Avoiding the dentist is a reality with Cindi Green and Megan Gallant

In this episode of the Sensory Friendly Dentistry  Audio Conference join Sensory Friendly Solutions Founder Christel Seeberger, and guest hosts Stephanie London and Chelsea Bloom, occupational therapy students, as they take engage in an insightful conversation with two special guests, Cindi Green and Megan Gallant. 

Hear from Cindi Green, Executive Director of Autism Resources Miramichi, and parent Megan Gallant as they share insights about the simple steps that make the sensory experience of dental care a match for each patient and would empower parents to make oral hygiene possible.

Episode Guide:
0:00 - Welcome & Host Introductions
0:20 - Welcome Cindi Green and Megan Gallant
0:43 - Cindi Green - executive director at Autism Resources Miramichi
1:56 - Megan Gallant - Mother of four children
2:40 - Cindi discusses dentistry and the challenges for children with autism
4:20 - Barriers to the oral health care
5:47 - Megan shares her experiences with bringing her children to the the dentist
6:55 - The Impact of COVID-19
7:37 - Oral care at home
9:45 - Resources provided by Autism Resources Miramichi
12:51 - Megan shares what her daughters need to be set up for success
15:39 - Education & Awareness for staff
16:20 - Common misconceptions
20:00 - Megan discusses her children's sensitivities
21:00 - Cindi shares her own experiences at the dentist
24:28 - Megan's tips for other parents
27:08 - The social story
30:37 - Supporting siblings at the dentist
34:00 - Creating a trusting relationship
36:40 - Megan's hope for the future of sensory-friendly dentistry.
37:22 - Cindi's take-home message for listeners
39:16 Thank you, Megan & Cindi!

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Transcript

Chelsea Bloom: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Sensory Friendly Dentistry audio conference brought to you by Sensory Friendly Solutions, where we have important conversations about creating a sensory friendly dentist experience and environment. I'm your host, Chelsea Bloom. In today's episode, you will also hear the voices of co-host Stephanie London, my fellow occupational therapy student and friend, as well as Sensory Friendly Solutions founder and CEO Christel Seeberger. Our guests in this episode are Cindi Green, executive director at Autism Resources Miramichi, which offers helpful free resources to people with autism spectrum disorder, their families, community support workers and professionals. And Megan Gallant, who will share with us her experience as a parent of four children, two of which are autistic. Welcome, Cindi and Megan, it is so nice to have you both here with us today. To start off our conversation, Cindi, could you tell us a bit about yourself and your association?

Cindi Green: [00:00:48] Thank you, Chelsea. I've been in this role as executive director for four years, and in this capacity I've gained many skills and have had many opportunities to work directly with individuals who have autism, as well as be able to support their families. And we just offer a place that we can help provide guidance to all along the journey of autism. So we might have a family calling and say, my child might have autism, I'm not sure what to do. Or we might have a family call and say we just received the diagnosis, we're not sure what to do. Or my child is struggling in school, I'm not sure what to do. And we also provide many programs and services that cover a wide variety of ages. We have a summer social skills camp. We have an instructional autism swim program. We have a police registry. We have an employment skills program for adults. And we have, we also operate a social enterprise that sells secondhand books and employs adults who have autism. So it's quite a wide variety of services that we offer.

Stephanie London : [00:01:52] Perfect, thank you, Cindi, for your introduction. Now I'm going to ask Megan if you can go ahead and introduce yourself.

Megan Gallant: [00:02:00] Sure. My name is Megan Gallant and I live in Miramichi, New Brunswick. I've been at home for 10 years with my four girls, aged eleven, nine, seven and five, and have two children with special needs and autism as well.

Stephanie London : [00:02:16] Perfect, thank you Megan. So we're all here today. Now that we've introduced ourselves, I'll kind of explain the topic we're going to cover today. We're going to talk a bit about sensory friendly dentistry. So I'll start off with you, Cindi. I know you had told us that you've been working in your role at the Autism Center for about four years now. So I was wondering if you, I know you probably speak to a lot of parents of children with autism. So I was wondering if I know you offer summer social skills, swimming programs. I was wondering if whenever you spoke to the parents, if dentistry has been a topic of discussion before with these parents.

