I think what really ignited my interest in revolutionary politics particularly like Latin American socialism, and that kind of history was seen how conservative a lot of my friends weren't a lot of their parents were and also how particularly Cuban folks in Miami really sort of stepped into their privilege without really questioning why it was that they were sort of cherished immigrants and a black folks from Haiti weren't and those things I think really started to provide the fuel that to this day pushes me to always advocate.
Thom Pollard:following is a conversation with Andrew Santa Lucia, a Cuban American architect, activist, punk rocker and writer based in Portland, Oregon. He's an assistant professor of practice at Portland State University's School of Architecture, where he coordinates thesis research as well as teaches architectural theory and design. I'm Thom Pollard on tools for nomads we meet creative passionate professionals, nomads, driven by their passion for excellence and success. Wherever you're listening, please be sure to subscribe, give a rating and a review. The YouTube version of this interview will be on our YouTube page in a week's time. Please find us there as well and subscribe and let us know what you think. Architect punk rocker revolutionary activist and Assistant Professor of Practice at Portland State University School of Architecture, Andrew Santa Lucia teaches design studio history theory criticism seminars, and as a graduate thesis coordinator, born and raised in Miami, Florida, my conversation with Andrew was not even remotely what I might have expected. How could I have expected anything I guess when entering into a free form conversation with a self proclaimed revolutionary punk rocking architect, who has among his many creations and accomplishments developed safe spaces for drug users. What I learned is that Andrew is a kind and generous human being who values all living human beings. And his work and expression says that Andrew's writing is found in a broad range of media such as architects, newspaper, art Lurker and luxury home quarterly. He runs office andorre us, which provides design services to community activists, with the goal of influencing public policy through the architectural discipline, most evident in their project safe shape, a mock safe injection facility traveling exhibit. Andrews work is a collaboration of bold colors, graphics and shapes used to translate and amplify contemporary issues of social justice through aesthetics. Here's my conversation with Andrew, Santa Lucia, in Portland, Oregon. I've got us I've just got to ask you about the punk that the music tour, like you had a love of just rocking hard. Where did that come from? How did that start? Where your parents shocked? Or were they did they feed it to you? I mean, how? Seriously, that's cool. Yeah.
Andrew Santa Lucia:And, and let me this is my favorite part. You know, this is technically the first podcast I've done. But I've obviously been consuming podcasts for a very long time and continue to work. Let me take a step back. A little bit about my background, because I feel like there's no way to understand the story without understanding my background. So I was born in 1985 in Miami. I am I'm Cuban. And also have Sicilian. And so I think there are a lot of things that define me. And a lot of things that define perhaps a story. Perhaps most notably, the fact that in the late 80s, my my dad was sentenced to 17 years in federal prison. And so I'm the child of an incarcerated person. I grew up working class in a single parent household, in multigenerational Cuban households in Miami. And for the early part of my life, right, there was an element of having to navigate that having to navigate, obviously, the justice system or the injustice system in the United States. And also having to see like my my working class mother was an immigrant that came in the 1960s to the United States sort of engaged that. So there's certainly a big element of that piece of the puzzle. Another part of that piece of the puzzle. And this is kind of like riffing a little bit on, on the on that comedian Ricky Gervais who talks about how the church was the other parent in the equation for him growing up, he opens, it also happens to be an atheist, right, just like myself. And so, you know, 12 years of Catholic school from a very early age, but happily being in that world until not right. And at some point in high school, you know, my brother and I were like, inset were inseparable as kids. And we're only a few years apart, like