The Small Business Safari

[100th Episode Special!] Insights from Atlanta's Fearless Attorney | Jennifer Gore

• Chris Lalomia, Alan Wyatt, Jennifer Gore • Season 4 • Episode 100

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I usually don't like talking to lawyers,  but Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert is an expectation! She has such a fascinating story on how she got into law and then put her entrepreneurial spin on buildilng a business.  This is no "hang your shingle out" Attorney, She has thoughtfully built a business that happens to be in the field of law. Jen is the founding attorney and owner of Atlanta Personal Injury Law Group – Gore, a personal injury firm based in Roswell, Georgia. We explore the importance of networking, scaling a business, and overcoming fears of legal matters. Did you know our amazing voices can go beyond just the microphone? Yes, we have video! Subscribe to our YouTube channel here!

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Jen’s Links:

•  Website | https://atlinjurylawgroup.com/ 

•  Instagram | @jenngorelawyer

•  LinkedIn | @atlinjurylawgroup

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GOLD NUGGETS:

(04:47) - The Driving Force into Law

(17:22) - Entrepreneurship in Michigan and Georgia

(29:51) - Marketing Challenges for Law Firms

(36:34) - Marketing Strategies for Service Businesses

(44:54) - Law Business and Golf Hazards

(50:57) - Pressure is a Privilege

(56:24) - Entrepreneurship, Therapy, and Life Lessons

(01:05:27) - DIY Nightmares and Personal Injury Law

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Previous guests on The Small Business Safari include Amy Lyle, Ben Alexander, Joseph Sission, Jonathan Ellis, Brad Dell, Chris Hanks, C.T. Emerson, Chad Brown, Tracy Moore, Wayne Sherger, David Raymond, Paul Redman, Gabby Meteor, Ryan Dement, Barbara Heil Sonneck, Bryan John, Tom Defore, Rusty Clifton, Duane Johns, Beth Miller, Jason Sleeman, Andy Suggs, Chris Michel, Jon Ostenson, Tommy Breedlove, Rocky Lalvani, Amanda Griffey, Spencer Powell, Joe Perrone, David Lupberger, Duane C. Barney, Dave Moerman, Jim Ryerson, Al Mishkoff, Scott Specker, Mike Claudio and more!

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If you loved this episode try these!

• Building a Home Service Business with Huge Returns | Joel Mooneyham

• Mastering Small Business Marketing: Strategies, AI, and Insights with Sarah Block

• Scaling a Moving and Junk Removal Business: A Candid Conversation with Roger Panitch

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Have any questions or comments? Connect with me here!

From the Zoo to Wild is a book for entrepreneurs passionate about home services, looking to move away from corporate jobs. Chris Lalomia, a former executive, shares his path, discoveries, and tools to succeed as a small business owner in home improvement retail. The book provides the mindset, habits, leadership style, and customer-oriented processes necessary to succeed as a small business owner in home services.

Chris Lalomia:

All right. So I'm a big fan, but I do remember going to your office. We talked about this because your first business, your first company. So you go out there, you set up an LLC, you put the shingle out and the shingles name was The Gore Law. Firm, The Gore Law Firm, Really catchy.

Alan Wyatt:

But she says no she's already shicked her head. There's a lot of marketing implications there We will go. I didn't like it Well.

Jennifer Gore:

And the other thing is, you know, my name is technically Gore Cuthbert, because my maiden name was Gore And, like I told you, my husband's parents took each other's names, so he had two last names Cuthbert, Payne. So when we got married, I had the option to be Gore Payne.

Alan Wyatt:

Oh, that would have been perfect. Can you see that on a billboard, chris? Oh, that's even better, come on.

Chris Lalomia:

I got marketing shit coming out of my ears right now. Gore Payne, you go with me. Gore Payne, welcome to the Small Business Safari, where I help guide you to avoid those traps, pitfalls and dangers that lurk when navigating the wild world of small business ownership. I'll share those gold nuggets of information and invite guests to help accelerate your assent to that mountaintop of success. It's a jungle out there and I want to help you traverse through the levels of owning your own business that can get you bogged down and distract you from any of your own personal and professional goals. So strap in Adventure Team and let's take a ride through the safari and get you to the mountaintop. Oh boy, ella, we're back and here we're getting ready to go. But something that I'm always most worried about is that I usually don't like to work for lawyers. I don't like to talk too much. Even though Troy is a lawyer I used to be afraid of him.

Chris Lalomia:

Of course, i am always afraid of him. You know why? Because they're going to sue you for everything, everything. You're going to sue you for everything and you're smarter than you because they've read all those damn books And you know they're going to figure out a way to take every word you say and twist it.

Alan Wyatt:

And the only thing I got is my cousin Vinnie. You know what?

Chris Lalomia:

That's all I can remember is my cousin Vinnie in the Utes. But no, we've got a great episode today. We've got somebody I've done for quite a while. Jen Gore-Cutbert of Atlanta Personal Injury Law is here, and I knew her before it was Atlanta Personal Injury Law And that's what we're going to talk about is, not only is she a lawyer, she is an entrepreneur And I think she's always had that entrepreneurial spirit.

Chris Lalomia:

But when I met her, we met in B&I doing the networking which we've talked about before, and I did the old one-to-one coffee clutch and she's like come over to the office, i go there. And it was not even talking about business or networking, it was all talking about business. It was talking about how are you going to grow your business, how are you going to scale your business? Here's what I'm thinking. I'm going to go to this seminar. I'm going to do that. I'm like man, this chick's got to go and I'm not just some lawyer And she might not sue me, and that's all I was doing the whole time. I was waiting to go and thinking am I about to get sued? Am I about to get sued? So we have Jen Gore-Cutbert of Atlanta Personal Injury Law with us today. Welcome, and we're looking forward to talking with you today.

Jennifer Gore:

Thanks so much for having me. I feel like that was forever ago that we went out for that one-on-one. I think you were at my. You were at my office and before it was named today. Yeah, that had to be more than five years ago, right.

Chris Lalomia:

It has to be way more than five. Yeah, it's been quite a while since I talked, so I got to see this. But before we go into all that transformation, she's having a bourbon with us, and that's right. We always start every episode with cheers.

Jennifer Gore:

Hey, what are we drinking people? Where's the two?

Chris Lalomia:

This is your bourbon. Yeah, I know Rabbit.

Alan Wyatt:

Hole Fox, grail, kentucky Strait.

Chris Lalomia:

Right, i went for the rye. Yeah, i know I want to try. It's delicious, it is right. Yeah, it's amazing. Rabbit Hole, you should be sponsoring us. I don't know why you're not. I mean, for the love of God, we hit you guys on all the time. We put it out there. We're always looking for sponsorship Monday Night, bruggan's coming in because we drink their beer all the time too.

Jennifer Gore:

Well, now that I know that you're really big on the bourbon, I don't have to hook you up. You know, my husband works in the industry.

Alan Wyatt:

Oh, he does. This whole thing is set up to get your husband on the podcast.

Jennifer Gore:

Yeah, he can get you anything you want.

Chris Lalomia:

Okay, Oh, now we're talking. Look at the twinkle in your eye. In fact, I think we're shutting this podcast down and we're going. we'll start.

Jennifer Gore:

Angus Angus, you're up next buddy He would love to talk about it Your husband's name is Angus and he's in the whiskey industry.

Chris Lalomia:

That is What's his last name, though, because Gore Cuthbert.

Jennifer Gore:

So actually his full name is Angus Ellsworth Cuthbert Payne.

Chris Lalomia:

Holy cow.

Jennifer Gore:

How regal That's very.

Alan Wyatt:

Scottish Right, then That's fantastic, was he?

Chris Lalomia:

born here in the US.

Jennifer Gore:

Yes, Wow, and it's so funny because, like his sister and brother's names are James and Jessica.

Chris Lalomia:

He gets Angus, like what happened here. So what was his parents called? Angus or Gus? Do they really Gus?

Jennifer Gore:

Gus, yeah, but they went full blown Scottish on his name.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, they did. They took it right down. That's what they often joke. My dad always said if I wasn't born around St Patrick's Day, my name would have been Giovanna Giuseppe Laramia, and my mother was like oh no.

Alan Wyatt:

That's not happening. Thanks, mom.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, you know what. Thank you, mom, looking up at heaven. Yes, you saved me with Christopher Patrick, which is the only Irish thing that's even close to my family, because I was born the day before. All right, what clan is Ian Ian.

