My Favourite Beatles Song
My Favourite Beatles Song
Rainclouds – Arsalan Mohammad
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Arsalan Mohammad, host of Albumtoalbum, the David Bowie albums podcast, describes how his Beatles story started when his cousin flipped over her copy of Ebony and Ivory. Here he talks about his love for that song, Rainclouds, by Paul McCartney. The discussion covers elemental lyrics, Paddy Moloney's uilleann pipes solo, and the studio session on the day Paul learnt John had been shot.
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Um beating to beat the town.
SPEAKER_03Welcome to my favorite Beatles Song, the podcast where we celebrate the music of the Beatles with a distinguished guest. I'm Tim Tucker, and with me today is Arsalan Mohamed, publishing director, journalist, podcaster for the Bowie Podcast Album to Album, and much more. Welcome, Arsalan.
SPEAKER_04Hi, it's nice to be here.
SPEAKER_03Great to see you. And um, I always start by asking my guests about their sort of Beatles origin story. Um, in other words, what do you have an earliest memory of the Beatles you can bring to mind?
SPEAKER_04Well, Tim, the the reason I've chosen the song I've chosen today is that that song is my Beatles origin story. So I had when I was about five or six, yeah, I was living in Shropshire. We grew up in Shropshire, and my slightly older cousin was a big music fan, and she would go to Woolworth's or WH Smith's every other weekend and buy some seven-inch singles. And I remember when she bought Ebony and Ivory when that came out and came home, and as usual, we'd be sitting in the front room playing records, and she flipped it over and played this song, The B Side, to Ebony and Ivory. And for some reason that song really grabbed me. And my mum happened to be in the room at the time, and um she just said, Oh, this looks like this sounds like the Beatles. And that's it.
SPEAKER_03Did you get did you get to the Beatles from there quickly, or was that um a slower process?
SPEAKER_04Literally going upstairs because my cousin's elder brother had um quite a few Beatles records in his room. He was he was quite a big music fan. And I remember he had 62 to 66, the red and blue albums. And as soon as he heard about my interest, he kind of hauled me upstairs and plunked me down and said, Right, listen to these. And I and the and that that was such a I up to that point, it sounds ridiculous. I've been a real uh collector of car brochures. So my big hobby was going with my dad to car showrooms and collecting the brochures for cars. That was my big thing. Now something else had opened up and it was it just slammed into me. Is that what is this? So this is uh you know, otherworldly music, it's astonishing music. I mean, I loved ABBA and Boney M and stuff like that, but this really was something. So yeah, that that's pretty much my origins. But then when I was around 10, Broad Street came out, and I think that was the first time that I had sort of followed the release of a film or an album or something. My sister and I both knew who Paul McCartney was at that point. Pipes a Peace had been a big hit the year before, so he'd been everywhere. But I remember he did uh an interview on Russell Harty. I don't know if you remember Russell Harty. Oh, of course, yeah. He did a big big interview, like a whole show's interview to promote Broad Street, and we taped it. And I think we wore out that tape. Um, certainly even now, you know, you can find clips of that interview on YouTube, and me and my sister just must have watched it endlessly. And I remember that cousin who had played me his red and blue albums at one point coming to our house and watching me and my sister again cross-legged in front of the TV watching it. You must be sick of that by now, but that that was my Beatles origin story, and I think it just went from there. I mean, of course, he did press to play a few years later, which challenged that love.
SPEAKER_03Second question: Do you have a favorite period from either the early Fab 4s or the middle psychedelic, folky psychedelic period, or the late scary, hairy Beatles?
SPEAKER_04I love that description, scary hairy. I don't really, Tim. I mean, I I maybe I probably gravitate in listening towards scary hairy. Um scurry-houry. But uh I I don't know. For me, I suppose the golden period would would cross a few of those cross a boundary and be maybe between say 65 to 68. Um yeah, yeah, I think that that would be but you know, even if it's like being a Beatles fan, there are days you wake up and you have to listen to Please Please Me, or you know, you have a craving for a hard day's night, or you must listen to the medley on Abbey Road, you know, it's a wonderful grab bag that can keep pretty much any mood.
