2024 Strategic Planning in Home Services

What's a business without numbers? We've got you covered there too. We talk about the importance of tracking and analyzing business numbers, identifying patterns, and addressing issues as they arise. Plus, get ready to rethink your approach to recruiting strategies for seasonal businesses. We've got some innovative ideas to share. And as we look ahead to 2024, we discuss our biggest business concerns and how we're planning for the future. So, buckle up and get ready for an insightful journey through the exciting world of small businesses! Did you know our amazing voices can go beyond just the microphone? Yes, we have video! Subscribe to our YouTube channel here!

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GOLD NUGGETS:

(06:10) - Nuts and Bolts of Starting a Handyman Service

(15:14) - How to Get Referrals and Business Expansion

(20:06) - Choosing the Right CRM for Business

(26:52) - Analyzing Business Numbers and Trends

(33:40) - Recruiting Strategies for Seasonal Businesses

(41:53) - Preparing for 2024 and Business Concern

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Previous guests on The Small Business Safari include Amy Lyle, Ben Alexander, Joseph Sission, Jonathan Ellis, Brad Dell, Chris Hanks, C.T. Emerson, Chad Brown, Tracy Moore, Wayne Sherger, David Raymond, Paul Redman, Gabby Meteor, Ryan Dement, Barbara Heil Sonneck, Bryan John, Tom Defore, Rusty Clifton, Duane Johns, Beth Miller, Jason Sleeman, Andy Suggs, Chris Michel, Jon Ostenson, Tommy Breedlove, Rocky Lalvani, Amanda Griffey, Spencer Powell, Joe Perrone, David Lupberger, Duane C. Barney, Dave Moerman, Jim Ryerson, Al Mishkoff, Scott Specker, Mike Claudio and more!

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If You Loved This Episode Try These!

• 2024 Home Service Industry Predictions Because Economists Don’t Lie! | Mischa Fisher

• Painting Marketing Pros Founder Brandon Pierpont Unlocks the Secret for Painters and Rest of Us

• Moving Titan Shares His Secrets for Elevating the Entire Industry | Wade Swikle

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Have any questions or comments? Connect with me here!

Transcript

Alan Wyatt: 0:01

What is it? You're not quite morbidly obese, or?

Chris Lalomia: 0:04

I am Right now. I'm obese. I'm not morbidly obese, Okay, but if I lose 10 pounds, I'll be solidly overweight. Solidly overweight. So that's the goal. So that's the goal. So that's my new workout t-shirt striving for solidly overweight. Forget the fact that I'm in the gym five days week. Yeah.

Alan Wyatt: 0:21

He may need a new plan.

Chris Lalomia: 0:23

Welcome to the Small Business Safari where I help guide you to avoid those traps, pitfalls and dangers that lurk when navigating the wild world of small business ownership. I'll share those gold nuggets of information and invite guests to help accelerate your ascent to that mountaintop of success. It's a jungle out there and I want to help you traverse through the levels of owning your own business that can get you bogged down and distract you from hitting your own personal and professional goals. So strap in adventure team and let's take a ride through the safari and get you to the mountaintop. Hey, hey, we're back, hey now. Yeah, a little Howard Stern for you. We are back, ready to rock it. What are we going to do on today's episode, Alan, we are looking straight at each other. This is the first time in a long time we actually look right at each other and I have to say we're getting older.

Alan Wyatt: 1:17

Yeah.

Chris Lalomia: 1:17

Yeah.

Alan Wyatt: 1:18

I mean, you know you've done okay, yeah, no, nice try as you said.

Chris Lalomia: 1:23

the chickens have come home to roost. They have, yeah.

Alan Wyatt: 1:25

Legula. So, yeah, this reminds me and I'm sure a lot of our listeners now who weren't with us at the very beginning don't know that it was just you and me no guests a long time ago and we had crappy equipment and we drank a ton of beer and we just talked for hours and then the more we talked and the more beer we drank, the more we had to pause it and run in P yeah, and it got to the point was like every 15 minutes, and that was when I hey, maybe we should stop the recording Right.

Chris Lalomia: 1:53

Because we'd say, ed, edit this out. Ed, we had to go take a break, please edit that. So we made him edit for hours, and now we got it down to a very minimal edit. He would miss some of the edits. Oh, yeah, yeah, on purpose, especially when he knew he could make fun of me. Yeah, oh, my gosh, that's right. So it's you and me in studio, no guests today. We're going to have a great time, though, picking off questions that we have received over the last year from different listeners, either emails or phone calls to me asking questions, and I was telling you about someone you're like, you know. I think we should just have an episode where everybody can kind of hear your answers and we can kind of kick it around a little bit and give everybody the benefit of your wisdom, of my wisdom, of course. That's of course. That's what I mean.

Alan Wyatt: 2:38

It is. I think it's really cool, though, that the listeners have been so engaged. Yeah, I think it's almost almost weekly.

Chris Lalomia: 2:45

We're getting almost weekly, I'll get an email. I actually just talked with another person who may actually be moving to my area, which is crazy. So, yeah, it's. It's kind of cool because you know again, are we a top 1% podcast in the world? No, we're top 10 percent podcast, but top five, top five. That's right.

