Corporate Strategy
Corporate Strategy
181. How to Get Promoted
We tackle the controversial claim that "if career growth matters, 100% remote is a trap," exploring whether physical presence in an office truly impacts your ability to advance professionally. Through personal experiences and practical advice, we dissect when remote work might limit opportunities and when it's irrelevant to career progression.
• Remote work may create a ceiling specifically for executive-level advancement, not necessarily for mid-level promotions
• The most crucial factor isn't location but having explicit conversations with managers about growth expectations
• Timing career conversations strategically is essential – approach after successful projects when management is receptive
• Promotions happen when you consistently perform at the next level, not because of time served
• Creating a quantifiable framework for advancement removes the subjectivity from promotion decisions
• Management paths require a different mindset than individual contributor roles – consider carefully before choosing this direction
• Being proactive about creating visibility opportunities can help remote workers overcome some visibility challenges
Join our Discord community for games like "Is it AI?" where we challenge members to distinguish between AI-generated and real images. Share this podcast with friends and colleagues who are navigating remote work career paths.
Click/Tap HERE for everything Corporate Strategy
Elevator Music by Julian Avila
Promoted by MrSnooze
Don't forget ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ it helps!
I'm going up While Craig is jumping here, I'm elevating.
Speaker 2:He's already jumped in. You've already missed that opportunity.
Speaker 1:We've already started. I'm elevating. I can't see you.
Speaker 2:You couldn't have done this before. I can't see you.
Speaker 1:No, please wait. Please wait till I stand up.
Speaker 2:Clark is just under his desk like a child hiding from view from all of us. Thanks, thanks for letting me start the pod this way. You're the reason. You're the reason. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:They can't see this. If only people could see this and see what's happening around us.
Speaker 2:They have no idea what's going on. None, hey, you introduced the pod. We're going to re-brand the pod. Um. I don't know if you guys knew this or not, but um, clark is very good at marketing. Why don't you drop the new name on him?
Speaker 1:drop it on him, you want. You want me to say it. Well, yeah, I was saying how I'm tired of things being named things that they aren't like. What's a splunk? What's a? What's a Splunk? What's a Splunk? Do you know what a Splunk is? I?
Speaker 2:don't know what a Splunk is.
Speaker 1:What is a Hulu? Yeah, what's a Hulu. What's a Huli? What's a Yahoo? A Google? A Google is a thing. That is a thing.
Speaker 2:A Google is a thing. What is a Facebook A?
Speaker 1:Facebook. What is that? A Facebook? What is that? See, facebook kind of makes sense, myspace kind of made sense, yeah, but nowadays everything has these names.
Speaker 2:Everything has a goofy name. Yeah, it's ridiculous. Anyone who names their product a goofy name on purpose just the worst people, I agree. Yeah, that's the worst, that's the worst. There shouldn't be a lot in this podcast. That is for darn sure.
Speaker 1:So, especially when they come up with acronyms and then they use the acronyms to come up with a word and it just sounds absolutely ridiculous, those are the worst kind of people.
Speaker 2:You know, there was a trend for a while where all these companies Yahoo, facebook, google they put double O's in their name because it was like if you put a double O in your name it was bound to mean that you were going to be a success. Companies that followed suit with that. Just shameless, disgusting, despicable even. I agree.
Speaker 1:I agree Absolutely despicable, so throw out.
Speaker 2:CorporateStrategybiz Okay gone.
Speaker 1:Done Website deleted this is going to be a corporate-based self-help technology podcast.
Speaker 2:Rolls right off the tongue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's what I mean. Everybody just Googles that. They say, hey, chatgpt, please give me a satirical-based corporate technology podcast.
Speaker 2:Did you just Jepete? Did you Jepete, jepete? Is that the game? Is that the new game that the K-pop stars are all playing?
Speaker 1:Jepete, jepete, jeopardy, jeopardy Got it. Maybe that's what it's been all along. Chat Jeopardy.
Speaker 2:What is the question? Welcome back to Corporate Strategy. The podcast. That could have been an email. I'm Bruce and I'm Clark. Oh, sorry, I messed it up. Welcome back to the corporate podcast based on technology, corporate work, life, culture and how to get ahead in life and all things. The podcast that could have been an email. I'm Bruce and now we're talking. I'm Clark and after that 18 minutes, clark has just ran away. Clark ran away and he's running back. They can't see you. They cannot see you.
Speaker 1:Well, there was somebody at the door and I had to go check the door. But I'm back.
Speaker 2:I saw you open the door. No one was there. Literally no one was there.
