Michael Palmisano - Creating a New Life as a YouTube Influencer
“Are you a professional or are you an amateur? Do you view yourself as a professional? Meaning, Is this what you do with your life? Or is it a hobby? And if you do this professionally, if this is the profession that you've chosen, you do have to be constantly working on your craft. "
Michael Palmisano and his wife staked their savings on the hopes that Michael would make it big as a YouTuber. After losing just about everything, then getting it back again, it’s been a steady rise ever since. Michael’s YouTube community is 364,000 subscribers and growing.
As a guitar teacher who made his name by making videos showing him ‘reacting’ to live concert performances( by bands that we all know), Michael soon entered the elite world of YouTube influencers. Thom wanted to know what it takes to build a community where hundreds of thousands of people find a sense of belonging and identity on a YouTube channel. and what the special sauce is for success.
If you’re one of the 122 million active daily YouTube users consuming over a billion hours of video every day, or even just the occasional browser, you’ll want to meet Michael.
Listen and be inspired!
Michael Palmisano - Creating a New Life as a YouTube Influencer
“Are you a professional or are you an amateur? Do you view yourself as a professional? Meaning, Is this what you do with your life? Or is it a hobby? And if you do this professionally, if this is the profession that you've chosen, you do have to be constantly working on your craft. "
Michael Palmisano and his wife staked their savings on the hopes that Michael would make it big as a YouTuber. After losing just about everything, then getting it back again, it’s been a steady rise ever since. Michael’s YouTube community is 364,000 subscribers and growing.
As a guitar teacher who made his name by making videos showing him ‘reacting’ to live concert performances( by bands that we all know), Michael soon entered the elite world of YouTube influencers. Thom wanted to know what it takes to build a community where hundreds of thousands of people find a sense of belonging and identity on a YouTube channel. and what the special sauce is for success.
If you’re one of the 122 million active daily YouTube users consuming over a billion hours of video every day, or even just the occasional browser, you’ll want to meet Michael.
Listen and be inspired!
I've come to realize that what people like me really sell for lack of a better word. Whether it's people who teach music, or if you're in the peloton, instructors or whatever it is you're into. What you're really trying to do is get people to believe in themselves and to buy into themselves and to invest in themselves and give themselves give themselves a chance for one's you know.
Thom Pollard:Following is an interview with Michael Powell Maisano YouTube influencer, setting new precedents in the world of copyright and music licensing on his channel, digital guitar teacher, dad, and husband. On Thom Pollard on tools for nomads, we meet creative passionate professionals, nomads, driven by their passion for excellence and success. Wherever you're listening, please be sure to subscribe, give a rating and a review. The YouTube version of this interview will be on our YouTube page in a week's time. Please find us there too and subscribe. Let us know what you think and comment often. Michael Palmisano and his wife staked their savings on the hopes that Michael would make it as a YouTuber after losing just about everything in the process and then getting it back again. Because Youtube page and digital Guitar School has been on a steady rise ever since. Michael's YouTube community is 380,000 subscribers and growing. With over 44 million views on his channel alone. He became a YouTube wonder with his react videos where he sits in front of his screen and pulls up a live concert performance by famous bands. And then he reacts he breaks down the notes and chords so that aspiring and armchair musicians alike can learn alongside him. They get the inside scoop and how to be a rock star of their own world by understanding the habits and the procedures and the undertaking of putting a live performance together and how to make it stick. Michael is indeed a YouTube influencer. I met him a year ago for an interview and reached out to him again to learn not about guitars or notes or technique, but about what it takes to build a community where hundreds of 1000s of people find a sense of belonging and identity virtually on his YouTube channel, I wanted to know what his special sauce was for success. Here's Michael Palmisano from his home studio in Maryland, USA. Thank you, I'm honored. Yeah, I appreciate it. And so you are in the YouTube world with without jumping right into it. It is the deep end already, I suppose. But but YouTube is is? Well I believe that it is the most or second most used or searched engine on the internet like so people go to YouTube. Now, if they can't figure out how to start their lawn mower snowblower or to make their TV Wi Fi HC hookup. They go to YouTube for a video.
Michael Palmisano:Yeah, so yeah, so yeah, number one is Google number two is YouTube. And obviously Google owns YouTube. But yeah, I mean, that's, that's the thing these days, you know, it's so easy for anybody with any type of expertise or something to share, to pull out their phone, you know, get a ring light, you know, make a video so anything from I mean, I watch it all the time from long form content podcasts, how to how to change my, you know, my disposal in my sink. I mean, it's there's content for everything on there. And it's just, it's, it's made everything so easy. I love it.
Thom Pollard:So when you started on YouTube, you and still are but your company was guitar gate you are but we're primarily a guitar teacher. So you would take a 30 minute lesson as many times a week as you could and, and you're married and starting a family. It's hard. That's hard work and and this YouTube thing comes along. And so did you see it coming? When? Or was this like a conscious effort to say, Hey, I gotta find a different way to kind of add to my income or to support my family. Like, honestly, what was the genesis of it?