Chris Lalomia: 3:06

Well, we're right on the outside looking in on that one because, come on, all right, we're there, but I'm still making your aspirational close, oh my God. Hey, well, you know what more of you guys got to go out there. Give us a follow, share this with your, with your friends. I'm telling you, I was just at another networking event last week where I said, hey, I got a podcast, and the guy leaned over and said, yeah, you need to listen to it, it's really good. I'm like, oh, thank you, man, I appreciate that. So that was, you know, some unsolicited feedback, because I was sitting there. Of course, you wanted me to do business with them, but, but it was still cool.

Chris Lalomia: 3:37

So what are we going to do today? We're going to take off and hit some of those questions and then you and I will kick around the answers and share some of the stuff that I shared and some other things that maybe I didn't share that I wanted to make sure, because we are at the time of Thanksgiving, as we're putting this one down, so we're giving thanks to all of our listeners and everybody who's hanging there, hanging there with us, listen to what we have to say. Maybe go out there and check us out on YouTube. Our shorts are really hitting pretty hard. They're kind of fun. So if you don't have the attention span to stick with us the whole time, you can go catch out a short first and then get back in your truck or go on your walk and take your dog for a walk and listen to us and hopefully we're educating you. Give you a little education, but we're also giving you a lot of fun.

Alan Wyatt: 4:18

Yeah, and then I think what we're going to do after that is roll into it's that time of year when you should have already done it some strategic planning, but we're also going into a little bit more of a rocky season. There's a little bit of doom and gloom out there when it comes to the economy and what are we doing about it, so I think there's going to be a lot of gold nuggets today.

Chris Lalomia: 4:39

I think, yeah, you're right, you threw that one on me. I like that idea because this time every year I do do a lot of planning and get a chance to kind of look back 12 and look forward 12. And that's where you need to be if you're trying to figure out how to keep your business rolling and keep scaling and keep going up the thing. So, yeah, I can't wait to get into that. But again just want to say thank you to all the listeners. Go out there and share this, follow with us, get other friends to follow. Okay, let's get us up there. We're actually going to do some really cool things in 24. Probably do a couple of remote visits and go see some people and go see some sites, go see some universities, some breweries and some breweries, of course, and we're actually going to have brewery. Yeah, I come see us here later.

Alan Wyatt: 5:19

So I'm so excited. Yep. Well, Chris, I am thankful for you. This has been a lot of fun.

Chris Lalomia: 5:24

Well, again I asked you to come do this and you said how much do I make? And I said zero and you said okay, I'll do it.

Alan Wyatt: 5:30

And then I said, well, will there be beer there? And you're like, if you bring it, and you have.

Chris Lalomia: 5:35

You brought your own today. I brought my own today, but I decided to go bourbon on the celebratory time in the year. So we're going Woodford Reserve double oak as we get ready to rock and roll and spew wisdom.

Alan Wyatt: 5:47

I think you need a bigger glass. I mean, you want a mason jar. Hi, wait, hey, now this is sipping, sipping shine as I was sipping shine, but you've got a half a gallon and well, yeah, we like to call it a boss of us, oh, classy, but got buttloads of class. Yep, all right, you want a question from the listeners? All right let's go.

Chris Lalomia: 6:08

No one question here we go rock and roll.

Alan Wyatt: 6:10

This one wasn't too long ago. I, chris. I am a property manager and I've been asked multiple times to include a handyman service. I'm thinking of starting it because I am handy and I also have a number of contractors I could refer the work to. What are things I should consider.

Chris Lalomia: 6:27

I love that question because I've had it more than once. You're in an adjunct business and it seems like a natural fit to add in a handyman business, which I've been running out for 15 and a half years, and I would tell you there's a lot of things to consider. The first part is you are a property manager and you're providing a service to your customers. Your question that you need to ask is why are they asking you for handyman services and what are they looking to accomplish? It's a big question to ask yourself.

Chris Lalomia: 6:55

If I had all those properties I think one of the things I didn't say this when I talked to the individual on the phone last time is I would. I would go ahead and put a survey together and ask people what they're looking for. What services are they looking for, what's the timeline, what's the response that they're looking for? What do they think is an appropriate amount of money to spend with you, where you don't have to have prior approval for money? So what do I mean If they are looking for emergency services? You know my, my, my toilet has stopped working. It's Sunday afternoon at three o'clock. I need a plumber dispatched immediately. You have to ask yourself are you built for that? When I first started my business, I thought we would be a weekend and emergency response business, and we weren't what has turned out to be, did you?

Alan Wyatt: 7:40

think that was going to be part of your business, or that or that was okay, I thought.

Chris Lalomia: 7:44

I didn't think no, but I thought there would be a lot of weekends, a lot of nights, a lot of a lot of hey, I need you out here right now. I'm going to pay for this service. And the answer is as a handyman we weren't plumbers, electricians, hvac specialists, especially in the south. Yes, so you get to ask yourself if your subscriber group, as you were as a property manager if they're asking for that kind of stuff, can you provide that kind of service? Because guys who can provide that kind of service are built to respond like that. They have a call center, they have a dispatch, they have an on-call person. They have it because if you can't provide that and it gets called on, you look really bad, and now that starts to damage your property management brand. If you do that survey and find out they're looking for just punch list items around there.

