Dive into the dynamic world of home-based care mergers and acquisitions with industry expert, Jen Lentz. In this episode, she shares her journey from COO to operating partner at Havencrest Capital Management, offering a fresh perspective on unifying the US home-based care industry. Discover invaluable insights on selling your business - from understanding your value to navigating financial, tax, and legal implications. Lentz explores the intricacies of buying a business, highlighting factors like company compliance, employee retention, and integration nuances. Through her experiences, she emphasizes the importance of relationship-building and trust in the post-transaction phase. Tune in for an enlightening discussion that offers a roadmap for both potential sellers and buyers in the home-based care sector.
If you liked this episode and want to learn more about all things home-based care, you can explore all our episodes at alayacare.com/homehealth360.
Dive into the dynamic world of home-based care mergers and acquisitions with industry expert, Jen Lentz. In this episode, she shares her journey from COO to operating partner at Havencrest Capital Management, offering a fresh perspective on unifying the US home-based care industry. Discover invaluable insights on selling your business - from understanding your value to navigating financial, tax, and legal implications. Lentz explores the intricacies of buying a business, highlighting factors like company compliance, employee retention, and integration nuances. Through her experiences, she emphasizes the importance of relationship-building and trust in the post-transaction phase. Tune in for an enlightening discussion that offers a roadmap for both potential sellers and buyers in the home-based care sector.
If you liked this episode and want to learn more about all things home-based care, you can explore all our episodes at alayacare.com/homehealth360.
Welcome to Home Health 360, a podcast presented by AliyahCare. I'm your host, Jeff Howell, and this is the show about learning from the best in home health care from around the globe.
Erin Vallier:Welcome to another episode of the Home Health 360 podcast, where we speak with home care professionals from around the globe. I'm your guest host, Erin Valliere, US Director of Sales for AlayaCare Software, and today I am joined by special guest Jen Lentz to talk about home care mergers and acquisitions. Jen is a home care executive and advisor with extensive experience in strategic business development and operations. Formerly the COO of a large home care company, she is now an operating partner with Havencrest Capital Management, working to build out their home care platform. She is attuned to the ever-changing health care landscapes and develops opportunities for home care businesses related to managed care, government health programs, home health care utilization review, health care data and information technology, revenue growth, compliance and operational efficiencies. Welcome to the show, Jen.
Jen Lentz:Thanks, erin, happy to be here.
Erin Vallier:Oh, it is such a pleasure to talk to you today. So before we dive in, like I have a question for you. If I'm looking at your bio, it looks like you're living out exactly what we're talking about today mergers and acquisitions. So super excited to get your fresh perspective on what's actually going on in the market and provide some actionable insights to our listeners who might be thinking about selling. But before we do that, I'm sure everyone well I'm speaking for myself, maybe, but I'm sure other people also are very curious to hear how you got into mergers and acquisitions and why you're so passionate about it. Can you share that with us?
Jen Lentz:Yes, yes.
Jen Lentz:I think what's so interesting about home care in the US in particular is that we have over 32,000 agencies across this country and when you think about that, when you kind of talk about franchises and the big players out there, there's only a few amount of names that you can really say that are household, and that's because most of these are started by owner operators who got into it because they identified a need within their community and they have flourished and created a business that not only is helping people age or remain safely in their homes within their community, but also providing employment opportunities for folks within those same neighborhoods.
Jen Lentz:What I find so interesting about M&A in this space is that there's not one deal that's like another, and if you have an open mind and you're really attuned to what you can learn, there's so much opportunity to evolve best practice. Take a unique approach to somebody at a different nurse, business, person, investor everyone looks at it a little bit differently and therefore every business is a little bit different, and so I find M&A to be so interesting. And then allowing that owner operator to give a space of being the expert in their own world, there's a ton that we can do to kind of consolidate 32,000 agencies but, it definitely has to be done the right way.