Speaker 1:That's what you think. I saw something there.
Speaker 2:Vibe check. How are you?
Speaker 1:I got my pinky up. They can't see this. Hey, put your pinky up. How you doing? I'm in despair. Yeah, chaos, yeah, confusion, yeah, yep, that's how.
Speaker 2:I feel, yeah, let's just say, even on the weekend, Even on the yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Even on yeah this is weird because we're doing it on the weekend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this episode goes out tomorrow, so yeah, oh wow. This is like fast and furious Well how are we going to have time to?
Speaker 1:edit. We spend so much time editing this to make it so perfect.
Speaker 2:I'm going to pull an all-nighter. I don't know if you're going to be able to do it.
Speaker 1:I would offer to help, but I just can't even touch your masterpiece you just make it worse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just all-nighter, all nighter for old Bruce.
Speaker 1:Well, our boy doesn't sleep, Craig, so at least he'll be there with you. But yeah, yeah, yeah, all those things just because there's a new mandate, a new mandate for my company and I don't know how I feel about it. It's a return to office mandate, gross. Yeah, it's finally happening to me.
Speaker 2:It's happening.
Speaker 1:And I don't know, I don't know how to feel about it. So, for context, I started at my job pre-COVID and I was five days in the office, so like that that was normal. I worked here for a couple of years before that happened, so I've been here for quite a while. And then COVID happened. Obviously everyone went remote and then we came back to a hybrid, a hybrid workforce where we were three days in the office, two days at home. So it was really nice because you always got Mondays and Fridays. You always had that to look forward to as, like Friday you close out the week, you ease into your weekend and then Monday you kick it off right, because you got that time where you can focus and get things done and get all prepped for the week without being harassed by people in the office. And yeah, they said in 2026 to the office, for it's four days a week. It's not full five, but still four days a week.
Speaker 2:That's just yeah, you're done. You're shameful.
Speaker 1:It's tough, it's tough, so I'm dealing with that currently.
Speaker 2:I have come to the conclusion. I would not mind working at a location again, but it has to be less than 10 minutes from where I live.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, I got a decent commute. I got a decent commute on me.
Speaker 2:You have more than a decent commute.
Speaker 1:I would never. It's a bit of a haul.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't do that three days a week if I was you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's just too much of your life that's being taken away.
Speaker 1:I agree that's being taken away. I agree it's been. So I do agree with you, though, like something about the office. I've said it before in this podcast I do like being in with my team. I have a decent size team so it's just nice to be in person and see everybody that I work with. And so, like I love the split of three and two, like that's a really good split. But I think to your point, a commute on top of, you know, losing two more hours potentially having to commute and get ready for work and all that, like two more hours of my life just down the drain to commute every day and get ready for the office, it's it's a lot to ask, it's a lot to ask If public transportation was more readily available and if, um, you know, traffic wasn't just so stopping.
Speaker 2:You know, I feel like people drive worse than they ever have. I mean, like you know, this is actually true Texting and driving is more dangerous than drinking and driving. Now, really, and you can text and drive all day, right, people aren't drinking at seven in the morning, well, that's true. Office workers, so you are truly just at more risk. He's ran off again. He's ran off and now a cat has entered and it was replaced Clark. We have a cat as our new co-host. Anything you'd like to say Meow, meow, meow, meow, meow.
Speaker 1:That was an impersonation. That was not my cat, that was his cat. I just want to make that very clear.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you all speak cat. But it said Clark doesn't feed me enough, please feed me, speak cat. But it said Clark doesn't feed me enough.
Speaker 1:Please feed me, I'm hungry. Please, please. Honestly, this cat is ridiculous. It is driven by food. It is insane. This cat will do anything for food. It eats the dog's foods. It doesn't care. Cat's a monster. Cat's a monster.
Speaker 2:She's just hungry. Yes, I agree, the traffic is the worst. So I think that's and it's gotten really bad for us lately. I don't know why it's gotten worse and worse where we live, and you know, our area has just grown so much that traffic is just nightmarish. So I would only want to work within a I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't even go so far as to say 10 minutes. I want to be like. I want to be close enough to my work that I could come home have lunch if I wanted to, yeah, and not be a disruption, right, like I could come home take care of my dog if I needed to. That's how close I want the office to be to my house. So that's the only way I'll go back to an office. Fair enough, interesting. Interesting that you would bring that up as your vibe check.
Speaker 2:This topic, today's topic, actually comes from my wife, who has been on the pod before Sarah. She saw this post and thought it was really good for our pod and then I read it and I was like, yeah. So the title is If career growth matters, 100% remote is a trap. I'll read the body here Remote work is fantastic for life balance, but there's a harsh truth.
