The Nonprofit Leader's Guide by Boundless
We want to bring you the thoughts of some of the most impactful leaders in health and human services. Their real-world experience in driving growth and impact and leading in hard times might be just the extra dose of motivation and common sense you need to bring to your organization whether you are an Executive Team member or the Board President. We think that leading the conversation about the nonprofit business sector and what nonprofits should think about now is part of our mission, “Building A World that realizes the boundless potential of all people.”
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The Nonprofit Leader's Guide by Boundless
Culture Is The Operating System, Not A Wall Poster
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Work feels heavier even when the tools look great. Scott and his guests dig into why strategy can be sound, dashboards can be green, and yet momentum still stalls.
His guests — Quiana Tolliver, Director of People and Culture at I Am Boundless, Karen Carloni, Director of Integration at I Am Boundless and Courtney Hughes O’Connell, consultant with CFHS — lead the discussion to make culture an operating system, which unlocks new speed in decision while making those decisions more purposeful.
You’ll hear how clarity—not radical transparency—builds trust during uncertainty, and why leaders should close loops even when answers are still pending. We compare integrations that soar to those that stumble: the winners overcommunicate the why and make it easy to see how each role contributes. The strugglers leave change shrouded in secrecy, prompting rumor mills and worst-case stories. Our guests share field-tested moves to align management, clean up workflows and even address change fatigue.
We also tackle AI adoption through a cultural lens. Adoption succeeds when leaders normalize new practices, define guardrails, and keep listening to their people on the ground. If this conversation sparked ideas for you and your team, follow the show, share it with a colleague, and leave a quick review so more nonprofit leaders can find it!
Culture As An Operating System
Leaders React: When Culture Bottlenecks
SPEAKER_04A few months ago, I was talking with a nonprofit executive who said that, I feel like I'm working harder than I ever have, and yet everything feels heavier. That's the end of her quote. You know what? Decisions are taking longer. Her leadership team was exhausted. And even though the mission hadn't really changed, the way work felt had changed. What struck me was nothing was really technically broken either. They had new systems, new strategies, had really smart people, but the organization had lost some jokes, had lost some energy. In 2025, that story became incredibly common really all over the country and all over the world, where for a lot of folks, culture became a bottleneck. Nonprofits invested in technology, transformation, efficiency, but progress still felt harder than it should. So again, the problem wasn't tools, it was culture. And that's what we're talking about today. Welcome to the Nonprofit Leaders Guide podcast brought to you by Balance. I'm your host, Scott Lightfall. So we are talking about organizational culture, not as a set of values that, you know, tack up on the wall, but as an operating system. I mentioned 2025, it didn't just change organizations, it exposed them in ways. So I'm joined by three leaders who live this work every single day. Let me introduce you to them. Welcome all. It's good to have you.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. Good to be here with you. Thank you.
SPEAKER_04So before we dive in, let me come back to uh a little bit of the tee up I had at the very beginning to each of you. When you hear the sentence culture became a bottleneck, what immediately comes to your mind? Keanu, would you mind starting us off?
SPEAKER_03Sure. Thanks for that, Scott. Um, when I think of it, I'm thinking from a people and culture perspective. I would say culture can become the bottleneck when clarity, trust, and decision, confidence gives way to hesitation and protective behaviors. And when I say that, like when people don't feel that there's trust or clarity there, then they're hesitant to be the leader that they typically are. And then they become, they have these protective behaviors, um, is what I would say is what first comes to mind from a people on culture lens. Okay. Karen?
SPEAKER_01When I think about culture becoming the bottleneck, I think about it in terms of when the dominant sentiment you start hearing from leadership, even if it isn't all of leadership, but only part of it, becomes conversations about the barriers and the why we can't versus how we could. And what you see is that they're forgetting to leverage the subject matter expertise of the rest of the on-the-ground staff.
SPEAKER_04Courtney, how about it?