Cindi Green: [00:02:55] Thank you Stephanie. That's a great question. Yes. It's a highly discussed topic because of the sensory challenges that some people experience going to just to a regular checkup at the dentist. And I can empathize because I'm one of those people. It's really challenging sometimes to even just walk through the doors to sensory overload. And people with autism in general often struggle with being hyper hypo sensitive and sometimes both at the same time. So we can imagine the conflict that a person's individual might feel as they go into not only a sensory overload situation, but also an unknown situation. So helping to prepare a family in advance, whether it's with a social story or pictures or going to meet the dentist in advance, can really be helpful. But even just sitting in that chair for a practice or to talk about what they might experience while they're there. So, yes, lots of families have stated that their children have not been to the dentist because of those reasons, way beyond the years that we would typically expect the child to have a first checkup.

Chelsea Bloom: [00:04:09] To go off of what you were saying about the struggles associated with hypersensitivity, what do you think is one of the barriers that people within the autism community face when going to the dentist?

Cindi Green: [00:04:19] I think one of the barriers is the unknown aspect of what's going to happen in a new environment with new people. And that can cause a lot of anxiety. It can cause people to escalate to the point where they can't function. And also the sensory input that is experienced in that particular environment. The sounds, the smells and also the sensation that it's not touched but in your mouth when the dentist is doing their work and not even not just the dentist, but also the hygienist. It's heightened because it's in your head.

Stephanie London : [00:05:02] Yeah, exactly. Now, Cindi, you bring up a very good point. Also, when you talk about the mystery and things and I know our last podcast, we were speaking with Maureen Bennie, she kind of gave a suggestion is that the importance of of helping that sensory experience and bring a more positive experience is to take the mystery out of it and to take away that unknown, because I know you spoke a bit about that as being a barrier at going to the dentist, kind of it being unknown and a sensory overload situation. So it's definitely a trick to use this to kind of prepare your child and prepare that person to go to the dentist, like you said, putting pictures of a social story, meeting the dentist. Yeah, those are all very good suggestions that you mention. I kind of wanted to turn it over now to Megan. I know you said you have two children neurotypical and two with autism. I was wondering if you could describe a bit about their differences and going to the dentist and if you see a difference in terms of sensory challenges between the two.

Megan Gallant: [00:06:02] Yes, I've definitely noticed a difference. My older two have been able to attend regular checkups every six months. At ease. They're able to wait in the waiting room until their name is called. If there's distractions or other people, that's not a problem. And they're able to communicate their fears and their inhibitions with the dentist. And I think that gives them a sense of calm. They're able to kind of convey if they're scared, and then the dentist will respond. My younger two, my youngest has actually not ever been able to go to the dentist. He's five. And my seven year old has only been once. And it wasn't for, we couldn't get through an entire exam. She, I had to hold her in the seat. And then we counted her teeth to 10 and that was it. And we haven't been able to be back.

Chelsea Bloom: [00:06:55] Do you find that Covid has been a factor preventing your children from going back to the dentist, especially your five year old who has never went, and your seven year old who has only went once?

Megan Gallant: [00:07:05] I don't think Covid has necessarily been a factor. The only thing that's changed is that the younger two no longer want to leave the house. They've become so comfortable with staying in the house and we're not able to go anywhere else. So leaving the house has become that much more of a challenge as well, due to Covid.

Chelsea Bloom: [00:07:23] Ok, so it's, we previously discussed something about like setting up a routine and consistency of like going to the dentist often. But, so I guess for your older children, they're very comfortable with it. But your younger children haven't been able to establish that routine and like comfort with going to the dentist. So I guess. How do you like do the proper oral care with them, like at home, like is that easier?

Megan Gallant: [00:08:01] I don't think what we do at home is adequate. We do have to provide all the self care and brush their teeth for them every evening. But they do need to go to a dentist. We're not sure if they have cavities. We try our best, but we would love to be able to go and have a place where they can be checked just like the other girls.

