Navigating Motherhood and Breaking Stereotypes

Jen shares her inspirational journey as a new mother navigating the world of single motherhood by choice, touching on themes of societal expectations, financial considerations, and emotional resilience. Her reflections highlight the importance of personal choice in defining one’s family narrative and the lessons learned from both heartache and joy. 
• Jen's journey begins with a pivotal doctor's appointment that prompts her to reconsider motherhood 
• Financial readiness plays a crucial role in the process of assisted reproduction 
• Emotional challenges linked to fertility treatments and the importance of processing grief 
• Jen’s values and the input of family in her decision-making reflected in choosing a donor
• Hope for the future includes openness to relationships and possibilities of more children

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Chapters

• 0:44 Creating a Family of Her Own
• 14:39 Choosing a Donor and IVF Process
• 25:35 Navigating Single Motherhood and Family Dynamics
• 32:50 Embracing the Journey of Motherhood

Transcript

Ann: 0:45

This is Define the Narrative podcast. I have been trying to get my next guest to sit for an interview for a while actually, and I don't know what happened this time, but I'm so grateful that Jen decided to sit for the interview this time. Jen is a new SMBC, or only parent, or she's defined the narrative to create a family of her own. And so, jen, thank you, welcome to Define the Narrative podcast.

Jenn: 1:45

You're welcome. You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

Ann: 1:49

Absolutely so. First of all, you're you actually are a new mom and you have twins. How are they doing and how old are they?

Jenn: 1:58

They are doing well. They will be four months on the 8th of April.

Ann: 2:03

That's a beautiful age. They'll be cutting teeth before you know it, yes, so let's get started, and I'll start from the beginning. Do you remember the first time you had the idea of creating a family of your own?

Jenn: 2:25

you had the idea of creating a family of your own. Yes, I do. Actually, I was seeing my gynecologist and she had mentioned to me one last time. She was saying you know, whatever you're doing about putting motherhood on hold, you might want to start making a move, because I had some recent health issues and and she was saying, okay, I know you've been putting it on hold. And she was like you might want to, you know, start making certain moves. And I was like, oh, okay, okay, I hear you. Now I hear you. She had been saying it for a while, but I'm like I'm going to ignore you this time. I started to listen to her.

Ann: 2:59

And so, when you, when you had that moment, what feelings surfaced?

Jenn: 3:05

Um, well, I'll say this I wouldn't say every girl, but most girls have that idea in their mind where, you know, you grow up, you meet somebody, you fall in love, you get married, you know things like that. So I kind of had that in mind and and for some reason I thought like okay, by the time I'm 32, I'll, you know, be married, I'll have a house, I'll probably be finished having kids or at the very least have one, and by this time I think I was about 31. And I'm like I don't think this is going to according to plan, like I originally thought, and, you know, I might want to start thinking about other avenues.

Ann: 3:49

Were any of those feelings, doubts that you had, because I know like for me, I had been in a relationship for five years and it was my first real relationship. So I truly, truly loved this person and I was like you. It was marriage, the house, the family, and for me a lot of my feelings were centered around my ability to find a relationship and I connected it to my self-worth. So I've done a lot of work on that, but did you did? Did some of the feelings come up where they were? They related to kind of the ability to find a relationship, or did you feel pretty solid, like you know what, like they're not showing up, they're not coming into my life, the ones like I know what I'm supposed to have and it's not happening?

Jenn: 4:46

I think it was a little bit of the latter and and a lot of thinking that I didn't want to just find somebody or rush into a relationship just for the sake of becoming a mother. You know you can ignore all the red flags to become a mother and then somewhere down the line it kind of bites you in the butt. I didn't want it to be one of those situations. You know you kind of wanted to be in the relationship for the right reasons, you wanted to feel right, so to speak. I totally kind of motivated my, my move a little bit.

Ann: 5:23

I totally, I totally agree with that, because when that relationship fell apart, when I had to have a conversation with my mother, I said look, I basically, you know, have 18 months to meet somebody. And I said that's not enough and my biggest fear was divorce. So I completely understand that. So from that point you had that doctor's appointment. How much time elapsed from that moment before you actually had that moment where you had made the decision and said this is what I'm going to do?

