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Develop Yourself
To change careers and land your first job as a Software Engineer, you need more than just great software development skills - you need to develop yourself.
Welcome to the podcast that helps you develop your skills, your habits, your network and more, all in hopes of becoming a thriving Software Engineer.
Develop Yourself
#264 - Stack Overflow's 2025 Developer Survey: Surprising Takeaways on AI, Coding Languages and Work
Every year, Stack Overflow surveys nearly a 100,000 developers to learn what technologies, languages and tools are trending.
The answers here might surprise you, especially when it comes to AI tools.
You can check out the survey here: https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2025/developers/
Shameless Plugs
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Zubin's LinkedIn (ex-lawyer, former Googler, Brian-look-a-like)
Welcome to the Develop Yourself podcast, where we teach you everything you need to land your first job as a software developer by learning to develop yourself, your skills, your network and more. I'm Brian, your host. Let's see what the 2025 developer survey from Stack Overflow has to tell us. Why do I like this survey so much? Stack Overflow is an incredibly popular website, or at least it was before the age of AI, but it's still really really popular compared to many other websites where people can go and find the answers to coding-related questions. Now, a few years ago, this was the only place you could really find these kinds of questions. Before AI, before ChatGPT, you basically had to figure out what was going on with your code by looking at Stack Overflow, hoping to God somebody had the same bug and then thanking them silently as you ripped off their code and pasted it into your project. Just kidding Hope you're not really doing that. Anyway, they do a really big survey every year. I find a lot of value in this, especially if you're a newer developer and you're wondering huh, what are software developers actually using? There's a lot of junk online from people who claim to be software developers or have never really worked in the field. Or maybe they just recently graduated and they have these really loud microphones and they tell you what you should be learning and why you shouldn't do this or why you should do that. Maybe I'm one of these people and now this offers you some data that you can actually use to decide. Hmm, maybe I should look into these tools. Maybe I should abandon these tools. Maybe there are things that I should be aware of that I'm not.
Speaker 1:Let's dig in and look at the most interesting parts of this survey, because there are a few interesting parts in here that I think are going to surprise many software developers out there, who are either learning to code, wondering about how much AI they should use and what AI means for the future of software development in general, and a little bit about who is your average developer in the US, because I think there's a lot of myth around that and a lot of social media spin going on with who is your archetype developer. Everybody thinks it's some 25-year-old dude in a hoodie somewhere in a cafe. It's probably not that far from the truth, but let's dig in and see who really are these weirdos out there. So let's kick it off with age. I deal with this a lot when I talk to people who are interested in going to Parsity and it's so funny to me People think I'm 25. Am I too old to learn to code? I'm like, ok, that's a silly question. 30, am I too old to learn to code? I'm like that's kind of dumb too. 40, am I too old to learn to code? You're getting maybe towards the point where you might want to reconsider. 50,. Then I'm like, okay, that's getting a little up there. 60. I'm like, well, you might have like five years left in the industry at this point because you're going to retire ideally before you're 70. But if you're between the 20 and 40, and you're like seriously thinking this is a thing, just stop asking that ridiculous question. So most developers fall between the 25 to 44 year old range, which may surprise a lot of people. They're like wait what? And if we go to professional developers, we see that number is even higher in the 25 to 34-years-old age range Learning to code. Of course, the majority of people are between 18 and 24. Now Stack Overflow added this really odd tab. It says professionals using AI. I mean, what does that even mean? I'm a professional using AI. I don't know what that means, but again we see that, yes, most developers are somewhere between 25 and 44, with 45 to 54-year-olds actually at the same share as 18 to 24-year-olds. I find that really interesting. So there are as many 45 to 54-year-old software developers as there are 18 to 24-year-old software developers. So think about that next time you have that ridiculous question about asking if you're too old to learn to code, at like 25 or something like that Ridiculous.
Speaker 1:Now, when it comes to education, I think this is an important thing to look at, because too often we hear this myth that anybody can learn to code. You don't need a college degree. I'm guilty of saying this myself, but I want to look at the facts here. The facts are that 45% of software developers professional software developers have a bachelor's degree. 28% have a master's degree, and let's see how many just have some college 11%. How many only went to secondary school? 5%. How many only went to primary elementary school? 0.8 percent. Now, stick a pin in this one, because I think this is going to be interesting when we look at the resources people are using to learn to code.