Chris Lalomia: 8:29

One of the things that I found as a residential real estate person, you know working in with people is that if I didn't have somebody on site to approve what the charges were going to be, it slowed us down and you couldn't get the job done. And now you're paying somebody to go there, paying them either by the hour or by the job. However, you decide to do it and you got to pay them because they aren't going out there for free. But if they go there and they say, hey, I came here to fix this door but the door got kicked in good example, we needed to get it, needed to get them safe and get it boarded up. And you went okay, it's going to be $250. Oh, right now I can't afford. I don't know what that is. I have to find out from my property manager or my landlord if I can pay that. Well, now your guy is dead in the water, not doing it until you can get somebody to do it.

Chris Lalomia: 9:17

So what I would say is if you did this, get a pre-approval amount. You know we'll do stuff up to $300 pre-approved and we'll take care of things. Anything over above 300, we will go ask for it. These are a lot of detailed things that I'm giving you, but it starts with what is your group looking for and can you provide that level of service? Even as a handyman, it's still going to be that level of service. And then you got to ask yourself if you're relying on your subcontractors. Are you okay with their response time? Like, think about it. Alan, you know you're cool if you know that I'm going to take care of something for you and you're willing to wait because you know I'll take care of you. But these guys don't know who we are, and so are they going to wait.

Alan Wyatt: 10:02

So is it the tenant that's asking or is it the actual owner of the property that's asking for this? It usually is tenant-driven, Really. Yep See, I could see an owner saying, hey, okay, you're my property manager, you're handling all this stuff, but there's repairs that need to be made and in that case it probably, or maybe enhancements that you want to have made. So in that case maybe it wouldn't be as time sensitive.

Chris Lalomia: 10:32

Enhancements? Definitely not, but usually it's tenant-driven, when the tenants are asking because they're in the house and they're the ones saying and I love this one too, hey, I need you guys out there, and you start to figure out why. Get out there and you do the job, especially with us.

Alan Wyatt: 10:47

We don't have a Because they had a rager and they put a hole in the wall and they don't want the landlord to know.

Chris Lalomia: 10:52

Or the landlord hasn't fixed a toilet for a month and they're like no, I'm not paying you another rent check until you get that toilet fixed. Now I have a motivated landlord or property owner and the Because the tenant's holding the check over their head and we've been in the middle of those two. That sounds like fun. Yeah, not fun. But again you think about it as a property manager, you're sitting on and you're doing a great transactional service for them by managing their property, and sometimes managing that property is you're also taking care of it and doing a punch list inspection. You might be doing some of that I've seen that before but when you dip into this business you want to. I would say, pull your clients first and find out, because it's a different transaction that if you can execute on, it'll work well.

Alan Wyatt: 11:40

I just switched from a Pilsner to IPA and it kind of made me pucker. You got happy, I did All right. Question number two, which is pretty similar to question number one, so I'm curious to know what the difference will be for you. Chris, I am a specialist in drywall which God love you and I'm trying to decide if I should grow this business or get into offering handyman services and broadening my scope. So should I stay focused or should I broaden my? Okay, how do I evaluate which approach is the best?

Chris Lalomia: 12:13

I think that it's a different question for me, and the reason is in the home services space, if you're really good at drywall, who are your customers and don't tell me homeowners, who are your customers? A contractor, probably more than a lot. It's a contractor. So you're really a B2B company. That means business to business. You're not a business to consumer, customer or company. You are focused on your businesses. So if that's the model you like to work within meaning the contractors call you to do the work then you got to understand who your customer is, because it's not the end client. I mean, they may give you a grief back or not pay the general contractor, but if your contractors are your business and that's where you want to grow, that is where you need to focus, because B2B marketing is way different than B2C. Yeah, so that's why when he called me that was the first question, I know I threw him a huge curveball. He's like but no, no, people ask me to do the handyman stuff while I'm there. I'm like I get it, but that's not a business, that's just an add on. And if you want to make it a business, then you got to decide how you're going to build it, and this is what I mean.

Chris Lalomia: 13:20

If I have Chris's drywall company and I'm CDW, cdc. Yeah, chris's drywall company, cdc, I'm the CDC baby, I just made it up. I wonder where you're going with it. If I'm Chris's drywall company, do I market that to other people? Because I will tell you the contractor or anybody who's listened to this, and go. You know what I get, all my work word of mouth. I don't have to advertise one bit. Well, you know what it's going to dry up man, and you got to be ready for it.

Alan Wyatt: 13:49

And if you're going to be just go negative.

Chris Lalomia: 13:51

I am in on this one. I'm not negative. I'm like be proactive and be positive about it, because CDC doesn't work Unless I market it to other people to get other work so I can get more drywall contracts. Now if I want to do just drywall contracting, then I'm going to go swim where all these contractors are. I'm going to find associations, trade associations and I'm going to go do that. But if I'm going to start offering handyman businesses and actually make a true business out of it, I got to figure out if my name is going to ring with the residents in the public and if I really want to be a B2C company. And then it's a mine shift. You have to shift into understanding how you deliver it, because you might be really good at a bunch of stuff. But what happens when you start to scale in this and your other guy? And your other guy doesn't do it, quite unlike what you did.

Alan Wyatt: 14:37

Maybe You're speaking from personal experience. Oh yeah, you know, is it?

