In this podcast episode, I’m joined by Phyllis Sarkaria, the author of the book Courageous Clarity. A book geared toward leaders in the workplace. I invited Phyllis to share her thoughts on navigating the way forward in your leadership journey. Guiding leaders who want to inspire, influence, and engage their teams for greater results.
Listen as we discuss problem-solving from a place of inner curiosity and a desire to learn more rather than what's been ingrained in us from the past - that we must have all the answers.
With more than 30 years of leadership experience, Phyllis is a certified coach, facilitator, and trusted adviser. Before founding The Sarkaria Group, Phyllis served as an internal adviser and coach to C-level executives and other key employees at Quidel Corporation, a leading medical diagnostics manufacturer. Phyllis currently works with clients in a wide range of industries, serving as a catalyst to help leaders and teams gain fresh perspectives and elevate their performance by building capacity within themselves to solve problems. Author of Courageous Clarity: Navigating The Way Forward On Your Leadership Journey, the essential guide for leaders who want to inspire, influence, and engage their teams for greater results, Phyllis is also a published scholar on authentic leadership.
In this episode, we discuss:
Resources from this episode:
Connect with Phyllis:
Quote
“As a leader, you need to know yourself. Self-awareness is absolutely key. Once you have a better sense of yourself, it's easier to then engage and use tools to build trust, learn more about others and collaborate in a productive manner.” - Phyllis Sarkaria
Connect with Amy:
Connect with Amy:
In this podcast episode, I’m joined by Phyllis Sarkaria, the author of the book Courageous Clarity. A book geared toward leaders in the workplace. I invited Phyllis to share her thoughts on navigating the way forward in your leadership journey. Guiding leaders who want to inspire, influence, and engage their teams for greater results.
Listen as we discuss problem-solving from a place of inner curiosity and a desire to learn more rather than what's been ingrained in us from the past - that we must have all the answers.
With more than 30 years of leadership experience, Phyllis is a certified coach, facilitator, and trusted adviser. Before founding The Sarkaria Group, Phyllis served as an internal adviser and coach to C-level executives and other key employees at Quidel Corporation, a leading medical diagnostics manufacturer. Phyllis currently works with clients in a wide range of industries, serving as a catalyst to help leaders and teams gain fresh perspectives and elevate their performance by building capacity within themselves to solve problems. Author of Courageous Clarity: Navigating The Way Forward On Your Leadership Journey, the essential guide for leaders who want to inspire, influence, and engage their teams for greater results, Phyllis is also a published scholar on authentic leadership.
In this episode, we discuss:
Resources from this episode:
Connect with Phyllis:
Quote
“As a leader, you need to know yourself. Self-awareness is absolutely key. Once you have a better sense of yourself, it's easier to then engage and use tools to build trust, learn more about others and collaborate in a productive manner.” - Phyllis Sarkaria
Connect with Amy:
Connect with Amy:
Hey everyone, it's Amy Lynn Durham and you're listening to Create Magic At Work. Create Magic At Work is on a mission to equip senior leaders with tools they need to be a true servant leader and actually understand what that means. Improve employee engagement, retain top talent, and transform your workplace culture to have less stress and drama. So, let's start making magic! Welcome back to another episode of Create Magic At Work. Today, I am excited to bring you the author of "Courageous Clarity," Phyllis Sarkaria. Phyllis is a certified coach, facilitator and trusted advisor. She's held executive roles in government affairs and human resources and has had responsibility for functions as diverse as strategic planning, merger, integration and team effectiveness. Before she founded the Sarkaria Group, Phyllis served as an internal advisor and coach to C-level executives and other key employees at the Quidel Corporation, a leading medical diagnostics manufacturer. Phyllis holds a BBA in finance and an MBA from Texas Tech University and an MA in ethical leadership from Claremont Lincoln University. Her coaching certifications are from the Berkeley Executive Coaching Institute, Marshall Goldsmith stakeholder-centered coaching, and systemic team coaching from Peter Hawkins through the Academy of Executive Coaching. She's a Master Certified Corporate coach, through the association of corporate executive coaches. I asked Phyllis to be on Create Magic At Work so she could share the wisdom that she has placed in her latest book, "Courageous Clarity, navigating the way forward on your leadership journey, an essential guide for leaders who want to inspire, influence and engage their teams for greater results." Join me in welcoming Phyllis to Create Magic At Work. Thank you for being on the show!