Michael Palmisano:So all of this, all of this came, in my opinion out of necessity. I'm very blessed to have been born when I was Warren gone through the things that I had gone through growing up and gotten to the place where I was when the internet kind of came to fruition and online education became viable and proud of myself that I chose to take that leap when I did. Basically what happened was, I was a an in person instructor. I was teaching as many kids and adults as I could a week, I was in a band coach, coaching kids rock bands. And I was also gigging full time in a corporate band doing 110 120 dates a year. And, and my wife was a special ed teacher. So we were both we were both teachers. And we were both at our absolute ceiling, not just as far as income, but as far as time. And you can't, I couldn't teach any more people during the day, there weren't any hours left, I couldn't do any more gigs. Because you can only be on stage once at a time. Basically, nothing was scalable, and we were scaled out. And around 2011 2012, I started seeing some early adopters like Marty Schwartz and Justin Sander co starred to at least appear to make a living teaching guitar online. And around 2013, after a couple years of toying with the idea, I decided to go all in. And you have to remember now this seems like yesterday, but 10 years ago was a very different world. It wasn't obvious online education wasn't, wasn't a wildly adopted thing. In household, you couldn't easily make content with phones, there was no ad platform. In Facebook, you couldn't you couldn't run ads, YouTube didn't didn't have ads, Instagram was a couple months old it was It wasn't like it is today. And so it all formed out of necessity, basically, my wife and I sat down and I was like, Look, I see these people doing it. I love education, I think that we can build a life around our family with my current skill set. If I go all in on this, you know, I'm not going to fail. And, and that's what happened. So we we spent all our money, made a website, made a course did all the things wrong, lost money for a couple years. But long story short, we eventually found success by not giving up. And this all happened before YouTube, I had sold many, many courses all over the world, before YouTube, and then around 2019, or 2018. The YouTube thing just kind of happened after making five or 600 videos that never went anywhere. I eventually found this react series stumbled upon it went and that was my basic my voice my uniqueness online. And it's kind of just been skyrocketing ever since. And of course, you know, with the YouTube views comes organic traffic the students to your website. And so, you know, now we have students in basically every country, basically everywhere except Antarctica. And, and it's just, it's just completely, it's changed my life. I'm so grateful that that education is now scalable on an individual level, globally. And it's just, it's, I'm forever grateful.
Thom Pollard:That's, that's fascinating, because the thing about YouTube, it really brings knowledge and information to the planet to the world. And now that the internet and the ability to receive the internet in many corners of the world is is that much the net is that much greater. The world is becoming educated. So I found you I'm a guitar guy, you can see him behind me. I went and sought out Justin and Marty and you for beta information, but primarily for me. It was the inspiration, you know, so you're conveying an energy and an essence. And, gosh, it makes your making the world a better place. I mean, it probably doesn't always feel that way. But you are.
Michael Palmisano:Well, man, I really do appreciate that. So I can tell you that over time. My perspective on this has changed because it has evolved, I have evolved and it's become more clear what's actually happening. So when he started this conversation, it was all you know, I'm doing this for my family. I'm creating this this is my skill set. This is my struggle. This is my story. The longer I've done it, and the more emails I've gotten from people saying, the type of impact you're inferring, and how much of a difference it's made in their lives, not just musically, but just having a beacon of positivity, you know, some someplace where it's not negative, something where you see somebody, you know, trying to get better. And, and encouraging others to do. So, over the years of getting all those emails and seeing that comeback, I've come to realize that what people like me really sell for lack of a better word, whether it's people who teach music, or if you're in a peloton, instructors, or whatever it is, you're into, what you're really trying to do, is get people to believe in themselves and to buy into themselves and to invest in themselves, and give themselves give themselves a chance for once you know, and that's really the thing and, and I think those of us that, that have reached a certain size, and and can kind of look at it from that macro level, kind of really agree on that front, and when those of us that are successful at it, and that seem to be able to sustain it over time, communicate through that lens, you know, and realize that, that the real thing that's happening here, is you're trying to inspire that person from your education, but it's really inspiration for that person to believe in themselves, you know, whether they're right down the street, or on the other side of the world. And music is just the vehicle or fitness or cooking or whatever it is you're into.
Thom Pollard:Yeah. So that perfectly said, and I get that. And thank you for sharing that. So, Michael, the struggles are real, obviously. And I follow a lot of YouTube channels, not necessarily out of because it's the content that interests me, but I'm fascinated with what makes it work. And yeah, you can be you could be the greatest guitar teacher in the world, and it might not work. So you have to kind of learn how a video works, how it draws people in algorithm, things like of that nature. And so, you know, I watched this interview not long ago, or listen to it on Spotify with Mr. Beast, and kid, and on the Rogan Joe Rogan show. And here's this kid, who is clearly obsessed with learning what it is that makes YouTube work. And now he's 23, or four or five years old, and as 95 million subscribers on YouTube and literally gives away a million dollars in for just a video. You know, I mean? So it's so he learned, what keeps people around? So did you? Are you that dialed into it? Or do you just do your thing and go, some are gonna like it some art or you know what I mean? Like, what keeps people around for you?