Erin Vallier:That's very interesting. No two deals are like. I guess that definitely appeals to our human need for variety, keeping on your toes right. Yes, you know, depending on the source, you might hear this year that M&A is up or is down. I was doing a little research and I think PRWIRE said that it was down 20% in Q2 and then Home Care Care News said no, it's up 32%. What's really going?
Jen Lentz:on. You're living the story here. My first question is always compared to what? There's been so much chatter whether it's Home Care, home Health or Hospice in this, the golden age of deals of 2021. Everything was up. It was this record-breaking deal amount that year and I think that no-transcript, you know, if you look at it now like, oh well, compared to this quarter last year, this quarter in 21 deal flows down.
Jen Lentz:To be fair, it's busy. There are a ton of people interested in coming into the home care space. There are plenty of owner operators out there who are excited to be starting the next chapter in exiting the home care space, and I do think that there is a lot of movement and interest right now. Deals take time to close and so you know that's the other thing about these numbers. It's you know you may start in Q1 but you closed in Q3, and so If that's the case, you're always going to have higher numbers in certain times of year than others, and people are not usually big on carrying over from year to year. So, compared to what, I do think there's a lot of great resources out there when you talk about deal flow.
Jen Lentz:Love the BRAF BRAF groups website to have all different data points. You can slice it and dice it any way you want. That will really help kind of show Comparative deal volume year of year in the past that I think for 2023. There's not really much out there that you can lock in and say you know we're up or down, it's too.
Erin Vallier:To in the mix. I guess the moral of that story is you're busy though it's busy, very busy.
Erin Vallier:And you touched on something really important. You've got this group that got so burned up because of covid and they're exiting, they're ready to go, but also covid created way more demand and so now you've got everybody entering and it's just this really chaotic mixture of this is I'm curious to hear, for those people who maybe are ready to exit or thinking about exiting, in your experience, what are some of those leading indicators that it's a good time to think about selling?
Jen Lentz:So I would reference a lot of that personal feeling. You know change is always coming. There was all this conversation recently about the CMS proposed rule, this 8020 split, and that's going to bring down regulatory changes for every state. Cost reporting structures, all kinds of that administrative burden is coming. Changes always on the horizon and if you're someone like me, you know I'm tend to smile and go challenge accepted and roll up my sleeves and go with it, and I think there's a lot of folk out there that that feel the same way. If you look at that change coming on the horizon and you're immediately feeling exhausted or you're dreading it, you know that's kind of a good indicator of maybe you want to think about doing something different and that brief moment or kind of personal choice of your next chapter being on the horizon, explore, allow yourself to think in that space for a minute and say, all right, well, if I wanted to do something, what would that look like?
Jen Lentz:I spoke with a seller recently and it was so eloquently put. She goes I have dedicated my entire life to my business. People call me a workaholic. I just call myself passionate about my work. Well, I'm ready to be passionate about relaxation. I'm ready to be a relaxaholic and in that definitive time in her life where she made that choice really said I'm ready to sell my business. It's not an easy process, so you definitely have to kind of put yourself in the mindset of that next chapter of energy and selling your business, but it's that usually tends to be the first indicator.
Erin Vallier:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Do I really want to keep fighting the fight, because it is always an uphill battle? And in home health? And you also said something that leads me to my next question is it takes a bundle of energy to actually sell the business. It's a lot. So once I've decided, when somebody has decided I'm going to do this, I'm ready to sell. How they start, like, how high can they start? What do they do to prepare your next?
Jen Lentz:So I think there's a couple of things you have to do in your own personal headspace first, before you even thinking about collecting three years of financials and policies and procedure, and we can get to that in a little bit. But you need to define what it is you're selling. So I think people like I want to sell my home care company. Okay, well, what state do you work in? Do they like home care in your state? Do you have reimbursement rates getting increased? Are you looking at minimum wage increases that are going to affect your gross margin? Are you looking at an aging state where people are flocking in to retire? What is it that you are actually selling, not only in today, for the value of your business, but the growth trajectory for your business?