Phyllis Sarkaria:Thanks so much for having me, Amy. I'm really excited to talk with you.
Amy Lynn Durham:Yeah, I'm excited that you agreed to be here and share your wisdom with the listeners, it's gonna be good today. Because the reason why I reached out to you personally was that your book just came out, titled"Courageous Clarity," I really want to dive right into that. As I read through the book, it was really geared towards leaders in the workplace, and workplace culture. what inspired you to write "Courageous Clarity?"
Phyllis Sarkaria:Okay, fair enough. I love that question. Because "Courageous Clarity" came out of my work by touching work with clients. I found that so many of them were successful already in their careers, but they were running into roadblocks. As I started thinking about the different ways I worked with them, there were commonalities across all of them. I mean, they were, every one of my clients is unique. They're unique in terms of who they are as individuals, bt a variety of industries, positions, and all those things. But there were still these commonalities one the types of things they were encountering and the challenges they were seeing. And so I started thinking about, you know, what is helpful to you, if, as a leader, first of all, you need to know your, self-awareness is absolutely key. Once you have a better sense of yourself, it's easier to then engage with and use tools to build trust, learn more about others, collaborate in a productive manner, and essentially, inspire and engage team members and colleagues. And then finally, for all of us, there are going to be bumps in the road. And so when you run into those inevitable obstacles, or detours, what are some things to keep in mind to help you work through them in a productive way. When I put the book together, it started out with the rather horrible and awkward working title of "M.A.P.", which was an acronym, but it was the idea of the leadership journey, right. And as I started talking with folks and getting some feedback from some of my early reviewers on the draft manuscript, I realized maps are very static. Besides, who uses a paper map anymore, right? Difficult to fold up. Those have gone by the wayside, but GPS is dynamic. It tells you where you are, which is, you know, that's about self-awareness is having a good sense of who you are and why you do the things you do. It helps you understand how to get where you want to go. So having tools to help with the journey, and then if you get lost, it recalculates. So that seemed like a more appropriate model to use in putting this together and helping get the message out of how to improve and build on existing success.
Amy Lynn Durham:I love that. I was thinking, I was reading in your book where you were referencing self-awareness. I love how you just said, you have to know who you are and where you want to go. It sounds so simple. But oh my gosh, that can get so muddy sometimes with our lives. And you know, just you're talking about this journey through GPS, this leadership journey, what are some ways that you've encountered with clients or that you notice that would help leaders get courageous clarity on who they are and where they want to go?
Phyllis Sarkaria:Well, one of the keys absolutely is curiosity. Because particularly, for those who've been really successful, often there's a little bit of the smartest guy or gal in the room syndrome going on. That's natural. If you think about if you've been rewarded throughout your entire career for having answers, then you feel that you have to have answers. And so it can actually cause us, we may be internally curious, but we're not really expressing the kind of curiosity that will help you learn more. And yet if we can access that, or re-access that, again, that desire to learn and understand rather than immediately moved to problem solving, you know, I must have the solution, I must have the answers. Because often we're not solving the right problem, or there wasn't a problem to solve, someone just needed to be listened to. Curiosity about both yourself, and others creates opportunity for discovery.
Amy Lynn Durham:I talk a lot about being a wise and effective change agent. And recently, I did a search and I talk a lot about it, because recently, I did a search on LinkedIn. And I think I can't remember the exact number. But it was like 40 to 50,000 leaders came back identifying with being a change agent. Well, and that was really interesting to me because I just have to comment on this. It's not really a question. It's just you're speaking to what being a wise and effective change agent is, which is a skill in SQand the SQ21. It's just so interesting to me that these systems that we have been thrown into, to work in, have cultivated this environment where you have to always have the answer. And so what happens is it pulls us away from being wise and effective change agents, because we stop listening, and we lose our curiosity. And what I thought was really cool in your book, because we both went to the Berkeley Executive Coaching Institute, curiosity as a huge part of being an Executive Coach. You touched on the spirit of discovery, in the very beginning of your book, and how it's a huge leadership trait. My question for you, because it was so cool the way that you framed it. I just want you to share how the spirit of discovery opens up magic possibilities as a leader?
