American born, Chris grew up in a family of missionaries in Kenya. He befriended the nomadic Maasai tribe, learned Swahili as a young child, and escaped a pack of hyenas by climbing a tree.
A nomad in the truest sense, Chris Carter spends his time between thru-hikes to study for a divinity degree. He currently resides in Chattanooga, Tennessee. But, Chris will tell you that the road is his home. He knows how to pack light, then sets his compass for a world of pain.
American born, Chris grew up in a family of missionaries in Kenya. He befriended the nomadic Maasai tribe, learned Swahili as a young child, and escaped a pack of hyenas by climbing a tree.
A nomad in the truest sense, Chris Carter spends his time between thru-hikes to study for a divinity degree. He currently resides in Chattanooga, Tennessee. But, Chris will tell you that the road is his home. He knows how to pack light, then sets his compass for a world of pain.
I mean, like you said, our bodies specifically our feet and legs are our most important tool in our toolbox and thinking about your body is even more important than that. It's what's actually allowing you to do all this. And so taking care of your body is so very important. And oftentimes you have to do that to the detriment of progress. But it's, you know, if you don't, then there'll be no progress.
Thom Pollard:Following is an interview with Chris Carter, American born and Kenyan, raised son of missionaries, artist, filmmaker, masters of Intercultural Studies student and Triple Crown through hiker, the ultimate Nomad, he's talking about the most important tools of his or any human beings trade. I'm Thom Pollard. This is tools for nomads, where you meet inspiring, insightful, passionate individuals, nomads like me, who are driven by their creativity, and an insatiable desire and curiosity to reveal the answers to life's big questions. Wherever you're listening, please be sure to subscribe, give us a rating and a review. The YouTube version of this interview will be on our YouTube page in one week's time, please find us there too. And subscribe and let us know what you think. I met Chris Carter after stumbling across a film of his on YouTube called to measure a mile about his Pacific Crest Trail through hike. What amazed me and prompted me to reach out to Chris Was that his film wasn't so much about the arduous physical demands of a 2600 mile hike, but about the spiritual trials and tribulations of a human being. To measure a mile is like a poem in beautiful living color, where the protagonist goes into the church of nature on a vision quest. To date the film has over 561,000 views and counting. Chris was raised in Kenya. He's the son of missionaries. He's an artist and community development worker currently living and working and studying in Chattanooga, Tennessee, growing up in Kenya, East Africa, where his parents work in the medical field. Chris was exposed from a young age to a wild and Spartan lifestyle with the Maasai and Kikuyu people that they lived amongst. From month long dirt bike trips through the bush of East Africa, sleeping in trees to escape packs of hungry hyenas, to primitive hunting trips with Maasai warriors. Chris was constantly in search of unique and radical adventures, and truly learned how to live like a nomad. He is the ultimate definition of that word. And five years younger than half my age, I discovered a mature and wise soul beyond his years. Chris now lives and works in Chattanooga, Tennessee, going to grad school, pursuing his master's in intercultural studies at Fuller Seminary, his artwork and pencil drawings of giraffes and elephants look more like a photograph than a drawing. He's a long distance trail runner, a rock climber in the United States. He's completed the Triple Crown of thru hikes, more than 10,000 miles of thru hiking, the John Muir Trail, the Pacific Crest Trail, Continental Divide Trail, and the Appalachian Trail during a zero day hike, as they call it when they don't go anywhere. Chris known as rad on the trail and his trail partner Wow. Stopped at our house where I interviewed him about the life of a nomad. He speaks fluent Swahili, but we spoke for the purposes of this podcast in English. He's a nomad in the truest sense. The road is his home. He knows how to pack light, light and even lighter, so very light that he actually borrows clothes in order to do his laundry. He understands how to endure a world of physical, mental and emotional pain in the name of reaching his goal while conveying the most positive, affirming and kind mindset of any I've yet to meet. Chris, like other thru hikers shortens the names of the Pacific Crest Trail, Continental Divide Trail and Appalachian Trail to PCT CDT, and at here's Chris Carter of Chattanooga, Tennessee from my home in New Hampshire. Have you had a you had not the kind of upbringing that someone like myself had who grew up in you know, rural Barb's you know, suburb and I suppose America, and you were brought up in Kenya. And so your experience might be different than some American kid or European kid growing up who just wants to get out of the house from mom and dad or see what you know, see what the trail might have to bring? So, could you tell me a little bit about your experience growing up, because it's truly a fascinating upbringing, that it to me is one of the most interesting aspects of your story. A lot of ways.