Speaker 1:Now, causation does not equal correlation or whatever statistical phrase I'm trying to conjure up here. What I'm trying to say is just because these people have a bachelor's degree doesn't necessarily mean that that was the key to their employment. I'm just saying culturally, if you're going to be in this industry, you have to realize that the majority of your peers are going to have some sort of advanced degree or a bachelor's degree. That is the reality. If you have a high school degree, obviously you can break into this industry. There are less and less requirements, but the majority of the people you're going up against are going to have these degrees.
Speaker 1:Remember that last stat we're looking at, where it said that you know whatever percent went to college? Right, a bunch went to college. Most people that learn to code learn from technical documentation 70%. Nearly. That is mind-blowing. Other online resources around 60%. And we go to blogs and podcasts 35%. Do people really learn how to code from a podcast? That's pretty wild. Online courses certifications 32%. Stack overflow is actually pretty high up there. Now look at this. College and school is really far down there 25%. 16.6% said they learned in school how to code.
Speaker 1:Coding bootcamp is at 5%, really really low, honestly. And if you go to coding bootcamp for younger people it's higher, which is kind of interesting to me. I think the whole notion that coding bootcamps are dead or they're such a stupid way to learn. I don't believe that. I'm also super biased because I own, essentially, a coding bootcamp. But I'm like you don't have to go to college, you don't have to self-teach, you don't have to go to a bootcamp. You can do one or all of those things as long as it helps you get into the industry. When we go to 25 to 34-year-olds, about 6% also went to a bootcamp. 35 to 44-year-olds, only 4% went to a bootcamp, and the number goes lower the higher you get, because boot camps really haven't been around that long. But I do find it interesting that younger people are almost twice as likely to have attended a coding boot camp than people that are around my age, which actually tracks me. Why would you want to spend all that money going to a school if you could go to a program and in one year pay like $10,000 to $20,000 versus $40,000 to $100,000 for a degree that you may not need anyway? And when you look at how people actually learned to code, school is pretty far down there and that's a really big investment to have not much return on that investment.
Speaker 1:Now let's get down to the part where everybody's curious about AI, and this question was did you spend time in the last year learning AI programming or AI-enabled tooling on your own or at work? Now, for me, specifically as a software developer, I learned a lot on the job and a lot off the job about how to use AI tooling, like Cursor Claude, and then beyond the surface too. I read some books on large language models, vector databases, retrieval, augmented generation. I went down a little bit of the rabbit hole. I learned a little bit of linear algebra. There's so much more interesting stuff out there than what's just on the surface, which is how do I prompt to get code in my editor? That is just so superficial and it's really cool. Don't get me wrong. That is a really great use case, but it's so superficial.
Speaker 1:So only 36% of respondents says yes, I learned how to use AI-enabled tools required for my job or to benefit my career. This is a bit shocking. I'm a little concerned reading some of this because I'm thinking what does that mean for the rest of these developers that aren't doing this exactly? Only 31% said yes, I learned how to use AI-enabled tools for my personal curiosity and or hobbies. Well, I have to imagine that really only around 36% said yes. That's almost 70% of people are not like learning this stuff. This is, yeah, this is a little crazy. I'll just be honest. I don't know if I'm reading this correctly or not, but if I'm reading that only 36% of people actually took time to learn this stuff, then I'm like what is everybody doing? Are you just either one pretending the tools don't exist, two, you're not allowed to use them at work and so you're not using them at home, or three people just misunderstood the question?
Speaker 1:I don't know, but I do see this means that the people who are learning this AI is not going anywhere, as much as I understand that it has a lot of pitfalls and the hype often outpaces the reality. I've been very vocal about that. I'm also maybe not as vocal maybe I should be that I love these tools. They make my job a hell of a lot easier and they allow me to do things that I normally couldn't Like. I could go into a Python code base or a C sharp or rusts a code base I'm not super familiar with and through applying general best practices I can actually contribute to that code base in a way that I never could before, much faster than I ever could before. So not learning how to use these tools is a crazy. It's like playing chicken with your career a little bit. It's like shooting yourself in the foot like just why would you do that right?