Jennifer Gore:

I don't that I don't know He would know. But you know he's got all kinds of. he's got all kinds of Scottish stuff.

Alan Wyatt:

We might be cousins.

Jennifer Gore:

You know, the name Angus is like John there. It's a very common name there.

Chris Lalomia:

Is it really? Angus is just a regular old name there.

Jennifer Gore:

I know, and he hates it because people here will call him like Agnes, that's not cool. That's a key way to trigger him.

Chris Lalomia:

Oh, that's funny too. I've only met him. I think I've met him once.

Jennifer Gore:

He's like six or six or seven, i'm just imagining him as a character in Braveheart?

Alan Wyatt:

Yeah, No, he's a big dude man. Yeah.

Chris Lalomia:

No, he's a big dude, but you know I've met him once. Really. You know I'm a going nice guy, you have great. So. But back to Jen. Yes, so that's why we're here Talk about this.

Alan Wyatt:

You're looking at me like this is all my fault. Well, i'm blaming you.

Chris Lalomia:

Well you were about to start. You were getting into the clan.

Alan Wyatt:

We're going straight into the bourbon store. I know You throw rocks at other people for fun.

Chris Lalomia:

Throw it and paint this face and yell and free the hop, which I've done with Alan before. All right, So, Jen, you started off in this career, but let's talk a little bit about that. So you're growing up in high school, You go to college. Did you always want to be a lawyer?

Jennifer Gore:

No.

Chris Lalomia:

Where were you going to?

Jennifer Gore:

be. That's why I feel like I'm the untraditional lawyer.

Alan Wyatt:

Well, and I want to just butt in because I know you're biome, i'm not going to steal it.

Jennifer Gore:

Okay, but.

Alan Wyatt:

I think most lawyers I know start because family tradition or hey, there's a lot of money in it.

Jennifer Gore:

That wasn't my driving force. I'm the first lawyer in my family. Nobody else was a lawyer, but my parents were entrepreneurial, My dad is an entrepreneur and I grew up in New York and that's like you know. The spirit of entrepreneurship is there, you know, And I was in business school. In fact, in college, I had no plans to become a lawyer And in fact, my dad used to say, like it doesn't matter what you get, a degree in business would be the best one, but you're going to work for yourself, So it doesn't really matter.

Chris Lalomia:

Really So your dad and your mom were really pushing you on the entrepreneurial. I mean, even as you're growing up in high school college, you're thinking I'm doing my own thing anyway 100%.

Jennifer Gore:

I used to go to work with my dad.

Chris Lalomia:

Now, what did he do?

Jennifer Gore:

So he's a serial entrepreneur. So he had a lot of different businesses over the years. When I was a kid he started his first business when he was 18. And he didn't even go to call. I mean, he tells me he went to college for a semester but he got kicked out. But then he just started his own business when he was 18 and he started a commercial cleaning company And he lived at home and he became really successful where he was one of the bigger guys in the market And then he got into tons of other businesses. So he got into real estate. I remember he had a pager company, he had a travel agency. He had a lot of different businesses, but there's the few that I think became the most successful And then he retired at 43.

Chris Lalomia:

Oh yeah, retired at 43. Boy, that's a little younger than us.

Alan Wyatt:

Alan, I was going to say I started my business at 47. I hope I can retire when I'm 43.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, So this is my This ship has sailed, mo, this ship has sailed, oh my God.

Jennifer Gore:

He liquidated all of his businesses. At that time he had been in business for 22 years or whatever. He liquidated all of his businesses into real estate only So he had bought an apartment building when we were like when I was I don't know 12 or I don't remember what age. And then you know he was really smart with how he ran apartment buildings And he ended up liking that business the most. So he was able to live off of all the passive income of his rentals And he just didn't want to live in New York anymore, so he moved to Florida.

Chris Lalomia:

Oh boy, so did you grow up in New York.

Jennifer Gore:

You stayed I grew up in New York. My senior year of high school he retired and moved to Florida. So, did you stay?

Alan Wyatt:

or finish in Florida.

Jennifer Gore:

I was forced to go to Florida for one year.

Chris Lalomia:

No way, Oh wow.

Jennifer Gore:

I'm the oldest.

Chris Lalomia:

You're the oldest, all right, and so I guess the younger ones have to be brothers.

Jennifer Gore:

All sisters.

Chris Lalomia:

All girls, And so he stuck it to the oldest girl.

Jennifer Gore:

So no, he just was like it actually had to happen. You know, my whole life he's like, he's one of those people who's never happy. So he was always wanting to move to Florida And so it just happened to work out where he sold our house three weeks before 9-11. Oh, wow We moved to Florida three weeks before 9-11. I don't know how he waited. We could have sold that house, just because of the events that later took place.

Chris Lalomia:

Wow.

Jennifer Gore:

But, it was good. It forced me out of my comfort zone. I was really pissed when it happened.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, i can only imagine the teenage art. If I would have done that to my daughter, i would recommend it.

Alan Wyatt:

I'm sure listeners could see just the fiery look in her eyes.

Jennifer Gore:

Right.

Alan Wyatt:

I'm imagining myself as a jury right now and I'm just withering.

Chris Lalomia:

As a proud father of a 24-year-old daughter If I would have done that to her in Ellen.

Alan Wyatt:

Ozer, it would be more than do better.

Chris Lalomia:

Oh, it would have gotten a lot more than do better.

Jennifer Gore:

Well, i left, i would have been sleeping with one, i opened. Here's the deal I left as soon as I graduated. I went back to college in New York.

Chris Lalomia:

So you went back up. Yeah, Where'd you go to school?

Jennifer Gore:

In not too far from where I'm originally from. So I was like, okay, you guys can go to Florida, I'm going back.

Chris Lalomia:

All right, that was your rebellious. Oh, it was very rebellious.

Jennifer Gore:

I was very rebellious. As much as I love my dad, i mean I was a very independent spirited kid. I mean I drove my parents absolutely insane.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, i can only tell. How'd you end up in Georgia?

Jennifer Gore:

So I lived in New York for a while. I went to college there And I then started my life as an adult in New York and it was very challenging. I mean, a lot of bad things happened to me in New York. I was in a really bad car accident. My boyfriend that I had broken up with but was with for a long time died in a motorcycle accident. My employer stole my identity and I was sued for over a hundred grand, and so all this stuff. I had to hire a bunch of lawyers and I was like I feel like the universe wants me to be a lawyer and I really at that point wasn't set on what type of business I was gonna have. I just knew I wanted to have my own business.

Chris Lalomia:

I was thinking, actually the universe was telling you to be a country singer, right? Yeah, oh my god. I mean, do you hear those three life events that happened? and by the time she was what? 24, 25?

Alan Wyatt:

21, 21. My boss told my identity isn't very catchy tune though, chris, it's not no.

Jennifer Gore:

I can't be sure I could see this being a country song, right I?

Chris Lalomia:

think so. I think, luke Combs, we got something, huh. We could do that. Or, chris Jansen, buy me a boat.

Jennifer Gore:

It was not fun. And I think that a lot of entrepreneurs or people that are successful, it's because you had, like, gone through something kind of bad, like because you kind of have to be resilient to be an entrepreneur. I have a motivator.

Chris Lalomia:

There's a golden nugget right there. I think every we talked about this work. You know the entrepreneur. It sounds sexy, it sounds awesome. Right, it's hard, but it is man. It is hard, right, i mean, you could see it right in your eyes, but you have to be resilient and you prove resilience early on and you had this. So all this happens to you in New York and you didn't have that family network.

Jennifer Gore:

You know My parents as much. So My dad was successful, but he was kind of old school and I'm so grateful for this now. Like you know, he made me get a job when I was 14. We had money, but he would always tell me, like my money ain't your money.

Alan Wyatt:

Whoa.

Chris Lalomia:

Something there, Chris? No, you know, actually that's what my daughter says to me. She's 24 and she's back here. No, i keep joking about that, but yeah.

Jennifer Gore:

well, there you go, my money, your money and my dad say, like whatever you do is gonna be on you. My greatest fear for you is you're not gonna do as well as I did, and so he always set that into my mind, like I better Like understand, like.

Alan Wyatt:

I gotta work. That's lower than boom on you Wow.

Jennifer Gore:

Yeah, and you know that's.

Alan Wyatt:

New York love. Right there He would. He would also New York love.