Chris Carter:Yeah. So I was born in America, but we moved to Kenya when I was, I think seven years old. And so I was very young, I don't remember much about America beforehand. And my parents were missionaries. My dad was a nurse and worked at our, an international school there and also at a hospital. My mom was a teacher. And so yeah, it was, you know, from a young age, that was my home, Kenya was my home, I didn't really, it didn't really register to me much that I was American, per se, are that America was my identity. You know, my friends were Kenyan, along with other missionary kids from all over the world. We were at an international school. So it was, you know, not just America, there was Australians, you know, New Zealand and Korea and all over the UK. And it was this beautiful kind of conglomeration of different perspectives and worldviews all set within this African context in a very rural kind of village setting in one respect. And so it was it was incredible to get this from a young age, a broader perspective on the world, I think. But it did make coming to America a bit of a challenge with the transition, because I look more American than most Americans have blond hair, blue eyes and pale skin. And so someone doesn't look at me. And they're like, oh, he doesn't know what a hashtag is, or how to do this, like you do, they just assume that I know, American culture. And so a lot of times were labeled as hidden immigrants, because we grew up overseas, and, you know, I speak Swahili, I understand the culture of Kenya really well, and almost like Kenya still feels like home to me. But I'm not Kenyan. I'm American, you know. And so but that background is, has influenced most of the decisions I've made in life, from my education to the things that I do like these thru hikes. You know, I was just exposed from a young age to this absolutely beautiful and wild way of outdoor living, because that's just kind of the way of life out there. You know, the notion of like an indoor zine and outdoorsy person is not something that I had had a lot of experience with in Africa. Everyone's just kind of an outdoorsy person. By necessity. They're either agrarian farmers, or they're pastoralists, hurting camels, and cows and goats. And that's just their way of life. They're outside most of the time. And so this notion that, like, you have to really try to, like get outside in the West was very new to me. And so I really resonated when I came here and clicked with the, the through hiking community, the rock climbing community, the trail running community that kind of became my people here, because that was what I connected with the most. And so So yeah, but you know, it's it's calm, constantly learning what it means to be a missionary kid who grew up in Kenya, but as American, and I have now lived in America for long enough where I have an American identity. And I feel very American in some respects in the way that I think and act and operate. I've got my own community of people here. You know, a big part of these trips, these thru hikes, the PCT, the CDT and now the at has been to really discover more about kind of my own core identity and who I am as a Kenyan, as well as an American, but also to really get a broader perspective on American culture in all its different facets, because these three trails have put me through the most beautiful terrain and landscapes of America, but also huge diversity of culture in different contexts in America, so everywhere from like, nudist colonies in Southern California to super rural, you know, one horse town villages up in Montana, where there's three people and they all just sit outside on their front porch drinking beer all day, and it's this beautiful little snapshots of America that I've gotten that I wouldn't get otherwise if I just kind of stayed in Chattanooga, which is where I ended up going to college when I came to America. And it's just that's been a really cool way for me to kind of understand more of my heritage, more of my parents heritage and kind of what it means to be a man Eric can, because it's something that I'm kind of constantly learning.