Speaker 2:If your goal is career growth, fully remote can actually hold you back. The people who can truly move your career sponsors, mentors, decision makers aren't part of your daily schedule or interactions. You don't bump into them on Teams calls and a virtual lobby won't replicate hallway conversations. Real career-moving moments are unplanned a quick chat by the coffee machine, overhearing a conversation that sparks an idea, or being in the right place at the right time. If you're fully remote, those moments never happen. You'll be productive, but you will also be invisible to the very people who could open doors for you. Full disclosure. If you work for a tiny company, this doesn't matter. In small teams, everyone interacts with everyone anyway. But in large organizations, physical presence still gives you access to opportunities you can't schedule or slack your way into, and that's the topic for today. Do you agree with this assessment? And if you, do.
Speaker 1:How do we?
Speaker 2:help.
Speaker 1:Maybe we should clarify a few things.
Speaker 2:All right, clarify Major career growth, major career growth. I think that, firstly, what does that qualify, as they don't say right.
Speaker 1:I think I think that matters. I think that matters a lot because at least in I work at a big firm Now we worked at a large firm before. I made small promotional jumps without being in person. Yeah, Like a manager, like software engineer to senior software engineer, manager to even senior manager. But then there's a rank of your career you get to specifically the executive rank that having a physical presence is the only way you're breaking that ceiling.
Speaker 1:Even if you do amazing work and you're never around. No one ever sees you. You're not going out and having dinners or going on business trips with people.
Speaker 2:You'll never break that ceiling let's remove the executive rank from this discussion, because one I don't think the majority of our listeners are aiming for vp and above right, like, let's, let's cap it off at director, because I agree with you, I do think for anything above the director level, if you're not at a completely remote company, which I am, um, you're not going to move past that, like it, it does require presence and we know that from our previous or at least the job we worked at together. I'm sure you know that from the job you work at now. Like, yeah, that is true, like, like you have to be there. It has to be a presence thing. Upper executive management presence is required, unless you're at a fully remote company or, like the poster says, a small company. So let's go director below, basically, you still have responsibility. It's not management or leadership, is it still true?
Speaker 1:I don't think so.
Speaker 2:I don't either, because I know I do think this is a perception.
Speaker 1:I agree. I agree with you Because I think back to where we worked before. I was promoted. My whole team was-. Yeah, we worked at Big Corp together. I was promoted, but my whole team was gone. Even my manager wasn't local.
Speaker 1:So I was the only one at our office from my team and I still was promoted even though I never saw them. I never even met them when I was promoted. I've just met them virtually. We just worked together virtually. And then I think to my company. Now I've promoted two people that were employed at the time of COVID before we went to the hybrid back in office, because they were remote, they lived elsewhere.
Speaker 1:And they did end up moving because they do have career aspirations that are way higher. So that was kind of the reality of the fact of any future growth that they want into the executive ranks are going to have to start building a presence. But I think they got promoted because they did great work and that's what companies should be looking at, not the physical presence. They did great work and that's what companies should be looking at, not the physical presence.
Speaker 2:What do you think?
Speaker 2:So tell me your personal story, personal story time. Can I agree with you? I think we're on the mark there. I got into marketing fully remote and met the guy one time at a conference. We talked and he's like you should join marketing and that's how I got there. But even thinking today.
Speaker 2:So I do work for a smaller company, so clearly take this with a grain of salt, but I've been at this company approaching four years now. I've been in my director role and you know I applied for a VP role. Didn't get it, wasn't experienced enough Like that's fine, I truly wasn't. And I don't think it would have been a good move for me anyway, given other political things about the job. And I don't think it would have been a good move for me anyway, given other political things about the job. But I said I need to move up, like I had that conversation. So I was given a career growth pamphlet, path, whatever you want to call it, but it basically outlines what I need to do over the next X number of months to hit my next step. I had that conversation with my manager Basically, hey, this didn't work out, but I need to grow. I need to show growth. What do I need to do to get there? And he provided me with an outline and, unfortunately for me, I'm doing like 90% of it today, so I'm in a good spot. That conversation led to me getting the thing I needed to clarify the rest of the steps that I need to take, which I'm going to do. It's as easy as that, and I think that the thing that people aren't comfortable doing is having that initial conversation right, basically saying like hey, I work hard, I feel that I bring great value to the company. What do I need to do to get the next step? And then, if there is not a next step, what do I need to do to further my growth and advancement here, whether it's in your department, another department, but you have to be able to have that conversation with either your manager, your direct report manager or skip level right, because there is the possibility that you're as high as you go under your current management strain and you need to have a skip level conversation with that next person and say, hey, look, I'm interested If I could like.