Jen Lentz:You have to know your value, know what it is that you as the individual, the leader and the owner of that organization brings to the table, because most of the time you're selling because you want out, and so how is the company and the business going to function with you removed from that setting? Are you the bill or the payer, the accountant? Are you the clinician who does every visit? You know what is it that you have here with you in it and then without you in it, because that's going to change the valuation of your company.
Jen Lentz:I also think it's extremely important to know what kind of buyer you want Before you engage in any kind of conversation. That company that you just kind of sat there and described to yourself and really thought about, who do you want to be the steward of that business after you're not there anymore and what are some of the expectations that you are setting for that individual, group, firm, company, whoever it is at the other side of the table, that are really not negotiable for you? Because if you don't have that kind of at least baseline expectation, all of a sudden big numbers are tossed around and it's very exciting and it's kind of moves very quickly and you're not going to have that piece of quiet to have those realistic conversations with yourself about what this really means as you prepare to go and sell your business.
Erin Vallier:That is a lot to think about, a lot more than I imagine, not, you know, not just thinking about all. How do I functionally execute this? What information do they need? It's like more forward thinking about the future and how your presence, or lack thereof, in the business is going to change its value. I would never have thought that I'm definitely. You're the expert here, for sure. So you've basically just outlined how complex this process is, which would scare me as a business owner to try to do all this stuff. It requires the seller to prepare a ton of information and think about all the things in order to get a fair price for their business. What can the seller actually expect during due diligence?
Jen Lentz:So this is probably the lengthiest answer and so bear with me, I'm going to kind of break it up into chunks here and each chunk will have kind of a nuance based off of your pay, your mix. So the first piece, of course, as everyone can expect, is the financial component. So Whoever your buyer is, you will go through a financial diligence process. Usually there is a third-party entity on the buy side. You bring your CPA, your accountant, your bookkeeper to the table as well. For your own side you can go through a quality of earnings. Usually for a small company that's probably not something as feasible. It's a lot of cost and it's time consuming, but it is available for an independent CPA to do for you. But, again, small company, you may just bring your own books to the table and kind of work with that financial diligence piece. They typically ask for things like your last three years of financials. They'll ask for you know, kind of a proof of cash, if you will, proof of reimbursement. They're going to want to know about your accounts receivable and your kind of aging debt. They're going to kind of pick apart your books for the past three years and it's truly the goal is to align that what you say you got paid. You got paid and what you say you paid out and that you did everything financially by the book, and so that's the root piece of that first diligence. The second is tax Obviously, making sure that you paid your taxes and you did everything right. You filed your 5,500 and you know you did your W-2s every year and if you have 10, 99 employees, that that went out appropriately. So they're going to kind of go through and look for all those things. They're also going to look at the ownership structure. They're going to look at, you know, your tax filings as a company and all that fun stuff. The third piece is your legal and legal can also dovetail into compliance and this is where you're going to start to see that shift in the payer. So legal is pretty straightforward. It is all about you know making sure that you don't have any lawsuits or pending Department of Labor claims. They're going to go through your ownership structure again. They're going to talk about your licensure and, you know, joint commission accreditation. All these fun things will be in there if they apply to your organization.
Jen Lentz:Compliance comes into another layer of that when you are looking at Medicaid and government payer. So they're going to do chart audits, especially if you're in a equity or a stock purchase versus an asset purchase, is where you're kind of layman's terms are lightly explaining it. Equity is you're buying everything. You're buying the history, the good, the bad, the ugly. So if Medicaid comes and knock in, you're pulling out seven years worth of paperwork for them. If that's what they're looking to see. What the asset purchase is, you're kind of today I bought the company, going forward is my responsibility and you kind of retain that because that EIN does not transition under an asset purchase. That stays behind. So you know, just deal structure may impact that, pay, your mix may impact that.