SPEAKER_03In your podcast, you've talked to Bowie Sidemen, who are also John Lennon Sidemen. But have you ever met any of the Beatles or their entourage or seen any of them live?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I've seen McCartney live a couple of times. Um I haven't no, I don't think I've met anyone from the sort of the inner family. Oh no, no, no, I tell a lie. I met Yoko Ono and Sean. So that was in 2010, and they were in Iceland, and I managed to get a trip to Iceland to interview Yoko. I think her album Between, is it Between My Head and the Sky, the album that came out around 2009? That had come out, and it was going to be Sean's birthday, and they were doing an event there called The Peace Tower, where they had a light installation in the harbour in Reykjavik. And um yeah, I I got to hang out with Yoko, and it was quite funny because uh she was very chatty and warm and welcoming, and she welcomed me to her hotel suite, and we sat down, we did the interview, and she kept proffering great platters of fruit and biscuits. And I kept saying no because I knew I had 10 minutes with Yoko and I so I wanted to kind of get on with the conversation. And if I didn't eat fruit, she would stop and be like, What's wrong? Don't don't you like these apples? Don't you like these peasants? And then she'd shout at her PA in Japanese, and the poor PA would have to keep ferrying in bigger plates of food. I'm like, I'm fine, Yoko, I'm fine. And then that evening in Reykjavik they did a um concert, you know. Obviously, it was 9th of October, they did a John Lennon concert, and no one knew that Yoko was there at that point. They knew they thought she was coming the next day. So I ended up in the wings with her. I was there with a friend of mine, and we were just wandering, no one stopped us, and we found this hospitality area, and there was Yoko sitting on her own with her top hat, and um, she just said to come and sit down next to her, and we chatted for a bit, and then she leapt off and went on stage, and they all did give peace a chance. So, yeah, that was that was quite memorable, but I forgot. So it's it's now it's memorable.
SPEAKER_03I'm pleased to have reminded you of it. Um and you saw McCartney live. With uh um, was that a good experience?
SPEAKER_04It really was. Um, I think I went twice. I went with my sister, and we went to 02 on both occasions. I think the first time we went to randomly get some of the best seats in the house. We were literally overlooking the stage. And it must this must have been a while ago. I mean, this must have been I don't know, 10, 2011. And he was very vigorous and very lively, and I remember seeing he had Beetle Boots on. And I think what killed me was when he brought out here's a guitar that you know, you might have heard a little song I once did called Day Tripper, and here's the guitar I played on it, and he brought out his epiphone guitar. And I remember sort of being quite suddenly bursting into tears because I think it hits you, the enormity of the this person that you've loved for years, and then he brings something out like that, and he's just so happy and bouncy and giving it everything. About two years ago, uh was it? Yeah, we went, I think, end of 24 when he did some London Gate dates, and we hadn't had so much luck with our seats. And I remember in fact we were I don't know if you are familiar with the O2, but if you go up to the back, you literally are in the nosebleed seat. It was almost vertical, so we're right up the back and hard. Seriously, there was somebody right in front of me like that. So you're sitting rigidly, terrified you're gonna tip over. But um, obviously, you know, he's a he's a bit older now, and uh, you know, it's it's a different experience, but no, I think it was a magical experience.
SPEAKER_03The song you've chosen to discuss is Rain Clouds. It was written by Paul McCartney and Denny Lane. It was released as the B-side to Ebony and Ivory on the 29th of March 1982 in the UK and the US. The single went to number one in both the UK and the US. So those are the facts, but uh tell us what led you to choose this song as your um your discussion.
SPEAKER_04Well, like I said, it's when you sent me a list of nearly every Beatles song, when you sent me a long list of songs, it was slightly like, oh my god, how'd you choose? And then I thought, well, what what song really for me has a personal significance? I mean, I could name any Beatles song when there's a memory or there's a a feeling or an association or some manifestation of love. But then really rain clouds, like I said, rain clouds was the first uh occasion I remember uh hearing music and then uh it being identified as Beatles related and uh that yeah, that impact it made on me. I mean, as a five or six-year-old, seven-year-old, you know, things tend when you like something, you like it, you know, you really like it, and it it busts into you. And so on a personal level, uh, it brings back very many happy memories. It brings back a time of you know, childhood, of security, of comfort, of being around my you know, favourite cousin. I saw her now, actually. She's um she lives in America and she was over in the UK recently, and we, you know, we still chat about music. But and secondly, that song has weirdly endured over the years. I never tire of it. When I hear of that, when I hear that song, there's something about it which to me, and this is a theme that probably we'll return to, it uh encapsulates everything about Paul McCartney in one song for me. I think there's a there's an innate playfulness to it. Um it's a deceptively simple song. So if you break it down as a song, it's it's not very technically complex, right? It doesn't immediately offer up um any sort of you know dark mystery sort of compositional you know canunds.