Speaker 2:I think the problem that the poster for this comment has, and a lot of people out there have. There is a fear that if you ask for something in corporate you'll get punished or they'll say no, and that's possible. No is always a possibility. But if you do have value with the company, if you are a good corporate worker and a corporate citizen, they're not just going to say no because they want to keep you.
Speaker 2:So you expressing interest in the next step one HR should have a career path growth plan for you, or a rough idea, or you go build one. But that first conversation is so important and if they do say hey, you're not ready, you say, well, what do I need to get there? Like, is there a career plan of path or growth that I can start working on, looking at? Can we build out a year-long plan? Can we build a six-month plan? You take that action. It's managing up and it's managing your growth and expectations of growth. But I don't think that matters if you're in a remote role or in a physical location, because it's really about you and your ability to execute based on the expectations of what comes next 100% agree.
Speaker 1:I think you get so many good tips there and something going back to the beginning of what you said that I think is really important to call out is you said they're afraid to ask because they could get told no. The way I'd rephrase that is the worst thing they could say is no, they're not going to fire you for asking for a promotion.
Speaker 1:You're saying hey, I want to dedicate more time to this company and be more dedicated to it and be more influential to it. Like the worst thing they're going to say is sorry, no, and like, if they do that, you kind of get your signs right there of like, okay, I probably don't want that anyways. If they're just going to flat out tell me no and then not give me any direction, this is probably the wrong place to be.
Speaker 2:Couldn't agree more, and I don't think that has anything to do with remote or not remote. Right, that's a management problem, not a remote slash, non-remote problem. I think the issue really comes in with. People don't have the kind of comfort with remote conversations that they had in person. When you did a meeting in your boss's office and you're sitting in the comfy chair, you're looking at them and they're at their desk, there might've been more camaraderie there and comfort than talking to a screen, which I can see that being a barrier for comfort and building up that relationship with your manager where you feel like I can have this conversation and even if they say no, I'm able to ask why or ask for more details and push forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, something I'd say is really important. Let me ask you this, ask me, let me lay this on you.
Speaker 2:Lay it on me. Let me lay this on you. This is a very important point. I don't even bring up things that I need sometimes because I read the web. I'm like I really need my boss to review this document, but it's not due for two weeks and they seem like they're dealing with a lot today. I'm not going to add to that. I might schedule hey, can I get 15 minutes on Thursday, like you know, just to follow up and then okay, they're a little more calm, even keeled now. Now I'm going to go in for the review, whatever, but I think that's a that's a bigger pro tip than just this is always read the weather when talking to management, especially about something as important as your career.
Speaker 1:Right. You got to know like, yeah, this is so key, it's. No, I don't think the remote versus physical has any bearing on it, but bringing up things at the right time is so critical to understand. When am I actually going to get the things I need? Do I have the right audience? Is it the right time to actually ask this? Like what you said, like I know I've been working with my boss for a long time and they're great, and I know they have bad days, they're human. Said like I know I've been working with my boss for a long time and they're great and I know they have bad days. They're human. Yeah, just like everybody else. Everyone does. Yeah, everyone has bad days.
Speaker 1:And if you're getting into the conversation, you know I always tell my team. I'm like, when you're doing skip level meetings with my boss, your boss's boss start with some softballs, just so you can gauge the temperature of the conversation. And I always have alternate plans. I don't even do this intentionally. I just know the things that I want to bring up depending on the context. I'm like, if things are burning hot, I'm going to stay away from these topics. I'm just not going to bring them up this time. I'll wait till the next time we talk.
Speaker 1:But if things are light and breezy and we're laughing and joking, I'm like here's the time when I can bring up the things that I want. This is when it's going to be most influential and they're going to want to have a conversation. But they'll be more open to it because it's the right time to ask about, you know, new staffing, when they're like don't you have enough resources If I need money, if I need, you know, travel approved, like all those things they can be real sticklers on because of budgetary reasons. But if the day is right, it's a really easy conversation. If the day is wrong, it's going to be a bad look and they're going to look at me and be like are you serious? You're asking that, and that's going to paint in their mind for the rest of the day. It's like I was burning hot.