Stephanie London : [00:08:22] So have you tried anything like any solutions that haven't worked and just kind of wondering your trial and error process or have you spoken with any dentists that have suggested anything to you to help with this situation?

Megan Gallant: [00:08:35] We haven't, usually if we're going to the dentist, we always like to inform them that we are bringing our child with autism and that if possible, we would like to have a little bit of a longer time frame so that they're able to be comfortable. And if we're in the waiting room, if we can not have to wait too long or if there are fewer distractions, that would be a big help. But we haven't been able to go regularly because Sophia. My seven year old has a lot of sensory issues, and she's a sensory seeker, but she's also quite sensory sensitive. So we need to set up that right environment for her.

Stephanie London : [00:09:08] And do you find that I'm not sure about your location, but do you find that there is a lack of dentists in your community in general?

Megan Gallant: [00:09:18] We do have quite a few dentistry offices here in Miramichi, none of which I would feel personally comfortable going, knowing that the younger two would have, they would have the right resources for my two younger children.

Stephanie London : [00:09:31] And so I actually have a question for Cindi in that case. Are there any resources that you offer to parents that could help in terms of allowing them to take those baby steps to be able to go to the dentist?

Cindi Green: [00:09:48] Yes, absolutely. We can help provide photos of the dentist that the family goes to. We might even arrange a visit for the dentist to meet the child outside the building, if that's necessary, to make it easier. We can also write a social story if that's appropriate for the child. We can do a video, go to the dentist office, take a video and narrate it and provide that to the family. We can. One thing I would suggest as well is to allow the child when the child is ready and the prerequisites are there to have the child enter the waiting room, go on a tour, I guess is the right way to say it and see the chair and see the instruments and catch them, if that's appropriate and allowed and it's appropriate for the child. So just those like a forward training process, I guess, in fading into dentist visit, if you will, to take those small steps to allow the child to experience what it will be like, to help ease that anxiety. And other ways to help reduce the sensory input, some calming activities, some some fidgets for the child, allow them to take their favorite comfort item no matter what it is. And headphones can also be helpful. And sometimes a TV, sometimes a dentist has TVs on the ceilings. That can also be helpful. So it really depends on what the person needs, like the individual, the patient, I guess.

Stephanie London : [00:11:26] You know, you bring up a lot of good tools that both parents and dentists can use to make this more of a positive experience, and again, bringing back our past podcast experiences, Maureen. She definitely highlighted the importance of creating this positive experience for people with sensory sensitivity to give them that positive experience, to want to go back to the dentist and all of these things that you're describing, the social story, the fidgets, the TV, all of these things are things that kind of Maureen spoke about having this sensory toolkit for dentists to have in the dental office. And so all these things that you're mentioning are things that dentists can take away to put into their sensory toolbox to create this positive experience for people living with sensory sensitivity.

Christel Seeberger: [00:12:12] Megan, I want to circle back to you just really based on Stephanie's observation and Cindi, all of those wonderful ideas you shared. Megan, you started, just you were talking a little bit about your children and one being, you know, a sensory seeker, but also hypersensitive, right? That sort of just that mixed where we're all very unique. Right. And we don't sort of fit in any one one bucket. And but I'd like to get your description right of what an ideal. What would really set your either one or both of your daughters up for success? What would that ideal dentistry practice look like from, you know, from even before you get there? I think you were you were thinking along those terms. And I just you know, I'd love for you to  paint a picture for our listeners about what that would look like for your children and you as their parent.