SPEAKER_03There's a lot of open chords, isn't it? E C A D G. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um and so you have this simplicity, but into that he managed to bring so much texture and meaning and um using very bright primary colours. I mean, if you think about him as a painter, he's he's painting here in primary colours, and he does love artists like Willem de Kooning, for example, which I think is a really intriguing connection here. Because an artist like De Kooning would make a canvas in a similar way to the way Paul is doing here. I mean, he's just shouting out rain, forest, trees, sun, you know, these are all very primal nouns that just are are just sort of stated. But the way he presents these simple things by using shifting chords and the transitions and the changes, bringing in the sun, going back to the rain, you know what it is? It's very Beatles. One of them, of course, is John's song Rain from 1966, and which is also a song. If I, you know, I think I think that song's been taken, someone's done it. It has, unfortunately. Which would have been probably one of my top choices. But it something I like thinking about is that John Lennon Rain, Paul McCartney Rain Clouds, um this connection between the two, uh, you know, 16 years later, whatever it is, 14 years later, is is something that is quite pleasing for me.
SPEAKER_03I went on this strand of thinking because you've also got I'll Follow the Sun, which is a Paul song from 65, where the lyrics cover similar to rain. Paul's Paul's metaphor of rain, obviously it's a very the idea that the sunshine represents happiness and and the rain clouds represent sadness. But I do think he does interesting things with that. And in I'll Follow the Sun, it's tomorrow may rain, but I'll follow the sun.
SPEAKER_02One day you look to see I've gone, for tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the sun.
SPEAKER_04And you know the interesting thing is I'll Follow the Sun, I read somewhere was one of the earliest songs he wrote, and he said he he wrote it in Fourth Lynn Road, so it's very early, and it's got that sort of slightly stepwise doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom. It's very elemental as well, which this is, and you're right, it has I never I didn't think about this in I'll Follow the Sun, but of course, the the the weather metaphor is so fundamental to the song, and again it's that deceptive simplicity because I think for each of us it can bring out a colossal spectrum of images, emotions, and so on.
SPEAKER_03The thing that it says to me about Paul is that he always um focuses on the sun, doesn't he? I'll follow the sun, and in this one, the the rain clouds hide the sun is a very subtle way of saying that the rain is you know gonna hit you and it's gonna come, but there's the sun's behind it, just behind it. The rain cloud just needs to move and they'll come back. He's very optimistic in that way, Paul, isn't he? He's always like, even if it's a bad time, he's always like, Oh, it's okay, it'll pass, that cloud will go over and we'll be back to the sunshine, you know.
SPEAKER_04That's a that's a very good observation, and he is he is the eternal optimist. I think that's one of the reasons why you know many Beatles fans. I mean, okay, people Beatles fans like myself will admire and respect and be in awe of John or just be beguiled by George, or with Paul, there's this human connection, I think, that means so much to so many billions of people over the years, which is that fundamental human optimism. You know, rain clouds hide the sun. Sun, there's you know, it's there. Sun is always there. He keeps returning to the sun in the song. So I think that was Eric Stewart, Denny Lane, and Cinder doing that. It's very kind of like Beach Boys-esque choral in the background. And when you hear that part of the sun dries up my tears, and they're in the background, it is like the rays of the sun. You know, on good day sunshine, another one.
SPEAKER_03Yes, another one, yeah.