Michael Palmisano:So the answer is yes. Not to that level. So here's the thing, you have to realize that what you're what you're vying for is attention. The attention graph is what's at stake, and so older. So most of my friend Tim Pierce, who's also a guitar instructor always tells me and I always rings true, that in the end, you end up with the audience that you're supposed to have. Meaning people connect with you online, for the same reasons they would connect with you in person. And some people, some people are just going to have massive, massive, massive communities and some people are going to have very, very small ones. It's all an extension of their person and who they are, what their genre is, it works for different people at different times for different reasons. And that's the truth. Mr. What's cool about Mr. Beast is that he is an absolute student of his craft, and his craft is making the videos and constantly reinvesting in that craft. Where the videos for me are very much a documentation of me working on my craft. So me working on my craft, is the guitar is actually teaching because those the things that I'm passionate about, I'm not actually passionate about making videos, which is why you don't see me have any edits in my videos. You don't see a bunch to different angles. And so for anybody that's, that's listening. What that means is it pay attention to the videos that you watch, maybe a teenager watches and that your kids watch. If you watch any videos that say your kids watch, you're going to, you're going to see a split screen, something zoom in and out of volume, change something flash something to regain attention every two seconds, basically, okay? Because that's geared towards children as you get older. Okay, you can spread that out a little more, Mr. Beast knows his demo, he knows exactly the attention graph of where people fall off and drop off. And when he has to do all those different things. It same thing in writing. Same thing in movies, this isn't a new concept, right. But for someone like me, who doesn't make their living off of ad revenue from videos, and the video is more of a conduit for me to meet you. I remove off filters and try to work every day on being someone who delivers the message better, and continues to hone their craft to inspire other people to do the same. So so it's it's, it's not just all video is equal. It's it's different things work for different people for different times at different reasons. It's that is the God's honest truth. The hard part is knowing why someone likes you. And, and, and defining that, and finding actionable items to kind of build a world around that. That's, that's what's challenging.
Thom Pollard:Right on Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And your friend Tim Pierce, that's those are sage words. That's that's your building a community about who you are in there in one of the things I talked to kids, especially when I do talks on adventures and things is to be authentic and not try to change yourself to please another because it just doesn't work. And you're not happy doing it.
Michael Palmisano:That's right. But I will say though, so that's one side of it. Right? That's the largest side. But the other side of it is? Are you a professional? Or are you an amateur? Like do you do? Do you view yourself as a professional meaning? Is this what you do with your life? Or is it a hobby, and if you if you do this professionally, and this is the profession that you've chosen, you do have to be constantly working on your craft. And so the example that I would use for me, is because I know that I'm not a quote unquote, videographer, that's not my strengths. And I'm choosing to play to my strengths and basically be live with everything that I do. I pay a great amount of tension to my speech patterns, the flow of where I take breaths. Am I talking? Same thing as guitar playing? Am I talking too much without saying something poignant where perhaps someone may have lost interest? Take a breath. Regain yourself, say something that brings someone back in, in that real time without the Edit without the zoom in, zoom out. Those are the things that I work on constantly. Because this is my chosen profession. That's my version of it. Just like live playing is the same thing.
Thom Pollard:Yeah, right. Sure. It's a performance ultimately. That's right. It's not easy. I mean, I'm sure that there are some overnight sensations but YouTube stars or social media stars, like Gary Vee says, Yeah, right. My overnight success took 10 years of insane commitment. And I never stopped. I might took seven freak of nature, but 10 years, it took them to get overnight success. So there's a you didn't just go, boop, and change your life. It's work.
Michael Palmisano:No, it's definitely work. And what's interesting in my in my field, is that I, I feel like a little bit of an anomaly in the sense that when you look at the huge channels, a lot of them had fairly immediate success. At least it took maybe a year or two for them to start getting traction on YouTube. took me seven took me seven. And a lot of the early adopters are the ones that rank the highest and it's getting harder and harder and harder for anybody new to break through because there's just so little attention out there and you're competing against all of it. But yeah, Gary's exactly right. And I was talking to someone about this on a podcast recently. But basically, that seven to 10 year rule is true with anything. That is, I feel like Malcolm Gladwell did a case on this. Where base basically harkening back to that different things work for different people at different times, for different reasons. It takes people on average, about seven to 10 years in any new endeavor, for them to figure out how to make it work for them in that place at that time. That's it's kind of a thing. People, generally speaking, don't figure out their lane, in two to three years, that is an anomaly. Regardless of whether you're on video, or whatever you do for a living, that's, it's just true. And so whenever I talk to people about, hey, I want to do this, I want to start teaching online, I want to do YouTube, which again, this is a whole nother conversation. But I always tell them, the first thing you got to understand is the mindset. Look at this, as you are going back to school, you're starting a new career, you are getting married, or you're getting this is a new marriage, that you just had a child like things that you know, you got to give it at least four or five years before you even start to measure the success of it. Like you know, you know, it's going to take at least for probably seven, maybe even 10 to achieve whatever made you choose this massive pivot in your life. And that is the mindset you have to take on. And if you do that, you'll succeed as long as you don't quit.