two and a half years apart, but we always kind of knew we wanted to play music. And we certainly listened to like heavy stuff. But I wouldn't say was underground. And it wasn't until high school, right around the year 2000, where I get introduced to, you know, real underground music, not like the soundtrack of Tony Hawk Pro Skater, which is a great soundtrack. By the way. You know, we've had a lot of incredible punk bands and bands that I still love today, like bad religion, and things like that. But it wasn't until the early 2000s, where I, in earnest started my sort of journey in punk and alternative music, and activism and alternative lifestyles, etc. And, you know, in Miami, one thing to know about Miami, is very different than most United States cities. In fact, it absolutely does not feel like you're in the United States. And I think that's one of the best things about Miami, I have a lot of criticisms about the state of Florida in general, and also about Miami in general. But that has to be one of the most amazing parts about it. Specifically, the fact that it does feel like you're living in a sort of, in a sort of exclave of Latin America. And it really is a sort of conglomerate of several Latin American countries, right? There's 33 countries in Latin America, even though there are dominant demographics of folks, like Cubans, for example, in Miami, right? There, there every single country in Latin America, and also Europe, and also the global South, and also Asia, and also the Middle East is represented there. So I felt very lucky to grow up somewhere where 70% of folks were not, you know, white Americans, right? I actually thought that that's the way the world operated, until I moved to Chicago, in 2010. And I still I traveled a lot between those years, where I started being a punk went to college, found architecture, in college, and spent, you know, sort of many years having these two lives, that was like this punk life and this academic life. And, you know, probably more on that, but I, at the end of the day, the big thing for me, and one of the criticisms that I would get from folks on both sides of both parts of my lives, where I'm not sure if you are merging both of those lives, as well as you could be, I always used to get a little upset about that. But I can tell you now at 37 I'm a parent, you know, I'm a full, a full time professor at a public university, but also still kind of daily trying to sort of advocate for, for revolution and advocate for, for folks that are sort of constantly being oppressed, and also being oppressed by things that that I do like architecture. So there's a lot there, obviously, to unpack, but it's definitely a passion project for me trying to, to be myself and all the ways that I am as as much as possible.
Thom Pollard:So did you have you been to Cuba? Did you gone there to visit relatives?
Andrew Santa Lucia:Oh, it's on the docket? on the docket, but eventually, I think it'll happen, you know, there, you know, it's, it's funny, because, and maybe just a quick part about like, I'm Cuban, but I wouldn't say I'm a very good American Cuban. Because, you know, I can't think of a more kind of, of a sort of conservative Latin American populace than Cuban Americans. And that's just not me. And now there was my family, as well. My, my family, like a lot of folks supported the Cuban revolution. They, you know, they left for their own personal reasons. But this sort of tendency to support like some really kind of atrocious policies against Cuba, particularly to the Cuban embargo, which is basically human rights abuse. That's something that my family never really was about. And so, you know, myself being I consider myself, the way I like to tell people is that I am a communist in the street and anarchists and machines. So it's kind of this this engagement that for me, like, activism really opened my mind and also, my life to other perspectives, particularly of other Latin American countries, were truly truly beautiful revolutionary histories were much more celebrated than, than in Cuba. So I haven't been there yet. But I'm very excited to eventually go and take my kid and obviously, my wife to we're very excited eventually.
Thom Pollard:So that's cool. And I, boy, I'd love to be there with you. So, you know, because I love seeing other people do things like that, that, that would be something else to experience it and watch it through your eyes, and your children's too. So, Andrew, do you have a memory of what might have ignited that idea of, of revolution of protest of injustice?