Thom Pollard:Well, that's, that is really pretty exceptional. And but you didn't talk about some other aspects of growing up in Kenya. And you know, the international students obviously was a big influence on you. Because here's a group of kids growing up from different, you know, Australia, as you said, or England or Korea or wherever that may be. But you were also in close contact with the people of Africa of Kenya. And as a child, I personally grew up like watching all the documentaries I could possibly see on on Africa. And the Maasai was one of those the the Maasai we were, they were called warriors in the films I saw. And I'm not sure if that's, I don't even know if that is right there, these tall people, and they had ornate beautiful jewelry and colorful clothing. But, and I would see these sometimes just these dances or something, but I knew so little about what the culture really was. And you told me recently that you would walk in to a village where they had never some people might never have even seen this might not even be the Messiah, but had seen a white person you walk in and boom, and you lay out some Swahili and perfect Swahili and they all their eyes pop out of their heads, right. So that's, that's an interesting exposure there. And you're out in the field with some of these people experiencing life. So could you just kind of interject a little bit about that? Yeah, for
Chris Carter:sure. I mean, I it was an interesting place where I grew up because I had a lot of other Western you could say friends that were other missionaries, or NGO workers or aid workers and their kids that I grew up with, but then it was kind of half half was like Kenyan friends and American friends. And we lived actually up in the highlands and beautiful, beautiful place called Kajabi, which is right in the escarpment of the Great Rift Valley. And the people group that we were with were the Kikuyu, but it was kind of right on the border between moss Island and cuckoo land and Kuyou. Our farmers and the Maasai were pastoralists and herdsmen. And so dropping down in the valley, he was kind of this quintessential desert landscape with acacia trees and giraffes running around. And that's where the moss I lived. And then we were up in kind of this temperate forest with the the Kikuyu, which was the beautiful waterfalls and lush forest and greenery. And it was this beautiful place to grow up some of the emergence of the two. But But yeah, it was this, it was, you know, where I grew up was interesting, because you could kind of choose to not fully invest in the culture because I was I grew up at an international school, where it was kind of a little separated from like the local school or the local community or the local village. And so there were some of my friends that just decided to kind of stay in the compound in the mission compound, and not really try to get out there and experience Kenyan culture and learn Swahili and understand, you know, all of this beautiful, intricate life going on around us. But for me, that was one of the cruxes of living in Africa. And the most beautiful part for me, was getting to go out and actually interact on a very deep intimate level with with the Messiah and the Kikuyu community that we lived with. And so from a young age, we there's kind of a tradition of going on these long motorcycle journeys and dirt bikes. And that was just like, kind of this thing that from when I first went to Africa, I would look up to these guys higher and high school and they would get up on their big 250 motorcycles and battle out into the valley and come back and regale us with tales of chasing down herds of giraffe and zebra and just I was like, That's ridiculous. And so I got my first motorcycle when I was really young, a little Honda 50 and started putting around and learning and as I grew older, you know, our parents were able to acquire some bigger and bigger bikes and that just kind of became our conduit for these super long beautiful journeys. And that's really where I started getting this passion for things like through hiking and just going on these long journeys that when you look back on them, you're like I was nuts so much happened. And it's I did a lot of backpacking and hiking and trekking but I found on the motorcycle we could just go to such remote distant areas and really come in contact with these people that we would never see if we tried to get there with a car or just general kind of touristy areas mean we would go out there for a month at a time sometimes. So pretty much from I'd say Junior High all through high school. I was any free time we had every break from school we were just enthralled and getting on our motorcycles and battling out as far as we could into the bush and you know, sleeping in trees because of hyenas and making these like ones we would you know when we first started we would actually kind of like tie ourselves to the trees because sometimes honey would come around our camp at night, maybe we're cooking some meat or something and they start getting attracted to it and they charge in and we're like, oh, man, we got to get up in the trees. And so we, we didn't have hammocks or anything at the start. So we would tie ourselves to the branches so that we wouldn't fall out. We tie ourselves to each other then so that if one of us fell out, it would wake everybody else up. But then we made we made hammocks, and then we could kind of put these hammocks up in the trees and be saved from some of the animals and stuff. But, you know, it's those, it's those early memories of those wild adventures that really start to I don't know, I think that was that was the foundation of my passion for adventure and my passion for kind of pushing physical limits and emotional limits and doing these endurance sports, like ultra running and, and