Thom Pollard:Yeah, that's really good information and advice. And, you know, so you are probably as a person who makes a living on YouTube and and through the work that you do, and granted, I know you have your, your guitar courses, which I love and are very beautifully done and they are forever. You're probably keeping an eye on whatever trends are emerging. Because who knows, maybe one day YouTube doesn't exist or tick tock takes over or Instagram takes over. So you kind of keep being aware of that thinking if you and if YouTube shuts me down and we can talk about Sony that's what I think. So yeah, okay, well well then let's talk about that. So your use YouTube you think at least is going to be there in the foreseeable future. However because of the nature of your videos, which is your your special videos, our guitar teacher reacts Yeah. Meaning you react to a live performance, usually a live performance. Yes. And what happens is some bands that have well very well known bands are out there and a live performance and the record or or, if you will, the licensing companies like to shut you down? Yes. So you did last night and you're live I think you said something like you have five claims out back against Sony Music appeals. Yes. appeal. So walk me through that. So you're getting shut down. Every time you put a let's say a Van Halen video up or right now you got a Bob Marley video that seems to be hanging in there. Gotta love it. Rasta man, like, yeah, I love that keep it going with the Marley Thank ya. So what's tell me how does this work? Because this is really this is your bread and butter. And they're shutting you down? And you're not trying to steal anything? You're if anything, you're inspiring people.
Michael Palmisano:Yeah, so here's how it works. And there's there's a lot of confusion and misinformation about this. Because frankly, it's new and people don't understand. And very few people actually share what's going on and, and, and know about it right? Because very few of us actually get to this level where we feel it. So basically, the issue at hand is what's called fair use for anybody listening. Fair use is meaning meaning what is fair, or when is it fair to use copyrighted material and your first thought would be never. But the i but there's a reason that CNN can play clips of Fox News and commentate over. There's a reason that ESPN can play a clip of a ballgame that was on NBC Sports. That is that is fair use in its essence. Now, they're not uploading the entire baseball game full will screen and rebroadcasting on their channel, that would be illegal. But what they can do is called critical commentary. And there's lots of other examples of fair use, where it occupies a small portion of the screen, or if it does occupy the whole screen, it's not again, the entire product, you commentate over it, you start and stop it. Basically, the legal language is, it's not a market substitute. No one would watch one thinking it's the other. Okay? That's, that's, that's what we're up against. The issue is that those examples in news and sports have been flushed out for many, many decades. That started in in print, you know, this journalist said that, and then the radio and then the TV. And all of this has been dealt with, okay. This, this hasn't been dealt with, in music before. Because music used to be a physical product. You know, you you couldn't just you can't, there was no channel for music that you'd like if it was on the radio, if it was on Sirius XM, or whatever, they all got licensing fees from it. Okay. So now what's happening is you have these YouTube videos and these YouTube channels that you know, these official channels that upload their, their music, and there are videos that go with it. And the way that YouTube works is anytime you upload something, it and this is the same tick tock, Facebook, all of them. It's it gets processed, and it creates what you could think of as a digital fingerprint. And so anytime someone else, upload something, and it gets processed, and it matches that digital fingerprint, take it's a ping, now, YouTube, Facebook, Tik Tok, etc. They don't know if that is occupying the whole screen. They don't know what app they that there's no details, right? Fair use is a case by case basis in court. There's no blanket Fair Use whatever. It's a case by case basis. So So you got to ask yourself, so why on YouTube, on ESPN, can they play clips of say, NBC Sports? Why is that possible? The answer is that they whitelist them. They they have it in their settings. Where if if I get this digital fingerprint, but it's associated with this channel, we've given that channel permission. It's why it's why nugs can broadcast, fish, Grateful Dead, Metallica, all these different things, because they've given that specific channel, a whitelist permission to do that. Anybody else that hits that there's a whole different series of things that can happen. But basically, you can set it to do nothing, you can set it to share the revenue, you can set it to take the revenue, you can set it to block the video, and you can set it to issue a copyright strike. Most of these record companies, rights holders, if you will, to speak broadly, at the top of the food chain, it's really a handful of companies they have been incredibly consolidated. And for a lot of these legacy bands and I'll again broadly say legacy meaning pre internet 2005 or pre YouTube 2005 ish. A lot of them have blanket policies. So whether you're Sony Music UMG WMD, whatever it is, the older the band, it seems that their policies are more and more and more to block and the newer bands it's it's share them or take the money, share the money and very few do zero. So I say all that to say that music educators like myself and the other obvious one that waves the flag for this is my friend