Megan Gallant: [00:13:11] Ok, well, I think the biggest thing is I would like to be able to discuss with the office a plan, kind of create a lot of preparation so that we can have that conversation over the phone or in person prior to the first visit. And perhaps we could also work in partnership with ARM, where we create that social story or those photos or those videos so that we can, you know, a week prior say, OK, we're going to the dentist. Let's watch this video of what you can expect when we're at the dentist and just having that video and that consistency each day. And say, OK, so this is what we're going to do, we're going to open the door and then we're going to sit on our seat. And so then we're going to wait until they call your name. And so once her name is called, OK, Sophia, let's go see the dentist and make it a very positive, very encouraging and have everyone at the office understand what's going on and what she might need. And if we're all positive, I think we can encourage her to sit in the chair by herself. And so when she's sitting there give her nice job, Sophia, sitting on your bum in the dentist's chair, offering her it, maybe she would like a little drink from that little magical, you press the button, the water comes out, give her a little cup of water.

Megan Gallant: [00:14:25] Sophia also benefits from a lot of singing so we could do little reinforcers. So first, Sophia, open your mouth for 10 seconds. Let's count those teeth and then we’ll sing Sophia a little song. And so if we quickly count her teeth and then we sing her that song, then she feels really good about herself and what she's done. And that will motivate her to continue to listen to the directions. And the first visit I would say, would keep quite minimal. Just do little basic things, no instruments in the mouth, maybe describe. You know what a certain tool is, something that you would use quite often say, Sophia, this is a. And then we tell her what the item is. And yes, Sophia, this is a. And that will be very beneficial, so the next time she comes, we have a little video of the different tools that we might be using that day. And I think that would be the best thing for her not to take too long. Not too many distractions are crowds. And I think if we continue with the video the next time, that would help if we're consistent, that she would eventually be able to go through an entire exam.

Cindi Green: [00:15:38] I would also highly recommend education and awareness for all the staff at the dental office, all the dental offices in general. I know there are some there is some level of awareness for people with sensitivities. I myself am one of those people. I need support when I go to the dentist. But some people, have need more support. And I think often there's a lot of misconceptions out there that y'all can't waste. She's just spoiled. So I think the education and awareness is crucial to making this successful for families.

Megan Gallant: [00:16:15] Yes, I couldn't agree more.

Christel Seeberger: [00:16:17] I think our listeners will want to hear what are the misconceptions that you think are out there that we need to pull the curtain back and go, hey, that's a myth. Here's the fact. Here's the reality. I'll start with you, Cindi, and then please, please chime in, Megan.

Cindi Green: [00:16:33] One of the biggest misconceptions that I've encountered is people who think they know about autism because they've met one person with autism. The first thing that we say in our sessions, if you've met one person and then you've met one person. So keep your mind open and learn about autism. It's not just Rainman.[1] And it's not just that child in the corner who walks back and forth and be aware of the sensory challenges that a person can be hyper and hypo at the same time. And I tell people, you don't need to memorize that. Just know that they're either seeking more or seeking less or both at the same time and just kind of using average terms. Use that person at the meeting who's always clicking the pen. That's an example of a sensory input. So to make it understandable and not use the scientific jargon and the lingo to help people really understand that. And we have adults that work in our store and we work hard not to feed those misconceptions. We try to set high standards. We try to we keep our store very neat and tidy. If somebody's here so that that's where the people with autism work, they might expect to see a mess or they might expect to to not be greeted. So we try to brush those on a daily basis.

Christel Seeberger: [00:17:55] Megan, do you have anything to add to that? Have you encountered any misconceptions about your girls and their journey with autism?

Megan Gallant: [00:18:04] Yes, I would say my girls are often very misunderstood. If you look at a photo, they look perfectly neurotypical. And so we always get the. Oh, wow. They must be very high functioning. And with my girls, you really need to spend a good five to 10 minutes with them before you realize. No, we really need to be making accommodations. And if they're not able to wait, they're really not able to wait. And if I say they need consistency or else they will not be able to function or complete the task. I'm not just saying that because, you know, I'm a parent and saying “oh, no, she needs.” They really need consistency to have that success. And with Sophia, if she's not looking at you in the eyes or if she's fidgeting with her string, it looks like she's not paying attention. But she really is listening and she may not communicate back to you the way you're asking a question. If you say, Sophia, did you have a fun time at the dentist? She will not answer you, but it's through her body language. The big smile on her face that you'll know that she had a great time.

