John Branch, NY Times Sports Writer Doesn't Care Who Wins or Loses, & the Tokyo Olympics

I met today’s guest, John Branch,  in 2017. He emailed me asking to interview me about something I witnessed on Mount Everest the previous year. 

John Branch wanted to hear my story about having crossed paths with three men who lost their lives close to the summit of the mountain. I encountered each one of them in their last moments of life. One can imagine how helpless I felt in knowing there was nothing I could do to save them. 

The upper reaches of Everest is an area known as The Death Zone - where no human can survive for more than a day or two. The Death Zone can suck the life and energy out of even the world’s strongest and most capable athletes. The frozen bodies at Camp 4, at 26,000 feet or 8,000 meters, is proof of that. 

John is a sports writer for the New York Times. Not just any kind of sports writer. He writes about off the beaten track sports, like mountaineering, climbing, skiing….and offbeat sports like wingsuit flying, bowling, even Rubik’s Cube competitions.

John says he’s more interested in the human side of the story than the scoreboard. And, it turns out I knew about John and his work before ever actually spoke on the telephone. Having survived a near deadly avalanche in my home state of New Hampshire, I was riveted by his story called ‘Snow Fall”, about skiers killed in an avalanche in Washington State. The story won John a Pulitzer Prize.

He’s a master at his craft, the best-selling author of Boy On Ice and The Last Cowboys. And he just released a book featuring 20 of his favorite stories from over 2,000 he’s written for the NY Times, called Sidecountry: Tales of Death and Life From the Back Roads of Sports. 

The article he interviewed me for, called Deliverance from 27,000 Feet, is in his new book. It brings up so much emotion for me personally that I can’t say I’ll ever read it again. 

I caught up with John in August of 2021 from his home near San Francisco. He’d just returned from Tokyo, where he was reporting on the Tokyo Olympics. As I said John is no ordinary sports writer. His take on the Olympics and what he experienced there is, well, what makes John Branch so….John Branch. 

Here’s my conversation with John:

Transcript

Thom Pollard: 0:00

This is tools for nomads brought to you by top drawer. As creative professionals we know the nomadic lifestyle is as much a mindset as it is a way of being. Visit top drawer shop.com or visit one of their dozen plus meticulously outfitted shops in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Boston, Berkeley, Chicago, and Tokyo. Top door shop.com. I'm Thom Pollard. I met today's guest john branch in 2017. he emailed me asking to interview me about something I witnessed on Mount Everest the previous year. JOHN branch wanted to hear my story about having crossed paths with three men who lost their lives close to the summit of the mountain, I encountered each one of them in their last moments of life. One can imagine how helpless I felt in knowing there was nothing I could do to save them. The upper reaches of Everest is an area known as the death zone where no human can survive for more than a day or two. The death zone can suck the life and energy out of even the world's strongest and most capable athletes. The frozen bodies at camp for at 26,000 feet or 8000 meters is proof of that. JOHN is a sports writer for The New York Times, not just any kind of sports writer, he writes about off the beaten track sports like mountaineering, climbing, skiing, and offbeat sports like wingsuit flying bowling, even Rubik's Cube competitions. JOHN says he's more interested in the human side of the story than the scoreboard. And it turns out, I knew john and his work before even actually speaking on the telephone, having survived a near deadly avalanche in my home state of New Hampshire. I was riveted by his story called snow fall about skiers killed in an avalanche in Washington State. The story one john a Pulitzer Prize. He's a master at his craft, the best selling author of boy on dice and the last cowboys. And he just released a book featuring 20 of his favorite stories from over 2000 that he's written for the New York Times called side country, tales of death and life from the back roads of sports. The article he interviewed me for called deliverance from 27,000 feet is in his new book, it brings up so much emotion for me personally, that I can't say I'll ever be able to read it again. I caught up with john in August of 2021, from his home near San Francisco. He just returned from Tokyo, where he was reporting on the Tokyo Olympics. As I said, john is no ordinary sports writer. his take on the Olympics and what he experienced there is true john branch, he tells stories about people before sports, about their heartache about their successes, about their wins and their losses in ways that touch every one of us. Here's my conversation with john. So you might could be the busiest man in Well, we're all busy, I suppose. But you've got to be busy. You carved out some time for me on a Friday afternoon. I am I nothing but gratitude. So good to see your face again.