SPEAKER_00Totally agree with my colleagues here. You know, as a consultant, when I hear culture became the bottleneck, I immediately think that the strategy is sound, you know, that the deal model works, the numbers are numbering the right way. Um, but the people system can't absorb the changes in the organization. And I know my colleagues here can agree, culture is not a soft factor. And that's one thing that a lot of business leaders um resist because there is time and attention and sometimes money investment that needs to be put into it. But if we don't assess the culture and the design intentionally, it inevitably will become the bottleneck.
Post‑Merger Energy Drops
SPEAKER_04Boy, this is really good out of the right out of the gate here. So let's let's dive into this here. And we're also really transparent in our episodes because we talk about, you know, again, the inner working, inner workings, the machinations that are happening here at Boundless. And and Kiana, you joined Boundless through a merger. Where did you first see, let's call it energy, not engagement. Where did you first see the energy start to shift?
SPEAKER_03Um, I would see the earliest signature with like hesitation, I think, like to as being the acquired organization to make decisions sometimes. Um, meetings grew quieter. I know you start to shrink back. Um, decisions slowed, like people are people that you knew previously would make decisions. They were slow to make decisions, and then conversations became more guarded, um, which was a sign for me. Um, and it was like nothing was visibly, I feel like, broken. Um, yet everything felt heavier to your point when you did the introduction, like everything just felt heavier. So the energy declines before you even see the performance. It's that energy, um, and then the metrics start to reveal the distress. Like we start seeing it in the data from those leaders, um, that their energy has decreased. So that's something that I noticed like leaders that when we were the previous organization, but then to now see they're more hesitant to make decisions, um, and then their conversations were more guarded, I feel like.
SPEAKER_04And Karen, how do Kiana's comments there resonate with you?
SPEAKER_01That's a very familiar sounding description of things when individuals are still viewing things from the us and them lens versus the we lens. And what needs to happen in that instance is leadership needs to help everyone see themselves in the new narrative, in the us narrative.
Defining And Measuring Cultural Energy
SPEAKER_00You can feel cultural energy, right? So we so we know this, and we also know that you can't lead at scale based on a vibe. And so I love what Kiana said about, you know, you can really start to see the results, you know, trailing uh on on the leadership teams that that really kind of felt that energetic lull. And you know, what we find is that that lack of energy is a leading indicator of what your business results will be, right? So the business, the, the, the dropping business results, that's the lagging indicator that something might be wrong. So we first have to really define what is this cultural energy because we all know it when we feel it. And, you know, Kiana was right on the nose. It's it's, you know, um, our research tells us in our experience, it's the psychological safety, it's the cross-functional trust, it's resilience, it's speed and decision making. And so we've got to figure out how we measure it because our gut is one thing. We want to make sure that we're measuring it so that we can really deliberately and surgically figure out how do we plug the gaps before it starts to impact business results.
SPEAKER_04All right, let me dig in there a little bit. How do we measure it? And and do you do you factor into that? You use the word vibe, and we've talked about a feel. Can that can those things be quantified?
Tools And Signals: Surveys To Turnover
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, it's um, we try to, uh, and you know, it in the people space. And a lot of times you have to have the gut instinct to go after the quantitative metrics and the tools. And there are a variety of tools that that can be used. I know we'll be talking about the OCAI, which is a cultural assessment instrument that is one tool. But then we can also use some, you know, analog tools, like very basic engagement surveys, pulse surveys, 360s. We can look at our turnover data. We look at our internal mobility rates. So there's a lot of puzzle pieces that when we put together start to show the story of what might be happening culturally.
SPEAKER_03Um, I like what she said. I know when you do those culture surveys, those pause surveys, I do think to um, so you can, it can't, you can't have the data behind it. Because I know you were saying like it's a quantitative. Um, I do feel like it's quantitative. Of course, are you getting every person's in the organization's perspective? No, but it can give you a great pause on what's happening in the gorgeous nation. What is the culture looking like? Um, and I do feel the workforce now is very transparent about that, about psychological safety. Do they feel that there's psychological safety? Do they feel there's clarity and trust? I do feel like they're very vulnerable in that state where they express because they want to work in a healthy culture.