through hiking and stuff. But But yeah, I mean, the the adventure side of it was beautiful. But truly, for me, what I loved was the communities that had put me in contact with because we would go out and like you said, go to some of these villages, and some of the younger kids. I mean, they never seen a white person before. And so they're freaking out what's going on. And we were all up on our motorcycles, and everyone comes out to greet us. And it's really cool, because oftentimes, we were kind of desperate and in need of supplies and stuff. And so we would come up to them and be like, hey, you know, can we maybe get some water? Could you take us in for the night and maybe put us in your BOMA, which is like a little enclosure of thorns that they, you know, they put their Hudson and then their cows and stuff at night to protect them from the animals. And oftentimes, it was a little too dangerous for us to just sleep out in the bush. And so the generosity we experienced in these communities that would just take us in, and for the night or for a couple of days, and let us stay in there. BOMA protected from the wild animals and feed us goat meat and slaughter goats for us sometimes. And it was just really beautiful to be like at their at their graces, you know, and oftentimes when you think of like, like a mission community or like the NGO world, then oftentimes it's like them kind of bringing in aid and bringing it in, it's like, I don't know, if this top down approach, which is just a little felt a little disjointed for me and kind of, for me growing up in that context, I never really, like I never thought of myself as anything other than really Kenyan. And so the dynamics between my family as a Western white family to the Africans was always a little strange and frustrating to me. And when I would go off on these trips, it was very refreshing, I felt more connected to them, because I was kind of dependent on them in a lot of ways. And just to experience their generosity was beautiful. And I got to meet some of the most fascinating characters and some of the most incredible people on those trips. And it gave me a deeper understanding of kind of what African culture was like and about. And I think it's easy for me to idealize Africa sometimes, because I had such a euphoric childhood there. And one way that when I went, I went back to Kenya and Tanzania after college to do some community development work in a couple of different contexts through the avenue of like agricultural development, and actually, like working in an African context is very different than just like living in an African context. And so I had this interesting adjustment to make of, like, instead of just having this very kind of curated, beautiful childhood, I then had to navigate all these cultural dynamics in a work setting, um, in a way that I'd never had to do in the past. And that's when I started realizing like, Man, I even though I grew up here, I have a very Western American mindset when it comes to workplace efficiency or how we think about time, or just how things get done. And that kind of has set me on this journey of like, how, like discovering kind of who I am, is this mixture of like, my, you know, influence from African culture and my influence from having Western parents and Western family and in a very Western School, and then coming to America now spending a lot of time in America. And so it's, it's kind of complicated. I'm not I don't have a conclusion yet to that. I'm in the process of kind of figuring out just who, you know how I think about certain things and stuff, but that's beautiful.
Thom Pollard:You're listening to my October of 2021 interview with Chris Carter, of Chattanooga, Tennessee, by way of Kenya, who stopped at my house on his thru hike of the Appalachian Trail tools for nomads is brought to you by top drawer. top drawers mission is to make durable, sustainable tools for creatives who work to make the world better. I fell in love with the top drawer brand when they invited me to do a presentation for them in 2017 and I never looked back from pens to Japanese how shoes to journals amazing photo albums, finely crafted paper bags, eyewear, handkerchiefs, lighters, even keychains. Check them out at top drawer shop.com, or visit one of their dozen plus meticulously outfitted shops in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Boston, Berkley, Chicago, and Tokyo. Top door shop.com. So here on the 80, you have your two feet and your body. And then I guess out in the bush, you have two wheels on an engine on a motorcycle. And so both of those things are certainly the last thing from truck with a trailer on it, meaning you just put anything you need. And like, Oh, I'm going to put a stove in here and everything, you've got to be really a carefully choose what it is you bring with you on on an endeavor. And I suppose for your body, it might be, you know, moleskin for a blister, or ibuprofen for swollen knee joint. And then on a motorcycle, it's like what kind of do you need a wrench or a screwdriver or you know, the right kind of thing to prime gas if there's bad gasoline. So that's, so you're like, for, for somebody the age of 25, you've probably been away from home, more than most people would ever in many lifetimes been away from home traveling, going from point A to wherever the next point may be ha ha ha Not, not intend No, actually, I didn't even I worked myself into wherever that point may be. So so your youth before you get up and go, you have to really think about what it is you put on your back or in the saddlebags. And that's really fascinating me you'd have to go too much in depth. But you know, the through the process of trial and error, do you just kind of can you just get up and go or does it take you weeks like some people suffer over packing?