Chelsea Bloom: [00:19:09] Thank you, Megan, for sharing that. And Cindi, Cindi, you mentioned how people have like these stereotypes or prejudices, but ideas of what someone, how someone with autism will act. And you kind of made it seem like it's completely different, which makes sense ultimately, because there's a spectrum there. So I think it ties into the idea of how each child or each person with autism is going to act differently. So they're all going to need different care and different accommodations made specific towards them. Megan, for you, you have four different children and their completely different behaviors, is there like any specific sensitivity, like specific to each of them, like your four children? What are they the most sensitive to?

Megan Gallant: [00:20:02] I would say. For Sophia, it would be crowds, too many people in one place, she will want to run to the bedroom or wander. My bigger kids, they can acclimate to new environments. My second would be loud noises. Her name is Eva. She's nine. She doesn't like loud noises. And Isabelle is just anything new. The youngest is five. So any new environment for her is tears.

Stephanie London : [00:20:29] Yeah, no, and I think that definitely highlights the fact that everyone is different and everyone is sensitive to different senses. I mean, we have eight senses, and it's important also as a parent and as a dentist to be able to identify when someone is sensitive and to what sense they're sensitive to, because that allows them to be client centered in their service. I had a question for Cindi, actually. I know you said that you needed accommodations for the dentist. What does your dentist do to make it a positive experience for you going there?

Cindi Green: [00:21:01] My previous dentist, who has retired, she would do her work very quickly, which helped ease my anxiety, got me out of this chair faster. She added extra freezing at my request. And for me, it's not the needle and it's not the chair. It's not the environment. It's the sensations that I feel when they work on my teeth. They're 10 times, I'm sure, what they are to the point where even just a cleaning is very difficult to tolerate. So, and I've adapted very well, most probably the last 10 years or so. I'm much, much easier for me to go now than it used to be. So I'm slowly getting used to it. And I know I'm not alone. I know there's many people who have a phobia of the dentist, but I don't really think it's a phobia. I think it's that sensory input that people have difficulty handling. And I would add one more component to the education aspect to Stephanie touched on about the eight senses. A lot of most people are not aware that we have eight. They're aware of the basic five that we learn in kindergarten, but the three extra ones are the three other ones. I think they're probably more important to know about than the five basic ones, because they're internal. And often people with autism have great difficulty with those. We have a twenty five year old young woman that works in our store, and she goes down the stairs one at a time with her hand on the wall. And it's not because she's clumsy, it's not because she's slow. It's because of that vestibular sense is not quite balanced for her. So I think that's a big part of the education.

Chelsea Bloom: [00:22:51] So, Cindi, you mentioned how one of the sensations that causes the most discomfort for you at the dentist is when they're working on your teeth. Is it more the tactile sensation or the sound that bothers you more?

Cindi Green: [00:23:02] It's it's three things. It's the tactile, the sound and the smell.

Chelsea Bloom: [00:23:07] Is there anything that you do personally to help make the experience better for you?

Cindi Green: [00:23:13] Yes, I try to book my appointments early in the morning, so I don't have to think about it all day. If it's going to be surgery, then I will take medication and have somebody drive me. And I just had a procedure done a couple of months ago. And I also listen to a podcast and a two hour procedure past like 20 minutes. So that was really helpful.

Stephanie London : [00:23:38] Yeah, I know. It's it's interesting that you talk about this, because it's also important for dentists and the general population to realize that these challenges are not only specific to people with autism and that by understanding the difficulties that people do go through at the dentist. I don't know if you knew this, but 33 percent of the population are likely to experience sensory sensitivity and sensory overload. So it's important that dentists realize that these small accommodations and these things that that help you, Cindi, or people with autism are also going to help the wider population because everyone has their difficulties when they go to the dentist. So that's definitely important. I had a question for Megan. I was just wondering, what if you were to suggest anything to parents out there who are struggling with their children? What is one tip you would give them to help their experience with the dentist?