Jenn: 5:57

When you sit back and think about it, I think it was very short. I had that conversation, I would say, april, and then September, october Fairly quick, a few months. I was starting to put the pieces together and you know, I know it's a big financial cost so of course you know, so to speak, trying to get your ducks in a row. So I was working through that and and try to see how that fit in my current lifestyle and what changes I need to make going forward.

Ann: 6:33

So financial issues were kind of the first thing.

Jenn: 6:38

Did you do research? I did. I've done somewhat little bit of research, searched online, because at first I thought it would be just very simple. The route I went was purchasing donor sperm. So I was thinking like, okay, purchase donor sperm, do assisted reproduction called IUI, and I thought it would be very straightforward. It wasn't until later on, when you check your fertility and things of that nature, I need extra steps which require extra funding. So it took a little bit longer than what I originally anticipated.

Ann: 7:12

So you got your finances in order and without divulging your financial records, because for me it was like I'm not ready, and then someone said and you're never ready.

Jenn: 7:24

And I go on.

Ann: 7:26

The you'll figure it out as you go Is that kind of where you were. It's like, okay, I got this, but then we'll figure the rest out.

Jenn: 7:32

It was kind of half Okay. I got this pretty much figured out and then the other parts. I'm like I'll figure it out as I go along. I'll work around it. You know, I'll have plan A, b and C, and if A doesn't work out, we still have B and C to work with.

Ann: 7:47

Yes, I totally get that. That's actually very, very similar to what I had, and mine too included. And what if I don't get pregnant? Because for me I had a certain amount of money and I knew that at the end of that and I did think through it. Did you think through what if I exhaust all of my financial resources and you know that you still want to be a mother? Did you think things like you could adopt if you couldn't have a child yourself or conceive a child yourself?

Jenn: 8:20

I would say I thought about it, but not too much. I would say I was a little bit naive. I had the notion that, okay, I do it once, everything will work out 100%. I didn't really too much think about the what ifs. Other friends that I talked about with they did bring up the topic but I was like it's going to work. The first time I do it, everything will be fine. I don't have to worry about that option, you know, and if I do I'll worry about it. Then that was my, you know my thought process about it.

Ann: 8:53

I think that's a really good for me. I did a lot. I thought everything through before I did it and I think it's more of.

Ann: 9:00

I just wanted to know, like even the worst case scenario, I just wanted to know, even though there was a lot of like I don't have the answer for this, but I think, in terms of of the creating of a family, um, it was preparing myself for worst case scenario.

Ann: 9:16

Um, did you? And so just um, it sounds like you didn't have this thought, but how and this isn't a question I gave you, but I'm going to throw this out there how adamant were you inside of you? Because I'm just remembering now, I did a lot of soul searching and some of the criticism not feedback, however you want to call it that I got was um, why don't you adopt? However you want to call it that, I got was why don't you adopt? And I had to do a lot of soul searching about the fact that I wanted to at least attempt to have a child that I gave birth to, that was genetically related to me. Now, at the time I was trying to get pregnant, egg donation was so new. In fact, freezing of eggs was not even as safe and viable as it is now. Did you check in with yourself about how adamant you were about wanting to have a child, or have a child that was genetically yours.

Jenn: 10:20

I didn't really think about it too much but I was very adamant about having a child, that it being biologically linked to me, because when I first went into it I didn't have any that I knew of fertility issues. It was as I went through the process. Then I'm discovering other things and then also the brief little period I did look into adoption. It was the cost. You know it's a high cost, is even more than the route that I did go and I'm like this is completely out of the question for me.

Ann: 10:54

It is interesting how you find that, you know, some things are more expensive, even if they seem like they're an option financially. Finances are a huge obstacle, you know, and I see a lot of people who use surrogates and I'm like I just wouldn't, you know, I just I wouldn't have been able to access that. So there's an equity issue in that.

Jenn: 11:19

So the technical part, the finances, because usually you know me, and the thing is, if I'm bringing something to you very serious, I've probably done worked out all the kinks. I've really thought about the what ifs, the this and the that. My family did question a bit because they knew about some of my health issues but they didn't know everything. So once I started going through the process and explaining to them well, because I did IVF so they were like well, why do you have to do IVF? Well, it's because these issues, these certain health issues. So whether I'm in a relationship or not, I still would have had to do IVF as well.

Ann: 12:21

And so, in terms of you creating a family of your own, that wasn't an issue, it was more of why, and so why are you choosing to do it the way you're doing it? Right and so no?