Chris Carter:No, that's a great question. And I remember actually, the first kind of big backpacking trip I went on was in seventh grade, where I just went out with myself into friends for like four or five days through the bush and that I had always been on long trips, but with your parents let
Thom Pollard:you they're like, yeah, man, there's lions out there. Ya
Chris Carter:know, my parents are thugs. They're awesome. Like they have so much they have, well, they have a faith in God primarily that I'm going to be safe. And from the beginning, they realized that like, dude, if we're gonna live in Africa, we can not bubble wrap our kids, like, there's just no way because all the thorns in Africa are gonna pop the bubble wrap, there's like no way that they can just be totally insulated and protected. And like, we have to just kind of get them into the hands of God and be like, Hey, we don't want to limit their experience here in Africa. So but we're gonna we're gonna teach them how to be safe and how to make wise choices. But then we're gonna let them go out and have these experiences. And so yeah, when I started kind of getting this desire to push further and further out from the home, then it was it was challenging for them. You know, we I didn't have a cell phone until I was like a junior in high school or something, or like, probably, I guess. It was like my sophomore year, I got this little Nokia brick. And like, I would only use it on motorcycle trips to like call, maybe call my mom and stuff. And like, it's just a very, you know, iPhones weren't even on the radar or anything. And so, navigation was interesting as well. But But yeah, I mean, I, we would not we would go for a week without contacting them, you know, and we're out in the bush and, like, so much happens. And I finally called them like, yeah, we ran into this herd of hyenas. And then we had three flat tires. And then we enraged this Maasai tribe. And they chased us out of their land and stuff. It's like, they're like, Well, I'm glad you're okay. You know. And so that's faith. That's dude. 100%. So they do, they're awesome. And I'm so grateful for them for allowing me to go out and do these things. But oh, my God, I remember the first the first kind of backpacking trip that I just went on as kind of like, I kind of like planned it and led it and coordinated all the other ones I've been out with older kids, or older, or my parents or older people, and they had always planned it and stuff. And this one, my dad was like, Hey, man, I think you should like plan this trip. And it'd be a really good experience for you and it's gonna be really hard. But then after this, subsequent trips are just gonna get easier and easier and easier. And you're gonna dial in your setup, you're gonna dial in what you need. And so I remember it being terrifying and I just was struck with the reality of all the logistics that you have to plan for a trip, particularly a trip through the bush where there's not like a set trail or anything so you're figuring out GPS coordinates and how long it's going to take you where you can maybe find water and all this stuff. And you know, is it dangerous is are there people's lands that we're going to go through that they're going to be angry and I was just like, wow, you know, I this is what I want. This is the way I wanted to live my life from a young age. I always knew I wanted to be an explorer and an adventure but Took me a long time to really dial in what that means. And so I remember going out you know, I packed my backpack the fattest backpack you can ever imagine, because I had never dialed in my gear setup. And so we were packing full cans of beans and like, you know, chunks of meat that people had given us and it's absurd. And but that was this huge catalyst for me of like, giving me a lot of confidence that like, alright, I can do this, I can plan I can lead trips. And just like understanding that I can make this a lot more efficient. So the next trip I went on, you know, we packed lighter food, we didn't bring this and we were dialed in the setup. And we knew where we wanted to go a little bit more and we went further and further and further to we were doing week trips, and then month trips and stuff. And from there, you just every trip you go on, you dial your setup, and a little more you drop your pathway, if it's a motorcycle trip, you learn how to fix a carburetor. And then you learn how to, you know, patch a tire in a better way. And like motorcycle trips are way more complicated than then you know, backpacking trips because there's this whole maintenance side of it and, and Africa just beats up motorcycles to just tortures them. And so I would not consider myself a phenomenal motorcycle mechanic, one of the guys that I would always go to, we kind of had our roles on the trips, and one guy was kind of the master mechanic, one guy fixed tires really fast. One guy would cook, you know, all these things. And so we had different roles. And oftentimes, I relied on my friends that knew a lot more about motorcycle maintenance than I did. And so I've got a long ways to go. I know the basics, and I'm getting a lot better at it. But it's It shocks me how complicated it is sometimes, but that's the beautiful side of it. You know, in my perspective, the harder something is, the more technical The more time you have to put into it. The longer the planning stages, the more beautiful it is. I love planning for trips, it's one of my favorite things ever. When you get everyone that's going to be going on the trip over, you lay out all your food, you lay out all your tools, you bring the maps out, and you're just like, we're going to do this and this and this and you leave the plans flexible obviously. But you have this goal and this in. That's beautiful to me. But But yeah, you know, it's got to you got to get it dialed in and it just, it takes a lot of time. But it's beautiful. Once you start seeing that progress, it's like alright, I'm, I'm lighter than I was I'm more efficient than I was, you know.