Phyllis Sarkaria:Oh, I love the way you phrase that. Because to what you were saying, I also see that leaders, particularly because they're required to drive change, they need to drive change, they see opportunities to make things better. And often they just start pushing that consistent thread of change without involving others. And then it becomes their idea. And their change. And once they're gone, they move up or on and things go back to the way they were. What I love about curiosity, and I say in the book, curiosity is discovery. The magic that it creates is it invites others to participate. It actually makes you more influential in many ways. Because by drawing out other's ideas and inviting them to the conversation, to the party, you not only make yourself smarter, but they also start to look to you as someone who helps them think things through and often we think that someone's coming to us with a problem they want us to solve and they may think they are too, you know, you have the experience in this Amy. What would you do? And yet when we're as we learned it at BECI, when we're able to be open to outcome, and not be fixed on a particular goal, but kind of approach things as a scientist we're in, we're working in a very complex, dynamic world. And answers have less value in a complex, dynamic world, because things are constantly changing. And the answers you have may be outdated. And if you think like a scientist who's constantly gathering data, and applying it to what they already know, they're able to evolve and it's not about a right answer or a wrong answer. It's about applying that curiosity to continually learn more, and rise with the acquisition of more information.
Amy Lynn Durham:Hi, there, it's Amy here. Have you already experienced success in your business and life, but feel like there's something more, you're desiring to feel more ease in your business and life, you want to refine your inner voice to where it becomes a powerful inner compass. You want to live in courage, clarity and confidence. And you're looking for someone that can deeply listen in a safe space to co create real results. I can help you tap into your own inner magic and turn what you say you want into a reality with my private one on one coaching program. If that sounds like something that you're interested in, email me, amy@createmagicatwork.net or go to www.createmagicatwork.net and click work with Amy. Sending magic to you. Yeah, so good. And I love the magic that you speak to and how actually not having the quick answer, not rushing to the quick fix, is up leveling yourself as a leader and turning the tables on the room. It's so cool to talk about. So my next question, because there's an overarching theme in Courageous Clarity about listening. We've already touched on it a little bit. You talked about nonverbal indicators for leaders to look at when they're interacting with others. What would be an example of some nonverbal indicators that leaders could take note of? And possibly, virtually, because of the hybrid workspace we're in
Phyllis Sarkaria:Yes. And we do have to think a little bit today? differently when we're dealing with people virtually versus in person. Now, some things actually, they crossover because it's paying attention to pace and tone of voice. If you visually have someone on, you know, if you're on screen, or you're in the room with them, watching their body language, but even if you're just let's say, you were on the phone, or you might have been on a, let's say, a zoom call, but cameras were off. It's understanding, is there someone maybe that always has their camera off, rather than drawing conclusions as to why, really seeking to understand can help you as a leader, because you might get some insight into things. And when we're looking for those nonverbal cues, whether it's the fact that someone doesn't speak up, that they're kind of sitting back with their arms crossed, don't seem engaged. Or maybe someone's talking all the time to say great contributions, but you know say, "can you tone it down a little bit, let's hear what others have to say." Those are indicators to you, as a leader of things, you might want to explore further one-on-one not calling out people individually, but just kind of checking in with them. So, I know often as leaders, we could kind of lose track of how to be more empathetic with others, and Courageous Clarity doesn't really get into empathy. There is a ton of great material out there. So I didn't really explore that in detail. But it's thinking about how to check in with people. And rather than say, "What do you think about this?" Say, "how are you feeling about this?" It could be if you're going through a change initiative, "how are you handling all these changes?" Because if you just say "how are things going?" The automatic answer is "okay." But, opening up with more curious questions and then really listening, not just asking the question so that you can get more information so that you can then respond, but truly listening, stop talking and listening once again.