Jennifer Gore:

Yes, he would also say things, though, like you know, you could do anything, you could be, you could be an Olympian, you could be the president, like he always thought I could do Anything, which made me think I can do anything right.

Chris Lalomia:

So it's still so. I think there are two great lessons there that I talk about with my kids too, and, by the way, one of my children want to be a lawyer. I can't stop, but.

Jennifer Gore:

Be good for you.

Alan Wyatt:

Actually there, chris, there's a lot.

Chris Lalomia:

There's a lot. Well, actually it's gonna be very good for me because Driving home from the brave scheme last night I'm glad I had my lawyer son with me or not yet, but but it would know I was not driving drunk, i was fine, i didn't drink.

Alan Wyatt:

Your son was in the car with you in case you got pulled over.

Jennifer Gore:

Yeah, it's like having a protector, that's what I got.

Chris Lalomia:

Hey, when I, when, when I'm riding with Troy, i'm like right and you were grasping at straws.

Alan Wyatt:

Hey, he hasn't even gone to law school.

Jennifer Gore:

I know how well you'll feel better when he has a JD.

Chris Lalomia:

Ellen you, but you party with me enough, big boy you know the straws, straws or everything I grass for.

Chris Lalomia:

So here we go. All right, so back to. But I think there there are two great life lessons there. You know, the father said you know, you got to be on your own two feet, you got to be accountable. You're gonna be an independent, strong girl. But I believe in you and I believe that you can be anything. And I think that you could see it in her eyes too. And my parents were the same way. My mom was the you can do anything you want. My dad was like you better get your butt to work.

Jennifer Gore:

Work ethic. I think that's like one of the things we're missing today And it's just such a shame because I think if there's one skill you can like have, it's a work ethic, because you could do anything if you can work, i mean we just did this in training this morning.

Chris Lalomia:

We got ten things you could do that don't cost you a dime. Show up on time, do a good job, follow through, do your job.

Jennifer Gore:

I mean it's a professional. Yeah right, all this stuff, and we do this well over handyman, and so you hit on it, so you did it work ethic and in this market, if you have a work ethic, you will rise to the top, because it's unfortunately Just missing for so many people.

Alan Wyatt:

Yeah, by comparison, you're a star.

Jennifer Gore:

Yeah, i tell young people that all the time It's so easy to be successful right now. It's actually like the key trick right now is that when you see a lot of people out there that aren't playing all in, this is like a prime opportunity, like back in the day when everyone was working their ass off. It was hard to stand out, but now so easy to stand out.

Chris Lalomia:

How about that move right there?

Alan Wyatt:

She's a hundred percent right. It's ridiculous. I tell that to my sons all the time. I'm like you think it's you, versus how many ever billion people that are in the world. It's not, because all you have to do is just show up and be nice smile.

Chris Lalomia:

You know good eye contact that's not just a rocket you eliminated seven billion people right. Yeah so Alan asked that question. That's how we got here, and so we got some great gold nuggets out of that. You ended up in Georgia saying that was a great question. There's a good setup. Let's land the plane, shall we? how'd you get to Georgia?

Jennifer Gore:

I got to Georgia for law school.

Chris Lalomia:

So did you know anybody here?

Jennifer Gore:

No, but my dad had a friend that was from our town in Bikipsi and He had come to Georgia during like the 90s around when the Olympics were here, and he was another entrepreneur and he was really successful in Atlanta. So he I had looked at a couple other areas. In fact, i applied to multiple law schools and I did not get in In New York. And I applied to some schools in Florida and I did get into some in Florida, but I didn't want to live in Florida. My parents live there. I just didn't love it. And so Georgia to me felt, when we toured, like more of a city like New York, like it felt more like a city versus Florida and I wanted to be closer to my parents, after you know living away from them for so long. It was always flying back and forth So I thought Georgia was like a good middle ground, but I only knew one person here, but he was really successful. So nice.

Chris Lalomia:

So you, you came here, you got your law degree here in Georgia. You knew one person and, uh, that's exactly what I did. To give my master's degree, i went to North Carolina, at Charlotte, and I knew my aunts, parents.

Chris Lalomia:

That's all I knew and I could yeah, of course, and I've told the story before I could have gone to georgia tech, which is the fourth best engineering school in the nation, which I had no business getting into, but I got into. But no, i went to the UNC Charlotte and, including the lifelong bad decision debate of course I have a family here. No, I grew up in michigan originally.

Jennifer Gore:

So I think there's something for value to go out of where you're born 100%, i agree, and I making that move, i was the independent person too.

Chris Lalomia:

I was like you know, i'll do that. I put everything. I had an s10 blazer, including my motorcycle. Yeah, so think about that, i had my motorcycle in my s10 blazer and my food right and my clothes, and I'm driving down to see My aunts parents who I've never met in my life who said you can come stay with us, and they were southern raised and Bob caps and muriel caps were part of michigan.

Jennifer Gore:

Are you from?

Chris Lalomia:

I'm from jackson Middle and then I went to uh, I went to school up in the up. Where we get you know, yeah, so I can turn on you.

Jennifer Gore:

I mean, i've been to michigan a lot lately, actually, have you? yeah, one of my mentors is up there.

Chris Lalomia:

Well, as elwin knows, because he went to college or two, that is really god's country.

Jennifer Gore:

I never said great people from michigan organity.

Chris Lalomia:

I see michigan is that's the mother country. Uh, so I grew up there, but yeah.

Jennifer Gore:

I actually was just there, maybe a month ago, and we toured the original ford factory. And it was such a cool experience and we saw where the original first highway was And, um, we got a behind the scenes tour of them making all the raptors.

Chris Lalomia:

It was just so, that's way cooler than I got, uh. So I grew up making parts, uh, and so in high school I was working in a machine shop making parts for the automotive industry and I said at 17. That's what I'm going to do, right, i'm going to make parts.

Jennifer Gore:

I'm gonna, when I'm 35, i'm gonna have a 50 person machine shop making parts the automotive industry and that's what I'm gonna do there's such a like passion for Entrepreneurship there and for like the american ingenuity of ford embedded in that culture, which I was able to kind of really see manufacturing It's definitely that's all I knew systems, processes like the. That is what I took away from that trip. I'd have you been up there recently.

Chris Lalomia:

Well, so, uh, my wife's family is from up there. We met in charlotte, north carolina, but my wife's from an hour north of Detroit. I'm from 30 minutes west of Detroit. It's only an hour and a half away from each other, as it turns out.

Jennifer Gore:

but but you have family still up there.

Chris Lalomia:

I do Well actually, uh, my, my brother's over in kelma zoo portage. Now my dad splits time Between jackson and then her whole family is in north Detroit, which is gm country, by the way. So Detroit's even further split fords in the south. Then you get gm south in the north and then dodge is moved around the dodge brothers or everywhere. But it's fascinating country and and it's so crazy.

Jennifer Gore:

One of my Um mentors is mike morse, who is the largest PI firm in michigan.

Alan Wyatt:

Thank god, I don't know him.

Jennifer Gore:

Yeah. He might know you, chris, he's just he's up there, he's got like 170 employees and um, he's got like a thousand billboards or something.

Chris Lalomia:

Okay, so I grew up in jackson, which is called the prison city because that's where the state prison is. So I've often told people that's a joke Is that we moved there for my dad.

Jennifer Gore:

Hopefully for him to work there.

Chris Lalomia:

Right not to be incarcerated.

Jennifer Gore:

Okay, Yeah so, yeah, i love me, i love michigan, I've come to love it. I really knew nothing about it till I went up there. But Great people, really awesome people, yeah, so ellen went to.

Chris Lalomia:

Ellen grew up in oregon. He thinks oregon and the west coast is just the bomb to be all. Oh, my god, specific northwest blah blah, blah, blah blah. I lived out there for three years But, but he went to school in kelvin uh, in michigan.

Jennifer Gore:

But he chose to come to michigan, though.

Chris Lalomia:

That's right, baby, that was sent there He was sent there. All right, let's get back to you, jen. So you graduated, you, you're here and I went to night law school.

Jennifer Gore:

And you were working, working as a case manager, paralegal receptionist in a personal injury firm during the day.

Alan Wyatt:

Wow.

Jennifer Gore:

So I got accepted into the day program. But when they told me I couldn't work, that was anti, that was sacrilegious.

Alan Wyatt:

So so when you went to law school, were you thinking, because of your life experiences, to Immediately to go into the vertical that you're in absolutely Okay.