SPEAKER_01I also think Courtney made a lot of great points. I think that particularly in terms of a post-merger integration, you're needing to form an um integration thesis. What things are you keeping? What things are you changing? Where are you drawing from the best of both? What's going away? And to do that, you really need to understand where people are coming from. And if you are making a lot of changes overnight in an organization that doesn't feel that trust, that doesn't feel listened to, that doesn't feel like their expertise is being leveraged, nothing is going to work. So I think it's vital that you do decide upon a method by which you're going to find out and you're going to trust that data.
SPEAKER_03I would say that too. I think the sharing of the data. I know a lot of staff reach out and say, like, okay, I did this survey, but how is that data shared and how is it applied? So I think that's important for the culture that we be transparent with the data and how we share it.
Clarity Versus Transparency In Change
SPEAKER_00Transparency and clarity are really interesting concepts. I think, you know, yes, we we we need to be clear with employees around why we're asking our intention. We need to circle back and say, hey, here's what we've heard from you. Thank you. And here's what we're going to do. Transparency is a bit of a slippery slope, especially when you're in a change environment. Um, and, you know, I know Kiana and Karen are know this all too well, especially, you know, as HR practitioners in Kiana's role. Um, you know, being overly transparent can create a lot of anxiety. And so there is a very fine line between helpful clarity and really addressing that what's in it for me, for each of the key stakeholders, which includes every employee, and full transparency, which isn't always helpful.
SPEAKER_04I want to tap your collective decades of experience here to ask. Um, all of you have bound to come into a situation in your careers where that energy was low. Is that is that first or second question in your mind? Okay, is this a a leadership issue or is this a systems issue?
Leadership Or Systems: Where To Start
SPEAKER_03Um, I would say a combo of both, Scott. Um I think leadership is the catalyst because leaders design and reinforce systems. We are the reinforcement of these systems. However, leadership cannot indefinitely compensate for workflows that generate excessive friction. So I do think it's a mix of both, but I have to even remind myself as a leader, we create the systems, we reinforce the systems.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I would agree. I think that's spot on. I think it always starts with leadership, but poorly designed workflows can really suck the energy out of an organization. It is to, in my mind, a primary duty of leadership to remove as much friction as possible so that you can get your desired outcomes. And of course, in what we do, that means access to care, effective services, financial stewardship, and innovation and growth toward the future as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, all excellent points. You know, I I think I would sum it up to say, you know, it's it is certainly a systems issue. And it's, you know, leadership is accountable for the design of the systems issues. And so it's it, that that's really what it boils down to. I think the other point, and and you know, I I got into the work, the line of work I do now in in consulting because of my experience as an employee going through mass MA. And I saw, I saw MAs run excellently, beautifully, well executed, and I saw them just horrific. And I and I, you know, having experienced that, what I can also say is low energy sometimes is a matter of people are just tired. Um, they're going through a lot of change. That's an easy solve. And a lot of times it doesn't cost a lot of money, um, you know, to kind of give people that, you know, shot in the arm at a girl, you know, take the afternoon, here's a pizza party. That sometimes can help if the low energy is a result of people are just tired. More often than not, it's the fact that people just don't see a clear path and their leaders don't see a clear path because the leaders over them don't see a clear path, right? And so on and so forth. And so we really have to address the top of the house here and make sure that leadership at the top, top levels um are truly taking full accountability to make sure that the systems related to communications and clarity, et cetera, are in place and that everybody is held accountable for that down the line.
What Great Integrations Get Right
SPEAKER_04Hey, Courtney, um, when you're talking to your clients these days and and you you you kind of paint both sides of that page of, hey, this MA was just sublime, and this one was a train wreck. The same question to both of those points. What were the one or two factors? Let's start with the good. What were the one or two factors that were, you know, really smooth, really copacetic? What were those one or two factors that led to you know great results?