Speaker 1:Next question is how did you learn to code for AI in the past year? So it looks like the majority of people say AI, code generation tools or AI-enabled apps. The next most popular was other online resources. Like they went online, basically, and just learned from some online resource Technical documentation, videos and then blogs and other stuff further down the line and the least amount of people responded that they went to a coding boot camp to learn these things. I mean, really the only way to quote unquote learn this stuff is to just do it right. Like there's no way to learn how to use AI code generation tools without literally using them. And so if you're a newer developer which is mostly the people that I speak to in the audience that I know watches this show the most then you might feel like, whoa, maybe I need to get on this immediately. Hold your horses right. You definitely need to learn these tools. You need to learn them at this exact moment.
Speaker 1:Here's my super opinionated opinion of when you should learn how to use AI code generation tools when you don't need them. When you can write an app, when you can write functions and build a small app or a full stack app, deploy it, understand some of the basic processes for backend and frontend deployment and deploy those two separate types of apps independently and write code from scratch that mostly works, then you're ready to use AI code generation tools. Until that point, you're not going to get much value out of them, besides just making a bunch of junk that you don't even know is junk really really, really fast. So until you're able to distinguish good code from bad code and don't need the assistance of the AI tool, I wouldn't use them. The moment you're getting frustrated and thinking, oh my God, I got to write all this code to refactor this because I messed up in this. I should have used this pattern. If you ever think, man, I should have used this particular pattern in this code base and now I have to refactor it and, oh my God, that's going to take so long, then you're definitely at the point when you should probably be using code generation tools Because, one, you can identify a pattern in a code base. Two, you realize that you made a mistake. So you're realizing oh man, the code I wrote was not so good. I should have done this way. And now you're doing the tedious, boring work that an AI tool would be good at, because it has really clear direction. You're like man. I should have used the facade pattern instead of using a direct implementation of this particular class or this library or something like that. Dang it so dumb. Now you can pull the AI tool out of your hat, right? Until then, maybe avoid it.
Speaker 1:Okay, next section what is it that developers actually do? What are the roles that developers are actually in? Let's look at the United States, because I'm in the United States myself and I'm not really tripping on what you other people out there in other countries doing. Usa, okay, the majority of developers are full stack. This is like for the fifth year in a row I've read this. Now here's the interesting part we go down to front end. Front end was what most coding bootcamps were teaching a while ago, and I actually went to like a purely front-end coding bootcamp when I was trying to break into the industry after learning a little bit of code myself. They make up 3.5% of professional developers.
Speaker 1:This is a little troubling and also good to know, because I think, if you're only going the front-end route, I just increasingly see this as a job that AI may be able to creep further and further into, and I see that most companies, because they're getting smaller, they're hiring less. They want to have people that can do more. Now they're hiring more quote unquote full stack people as good at front end as back end. It certainly could. It could also just mean that are you able to go to the front end? Are you able to go to the back end? Are you able to investigate those areas and make changes? People tend to lean heavily towards one side or the other. I've met full stack developers that are mostly back end and just know some CSS, and I've met mostly front end developers that know, like some Node Express or maybe like Python or something like that, and that's enough. They know some cloud services, they know how to do that and that's, honestly enough. Don't fall into this trap of thinking I need to be equally good at either thing. Just know that companies are mostly looking for this and this data reflects that. And you go further down.
Speaker 1:Data engineers only make what? 1.9%? Now this is where I'd be careful because just reading this you may think well dang data engineers like going extinct, or DevOps going extinct, or engineering managers going extinct. No, they just typically take up less share of engineering roles than full stack backend developers, right? Ai, ml engineers, data scientists. You typically just need less of these people in an organization you typically have. The most of your budget is going to be spent on full stack developers. But that's just my warning that if you're only looking at front end roles or you're going strictly for front end, I think you're really going to be limiting yourself. And if you already know front-end, it's really not that hard to know some back-ends. So stop being scared of it and learn some of that, because I can guarantee you it's going to help you in your job search and in your career in general.
Speaker 1:I love this next section. It says what industry do you work in? If I look at professional developers, 60% work in software development. What does it even mean? Now, the rest of it is really really skewed. It's like half of the people work in quote-unquote software development. The rest just work in kind of random industries fintech industries, internet banking, manufacturing, retail, transportation, higher education, other media, computer, energy, insurance. The list goes on and on and on and on. Now, I often talk about this because what you see online is that people you know they work for you know Netflix, google, you know Amazon. These are the people that take up the majority of space online because they have really interesting jobs. They get paid an astronomical amount of money to write code for a living for the most part, right, these are really interesting stories.