Chris Lalomia:

That was a key advantage, so like you knew right when you went to law school.

Jennifer Gore:

I'm just here to get the license. I know what I'm gonna do, girl.

Alan Wyatt:

I like you know how you've not Lawyers like she had a list I'm gonna get you when I get this degree.

Jennifer Gore:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I started the law from the day I got my license.

Chris Lalomia:

Really, you didn't go to work for anybody else.

Jennifer Gore:

I'd already been working people for four years, i don't know baby, i'm going down, i'm gonna go myself.

Chris Lalomia:

All right, did you build a business plan? Did you have the whole thing? you just said not screw this.

Jennifer Gore:

I'm gonna do this at that point I had been working in a couple different law firms and I Had The fortunate luck that I work for some people that let me do things They probably shouldn't let me do. So, um, i felt like, hey, if I'm doing all this, i can figure the rest out, you know.

Alan Wyatt:

But also, so that means no business plan.

Jennifer Gore:

Chris, I know I got that Yeah um, i mean, We can talk about the idea of a business plan. I obviously have one now, but I do think people Get really hung up on that when a business plan can be something super simple as something on a napkin.

Chris Lalomia:

You know All right, so I'm a big fan, but I do remember going to your office and we talked about this, because Your first business, your, your first company. So you go out there, you set up an LLC, you put the shingle out and the shingles name was the gore law firm, the gore law firm, really catchy. But she says no, she's already she.

Alan Wyatt:

There's a lot of marketing implications there. Wait for it. We will go. I didn't like it Well.

Jennifer Gore:

and the other thing is, you know, my name is technically gore cuthbert, because my maiden name was gore And, like I told you, my husband's parents took each other's names, So he had two last names cuthbert, pain. So when we got married I had the option to be gore, pain.

Alan Wyatt:

Oh, that would have been perfect. Can you see that on a billboard, chris? Oh, that's even better, come on.

Chris Lalomia:

I got marketing shit coming out of my ears right now. I gore pain. You go with me, gore pain.

Jennifer Gore:

I know I was thinking I could be a wrestler with that name.

Alan Wyatt:

God, can you imagine the other attorneys going? Pull my up against gore pain.

Jennifer Gore:

You know what I just?

Chris Lalomia:

it was a huge mistake, huge oh my god, that'd be hilarious and I would have hired the biggest mf, or I could find I'm like dude, you're just going in, what am I doing? You're gonna look pretty mr T You just go in, mr T, you just go, and here we are, gore pain.

Alan Wyatt:

Yes.

Jennifer Gore:

I mean it should win. It's it's a huge mistake?

Alan Wyatt:

What's the lawyers? It's not too late, jennifer.

Jennifer Gore:

You know I always thought as a marketer, nobody knows what the hell gore law firm does. I mean period, so Tradening.

Chris Lalomia:

I love that. I know it. You did, you did, you went trade name. All right, so we're gonna get back to the serious part. I gotta go back one more time. You want to settle? Yeah, i think we'll settle Yeah. I think you should or pain because it's coming Put about the top rope. What if it like the?

Jennifer Gore:

rest of my game after this interview today.

Chris Lalomia:

I got it. I think we already figured out how to market your firm. We'll put the mexican wrestler mask out there and the gore pay law firm john foyer. I'm coming for you.

Jennifer Gore:

You know it's a stronger my ass than the foy name. So right. I know, but I I didn't really want to live with that name on a day-to-day day baby.

Chris Lalomia:

All right, so You did was hard enough. Okay, let's just say that Fair enough.

Jennifer Gore:

We won't get into all the jokes that go with that name, or pain would have been pushing it. A guess tells me all the names he was called, but, um, i think a trade name. When you drive by the moor firm or the smith firm or whatever, no one knows what the hell they do, so period bingo, bingo, bongo.

Chris Lalomia:

That's why I remember that's uh when we met bingo, bingo. Yep baby. Hey, i'm on lord. Hey, how old am I call me charo. I'll be charo. Here we go Take a moment. Huh, please. No, we're gonna keep going. I'm on a roll.

Jennifer Gore:

Do you have a virtual drum?

Chris Lalomia:

I need one of those. I need we need more sound effects, don't we, ellen? You know what We we probably. So I do remember when I first met you, it was not Atlanta personal injury law, you, you were talking about your vision for your business. So you go into business, okay, maybe with or without a business plan. I'm a I'm a big fan of a business plan done the right way, not done for the a paper not done for the right.

Jennifer Gore:

People use as an excuse to never start their business.

Chris Lalomia:

I agree with that. A hundred percent and a great call.

Jennifer Gore:

Also, it's going to probably not work out how you originally mapped out and you got to be able to pivot.

Alan Wyatt:

It's a living document.

Chris Lalomia:

Yes, Yes, which is still in my office, in the red folder.

Alan Wyatt:

And, by the way, I'll say when's the last time you looked at it.

Chris Lalomia:

I looked at it last year. Good, but I didn't touch it. I mean I didn't update it, but I'm I'm.

Alan Wyatt:

I often said, you know I was gonna evaluate going for an you looked at it last year Like, oh, there's that damn business plan.

Chris Lalomia:

I know I looked at it last year. Like you know what I can bring that up in the podcast I keep bringing up It sounds so cool, right. It's like higher, higher, slow We're slowly higher higher higher fast fires. No, no the way. Yeah, we're slow fire, it doesn't matter, because I do the exact opposite. I'm like you know what Consulting? you shove it because in my business Can you breathe it, can you fog a mirror and you're not on meth. Let's go. Well, and also you can have that mentality in certain labor markets.

Jennifer Gore:

I mean you can't have higher slow when it's a really tight market for hiring. I mean you'll, you'll miss all the candidates.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, my business plan did say I was gonna hear the best candidate possible. The whole thing was like you just scratched through that.

Jennifer Gore:

Oh, the whole. Thing.

Chris Lalomia:

I mean, my original interview tactics were all based on my consulting background, which is behavioral interviewing. Right, i'm hiring for a handyman. Tell me about a time. Oh yeah, right, and let's pull that thread and let's keep going and these guys would tell you everything, right, and you bring them out there. You're like do you even know which end is the hammer?

Jennifer Gore:

and so you didn't hire for skill.

Chris Lalomia:

Oh, my god. So then and I'm pretty handy, so here's how my hiring process went is that I go meet them somewhere. If they actually look the part and could show up the next Morning they worked with me. And if I could see that they could work, then I go Okay, we got something to work with. And that's today to this day. We do all that, and then they come in for culture training with me. So the guy who's building my deck Oh, the guys are building your deck have been with me for 10 years.

Jennifer Gore:

Okay, yeah, but that's how it started, but he's not on math, not today, okay, i can't see tomorrow, though, cuz I'm telling you that my dad always tells me oh, you have no idea how hard it is to run a business, because you got Administrative, you have lawyers, you have professionals. He's like I had the bottom of the barrel. I had people that were just got out of jail, you know, because a lot of businesses, you know it's a different market. I mean, he was hiring cleaners.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, that's you know business. It's all up and on the board. It's still the same pain, it's just a different, it's a different issues in different types of people you're hiring. All right. So so as you went to scale, i I always I like I said I went to talk to you and we were meeting where starting to talk about the business, and I could see that you were very thoughtful about the scaling part, as you thought about your scaling. How are you thinking about that?

Jennifer Gore:

So when we got the trade name, i was shocked that it was available, but we were that is a really good point. We were probably the one of the first firms to do it, because we found a loophole. You really weren't supposed to do it.

Alan Wyatt:

What do you mean?

Jennifer Gore:

You were supposed to have your last name in your name, in your business name as a lawyer.

Chris Lalomia:

What.

Alan Wyatt:

Yeah, is that a rule? that was back to gore pain.

Jennifer Gore:

Yeah, yeah. so So we found, i found a loophole, and basically then I had a fight with a bunch of lawyers that kept reporting me to the bar For doing this trade name.

Alan Wyatt:

No, shit, yeah, really No it was like did you take them down?

Jennifer Gore:

Oh, I knew I only had to deal with the bar and I knew that I had the loophole.

Chris Lalomia:

So all right, so let's go back to the script. The rule is you have to have your name in the law firm.

Jennifer Gore:

Yeah, they don't want lawyers to have businesses where you don't know who owns a law firm.

Chris Lalomia:

Well, Morgan and Morgan isn't doing shit in Atlanta. I mean that, yeah, but just you know, I'm like I mean talk about French. This is Chris talk.