Andrew Santa Lucia:Wow, um, you know, I think from a very early age, my mom, in her own way, was absolutely integral in that. You know, my mom, obviously, went a little bit like, kind of, over and above what, like something like a Catholic church might suggest around charity, and instead, um, you know, really suggest on, on how to engage in mutual aid, which we didn't call it, obviously that back then. But I think growing up around her was really important on that end, because she's incredibly empathetic, and, and so on. On that end, I think from a very early age, I always kind of bought into the more revolutionary side of whatever my upbringing was, it wasn't conservative, right? If I have to say what was like sort of my awakening, it's probably like, mid High School, and then obviously, out of high school, but like, um, you know, late 90s, obviously, WTO, Seattle, FTA, Miami, 2003. That is really the height of my introduction into underground music and Punk in Miami, and, you know, I'm watching I mean, this is obviously college starts for me, doesn't three. So I start getting educated a bit on the kind of history of the world and also the history, you know, US imperialism and all parts of, of the world, and particularly in America, and, you know, it all kind of coincides. Right. And, you know, you see police violence, right, you see, particularly police violence against black and brown people in the United States, right. You know, you see, obviously, poverty sort of ramping, and particularly that point in Miami, you know, the sort of typical, like, the neoliberalism of the 80s, obviously, stretched into the 90s, and continued very much to this day. And so it wasn't affordable, even back then. So there was a lot of that part of it. I think, what really ignited though my sort of interest in revolutionary politics, particularly like, Latin American socialism, and that kind of history was seen how conservative a lot of my friends weren't a lot of their parents were and also how a lot of folks, particularly Cuban folks in Miami, you know, really sort of stepped into their privilege without really questioning why it was that they were sort of cherished immigrants and a black folks from Haiti warrant, right. And those things, I think, really started to provide the fuel that to this day, really kind of, you know, pushes me to, you know, continue to always advocate, you know, but at the same time, I'm also like, questioning myself publicly and also my own premise publicly. So I can at least give folks like a I don't know maybe perhaps like a vehicle for them to like, get into a kind of revolutionary spirit, but But again, it's also very much about the music. And, you know, this is this is my first podcast would be a terrible thing not to talk about later in the 2000s, probably around 2008 2009 sort of got reacquainted with a band that probably Nobody considers revolutionary, but is easily perhaps the most revolutionary band, or one of the most registered fans of all time, which is Chumbawamba. A lot of people remember them as a sort of one hit wonder. And they were the they were anarchists punk band from the early 1980s. In the UK, they ran ran in the same crowd as bands like crash and conflict and, and they were peace pumping, you know. And that message, they had this message, even that song that's very popular, right, theatricality was big performance was big, but it was trying to create a cultural vehicle for people to like, accept revolutionary ideas. And I think that's a big part of what I try to do with my work. My work is very bold, colorful, you probably have seen some of it, and I tried to make it easy for not only for people to like sort of agree with it, or to enjoy it. But I also try to impregnated with with elements of, of social critique of revelatory politics of, you know, anti capitalism, anti fascism, anti racism. So, um, that's a lot about, like, the work part. I don't know if it's transitioning to that in the podcast or not. But like that, for me, in this kind of conversation makes a lot of sense. Yeah,
Thom Pollard:that's really beautiful. And the the thing is, is there's I have, I'm just really curious to find how how an individual evolves and finds the person that he or she is meant to become. And ultimately, what people who are truly curious individuals do is they follow the things that interest them, and then they they spend time with other people. Did you hear this? Or did you see that? And that's how we do things. And then suddenly, you're like me, and you're 60 years old, and some kid reaches out who's 23 years old on Instagram and says, I've been following you for years. Can I talk to you? And it's like, was it fully? Yes, of course, I always say yes, but, but the idea is that you continue to seek out information and knowledge and hopefully it turns into wisdom, and your work begins to speak. Right? And so, for you in a punk band, you create a mood you set a stage with what the kind of chords you play, are the kind of vocals are words in your, in your songs, and how loud it is, or how sharp are hard. Is it a minor key? Is it a major key? Do you do different intonations and, and then architecture is the same thing, except you're creating something by space, or the ways something is built. And I'm fascinated by that. Because you say you use bold colors and, and they're, you know, graphics and shapes and things. So honestly, I couldn't even I guess I know how to what room I know when I like a room when I walk into it. But I don't always know how to create that vibe. So how do you do that? And how did you learn it? So did you go to college ultimately, to say, I'm going to be an architect or I'm going to, or I'm going to learn how to play a few more instruments and be a musician, you know?