Chris Lalomia: 14:39

painful. It is painful, you know. Hey, go out there. Hey, they just asked you to change out a door lock where you're doing the drywall. And you go out there and you find out that they installed the door lock exactly backwards. Yep, that's right. That's right. The deadbolt was on the inside and the lever was on the outside. Maybe that's intentional. It's the murder room, oh my gosh. So I think that's it's a big shift, because you might say, well, people are asking me for it, and so there goes. Because people ask you for it doesn't mean you should start doing it. Be intentional, because if you're intentional about it, you'll have a better chance for success and it's more long term.

Alan Wyatt: 15:14

Is there any conflict of interest? You know you're trying to get business from contractors. Are you somehow taking away business from them if you're doing handyman stuff?

Chris Lalomia: 15:25

That's another great question. But I think if I'm a GC and I got a drywall guy there and he can dop, you just get one there. But if I'm a GC and my drywall guy says, hey, the customer just asked me to paint what I just did, I'll ask the question Can you Well come check it? But if he can do it, then I don't have to get my painter out there and it's a small drywall patch, let's say we're punching stuff out. I might have him give it a shot. So it could be an advantage. It definitely could be an advantage. But then again, I'm not marketing to consumers, I'm marketing to my existing contractor base about being able to do a few more things, but not a lot of things, a few more. That's the key thing.

Alan Wyatt: 16:05

Is there such a thing as saying, hey, thanks for asking, I don't do that, but I know somebody who does, and I refer oh, say, you know a better trusted toolbox, and then they give me a commission.

Chris Lalomia: 16:18

I like the thought process of what you just said, but the referrals are a dangerous web to work in. I like this, I don't. But let me you make sure that you got a better group of people who are going to respond to your customer base, because that negative referral comes back and bites you in the butt. The other thing is, if you think you're going to make a few bucks off of that, skip it. You don't need a commission, you don't need to go chase these guys down and I'll tell you I brought a, I brought a, I brought I just couldn't mad thinking about it.

Chris Lalomia: 16:52

But I brought a guy in to do a retaining wall, because we don't do it, so we could finish off a deck, because what was happening was the retaining wall that was there was failing. I brought him in and I said, look, I'm going to take a cut off of you, right, as a subcontractor. Well, I didn't take my cut up front.

Chris Lalomia: 17:07

Guess who blocked me, never took my calls again and that guy is dead to me and I didn't get an iron slashed yeah, If I ever find that guy. So you got to watch this in the referral thing and if you think you need to make some money up front and you heard me and you just went ah, Chris, you're stupid, that's why you're, that's why you lost that one you should have got your money up front. It is such a pain in the ass to run people down for money and stuff like that, when you could have just said hey, by the way, I just referred you to one of my best general contractors.

Alan Wyatt: 17:34

Just remember that next time somebody asked you for a referral because I might be able to help you out in my specialty Right and you're saying, really it's probably better to just stay in your lane and scale.

Chris Lalomia: 17:46

And when you refer, let people know you referred him. I agree with that 100%, because you and I talk about networking all the time. But but you know what? If I said, hey Alan, I got a. I got a person's looking for some from some industrial space. Hey, this is his name. What's going on? Alan goes oh, I remember that Chris did that. Hey, chris, thanks for calling. By the way, I had some squirrels getting on my attic. Can you help me out with that?

Alan Wyatt: 18:10

All the family of squirrels. It's all hypothetical. I did trap five and released them across the river in.

Chris Lalomia: 18:16

Gwinnett County. You know you did the right thing. You're an above board great person and you probably are a Boy Scout leader.

Alan Wyatt: 18:23

Because some people that maybe we know might have just drowned them in their pool, maybe allegedly can't convict me, never know.

Chris Lalomia: 18:32

I mean. I mean the person.

Alan Wyatt: 18:33

I heard. I heard what I did might be considered illegal.

Chris Lalomia: 18:36

There's a lot of rules out there. Man, you do the right thing. You let them live.

Alan Wyatt: 18:39

You got them out Well because I used to release them down the street and guess where they came right back home. Yeah, I mean, they're like dogs, so I figured if they can get across the river and all that traffic and get back to my house, then maybe they kind of deserve it.

Chris Lalomia: 18:54

Maybe you could make them a little condo, yeah, a little bed and breakfast. I think so, I think so Put out some peanut butter for them.

Alan Wyatt: 18:59

All. Right, chris, what software do you use to run your business? Is it successful and how hard is it to implement?

Chris Lalomia: 19:08

This is a great question that was asked and I keep getting it asked and I see it in Facebook groups, and I'll tell you what. Not every software is built for everybody, but I wrote this in my book.

Alan Wyatt: 19:20

Oh, your book. We haven't talked about your book in a while. What's the name of it?

Chris Lalomia: 19:23

Chris Boy that was almost genuine. Maybe should you take two please.

Alan Wyatt: 19:27

Oh my God. Okay, let's see All right. Oh yeah, chris, I'm glad you brought up your book, because that would be very valuable to our listeners right now, that's take three.

Chris Lalomia: 19:37

Okay, just have more feeling, please.

Alan Wyatt: 19:40

More feeling. Chris, your book changed my life. I am so glad that I read it and I make it every New Year's resolution to reread it at least once a month. And I make my children read it. I make my wife read it to me every night before I go to sleep. All right, that was a little over the board.