Alan Wyatt:

I mean they're on Florida man. So for Morgan.

Chris Lalomia:

And Morgan are the owner, oh right, So here's what we're gonna do We're gonna start the gore pain law firm. We're just gonna break it, we're gonna break it. You can't do that, so that's another rule.

Jennifer Gore:

You can't do those rules that you can't do a name That makes you look like a law firm if you're not a lawyer, yeah, that's. And then there's another rule that says you can't use someone else's name if it's not your name as a lawyer.

Alan Wyatt:

So if we set up your, pain isn't that insane. And then, just every case we get, we just give Jennifer. Doesn't that work? Well, i don't know. But but can we still wear the?

Chris Lalomia:

Mexican mask to come in? Yes, you can. That's all I really want to do.

Jennifer Gore:

I mean, you can't risk losing a license, though you know that's right.

Chris Lalomia:

So, oh my god, you know I this, this goes. I'm listening to the Benjamin Franklin book, the Isaacson, on a biography on him, and he does a great job. It's amazing what this guy did, but it just shows you how many of ours the stuff that here today was here 250 years ago, not 200. 100%. Yeah, so there.

Jennifer Gore:

So alright so one thing that I do find annoying about Being a lawyer and owning a law business which is what you guys kind of just hit on is there's a lot of lawyer rules that Inhibits some of the things we might do as business people. So you can't cold call you can't cold call.

Alan Wyatt:

Oh, that's why you have the billboards.

Jennifer Gore:

That's your cult. That's why you see what you see, because lawyers are prevented under ethical rules from calling people. But can you imagine if you just mentioned to someone casually, you're thinking about getting a divorce.

Alan Wyatt:

Or.

Jennifer Gore:

I just got 500 lawyers cold calling you.

Chris Lalomia:

Okay, i see that, but but how about? okay, they could go bad, but but but you get an accent. They call me ambulance chasers, right That's? I mean, that's the bad way of saying personal, that's kind of a misnomer.

Jennifer Gore:

I mean that doesn't really happen. I mean there are some lawyers out there doing some really it on ethical things, even though there's rules against it. But you would be very turned off if someone in your family died and you had a probate or a will's attorney calling you around the clock When you're grieving saying I want to, i want to probe at the estate. I want to probe at the estate. Like the ideas, these are sensitive matters and people should be the one to initiate the contact for the legal services.

Chris Lalomia:

But she's got this down and this is why her marketing, because we're gonna get into this in a minute.

Alan Wyatt:

So every once in a while, the government does do something sketchy. No, i was gonna say actually I'm actually 99% of the time, but I'm actually kind of thankful for that because he's happy that we were not allowed to call Yeah well, and so I used to be in franchising, for example, and you don't want door-to-door lawyers.

Alan Wyatt:

No, and back in the day, in franchising you could just promise the world, and it was a complete load of crap. And so the government stepped in. And I'm not a big government guy, but just every once in a while they do something right, you're certain something they're looking at you on that, wow lawyers that wrote these rules, and Sometimes I think that it's just people that are not really business people that wrote some of these rules.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, i agree, is it? it's definitely anti-business. I mean, looking back at seeing it now, you're right And but anti-business if you said, hey, if I just casually told my neighbor that I need I had a leak in the house And a handyman to come help fix And but, but I've got a lot of cold call you. I'm like, hey, i heard your neighbor. You're probably not grieving Oh.

Alan Wyatt:

You know, I mean, I know it's bad. There's a.

Chris Lalomia:

Grieving. See there, there's the reason I'm in my business because nobody's gonna die with the shit I'm doing. That's why I picked this up. I mean I'll fix it you know.

Jennifer Gore:

So there is that. And then the best way to refer someone if they were in that situation, is say, hey, my friend mentioned they needed a divorce. You say, hey, do you want me to send you to a lawyer? and then use three-way email the lawyer and the person. Then that opens up. You know The person's now agreed to kind of be contacted.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, that's cool.

Jennifer Gore:

But it is a barrier, for this is why lawyers have to be so outrageously aggressive in their marketing, because we can't cold call All right, so let's talk about this outrageously aggressive.

Alan Wyatt:

Yeah, and it is disgusting, all right, it's crazy right.

Chris Lalomia:

But let's go back to small businesses, right, and so I'm in the handyman business. I, when we say outrageously aggressive, how much is Morgan and Morgan, how much is I? picked the biggest East. I only know the guys on the East Coast Morgan, morgan, john Foy, he's here in Atlanta.

Jennifer Gore:

Nugent.

Chris Lalomia:

Nugent, who's in here in Atlanta and, by the way, was it lived by neighborhood?

Jennifer Gore:

There you go.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, well, i mean I keep good company, all right, who's the other big ones?

Jennifer Gore:

The first baiter shouldn't talk about our competition.

Alan Wyatt:

No, I mean.

Jennifer Gore:

Listen, there's a lot of big law firms here in Atlanta. There's in any of the bigger cities There's a lot of big law firms.

Chris Lalomia:

I didn't mean they suck. Don't come after me. Everybody put your you, you might sue you now put your 500 lawyers back in your pocket, because I know how many he's already said, john Morgan He did not say that, all right, but here's let's talk about So, because I do.

Chris Lalomia:

I have a little inside knowledge on this. So let's talk about marketing budgets. Right, we have revenues, we have marketing budgets. We all have to set a percentage for what we want to do and where our marketing goes. In any business We are whether you're hanging out a shingle to produce ham sandwiches, handyman businesses or law firms How much are you putting? and you can do percentages. I don't want to give all the stuff away. How much do you do in marketing every month?

Jennifer Gore:

So we are spending between 25 and 30 percent.

Chris Lalomia:

Okay, how much do we think Morgan and Morgan and all these other guys are doing?

Jennifer Gore:

well actually. So if you do the analysis on this, it depends on what level of growth you're in. So if you're in a high growth mode, you're gonna spend more. Traditionally, a lot of people in my industry are trying to spend 20% or less. But if you really want to push, you're gonna go 25 30. When you get bigger, you have more scales of economy, right. So If you're in a more, like you know, we're trying to grow at 100% a year and I don't think John Morgan is growing at that rate. He's growing pretty fast, but I don't think he's growing doubling, you know. So the percentages look higher when you're in a high growth mode. Yeah, shoot, i'm saying yeah, so she's definitely.

Chris Lalomia:

I mean that's high, it's high spend. I mean, so just put that away. Right, if you're in home service business, you're listening to this or you think you're like, all right, but dude, i'm gonna do $500,000 this year in gross revenue. You're telling me to put 20 25% away, not?

Chris Lalomia:

in our business, but if you want to double and you want to be in the business that that Jen has gone into? The answer is yes, and she's not talking about a million, bro. She's talking about a lot more than that And we don't have to talk about numbers. We know you to get into that. But the point is People always ask that you're like, hey, what's your gross profit? Oh, you know How much should you spend, and everybody uses these numbers. And then when you throw out a number, especially in some stupid Facebook group, and these guys just absolutely a sale.

Jennifer Gore:

You totally different markets.

Chris Lalomia:

It totally different markets, totally different businesses and they just absolutely a sale. You're like, dude, you don't even know what I'm doing like especially in the handyman. I'm up against one and two guy handyman's you know The in these Facebook groups and like, what do you spend? I'm like I spend right now I'm gonna be four and a half percent this year.

Jennifer Gore:

You're spending more or not percent.

Alan Wyatt:

I want to like cry, i know, i know and I'm thinking about spending this huge amount of money And, if I'm not mistaken, sometimes you take on cases where, if you don't win, no, all of our cases are.

Jennifer Gore:

We fund them until we win right, so contingency high risk.

Alan Wyatt:

You've got that high risk. Yeah, bro, Yeah actually. Chris is breaking out in a beat of sweat. I am too.

Jennifer Gore:

This business model is not for the same part, So this so then I'm thinking about.

Alan Wyatt:

You're spending 25, 30%. You may not make a dime on the thing. You may actually spend a ton of money. So this puts a ton of pressure on whoever answers your phone.

Jennifer Gore:

We have an entire intake team, 24, seven. We have an intake manager. We have multiple people. There's a whole, but they got to be good, all right.

Chris Lalomia:

So let's talk about that. So you spend that because I wanted to get to this, because that's what's cool about this is that I don't care what business you're in. She said 20, 25%. I said four and a half. She goes. I want to cry. No, don't cry, because my average ticket is $3,000. So it's small.