Speaker 2:They asked these stupid things which made my day even run, even hotter, and now like I doesn't matter whether you're remote or whether you're a person, but build some rapport so you can read the room a little bit, because there's a time and place you should ask for things. There absolutely is, and I would take this one step further and say it's not even the weather of the day. If you're finishing up a big project, if you just got it over the finish line major milestones, celebration, achievement time that's a great time to check in with your boss and say, hey, I just finished this, we just launched this whole thing. It was a great success. You know, I'm so, I'm so happy we're through it. But, you know, thought we would have a conversation about what comes next. Right, Like it's such an easy end once you've done that, because you're coming off your own coattails. You did this big thing. Now it's time to have a conversation. Hey, we just shipped. We just shipped a product, we just finished a huge sprint. You know, I just laid off 20% of the staff because I'm in HR. Like, whatever you did, that's good and celebratory. That's when you go in for the. What are the steps? Let's have a conversation about that.
Speaker 2:And I think something else that's really worth pinning is promotions and growth. Don't just happen because you're there. It's a trap a lot of people fall into. I think bad organizations do this. Where you came in as an associate, you did your job. You got promoted to regular. You got promoted to senior. You were there five years. You get promoted to senior principal, whatever Time does not equal growth at a company. You could technically get promoted every year if you look at the path and plan and you're executing at that next level and that's the thing you have to be able to prove you can do the job that you're looking for, not the job you're in today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. No, I think those are all great tips. If you read the room, if you're having the conversation at the right time, I think those things are a combination for success. Yeah, because to your point, you can go in and be, like man, so proud of the team. We pulled an all-nighter last night. We got our fourth release done. In the first quarter we only committed to doing three. That's so huge. And then you can kind of ease into, you're like, okay, yeah, I feel like you know I'm stepping towards that next level, that senior level, whatever it is, and I'm already hitting my goals, as you can see. Like, what else do you need to see so that I can get to that next level? That's the perfect time.
Speaker 2:I love that it really is. And I think the other thing is you can't expect it to happen overnight, right, like it's never going to happen overnight. You have to be willing to work with the system. Hr is almost always involved in the process and you need to have the expectation that you're going to do more, because the whole reason you're getting promoted is because you're taking on more responsibility than what you had before. It might be different responsibility, but it's responsibility all the same. You don't just get promoted for existing yeah, a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:You can't just sit there and be like well, I've been here for 10 years, like I should be at that level, like that doesn't matter, like that gets you more doesn't matter Exactly.
Speaker 1:But if you're not having the right conversations with your manager, with people around you at the right time, so that that won't mean anything, cause, to your point, you're just going to get the standard bonus every year if the company does well, maybe a little bit more, which isn't a bad thing. Some people ride out of the company for like 20 years because every single year they have a great incentive program and they can basically just ride that wave for a long time and be perfectly happy. People should do that. That's not a bad thing.
Speaker 2:I think that's worth discussing too, because oftentimes promotion is sandwiched with pay raise, right, right and like the expectation is well, if I get a promotion, I get a big bump. Maybe, maybe, yes, you might get. It depends, uh. And I think the other thing that goes adjacent with this is you will reach a level where your next step is no longer doing the job you do today, plus plus plus. It is now management, and you really have to think long and hard about do I want to stop doing the work I'm good at, to start doing the work of managing people who are good at the job I used to do? And I made this mistake by saying, yes, I do, and I regret it every day of my life.
Speaker 2:So really think long and hard about that before you jump in and find yourself managing people, which you didn't really actually want to do, but you didn't know at the time, you didn't want to do it.
Speaker 1:It's funny because I'm on the opposite side of that trajectory. It was hard because you go and I'm actually having this conversation with someone on my team about this right now and it's so hard because you go through your career and what gets you promoted is doing really, really well at executing. Whatever it is you do best, whether it's programming, marketing, whatever and then you get to a point, to your exact point. There it's once you get into management, you're no longer doing those things. No, now you're not judged on those things. It doesn't matter if you pulled an all-nighter and you got one thing done. It matters.
Speaker 1:What is your team doing? Like, is your team executing? Are you doing more than you can do individually? That's the way I look at it is saying you hit a point when you have to ask yourself am I okay just doing all that I'm doing now? Or with a team, could I have larger influence? You know, do even better work. And that was kind of the pivot point for me is saying I love being an executor, but I can only do so much on one person.
Speaker 1:You know, if I had a team and I could build this team and kind of grow them the way that I have grown throughout my career. I think we can, you know, do 100x what we're doing now, depending on the size of the team, and so that's the fun part. But it is challenging to get your head out of that mode of saying I can pull an all-nighter and get this done, because then when you have a team, it's like I can't, that's four people's jobs right there, I can't do that by myself. And then you get fulfillment from your team doing well and your team growing, which is like a totally different side of the coin that you're not prepared for. Once you go into management, you're like wait, the things that I did yesterday don't matter in my role today. And the answer is yes, that's true.