Andrew Santa Lucia:College, right? Yeah, you know, I was I was getting out of high school in early 2000. I started high school in late 90s. And finishing early 2007. Three, I graduated. And there was never a question that I was gonna go to college, which is really weird, because I was I was the first person in my family to go to college. And but there was like, never a question, you know, and I understand that now. Right? I did, regardless of I did go to private school my entire life. You know, my mom, that was like, something she decided to do. Because she was like, well, this kids have it pretty hard. So let's, like, you know, I never understood that, you know, I never understood until now, of course, right. As I literally enrolled my child into school for for the fall, right? I just didn't know what I wanted to do. I remember reading my senior year. I kind of was like, maybe, I remember thinking, I think I remember like some sciences like I was like maybe botany or something. And, you know, I got early acceptance at Florida International University, which is one of the third largest public institutions, public universities in Miami. And of course, in Miami, you have University of Miami, which is the famed private school. And then of course, suntan University, as they used to call them in the 1980s. And then, and that the summer before, I had to basically like, apply to the School of Architecture. And it was I don't know if it was like, I don't remember if it was like a heart application. But I had to and I just put in my application. I got a I got a letter, like right at the end of high school that said I was on a waitlist and I didn't get in and I was like, I I didn't think twice about it, I was kind of like, I'm not sure what this means, like, I'll just go to college and then we'll see what happens. And then on my birthday, we're in the middle of band practice, actually. And my aunt calls me downstairs and she's like, You got a letter from FIU School of Architecture. And it said, I got in and on my birthday, my on my 18th birthday. Wow. And I remember looking at that letter for it. That's the one that felt the most like that college acceptance letter, like I was already accepted to college. But that letter, I remember sitting down looking at it being like, Oh, I think this is important. And I made my aunt drive me in rush hour traffic, 45 minutes to like, give it to the office. I couldn't waited a couple of days. But I can Mater drive me to the school of architecture is my first time going down and seeing where I would study for the next seven years, right
Thom Pollard:on the spot. So bad. Is over. So guys, sorry, we'll see you tomorrow, or Yeah,
Andrew Santa Lucia:exactly. The bank bad practice was definitely over. And I went
Thom Pollard:and gonna be an architect.
Andrew Santa Lucia:I know, boy, here we go. From that point on. I feel like I got really lucky now that I mean, I'm the Graduate Admissions coordinator at my particular school right now, traditional architecture was handed off, right? You probably maybe in high school, there was a drafting class, right. And so the trade of drafting in the United States was a major thing. Not so much anymore. But now there's a kind of different problem I will not get into. But in terms of 1989 2003, like that era of me going to high school, and then graduating and starting architecture 20,003 The computer was already ubiquitous by that point. It was like immediate, you know, like, we got to school, and they were like, Hey, you're probably going to need to get a laptop. And I'm like, Are you kidding? Like, we can't afford a laptop, you know, hey, I was very lucky that my aunt worked at one of those major, kind of like, office supply stores, and was able to heavily discount a laptop for me. And, you know, from day one, I remember thinking like, Yeah, we're gonna just, we're gonna make a house for plants, right? And we showed up day one. And they were like, you're gonna be in your own studios. And we're like, we have our own studios access 24 hours a day, we're talking about, like, these are working class, like literally working class, some middle class students never had a third space other than their house or their school, right? That is just there. And that's a cornerstone of architecture, education and art, of course, right studio space. And they're like, this is yours. And we're like, what, and then on each of our desks, there was this black piece of, of sheer fabric that was kind of rigid. And there was like a paper next to it that said, you have to do these actions to this. And I'm like, what, what is going on here? It, it ended up turning. It's basically a form driven exercise that was like, supposed to make you not think about a house. It was it makes it makes you think about objects and forms. From that point on. I mean, you know, I just I lived and breathed it. I lived and breathed it because it was so radically different. Most of our faculty were coming out of places like Columbia University, which in the 90s was the one that integrated the computer the most. And they famously had the studios in the 90s, called the paperless studios. So that was all on computers. It was all on on sort of these giant desktops, right back in the day that could actually like do computing processing in the mid 90s. And those were my professors. So yeah, it's very exciting is a very exciting time. It was really, like now I teach. I teach architecture, which, you know, it's one of my passion. So I'm in the midst of architecture course right now I taught Yes. And I try to explain that history to students a lot, because architecture really changed during those years.