Chris Lalomia: 19:59

Okay, but you did good. Okay, you know, take three was a lot better than the first two. Okay, so I'm going to read my book from the zoo to the wild. I will tell you. When I first started my business we have talked about this I was very intentional on the business I chose. I used the business planning process to not only help me select a business, but to start it. I started with a CRM system, but I didn't start with a Ferrari because all I needed to do was get on the tricycle and get out the door. So I started with a client server-based, very rudimentary, small-cost CRM system. In today's world, 15 and a half years later, you can get a web-based system for almost nothing. These guys who tell me hey, man, I do it all through Google Calendar and I do this and do that. These systems out there are so much more robust for a very little low investment.

Alan Wyatt: 20:44

It's worth it. What is the difference between the tricycle that you wrote in on and what you have now?

Chris Lalomia: 20:50

So the tricycle I wrote in on was client server-based, which means any guy in the field couldn't have it, so I was paper-based for my technicians in the field. Today they have apps on their phone and they can see exactly where they're going, what they're doing and have pictures of the job before they get there, and that gives them power. It gives them power to know what they're walking into, gives them power of knowledge when they show up to the customer and give a plan to what they're doing. But the CRM systems that are out there today and I've heard a lot of them. I'm not going to name names right now, but I think not all fit everybody. You can go from the tricycle all the way up to the souped-up Ferrari. You'll pay accordingly. But the one thing I would counsel against is and I keep hearing guys do this, because the one who asked me this last question is developing his own because he thinks he can actually build the widget better than these other companies out- there?

Alan Wyatt: 21:42

Does he have experience?

Chris Lalomia: 21:42

building software. No, okay, yeah, and I felt bad and say a word. I should have hit him directly between the eyes going what? But he'd already built it and he wanted to know if I wanted to buy it, I might know.

Alan Wyatt: 21:54

Of course not. So is it kind of an all-in-one system that you have? I mean, does it have the consumer follow-up and roll into the reminders and the texting and all that stuff? Is that part of the platform?

Chris Lalomia: 22:03

Now we're talking my language. So now we're in the middle of, we're between tricycle and Ferrari. You're probably rolling out a better so Chevy. So is it a loner Chevy? It's actually a better. It's better than Ford. It's a Chevy. Allen drives a Ford. Yes, I got my truck back, though. Thank you, chevy, and thank you UAW for resolving this track and thank you General Motors.

Chris Lalomia: 22:29

So I think, yes, when you get a customer, you need to think about customer acquisition. I got a name, I got an address, I got a phone number, I got an email address. Get that in the one all-in-one box system that does all this stuff for you to make your job easier. I was talking to another business owner who said he used to spend two hours a day. Two hours a day making sure that one system would talk to the other and he had to rekey in things so his estimators would go look at a job. Is that a good use of time? You think no, really. He's like. This whole system I use today has a limit to that he goes. I haven't been in the system in two years. It's how long he's been on it Two years Beginning two hours a day, taking what was estimated from the estimator, putting into the order system, getting parts ordered, then putting the cut sheets together and the install together and then putting it again into another system to get his other guys out there to install it.

Alan Wyatt: 23:28

So it does kind of bring up a good question, because you could be Pennywise and Pound Foolish and the tricycle just isn't enough for what you need. But then there's the other side, where the Ferrari has just way more horsepower, way more buttons, way more technology than you need. How do you figure out what you need for your business?

Chris Lalomia: 23:47

So the thing we used the last time I shifted and I shifted seven years ago- Was it a paddle shift and it was just in the Ferrari thing.

Alan Wyatt: 23:55

Sorry, go ahead.

Chris Lalomia: 23:55

Nice and in honor of F1, hitting it hard, hit the corners, get out of there and then hit the DRS and I took off, or I took a system that was web-based and we moved to it, and so I'm going to answer my own question.

Chris Lalomia: 24:13

The technology itself will check a lot of boxes, but it won't check all of them. But you need to know the boxes you want to check and take it. From the moment a customer tries to contact you Email, phone call, text message however, they can get to you To the end where you invoice them and follow up with them for a review on what you've done. Take it all the way through and see all the boxes that they'll check for you and it sees if it hits. If it's the majority, if it's 75, 80% of them, then you probably have the group and also what you want to look at in these customer and these softwares. Are they going to scale with you? Are they going to keep developing and doing what they're good at, which is developing software to help you? Are they going to listen to you? Are they going to keep making your product better?

Alan Wyatt: 25:04

Because software salespeople sometimes I'm not saying that all salespeople over promise and under deliver, but they'll tell you that they're going to continue to develop with you and then you get this thing and it's a square peg round hole situation and you ask for another feature and they're like I'm sorry, we're gonna have to put that in the queue.

Chris Lalomia: 25:22

But then in the same breath they tell you, oh, but we have a quarterly enhancement queue and you're in it and perhaps I love being in a queue. Yeah, especially a quarterly queue, and I'm not sure what quarter. I think we're talking like the quarter century queue. I think that's right. Yeah, I think the quarter lifespan of the whole world Earth might be one of them. So quarter millennial yeah, I think, if you look it up, I had not all one software fits at all. Find Facebook groups in your industry. Find out who serves your industry the best.

Alan Wyatt: 25:53

I think that's a really good point. It kind of goes back to one of our recent guests and we asked about how you vet out a vet, a marketing person, and it's give me an example of somebody who's in my same space that you've had success with. And it's the same thing with software, don't you think?