Rick beato. believe firmly that music education is not limited to music. You need context. You can't teach a song without playing the song. Right? It's it's not possible. And in this internet day and age, you watch me post the videos. I play a clip. It occupies one section of the screen. I don't play the whole concert I focus on one song. I start and stop it commentate over it. Show the thing. It's clearly not a market substitute. Under no one in the world would watch my video that's 29 Minutes and thinking they're watching the five minute live performance on it, for sure. But YouTube doesn't know that. And these rights holders also don't, I mean, these things are all automated, for the most part, at least the first part is automated. But what's happened over time is that it's, it's, it's, it's increasing in intensity. And basically, every video that I do, has a content claim, at least half of them get blocked, I fight all of them now. And I win some, I lose some, I do have a strike on my channel. But it's gotten to the point where it's becoming very, very hard to do what I do for a living, it's absolutely making it, it's it making the revenue generation impossible. And so I've decided to start appealing some of these decisions and appealing these decisions means that when when the when the automation blocks your video, like when when it hits the digital fingerprint, and it says, Okay, you played something from UMG, that's automatically a block, it takes it down, you can dispute it, if you dispute it, they have 30 days, if they don't do anything, because again, it's all automated, then the video will go back up, and then you'll see me post those and talk about it. But if I dispute it, and they, they don't acknowledge my dispute, and they say it's invalid, that's a human being doing that, reviewing that. That's that part isn't automated. And so then they hit that button, and they give you a takedown notice, basically. And what that means is you either have to take the video down, or they're gonna give you a copyright strike. And if you get three, they take your YouTube channel, and copyright strikes are not tied to like your business name or anything like that they're tied to your social security number. So if I were to do that, it means I could never upload basically anything, again to any platform. Oh, my gosh, dude, it's such a mess, right? And, and so that has been happening more and more. And so obviously, the videos just really never come up, they never see the light of day. But it's gotten to such an egregious level that I've started appealing them. So basically, if you feel like you're on firm legal grounds, then you can appeal it at the risk of your channel. And they then have 30 days to start a court order. Which means unless they take you to court, within 30 days, your video will go back up. And so I think I have five of those right now with Sony. And they're all like, between 10 and 15 days left. And I've just kind of reached the point where like, I'm just gonna see what happens here. And I almost would like them. It seems very unlikely that they'll probably just say, Oh, I'm not spending the money on this, this nobody but I almost like to go to court because I really feel I'm right. And I would like to be whitelisted and not live like this.
Thom Pollard:Wow. Actually, you could set in in however this turns out, you might be on the leading edge or the sharp tip of the spear in helping set at least some element of a new precedent on YouTube and that Fair Use fight. So maybe risky, though. It's risen. Because you if you lose YouTube, it's over.
Michael Palmisano:So what do you do? It doesn't mean doesn't mean my business is over. It just means. So the way I like to explain it to people is there's a reason that you can go and tape festivals now. Right? There's a section at festivals where tapers are allowed to go. But that wasn't always the case. What happened was people started coming, and they started bringing their microphones. And after a period of years, the bands starting with the Grateful Dead basically just decided we're not going to be music police. This is dumb. We're not good. But the first few people for the first couple years they got in big trouble. You know, like you don't want to be number one to two you want to be number like you know 60 Something to do this, you know, but either way, the point is that I've kind of resigned myself at this point to at least risk One more strike to see to see how how deep down the rabbit hole this actually goes.
Thom Pollard:You're listening to my April 2022 interview with Michael Powell Maisano YouTube influencer and digital A guitar teacher from his home studio in Maryland. Tools for nomads is brought to you by top drawer. top drawers mission is to make durable, sustainable tools for creatives who work to make the world better. I fell in love with the top drawer brand when they invited me to do a presentation for them at their annual meeting in Boston, Massachusetts. Top drawer makes tools for travel writing accessories for everyday carry. They design and make and meticulously curate tools for travel and work like travel bags and backpacks, Japanese house shoes, journals, amazing photo albums, finely crafted paper readers and sunglasses handkerchiefs, check them out at top door shop.com or visit one of their dozen plus meticulously outfitted shops San Francisco, Los Angeles, Boston, Berkeley, Chicago, and Tokyo. Top tour shop.com. Tell them tell me real quickly about you making an effort to reboot the algorithm with the five best live concert shows murders video, because that's brilliant. And it worked. And I clicked immediately and click thumbs up and yeah, so just explain it to the listeners or the viewers of this. And you know how you rebooted the algorithm on YouTube for everybody's benefit.