Jenn: 12:32

judgment, no, no judgment. And because I more or less would be kind of the first one in the family who's done IVF. So it's just more of the unknown. What is that? What does that entail? They've heard about it and it requires a lot of medication, but they didn't really know all the details.

Ann: 12:49

So they were more concerned about your physical health and your medical health in terms of you creating a family of your own.

Ann: 12:57

They were fine with that no feedback or questions. That's really good, because I I there's a lot of judgment and a lot of people that receive that judgment, and I think one of the defining moments for me was when I knew and I had gone to visit my mother, who was my best friend, and there was a long three hour drive back from the beach in Alabama to new Orleans, where I had to, you know, have that conversation and I had to say I completely understand where you're coming from and I need you to understand that I have to make this decision. So I think it's really great that you had the support of your family and your friends to create the family. It sounds like it was more about why are you doing things that cost a certain way or why are you going about it in a certain way. So you decided you were going to do it and did you. So you started with did you use your OBGYN or did you go to a reproductive endocrinologist?

Jenn: 13:56

I went to a reproductive endocrinologist because certain things were covered in with insurance and wasn't, and I was just learning about the process. There's a lot of things I paid for out of pocket that I probably wouldn't have paid for if I knew, you know. So I learned a lot of things. That's what led me to IVF. I went to one reproductive endocrinologist and then I had to switch to another one due to cost, of course, and doing all this, I did this like right before COVID hit, so that through a lot of things had a lot of things have to be delayed because, you know, with COVID everything pretty much stopped.

Ann: 14:40

So what recommendations would you and you're in the southeast United States what recommendations would you give in terms of someone who is made the decision? I have the pot of money that I have. I know, first of all, know what your insurance does and does not cover. What recommendations would you give in terms of looking for the right doctor? Anything?

Jenn: 15:04

Recommendations, even with now, with the changes in laws and everything I would definitely say make sure you know your insurance, know what state you live in, because certain laws may apply to you, certain things may not. You may have to go out of state. I mean, I actually went to my clinic I went to was located in New York, so that meant traveling quite a bit for me every time I wanted to have a procedure done and just knowing how that will fit into your lifestyle. You know finances are a big part, but once you have the finance piece all the way, you know your health status.

Ann: 15:42

It's pretty straightforward from there, and so you looked for the doctor who was able to offer. Was it the price that you were looking at? Was it how you felt about their approach? What was it that made you choose finally choose the doctor that you were looking at? Was it how you felt about their approach? What was it that made you choose, finally choose the doctor that you chose?

Jenn: 15:59

The clinic I chose was CNY Fertility. So first, of course, the cost, because that is one of the things they put out there, that they're lower cost than most clinics. And then also, after that, the doctors, the methods. Every clinic does different protocols. They're pretty much the same, but everyone has differences, so that was another thing that I went with as well.

Ann: 16:24

Very good. Yeah, I actually found my reproductive endocrinologist had a cash offering and it was. It felt like I mean this was 2000. When did I start 2010. So it was like a cash rate for one whole cycle, cause I had never tried to get pregnant, I had never gotten pregnant, and so it was per month for all of the appointments and everything. There was a flat rate. And then if, if and when I became pregnant, there was what was included. After that and when you went to go look for your donor, one of the biggest questions I get when people find out that I conceived my son using donor sperm is how did you decide which one? What was? What was the process? How did you decide which one?

Jenn: 17:13

What was the process, like the process I did, was I said I would pick five and I picked those five and the main thing for me was health. Luckily, when I went to the previous clinic, they suggested that I do genetic testing to find out if your carrier is certain conditions. Well, I did so that narrowed down which donors I would choose, and then from there I guess you could say vanity issues like, okay, some of them they had adult pictures, some of them that children, childlike pictures. So I would probably at that point pick someone. Okay, could you see yourself with this person? Would this be someone that you possibly may date? And then I kind of went from there and I showed it to friends and family and I'm like, hey, frank, one through five, which one would you choose, you know? And then, whatever one was the highest one, that's what I went with.

Ann: 18:09

Oh, so you let you, let the folks that you care, that your, your extended family, help you choose. Yes, that's awesome. So you mentioned genetic testing. So you had genetic testing yourself and then did you have the sperm genetically tested or you just went from what you knew.

Jenn: 18:26

I just went off of myself and I went from there.