Thom Pollard:I would say you're probably the first person I've talked to in all the interviews I've done over the years and video podcasts World Film World TV, you name it, that I could really say there's there's a like kind of a nomadic lifestyle going here. I mean, you could you and you didn't have to Oh, it was in your it's in your heart. That's, that's not a word that I use very often. Maybe I might say it to someone to compliment them and they go yes, you know, but no, you've you've truly lived it. And you've learned from real nomads like the Messiah or the disrobe the other tribe who you are the one Yeah. And so you have such a wealth of knowledge in there and you're only 25 That's That's really incredible. And so I I admire you for that. And it's it's really, so I'm so if if we should ever plan in an adventure together. You'll be the guy packing. Can
Chris Carter:we talk about that? Right? Yeah, yes, we will be on tape. So it happens.
Thom Pollard:It will. Yeah. So Pan African motorcycle trip. That's right. So yeah, so if I tried to pack an extra pair of underwear, you've liked it? No, you're done
Chris Carter:that one pair of under one pair of undies. That's it. However, maybe just tiny shorts, and then you don't have to worry about underwear.
Thom Pollard:So let's do a really quick, interesting side story. And then we'll end it and so you you were you're hiking shorts have like the Kenyan flag motif on it. And you out of the blue bumped into some people walking down a trail from Kenya, who immediately hit you with some Swahili is that yeah,
Chris Carter:well, it was at Mount Katahdin actually, which was North northern part of northern terminus of the AG, which was a beautiful place to begin, I mean, just a stunning mountain. But ya know, I hadn't I mean, I hadn't spoken Swahili, since I'd been in Kenya and Tanzania, like about a year ago at this point. And so it was, you know, it was beautiful because I was walking up the trail and then there was these two ladies coming down. And I noticed that they were you can kind of see a Kenyan. I don't know, they just have this aura about them and way of carrying themselves and when they when they kind of walked closer, they said he's wearing the Kenyan flag, you know? And they started and they were like, I don't get Kiswahili Do you speak Swahili? I got perma stoked, man. I was Slowking do no good. I was like I hadn't spoken in a really long time. It was awesome. And we just had this like beautiful connection right off the bat and I was like hiking with Wow And then they were with a couple of people that were guiding them up Mount Katahdin. And they were all just like, What the heck is going on this white AF kid is suddenly speaking Swahili with these people. And it was just I was beautiful man, it was really, really cool. And I think, just language in general is this, like just this incredible way of connecting with people on such a deep level, I'd never met them before. And even when we talked about it wasn't super deep. It was just surface level. What do you do? How long have you been in the states where you're going all this stuff, but man, just the act of speaking to them speaking in a language that I love so dearly, was beautiful. And, you know, Swahili is a very dynamic language. It's not just like, talking. It's like tonal, you know. So if I'm going to say that something is like, far away is like, embody is the word for Farley eco Mbali Sana, but if it's like relatively far away, or can I close it, she'd say Bali, but if it's like way for you be like money, you know, like you raise your voice a little bit. So this is very dynamic language. And it's also a very physical language, you know, and so, you're kind of like, giving people high fives a lot more. And dude, it's just really beautiful and dynamic. And something that I kind of miss out on a little bit when I'm speaking English. For some people. I feel a little bit, I guess, limited sometimes. But and so yeah, man, it was beautiful. And it made me miss Kenya a lot, for sure. So I, I want to go back. You know, there's too many cool things to do in the world. And I've come to a point where there's beats, I've have home in America, and I have people in America, and I'm very thankful for my life here. And it's, it's, it's I'm grateful to reach that point. Because when I first came to America, dude, I just pined away for Africa, I missed it every day, I was like, This place sucks. Like, I can go on these crazy trips, these journeys, you know, I was just like, confined to school and stuff. And, and then I started actually, you know, getting to experience what America had to offer. And then I was like, Man, you can really, if you want to, you can live a very nomadic or very adventurous lifestyle, if you choose to. It's just not necessarily as readily available, maybe as I had experienced in my childhood, but if you seek it out, then then you can find it, you know? So, yeah,
Thom Pollard:yeah. So Okay, last thing. So you you made that choice in your own heart. You could you I mean, we have free freewill. You could have done whatever you wanted. And I've been welcomed into any community and everything but, but a lot of people who might be listening to this interview with you, or watching this interview might wonder if you have any advice to impart on packing, if you will, what, what, how do you, you know, somebody is trying to keep it light, somebody doesn't want you know, they're not going to check in two bags on on an airplane flight or something. Just any any advice? And, you know, for the person that's listening to one of the most traveled people I know, at least at your age.