Building Trust Without All The Answers
SPEAKER_00It it was the clarity and communication. Everybody was clear. What are we doing? Why are we doing it? What is the end state that we're all working towards? And in in all of those cases, when the deals were going really, really well, there was always that, you know, overlay of, gosh, I really hope that my seat is still here at the end of all of this, but I'm still in the game coach because I know what we're doing. I'm gonna fight hard for it because I care about the company, I care about my team. And that's really the the point there is that when you understand where you're going and why, usually human psychology, we're willing to be in it because we care about our coworkers, we care about our managers, we care about the mission of the organization, and we understand the what's and the whys. And then on the flip side, it's when the change feels, whether or not it's intentional, but when it feels shrouded in secrecy and, you know, people aren't really willing to talk, usually because they they themselves don't know, not necessarily because they're hiding something. That's when everybody starts drawing their own narratives, which 90% of the time are not only wrong, but worst case scenario that it never actually comes to fruition. Um, and so this is where the very clear communication um is important. We all know that that transparency isn't always possible. A lot of times there are confidential parts of the ultimate, you know, point of the deal that can't be communicated. But when you have people in an environment where they know and they trust, when there's information to be shared, they're going to be the first to know. It's amazing that amount of discretionary effort that people are willing to still show up with, even in the throes of change.
SPEAKER_04Well, speaking of being really busy, Karen, you have had your shoulder to the wheel here over this last year. You've overseen one integration and three due diligence processes. Um tell us about that. And then and then what has built trust over what you've been able to observe over the last year? What is built trust when leaders don't have all of the answers?
SPEAKER_01It it has been a really busy year and um a wonderful first year with Boundless. I've appreciated so much the really excellent communication in Boundless, not only communicating early and often and being honest, but also communicating on things that we aren't clear about yet. So Courtney referenced some things that are things that you can't always communicate about yet in a deal, or are items that aren't really open for public discussion. But what you can say to people a lot of times is the items that they are most concerned about, the things that affect them day to day, you can let them know if those items haven't been decided upon yet. So you can say, we're still thinking through the table of organization, we're still thinking through benefit structure, so that they don't feel like they're in the dark about every single thing. And then the the second thing that I would say about that is that it really helps to ensure that each staff member understands why their role is important in a successful final result. So if they can picture themselves having something to do with the success of the project, it goes a long way.
Reading Culture Gaps With OCAI
SPEAKER_03So when I think of the people, I think trust is built by less by like the certainty, but more by credibility as the leader. I tell my current leader all the time, I trust her. So what she tells me is credible information. I understand, you know, when she can't share everything. I respect that, but because I trust her and because she has credibility. So I think when leaders create trust and credibility with their direct reports, it's more about, I trust my leader, I know they're guiding me. Even if it's something that I may not want to hear, I understand it because I trust them and I know that they're gonna, of course, make the best decision, of course, for the organization, but will be transparent with me of being honest so I can know my next step. So I think communicating early, I think what you can as to what we're saying, like everything can be communicated, but what can be communicated early and consistently, I think leaving people in silence is the problem. When people are like, we know this MA is happening, we haven't heard anything. So I do think consistently communicating to your point, Karen, like right now we don't know anything about benefits, we don't know anything about what position you will have, but at least communicating um and honestly, with like that confidentiality boundaries while helping employees understand like where do they fit? Like they want to know, like where do I fit? And of course, we we don't always know or we can't always share where they fit, but I just think those constant communications, even if it's monthly, like, oh, this is our monthly follow-up on the MA of what's happening, um, or what I can share. This is what I can share. But if your team trusts you back to the trust, if they trust you, they know you are going to share what you can, and anything you can't share, they respect you as a leader not to share it.
SPEAKER_04Boy, you teed up what I wanted to um uh bring to to Courtney's attention next, talking about trust gaps. And Courtney, you mentioned OCAI earlier, call um organizational uh cultural assessments. With the the the clients you work with, can you see those trust gaps in the data?
SPEAKER_00You can. And now, you know, the the the instrument does not measure trust directly, but rather it measures dominant culture patterns within the organization. And you the way we use the instrument, especially in an MA, is we would um we would index both organizations, the two companies that are coming together, and we would take a look at where are their similarities culturally and where are their big differences. And so we can see trust strain, potentials trust strain in that data. And so uh, you know, if if one organization shows up in, you know, what what the tool calls a clan culture, meaning we are highly collaborative, we talk, we make decisions by um, you know, working together versus a market culture, which is the highly competitive individualistic, well, we know looking at that data, that we are going to face some trust issues because the way we work and how we define quote collaboration is very different. So it's not to say the market dominant organization does not collaborate, just the way they collaborate is defined differently. And so that's where, again, we're not looking for trust specifically, but the data shows us where those hot spots are likely going to be.