John Branch: 3:42

Same with you always good to see your face. Any more spices, Roman? Yeah, hey,

Thom Pollard: 3:47

we need more smiles in this planet. And that is the plant talking about the planet. you've traveled far and wide. And you just came back from a trip to Tokyo to cover the Olympics, can you? I've been following you I follow you religiously on Instagram, your Instagram story. It should be its own film. I'm suggesting that now just in case if you've just future thoughts, I'll produce it for you. There's no budget. I also wanted to throw that in there. So what a trip to Tokyo covering the 2020 Olympics in the year 2021. What was that? Like?

John Branch: 4:29

Yeah, it was fascinating. I've covered a lot of Olympics. Now. I've been blessed to have done these quite a number of times. I was really, really looking forward to this one because I had gone in 2019 to do some reporting. And I thought this one's going to be lights out. Japan runs things very efficiently. The people are wonderful. The culture is wonderful. And I thought this is going to be one of the great Olympics ever. That was pre pandemic of course. And in hindsight now The takeaway is that I've really felt bad both for Japan, because it couldn't showcase itself in any in any real way. And I felt bad for the athletes who were performing, you know, their their life's work in mostly empty venues, without familiar or friendly faces in the crowd, without family and spouses and supporters. It was lonely and weird, and it felt like dress rehearsals and a lot of ways. So the two people or two groups of people I feel bad for are the athletes and for the people in Japan.

Thom Pollard: 5:35

So how, you know, it really taught the athletes not withstanding, but what about the people of Japan like so what was that was? Was it a spoken thing? Were they saying, we we mourn with our hearts? Or are sad? Or like, How did it feel like what was the visceral feeling of it?

John Branch: 5:56

Yeah, the Olympic movement, you know, the IOC basically decided, if we're going to do this, during this pandemic, we're going to soldier on through this, we're going to do this without trying to impact Japan as much as possible. And so they they really more than any other time I've ever seen, created this semi bubble for the Olympics. And so we really had very little interaction. I did stay in a hotel, in a in a Tokyo neighborhood where I could walk outside, and it felt like real life, everybody is wearing masks, indoors and outdoors, very different than the US, nobody complained about it. But once I got onto a bus or got over to Olympic venues, it was just these quiet, empty arenas, where the Olympians were, and so on. And so those two worlds didn't blend very well. And that was on purpose. I think the people of Japan were nervous about the Olympics. And so to appease that anxiety, the Olympics said, Well, look, we're going to try to really shut off our little festival here, in a little bubble. And, you know, it's just a shame that I had to work that way. But I think most people in Japan, by the time the Olympics started did not want the Olympics there. There are certainly a high level of anxiety as case numbers were rising, and so on, did not want this influx of 10s of 1000s of foreigners. Although I think for the most part, we are high more highly, are more likely to have been vaccinated than the people of Japan were. But I don't blame people for being anxious about it. And so I think most Japanese people kind of stayed away from it. And just let us kind of do our little festival in the side on the side. And it's just a shame because those two things merge together could have been a lot of fun and really fascinating for a lot of people.

Thom Pollard: 7:39

Yeah, absolutely. Because the the other Olympics that you've covered, I can imagine it's like the people are out wearing their colors, not only the fans and the families from other countries, but from the host country. They're like, look at where we live.

John Branch: 7:57

Yeah, it's not just in the venues themselves, which is what you see on NBC, but it's just walking the streets. It's, you know, in Rio, for example, walking down side streets and watching people at little bars and cafes watching this tiny little TV up in the corner, when some Brazilian is going for a medal or something. There's just these little serendipitous moments throughout the Olympics, away from the venues, which are just wonderful. And none of that really existed. It just felt like two separate worlds that were not coexisting in a meaningful way.

Thom Pollard: 8:27

JOHN, so what were some of the the real feel good stories, whether athletes or sports stories, or just Japan and your experience there? What were what were would you say were some of the highlights for you? And I know, that's a broad question. We could go for hours, but you know, like, boom, like, you know, something on the top of your head kinda?