Speaker 2:Unless you're at a startup, in which case you have to do the job you used to do, plus management. You do both, which let me tell you what a treat, what a pleasure and a privilege it is.
Speaker 1:I have an interesting angle on this too. At some companies there is no defined career path. But if you love the company and I did this at my current company I was a high achiever. I got onto the right projects, which got me a lot of visibility and I've grown quite a bit. I've been like a quick riser in my company now.
Speaker 1:But what I wanted to do is, once I went into management to your point is, I told myself, I'm going to influence change, to make this easier for my team to understand how they can grow and not just make it like, oh yeah, bruce has been doing all this stuff. He feels ready and like nothing quantifiable. I write up a few like points of projects he was on and like that's it. I'm like I want to tell my team definitively you are meeting the expectations of your current level and actually you're meeting the expectations of the next level too. So we have to promote you. Like there's no way we can just sit here and be like, eh, it doesn't feel right. Like there's no way we can just sit here and be like, eh, it doesn't feel right, maybe not. It's like you are doing the things, and so for the last year and a half, maybe even longer, with my team I've been building kind of a framework for how to show that someone's going above and beyond their current role, so that when we get into these conversations we have a standard to work off of and we can basically say, well, this person's meeting this criteria at the meets expectations. This person's needs development. This person is actually going above and beyond. So that way it's no longer like this gray, does it feel right? Conversation it's more of black and white. Are they doing the things they should be doing or not? And are they doing the things that they should be doing at the next level?
Speaker 1:If the answer is mostly yes, it's likely time for a promotion. Yeah, yeah, I, it's likely time for a promotion. Yeah, yeah, I've had the fortunate. I would say I'm kind of fortunate in a way that the group I work in has grown from like five people to like 70, 80 people now. So like I've gotten the benefit of being able to do this as I've grown. And define this for people coming up like, as you're evolving, a part of an organization, I would say, if you're already in an established organization and you're just like, yeah, you know, just when it feels right and you have a thousand people in your organization. That's not a good sign, because being able to influence that change is going to be really, really hard and there might just be stuck in the ways that they do things and in this case, all the way back to the original prompt.
Speaker 2:You may have to make a physical presence to make any movement with that type of situation. Yeah, and I think that's the trick is I do believe that you can find companies that fall into both sides of the answer and if it's a completely physical company, you need to be on site anyway. You are belaboring this at the beginning of the pod. You're getting asked to go in more. You're not going to deal with this problem for very much longer. Your remote presence it will completely vanish in the next few years. Other companies that are going full remote they have the opposite problem, where there's still some people still in offices as they transition out, or hybrid companies. That's going to be really hard.
Speaker 2:That's why it's so important to get those quantifiable career path development plans and if your boss doesn't have it, you need to have a conversation with them and say, hey, how do we build this? Do we need to work with HR? Do we need to look at other companies out there? But I want to make sure that I know what I need to be doing, that I'm not doing today to get to my next step, because that shows that you're invested in you and what you need to do for that next step. There's really no arguing with it, right, Like they can't say no to that because for them it's pure career development and guidance.
Speaker 2:If you're not doing some report they want you to start doing. They can tell you and you can start doing it. Then you can have that conversation. Hey, I'm doing this report now, so I'm doing my job plus the report. What's next? Like, keep building, keep adding on and you'll get there, Unless your boss sucks and he's just, you know, giving you more work because they don't want to do it themselves. But outside of that, outside of that weird off chance happenstance, you have to be able to push for your own growth, and that's really something I've learned at startup. Right Is no one's going to define that for you. You have to help define it for yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and that's that's, I think, the best thing you can do. I think maybe, as a follow-up, we should do the next episode on this part, which is how do you manage up? So that way you can be given the opportunity to do the thing that you need to do to get to the next level. Because there is a point I think it's even worse at a remote company where you don't know the conversations that are happening outside of your realm, but because you're not getting the right FaceTime, because you're not in the right rooms, because you're not doing the right presentations, you're not getting that visibility to get you to that next level. And so I think maybe in the next episode we kind of break that down of, like, how do you break through that ceiling of being like Bruce as my boss? I know I build these presentations for you every month. Do you think I could have a shot at presenting them, like all the work our team's doing and like different tactics, like that to try to get to the next level?