Jennifer Gore:

You're the overall service. Yeah, yeah.

Chris Lalomia:

So it's, it's gross revenue. So so you spend the money, you go out there and you find it, but you're not doing billboards.

Jennifer Gore:

I've been I have a couple billboards.

Chris Lalomia:

I've seen it. I've seen one.

Jennifer Gore:

Yeah, I have a couple, But you know it's so saturated here in.

Chris Lalomia:

Atlanta. And so what are you doing to penetrate in a different way? Because I've seen some really cool things that you're doing.

Jennifer Gore:

So we do a lot of different things. We probably have 22 different marketing channels, so I always think it's good to be diversified. We are really big on social media. If that's one of the things you're talking about, we do a video every day, if not to. We do a lot of ads with social media, organic stuff, we do SEO, we do pay per click, we do newsletter. We do an entire back what we call back.

Chris Lalomia:

She's doing what I'm talking about. This is where you get smart. So she says, oh my God, I'm spending a ton. All right, those guys are spending way more tons, right, But they're doing. they're doing advertising, right, They're on the TV, they're on the radio. You don't see your much on the radio. You don't see your much on the TV. I will tell you, of course, I'm in Jen's universe so I get a lot of stuff, But I will tell you I'm not looking for personal injury law at all.

Alan Wyatt:

Well.

Chris Lalomia:

I don't think I don't think anybody is.

Alan Wyatt:

until it happens, you need it.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, however, here's what I get. Here's what I get. I get a little bit of her personally and her personality. Okay, so I get to know her, but I've already known her personally. But I'm watching like being the guy looking for the outside. I see her personally.

Jennifer Gore:

On social media, you mean.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, i see the. I see the group she's growing. I see her promoting one of her lawyers that is just doing the firm. I see her doing that. Then I get her newsletter in my email. Do I look at her newsletter? Well, fuck, no, because I'm busy.

Jennifer Gore:

I'm just staying top of my mind, but you expect us to look at your newsletter.

Alan Wyatt:

I well, you all better be looking at my, my newsletter is awesome, but it's like the velvet hammer.

Jennifer Gore:

It's just many small touches small touches.

Chris Lalomia:

So I see her newsletter and then and then I go out. you know a little bit of a little bit of social media, a little bit of this. So she's talked about 22 marketing channels. You can't wrap your head around that, people, You can't do that. You can't even think of 22 marketing channels Yeah.

Jennifer Gore:

I mean, and if you have a heavy referral business, which we also started the whole business on referrals and I think we shouldn't ever get away from that, even when we do advertising, because some of your best business comes from referrals you should have a systematic way of keeping in touch with your referrals, thanking your referrals, because for us, our current clients also refer us a lot of business and our past clients, So once their case is over, we really don't see them again. Similar to you, you might have a project And how do you maintain top of mind awareness, Because once that deck is built, when are you going to see them again?

Jennifer Gore:

And so we have newsletter, but we also have. You can cold call your prior clients.

Chris Lalomia:

So I can actually I can do Oh okay, oh, lawyers can do.

Jennifer Gore:

Because we already established a relationship.

Chris Lalomia:

Let me tell you one of the best things I do. I like to stalk them. I just like park right in front of their driveway and they're getting out in the morning to get the kids out. I'm like, oh hey, i didn't know you guys were here. Well, your truck's right in my way. I'm like, oh hey no, I'm kidding.

Alan Wyatt:

Chris can throw a brick through your window and then send you a flyer, Actually.

Chris Lalomia:

I got a better one, Ellen.

Alan Wyatt:

Oh, that's funny.

Chris Lalomia:

I've lived on a golf course for 22 years.

Jennifer Gore:

Throw golf balls.

Chris Lalomia:

Check this out. I have never in my memory hit a window. I played last Thursday.

Jennifer Gore:

You hit somebody's window Right through the window.

Chris Lalomia:

I come up and they are yelling at me.

Jennifer Gore:

You're like, but I can fix it, that's right.

Chris Lalomia:

No, they're yelling at me. How could you have done this? I finally looked at them and said because I'm a shitty golfer.

Jennifer Gore:

Honestly.

Chris Lalomia:

I mean, i mean seriously they're yelling at me. I'm like I'll get this fixed. And I did. We had a fixed on two days later, but it was so funny That's the first window I broke.

Alan Wyatt:

So if I knew, i would just be spraying wildly off the tee every day.

Chris Lalomia:

So here's one more story. So I played a charity golf bet. Right, i'm playing with these guys They're one and minus two handicaps, which means they're really good golfers and me, because my buddy says hey, you know, you sponsored the event, would you want?

Alan Wyatt:

to play these. Well, you can help. I did. You helped play the handicapped a little bit And I did, well, i did.

Chris Lalomia:

What did you mean about that? But I mean, obviously I paid a ton of money for the tournament for Chila, for Children's Health Care of Atlanta which you know, I'm a big fan of Big fan. Yeah, you can. Yeah, they do a great job. You do that. So I get to play with these guys. But I'm playing. So I'm playing with these young guys and I'm old and I hit the ball and it goes right. It's not the slice, it's the whole pie.

Jennifer Gore:

Did you see it all the way through? I'm seeing that movie with Sinbad. He's playing golf.

Chris Lalomia:

I don't remember that one.

Jennifer Gore:

The 90s, Oh my God.

Alan Wyatt:

I don't know. Did you see it go through the glass or did you just hear it?

Chris Lalomia:

So just what happened last Thursday? I had no clue. I had never hit a ball so far left in my home course in my life.

Alan Wyatt:

People like kind of like laugh, or were they shocked, or Usually, when one goes off the tee like that, everybody just cringes and you wait for the sound.

Chris Lalomia:

So everybody puts their head down Yeah, but when I'm playing this tournament two years ago, i hit this ball and I slice and it goes off And the guy it was just off the fairway. And the guy says so you know trying to, he's a young guy and he doesn't know who I am. And he says so what do you do? I said why have a home repair business? He goes oh, so you do these golf tournaments drone business right after.

Chris Lalomia:

I knocked off some of the guys' roof right. I'm like, seriously, you're asking me right now He goes. I don't mean like that. I'm like don't worry, bud, i got you, but no, this glass shot. this thing was a rocket, i mean.

Jennifer Gore:

I can hit the ball hard. I would be happy if they had the skill to fix it.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, well, they were definitely not?

Alan Wyatt:

Did you just tell them what the hell you doing? buying a house on a golf course? So here's why is your house here? They're out there yelling at me, right?

Chris Lalomia:

Please Out there yelling at me Here's the best part, and so my name obviously is Chris, because you're listening to my podcast and my playing partner comes up and goes Hey Bill, i'll see you up there, go ahead and change the names out with them. I'm not going to do it, so I did My parents live on a golf course and like there's.

Jennifer Gore:

they tell me all the time all parts of their house gets damaged, like their air conditioner, like I think it kind of comes with the territory.

Chris Lalomia:

It does I. so I live in a golf course. There's a reason I don't live on a golf course because I was not going to put my kids in bike helmets out there.

Alan Wyatt:

No, you're not going to be behind the T box to be on a golf course.

Jennifer Gore:

Oh yeah, there's no way I have no desire to be on my in-laws. They have those lanai things.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, but still it doesn't matter, i can, i can knock through that. So, jen, tell your, tell your dad that I could play their course.

Jennifer Gore:

You're a danger.

Chris Lalomia:

Get out the way.

Alan Wyatt:

Yeah, my, my in-laws live on a golf course and I mean they are.

Chris Lalomia:

I don't care if you got a daughter's personal injury lawyer, it ain't going down because you can't find me in the head. I know, see, i don't do that. I'm supposed to play tomorrow afternoon.

Alan Wyatt:

My in-laws live on a golf course and I mean they are dead right off the tee and they're dead right. They said right. No, but I mean not like out and right, they are dead right Yeah. I mean, it's like a shank off of the with the driver, and their backyards are littered with golf balls, and their front yard too, and I'm like even though how you can hit that shot of like a hundred golf balls, Yeah.

Jennifer Gore:

You was want these.

Chris Lalomia:

You know, what's so funny is, i think, when I first started playing and so I grew up playing on public courses I've, and so here's the hard part. I've been playing since I was seven and I did I expect every once in a while.

Alan Wyatt:

Thank you, do better, do better.

Jennifer Gore:

Do better.