Amy Lynn Durham:Yeah, thank you. I just had Aaron Tabacco on an episode and he talks about deep listening. And he was saying, you know, throw, listen to understand out the window, you just listen to bear witness. And I think you're really tapping into that as well. And if I had those tools when I was in the leadership space in like my 20s, oh, my gosh, it would be so different. One thing that I'm really curious about when I was reading your book was this, again, is part of spiritual intelligence, for me really, is when the obstacle is the opportunity. And you touched on that. And that's a huge part of quantum leadership.Understanding that living on the edge of chaos can create innovation and inspiration. Cn you elaborate on, you know, just paint a picture for some leaders that are listening, that are going, what the heck, how can an obstacle be an opportunity? Like I'm hitting all kinds of obstacles, and I'm pounding my fist against a brick wall? And what is she talking about?
Phyllis Sarkaria:Well, and sometimes this and this gets back again, to these consistent themes around things like curiosity, and also listening is that often we get on a track, and we know you're on a path, to use the analogy, and you run into there's a big boulder in front of you. It might be a colleague, it might be a project that stalled funding, you know, could be a wide variety of things. And some people will focus so much on what's not working. Rather than pause, take a step back, maybe a different perspective. And ask themselves, how can I use this to get where I want to go because you don't want to lose sight of your end goal. And perhaps, if you need to go, you know, around to get around the boulder. It may be not on the time schedule you wanted, it may take you out of the path you hoped to be on. And at the same time, it can create an opportunity to learn more. I'll give an example from my own career, because I think of a number of different times in the 30 years that I was in corporate life that I ran into what I would refer to as obstacles or detours. Sometimes they were people related, sometimes they were assignment or job related. But at one point in my career, I was I was working as a regulatory lobbyist, I really wanted to get into human resources. I've been teaching college courses in the evening to working adults. And I found that very rewarding and wanted to be in more of the employee development space. And I had an opportunity at the time the company went through the merger, to kind of redirect my career, there was an opportunity for a rotational assignment. And I had conversations with a number of people it looked like this was going to happen. I was very excited about that. Then I got the call saying we want you to take a position in Washington, DC. I've been working in California. And the first thought in my head was no, absolutely not. And I went through a whole range of emotions in a very short period of time ultimately deciding to take the position. And yet, I was only there for a year and for the year I was there, I would say I probably could have gotten more out of it if I had been more open to the experience I was having. Because I was spending so much of my time while I was there trying to figure out how to get back on the path I wanted to be on. And yet through the conversations that occurred before I left, and this is all with the same corporation. And with the work that I was doing. I was given the opportunity to move into human resources. And at that point, I found work that I truly, truly love. So I had that year of kind of wandering in the desert when I didn't really understand this. Like I feel like I've been sort of shunted aside I don't know where I'm headed. This isn't working. And when I finally gave up kind of striving for the solution I wanted, then the real opportunity came along and it's so hard to do when you're in it. But looking back I see how that year helped me get clarity around what I really wanted to do where I wanted to be how I could make the greatest positive impact.
Amy Lynn Durham:Was there a particular moment that you remember that you finally let go of this future path that you wanted? That you were set on? Where was the shift? I'm wondering.
Phyllis Sarkaria:So I think the biggest shift for me probably occurred when, rather than continuing to pursue sort of the frustration and the disappointment that I didn't end up in the job that I was interested in. I started looking at the job I was in and thinking about parallels between that job and the job I wanted, how could I develop people that I was interacting with? And you know, how could I be a leader in a different way? And once I did that, I was also able to say, maybe if I stay in this role, or in a similar role, I can still be very effective. I came to the realization that what I was really struggling with in the moment was I wanted to be back in California. I lived there for 10 years, I had a lot of friends. Yeah, I wanted to get back to the West Coast. And so when I focused on that, and started having conversations that gave me the opportunity to do that. Then through those conversations, it came kind of back around the same company I was working for the boss of my boss said, Hey, would you be interested? If it were offered to you? Would you be interested in moving into HR? I know you were interested in that at one time? Yeah, and so that's, that's just actually, that's just pure grace and magic at work? Because I don't know that there was anything I did that made that happen.