Michael Palmisano:Yeah, so this so this was a test. A lot of people have a misconception of what the algorithm is, it's this unsubstantiated thing that no one can understand that moves. And while that's true, you know, the the basis is YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok, whatever, they just want you to stay on the platform for as long as possible, they really don't care what you're watching, they just don't watch you watching TV, okay, are going for a hike, okay, they want you, they want you on there. So the algorithm is, is if you have a high performing video, you know, the algorithm pushes videos that keep attention longer, that reach larger audiences, for whatever, that video was a big video for me. It, it is what they call evergreen content. So it is, you know, when you do top 10 lists or whatever, there's a bunch of different examples, but it's videos that are going to perform over a long period of time, the opposite of which would be like somebody making a video about something that happened newsworthy today, you know, think that would be the opposite of an evergreen video, like, like the Will Smith slap thing like that. Like, like, there's going to be content on that for a week. And it's going to go up like this. And then it's going to be a logarithmic curve, it's just going to go, right? Where, where an algorithmic curve, you know, like an exponential curve will go like this forever, in perpetuity. So that's an evergreen video, right? So for everybody that's listening, you know, a logarithmic curve goes up like a rocket ship, and then goes over to the side and eventually flattens out and you reach diminishing returns, or an exponential curve is the opposite. It starts out flat, and it goes up like a rocket ship, you know, reaching exponential returns. So that's the idea. And so and so imagine you're going up that exponential curve, and then someone hits the pause button, which is, which is which is it being blocked, and it flatlines to the right. In basically any scenario, that video dies, the content is dead, because even if you get it to go public, again, again, meaning you dispute it, the claim expires or enough time passes, and it goes back live, once you hit public, all those last days, which I think it was like five or I don't remember, but it was days multiple days. It doesn't just pick up that last ground. The algorithm does not distinguish between, you know, things that were disputed and not disputed. It's it's did you have attention, or did you not? So you basically can't You can't reboot dead videos. It just this is a main issue that content creators have when they use copyrighted content. Because if it goes down, it dies. It dies. And so I tried an experiment when I got it unblocked, and it's still in appeal. It could still go down in 10 days or however many it is. But you know, the goal is to see can we read boost it. And so basically, when it went back live, I fired up my email list and made a video and tried to get, try to try to reboot the algorithm to see if it's even a thing that's possible. And it worked. And it worked. It went from, you know, 150,000 views when it was blocked, and now it's over 400,000 views. Yeah.
Thom Pollard:So essentially, you reached out to all your subscribers on the email list, and then maybe even a live video and said, Hey, go back to this video, click it. And even if you don't watch it, even mute it, and just let it play through me a thumbs up and a comment, because Because comment is really one of the greatest ways to reward
Michael Palmisano:engagement for sure. Yeah. And it was it worked. And so I did this for two reasons. It's one again, I had already filed this appeal. So I'm, I'm committed, at least with this video, because I'm curious. And I feel like I just I just know, I'm right. And I, I feel compelled to see this through. Is that one? Can I actually reboot it? Like, is it even possible to do something like that? To make up lost ground from the ground that they they took for me? And to how much support Do I really have for this? And that's an that's the that's the question that I really needed answered. Because while I find it incredibly unlikely that this would make it to court, or anything like that, because I'm so small, and they're so big. If for some reason, the crazy thing happened, where that was the case, I wanted to know if I actually had people behind me, because the only the only thing that I would have in my corner would be people, you know. And so it because so if this were to happen, the only thing that I would have for my defense would be to make this case public, and ask for support from people. And so and so the answer to that is undeniably, absolutely. So so. So it was like it was like a two part test to see, you know, do people care? And is it possible?
Thom Pollard:Amazing, and you nailed it. And it's a good video, by the way. And if anybody's interested in what gray rock bands open concerts with, are the best, you know, there's, there's probably limit, you can probably do a new one every Okay, phase.
Michael Palmisano:Now I'm going to do if this goes off appeal, and I'm in the clear, I'm going to do closers, I'm going to do a bunch of different ones. But I'm not going to do appeals on multiple videos at the same time, because I only want to risk one strike at a time.
Thom Pollard:Yeah. And you're gonna have to find some attorney or just represent yourself but somebody in the
Michael Palmisano:world of copyright because somebody will somebody will step up and help. Yeah,
Thom Pollard:like do this pro bono or just say, Look, we're gonna make history with this case. This one, they're going to be studying this one at Harvard Law School in five years, like, poster child for failure. But you know,
Michael Palmisano:this, you know, I hope not but But if all that happens, and it goes down in flames, I'll just write a book about it. I'll be okay. I might write a book anyway.