SPEAKER_04I'd love to hear from from all three of you if you want to chime in on. So, what happens when the leadership team gets some of this data back and they're surprised to almost shocked at what they see and hear?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I would say I know, like I said, we did um it was great. I think it was a great surprise for us to see on one of the surveys, one of our um Paul surveys that we did, um, that staff did feel that psychological safety. The numbers came back that this year, they in 2025 that they felt um psychological safety, which is I think one of the main factors of having a healthy culture is when staff feel psychological safety because then they're transparent um with their needs. Um, from a retention lens, of course, it was a culture from retaining staff, um, employees want to work for an organization where they feel psychological safety. So I would say that was like one of the great highlights um that I think we were surprised at, but it was a great surprise to see that um as much as sometimes we doubt our culture, that they do feel that psychological safety. So that's what I would say.
From Surprise Data To Action
SPEAKER_04And and Karen, you were in the room for for one of these, right? Or I think at least from one uh in in my knowledge, when when some cultural surveys came out, and and there were again these surprising results. What was that like being in the room?
SPEAKER_01I was really impressed with first of all the tool and And the things that it revealed in terms of looking at your culture as it is, and then the culture that people would prefer. And what we found out at Boundless in that particular measure of our culture, while the vast majority of the organization was aligned, we were able to look at a segment of the organization that was seeing things a little bit differently. What we've discovered was that our middle management really wanted to focus more toward collaboration and workflows. Courtney mentioned the clan, uh the clan style culture and the workflow style culture is a more hierarchical culture. And the staff wanted to really focus there, but only part of our staff wanted to focus there. And what we learned from that, that was probably an indicator of some change fatigue from some recent mergers. And it really informed some of the next things that we needed to think about in terms of our strategies over the next six months to a year. Where was the work that would give us the most important result on that culture? And that was to clean up some workflows. That was to clean up some collaboration opportunities. And then the third uh part of that strategy was also what could we do to align the staff that wasn't as aligned with the direction that the rest of the company was thinking in terms of more innovation, in terms of a more market viewpoint. And what we saw was there was a need to really do some education around the why of growth and innovation.
SPEAKER_04Okay. So we know we have to bring up, I don't know if we have to bring it up, but AI is becoming such a topic in just about everything we we hear in the media, everything we read, everything we're hearing on other podcasts. So let's talk about it in this conversation here. AI adoption has exposed some cultural gaps. Um, Courtney, what does OCAI uh surface that that leaders could miss here when it comes to AI technology?
AI Adoption And Culture Fit
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's such a good question because this type of inward look can't be done with AI. We can interpret results with AI, we can do excellent brainstorming around what to do leveraging AI. But this is where the the real humans um can't be replaced. So the the tool itself, again, it's gonna surface gaps between, you know, what what our CEO says our culture is and really what's happening on the ground. And there's a saying that I love that's relevant here. And the saying is when you're inside the jar, you can't read the label. And that's what the tool's all about. Because when you are so close to the organization and you're in it, um, it's really hard to be objective about what it is. And and so hence the tools. They're objective. Um, and they're they're they're really just going to um, you know, give us the data around what is happening today and what do people want to see? What's the aspirational culture? Um, that piece can't be um done via AI. That needs to be humans using their own brains and their own hearts to say, here's what I'm experiencing and here's what I want. And then, of course, what we do with that data can absolutely be very successfully leveraged uh within the AI world.
SPEAKER_04Oh, I'm gonna steal, or let me, I'm gonna borrow, I should say, inside the jar. You cannot read the that's fantastic, Courtney. When did you hear that? Who said that? Or did you say that?
SPEAKER_00No, I I listen, I I leveraged it from an old mentor of mine, and I I use it all the time, and it's relevant in so many situations and fit perfectly here. So glad to pass that one on to you.