Chris Lalomia: 26:08

I do because they got to know it. They got to know what you're doing, because there might be a great software for an HVAC company and there's a lot of them out there, because that's where a lot of money is there might be a great software for an electric company and a plumber and a carpet cleaner and a window cleaner and a window and blinds installer. But you say, well, they're all the same, we're all transactional. But if you find somebody who's in your industry, odds are they're going to be focused on you and your industry and they're going to help you out a lot more, and not for a lot of money, because they're serving your whole group.

Alan Wyatt: 26:41

I think that's the best answer you've given so far today. It's very sage advice, Chris.

Chris Lalomia: 26:45

Thank you, alan, and that was from the heart. I could tell who brought this guy.

Alan Wyatt: 26:51

Let's go.

Chris Lalomia: 26:52

How's your bourbon doing? I'm only halfway through my vet and my boss.

Alan Wyatt: 26:57

You need one of those little kegs wrap around your neck and a straw coming out of it. I would have made a great one of those dogs.

Chris Lalomia: 27:04

St Bernard's. Yeah, those two.

Alan Wyatt: 27:06

All right, chris use them. I don't like them. What is it? You're not quite morbidly obese.

Chris Lalomia: 27:12

I am Right now. I'm obese. I'm not morbidly obese, but if I lose 10 pounds, I'll be solidly overweight. Solidly overweight is the goal. So that's the goal. So that's my new workout t-shirt striving for solidly overweight. Forget the fact that I'm in the gym five days a week.

Alan Wyatt: 27:29

Yeah, he may need a new plan. Okay, chris, you seem to have a good handle. Seem is the key word there. On your numbers in your business, what would you tell me to focus in on and how often should I be looking at them?

Chris Lalomia: 27:43

I am striking the Johnny Carson Karnak pose from your back. You know I'm clenching the bridge of your nose Right and I'm going. Hmm, thank you, ed Seeming. Seeming me he's right. I seemingly have a good handle on my numbers. He has a great handle on his numbers. I do like to have a good handle on my numbers, as it were. So, however, I always think you could be better, and I'm glad that people think that, and that was a great question that was asked of me, and my first response was I don't know if it's as good as I make it to be.

Chris Lalomia: 28:13

I will tell you that there's been a lot of ups and downs Over 15 and a half years. There's a lot of times where I went wow, I'm missing the mark. I'm not looking at these like I should be, but I would recommend to everybody is number one have a good set of books. It doesn't have to be hard, it doesn't have to be complicated. You have costs of goods, sold revenues on top of it, then you have a gross profit, and then, underneath that, what does it cost for you to keep the lights open and your admin stuff? Make it very simple. Keep it simple, stupid as well.

Alan Wyatt: 28:47

The lights open and the doors on. I try to, but usually backwards. So do you have? How real time are the numbers that you have? I'm sure you have KPIs, that you look at key performance indicators Yep, it would be interesting to hear what those are and how quickly can you get a real number on those. Yeah, that all right.

Chris Lalomia: 29:07

For me this is where I would say I think I'm good and then I found somebody who's even better. I look at them weekly and here's where I look at number of calls, number of leads, number of onsite estimates, number of jobs, dollars closed, and that's where I stop. I look at, well, sales converted and then number of jobs completed and dollars Start that list over again because that's good Calls or leads coming in. I count the leads, so we have a call Now. Do you qualify the leads?

Alan Wyatt: 29:41

I mean so the number of qualified leads. So I actually have moved to number of calls and inquiries because not every call is a new business inquiry.

Chris Lalomia: 29:51

Some of the extra calls are we're not doing it on a regular basis. The extra calls are we're not doing our job right and people are calling to follow up and find out what's going on Right. So I watched that number two and then the next one is number of leads, which is 100%, where I focused wholeheartedly watching the economy and seeing where we're going and we're a very seasonal business, so I'm watching seasons. Then I look at number of onsite estimates set up. Then I look at number of jobs completed and dollars and revenue completed and I look at number of onsite estimates converted into wins.

Alan Wyatt: 30:24

So you look at them once a week. How many weeks does it take before you've seen a pattern?

Chris Lalomia: 30:31

I love that question. That's true. Three weeks is a pattern.

Alan Wyatt: 30:35

Okay, three weeks. So then you spot a leak. Okay, we're not converting the calls into estimates. We have one issue the estimates aren't turning into closes. We've got a different issue.

Chris Lalomia: 30:45

Yeah. So for me, at the size I am now, three weeks makes a difference, which you're pretty big deal. I am pretty big deal, yeah, and we've got 19 technicians running, we've got five project managers, two different sets of businesses. We have the Athens branch, which I have it even simpler to look at to see where we're going. But I'll give you a great example.

Chris Lalomia: 31:05

As you come into the fall, in anywhere in the US Even though I'm in Atlanta, georgia and I grew up in Michigan everybody's like well, in the winter you're pretty much shut down unless you're doing inside projects because you can't work outside. Well, we start to slow down a lot here in Atlanta as well, and so the trend that I'm seeing is we're back to seasonal adjustments and that is, we're really busy, but the leads have gone way down. So our dollars and our jobs are way up because Thanksgiving and Christmas are happening and people want the jobs done, but they don't want you in their house right now to look at a bathroom remodel or a kitchen remodel if they really don't have to do it.