Thom Pollard:Should you should? Well, so Michael, that that's really cool. I love that idea of rebooting an algorithm because most people don't really understand it. And even those who understand it probably are sit back in amazement at it, but
Michael Palmisano:Well, you got it, you got to test stuff. I mean, I can't stress this enough that even I say all of us that do this for a living, we know each other, we talk to each other when, you know, you got to remember that, that there's a lot of noise out there. There's very, very few people that actually make a living doing this and whatever their genre is. And when we talk to each other, we're all talking about how we're experimenting, because no one knows it changes all the time. It's so new I can't stress to everyone out there, how new it is and how much is not figured out and how much is only going to get figured out by the push and pull from all the sides. Yeah,
Thom Pollard:that's really fascinating you know, as I had said earlier, I'm fascinated by YouTube stardom one because usually the people who are stars are doing something pretty cool. Yeah, but videos that I'm not even interested in. And and I watched one some kid he's got like 120,000 subscribers, but he basically tries to guess thing so Oh, like I'm gonna guess what you do for your career. Right. And there was a there was a cat Meo in it. And I don't think he thought people would know but I knew it was this his cameo was this girl named Shelby church who has 1.7 million subscribers. And she's totally chill this really cool kid who I think started out doing like makeup or fashion and now she big time. Right and, and I was like, Whoa, so he gets a kami little bomb from the big guys. And it's it is it's this community that and I and I follow you as a as a friend. But you know, starting as a fan and, and I know you guys communicate, I see you at, you know, John Oates concert with you know, with Guthrie, who is just a freak of nature in the most beautiful way, who by the way doesn't monetize his YouTube channel. That's pretty badass. Right there. And that's cachet, I think, honestly, is so.
Michael Palmisano:So on that note, I so I love I was literally just texting with Guthrie yesterday, he just gotten to the Bahamas. He he I love people like him. I love the Nashville crew that have kind of gotten into YouTube. Because they all they're all the same. They're all they're such my people, they don't edit their videos, you kind of get with it, whether it's Tom book of ACC or, or Jack Roush or some of the others, like they, they are straight ahead iPhone in the room. And they're just, they're just like, listen, we're out here doing it for a living, you know, the people that make all the fancy videos and do all the fancy stuff where it doesn't quite line up. You know, they, you know, they can do that for a living, but you can come find us, you know, on stage and I just I love their whole vibe because of that. I dig in. So so of course he of course he doesn't monetize his videos. God bless.
Thom Pollard:Hey, so So Michael to the let's, let's put a bow on this a little bit, a couple of questions and then go, you can go warm up.
Michael Palmisano:I got tons of time for you, my friend, you,
Thom Pollard:brother, I love it. Um, inspiration? In you know, you are you are a guy who is inspired and creative. And have you have to, like all of us. And most of the people listening to this episode have to continue to produce quality goods or content. So how do you? How do you stay inspired through the thick times and the thin times? You know, what is there anything that you look to, that kind of keeps should go in?
Michael Palmisano:You know, it's really, really difficult because there's the there's two different voices, right? It's the yin and the yang, there's the there's the what you allow in from the outside and what needs to come out from the inside. And in such a busy world, especially with me with everything I have going on and a very large family and lots of moving parts. It's it's very easy to just let something let the stuff in from the outside and react to that. So what do people want me to do? What? What you know, blank, blank, blank, blank? What's hard to do? But because that's not sustainable over time, easily what's hard to do is to listen to the inner voice and say, Okay, what do I need to do? You know, what, what mindset do I need to work on getting to every day where I know, I can do this for the next 510 15 years? Right? And that's a very, very hard thing to do. And honestly, I feel like intrinsically, I know, I have a very good barometer of when I'm, you know, operating off my intuition. And when I'm operating off of, you know, what everybody else expects of me. I can, I can feel when I'm going too far to one side and too far to the other. I'm pretty good at that. But for the most part, what keeps me going, and I maybe we talked about this on the previous episode, is that when I started, I thought that I was doing this for other people. And that made me feel good about myself, but but it was all about what can I create for other people? And that's kind of what you were asking. And as I've gone through this, I realize, like I spoke before, that what you're really doing is inspiring and motivating other people. But what happens is that bigger that that gets, the more that community that mass people like yourselves, motivate and inspire me to continue to get better to continue to listen to that inside voice So it's almost like, it's almost like, when I see it work for, for everyone out there, it makes me believe that I'm over and over again that I'm still doing the right thing and that it's okay for me to can to listen to this and to keep working on this. So it's a real, it's a, it seems so obvious and basic, but it's just true. Like, I feel like I create everything for other people. But when it works for them, it just makes me want to do more like, it's really about you guys pushing me. It's so this my own accountability. That's, that's what it is. And I see a lot of correlation to that. I meant mentioned it before, like mentioning like peloton instructors in the fitness world, I actually model a great deal of what I do, not from other musicians and other music educators, it's from people from the fitness world, because it's so on display. You see somebody sweating their butt off, they always have to do it live. You know, and they have to talk their way through it. And, and, and keep people interested and also motivated, shout out their names while they're doing it. And they have to do it day in day out months over years and set these short term goals overcome adversity in real time. Those are the people that I look up to, as far as you know, where is my beacon kind of going forward? Like those are the people it comes from the fitness world.