SPEAKER_04When he has that, you know, wonderful good day sun at the end, and it is like the rays of the sun, whatever bugger he is. You know, he he could he could actually conjure up the physical sensation of the weather. When I hear rain clouds, I I visually I I can visualize, I don't know, a valley, trees, uh, you know, a pastoral scene, and then clouds moving over it, you know, and then distance, you know, the ocean. And all this it's almost cartoon-like. It's like an animation, you know, with all the you know, the dark, light, everything. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You mentioned it's a simple song, but there's a beautiful touch, I think, in the fact that it's in E, at least the sort of chorus part is. But the moment he mentions the rain clouds um hide the sun, he hits a C chord. Now, a C chord isn't in the key of E. In fact, what it implies is a minor, um, a minor shift because there's a G note instead of a G sharp. So, you know, I'm gonna overintellectualize this and just say that's a lovely touch because what he's done there is, as you say, he's used the music of the harmony to bring out the rain cloud cover in the sun by going to minor, implying a minor key in the middle of this sunshine, you know.
SPEAKER_04Isn't that a very poor thing to do though?
SPEAKER_03I mean, don't you find that he does that a lot, yeah. A lot, doesn't he?
SPEAKER_04You know, and again, it's a slight, slightly wrong foots you, you know, you're not necessarily expecting that there, but it carries a huge amount, it it's almost painting the the visual film you have in your head as you hear the song darkens at that point. The music pull that chord, that unexpected shift to a lion pulls you into a different dimension. And it's again, it's wonderfully for me. This song is very cinematic. I don't know about you, but uh the best songs, the songs we love the most, the songs that resonate to us the most, could be almost a movie in your head. You know, when you hear a certain song, it comes with its own uh scenery, it has its own colour palette, it has its own texture. I mean, I was looking at all the stuff about rubber soul coming up, the the the box set of rubber soul, and I was so happy that they'd really lent in, as they say. You know, they they they'd really lent into the the the dark greens and the the the browns and the bees.
SPEAKER_03The autumnal almost, isn't it? The autumnal colours, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and whoever's doing, and I think whoever's at Apple right now doing their socials is really knocking it out of the park because they're just they're they're doing it really well. And um, that to me is rubber soul. You know, I I hear that album and I feel woody, autumnal. And and so it is with rain clouds. With rain clouds, I feel this. Do you know the you know the Beatles album Oldies but Goldie's, the the greatest hits album? For some reason, the the the cover art of that is somehow lodged in my mind for rain clouds, you know, that sort of slightly sort of um I don't know who to say it, it might have been Alan Aldridge, but it was um those sort of dark, deep 60s colours and all sorts of bizarre imagery, and it's all of a piece, all these all these things are of a piece. It's a world that I love and I'm intrigued by, but I don't really know what's going on, and I want to be more in it.
SPEAKER_03The other thing I just want to mention here, and I don't know if you've made this connection, but it made me think of Buddy Holly um and specifically the song Raining in My Heart. And I went back and listened to Raining in My Heart, and it's it's in a different key, but it's interesting because the you know, it's uh the sun is out and all that. And then but the moment when he says, But it's raining in my heart, he hits a C chord. And um, I just wondered, oh, I wonder if that's where, either consciously or not, Paul got it.
SPEAKER_01The sun is out, the sky is blue, there's not a cloud to small view, but it's raining. Raining in my heart.
SPEAKER_03And when I was listening to there's um, you can get the you know, there's a bootleg of Wings, because Wings did a version of this in Rehearsal.
SPEAKER_04I heard that, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and there's a one run through of Rain Clouds where he goes into his buddy Holly Boys.
SPEAKER_04Well, he's doing that at the end in the fade out as well, isn't he?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, exactly. So I wonder if again it might have been subconscious, whether that moved. I think so.