Speaker 1:The boring reality is that most of his work in industries and companies that you'll never, ever hear of making higher than average salaries that aren't astronomical, right? Like if I shared my salary with you and said I make, you know, a quarter million or something in the Bay Area, people might say, oh, okay, either that's a lot to you or it's not that much to you. But if somebody says I make $800,000 a year as an individual contributor at Amazon, then you're like what your mouth drops open, right? Somebody says I make 200K. You know, and I'm 11 years in my career, I made a quarter million or 300,000, or even you know 350,000. You might say, wow, that's a lot of money, but it's not like jaw-dropping, earth-shattering YouTube thumbnail money, right, it's not YouTube thumbnail money worthy, or maybe it is, I don't know, maybe my brain is warped from being in the Bay Area. I remember being really, really broke and growing up kind of broke, and I remember making my first check when I made like 120K in the Bay Area and I thought what the hell's going on? Did they make a mistake? Are they gonna fire me? Do I even deserve this? Maybe I should tell them to pay me less. This is how warped my brain was back then. Now my brain is warped in the opposite direction, where I'm like I should probably be making around half a million a year Ridiculous, don't chase money. It's an endless pit that will never end, but it is fun to do as a game if you're into that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Technologies what is the most popular technology among professional developers? Wouldn't you know it? Everybody's most hated language, javascript. Next up is HTML and CSS. Who would have known right? Then Python is below SQL. Then you have TypeScript and C Sharp. The boring things that everybody says you shouldn't learn are the things that you should learn.
Speaker 1:Hey, I hope you're enjoying this episode. Now you know that I own an anti-bootcamp with my buddy Zubin, an ex-Google software engineer, if you're interested in not just learning how to code and you know it's gonna take more than three months and you're serious about making a transition into a career in software and you wanna work with people that have done it before and are currently working in senior plus levels? Join me and Zubin at parsityio slash inner dash circle. You can learn all about our philosophy, how we approach learning how to code and switching careers in a much different way, and how we have so much gosh dang success. If you're interested in being one of the few people that works with us this year, go and apply at parsityio slash inner dash circle.
Speaker 1:And now back to the episode Python, sql, typescript, javascript, html and CSS. Are these really even worth telling people? Let's see what learning to code people are learning. This is funny. Learning to code. People are overwhelmingly learning Python and C and JavaScript. This is what the internet has done, I believe, and maybe schools too. If you're learning how to code, I'm not surprised to see that C is in there, because you're probably learning that in your courses and part of your coursework.
Speaker 1:I'm just curious what professionals that use AI, what this is. This is such an interesting, weird, like shoehorned category in here, not sure why they added this. Even these people are using JavaScript, typescript, python, c, sharp, sql. Okay, no big surprises there. Stop chasing shiny languages or hearing people say JavaScript sucks, it's the stupidest language in the world and you're an idiot if you learn it. Okay, well then we're all idiots, right? Because everybody has to know JavaScript when it comes to databases. This should be no surprise for you. Let's look at what professional developers are using. They're using SQL, postgres, mysql, sqlite, microsoft SQL Server. Next is Redis and then Mongo. So, basically, if you learn SQL and Mongo, you've kind of taken care of like the majority of databases out there Now.
Speaker 1:I made a bold prediction last year that Pinecone would be on this list this year, and I do not see Pinecone. I owe you $5. If you remember that episode, I owe you $5. If you remember that episode, I owe you $5. I'm so disappointed in myself. I cannot believe that Pinecone is not on here. Pinecone is a vector database. I will be doing an episode on databases later because I think that's an interesting topic that you don't hear enough about. So so sad not to see Pinecone on here.
Speaker 1:Let's see what people who are learning to code are learning. They're all learning SQL and they're learning MongoDB, and then they're learning Redis and they're using Firebase. Oof, I just used Firebase for work. Let me tell you, not a fan, not a big fan of using Firebase. It's great to get something started. Would I actually want to use it as an actual database somewhere? 100%, no, 100%, no. It's like having a really big JavaScript object. It's crazy. I'm like are people really building full apps with Firebase? I don't know, maybe for data analytics? Anyway, that's a whole other topic.