Ann: 18:30

And then you mentioned that some of the donors, they had pictures Did you get? Is it anonymous or willing to be known? Known at 18. Okay so that's what I got. I got willing to be known and I actually got videos. Did you get videos? Not?

Jenn: 18:47

with the donor I chose. There wasn't videos, but there was some of them that had adult pictures, and then, of course, they had the childhood pictures as well.

Ann: 18:55

Yeah, I got childhood pictures, I got adult pictures and and I got video and it's interesting that you mentioned that. Can I see myself dating? What really got me was when I saw the video and I said, because I had a, my brother, I have a half brother that we didn't know about and I met as an adult and the mannerisms that are hereditary, it freaked us out. So I was like, if your child has these mannerisms, is it going to annoy you? And when I looked, when I looked at his donor, I was like I got it. I got it.

Ann: 19:31

So it's interesting that the different ways that we think about what our children will be like and how we can choose that donor. So you chose willing to be known donor and for those that don't know and you can add on, but for mine, anytime after my son is 18, he, the donor, has agreed to at least one in-person meeting and all he has to do is contact the sperm bank. I have no right to that meeting. And is that pretty much what your agreement is? Same here? Yes, and in your mind, did you have any thoughts about like you chose willing to be known for a reason? What were your thoughts about why you wanted to have that option for your child or your children.

Jenn: 20:22

I at least felt that they may have questions when they're older and they want to know, at least biologically, where they came from, and I won't be able to answer those questions, but at least this person may be able to answer those questions as well.

Ann: 20:37

Yeah, For me it was with my half brother. I asked him, I said what are some of the things? And I actually asked other people that had conceived their children using anonymous donor, and I think part of it was just wanting to be able to see biologically where you come from and being really clear that you know for my son, this is not your father. However, this is genetically where you come from, and giving them that power and knowing that there's different stages in life where they just want to know that and that if they don't want to, they don't have to have a lot of friends that are adopted and they have no interest in seeking their parents. So, um, okay, and so then you started the process. You're going back and forth to New York city. Um, how long from the time you first, like the first time you tried? So you started with IUI. How many IUIs did you go through before you moved on to IVF?

Jenn: 21:39

Okay, Well, I didn't even get a chance to do IUI because at the previous clinic we did some testing and found out that both my tubes were blocked. So at that point it was like you might as well just go to IVF, don't even waste your time. I was like, makes sense, you know, you know? Because I was thinking like, okay, well, if they're blocked, can I do another surgery. And they are explaining the whole process Like you shouldn't even waste your time doing another surgery, just go directly to IVF. And then they started explaining the process While it's more expensive, but on the back end it's less expensive, the whole process. And I was like, okay, it makes sense, now I just have to find out, or?

Ann: 22:24

figure out the financial piece of it. Right, that's a big one. And and were you able to? How many harvests did you have to go through?

Jenn: 22:32

Luckily only one. I was able to get enough embryos created with the one to do a couple attempts, because it did take a couple attempts to get my babies there.

Ann: 22:43

Okay, so you went through the process and you had your embryos and then how many? How many attempts did it take before you got pregnant? Five, they were the fifth transfer temps did it take before you got pregnant? Five, they were the fifth transfer for me, and were they the last one before you would have to do another harvest, or did you have more embryos?

Jenn: 23:01

I still have embryos left.

Ann: 23:03

Very good. So from the time you started, you made the decision, you had your first trip to New York, so we'll take the first doctor out. But once you started with your doctor, from that time to the time, or from the first time you had an insemination to the time you got pregnant, what was the time lapse? I would say about four and a half years. Four and a half years A long time. Yes, did it feel like longer?

Jenn: 23:34

Actually, no, it felt like it fly by, but when you sit back and think about it it's like wow, four years. I mean, granted, we did go through a pandemic and a lot of that four year period was waiting and you know, along with finances, I wanted to pay off certain things before I would go into another transfer, so that delayed some of my transfers as well.

Ann: 23:58

So it wasn't so much like you were trying every single opportunity. There were some other factors that stretched the time out yes, and I did conceive IUI. So for IVF cycle in terms, because I know there's a longer prep, what's the cycle phase in an IVF for an implantation?