Thom Pollard:So your kit, what's what's your kit, like? If you somebody said, All right, you're you're packing a bag, and it can be a big bag, but let's just say you got to throw something over your shoulder and you're gonna be gone for two weeks, but you gotta keep working. What goes in it? Let's let's break that down. Without going into too much minutia. But, but you just held up a journal, and you showed your guitars in the background? Probably a pen and what, like, what do you need? What goes in your
Michael Palmisano:bag? All right, so I just got back from a trip to Florida. So this is a really easy one because my wife and my kids all brought like, you know, huge bags full of tons of stuff. And I basically brought a backpack. I am it might not look like it from this room. Because a lot of these a lot of these guitars are our you know, they're not mine. They're loners, and their gifts and things like that. But I'm a serial minimalist. I mean, I I'm one of those guys that you know it the reason you see my shirts not changed too much on cameras, because I don't have many shirts. You know, like I don't? I don't, I don't buy stuff ever. I basically buy food and gasoline. I don't buy any consumer products. I really don't buy gear. I'm just I really don't buy stuff. It's so yeah. So to answer your question, I would bring my laptop, I would bring my charger, I would bring my ethnic connect cable, hoping that I could find if I stayed in a hotel, wherever it was that I can actually plug in directly and not rely on Wi Fi. I would bring probably depending on far was going probably just this my iPhone, I'd bring my stand, I bring it depending on where I go. I usually don't travel with a guitar, believe it or not. I used to but I I'm one of those people that believes in taking breaks from things. And so I generally don't travel with my guitar. So if I was going somewhere for two weeks, like I just took my kids to spring break. I'll make you know, I'll make videos and stockpile them and upload them at my house and then release them as I'm away. You know, I won't. Yeah. So so that's what I do. And then I bring you know, toothbrush deodorant, bathing suit, flip flops, sunscreen.
Thom Pollard:That's a good list.
Michael Palmisano:I mean, I mean, very, very little. I mean, it's, it's, I really have like no stuff. Like I really, I really don't. And I'll bring a couple books. I'll bring a notepad and a journal a big list guy, I write down all my thoughts to keep it organized. But yeah, I don't you know, I really don't have much of anything.
Thom Pollard:That's cool. So without putting you on the spot, or is there a book you're reading right now? Then or or that you just read that might be of interest?
Michael Palmisano:So what do I have on the floor right now? I mentioned Malcolm Gladwell before. It's the tipping point if you haven't read that, which is an incredible book, and one of my subscribers sent me this this book called Mastery keys to success by George Leonard. I don't know I haven't gotten into that. So I'm halfway through Bill kreutzmann book deal is story with the Grateful Dead. And the other one that I have close, which was which was a gift for, was it Christmas or something very recent. Now is my birthday from my wife and I love this is she made a picture book, and everybody listening can't see this. But she made a picture book that attaches to a poem that's called the future can wait by Jess Oryx, and I'll show this to you. And, and basically, it's this poem about how you know there's a life in the in the future when all of the craziness that's going on right now will be what you miss and so it's a picture of each one is like all the kids crying, you know, all the disasters in the middle of the night. You know, my kid like naked at my piano all the all the pictures with Santa were no ones were like broken glass and spilled milk. And like every every ruined family event when they're covered with mud and they're wearing their, their nice clothes and they don't listen, and it's all of the imperfect pictures. And it's all about this poem about how there's going to be a time, you know, when life isn't so busy, and those are going to be the things you remember, not all the perfect things on the wall.
Thom Pollard:You can find Michael Palmisano on his growing YouTube channel called Michael Palmisano, or look him up under guitar gate. Both will lead you to Rome where you can meet his other 380,000 active followers. You can even join a discord community if you want to chat about it. 24/7 His website is guitar gate.com Thanks for visiting tools for nomads and up close and insightful look into the lives and habits of passionate and creatively prolific professionals like Michael Palmisano, who embrace and cherish the nomadic lifestyle. Be sure to subscribe, like and comment wherever you're listening tools for nomads is brought to you by top drawer. A top drawer nomadism isn't simply about being on the move. It's about loving and living life with the things we carry directly impact our productivity, our well being, and even our identity. Top drawer combines the quality and craftsmanship of our grandparents generation with the drive for independence, function and stylish sustainability. It all results in a collection of tools curated from around the world that helps you do your best work wherever you may be. Visit top drawer shop.com or visit one of their dozen plus meticulously curated shops in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Boston Berkeley, Chicago and Tokyo. Top drawer shop.com Thanks for visiting on Thom Pollard. See you next time on tools for nomads.