Amy Lynn Durham:Yeah. Or it feels like to me, you shifted from, I'm wandering in this desert, I don't really know where I'm going. And you got clear on okay, I want to be back in California. I know that. And focusing on a positive shift in that way, instead of your energy on the negatives you see, or you know, at the situation at hand. It's just speaks to and sometimes it feels so hard when you're in that, you know, you're in that muddy water where you're like, you're not clear, I keep thinking of, I love your book title Courageous Clarity, because it takes courage as a leader, to ask yourself these questions, and try to get clear on where you want to go. And what you need to do. Yes. And it's like the law of attraction and motion. And I don't know, I'm just so I'm so intrigued and passionate about it.
Phyllis Sarkaria:Before you ask your final question, when I realized in that particular situation that sort of I reframed, I took a fresh perspective, what's the work I want to do? And I can do that work. It's like, let go of title. I can do that work in a lot of different places, and in a lot of different ways.
Amy Lynn Durham:Yeah. I love that. Like, what kind of work do you want to do? Not, What title do you want to have? And where is that going to take you? I mean, really, really great questions for all the listeners to think about. Yeah, I actually have like three more questions. Because I wanted to get to this, and this is such a rich conversation. There was a part in your book that you talked about, it's not all smooth sailing. And there was a particular point in that, that you referenced. You know, sometimes you do need to leave. I mean, you're talking about leaving and shifting jobs as it is on the last topic we discussed. But yeah, I want to speak to that a little bit. Because I think I saw a post from Adam Grant or something where it said, it's not your job to overhaul an entire toxic workplace, like, how are you going to take that on? At some point, you need to make a healthy decision for yourself. So I guess my question for you is, what were you referring to with it's not all smooth sailing, so the listeners can hear and where do you find that balance of contributing versus,"I think I need to find something healthier."
Phyllis Sarkaria:Right? It's, so I do think it's important to say, often we all tend to associate corporate politics when people talk about or organizational politics, they mean it in a negative sense. Because usually it is when the reality there's a wonderful leadership text by it's called"Reframing Organizations" by Bolman and Deal. And it looks at the reality that politics is just taking scarce resources and figuring out how to allocate them. So that in itself is neither good nor bad. It just is. It's how it gets done and most organizations that can begin to feel like a game or are toxic. And, you know, to your question or our observation that, you know, don't try to push that rope uphill. Don't feel that it's your responsibility to change a toxic environment. The question I often will ask a client, if they're kind of struggling with that is, if you're thinking about leaving, what are you running to, don't run from. Run to. And maybe, I haven't actually thought of it until right now, the story I was sharing with you about it when I was transferred to DC, and then I wanted to get back to California. So I had to fundamentally make that shift for myself, is like, instead of running from a situation, I was uncomfortable in, I had to look for what I wanted to run to what was I attracted to, as opposed to, What did I want to escape from?
Amy Lynn Durham:Yeah, you have me thinking? I mean, this is different, because you're saying running. Instead of chasing happiness, following your joy, that can be a way to think about it as well. What does servant leadership mean you?
Phyllis Sarkaria:Servant leadership is absolutely, as a leader, being willing to put the team first it goes beyond, I'm not going to ask you to do anything I wouldn't do. Because a lot of leaders hold themselves to such a high standard, it isn't necessarily fair, to require the same of their teams. But really thinking about the individuals on your team, and how you as a leader can help them be their best. Because it's kind of like, if you think of it as a candle, if we're all candles, and you as the leader are the lit candle, how do you light the other candles? Because the first candle isn't diminished by lighting other candles? And yet, if you can serve others, if you can light their candle, then you have this multiplier effect with those on your team.
Amy Lynn Durham:Yeah, absolutely. And I think it goes all the way back to the beginning of our conversation with the self-awareness, starting there as a leader, the curiosity and the spirit of discovery for yourself, and working on having courageous clarity for yourself. So when your candle is shining, it's bright. And it catches all the other ones on fire. Because that energy spreads because you're operating from that higher leadership level space.
Phyllis Sarkaria:Yes. And at the same time, not assuming that everyone else has the same, you know, it's just like you. So it's important to keep that curiosity. So this worked for me, everyone else is unique. There will be other things that work for them. How do I help them have curiosity and be able to discover things about themselves so they can play to their strengths and be their best?