Alan Wyatt:

So I have a serious business question, go All right. So you started. You had all these personal experiences. This is driving me to be a lawyer. And then you get your first cases and it's you in the courtroom and now you're a big deal, kind of a big deal?

Jennifer Gore:

No, you're not a big deal at that point.

Alan Wyatt:

But you got. You got to look at. These flips are here.

Jennifer Gore:

No, okay, i'm like a big. I was thinking you were going to say something else. Now you're terrified. You got this staff, so I didn't have a staff at the beginning.

Alan Wyatt:

But you've got a big business now and you've got 22 channels of marketing. How much time are you spending running your business versus practicing law?

Jennifer Gore:

80% running the business.

Alan Wyatt:

Nice. So what? it just doesn't just have to be like a really juicy case for you to show up in the courtroom.

Jennifer Gore:

No, i mean, I'm the managing attorney. I would like to eventually hire a managing attorney, but I have other lawyers that work there and I sit with them and we strategize on their cases and we round table a lot of cases with all the lawyers in the law firm. But it's better, you get better results when you have more lawyers.

Chris Lalomia:

So many lawyers you have now Five And how many assistance paralegals?

Jennifer Gore:

We have like a total of 38 people.

Chris Lalomia:

Oh my gosh, look at that.

Jennifer Gore:

I got 144.

Chris Lalomia:

She's got me.

Jennifer Gore:

Wow, Well, no, I have about. I'm saying 38. So five of them are lawyers.

Chris Lalomia:

Five lawyers, and then reals Arminians. Well, not minions.

Jennifer Gore:

No, there's a main. I call like an Allen.

Chris Lalomia:

We're trying to build skills up here, people. I don't think everybody has to go to school anymore. I just get insane. We're actually sponsoring the skills USA thing this year in Nari, and so I'm going to be part of that. I, especially today. I think a lot of kids just need to go to trade school.

Jennifer Gore:

Yeah, we're seeing that trend, actually a lot less people wanting to go to college. But I have other people. Other, the lawyers are not like the leadership in the firm. They are, you know, leaders. But we have an entire C suite, So we have a COO.

Chris Lalomia:

She has run the thing like a business bro. You know serious business. Listen to this, though. Right, she's not just a lawyer who just kind of backed her way in. So back to the E-Meth. You know the even.

Jennifer Gore:

I love that book Right.

Chris Lalomia:

So if you ever fancy yourself the perfect technician you have not I can tell You're not the best lawyer. I don't love to practice law.

Jennifer Gore:

You know I the crazy thing is I'm a really, really amazing lawyer, But it's because I'm very relentless And if you give me anything I'll master it. I'm amazing negotiator. I'm really good with the clients because I have been in the position of the client myself and you know I've been the person that's grieved, someone who's lost. I think I bring that to the table where a lot of lawyers really don't understand. This is not just a case, This is someone's life And I bring like that compassion and sometimes they bring me in for that.

Jennifer Gore:

Some of the stuff I don't love about being a lawyer is some of the really technical stuff. Like there's aspects of lawyering where you can win on a technicality if you know the rules well enough. Those are not my favorite parts of being a lawyer, but they're needed. Like you can have a case where you can have terrible facts and you can basically get some of that evidence excluded. That's like a tricky way to win cases, you know, And I think there's lawyers that work for me that are much better at that than me, But I am a really good lawyer. It's just I always knew there's only like a level of scalability to being the technician.

Chris Lalomia:

I agree with that. I think what she said was awesome because I'm going to jump in because I can practice law, i know law, i can compare somebody and they say something. I can go bullshit, exactly Right. And you can't fake me, right. If you want to prove it to me, you can do it. But I can go back to running my business and I can divorce myself from being in your business as long as you can tell me you know how to run your business. That's huge.

Jennifer Gore:

But the other thing is I'm very open to people coming to work for me that are much smarter lawyers than me, like I would love that. I want that. I seek that actually. That's like something I'm working on right now.

Alan Wyatt:

That's a rare quality in the leader.

Jennifer Gore:

I want people that are smarter than me. I want people that are. I would take a lawyer that's been working for 20 years that could look at me when you're saying that. You know. Alan School me on something I would too because they're going to be horrible business people. I don't even.

Chris Lalomia:

They'll be great lawyers.

Jennifer Gore:

I just want them to be a great lawyer.

Chris Lalomia:

Because have you ever met somebody who just really loves the law?

Jennifer Gore:

Well, think about this To be a great lawyer, you have to be really good at running through all the scenarios of risk, and I'm a risk taker, so I look before I like I will leap. A lot of lawyers are not geared to be risk takers, right? So the skills that it takes to be a great entrepreneur are typically not the skills it takes to be a great lawyer. It's just the nature of it.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, all right, now, alan you can ask a question.

Alan Wyatt:

That's really interesting. Well, I'm just thinking of the 80-20 thing and the Pareto principle. Yeah Well, do you kind of wish it weren't skewed that much towards running your business, or you.

Jennifer Gore:

No, I love the running the business parts. That's my favorite part.

Alan Wyatt:

So the 20% keeps you sharp though.

Jennifer Gore:

Yeah, and, like I said, i think I have to be nimble and adaptable, and there's times when I have to do more than that and there's times when you lose a lawyer and then I got to take on their caseload. I always want to be able to provide the services that my business does, but my highest and best use is being the CEO.

Alan Wyatt:

There you go. Is your dad still alive?

Jennifer Gore:

Yeah.

Alan Wyatt:

What does he think of you now?

Jennifer Gore:

He keeps asking me why I don't have a private plane yet.

Alan Wyatt:

No, never good enough court.

Jennifer Gore:

I took him. I got sworn into the United States Supreme Court. All right, let's talk about that for me.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, that was this one in the Supreme Court.

Jennifer Gore:

You know how few lawyers do that It's hard to get right Yeah.

Chris Lalomia:

So let me brag for you. That's pretty cool, right? I don't know, i don't know what. so to become to the? so there's law, there's law, and then there's law, and then one, two, three, right?

Jennifer Gore:

So you have to be to get sworn into the United States Supreme Court in DC where the Supreme Court justices are presiding.

Jennifer Gore:

you have to be in good standing in your State and you have to be a lawyer for a certain number of years and you have to get other lawyers to sponsor you, which was actually easy because I was the alumni president of my law school, so I had a lot of connections and You know I met all the criteria and so in December it was so cool I got to go to DC and You know, beautiful time of the year, the holiday season, and we got to sit with all the Supreme Court justices and hear in our hear case and you know we were like three feet away from all of those iconic people and took my dad and he was like crying and he was really excited and He was more excited than me, i feel. but I Did that last year and I also took him to the ink 5000, which was really cool because he had never been to the award ceremony. So when we went to the ink 5000, You had to fly commercial.

Jennifer Gore:

Well, we flew first class, but yeah, i love that so.

Chris Lalomia:

So I don't know about you, jen, but I'm a proud man and I can also tell you that I've also been through therapy, and Clare piss is still not sure why.

Jennifer Gore:

I can't understand why I don't need my dad's approval, because my dad has always said that You know great job great, but do you find that your dad begs to you about you to other people, but never would say that?

Chris Lalomia:

to you, right, jen? Let me help you.

Jennifer Gore:

Yes, i know he is, i know he does He's telling me that they're like your dad's the one of you.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, so I'm supremely proud of my daughter, but I will never tell her that, not until he's recently told me like I've done a lot of personal development stuff too.

Jennifer Gore:

I think it's really critical to continually do personal development as an entrepreneur because you have to to continue growing and there all this stuff. But I Am in a good place with my dad, but there was like two years where I didn't talk to him.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, that's not cool. I and but, but I get you and I know what you're doing.

Jennifer Gore:

There's sometimes you have to reestablish your adult relationship with your parents, especially if they've pushed you on your own terms, and I think that that's healthy, you know.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, i've been very blessed actually, and I say blessed and I hate it when people say that, but but my parents were there, very faith-based Catholic people, and they helped me a ton and but you know, i've had a wrestle with a lot of demons In my entire life and and end up in Ellen. I've talked about this. But, you have to be an adult and sometimes I had to go to therapy.

Jennifer Gore:

Listen, I did. I've gotten to the place where I think pressure is a privilege And I think that everything that my parents, you know, did or didn't do, or whatever It created me to who I am, and I wouldn't have this mentality if I wasn't. Like diamonds aren't created under you know I.