John Branch: 8:48

Well, it's interesting, cuz I never see the NBC coverage. So I have no idea what you folks saw back here in the US. And I was not at track and field. But I think my favorite moment that I did not witness myself was when the two high jumpers basically tied. And they came to realization with the official there that you know, what, if you guys just want to stop here, you both get a gold medal. I mean, how cool How cool was that? The raw emotion of, we'll take this, and now we're best friends for life. There's something you can get drawn into the Olympic spirit with that, right? The sports I mostly covered were surfing, climbing and skateboarding. And all of them had cool little highlights. I think skateboarding was really fun just because the Japanese people, or the Japanese skaters did really well, of the four gold medals. Three of them were won by Japanese skaters. And there's a there's an interesting sort of history with skateboarding in Japan kind of frowned upon in ways that maybe Americans can kind of appreciate but but certainly, I don't think fully understand. You don't see kids skatey on the streets of Japan, because it's just frowned upon that this is deployed. The society is very polite. It's very community oriented, and why would you make noise and bother other people by stating somewhere on the sidewalk. So it's fascinating to me that they seem to have figured out that even with those sort of communal restrictions on a sport like skateboarding, they can still figure out a way to do really, really well. And

Thom Pollard: 10:15

the whole cultural thing, the difference, not just with the United States or North America, but the, you know, the the culture of Japan, you're saying everybody is, you know, they all wear masks, and don't complain about it, you know?

John Branch: 10:33

Yeah. Yeah, it is interesting. It shows itself in a lot of interesting ways to me. And, you know, among them is that everybody's wearing a mask indoors and outdoors. But there are, there's also things like you jump on a subway, and one when you get off the subway, and everybody's piling into the escalator to go upstairs. Everybody gets in a single file line to wait their turn to go up the escalator. When I'm on the subway, and I'm dying of thirst. And I look around, and I realize nobody else on the subway is holding a water bottle. Nobody's drinking out of a water bottle. Nobody has this giant $100 water bottle in their hand that we all seem to carry around everywhere. Nobody has a big, you know, 32 ounce Starbucks cup. It's just not done. There's no trash that you see anywhere. There's no trash cans on the street, because why would you need trash cans on the street? Why would you be carrying something around with you, that's trash that you wouldn't just take home to dispose of. So there's these really interesting cultural things that are just a twist. And when you're there, you think this is all wonderful, and it feels very dignified. and efficient. And certainly Japan has its issues that I think that are below the surface. But as a visitor you get there and think this is what a a dignified future looks like. It all feels very, you know, efficient and technologically savvy and smart. And then just well designed. Not messy the way you know, our society is and a lot of other societies are,

Thom Pollard: 12:05

john so I love can you tell the egg salad sandwich story, please. I love I love, love, love What happened? And I love how you told the story. Just share that. That's beautiful.

John Branch: 12:21

Well, yeah, so you know, part of our quarantine there, we were under quarantine for 14 days, we were not really supposed to go out and about and mingle with people. So we were given basically a 15 minute window where we were allowed to leave our hotels and go find something to eat. And for most of us that meant going to the corner 711 and if you have not been to Tokyo, you might be surprised to know that there was a 711 on every single coin. There's like Starbucks in Manhattan. It's it's 711 and Tokyo. And at the seven elevens and other companies that are like them Lawson's is another convenience store there that you see a lot. They have a lot of fresh food. It's not like hot dogs on the rollers like we're used to at our seven elevens they have sushi and salads and noodle dishes. And so a lot of people take these on their way home from work and that's their quick meal. Like it's kind of take home and either microwave or cold noodles or, or I bought an octopus salad one night. But one of the things that came up was the Lawson which is like a 711 competitor, the egg salad sandwich. And I had forgotten this until somebody mentioned it that Anthony Bourdain the late Anthony Bourdain loved the Lawson egg salad sandwich. And so I decided Yeah, of course I'm gonna try it if Atheneum burning thought it was good enough to to Herald on his TV show and in his writing, then certainly I'm going to try it. And so for like two bucks, you get a egg salad sandwich, and they are just creamy and Ag and messy and delicious. And yeah, I'm not sure I would have thought of doing that. If not for Anthony Bourdain.