SPEAKER_04That is a that is I've never thought that, but that's that's really interesting because of course at the end, when did he acquire the Holly catalogue? I think that was 1973. So he acquired it at the urging of um the Eastmans, who were you know telling him to diversify and you know invest in catalogues. Of course, Buddy Holly was foundational for him. And then I think at the in the late 70s, he was doing Buddy Holly lunches, wasn't he? He was doing Buddy Holly events because he basically he bought the catalogue and he was now working to you know boost its value to make you know to make Buddy Holly visible again. So Buddy Holly would have been in his mind 78-79. And we know also that it wasn't the easiest time, and especially 1980 was not the easiest of times for him. And I think we know from you know other occasions in his life when Paul is against the wall or when Paul is having a hard time, he always reverts back to the fundamentals. He'll go back to rock and roll, he'll go back to his first loves. After Linda died, he did uh Run Devil Run. You know, he finds comfort and uh reassurance and support in those early rock and roll records. And um Buddy Holly was very much, I think, to the forefront of his mind. And you're absolutely right. I've never thought about this, but there is so much in Rainclouds that could be inspired, I think, by Holly. The deception of these simplistic constructions, the vocals, and of course, raining in my heart. Yeah. You refer to that YouTube rehearsal. And uh here's something else that is uh that makes this song an interesting choice for us to talk about. Is this song crosses so many paths in McCartney's story? It comes at the end of Wings, and it's co-written with Denny Lane, it's produced by George Martin. Uh it's featuring Paddy Maloney from The Chieftains, who, of course, it was recorded the overdub of the how do I say it? Ilian?
SPEAKER_03Apparently it's either Ilan or Ilian.
SPEAKER_04So it's got the Ilian pipes in it with Paddy Maloney, which were recorded on the day that uh the news of John's death uh came about. So there are so and it's recorded at Air in Abbey Road. Um so many parts are crisscrossing. And something else on this song that I thought, and I was subsequently disproved, was when I first heard it, I thought that Paddy's pipes were a Shannai, which is the Indian instrument, and you know, it's got a very reedy sound to it. And I immediately, you know, as I was getting to know the Beatles and my parents being from Pakistan, uh, there is they knew that who the Beatles were, but they weren't massive fans, but they were tickled by the Indian songs that George did. You know, there was my dad, especially loved Indian classical music, and so he quite liked the fact that you know the Beatles had done these foray in Indian music. So I assumed Paul was harking back to that by using a Shennai, because if you listen to the the Indian pipes and a Shannai, they're virtually interchangeable.
SPEAKER_03This is a kind of bagpipe, an Irish bagpipe, but it's chromatic, which means that unlike the Scottish bagpipes, which have to be in a certain key and are a bit restricted. Well, it's really interesting because the song before this one that I've done is Mull of Kintyre with a previous guest, which is coming out this week. And so he's got the bagpipes on Mull of Kintyre. And I was suddenly struck by, you know, it's a weird coincidence, isn't it, that you choose this song after that. But I wonder if he was trying to get that back again because uh he and Denny Lane have written Mull of Kintyre, I've been a huge hit three years earlier. And I wonder if obviously in the Wings rehearsal, they had a guitar solo, a really nice guitar solo by Lawrence Duber. But it's so much more intricate, isn't it? The solo. It's beautifully played by Paddy Maloney.
SPEAKER_04It reminds me a little bit of George Martin in in my life. You know, when he comes in in the middle, din din dun din a very dancing, light, sprite like changes the whole timbre of the tune, doesn't it? Exactly. And you know, that some I mean, I've read uh critiques where some people have said, Oh, that solo is very much at odds with the song and it jars with the general nude. And so it is with Patty Maloney. But yeah, that you know, that let let's let's just look at this. So Paul had been recording the song with wings, like you said, there's the there's the rehearsals, which are a lot of them are available on YouTube, and the one I've heard certainly is the one where he's calling out the chord changes. Presumably Lane and well not Lane, because Lane would have co-ridden, but maybe to Lawrence Juba. And you know, they're going through it, and it sounds kind of plodding and it's okay, but bit country rock, I think, isn't it? Well, yeah, it's very country rock, isn't it? But what was what was the state of play with wings at that time? So this is we're talking what?
SPEAKER_03We'd be talking about October 1980. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Wings were still a functioning band at that point, weren't they?
SPEAKER_03Just when they start when he started talking to George Martin about recording a new album, George Martin talked him out of using wings, from what I can gather, and said, Why don't you get some session players in get the best players you can?
SPEAKER_04Wow, so it was George that killed Wings.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god, George Martin. I think it might have been coming to an end anyway, because Paul Paul had, you know, um, and it was the third and final sort of iteration, as you say, with Steve Holly on drums and uh Lawrence Duber on guitar, Denny Lane was there, and they did lots of sessions in Kent. Um, there's lots of bootlegs available for that.