Megan Gallant: [00:24:38] I think the biggest thing is making that phone call so often, it's easy to just put it off and say, you know, this might be very difficult for my child, but I'll just avoid it and do the best I can here at home. But at some point, that's just inadequate. You try your best, but they really do need to see that care. And so making that phone call and not being scared to discuss with your dentist what your child needs because you need your child, you know your child the best. And you can explicitly say, my child needs this. Perhaps ask him if they have a questionnaire that you could fill out or a little form that you could submit prior to going to the dentist so that they know exactly what your child needs to make the experience successful.

Chelsea Bloom: [00:25:21] And that's a really good idea and advice to give to both parents and dentists to be just more open to having that relationship with their future client to make it a more positive experience. So then I kind of wanted to go back a bit to when you were talking about like your kids. I know you mentioned how for Sofia that positive reinforcement and showing her what things would be, but you also mentioned a bit of that, like being busy and crowds and then for your younger daughter. Another one was about loud noises that would bother her and then anything new for Isabella. Do you think there's anything specific, like one thing specific that the dentist could do to like target those sensitivities?

Megan Gallant: [00:26:12] I think the biggest thing is perhaps reducing the sound or booking the children in at a time where it is least busy, perhaps in the morning, get them in, get them out. And I think that will be ideally the best thing that you could do for them if you reduce your music in the room, if there's not too much conversation going on. If the weight room is very quick, they're kind of west right in into their own little room, maybe provided with some headphones that can play a little bit of music. So they don't feel all of the sounds and around them as much. I think that would be extremely beneficial for both of the girls.

Stephanie London : [00:26:49] Yeah, so exactly that idea of having that sensory toolbox that that, again, can promote that that positive experience. Cindi, I was kind of interested and I was wondering if you could talk a bit about you mentioned a social story and how that could be a tool that parents could use. Could you talk a bit about the social story and what that would entail or how that would look like for dentistry?

Cindi Green: [00:27:15] Sure. A social story is an area tool from the child's perspective, and it talks about where I'm going, what's going to happen, and then kind of the follow up. It can be used for any situation. And the best way to write one is to have the real pictures of the event, the activity and the people. So it might start out and it can be tailored for the beauty of social stories as they can be tailored for any person of any age for any reason. And they can be written on the spot in the moment or they can be prepared ahead of time in a beautiful way. They're all very effective. They can also translate to cartoons for an older child or an adult. They can also translate to a video, a video story. So it would just start off very basic. I'm going to visit the dentist, my dentist name is, and then you have a picture. And you can also include a picture of what the building looks like outside the waiting room, the staff not to overload it. No, that's important to keep it simple and to the point and give it to the child. Read it with the child, give it to the child. Let them take it wherever they go, whether it's to bed or in the car or to the grocery store, because it can really help remove those unknown factors that can cause a lot of anxiety.

Stephanie London : [00:28:41] Yeah. No, I think that's great for for parents, a dentist to use. So I think dentists could also use kind of that social story idea on their websites or in the clinic, too. They could offer that as as a tool prior to their visit. But I think it's also very good in terms of that taking small baby steps. And you could maybe go through part of the story at once and have them and learn more about it and then continue long. So I definitely think that a social story, thank you for explaining is is definitely a good tool that parents and dentists can utilize in their in their practice.

Megan Gallant: [00:29:15] I just would like to add that it might even be beneficial if there's a dentistry website where you could just parents can go to the website and download the photos or download the video so that automatically they're for the kids. And what I would do, in addition to the video, which works extremely well for Sofia. She just went to her summer autism camp. And we've been watching the video every day. Three weeks into camp or so, watching the video, but also a little album with with photos. And you can have a picture at the front of the building and then you flip to the next photo once you walk through the door and then you flip to the next photo when you see a picture of the chair where you're going to sit and then flip when you do a picture, know waving to you or something like that or a photo in sequence. So that once you've done one task, you can flip that book to the next page, and that will give you the expectation of what's happening next.

