It's an evolution forward that's kind of been mandated by the fact that some of these other traditional signals are going to be deprecated, but by leveraging that you're able to understand that consumer through that journey and be able to connect your insights, your knowledge, your intelligence about that consumer in a privacy compliant manner, to be able to enable really the next level of engagement from even where we've been able to, cause now you're able to carry that all the way through and the consumer is, is going to be expecting that. The consumer doesn't really know or care that cookies are being deprecated. They want to know that with the advancements in AI and in other technologies, that there's this assumption that a brand can understand me, and that's what we're trying to enable. And my prediction for 24 is that as traditional signals begin to deprecate this heightened focus on first party and the ability to connect it into a connective tissue that follows that journey is going to bring consumers. The engagements with brands enabled by teams like FCB in a way that's going to drive business forward.

[00:35:09] Brad G: Yeah, maybe Jen, that leaves me with the last word with my prediction and I'll throw it back to you and that's this; I think from the brand side, I predict that we're going to be called on more and more to play the data where it lies. So, as they make choices about the cloud providers about where they're going to put their data with the marketing automation and sales automation and analytics platforms that they choose.

[00:35:33] Brad G: Brands are going to be, are more and more going to just expect that they all interoperate and that there is an ecosystem that enables them to meet their marketing objectives. And so I think that's why what we've been talking about here is really important is that. Things that you used to have to, like when I started in industry, put some data on a tape and put it in the mail and send it off to somebody in order to like do some of the things we're talking about today, the expectation is that you can do all that inside the platforms that they're choosing, and that is a big evolution that we're enabling.

[00:36:11] Jen Sain (Host): Well, thank you each so much for being here. You know, not only was this such a wonderful conversation and informative and, you know, understanding where the value is, but in any case, thank you all for being here and thank you so much to our listeners. As always, this podcast is available on all your favorite players, as well as, where you'll also find a trove of intelligence from around the Interpublic network. Thank you so much. 

[00:36:34] Outro: Thank you for listening to the Collective Intelligence podcast for more marketing insights and ideas Please subscribe to this podcast or visit