SPEAKER_04How do you think that band sounded, that final iteration?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean I like the Back to the Egg album, which was there sort of um what they put out. And I spoke funnily enough, I spoke to Lawrence Duber, the guitarist. Um, he came on the podcast and um we had a good chat about that. And he's a brilliant guitarist, Lawrence Juber. And in fact, the solos that he did on those sessions, beautiful guitar solos. Again, I can't find any references to why they decided not to do a guitar solo and to take it in this Irish direction.
SPEAKER_04It's but also it's a very, very McCartney-est thing to do. I mean, I think there's there's really the George Martin when George Martin and Paul McCartney get together, there's some sort of alchemy at play where it could be, well, we'll do a guitar solo. And then one of them will be like, Well, no, actually, no, it needs more than that. And I'm sure George Martin would have had this conversation with Paul and just again, we met we mentioned in my life just now where the genius of these two together is to identify that that's okay, let's let's give it a lift, let's let's go somewhere else. I hear a flute, I can hear, and you can imagine George Martin. I told Paul that I could hear something else. You know, it strikes me repeatedly about this song is that economy, not only in the lyrical imagery, but in the organization and the struggle.
SPEAKER_03Well, the drums. I mean, it's just a sim a single bass drum, isn't it? Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And that's something that connects to the Irish thing as well. But it feels very, you know, it's a very folk thing boomed all the way through. You know, there isn't just a regular drum kit there, but that also adds to that sort of slightly sepier tinted feel of the song. Is that you know imagine a bunch of people in a pub just sitting there just like banging this one out.
SPEAKER_03I have no record of why he chose to get Paddy Maloney to come in and do the Limp Hypes. It might have been let's get back to that Mullock entire thing. He was flown in for it, wasn't he? He he because um he he he was in is it Dublin, but he had to fly in to to for the that day, and he was calling saying, Shall I come? Because, as you say, on that day they learnt it was just that morning at 5 a.m. that Paul learned that John Lennon had been shot. So McCartney decided to go in and go ahead with the session, which is an interesting choice, but I think probably the right one. Keep yourself busy, don't mope at home, right? Maloney says in his um in one interview that he he, you know, was very emotional, obviously, and uh he put a lot he felt he put a bit more into it, didn't he? Because of that that sense of you know tragedy.
SPEAKER_04There's a lovely quote from him where he says, I gave it a little heavenly lift. Yeah, he's talking he's talking about you know doing that sort of perhaps doing a maybe going a little bit further than he would have. But I love this quote of his saying, I gave it a little heavenly lift.
SPEAKER_03In the authorised biography of the chieftains, he said, uh we just sat around and talked about how sad and terrible John's death was, and then put down the 16 bars require for the song with George in control. Then Paul came in and he was in an awful state. He said that the press had been outside his house since 5 a.m. He'd been pestered so much at home that he just had to get away. He managed to lose the reporters and sneaked into the studio back up the back stairs. I think that says a lot about why Paul decided to do it. I think the alternative was to be at home, be surrounded by the press to his actual quote, which has hounded him ever since, hasn't it? Where he said it's a drag and when it must have been up how he felt about it. He was in no state to talk about it, was he? And I think probably being in the studio was the best place for him.