Cindi Green: [00:30:07] Yeah, very similar to a visual schedule. Yes. You can also sing songs about going to the dentist.

Megan Gallant: [00:30:13] Definitely.

Chelsea Bloom: [00:30:17] So going off of what both of both of you said about kind of preparing yourself for this dentist visit, do you think it could be a good. I don't know. It's a bit difficult with Covid how they really only allow one patient to be back at a time. But do you think by having children with autism go watch their older siblings get the treatment or watch their parents get the treatment, could also help reinforce that comfort level like comfort level with the dentist?

Megan Gallant: [00:30:51] Most definitely. That would be the perfect opportunity to hold the child, say, look, Molly's in the chair, Molly's getting her teeth checked, or explain what's happening and what tools the dentist is using at that time. So it's right in front of them happening. OK, Molly had her turn and then the next time it's your turn. But they have a much greater under. The ending of what to expect and a kind of normalizes it for the child.

Chelsea Bloom: [00:31:16] And did you ever have the opportunity at your dentist to bring your kids to watch you do it?

Megan Gallant: [00:31:21] I'm sure had we asked. She would have given us the opportunity. It would have been an excellent choice. Generally, when we go places, we need one parent with one child. So, for example, we would need to bring myself, the two older children, and Sophia, one child with the special needs, if they're if we're all there as a family. It's too much of a distraction.

Stephanie London : [00:31:46] I have a question for both Cindi and Megan. It's kind of a broader question, but I was just wondering what you think needs to change in terms of perspective and the dentistry community. Like what do you think dentists need to work on kind of at the ground level to be able to provide more of these sensory friendly solutions to their patients and their clients?

Megan Gallant: [00:32:12] I think one of the biggest things is just being responsive and accommodating to all of the different needs, whether your child is neurotypical or neuro diverse. If you are accommodating those needs, it will be a much more positive experience for everyone.

Cindi Green: [00:32:26] And I really like how Megan talks about a plan. The dentist, the family and a community autism resource center can work together as a team to have a conversation before the first appointment, maybe even leading up a few months before the first appointment. And what will work specifically for that child or that individual? That's where the parents come in. And the specific office of the dentist and then a community center or an autism resource center can help provide those strategies and make those materials and work together as a team.

Stephanie London : [00:33:00] So I definitely think that we were also talking in our last podcast too, on top of those things is the importance of building a trusting relationship with your clients and your patients. And at bottom level, you need your clients and your patients to to understand what you're saying and trust the relationship between the two. Because, again, that'll make the experience more comfortable. I wanted to touch a bit on Cindi, you mentioned like it's a team effort, so we have we have the the dentist or the orthodontist or the dental practitioner and their whole their staff, their secretary, the dental hygienist. And you also have the parents and the children. What do you think besides trust? Because we already just discussed that trust is a big part. What are some other important characteristics of like this relationship to make the experience better?

Cindi Green: [00:33:56] That's a great question. I think it's really important for anyone who interacts with a family, whether there's autism there or not, to know and realize that the family knows the child's best. And that family is is they're the ones who love that child the most in the world. So they're the ones who who are going to make the decisions for that child as well. And being open minded to get to know the family and being open minded, to be willing to make adjustments, accommodations, modifications. Maybe the child's first dental visit takes three or four visits and that needs to be OK.

Chelsea Bloom: [00:34:36] Yeah, I think that's a really good point that you brought up and coming from a parent's perspective. Megan, what do you think is one of the key characteristics or key factors in that relationship?

Megan Gallant: [00:34:49] I think the biggest thing is knowing that we really are all working together and we all have different roles. So I will bring my child and I will support my child and help mitigate behaviours or make things comfortable. And just knowing that the dentist will have that patient patience for my child and kind of make different changes or accommodate based on the needs and be OK with my child might run off out of the seat a few times and we'll just casually say, no, no, no, let's go back in the seat. We'll sit down with the dentist. So just taking that extra time and knowing that we'll all have our roles and we'll work together.