Jenn: 24:22

Okay, so well, I would say everyone's different. I would say for me it was roughly about two weeks. You know, you get your monthly cycle. You call the clinic, say, hey, this is the first day of my cycle. You come in for what's considered baseline. They do some labs to make sure your follicles look good, everything else look good, and then they give you a list or a protocol of medications you have to take every day. Within that two week period you're at least coming in, I would say, two to three times, for blood work, check, ultrasounds, things of that nature. And they will also, towards the end of that two-week period, give you a date on which you're going to do a frozen embryo transfer.

Ann: 25:04

So it's within a regular cycle. It's not something extended Because from what I've heard and read, it's all the different things that they try to do. Maybe that's more on the harvest end. So it's within a regular monthly cycle.

Jenn: 25:20

Right For the transfer. Now, if you're harvesting, yeah, it does take a little bit longer, but just transfers is very simple, straightforward, roughly, I would say, two weeks. Maybe at most Some people might be longer, but for me it's been roughly two weeks.

Ann: 25:35

And so now you have two babies, and what is the narrative that you have created for your family?

Jenn: 25:43

The narrative I would say is I'm a mother trying to raise two children who happens to just be single. That's what it is for me.

Ann: 25:53

And how will you? What are you? What thoughts have you had about teaching your children about how they were created and about your family, knowing that there's traditional family out there, the narrative that they're going to be faced with, that they don't necessarily have that same narrative. What thoughts do you have about how you're going to approach that?

Jenn: 26:17

Thoughts I thought about. That is that there are multiple types of families out there. There are some that are just mothers, only fathers, only two mothers, two fathers. Different variations. There are multiple families out there, but no matter what family there is out there, love is love. You know you're not going to be loved any less than anyone else out there.

Ann: 26:42

Yep, and for me it was also very easy because I would just say, well, this is our family. Just the same way you don't have a sister, you don't have a brother, like our family is our family and this is what we do have. I will just give a shout out someone else that I've been trying from the beginning to sit for an interview. I love Todd Parr and his books, and we have many of them, and the family book is one of my absolute favorites. It basically encapsulates everything that you just said. So if you, if you haven't found his, his books, If you haven't found his books, that's one that I would recommend. So here's one that I you know a lot of. My focus is equity in the world. As a Black woman, what obstacles, prejudice, stereotypes do you feel that you faced in creating a family of your own, or did you feel that you faced any of them?

Jenn: 27:37

I know about the stereotypes out there. I really haven't faced any as of yet. I would say I know the existence is that, you know, single Black female has children, things of that nature has children, things of that nature, but a little different narrative. You know, we go about creating our families differently. So just being cognizant of the stereotypes out there and explaining to those who just may not know about what's actually going on, yeah, that's.

Ann: 28:14

That's actually true. There's an intentionality to it, right that you've thought it through. So who's your shero in the single mothers by choice world? Do you have one?

Jenn: 28:34

when I was starting to go through the process, because you always want to see someone that looks like you going through the process, so you're not alone. I mainly looked at a lot of videos from Tamika TTC and simply Tanika. Like every time they posted the video on YouTube I would sit there and watch, because you know they went there before you and you see them going through the process, so you're not out there feeling like you're alone as well.

Ann: 29:00

Absolutely and very inspiring to see, see it all transpire right. It's like yes, yes, we will get there. And who has been your biggest support in this process?

Jenn: 29:13

Okay, my biggest support, like I say to my family, but surprisingly, I would say, my younger brother. He's three and a half years younger than me and when I told him like hey, I'm going to go through this process, and once he and it's constantly reminding me, you know you would think that they're his kids, you know he questioned me like what are they doing? He sends them like educational things. I'm very shocked, like very surprised.

Ann: 29:52

He takes his job of being an uncle very seriously. Yes, he does Were you all best friends before you started this process.

Jenn: 30:01

We were close, but I think with the kids being here, we've become even closer. I think that's amazing.

Ann: 30:08

That's really good. Okay, so you're a mom now, and a mom of two. My goodness, that's a big one. What is the biggest surprise about being a mom? My goodness, that's a big one. What?

Jenn: 30:17

is the biggest surprise about being a mom. Biggest surprise, I would say, is I mean just learning from them and watching them grow. And you know, every mom says that you know but to to go from zero children to two and you watch them grow and learn every day and all you can do is sit back and laugh and watch and it's like just a few months ago it was just me and now I have you guys to be considering and it's just amazing. It really is.

Ann: 30:52

And they change so fast.

Jenn: 30:54

Like every single day they change.