Speaker 1:Let's look up cloud development now. What are people using, who are professional developers? They're using Docker, they're using NPM, they're using AWS and they're using PIP, which is the installation tool for Python. I mean, again, there's really no surprises here. So this is not something that I would want to take too much time to even dig into, but I think knowing a little bit of Docker could be really, really helpful, and I don't mean like actually taking a course on Docker. I really don't think that's a smart thing to do. In my opinion, I think just understanding a little bit about what Docker does at a high level and understanding a little bit about the configuration files is going to give you a lot of bang for your buck.
Speaker 1:When it comes to web frameworks and technologies, let's see what professional developers are using Nodejs, react you wouldn't believe this jQuery, and then Nextjs, and then NET, then Express, angular, vue, spring Boot all the way down. Again the boring, boring stuff. Here the winners right Nodejs has won the game, react has won the game, nextjs has won the game. At the moment Angular is below Express. And then it gets even funnier here Angularjs, which I'm shocked people are still using. And then I'm a little bit sad to see Ruby on Rails getting pretty far down the list here. I mean, I think that's becoming an aging framework that I personally really liked, but people just aren't using very much.
Speaker 1:What are people using for their developer environments? What are they writing code in? Are people still using sublime text? You must be a little bit old if you know about sublime text. Let's see what professional developers are using. It's probably no surprise Everybody's using VS Code. So if you're not using VS Code, you should be, and you should be understanding the shortcuts there how to use it efficiently.
Speaker 1:Knowing how to use your tools is super important, and the cool thing is, because the industry is consolidated around certain tools, that knowing how to use them immediately helps you integrate into any team you're on. So if you know how to use Visual Studio Code pretty well. Then when you start your first job or you start on a new team, it's like you already know most of the shortcuts and working styles of using VS Code and how you shortcuts and work with your team members using it. So that's a really good thing to spend a little bit of time getting good at, because I can't tell you how frustrating it is when you're working with somebody and they don't know how to use their code editor at all. It's like they're just bumbling around with like thumbs for fingers and you're like what the hell Like don't you use this every single day? Why not just get kind of good at it? I had a senior developer tell me that to my face a long time ago. He's like I'm not working with you until you have some shortcuts down, because this is painful for me to sit here and watch as we pair a program. That was kind of mean, but he was very right and I did and I'm very happy he told me that. So thank you, mean developer out there, wherever you are. This guy used to eat salad with his hands, by the way, he was a bit of a weirdo, but so so smart. Only really smart people can get away with eating salad with their hands. By the way, visual Studio is next up Notepad++ I don't know what to say about that and further down is Cursor, which I'm a little bit shocked. Cursor is the AI-enabled editor of the future At least that's how they paint it Really really good.
Speaker 1:I switched completely from Visual Studio Code to Cursor. Cursor is actually a fork of, or basically a clone of, visual Studio Code, so technically, all of us are still using Visual Studio Code. It just has AI integrated inside of it. I'm now using Claude for the most part, so I'm using Claude code mostly, and I'm shocked to see only 10% of developers are using Cloud Code. Probably at the time this survey was done, which I remember was a few months ago, I wasn't using Cloud Code. I was still really into Cursor. Now I've completely moved to Cloud Code. Well, I use a combination I use Cloud Code and I use Cursor. And let me tell you, cloud Code is really good. I love that. It's in the terminal. I love that I can have context between two different projects and if I want to move things between projects or reference code or logic that lives in the other one, I can, and that's really, really cool. So I highly recommend that when you're at the point that you want to use tools, explore cloud code, explore cursor, explore whatever. Windsurf is pretty far down there. Bolt is really far down there.
Speaker 1:I don't believe these tools are going to come into mainstream popularity, but who knows? We're early enough in the stages that one of these could just blow up over the next few years. Okay, let's end off with everybody's favorite thing what do people think about AI? So what do developers think about AI? How many professional developers use AI tools daily? Around 50%. Shockingly low. Shockingly low. I'm surprised this isn't 100%. What about mid-career developers A little higher? Experienced developers a little lower? Oh man, am I getting older? Because I'm beginning to feel a little bit pessimistic about these tools and I wonder if that's just because I'm a little older, a little less trusting of AI tools and I see the junk they spit out and maybe I'm a little arrogant or something and I'm thinking I can write better code than this. Why isn't this writing code as good as me and I have high expectations and it's not meeting them. I wonder if I'm falling into this category.