Jen Lentz:The fourth piece, or third and then kind of fourth piece, is the insurance. They're going to look at your workers comp. They're going to look and see if you offered a retirement plan Some states have that requirement for you to have that offered to your employees. Liability insurance, you know, auto If you have cars and a fleet workers comp. I mentioned already health benefits, 401k.
Jen Lentz:So they're going to kind of dive into all of those different policies and make sure that you've done everything that you have said you've done and that you were supposed to have done, based off of local state clients, regulatory requirements. And then the last piece, which is my favorite and tends to be where I sit in my process, is the operations. I'm going to want to understand your KPIs. I want to understand your roles, the responsibilities, the policies and procedures, and how does that, all of that, tie into the other four pieces of diligence? You know, do you see that your utilization impacts your finances on a month over month? Do we see that paying out a retention bonus every July has a negative impact on your gross margin that month, and how does that really equal out across? So all different types of pieces, but it is definitely a lengthy process that requires you to really pull together a ton of information.
Erin Vallier:So if I'm an owner right now, I'm literally weighing out do I deal with the new regulations or do I go through all of this?
Jen Lentz:Because we're eternally scared.
Erin Vallier:What do, especially smaller businesses that wear many hats? I'm just envisioning listening to this as a small business owner. Going well, I don't have time to gather all this information or even know where to start. Is there a checklist? Is there resources on one? Should I hire a consultant? What do you say in that situation?
Jen Lentz:So it depends, you know, I think certain scenarios you should. There's great brokers out there who have a reputation of for lack of a better way to put it hand holding through the process who really will step in and be your advisor, your guidance, the help, follow up, the help kind of answer your questions and translate it from some of the more legalese or high level finance into how the operators are really speaking. So there's definitely option there. They do have a cost component to them and so you know, trying to weigh out what you're really looking to invest into this process, that will be a factor. But there are folks, local too, who have sold businesses and can help be a guide for them.
Jen Lentz:It's an interesting thing to do because people will say I'm too busy for that. I get it, but you won't be here after you sell. So if you're too busy running the business, does the business really survive without you or how are you making? It goes back into that question of who's buying, because they you're going to need somebody to be running the day to day. If you're not there and if you can't sell the company or put that energy into it because you're still running your business, the balance there may not be the right timing.
Erin Vallier:That's a good point, very good point, but at least I'm comforted to hear that there are plenty of resources out there for people who are really passionate, you know, committed to this pathway, and it sounds like from some of the things you've shared in terms of legal and operations, you have probably refined your lens by which you evaluate businesses that you potentially want to purchase. What are some of those key things you're looking for in a company during?
Jen Lentz:diligence. I think the number one thing I look for is compliance. I've definitely encountered some bad actors in my career and I don't think they're very hard to spot. It's a couple of calls, a couple of interactions and you can kind of say not sure that's by the book. So for me, first and foremost, I want to make sure you do what's right, because if you're doing it what's right by the regulatory, regulatory requirements, the state, the licensure pieces, that means you're also doing right by your clients and your employees. And I think there's always been a direct correlation there. And I think that tends to be my first kind of line of defense and being able to say this is going to be a good purchase or a good asset for us.
Jen Lentz:The second piece is 100% Roots and Foundation. Why are you here? Why did you start this business? Why did you buy this business? Why are you selling this business? What got us to this table today? And usually there's a story there that then dovetails into describing the culture. And in that story, in that passion, you're going to be able to take that owner-operator's experience and understand more than you realize about what goes on behind the four walls of that operation, whether it's virtual or brick and mortar. That is truly your window into the culture of that company and so I tend to start there, which is not checked off in diligence. That is more of really getting to know the people selling the business.
Jen Lentz:It's easy to do Google searches nowadays. I've looked at companies who I've Googled and they popped up on their local news channel on Thanksgiving doing a soup kitchen. It was a bunch of the staff workers working and coming in on their holiday to make sure that they were giving back to their community and they were highlighted on the news for it. That to me is kind of reflective on being truly embedded in their communities, truly focused in on the people that they serve. You can also find the opposite of different things that have gone on with companies. So reputation is easy to kind of dig through and look at.