Ann: 30:58

What's been your biggest struggle of being a new mom? I know there are a lot, but if you think of like what you know and it could change right, you're still early on. But when you think about these last four months, what's been your biggest struggle?

Jenn: 31:13

I would say going back to work and trying to fit in your work schedule with balancing with being there for your children. You know, before I had the children, I could say that I work, work, work. Where do you find me at work, doing extra overtime, things of that nature? Now I'm like I have to, you know, cut back on it so I make sure I spend more time with them, because you know, when I go to work I do miss them. You know I find myself, you know, calling them throughout my work day like, hey, how are the babies, what are they doing? Can I FaceTime them? Cause you know you miss them. You go from, you know, maternity leave where you spend like 24, seven with them to like, okay, I'm gone a big chunk of the day and I kind of miss them.

Ann: 32:03

Yeah, yeah, no, I know, I, I, um, yeah, I. My son was five and a half months when I went back to work and it was, I think, the best five and a half months of my life. And it's okay when they sleep so much. I really struggled when he was awake more, because then you're like, okay, well, by the time I get home he goes to sleep at six o'clock, so I literally see my child for this small period of time. So you try to eke in all of those joys and those struggles and the weekends, right. So when you reflect on the process of getting pregnant, what differences do you notice about your feelings while in the process versus looking back on the process now that you have a family? And I want to give some context for me.

Ann: 32:51

I, from the first time that I started trying to get pregnant until I actually got pregnant. It was only six months. The roller coaster for me because I went through IUI. The roller coaster for me. I had two failed IUIs, a change in medicine. But the third time I was a mess on day three when I went to get the examination and I was diagnosed with poor ovarian reserve and I thought it was over. I was trying to donate my last file of sperm. I was like, okay, now I go on a cruise with my mother, I'll adopt, I can get my finances in order for another five or six years.

Ann: 33:31

And so for me there was a lot of emotion that just it felt like an eternity and that it was never going to happen. Once I was pregnant and I knew the pregnancy was going to hold. When I looked back I was like, oh my gosh, it was only six months. It felt like it could have been six decades. When you look back, when you finally were pregnant and you knew like this is really happening and four and a half years is a long time and a global pandemic too how did it feel when you looked back on it? Did you feel like you were losing? Because I watched you and I was just like I wish I could tell people like just don't give up, like keep going. I know it seems hard. How did it feel looking back versus the way you felt in the moment?

Jenn: 34:18

Looking back, I would say once I got out of the first trimester and I was able to look back, like you stated, you know, keep going, take time out if you need to grieve. You know and I think that was a part of the big gaps why it took me so long I think if I went head first into another transfer right after a loss emotionally I probably would not be ready. That's one thing I will tell people. You know, take the time out, do the necessary work for you. If that means, hey, you need two weeks out, two months or two years, do that. Those are the things that I look back and notice, because with each transfer I had early miscarriages.

Jenn: 35:06

So with one of them that I remember clearly, I went back to work and I didn't do the necessary work to deal with the grief process. I was fine as long as I was going to doctor's appointments trying to figure out what was going on. But once I got past that and I had to deal with emotions and certain questions, I was a total mess. Like I went to work, someone asked me what if you never had children? It's a simple question in itself, but at that moment I burst into tears because I didn't do the necessary work needed to deal with that. I can say that now that's fine, but back then, no, I was not ready to deal with that question. So I would say, once you get past the emotions behind it, deal with whatever you need to deal with. It's a great thing. It's a wonderful thing Pregnancy you get to see the changes in your body. It's great, it's beautiful. But definitely do the necessary work, because your emotions will be on a roller coaster.

Ann: 36:20

Yeah, and the hormones don't help. That you bring up a really important point because for me, I I didn't deal with a miscarriage, mine was, I was never getting pregnant. I should have invested in pregnancy tests, for, for women who do experience a miscarriage, it's, it's, it's a, it's a terrible trick, right To say here you are, your body's doing it, you you made it and then it's not there. So I just wanted to mark that that work to you know, again, it's this journey. It's easy once you're there to go. Oh, yeah, sure, keep going. Someone's listening and they're like well, that's fine for you, jen and Ann, because you now have kids.