Speaker 2:This will be perfect for the next episode because actually on my plan, I need to have a conversation with my manager about this. There is a thing that I was like I used to have insight into this I no longer do. How do I go about achieving this now, Like, and I will have that conversation with my boss and I can report back during the next episode about what I learned and how I can help you all do the same. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think that's the hard real time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you actually no-transcript because you're succeeding right, like you're giving something up for them, which is one less thing that you have to do. That's a great problem to have, and the counter to this is, as a manager, I'm starting to have conversations with individuals on my team for their next steps, as I'm planning my next steps, because I don't want to do all of this stuff in my next role. I want them to do more, so it does go both directions.
Speaker 1:As a manager, I can tell you there's no better feeling than presenting in a meeting forever and then someone on your team being ready and you being able to step back and just sit watch, smile as they're just crushing it. It's like that was incredible. Less work for me and they're absolutely crushing it. It's like that was incredible. Less work for me and they're absolutely crushing it, which would be great for their career. Everyone's looking at this and saying, yeah, clark's actually doing really well, because bruce is doing well.
Speaker 2:Let's do it well, we'll save it for the next episode. Then managing up. Stay tuned up. Before we leave. There is something that you have been teasing for months now. Oh my gosh, I feel terrible it's been years.
Speaker 2:It's been years and we're hungry for a burger and we want to know. In our corporate strategy podcast show notes you can click the link all the things you can join our Discord. In our Discord we play a couple of games. One is called what Do you Mean, where you make a meme of the previous episode. One is called what Do you Mean, where you make a meme of the previous episode. One is called Is it me or is it corporate, where you can forward slash, confess and put your corporate sin in there and we'll tell you if it's you or if it's corporate. It's completely anonymized. But the third, our newest game we play Is it AI? Clark posted a picture Eight months ago.
Speaker 1:It was not even three weeks ago, but okay.
Speaker 2:Eight months ago he posted a picture of the Discord. It's absolutely been chewing us all up inside. He even made us vote on it. It's two pictures of a hamburger. Both pictures look good, but one looks better. I said number two is not AI Clark. Would you please do us the honor of telling us which of these is real?
Speaker 1:We have the left and the right, the one or the two, and in the game you have to vote on which one is the AI. Oh no, don't tell me, Don't tell me, you got this flipped, alright, okay, revote, revote, live.
Speaker 2:Which one is AI? The one on the left? The one on the left is AI. Number one. I changed my vote. A real-time vote. I misread. The real burger is the burger on the right-hand side, number two. Number two. I'm sticking with it. Okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:You just broke the news. That is 100% true. I was shocked because there were a few people who said it, including you, which said the right-hand side was the AI generator. I was like, wow, is it that indistinguishable?
Speaker 2:I am dyslexic and I misread everything, so I believe the number two image to be the real image. I stand by that. I stand by that with all of my being.
Speaker 1:And you're right. Number two is the real image. The left-hand side is the AI-generated one, but this proves my point. How do you know? Tell me what are the signs.
Speaker 2:It's the bread, especially if you look at bread number one, the rim around the bottom of the top piece of bread and the bottom of the bottom piece of bread. It's it's too flat. There's no imperfections and bread has lots of little imperfections because you know it's chemistry happening there. The middle, all of the bread that's not the edges looks right but the edges look wrong. I think it's really hard to create something organic like that with AI. It's great at you know big picture, but it lost me on the bread. The bread is what gave it away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I also think the, the, the cheese is a telling sign, like to your point around, like chemistry, like when cheese melts, it's never perfect because unless you have like a perfectly heated piece of cheese with like a gun like you see on the, like a heat gun, you know, on the right-hand side you can just see it's oozing out places like towards the edge, the corners are kind of like perfect, because it's not getting equally distributed heat, but like in the middle the heat is just right on it Like there's nothing hanging.
Speaker 1:So it kind of like doesn't keep the perfection if you will now you know.
Speaker 2:What's funny is I actually thought the cheese was pretty good because I just assumed it was crappy cheese like it's that crappy fake processed cheese, whiz cheese, and that is why it looks so yellow and goop. Yeah, because it's just fake. I will also say the funny thing is the tomatoes, yeah, uh, or are they onion like? And that's the thing is like it's almost onion purple on the left, but look at the lip, but it's really supposed to be tomato.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look at the lip. And if you're not, if you're not in the Discord, this is your perfect time to actually look at the image with us. The lip on the left tomato the bottom of it matches identically with the one on the right. So it was clearly trained on this image to recreate the tomato look, but it just the color's a little off, like it's like am. I a tomato or am I an onion?