Thom Pollard:You're listening to my conversation with architect, punk rocker revolutionary activist and Assistant Professor of Practice at Portland State University's School of Architecture. Andrew, Santa Lucia. Tools for nomads is brought to you by top drawer top drawers mission is to make durable, sustainable tools for creatives who work to make the world better. I fell in love with the top drawer brand when they invited me to do a presentation for them at their annual meeting in Boston, Massachusetts in 2017. I've never looked back. Top drawer makes tools for travel, writing accessories for everyday carry. They design and make and meticulously curate tools for travel and work. like travel bags and backpacks, Japanese house shoes, journals, amazing photo albums, finely crafted paper readers sunglasses handkerchiefs, check them out at top drawer shop.com, or visit one of their dozen plus meticulously outfitted shops in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Boston, Berkeley, Chicago, and Tokyo. Top draw shop.com.
Andrew Santa Lucia:architecture in general has a problem. And the problem is that they look at everyone as a client. Right? Because architecture is effective, a very effective tool of capitalism, it's a very effective tool, by the way of settler colonialism to like, without architecture, there's no way to colonize the United States architecture literally, after you killed, you know, the Native Americans, then you put buildings on where they lived, right? And so architecture is always the second line of defense is the offense really, in terms of something like settler colonialism? And capitalism, right? So what I always tell folks is, number one, you can't necessarily just be always with this kind of like business mindset, right? It's all about clients and stuff, right? Instead, I think it's very important for for all of us, not just architects to you know, immerse ourselves in the communities in the worlds that we want to be a part of right. Now, if ultimately, someone doesn't want to be a part of that community, maybe they don't necessarily want to, like, do as much good as they think they want to do for that community. And being a part of the community doesn't mean going in appropriating their culture, right, being a part of that community is being a an not only an ally, but an accomplice and also a comrade, right. And that might look like being able to bring whatever it is that you do well, or whatever it is that you you can bring, whether it's whether it's funding, right, if you have a lot of money, or whether it's, you know, your tools, if you have a lot of tools, you know, bringing into the space and be like, you know, I'm I'm here if you need me, and I'm and I'm also here if you don't need and I think stepping into architecture that way for myself. I had that I had that kind of dual life in the mid 2000s, late 2000s as an activist and an architect, and the clothes the first real project that I think we we did, that kind of brought both of those worlds together for me, was right around 2006, I was working very closely with some awesome socialist anarchist groups, in college and in Miami. And we were all working around housing insecurity, and particularly houseless. We didn't really call it houses like that, we just call it homelessness. Now, and importantly, we call it house lessness. Because a home could be many things, but houses is the kind of physical structure right? Home could be a place home could be people, right? And so we work very closely with you Mojo village, your motor village was an autonomous collective of, of homeless folks in Miami, mostly black, that decided to squat on a piece of land in Liberty City, and Liberty City was one of the first incorporated cities in the United States. And the poor can be in housing projects. Were the first like housing projects for particularly black folks. During the Jim Crow era. We activists, as well as houseless activists, basically helped to set up a village, a squat village. And we would we would basically just go and listen, you know, we would basically go and listen, we were young, we're in our undergrad years, we decided that it wasn't enough for us to do that. So we did was quietly overnight. One night, we all went back to campus. And we constructed a shanty in the middle of campus and squatted in the for an entire couple of weeks, we were able to you know, basically in that drive, you know, we were able to get the library set up at the module village, we had, you know, it was my first time getting interviewed by by, by us, you know, and it was certainly amazing, but it could not have been done without, without a lot of help. The cool thing was, it was the first time that I realized that I kind of needed architects at that point. And it was really great to be able to like take, like scrap models and a bunch of stuff from the School of Architecture in the middle of the night and just build it. That was that was really like I think one of the first times where I was like, You know what, I this seems the this is the right path. It would be a few more years before I would find other vehicles, but that one was like a great Great start.