Ann: 37:04

There are folks out there who they attempted it. They had miscarriages or never got pregnant and they got to the end of their finances. However it is, we all have to know what we have to try to create a family in the way that we want before we go on to the next plan. But knowing that you're at different kind of aspects of biology, um, like I'll never forget the the time that I got pregnant, I had one, one egg, and I was like I'm doing this so that I can say I did it, and my doctor was like well, I hope the sperm and the egg get along, but you know it only takes one and it was my last attempt.

Ann: 37:45

You know there's all these things that you have to emotionally process what it means to you. Some people it may not hit in the same way, so I wanted to mark that and thank you for bringing that up. That we all have to process and the hormones that we're dealing with. To that it's your journey and and we have to process joy and grief and suffering, but where there's suffering there's joy to come forward. So thank you for sharing that. Thank you for sharing that.

Ann: 38:16

So I think my last question is and you've kind of touched on it how do you balance your life? Does the possibility of having a partner around or having more kids ever swim around in your head and do you think about how this family that you've created and knowing that you know you're now responsible in all the ways for it, how do you think about moving forward, knowing you are still a woman, you're not dead on the inside. You may or may not want a bigger family. Do you consider it? What do you think? What are your feelings and how do you balance it all, knowing that your plate's really full right now, but that it's not going to be like this forever.

Jenn: 38:58

Okay, when it comes to relationship, I keep hope alive I'm not saying that just because I have children now that I won't be in a relationship later. So I do keep hope alive that one day that I will be in a relationship. And if that does not happen, I'm fine as well. I mean, I am still going to be my happy-go-lucky self. As far as children, I mean, I can say right now, because my hands are full, I'll say no, these are it. But I do keep the possibility alive that maybe I might have more children in the future.

Ann: 39:33

Do you look at the way and where you are right now and wonder if cause I circle back to the beginning and and for myself as well? And I do. I date and I go through phases. I actually had dating coach and I've gotten to a point where I realized dating is what's fun, whether you're with a in a relationship or not. It's about doing fun things in life, enjoying life and getting to know men or whoever it is you like to date and to share those experiences. When you think about how you've created your family, knowing that, like me, you know it's funny, it's what you think you want and I can't say that I didn't want it. But do you ever wonder if this is the way it was always supposed to be? And it just took like you had to get to the point that you got here but that really this is the way it was always supposed to be and that you were working against kind of a deep culture of what you're supposed to do.

Jenn: 40:36

I do think sometimes I do think about that sometimes. You know, was it always supposed to be this way? If I could have gotten out of my own way, so to speak, could I have had children sooner, Could I have been a little bit more happier sooner in regards to the process, Possibly. You know, sometimes we do rely on, or we do get caught up on, things with society and other things demands, things with our families. So I mean, anything is possible. Sometimes we just have to get out of our own way and do what we feel will make us happy, or what's necessary to make us happy. Right.

Ann: 41:20

We have to ask ourselves what is it that the external is trying to suggest or tell us to do?

Ann: 41:27

But what is it I think that's the hardest part is really centering and saying what do I want and what blocks am I putting in front of me?

Ann: 41:37

And sometimes it is that work of imagining what your life will be like, knowing that you're going to do something that is unlike what's ever been done, and it takes a lot of courage. And you've been courageous and you have defined your own narrative and it is unique to you, although we have a community of women and men who have done this, and you, you know you are a bold, brave and, I want to say, black woman, because we need more people that represent the variety of the world that are doing this, because you can be from any race, religion, culture I even will venture to say socioeconomic, if you are mindful of it to define the narrative of our family. And so congratulations, jen. Thank you for this interview, and we'll close it out by saying what recommendations would you give someone listening, who may be at any stage of the process? What recommendation would you give to a woman who is in the process of defining the narrative of their family or man?

Jenn: 42:48

yeah, um, what I would definitely suggest? Um, knowing you and finding out what makes you happy and blocking out all the other noise that's around. Once you get down to the nitty gritty and knowing what makes you happy, the process of decision should be fairly easy. It's just blocking out all the other noise behind it.

Ann: 43:14

I could not agree more, jen. Thank you so much. Thank you, good luck with the babies and just a shout out to your mom who's taking care of them.

Speaker 2: 43:26

Thank you for listening to this episode of Define, the Narrative podcast. We invite you to follow us on Instagram, Facebook and sign up for our email list at definethenarrative. us. Until next time.

Ann: 43:48

This is Define the Narrative podcast with your host, Ann Argo.