SPEAKER_02What were you recording to the meeting? Um I was just listening to some stuff, you know. I just didn't understand the number one. I didn't feel like it. What time did you hear the news? This morning's from very early. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Well, it's Paul McCartney. This is what he does. Um, he he makes music. And I think when he's at we said earlier when he's up against the wall, he he he goes into music. And I think it's a no-brainer. I mean, firstly, on a purely mundane practical level, they'd been recording, I think they'd been recording the day before. On the day of the 8th, they'd been in the studio recording, so there was work to do. Um he'd been with George Martin, who has been with him since 1962, and obviously is a was to everyone sort of quite a sort of fatherly supportive figure, and who best to remember John with and person to be with, right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um I don't think I don't know how relations were with the other ex Beatles at that time, but probably not that great. I mean, apparently George also spent the day recording. George Harrison, he was in Henley at um at his big house, and he also spent the day recording, but he in his interview about John's death said, Oh, well, someone called me and I answered the phone and then I rolled over and went back to sleep again, which is very true. Um Ringo went out to America. So Paul needed to be around uh people, he needed to be around people who understood, and where better for Paul than to be in a studio making music with George Martin. So yeah, I I it it to me, I I've never found it weird. I've never, you know, reading about that day, I've never thought it was strange he went to make music. I mean, what's he gonna do? I mean, it it's it's a day where he begins the day with this uh you know tumultuous news that explodes his world. Um immediately the press are camped out around his house. Um you know, Linda and he have to get the kids off to school and all the rest of it. He's he's just devastated beyond belief. Uh now on that day, of course, the Paps were all over the place, paparazzi everywhere waiting for Paul to come out and make his big statement. And he's numb. He's so numb. I think any of us who've experienced a shocking, shocking trauma might not be able to speak for a couple of days. You know, what do you say? You you you're devastated. So, like you said, this of course being Paul McCartney, he comes out, the world is waiting for his reaction, and he's there nonchalant, chewing gum, kind of shrugging and um answering almost monosyllabically. You know, how do you find out? What happened? Whoa, well, a friend told me. Well, when? When? Well, this morning. And you know, what do you think? Well, it's a drag, isn't it? Yeah. Is it aren't those the words of a man in shock? I mean, do you think the portrait? For sure. You can see it on his face.
SPEAKER_03If you watch it carefully, you can see it in the shock.
SPEAKER_04You see his face, you see his face. He looks absolutely and I don't know where maybe it was in the recent exhibition that he did, you know, the exhibition at um portrait gallery a few years ago. Yes, and I went to that. Is it him standing by uh an evening newspaper seller? And uh on the on the card it says John Lennon's shot. And it might be someone someone told me it's Linda from the car. He popped out to get a paper, and he's just standing there, you know, giving the guy some money. I don't know, but it's again that's such a haunting image, this dark coated figure just hunched over. Anyway, you don't need to be.
SPEAKER_03And it it's interesting because obviously the the song was nothing to do with Lennon, apart from the connection you made with Rain, but um but it is interesting that the lyrics of it do perhaps uh reflect on it's a good song to be working on uh at the time that it happened. Do you know what I mean? In terms of its meaning and so on.
SPEAKER_04I mean, if you've been doing you know, we all stand together or something that day instead. But I think, and again, this didn't this didn't hit me when I was a child and I was hearing this song for the first time and I was just enchanted by it. But of course, in its historical context, sun, rain, you know, tears, uh, you know, you're talking the the the lyrics are about departures and leaving. And I'll send you a postcard.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and you know, it's one of those spooky coincidences that litter the beetles canon, really, isn't it? It's one of those just bizarre yes. So so so much. I mean, there's a book by Howard Soon, it's fab, and in that book, I think he's I can't remember who he's interviewing, not Padley Maloney, but maybe Denny Lane, who claims that on the day of the recording, as I said, they were in Oxford Circus and it's a busy traffic interchange, and uh they were looking out of the window, and a furniture van with lenons uh written on the side drove by.
SPEAKER_03That's right, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04It's it's uh it's got slightly the air of a hoary old rock anecdote, but at the same time, you know, it is one of those irresistible moments of coincidence that you know lenons went by. But you're right, the the the song, the song's subsequent after the song's afterlife, its mythology is rooted in that very peculiar, awful day. And the emotion we've talked about Paddy Maloney describing how he added a lift, he added something to his solo. When you hear this dancing solo, it is almost a kind of keening almost, you know. There's almost like there's a very plaintive quality to it, even if though it is quite a bouncy melody. And the that whole experience, I think, colours the song in some way. You know, it really comes through in the song. Well, Rain, like I said, Rain would have been wonderful, just because again, it's deep lush, you know, green and brown and hedgerows and sunlight and you know, the rain at dawn and you know, head spinning madness and psychedelic craziness. Everything around 1966 is thrilling. It's it's the sound of uh it it's like being a teenager, you know, you're old enough to enjoy things, but you're still young enough for everything to be new. It comes with a sort of like thick texture drony thing, it's got Indian influences in. Um, it's nuts, and that's what I would have chosen, I think. And also I I would probably chosen um, I've got a feeling, just because for some reason the riff got lodged in my brain some years ago and it just keeps playing. It's like there's a broken chip somewhere in my brain. If everyone just walking along or you know, walking the dog or getting on a train or just thinking about something every time that riff bang, bang, bang, bang.
