My Favourite Beatles Song

Season 2 Finale – Laurence Juber on Wings

• Tim Tucker • Season 2 • Episode 25

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Enjoy a bonus conversation with former Wings lead guitarist Laurence Juber to close out season two of My Favourite Beatles Song. Following Laurence’s earlier appearance discussing While My Guitar Gently Weeps, this extra audio explores his Beatles guitar arrangements, the thinking behind his version of Blackbird, and his memories of playing with Paul McCartney and Wings during the Back to the Egg era. Laurence reflects on studio creativity, Paul’s encouragement, the energy of late-period Wings, and how joining the band changed the course of his life. 


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Original music by Joe Kane

Logo design by Mark Cunningham

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to my favourite Beatles song. Today's episode is the last in the current series, season two. I've had an amazing time over the last 24 episodes talking to old friends and new and people who've been close to the Beatles and their entourage. But now's the time for me to take a break before coming back with season three later in the year. I thought I'd use this last episode to put out some of the recording that I did with Lawrence Juba that didn't make the episode. Lawrence was on episode 9 of season 2 to talk about while my guitar gently weeps, so if you haven't heard that, check it out. But after we'd finished talking about that song, we continued to talk a little longer about his recordings of Beatles' songs on his guitar albums and his time with wings. And I thought it was a shame not to put that out at the time, so now seems like as good a time as any to put it out for you to hear. Enjoy. Well, I love what you did with Blackbear, because I I play Blackbear, but I do it, you know, nobody plays it like Paul because he does that strange flicky thing, doesn't he?

SPEAKER_03

Well, yeah, he's got that that thumb and one finger thing.

SPEAKER_01

But you you do it with Daggad tuning, don't you? So it changes the feel of it.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and Dagadin A, too, because the see my philosophy there is okay. And interesting, because I mentioned the Bach to through Chet to Beatles. I mean, specifically, it's Chet's recording of the Bach E Minor Borre, which Paul occasionally, before he plays Blackbird, will play a little bit of it because he and George learned it. In fact, it turns out that George owned the Chet record that that recording is on. It's the same album, uh Hi-Fi in Focus, that also has Chet's version of um Walk Don't Run, another descending bass line tune, which the Ventures got from Chet's version, even though Joni Smith's original was was a uh you know in D minor, it was higher up the neck and it was much, it was swung, it wasn't straight. Um and that in itself was written as a counter melody to the Oscar Hammerstein song Softly as in a morning sunrise. So there, you know, I I love going, you know, really going deep on this stuff. Um but for for doing it in in Dagadin A minor means that I can play the melody, lead with the melody, but still get those um moving tenths, which is what Paul got from the Bach. Um, get that underneath. Because in doing it in standard tuning in G, it's hard to get the melody to sing in the same way. And so I'd rather hint at the accompaniment and lead with the melody because that's what people recognize. So I'm glad you enjoy that. That's uh fun one. Uh, you know, and there was just they just came out with a a book and and um did you get involved in that at all? Yeah, uh I was interviewed. Uh the documentary is interesting because it's that style where there are no talking heads. All the interviews were audio only, and and I know they've got you know plenty of uh footage and and interview uh um and pictures. In fact, they I they licensed one of my pictures of Linda for it. Um and and the book has uh I I recognize you know some of the interview uh material from the documentary is in the book too. And you know, I'm in a a kind of a it's an interesting uh position because I'm the last surviving wings lead guitar player, you know, because Henry McCulloch's gone, Jimmy McCulloch's gone, Danny Lane was never lead guitarist, but you know, he was you know so uh integral to the band. And of course, Paul, you know, Paul would always pick up the epiphone and play lead guitar if you gave him half a chance. Um and uh but there are all the drummers are still around. You know, I'm friends with Danny Sewell, I'm friends with Steve Holly, um Joe English, you know, is I mean has not been active in rock and roll because you know he has it, I think he has his own church. Um and even Jeff Britton has been around in recent years. Um but also being kind of having been through that end period, what I call the Indian summer of wings, and and how you know the Back to the Egg album has such an interesting perspective because um Paul you know Paul has a slightly jaundiced view of that whole period, I think, because it was getting to the end of the you know the lifespan of the band. Linda was getting tired with four kids and you know not looking forward to more world tours. Um and the critics, some of the critics were actually really enthusiastic about Back to the Egg, some of them were not kind. Um but over the years it's it's developed its uh a really core following.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I love the album. It's uh yeah, it's got a great cohesive sound to it, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03

It's um Yeah, and it it's and it's not like the previous Wings albums. Um it has its own character, and we were as in the band, we were really encouraged to think of it as a band. You know, and it's interesting because some of the Wings albums are Paul McCartney and Wings, and some of them are simply Wings, and Back to the Egg was a Wings album. Um and you know that was a a really important period in my life.

SPEAKER_01

And I wanted to ask you actually about your guitar parts because did did um you you were a studio musician, presumably asked to play parts, but were you given license to come up with your own parts to the songs that Paul gave you?