Thom Pollard:Yeah, you know, it's interesting. And I certainly hope I don't jinx the possibility of getting this guy on the podcast, but actually reached out to an architect in Miami. He's a Chicago born guy by the name of Jermaine box.
Andrew Santa Lucia:And you're one of my closest friends.
Thom Pollard:Oh my gosh, okay, so maybe I didn't jinx it,
Andrew Santa Lucia:but I might have been I did not jinx it, you will remain. Oh my gosh, we left. He's from Chicago. I'm from Miami, we literally left the same year. And cross we become friends too later.
Thom Pollard:Well, well, so So just for the listener or the viewer. So the how I found your main Barnes was this fascinating talk that he did down in Miami called the agency of architecture. And essentially, he talked about how how architecture in a city can be created to exclude certain cultures or, or, if you will, the black and brown communities, which is what he was talking about. And he just comes in as this. Here's this architect who just, if he couldn't get an answer from someone, he didn't wait around to get it. He's like, who owns that wall over there. Nobody knows, while we're painting it, and we'll just wait, you know, when he created this park and talked about all the people who came into this park to help create this space that was inclusive, and I was just so endlessly fascinated with his work and his life's work. And he speaks about it with such humor and humility. Without me going on a digression here, this, that's what you're talking about how architecture can be a weapon? To right,
Andrew Santa Lucia:what's your, you know, that's, that's, that actually is an astute point, right? Architecture is has always been a weapon, or really terrible. And so part of the work that we're trying to do is, and this is maybe the little edge, bringing in the kind of, you know, critical edge into it. But I do want it to be a weapon against white supremacy, I do want it to be a weapon against, you know, fucking Nazi pieces of shit, you know, like, I want it, I want it to be inclusive. Right. But at the same time, you know, I don't want it to lose its edge. So there's that.
Thom Pollard:So in terms of your work, Andrew, so are you. You talked about the importance of a laptop? What are what are some of the other things that you have to have at least to be productive and creative? And can you can you work just as efficiently in a cafe or in a closet? Or, you know, or do you
Andrew Santa Lucia:need a great? That's a great question. You know, I'm, I've had a very weird relationship with work for a long time, I always joke that I'm, I feel like a terrible work. I'm like, the main, a big communist, but a terrible worker. But it's not that I think it's because I, I, I Generalized Anxiety Disorder, you know, I take antidepressants. And I think for a very long time, I had a lot of weird, creative anxiety. And it would always force me to kind of work in ways that didn't make me comfortable, but I always would hit what I needed to hit, you know, like, all the goals that you need to hit over the last year. I've been on great meds. And I've produced a couple of projects that, I think now show me my next, my next phase, and I'm able to sit down for a few hours and just turn it out and not feel bad. So in terms of like, the space of production, traditionally, right? I was a hustler. So I didn't really have an office. So it was really like working at coffee shops, or, you know, I would teach part time at schools like in Chicago, and I work wherever I could, I didn't really like working at home, I didn't have a great setup at work at home. So where I am now, in terms of where I like to work, right, the pandemic shifted it because I do I did like to work at coffee shops. And I did like to just be out and about, you know, but I have some nice places to work now in my home. And my wife and I have tried to develop because of the pandemic better work from home setups, and we have better work from home setup. So happy to do it there. But I have my office in school now. And it's I'm very, I'm very grateful to have had an office for the last six years. And you know, that office is it's really a kind of a monument to all the creative anxiety of the past and also hopefully the little less creative anxiety with the future. In terms of tools. I think it really depends on what I'm doing right? I draw every day, in a way in some form or another. Not as much as I would like to but I always I do draw by hand. And so over the last 15 years, I've had iPads but you know, sometimes I originally like maybe 12 years ago, I had the iPad I used it a lot. It was very bad for drawing now they're very good