Alan Wyatt: 31:44

So it's weird, I think. You know, up north people work no matter what the weather is, and in the south I just feel like it's not a weather related thing, it's the holidays are here. I mean, we hear it in commercial real estate all the time. It's like well, I got the holidays. I'm like, hey, thanksgiving's two days. You know, you, can you know?

Chris Lalomia: 32:03

the extra to be fair. Yeah, Thanksgiving's one day, one right, Not two, but it's one. It's kind of you even said two.

Alan Wyatt: 32:09

It's bleeding into. So Thanksgiving is coming up, yeah, and nobody was answering a phone last Thursday or Friday for me in commercial real estate and I'm like we're 100% commissioned, you know, do you want to sell a building, do you want to buy a building? And they're not answering phones.

Chris Lalomia: 32:26

And then you get the Christmas and New Year's holiday put together. And again, if you're Christian and you celebrate Christmas, great. If you're not, you still celebrate Christmas because you get an opportunity to celebrate Christmas. So we take two weeks off for Christmas and New Year's, right. And you know, I know the rest of the world takes a lot more holidays than we do, but in the US that's one thing you have to get used to. So back to your.

Chris Lalomia: 32:50

Your question is when do you see a trend? That's when I see a trend. When I see a trend and dropping leads in the beginning of the year or in the spring, when things are should be going up, that's when I start to go hmm, what's going on? When I see a trend in on site estimates not being converted, that's when I go, hmm, we have a problem, right. And then when I see a trend in three weeks again, jobs not being completed and revenue not going up, and that's when we go in there and you find out oh well, we had a rash of um believe it or not COVID still around and we had four technicians out one week because of COVID.

Alan Wyatt: 33:29

Yeah, so because of that you can't overreact to the numbers. But so when you see that trend, I guess just to beat this horse just a little bit more to death. Calls coming in aren't turning into estimates, are you? Do you have the ability to record calls that are coming in and you can listen to them? Or do you just kind of hang out in the office like the you know the creepy boss and listening to the how your people are on the phone?

Chris Lalomia: 33:53

So what I really like to do is sit with them, like when, when they see me roll a chair up next to them, they're like, they're so excited about that. You know what they always are so excited or the eye roll and the heavy he begins. No, I listen to calls, so, but. But those key key performance indicators tell me where to put my focus Right. But I don't, on Monday morning, look at those KPIs key performance indicators and go, oh, look, leads are down. Oh, my God, I'm going to go call everyone of my advertisers or people I'm spending money with going hey, what the hell's going on? Hey, google pay per click. You know I'm not digging in that way.

Chris Lalomia: 34:26

What I'm doing is I'm looking for the trends and going in, and after I see a trend, then I go dig in and start listening to some phone calls or I've got actually somebody else listening to the phone calls for me now, which is a huge time suck, by the way. But it's, that's how you figure out what's going down. And you have to also understand if you're in a seasonal business. It's okay to be slower, it's not a bad thing. There's a reason. I'm doing strategic planning for 24 right now. Yeah, because I'm a little slower. Yeah, we'll get into that in a minute. Yeah, so it's a good time to do it. When you're in a seasonal business and coming off the heater that we were on coming out of COVID as a home services company, it's okay to take a breath. I'm saying that and if you're not hearing me on this one, it's okay, because when it happened, the first time you're a therapist I am because I didn't want to hear it.

Chris Lalomia: 35:17

I didn't want to hear that we're slow. I didn't want to hear in the second week in January that literally I had no job scheduled that week when I first started and I was like, oh my God, I am going to die and it's okay, take a deep breath. So what I found was, when things were slower in the beginning, my activities went way up. My activities were networking, advertising, figuring out what to do Because I got to make bets right now, and advertising for next year. As I'm staring at a slowdown and you know, because of the seasonal.

Alan Wyatt: 35:50

Are we rolling into the 2020? No no not yet Well you kind of did. No, you just about did. Okay, well, I can. Well, you have two other questions? Oh then, let's hit those first. All right, how do you find employees or subcontractors?

Chris Lalomia: 36:04

You know, I get asked this all the time and I don't have a magic bullet. When I first started in 2015, 2008. Here we are in 2023. I brought up 2015, because that's where I made the big pivot In 2008,. You put an ad out on Craigslist. I get 150 resumes. I mean it would just be insane. Now my interviewing process completely sucked, but I interviewed a lot of and I'd asked them all kinds of questions. I hear exactly the answers I wanted to hear because that's what they were trying to tell me and I sat there and went oh, you got. I lapt it up like a lap dog even though I like having them blow and shine up your skirt.

Chris Lalomia: 36:39

Yeah right, and I and I'm training critical behavior, interviewing, and I still was screwed it up so real quick.

Alan Wyatt: 36:44

What's the difference between your interviewing now and back then?

Chris Lalomia: 36:47

Yeah, so we we use industry jargon. They have to talk, to talk when we're talking with them, so that we know that they know what they're talking about. Give me an example, all right, drywall mud. If you're going to go do a drywall perellum and I just cut out a 16 by 16 inch patch so I could replace your shower belt, I want you to go out there and change that drywall patch. How would you do it go?

Alan Wyatt: 37:09

So I get the cutty thing and I lay it down with a measuring thing and draw a line on it and so I appreciate your time today.