SPEAKER_03

Oh yeah, Paul was very um very motivating in that respect. Um and you know, things like Spin It On, for example. Um, I mean, I sat in the control room eye to eye with him and and found myself playing stuff that I didn't know I could play. Unless it was it was fundamental. I mean, like the the rhythm, kind of that James Brownsey kind of rhythm thing on um coming up. Um also on Daytime, Nighttime Suffering, there was a little figure that he wanted. But um most of the time I had kind of free reign. I mean, like the acoustic solo on um Goodnight Tonight was you know, go play something Spanish, you know. So I did. You know that on Denny's uh ovation of damas, because I didn't have a guitar in the studio because we weren't actually supposed to be recording, we were supposed to be mixing in the basement of the Soho Square office. Um but that was just one take. It was just something I just kind of whipped off because I was kind of used to doing that kind of thing. The solo on to you. Because while I was playing it, Paul was was manually manipulating an even-tide harmonizer. So I was playing notes, and in the headphones, I was hearing different notes. So I was deliberately really trying to play outside of the box to feed Paul stuff that he could then take even further out. And um, you know, uh but I think that was kind of a um a Chris Thomas influence, too. It's like you know, kind of wanting to kind of push the envelope.

SPEAKER_01

It's funny because we've been talking about a song off the white album, and it's a bit a bit like the white album, and it's got lots of different styles, and um you know, it goes from you know one you know, funk to rock to you know big ballads. Yeah, it's a beautiful album.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and you know, again, I think going back to the reason I got the gig, you know, was because I was versatile. And and I think Paul was kind of going into a period where he was it was kind of like he had a collection of things that hadn't had yet had a place. I mean, getting closer had been around for some time, but it didn't actually find its place until until Back to the Egg. And then you know, the just the variation and you know Baby's request being so different from Rochestra or whatever.

SPEAKER_01

You know, you were talking about a difficult period because that's also when he got busted. You you were there when he got busted, weren't you?

SPEAKER_03

I was standing next to him when he got busted. So that's not the difficult period I think was I mean it was it was a transitional period because for one thing, uh Back to the Egg was his first album for Columbia Records. You know, he had left uh Capitol. Capital really knew how to market wings. Columbia didn't really know how to market McCartney. Um and uh literally the week that the album came out in in America was the official start of a recession. So the economy was not doing great. The record business was had enormous expectations because of Saturday Night Fever rumors. They were expecting you know album sales to to normalize in the five to ten million range, which was not realistic. Um and you know, uh Back to the Egg actually did really quite well, you know, especially in comparison with with later McCartney releases. Um but so there was a sense that it was not a commercial success. Part of that I think was because the the hit single, Good Night Tonight, wasn't on the album.

SPEAKER_01

A very Beagly thing to do that, actually, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, well yes, and Paul always referred to it as giving value for money. You know, the fact is the Beatles deal with with EMI required, you know, two albums and and four singles A and B sides a year. So they were kind of contractually obligated to putting out separate singles. But but I and I understood that philosophy, but the American market didn't really work the same way. And I think Back to the Egg would have sold more if Goodnight Tonight had been on it. Um but but it didn't do badly. Um but it just because the critics were looking for something different. But in fact, you know, uh and Paul really I mean he captured an energy in that album because there's a kind of a you know Heather was listening to to punk that was going on. You know, you couldn't really avoid what would this kind of incipient new wave thing that was going on. Um and and and it I think it's reflected stylistically in some of the album. Um but you know, for Paul it was you know, he was about to turn 40. Linda was not happy about uh having to you know be full-time in the band because you know she I mean when I joined James wasn't even a year old. Um and things the business side of things had changed. Um they didn't tour again after John was killed, they didn't tour again for the best part of a decade. Um and you know, that was really the ultimate dissolution of Wings was that he didn't need a band. And I knew when I joined the band that, you know, historically, I mean no version of Wings had existed for more than three years. So I knew that I knew that there was a limit. And you know, the the moment when Paul says, What are you doing for the next few years? And I knew that if I, you know, I had to think about it for you know all of a nanosecond because I'd establ I spent my teenage years and through college establishing myself as a studio player, and all of a sudden I'm being asked to be in a band with a Beatle. I'm not gonna say no to that, but it did change the trajectory of my career. And, you know, coming to America and then settling in LA and getting married and raising kids and and getting back into studio work, but with the imprimature of of having been Paul McCartney's lead guitar player, you know, kind of gave it um gave me some momentum to deal with. But um but it was um it definitely changed the direction of my life. And you know, one last thought was I joined the band uh literally a month after my father had passed away at age 51. So I was going through a lot of personal changes too. So it was an interesting period in my life, certainly in his life, certainly in the life of the band.

SPEAKER_01

And we're still talking about it 50 years later.

SPEAKER_03

I know that's the thing that's remarkable is is you know, is how much how much traction it still has. Although, I mean, realistically, demographically, those that initial cohort of Beatles fans, especially the ones in America, that I got to the New York and it's like, whoa, you know, this means something very different in America than it does in England. Um I was quite surprised uh uh just how how much uh resonance everything Beatles had in America versus, you know, it was kind of yeah, you know, that that's that's so old hat, you know, in England. I do have a book. Uh I did have a book called Guitar with Wings that um was all the pictures that I took when I was in the band and more. Um and it's bi biographical, autobiographical. Um and it it goes into at least well I came out ten years ago, so it it goes into my solo career up until that point. But uh there's you know it it's kind of my take on on that experience. Um I don't know if it's still available in England. It it was published over there, but the book business is one of those things that you know it's hard to hard to keep track of all of that.

SPEAKER_02

All right, I'm gonna have to run, but uh great to chat with you, Tim. Yeah, thank you so much. And thank you. All right, thank you.

SPEAKER_01

Bye.

unknown

One, two, three, four.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks for listening to my favourite Beatles song. You can follow the podcast on various social media channels. Check the links in the show notes. Thanks to Mark Cunningham for the logo design and Joe Kane for the brilliant music. I'll be back with season three later this year. Keep an eye on the socials for more details. See you next time.