Thom Pollard: 14:01

So you so you get the sandwich. And you remember it Anthony Bourdain being like obsessed, not obsessed, but love these. And you found his tweet from? I'm looking at it from November 3 2013.

John Branch: 14:15

Yes, the I think he called it what the unnatural, inexplicable deliciousness of the Lawson's egg salad sandwich. And he's exactly right. I'm not a huge egg salad fan. But if Anthony Bourdain says go try the go try the egg salad sandwich. I'll try the egg salad sandwich from Yeah, from the convenience store.

Thom Pollard: 14:36

Right on when I saw your, your post on your Instagram story. I saw the close up of the egg salad sandwich in its little package. Nice little neat package. And I was like, Oh, I'm not a big salad sandwich guy. And the second you put the quote about Anthony Bourdain. I'm like, I gotta get to Tokyo. Hit a loss and go straight. I will. I'm gonna I'm like, it's all my little So now,

John Branch: 15:01

right? I'm sort of floored I I do kind of half jokingly wonder of Japanese people come to the US and walk into 711. And think, where is all the delicious food? And what, what are these two things rolling around on these rollers? But it's a different experience. It's a different 711 than what we're used to. Yeah, somebody asked me if they have slurpees, at the seven elevens, and somehow, a good reporter would know this and would have checked us out. But I don't honestly know if they absolutely because I never saw the Slurpee machine at the

Thom Pollard: 15:33

64 ounce, big gulp.

John Branch: 15:36

If they did have the Big Gulps, which I don't think they do, they certainly would not carry them around on the streets, and certainly not in the subway. That's all.

Thom Pollard: 15:45

So So john, I want to ask about 1000 of your your stories there. But But you travel a lot. You're a man, who has been to a lot of countries to cover the sports that you cover, not your traditional, mainstream sports, you know, like in a, you know, I speak about this in my introduction to you, but like, how do you do it? Because you're like, like, when you have a pretty cool job. You're a sports writer for The New York Times? And they probably don't, other than saying go to the Olympics. Do you just follow your your intuition or like, what, like, what, what motivates you and what drives you to get out of bed and do it? It's like,

John Branch: 16:28

Yeah, I do have the coolest job in journalism, I think I have to remind myself of that, when I start to complain about it, which I do sometimes. But yeah, I've got the coolest job. And that job is basically just go find cool stories, which is both freeing, but also daunting in a weird way. Because you're, it's almost too big of an expanse to wrap your head around. So I rely on things just to kind of hit me, you know, like, like little asteroids, like, Oh, that's a good story there and look at that thing flying by that's not much to grab on to and in check out. You know, my whole mantra is to try to write stories that are unexpected that our readers don't go looking for, but they stumble across, and somehow gets sucked into and think at the end. I'm so glad I randomly ran into that story, because I would have never searched it out. And so it allows me to think about stories, you know, in the climbing world, or in the world of a lot of these kind of what we might consider secondary sports that the Olympics is filled with. I tried to stress stretch the bounds of what a sports story is, I've written plenty of stories where people have written to me saying, why was that a sports story? You know, why? Why was the cover of the sports page about Rubik's Cubes? Something? I said, Well, I don't really know. But it fascinates me. So maybe it fascinates other people too.

Thom Pollard: 17:53

JOHN you the reason your stories are interesting is because you're they cross all country and cultural boundaries are about people about human beings like who who cry and die or or lose or win against all odds. It's a visitor. These are stories of the soul. And you're bringing us stories that have meaning I'm maybe I'm maybe I'm putting too much you know, kind of, you know, golden circles on this, if you will Olympics, but it's about the soul. It's about people and sports is your conduit.