Chris Lalomia: 37:18

Thank you, goodbye, no, but that so the right answer. And then there are no wrongs or rights. There are rights is the guy who cuts it out, makes a square patch on a 16 by 16. In today's world I still would go old school and do a drywall patch, meaning I put drywall in there and float it out, but I would use a combination of five minute, 20 minute, 45 minute and dry mix 90. I never use bucket mud and if guy can say that to me, I know he knows what he's talking about.

Alan Wyatt: 37:48

Yeah, I never use bucket mud either you lying you lying to your team, bro. You thought about it for a second, though you almost hired me, I almost.

Chris Lalomia: 37:57

You know what, but you can tell when you're doing that. You can tell if they know what they're doing. So when you go hang a door that's pre hung, how do you hang the door?

Chris Lalomia: 38:07

Yeah, that's a good one. See those technical questions in your field. Tell you if those guys know what they're talking about. Because if he says, well, the first thing I do is I put the door in and then I screw these things, I do like, oh boy, you're dead. So you go inside first and you know to take out screws on the hinge, and you know to use shims. Use two shims, not one shim, because one shim always next to that level. These guys need to know that stuff. But that's what would you have asked before, though, in the beginning, yeah, yeah, had none of those, had you?

Alan Wyatt: 38:44

ever. You know, you get a door.

Chris Lalomia: 38:46

How do you handle customers? Give me an example of a difficult customer you had. What did you do to fix it? Let's dive into that a little bit more. Okay, I don't make you feel, no, I didn't do that, but oh my God, it was horrible, horrible, and now you can flush him out pretty quick, because the only way I can do it and the question is, how do you find people? In the beginning it was Craigslist. Today, craigslist is dead. Don't even try. I've heard people. But here's the other thing I would tell you Try a bunch of stuff and see what sticks in the wall in your market because we don't have the magic bullet. I've tried. I've tried putting the magic bullet in my chamber and I've tried it a couple times and this cost me a lot of money and it hasn't worked for me.

Alan Wyatt: 39:24

Or you hire. Who do we just have on? Well, tina.

Chris Lalomia: 39:28

Yeah, oh well, all right To be fair. In my market, tina McKenna and Qualified Applicants has been a magic bullet. They have done good stuff.

Alan Wyatt: 39:38

It takes a ton off your plate, and they're experts at marketing.

Chris Lalomia: 39:41

They're experts at marketing and figuring out how to do this, because that's what we are in today's employment world is. You have to be a marketing company to attract employees. Yeah, she does a great job of it. Now I have to spend some money with them, but I am happy to spend that. I have never once. As soon as that invoice comes across the desk, I forward it immediately and say approved, approved approved.

Alan Wyatt: 40:02

Well, it kind of reminds me of the dude that spent two hours a day trying to make a software talk. I mean, it's the same thing with hiring and you can be just fumbling around or you can have an expert help you who's very reasonably priced. I mean, what's your time worth?

Chris Lalomia: 40:17

And she is way reasonably priced. We, we, we, we, we, we A Weskew rabbit. You are a Weskew rabbit, so no, she Qualified Applicants has been a great magic bullet. I've tried a number of other things social media. I've tried a guy who is nationally known for being able to find people in my market. You just don't know, because I'm talking about my market. How about referral programs? Referral programs did not work for me with my employees, because my employees, you have to remember who I've got.

Alan Wyatt: 40:47

They think that you bring somebody on that's gonna take food off their table. They're not there to help everybody else.

Chris Lalomia: 40:54

They're there as lone wolves trying to better their family, and my wolf pack offers them an opportunity to better themselves and their family better, and when they look at themselves they're like I'm the best wolf in the pack. I don't want you. Do you go after other people's employees? I have never done that, although I have had a number of business owners tell me they've done it. One of the people I know started his entire business of attracting two other guys and it sounds stealing and it sounds bad. Right, it just seems dirty. It does seem dirty and I couldn't do it because I used to go into Home Depot and try to just solicit other guys and that's exactly what it sounded like. I was a little creepy bro. I couldn't pull that off. That's just not the way I made up. That's not the way I can work. I could not monomorphize myself into that, so I couldn't do it Right. So I need other people to do it and qualified applicants and Tina and Megan have done a great job, all right.

Alan Wyatt: 41:53

Chris, what are you doing to prepare for 2024? And what do you see as the greatest concern in your business?

Chris Lalomia: 42:03

Alan, you know I've been talking about this. I can't wait to get into this. I can't. This is it, baby. We're going to rock it. I'm so excited, alan, that I probably can't do this in this episode. You're going to have to come back everybody. I appreciate you guys so much. I appreciate, alan, I appreciate all of you taking the time to be with us, listen to us, keep following us, keep checking this out, but, more importantly, I want you to be successful. I really do. We've been doing this for two years two and a half almost now and one of the things we've talked about is are we talking to you?

Alan Wyatt: 42:38

I think we are. I feel like it. I mean I don't have a definitive face in mind, but I mean it's like you know, you got Mark Fimowaki and the dude from Buffalo and the guy from Spokane that keep reaching out to you and it's just kind of creating this image in my mind of the you know some guy in a truck, some girl in a truck, whatever, just having a good time chucking along with our bad jokes and your excessive lifestyle. It's great.

Chris Lalomia: 43:02

That's right, baby. So come on back, get going. We're going to talk 2024 planning. How do we do it? What is going on and what's life all about? Keep going to the top. We're out of here. Cheers.