Speaker 1:I don't know which one? I 100% agree. That definitely looks like what it is. Yeah, but it's still like as you look at these, which is the crazy part lighting shadows reflections. It's a great image it is such a good image and like, even like the burger, like the way the camera like fades it out and everything like, as you look between them, you're like holy cow, it's really hard to tell and so we had a lot of people get this wrong and I I totally get why.
Speaker 1:This is why we're continuing this channel, this, uh, this kind of challenge, because I think it's only going to get harder to distinguish. We need to train ourselves. Yeah, if they get burgers right, how long is it going to be before they get humans?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's true, and I mean the. The sad truth of it is, this is a challenge, right? We have two images side by side, so we have the ability of like, really looking at it and guessing. But if you just posted the picture of that burger and didn't include the comparison, how many people would actually say that I think that's AI? Like I don't even know if I would. I don't know if that picture by itself just posted on a random channel on the Discord Just ate this today, I'd be like man, he's a good food photographer, but I wouldn't think that's AI. I just think, oh, it's a good looking burger. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Because I'm not looking for it right, Like I'm not looking for it and it's good enough that it could fool me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100% agree. Now we still do have one out there which wasn't really asked if this is AI or not. It's the crab, the very first post in this channel, the crab. That crab is real. We never got an answer, but I am convinced too that there's no way this crab is not real. I'm zooming in on it right now it's got to be real.
Speaker 2:That's a real crab. It's got to be real. Crabs are aliens and AI can't do alien.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's why we need Aiki to answer this. We need Ake to answer this, ike. We need Ike to get in the Discord and tell us was this AI or not, because, yeah, I agree with you, I think it's just an awesome crab that they found.
Speaker 2:Who doesn't love an awesome?
Speaker 1:crab, I agree. Well, hey, that's the first of the challenge. I got to do another one. Maybe one a month. Yeah, maybe one a month. Yeah, maybe one a month. Let's do it Like we'll do one for October or something, and if other people want to post in here, they are more than welcome to. But I think this is going to be really interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm ready. This is good. I like this. This is a fun one. Again, if you're not in the Discord, you're not just missingically in real time. We have whole channels about marketing yourself, about local events, mentorship, news everything is in there. You should be in there, you should join the conversation with us. It is our corporate fam discord and you can join it for free. Just click the link and do it. The other thing you can do if you want to support the show is share this with your friends, family, neighbors, or if you don't like sharing, you can make a donation through the buy us a coffee link, Also in that same little doobly-doo. Anything else, Clark? No.
Speaker 1:I love a doobly-doo. Yeah, share, buy a baby onesie, do it all. We have a swag store. Yep, what do you mean? What do you mean? Chips, everything, everything you could ever want is there.
Speaker 2:Get in there, get in there, and next week, like Clark Tease, we will follow up with a Managing Up episode. So if you have any questions about Managing Up, post them in the Discord and the Corporate Strategy channel specifically and we will tackle them head on.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, apply directly to the forehead Could add a VA, apply directly to the forehead. Could have had a VA, remember that. Could have Not sponsored. Oh yeah, not sponsored, but you could have had a VA.
Speaker 2:Yeah Tang, it's a kick in the glass.
Speaker 1:VA doesn't exist anymore, right.
Speaker 2:V8 Splash.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I haven't seen it.
Speaker 1:I love when you come back from a good old old company who's great at marketing and you're just like are they still alive? Is that a thing? V8 splash. All right, hold on, maybe vegetable juice. V8 splash juice drinks. No, it says, you can have a Target.
Speaker 2:I was going to say I think I had tomato juice on my flight back from Colorado and I believe it was a V8. Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1:Could have had a V8. They need to bring that marketing slogan back.
Speaker 2:That was great. I mean Tang. Bring back Tang. You know it's a kid in a glass Now in the pouch.
Speaker 1:Mmm.
Speaker 2:Mmm, mmm, it's what plants crave. Hey, appreciate you, clark. Hey, you too, thanks as always. Thanks as always for bringing the heat and hopefully your situation, with your commute and your office, resolve themselves peacefully and kindly. It's the best we can hope for here's hoping here's hoping.
Speaker 2:But until then, thank you as always to our listeners for tuning in. Do share the pod. It's the only way we grow, we appreciate. Until then, thank you as always to our listeners for tuning in. Do share the pod. It's the only way we grow. We appreciate you, we thank you and until next time I'm Bruce and I'm Clark and you're on mute. We'll see you next week.