John Branch: 18:33

Yeah, it's, it's, it's fascinating, because I really don't care who wins or loses. I think I gave up a long time ago really caring about the results of of who wins the gold medal or who wins the Super Bowl. I just want to know what's at the heart of this? What's the bigger cultural context here? What's the tiny little story about the person who won or lost? I remember years ago, I had a colleague of mine who pointed out that I tend to go to the losers locker room that I tend to write about losers more than winners. And I think I think they're right on I think I believe people who have lost are more interesting, generally than people who have won. And I think that now extrapolates as I get older, into people who have suffered, and people in some cases who have died. A lot of stories I do now are about people who literally have died. And it's maybe a little mccobb. But, you know, I think those are more important stories than the scoreboard. And that's that's what draws my interest. And I hope that some people, least a few people see it the same way. I'm thankful that some of my editors see it the same way so they keep publishing them.

Thom Pollard: 19:46

Before I let you go, john, so when you work are you a guy who you open up your laptop? Are you good to go? Or is there a place whether you're at home work like how Where's your How do you Build your little safe place to do your work.

John Branch: 20:03

Yeah, I'm pretty low maintenance. I think it comes from always being out of a laptop bag and going into press boxes when I was a little bit younger and so I'm very adept at working in airport lounges or and airport gates, and coffee shops, and I don't mind noise around me. I don't mind sitting outside. I don't mind people having a conversation near me, generally. I think I'm pretty easy. So give me my phone more and more. But to right, open up a laptop and start going. Yeah, I don't, I don't need a lot. I don't need a lot of space. In fact, I barely need a chair for a lot of stories. Right? Give me a Wi Fi connection. I'm pretty good.

Thom Pollard: 20:42

So when you're on the go, then it does then it almost doesn't even matter your your work the quality or the what it is you're trying to get it as it's not where you're writing from. It's just, it's, you are able to go there in your head and do it no matter what's going on.

John Branch: 21:02

Yeah, I guess I mean, I don't give it a whole lot of thought. But you know, a lot of it's just a matter of you do what you can I mean, I have filed stories from you know, I think probably pretty good stories from sitting on the floor of the airport terminal, or I know I've filed stories from the trunk, standing at the trunk of my car, trying to get a cell signal. Yeah, you just kind of do what you can especially as you roam around the world around the country and I live in the West so I do a lot of stories and I have done a lot of stories are from rural America. You're just kind of fitting in wherever you can make your little workspace and hope you have enough of a signal somehow to get your story to New York.

Thom Pollard: 21:40

What's your thing you know to get you inspired? Are you a breeder mp3 player going all the time? Do you have a some meditative Music Playing or baseball game in the background?

John Branch: 21:53

Yeah, that's interesting. I will sometimes listen to music. I had an old mentor of mine who said turn on classical music. So it's interesting you say that because just in the last few days, I've started listening to more classical music again, just do a Spotify play. Play Tchaikovsky. And so one day I'll listen to Chucky Tchaikovsky all day long. Just to have it on in the background. But yeah, sometimes music but I also don't mind just the the constant drone of my family bouncing around or like I say in a coffee shop or I'll sit outside and the birds will make noise I sometimes call New York and I worried that they wonder what I'm doing because I know they can hear the birds in the background Yeah, I like I generally like ambient noises you know when I hike and when I run I don't listen to my music anymore because I want to be sort of more aware more part of the environment. So yeah, that's a roundabout answer. I think I think I will do a little bit of everything.

Thom Pollard: 22:49

Super cool. What about when you when you're gonna go on a trip? Whether it's you know, the Olympics for a few weeks or whatever? What what do you what has to be with you what you could forget everything but or is there anything? Could you lose your bag and you'd be fine.

John Branch: 23:10

I think I have to have my phone. Because they can now do everything. They record interviews, they take pictures and videos. I can file on them if I really had to. So I think my phone and my charger or my my go twos now and beyond that. I could probably just walk out the door and, and be okay.

Thom Pollard: 23:30

What about for a neophyte who doesn't travel that much? If they were like, john, I'm gonna go to Bolivia. What should I bring with me? Not that you're a Bolivia guy necessarily, but I'm sure you've been there.