Chris Carter:Yeah, it's it is tricky. It's a balance. And I think what it boils down to is comfort level and your threshold for discomfort. So, you know, for me personally, I've gotten to the point where I can live a very comfortable life with myself with maybe 20 items, you know, in my backpack. And so for some people, they need 40 or 100 items to be very comfortable but for me, I don't need that much. It depends on what type of journey you're doing. If you're traveling on like a tour or your like backpacking Europe or something where you're going and visiting different places and you're staying in very urban centers a lot then you're obviously going to have to pack a change of clothes or two or and have different things that make you more comfortable and in that setting for me I've been my travels recently have mostly been these backpacking trips these thru hiking trips where I'm gone for six, seven months at a time but I literally have one change of I don't have a change of clothes I have one pair of clothes like we're wearing right now in fact Yeah, well right now I'm wearing your clothes washing well and that's it but it's an interesting point right? Like not everyone would be confident coming into someone's house and being like, Hey, can I borrow a shirt while I wash my shirt because I have no other shirt. You know? And so my pack is very small and tiny but when I started out I would have three shirts, two pairs of underwear, two changes of shorts because I wanted to change I wanted to you know not have my shirt be dirty all the time. I think what what it really boils down to is needs versus once you know and if you don't need it, then highly consider why you're carrying it because it's not physical items, per se are more things and more stuff that bring us happiness, particularly if you're looking to travel right like you're not leaving your home and going to you know Norway because you want to have a better experience with your iPad or with the shirt or something like you're going for the experience with others and with nature and with these mountains and, and so really like honestly more and more items just kind of clutters that experience. And so what do you need on those journeys, you really don't need much at all you need just the bare necessities. So figure out what your comfort level is, and then stick with that and really just cut off all the fat and just have that perfect little setup. And then don't feel like you need to add more, you know, and so, for you know, it's, it looks different for each person. For me, it's very, very minimal. For somebody else, it's a little bit more, but as long as you can keep paring it down, I think a minimalist lifestyle is very beautiful and allows you to pull a lot of, I don't know a lot of joy out of wherever you're going. And for me as a backpacker, having a very lightweight pack allows me to enjoy the miles a little more, because my bag isn't hurting as much. And so and if I'm on a motorcycle ride, then I'm not using as much fuel if I can really pare down my pack weight and have a very lightweight setup, because it doesn't have to haul as much weight and it's easier to really rip it around. And if I'm going through a boulder resection, I can chuck the motorcycle around a little more. And so it just in my opinion, the more minimalist you are, then the more enjoyable you're going to have in an adventurous lifestyle. And yeah, but you know, it takes a lot of time to really figure out what that means for yourself.
Thom Pollard:Yeah, you could be a consultant Well, I guess the cat is out of the bag. Chris and I had talked about a Pan African motorcycle adventure. I think if we are ever to pull this adventure off, I will need to hone in on my packing abilities and know how to eliminate more than just one extra pair of underwear. I think I need to really learn how to ride a motorcycle in the desert. So I guess it's time to get training. You can find Chris on Instagram at Chris Carter 146 and his film is on YouTube. It's called to measure a mile. Thank you Chris. See you on the trail my nomad friend. Thanks for visiting tools for nomads an up close and insightful look into the lives and habits of passionate and creatively prolific people like Chris Carter, who embrace and cherish the nomadic lifestyle. Be sure to subscribe, like and comment wherever you are listening tools for nomads is brought to you by top drawer. A top drawer nomadism isn't simply about being on the move. It's about loving and living life where the things we carry directly impact our productivity, our well being and even our identity. Top tour combines the quality and craftsmanship of our grandparents generation with the drive for independence, function, and stylish sustainability. It all results in a collection of tools curated from around the world that help you do your best work wherever you are. Visit top chore shop.com or visit one of their dozen plus meticulously outfitted shops in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Boston, Berkeley, Chicago and Tokyo. Top Choice shop.com Thank you for visiting. I'm Thom Pollard. See you next time on tools for nomads.