Cindi Green: [00:35:26] I think, too, on the education and awareness aspect, it's about expectations. Some people, most people have certain expectations when it comes to children of certain ages. So we expect four and five year olds to be taught or trained, for example. We expect seven, eight year olds to be able to wait a certain amount of time, for example, and so on and so on. And with children with autism don't always meet those expectations or those milestones as closely as their neurotypical peers. And I think that's really key. And I think also comes along with that is believing in the potential of the children that they will reach those milestones. It just might be at a different point.

Christel Seeberger: [00:36:09] Lovely. What a just, wonderful. Again, it's it's the things that are uncovered in these conversations, I sort of say to inform education and awareness. Cindi and Megan, you've given so many, so many excellent examples of things that parents and dentists, dental teams, dental practices can do together. I want to give you one last opportunity, just anything sort of your your wish. Both of you for dental practices, for parents to inspire them. Your hope, right. What is what is your number one hope for the future of sensory friendly dentistry that meets the needs of people going to the dentist? Megan, what would that be?

Megan Gallant: [00:37:02] I think it would just be that positive, inclusive environment where parents feel comfortable contacting the dentist and taking their children and knowing that despite their behavior, they're going to be accepted and that they're going to be able to have that exam and to be taken care of. Lovely.

Christel Seeberger: [00:37:17] Thank you, Megan. Cindi, do you have anything that you would like to leave listeners with to inspire them on this journey?

Cindi Green: [00:37:27] Thank you for including me on this journey has been phenomenal so far. I think it's important to me to remember and realize that this can impact more than just dentistry. It can impact everything. And you think about the holistic aspect of a person, not just a child. It it's the modifications, inclusiveness and accommodations can be done anywhere for any reason. So huge potential here. I would just add is a huge thank you to Megan for sharing your very personal experiences and realizing the impact that that can make. On this big old world,

Christel Seeberger: [00:38:09] Thank you, Cindi. Any last words, Stephanie or Chelsea?

Chelsea Bloom: [00:38:15] Thank you for sharing this knowledge, it's really interesting to get it from a different perspective, especially from a parent who has not who has multiple children and each child has had a different experience. And also to have like a more a better insight into what different what resources we could provide to better help this transition and getting a child to go to the dentist and having a better experience. Yeah, I just wanted to say thank you to the both of you. I think the more conversations I have on this topic, the more I learn more perspectives and more ideas and more struggles that people face every day. And again, Cindi, I like the idea that you say it doesn't just impact this. It's it's a holistic approach and it can be translated to so many different things. And I think it's just like really enriching thing for us to be able to have these conversations with you guys. And and thank you for taking the time. Thank you to Cindi Green, executive director at Autism Resources, Miramichi, and Megan Gallant, a parent of four children, for sharing with us their insightful thoughts and ideas on what needs to happen for dentistry to become truly sensory friendly. We heard Cindi speak about the resources that they offer at her center, her own experience and accommodations at the dentist, as well as ideas on what can help, such as a social story.

Stephanie London : [00:39:41] These accommodations are also discussed in another episode with guest Laura Swinburn, a dental hygienist who shared with us what she does to make clients feel more comfortable, such as using a weighted vest or providing the choice between different flavored toothpaste. We also heard from Megan, who provided us with some thoughts for reflection, such as the challenges that she faces as a mother and that her children face when going to the dentist. We were shocked to hear that her five year old child has yet to visit the dentist, which really emphasizes the magnitude of this problem and how important sensory friendly dentistry is for people. Reflecting back on what Megan and Cindi said, it really made us see the reality that barriers exist to dental care and many are due to lack of sensory accommodations. So thank you again to Cindi and Megan for your knowledge and your time. We are very lucky to have had the opportunity to discuss these difficult but necessary topics of conversation and hope that you, our listeners, are enjoying and learning a bit more about sensory difficulties and the dental environment, as well as strategies to be able to create a positive experience for those living with sensory challenges. Stay tuned for more rich conversations. Have a sensory friendly day. You could find more information about creating a sensory friendly dental practice on our website, sensoryfriendly.net

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