Amy Lynn Durham:Yeah, use their unique abilities to maybe take a different road, but get to the same destination that you're trying to get to? Yeah, really good. Well said. That always amazes me in our personal relationships, too, you know, it's like, let me take a step back here and let them do it their way, even though it's not the way I would do it, and fingers crossed.
Phyllis Sarkaria:It's funny to me, because the number of people who've told me that the tools in"Courageous Clarity" are helpful for relationships of any kind, not just at work. I've kind of lost track of that. But it's true, right?
Amy Lynn Durham:Oh, beyond that when the obstacle is the opportunity, I was totally thinking this so can be applied in your personal life, and personal relationships, too. So thank you for sharing that. I'm going to pull a journal prompt card for you. It's from my journal prompt card deck. We're gonna get a message from the Universe. The message is Going Within. And the affirmation is"I gift myself moments of solitude and retreat in order to be in harmony." And there are a couple of questions. I'm gonna go with the first one for you. What decisions do you need to make this week that will give you peace of mind?
Phyllis Sarkaria:Oh, wow. I love this thinking about solitude, retreat, harmony. So the biggest immediate decision I have is really, how I will focus. I'm working on a presentation for a conference. And where do I really want to focus the message to make the biggest impact? And so what that suggests to me is maybe stepping back so that I can have a little bit different perspective and kind of reflecting on it, rather than being in the middle of it, you know, deep in the weeds digging along, that I'm more likely to, to find the magic.
Amy Lynn Durham:Yeah. That's the message and for everyone listening, how can you go within and access your Higher Self, your inner wisdom, that inner truth to really get that message that you want to share? So, yeah, thank you. Thank you for sharing your magic with all of the Create Magic At Work listeners. Thank you for the gift of "Courageous Clarity". I know you've been so generous to offer three downloads of"Courageous Clarity". So I'm going to give all the details to the listeners at the end of the episode. In the meantime, if people want to connect with you, how can they reach out and connect with you?
Phyllis Sarkaria:Well, the best way is directly. Feel free to send me an email, which is Phyllis@sarkariagroup.com. Also, I have a website www.sarkariagroup.com. I'd love to hear from you.
Amy Lynn Durham:Perfect. Yes and make sure you get a copy of"Courageous Clarity", you will not regret it. We will put all of the information in the show notes as well. You can just click on whatever you need to as a listener, Phyllis, thank you once again for sending some magic to everyone today.
Phyllis Sarkaria:Thank you, Amy, thanks for the opportunity to talk with you about courageous clarity.
Amy Lynn Durham:Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you. Wow, I really enjoyed my conversation with Phyllis and my takeaways were, it starts with us. It starts with you. It starts with me with the self-awareness and really maintaining the spirit of discovery. And consciously going back to that when we're operating throughout our day. When the obstacle is the opportunity that was not lost on me, in our personal lives as well as in our career and in the workplace. Can we take a step back and pause and see that possibly the obstacle is the opportunity. Just her overall advice in the book "Courageous Clarity", and how it not only applies to leadership, but to our personal lives as well. I was just very impressed with it. I really hope you get a copy of Ccurageous Clarity. Phylli has been generous enough to offer three free downloads of her book. So I'm going to run a raffle if you just email me email amy@createmagic@work.net and tell me a little bit about the podcast or what you enjoyed in the episode or what you hated in the episode just give me your feedback. Or just say hi. You will be entered into a drawing to win a copy of Phyllis' book. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Create Magic At Work. I hope you leave this episode with some courageous clarity. Hi everyone, Amy Lynn Durham here. I really hope you enjoyed today's episode all the show notes and links can be found at www.createmagicatwork.net. I hope you come back often and make sure you subscribe, rate and review the podcast. Keep joining us for more exciting episodes where we help you transform workplace culture to systems that create less drama and stress and have high productivity and profitability. Please reach out to me on LinkedIn under Amy Lynn Durham, connect with me, and I hope we brought a little magic to your day sending magic to everyone. See you next time.