Jen Lentz:And then their employees how long have they been there? If you have people, a good company will say hi, my staff have been with me for 10, 12, 15 years. That speaks volume. It does People want to go to work at a place that they feel comfortable, they feel valued and I think with all of the chatter around quiet quitting and how tumultuous the employment or labor market has been the past year or two. To know that you've been able to hang on to people for that long and not had turnover speaks a lot about the company in itself. And so if you have that strong foundation, the rest of it will follow and in turn maybe it changes the deal structure and we work on something to kind of make it happen. But to me that is truly where I start in evaluating a business, because then the rest of it is checking boxes as far as the diligence process goes.
Erin Vallier:Right, so compliance, culture and employees for those of you who are making your business right now, and she knows how to do some research. So, let's take this a step further and assume that we've made this sale right, we've made that transaction. Can you share your experience with integration, post transaction, and what does integration mean to you specifically? Because I think it could mean a bunch of different things to a bunch of different people and I guess I'm specifically curious about how you guys manage that process yourselves.
Jen Lentz:Absolutely, I think. Well said, it's defined a thousand different ways. To me, integration is a time frame. It does not have anything descriptive to do with the actual process, because no two businesses are the same, no two deal flows or transactions are the same and no two integration processes are the same, and so if you think that you can come up with some cookie cutter playbook, it will not work the second time you try to roll it out. It's just, it's not how this works.
Jen Lentz:People are dynamic, states are different and you're picking up something that is unique and it may only be three times over from the last deal you did. So it's the next phase, after diligence and closing, and it's kind of this catch all term. For us, it is completely unique every time. But to try to boil it down into how we think about it, we come in post transaction and the first thing we do is level set. I think that what people end up doing is they come in and they're going to change and they're going to bring in all these new things, but the reality is you have to get to know these folks first. Integration is, it's all about people, and if you come in and say I know better, this is how we're going to do things here on out. You've immediately built a wall, and so our big first thing is being present, meet the staff and level set. Here's who we are, here's where we come from. Tell me who you are and tell me where you come from, and then you've kind of met in the middle and now you're moving forward together and that, to me, is truly step one in integration.
Jen Lentz:The second piece is giving them time and an opportunity to complain. I know it sounds not like the sweetest way to put it, but everybody's got grapes. What doesn't work about your system? What do your caregivers complain about? What manual process do you go through, whether it's I have to key in every single invoice line item for this particular bill, pay or bill to let them air it all out Half the time. That's good.
Jen Lentz:The other half the time.
Jen Lentz:Hey, we may need some new efficiencies here, but it gives you the lay of the land, and those types of issues do not come out in diligence.
Jen Lentz:You know, you understand that this is their EHR, that they're working and that's all well and good. But you will have to understand what's broken in order for you to actually be able to integrate them into their new systems and educate them. And then the third piece is really just all about workflows, job descriptions and your systems. So how are you able to take the people that you've gotten to know, the issues that you've uncovered through that next part of the process and then going into saying, okay, here's how we're going to move forward, here's how I'm bringing you into my EHR, here's how I'm bringing you into my payroll system, and you're doing it from a place of knowledge on how they think and how they're expecting to move forward. And I promise you will be much more successful if you take the time for step one and two, because integration, I think, defaults to being the third part right systems based, but it's definitely critical to give time for one and two.
Erin Vallier:Yes, but it seems very logical to me. You got to know who you're dealing with and what's important to them, what they think is the issues, before you start saying, well, hey, I'm the new sheriff in town and we're going to do that. I think that approach goes over very well. What advice can you give to an owner who's just sold their business and they still have this really strong emotional tie to that business? They build it from scratch and they love the people and they love the clients. How do they go about detaching? I'm sure you've come across this a couple times.