Speaker 1:Let's see what AI tool sentiment looks like among professional developers. It's only very favorable forget this 23.5%. It's favorable to 37%. Unfavorable to 10%. Very unfavorable to 9%. Among those learning to code, it's favorable to 33%. Early career devs find it very favorable 22%. Mid-career devs find it very favorable, 23%. Experienced devs 24%. But in general, I mean, the sentiment's not great. I mean, but does this shock anybody? Maybe it shocks people that are really really early in their career or their learning that they're thinking man, these tools are like amazing, they're making my whole life and job better.
Speaker 1:I think for a lot of us using them, we're starting to come up against. The reality is that they make a lot of extra work. We ask them to write the code. They either mess it up, they do things really quickly, they generate a lot of code and it's often not really up to par and we wouldn't want to put our name to it. But we can't say, well, the AI did it. We have to put our name to it, right? So we don't want to take credit in quotes for the junk that these things are producing. So I think a lot of us are saying, yeah, it's really helpful, but it's also a little tedious and makes us have to work a little more than we thought we would. Maybe we all have to limit our expectations and kind of say, well, what are these really gonna be good for? We don't really know right now. Right now, accuracy of AI tools this is good.
Speaker 1:How many of you highly trust AI tools? Would you highly trust OpenAI or ChatGPT to order you a burger? Would you highly trust it to give you a medical diagnosis? Would you highly trust it to buy plane tickets for you if you gave it your credit card? I hope you wouldn't. I don't know, maybe you would.
Speaker 1:Among professional developers, only 2% a little less than 3% actually highly trust it. That means basically, the other 97% don't trust it and 19% highly distrust. For experienced developers, that distrust is even higher at 20% highly distrust. Wow, this is very interesting. The people that are learning to code are twice as likely to highly trust these tools. This again is a bit scary to me, but it makes sense. If you don't know what you don't know, these tools can seem magical. So it's not shocking to see that among professional developers, less than 3% highly trust it and among people that are learning to code, over 6% highly trust it. So more than double highly trust trusted. And among people that are learning to code over 6% highly trusted, so more than double highly trusted. We're into a very strange territory here. I also see this is gonna really mess up code quality in general. When you have people that are entering in the industry and using these tools and thinking this is great and you have older people saying this is not great. You need to check these things and I can already see some conflicts arising from this and also code quality likely taking a bit of a nosedive at companies that are onboarding more junior people and if they're relying more on these AI tools.
Speaker 1:Now, when it comes to AI tools' ability to handle complex tasks, professional developers say, hey, it's really good at that. 4% say it's very good at handling complex tasks, 25% say it's good but not great, 14% say it's neither good or bad and 23% basically say it's bad, right. So you have less than half of people saying, yeah, this is good. Among people learning to code, you have almost half saying it's good at that thing Again, not super shocking. When we look at experienced devs, we see even starker contrast. Here we see only 3.6% find it really good at handling complex tasks. It's not good at handling complex tasks and you can say well, gpt-5 just came out today. It's not good at handling complex tasks.
Speaker 1:Maybe in a controlled experiment, maybe for a particular developer doing a particular thing? I also think that's a bit subjective, like, are any of us good at handling complex tasks? I guess what's your expectation? Is your expectation that it could do what a mid-level developer could do in a code base with no guardrails and essentially make working code? I'd say no. I'm sure there are people that will disagree with me. I haven't found a way to do this myself. I think if companies already had a way to do this myself, I think if companies already had a way to do this, then a lot more of us would be out of a job. And I'm just not seeing that, and so I'm not convinced, and it looks like a lot of other developers aren't convinced either.
Speaker 1:This survey is full of other stuff I didn't get to. I just picked the things that I thought were the most interesting, that I had some opinions on. There's all sorts of other stuff. You know TLDR, everybody's using ChatGBT, chat GBT. Everybody's using OpenAI. Ai adoption is more myth than reality right now. It's not as widespread as people think and the boring technologies that have been popular look like they're going to continue to be popular. So, despite AI, you should probably still be learning the technologies that have been popular for a while now if you are trying to get into this profession. I hope you found that helpful, and maybe you found my rant just a rant, but whatever, I hope you took something out of it and I highly suggest you check out this survey for yourself so you can have some data to either refute them or to support a lot of the junk that you may read online. Anyway, see you around. That'll do it for today's episode of the Develop Yourself podcast. If you're serious about switching careers and becoming a software developer and building complex software and want to work directly with me and my team, go to parsityio, and if you want more information,