John Branch: 23:44

Yeah, what would I bring with me? You know, I always bring some sort of snack mix or like almonds, right for you. And I talked I was sinner chewing on some almonds. Just something in case you find yourself either unable to eat food for a while or you find yourself with no options because you land in the middle of the night. Or you find yourself someplace where nothing looks very appetizing where there is not a 711 on the corner offering egg salad sandwiches

Thom Pollard: 24:12

Do you know that this just popped into my head so when you you traveled through a lot of different countries, I don't know if you have your running count going. But But when you go to a place like maybe in South America might not be so vital is so vital because I've gone into South American countries and other than not really speaking the language fluently. You can kind of blend in a little bit. But in in in countries like Japan, there are there are a lot more social customs. So do you like I mean, do you kind of have to like sit back and let other people lead because I hear that it's, it's you could offend people if you do something wrong.

John Branch: 24:53

Yeah. I have the great luxury generally when I travel for work overseas, of either being someplace somewhat familiar or of having somebody who's kind of a fixer or translator that can kind of guide me, I'll tell you that when I went to Tokyo a couple years ago, for the first time, we did a lot of meetings with people because we were talking about things like how they're going to deal with the heat, or what they would do in case of an emergency. So we had a lot of meetings with a lot of manage managers at these various pure autocracies until Tokyo. And then about the third day, I ran out of business cards. I haven't I mean, I hadn't given out a business card in a year. But I had like 10, and I ran out of them in the first day, because that's part of the customers, you hand people your business card. And so I collected a bunch and I gave away a bunch and I thought, What am I going to do the next two weeks, I have no business cards here. And so he felt really rude by showing up to these meetings trying to explain and you know, my English, then having the translator say he's sorry, he just doesn't have enough business cards.

Thom Pollard: 25:56

There's no kinkos next to the Lawson sec. Say?

John Branch: 26:01

No. Next to losses are 711. Yeah, there's no coffee machine there of all things.

Thom Pollard: 26:07

Unreal. i'm john. Cool. So So let me ask you this before I let you go. And I thank you for jumping into this on a Friday afternoon. Are is there as a cool story you're working on now? Can you can you divulge anything,

John Branch: 26:26

there are just gotten back from the Olympics. So I'm now sort of rebooting something. So I do have a cool story, actually, in the climbing realm, actually in South America that I will tell you about off the record. And another time, perhaps, that I'm excited about getting back to and I'm also focused a lot on the Beijing Olympics, which because of the pandemic, really less than six months away from the Winter Olympics. So quick flip to winter seasons, and I'll be writing a bunch of stories leading up to Beijing. 2022. Wow.

Thom Pollard: 26:58

Oh, man, that is so awesome. From Japan to China in in the course of a year. Half a year. Really? That's pretty cool.

John Branch: 27:08

Yeah, yeah. Nobody's feeling sorry for me. Especially I feel sorry for myself sometimes.

Thom Pollard: 27:13

Yeah. Right. Especially not your wife and kids.

John Branch: 27:16

Right? Crimea River. Yeah. Hey, um,

Thom Pollard: 27:18

so do you know By the way, what your got your running counters for how many countries you've been to?

John Branch: 27:23

I don't. It's not that many. I'm not a great world traveler. But it's, you know, most of Europe and a few countries in Asia and only one in South America. So it's probably 30 I would guess, john, as always, thank

Thom Pollard: 27:39

you for your time, your work, your incredible work and the friendship. I appreciate you so much. I have no idea.

John Branch: 27:47

Thank you. Keep that smile go and we need more of those. As I said and always a pleasure to see you.

Thom Pollard: 27:58

JOHN branch's recent book is called side country, tales of death and life from the backroads of sports. JOHN is on Twitter and Instagram at john branch and yt. And you of course can read his works in the New York Times. Thanks for visiting tools for nomads and upclose. an insightful look into the lives and habits of passionate and creatively prolific people like john branch tools for nomads is brought to you by top drawer. at top drawer nomadism isn't simply about being on the move. It's about loving and living life where the things we carry directly impact our productivity, our well being and even our identity. Top Georgia combines the quality and craftsmanship of our grandparents generation with the drive for independence, function and stylish sustainability. It all results in a collection of tools curated from around the world that help you do your best work. wherever you are. Visit top draw shop.com or visit one of their dozen plus meticulously outfitted shops in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Boston, Berkeley, Chicago, and Tokyo. top drawer shop.com Thanks for visiting. I'm Thom Pollard. I'll see you next time on tools for nomads.