Jen Lentz:Yes, and this is not an easy question to answer personally for not being someone who has sold my business, but I think from what I've witnessed allowing closure. You know, recently we closed on a deal and they had a below out retirement party. They celebrated, they had all their employees, current and past, they invited caregivers to come, they had clients, family members invited. I mean, they celebrated their retirement and I think it was able to kind of bookend the career in such a positive way that it eased them out of their, you know, kind of sadness and that seemed to have worked for them. And then reminding yourself that you why you decided to go in.
Jen Lentz:So, going back into the beginning, maybe write it down for yourself on a piece of paper and put it in your drawer and your desk when you decide to sell, why am I selling? And then, when you are in that moment and you are going, what am I crazy? This is so busy, this is so stressful, this process is taking so long. Pull out the piece of paper and remind yourself the note to you in the future, future self, it's okay. This is why I want to move to Florida and go to the beach more than just once a year, whatever the case is. But you have to make sure you're making the decision for yourself and then making sure you are reminding yourself why and leave room to celebrate. It's an amazing thing. It's sad, but you have accomplished a lot and let people celebrate you.
Erin Vallier:Because you deserve advice, great advice. Celebrate the moment. It's a transition to a new season Nothing is permanent in life and remind yourself of the why I love that. Are there anything, any particular things, that a previous owner can do to help you, jen, to make that transition more smooth?
Jen Lentz:There's a couple of things, but I think the number one thing a seller can do is buy in.
Jen Lentz:And it kind of goes back again to the comment about know who you want to sell to, because your ability to believe in their vision, to trust that they're going to be good stewards of your business post transaction will ultimately make the process go so much smoother. I think it's hard because you are leaving, you are stepping out and there is somebody now, whether they mean to or not, telling you all the things they intend to do differently, the things that you can do better work, shoulda, coulda, woulda and it automatically makes you kind of go on the defensive. And it's so hard and I'm not going to try and say that it's easy, but allowing that space to say I'm so happy that they're going to take my business and do that with it, and allowing for that to happen, because your ability to buy into the sale will translate to all of your employees. You will be how they feel about the transition and the success of the transaction is always based off of the employees.
Jen Lentz:If everybody leaves after I buy a company, then the value of that company is no more, and that kind of goes back into what we said before about compliance, culture and employees. The people aren't there. This is a service industry. This is healthcare in the home. You need people, and so you know. I think that truly has to be something that the sellers are willing to give in to make this process not only go smoother but ultimately to be successful.
Erin Vallier:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. The change management, the culture, anything that's top down, like the employees are going to see how that owner is accepting or reacting to the situation and they'll probably adopt a similar attitude towards it. So, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And on the flip side, I'm sure there are things that an owner can do, intentionally or subconsciously, that would completely derail this transition. What are some things that people should be really conscious about and avoid so that it's successful, because ultimately, I'm sure they want it to be successful?
Jen Lentz:It kind of goes along that same thumb You're the leader up until the very end.
Jen Lentz:This is your company, these are your employees, up until we flip that switch.
Jen Lentz:And so you know if you are stressed, if you are sad, you have to work to be able to kind of keep that separate from the day-to-day operations, because it does create an energy around your employees. They feel your leadership constantly and if that's something you're bringing into the office, you're bringing into how you're speaking to your staff and things like that. You know you really need to try to mitigate a lot of that kind of emotional transfer to your staff. And I think with that it's not always easy because it's a lonely position to be in. And so, kind of going back to the previous question of do you get an advisor, you may want to bring in one of your leaders, you know trusted employee into the mix so you have somebody to kind of talk these things through with. But you know, telling everybody too early is something that should definitely be avoided because it does create angst, it does create nervousness and it takes everybody's eye off the prize which is ultimately providing quality home care to their patients.