SPEAKER_04That's fantastic. Uh, Kiana, Karen, uh, jump in here in terms of uh you to pick up from that great metaphor or uh uh AI of wow, uh AI go. Really, because it's just it's just infiltrating uh just just about all ways that we conduct business out there.
SPEAKER_01You're gonna have early adopters, you're gonna have the middle folks, and then you're gonna have a group of people that are a little bit more reluctant. And your culture might tell you a little bit of a little bit of how you can successfully implement that change. So if you have that collaboration culture, you might really think about having small group meetings and lots of lots of collaborative ways of dealing with change management, where sometimes if you're in a more hierarchical culture, people are looking just to a couple of key leaders to say, this is what we're gonna do and this is how we're gonna do it.
SPEAKER_03I would agree with that, um, what you said, Karen, of course. Um but I think when we think about, of course, AI adoption is another change. Um, as you just said, it's change. So I think to get employees or leaders, um the adoption depends, I think less on AI, the tool itself, but I think more on the leadership's ability to normalize it. Like this is what we're doing, this is our new way of doing it, um, this is how we're going to create policies, we're going to do it through AI. Um, but I think how we normalize it and embrace the change, how we teach our teams to embrace the change with AI.
One Thing Leaders Must Do In 2026
SPEAKER_04As we start to wrap up our conversation here, let me let's end with just a little bit of a rapid fire. If there's one thing on all of your minds that nonprofit leaders must do in 2026 to reduce the culture tax, as we've talked about it here, what would that one thing be? Courtney, would you start us off?
SPEAKER_00I would say stay curious. Stay curious. So many leaders um get so emotionally attached to the way they feel like things should be, or that they feel like things are. And that's that's sometimes disconnected from the reality. So I would say stay open and stay curious.
SPEAKER_04Karen, how about it?
SPEAKER_01I think we need to communicate strategy, use data, and be intentional, especially in the moments that matter during change, uncertainty, growth, and pressure, especially.
SPEAKER_03Okay, Tiana? I was saying 2026 nonprofit leaders should recognize that culture is no longer a soft priority, that it's a multiplier of strategy, retention, and performance. Um, so I do think that that should be one of the important things that they focus on with culture, remembering that it is no longer a soft priority.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you can't hope that culture is going to improve, right? You've got to design it to improve. What a great conversation, Kiana, Karen, Courtney. Thank you so much. We're gonna get to our mission moment here in just a little bit. But again, to the three of you, thank you very much. Just a terrific conversation today.
SPEAKER_03Thank you for having me, Scott. Thanks. My pleasure.
SPEAKER_04Time now for our mission moment. And I want you to meet my new friend, Izzy.
SPEAKER_02I work at Boundless Confection Connection. I'm the operations manager there. We give adults with disabilities the opportunity to come in and learn job skills and job experience and have someone to use as like a reference point. We make everything from scratch and they do it all, start to finish. We let them use the ovens, the mixers, all of it. And we've had some really fantastic people come through our group, like our peer mentor, Michael. He started out as just one of our bakers and he had some skills to learn. He had to work on some of his leadership skills, some patience, and a little bit of time management. But as he worked on those skills, his peers started coming to him and asking him to help them. Like, hey, we see that you've picked this up. How did you do that? Can you teach us that? And that transitioned into like a mentoring role. So now he spends a lot of time working one-on-one with his peers, teaching them the skills that he learned. He encourages them and sets them up for like success later on by like being that sounding board for them. They'll come to him if they're having issues like at home or something like that as well, just to get some advice from someone that is like them, but that they have gotten a chance to watch kind of grow and succeed. That's been a really amazing thing to watch.
SPEAKER_04So, Izzy, can I ask, do you have a favorite confection that you can share with our listeners?
SPEAKER_02My favorite confection is the caramel cheesecakes. Super sweet. They're cupcake sized, so they're like two bites and they're gone, but they're so worth it.
SPEAKER_04That sounds fantastic. Thank you for bringing us for baking up, shall we say, for mixing up a mission moment for this episode. Thanks, Izzy. Thank you. Until the next time, this is the Nonprofit Leader's Guide Podcast brought to you by Pamlet.