Thom Pollard:for drawing. Man made a lot of progress
Andrew Santa Lucia:March of last Last year of 21, I decided to go in and get myself a new iPad. But I also am very fast with 3d modeling tools. I use a tool called Rhino. Rhinoceros, right. Rhino is a tool that architects love, however, comes from the world of, of designed objects. Rhino is a very straightforward program with a lot of accuracy. And I think if I can hammer home one thing about architecture, maybe people figured this out already, some of them, maybe your listeners do it. I think what sets architecture apart from art is this very specific interest in accuracy. And reality, not reality, like, you know, you know, like a very conventional or ugly or bad reality, but reality in the sense of like, I can give you a document and know that if you follow it, like the people like the contractors outside of my house right now, right, like, they can follow it. But in terms of design, that's my those are my main tools. I use, obviously, the whole suite of Adobe as well, for me, illustrator is the most one of the most powerful kinds of drawing software's are, yes, drawing software's, and illustrating software's. And it wasn't until I started using, you know, about 1213 years ago, I think my architecture got better. Because Illustrator is about lines. That's like, its main, one of its main things, right? Photoshop is about images, right? It's about photo editing, it's and I love and I'm, I'm an expert at all of them. But in terms of Illustrator, that's when I think a lot of it's where a lot of my stuff comes to life, I really love comics. And so I also produce I've, throughout the years, I've used comics as a form of representation for architecture. And so I would say that's like my main kind of main stuff. I also do visualizations as well. So you know, 3d animations and things like that. Now, the thing where my life really has changed, is in the building part of it, you know, I have built a lot of exhibitions throughout the last seven years, eight years. So in terms of my tools, I'm, you know, I'm a Makita guy now, you know, and if I could, if I could be a festival guy, I would be a festival guy, but I don't make festival wages. So, you know, I'm okay with Makita. And like, but my claim to fame is paint. If there's one thing that everyone will talk about me, they'll say two things. One is radical politics, and paint. And so throughout the last few years, I have really tried to perfect the way that I have used to paint in my installations. I generally use MDF, which is a very heavy you know, compound board made of like, you know, wood debris and things like that. But it's kind of like a canvas. On its on. Its on its on its flat factory edge. But on the sides. It's really porous and ugly, and a lot of what I do I stack things. I just did an installation for the Bellevue Art Museum for their biennial of the art architecture, but I know that they didn't 21 And so it's called l&r. It's which is short for an altar to Anti Fascist architecture. And it's fun. I had so much fun, you know, doing all this work.
Thom Pollard:You can find Andrew Santa Lucia's work on Office and or us at the website a n d dash O r.us. When my conversation with Andrew is available on YouTube, I'll update the notes. Thanks for visiting tools for nomads and up close and insightful look into the lives and habits of passionate and creatively prolific professionals like Andrew, Santa Lucia, who embrace and cherish the nomadic lifestyle. Be sure to subscribe, like and comment wherever you're listening tools for nomads is brought to you by top drawer at top drawer nomadism isn't simply about being on the move. It's about loving and living life where the things we carry directly impact our productivity, our well being and even our identity. Top tour combines the quality and craftsmanship of our grandparents generation with the drive for independence, function and stylish sustainability. It all results in a collection of tools curated from around the world that help you do your best work wherever you may be. Visit top drawer shop.com or visit one of their dozen plus meticulously outfitted shops in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Boston, Berkeley, Chicago and Tokyo. Top door shop.com Thanks for Visiting I'm Thom Pollard we'll see you next time on tools for nomads