Erin Vallier:That makes sense. Attitude is everything. Also, being very careful with your words when you decide to tell people, because it does make everybody a little bit nervous. What's going to happen to me? Is this person going to come in and wipe out all the staff and start over? So that makes a lot of sense to me as well. Trust At trust level yeah, trust is super important. It sounds like you have a very solid process in place to assume operational responsibilities post transaction and you're gentle about it. You're respectful, thoughtful and you don't negatively disrupt the working environment, which is pretty special because, as you just brought up a minute ago, most people start at that number three let's just change everything and get it done, and I just doesn't. That just doesn't work very well. So I'd like to hear from you, beyond what we've already discussed, what are some of those key operational elements that you feel make Abbott Health different from other home care companies?
Jen Lentz:We have adapted this mentality of just because we've been doing it a long time doesn't mean we know the best thing to do. I think it is truly unique and a priority for us that we have to always be looking out at another way of doing things. And one of the big things that we look at every time we think about acquiring a company or meeting with a company for the first time is what unique value proposition are they bringing into the greater entity, and whether it's a certain cultural focus for their patient population. Maybe it's a new geography, maybe it's a new policy and procedure manual, maybe it's a new retention program that we never thought of. But there's always something that's unique that we never thought of, have never implemented and ultimately want to learn from and then take that across the rest of the organization, and so we call it the absorption of best practice. It could be something so, so small. It could be. You know, their entire service delivery is so unique, consumer directed, and we have this whole process for training. It's brilliant, and I think having that kind of space to learn and constantly be evolving is so critical.
Jen Lentz:If you think that you know everything there is to know about home care, then you're shooting yourself in the foot before you wake up that morning, and so I think for us that's kind of a key piece. We also are heavily weighted in hiring and promoting from within. So when we talk about going back into compliance, culture and people, we're always looking to say you know, under a small owner operator maybe there wasn't that kind of career ladder before, but this person's got so much talent or the ability to really take something and run, or they're chomping at the bit for their next opportunity. Well, where can we place them within the organization that they now have a ladder? Because I think I know from my own personal experience I came up being promoted from within at a previous company and it makes you want to stay, it makes you want to work harder, it makes you feel valued, it makes you value the work that you're doing, and I think that operational piece for us is definitely a top priority.
Erin Vallier:Very cool. So stay humble is what I heard you say. And the piece about hiring within. I didn't think about that, but that's very cool because you're taking all of these very small businesses and rolling them up into something that's going to be quite large and that does open up the door. The ceiling just got higher and that's very cool. Well, I know we are kind of running up against our time. I just want to thank you so much for taking time out of your insanely busy schedule to have this conversation with me today. It has been a pleasure, so informative and a lot of really good, actionable insights for people who are thinking about selling their business. I just have one final question for you. If somebody's listening and they're thinking and they're thinking to themselves, this is me. I'm ready for this, I'm going to take on this challenge and I think that my business might fit well into this avid health family. Are you open to having those conversations with people and, if so, how can you be reached?
Jen Lentz:Absolutely. I definitely want to offer, if anyone's curious or wants me to kind of explain something differently. Even if avid health is not the right opportunity and that's not your fit, we're not your fit. I definitely know enough people that I can put you with someone and answer questions that are kind of even if you're trying to figure out if you're ready that step one how do I know if I'm ready to sell? I'll chat all day, I'll ask you the really tough questions, and so I would be more than happy to field those and hop on the horn anytime. My email is jlentz@ avidhealthathome. com and, yeah, more than happy anytime to take any of those kind of questions.
Erin Vallier:Wonderful and we'll make sure that is in our show notes so people can get in touch with you.
Jen Lentz:I appreciate it, appreciate your time.
Jeff Howell:Home Health 360 is presented by AliyahCare. First off, we want to thank our amazing guests and listeners. To get more episodes, you can go to alayacare. com/homehealth360. That's spelled home health 360 or search Home Health 360 on any of your favorite podcasting platforms. The easiest way to stay up to date on our new shows is to subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We also have a newsletter you can sign up for on alayacare. com/homehealth360 to get alerts for new shows and more valuable content from AlayaCare right into your inbox. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.