SPEAKER_03So, what's what's next for you? Um, I know you you um wrapped up a season of album to album in the end of last year, didn't you? And are you going back to that? Is it will we see more?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so this year it's been crazy busy. I've been working at Julian's Publishing, which is part of Julian's auctions, and um, we're launching a new series of books, so that's been taking up all my time. But the good news is um that I have already recorded a couple of episodes of I mean, calling it season is quite grand, I think. I wouldn't say that. Um a new batch, let's say a new batch, and I'm going to London next week and I'm going to be recording some more. And there's a couple of guests I'm frantically trying to get, and they're their people are kind of keeping me slightly dangling on a string right now, and I know why, you know, there's there are reasons, but I'm really hoping I can get this person. But no, I I have all the old favourites coming back. Um three old favourites coming back, actually. I've met somebody who was very intimately involved with this stage of Bowie's life, which I'm super excited about. And yeah, there will be more.
SPEAKER_03Exciting. Do we know when? Have you got a launch date for that?
SPEAKER_04It's when I mean, I rather like you, you know, I do these podcasts in my spare time and I do them when I can. So uh I've already recorded one interview, and of course, going into next year, you know, January is going to be Bowie's 80th birthday. Uh, then it's going to be the year of heroes, and I live in Berlin, and I'm talking to some people here about maybe seeing if I can do something to to commemorate that. I did an event at the British Library in January this year, and that was great fun, and it was really good. And I got super support from the British Library itself to stage this event. So I don't think I'm going to be doing something on that scale again. But certainly in Berlin, I hope to do a couple of live events and um, you know, maybe a live podcast recording. Because the weird thing is that people still are fascinating. We know we're talking in great detail here about one Paul McCartney song from 1980. But there's that level of curiosity and uh interest in Bowie still as well. And I think you know, as a song, you know, we want my podcast is very little more than people like you and me just sitting around mattering, basically. There's no grand thing about it. It's just I love just talking to I love talking to the people who played with Bowie. And I'm always very much the fan, you know. I don't go in there with you know, sort of like specialist knowledge. I'm just kind of ogling at them, going, oh my god, what was he like? And I've been very lucky with the people who taught because they they will they like you know they they like to talk about these things. And I remember once talking to Reeves Gabrels, who was with Bowie in Tim Machine in about the 90s, and I think one of the most funny exchanges we had was about Bowie's hair, because obviously we were both bald men. And Reeves was just expressing his jealousy of this man who then was in his 50s, having such a fine head of hair, and wondering, suspecting if there'd been any kind of artificial assistance to this. And one time on tour in Mexico, Bowie said, Oh, I want to have a Mexican. So Reeves shaved, he's like, the bastard. Got down there, and it was like really great hair. He had even when I shaved it, it was great. So that that's the general level of my intellectual approach. But I'm very glad to have had guests like Nicholas Pegg or Leah Cardos who have got that specialist knowledge.
SPEAKER_03So, how would people follow you or stay in touch with what you're doing?
SPEAKER_04Uh, just follow David Bowie album to album. It's on Instagram and on Blue Sky. And I'm I'm on Facebook too. Is anyone still on Facebook?
SPEAKER_03I'll put all those links in the show notes so people can click and follow.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that would be great. And there will there will be more episodes coming out soon, and I absolutely mean that this time.
SPEAKER_03I can't wait. I love your show. So um listen, it's been amazing talking to you about the Beatles, Paul McCartney, and specifically rain clouds. Thanks so much, it's been great.
SPEAKER_04Thank you. Thank you for letting me ramble on at length. I've really, really enjoyed it. It's been a real pleasure.
unknownOne, two, three, four.
SPEAKER_03Thanks for listening to my favourite Beatles song. If you like the podcast, please consider giving it a rating or review on your favourite podcast platform. This helps me to reach new listeners. You can follow the podcast on x.com, Instagram, and Facebook. Look for the links in the show notes. Thanks to Joe Kane for the fantastic music and Mark Cunningham for the logo design. I'll see you next time.