Alan Wyatt:

Hear you.

Chris Lalomia:

I think she just named this podcast diamonds are created under pressure No pressure is a privilege, pressure is a friggin privilege. All right, Michael, knock that down. Pressure is a privilege. All right guys. And I can't even say it because we're coming to the end. I hate this because that was so quick. I know right, we're having so much fun and we're digging in and we're about to which much start to get into the therapy.

Jennifer Gore:

We'll go yeah, we don't need to get it, but I just think it is good to know that, like you're saying, you Have all this ambition but you also have the dark side to it.

Chris Lalomia:

I do, yeah, no, that's. That's something I didn't learn until late in life and I had to figure it out. That's for sure and that's something I will share with all everybody out there. You know It's. It's hard to to deal with what you're doing. You think you're doing the right thing, you start your business, you do it and you're just driving so hard and I am. I Swear to God, if there was an obstacle in front of me, i tried to figure out 1,000 percent a way to go, drive right through it, and I had to do that. And and Therapy helped me with a lot of things my relationships, my family 100% because you can't be that person all the time with your family.

Chris Lalomia:

You can't right, right you drive everyone crazy. I guess you.

Alan Wyatt:

Chris looks at me as.

Chris Lalomia:

Alan knows me way too well and he's heard the story and and yes, we're doing this today. We're doing this from my basement, overlooking the beautiful pool that we have, but That was always. That was not always there and we did not always have a beautiful relationship with us. So we do it, so we roll through it. All right, let's go. We got started. We go to the four last questions, don't we?

Alan Wyatt:

I think we need to set up another appointment with your therapist.

Chris Lalomia:

You know yeah, but then four questions. All right, four questions. Yep, jen You, you read a lot of books. What is the favorite book? you would refer to somebody right now?

Jennifer Gore:

Oh, so my like go-to original favorite book is thinking grow rich Nice great call in hell. I think that book. You can read it time and time again and you'll come up with different Perspectives based on where you are when was that book written?

Chris Lalomia:

1923?.

Alan Wyatt:

Thank you, oh wow you didn't know I couldn't have. So what does that book meant to you?

Jennifer Gore:

If you guys know what that book is yeah.

Jennifer Gore:

That book studied the most successful people in the world at that time over a 20 year period, and And there's kind of like a secret message in it and you have to kind of figure it out based on reading the book, and there's like certain principles that I live by through that book, which is like manifesting things and drawing like success into your life and it's just a lot of good things that, like you were talking earlier, there's principles that are universal, right, timeless time Let's do a verse of principles.

Chris Lalomia:

In the 1920 last I checked, they didn't have iPhones No. Did they have the internet? No. How about a telephone? No, yep. So look at that. Those same principles you learn from Napoleon Hill at that time are still here today and people don't want to embrace that. But we just talked about that earlier.

Alan Wyatt:

Yeah, I can't shake the eye contact.

Jennifer Gore:

Yeah, it's like it's timeless. I mean that book was written over 20 years and he studied all these people who were really successful, like Vanderbilt's and you know, Right and he distilled it down.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, beautiful, all right, what's your favorite feature of your house? My pool of course it is. I I do know this because we're Facebook friends and she has young kids and I have a pool in my backyard and I did not do this when they were young because I resisted it. I said I didn't want to have it. Okay and I blew it.

Jennifer Gore:

I'm telling you, i had so many people have pinions when you put it in a Pool, right, everyone. Oh, i don't like a pool. I do like a pool, you know. I do think it does matter the age of your family, and it is an incredible thing for young kids, because they're in there for like eight hours a day. I mean yeah.

Chris Lalomia:

Just wait, you're gonna be the house all the kids want to go then the party house and all that and I want to be that party.

Jennifer Gore:

You want to be the place that kids want to go, but in addition to that what I love, since you're in the home services It has added living space to our house, because now we want to. We never wanted to sit in our backyard looking at a dirt hill. I mean what?

Jennifer Gore:

the heck, you're right so, and also every day, when I my pool is positioned like right outside my kitchen and like I Look out my window, every day We have like a little waterfall thing. It just it's a, it's a huge up level to the Experience of living in the house.

Chris Lalomia:

I love that you have that. I think that's amazing. I did it When my daughter was a junior in high school, so you still got all that. I did I. We had a great time. In fact, we became the house, the house and we were. My kids went to a private school, so a lot of the kids had to travel here, and so we allowed them all to stay here in the finished basement that we're all hanging out.

Jennifer Gore:

God knows what happened down here.

Chris Lalomia:

Jen, we did do that.

Jennifer Gore:

I'll tell you what you want to get my guys cameras. You want cameras?

Chris Lalomia:

It's not I can't do that, but you want a gold nugget. We did do the. We did the Everyday to drop their keys off and their phones off upstairs.

Jennifer Gore:

Isn't that like a totally different type of party?

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, whoops. Well, i didn't think about it like that, but yeah, i thought I was doing the right thing And I was down there. I was down there cooking all the time to go. Hey, hey, hey, hey. What are you guys doing with the hot tub? What, no way. Well, hey God, i'm like Here's yours in pools. Oh, i was, yeah, actually.

Jennifer Gore:

Recommend people to get a pool because I would there are people that we're like you shouldn't get a pool. No maintenance It's too much this.

Chris Lalomia:

No, i am the pool boy, but I wanted us to be the party house because I knew I could control it.

Jennifer Gore:

But do you think that having a pool is too much work? I don't know, that's a myth.

Chris Lalomia:

I wish we'd have done it.

Alan Wyatt:

So when you're the pool boy, you're out there kind of flexing a little bit I am.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, yeah, the pool boy, I could buy a speed over wrong, wrong. I do it all by myself. I was at work. We look at, chris. I put my rock music on out there. I rock it out.

Jennifer Gore:

I, in fact I'm the one who resisted it for years and now that I have it your thing and now I'm out there more than everybody Yeah that's how it goes, yeah, so if you don't have a pool and you're on the fence, i'm telling you you will not regret it. Gold nugget All right, let's go.

Chris Lalomia:

I gotta get a generally, you're out there and you get in service. You're, you know, out there buying something, going to restaurant, whatever. What's a customer service pet peeve of yours? because we are customer service freaks, hello.

Jennifer Gore:

What's a pet peeve of mine. Okay, so you guys still shop in like a department store or anything like that, Like if you had to go to a buy clothes or something. Think of it the last time you did that.

Chris Lalomia:

Well, ellen's told the Nordstrom story a lot, but yeah, Nordstrom or whatever You've been to those or your wife buying these clothes. Yeah, no, I'm out now. Yeah, I hate that.

Jennifer Gore:

I don't like when I go to a department store or like a store and like people are just so aggressive and they're hovering on me. You know they think they're doing customer service but they're not reading the person. I think with customer service you need to read the person and their body language And if they're like I'm good, you need to dial it back because there's been scenarios where they will chase me out of the store. You know they're coming up to me with a 30 different clothes. You should try this on. This is. You know I'm like I'm good, you're overwhelming me.

Chris Lalomia:

It's funny because you know what we hear most of the time You go to a restaurant. make eye contact with me, yeah go to a restaurant.

Jennifer Gore:

You read the person, acknowledge me, but you know what Jen just brought up is exactly read the person. The opposite, you can over do it And, especially like in a restaurant, you need that person to get your service. But there's other stores, especially like you go to, like a bath and body works or like a store where the person is perfectly fine to get their own items, or like a grocery store, and if you have someone aggressively chasing you around it can really stress the person out.

Chris Lalomia:

I would have to say if I went into my publics, somebody was just behind me the whole time You need this cheese. Chris, please back off Number one. I'm the shopper and the family. I'm here all the time. Back off, i know the aisles Okay girl, can I help you? Can.

Jennifer Gore:

I help you. I'm like, do you? Oh, that's funny.

Chris Lalomia:

That's a hard one to pull back on, because we've heard all too often Make eye contact with me. Let me know.

Jennifer Gore:

Jen, you do that in a grocery store.

Chris Lalomia:

All right, i'd be freaked out. I'd probably walk out the door. I don't care how they're looking at you, they'll probably go. No, cut it.

Jennifer Gore:

Would you like this item? Would you like the sign up the road? Oh my God, that's funny, that's great. It's true, though, isn't?

Alan Wyatt:

it Yeah, absolutely.

Jennifer Gore:

All things to all businesses If you're doing great customer service.

Alan Wyatt:

There's a nugget.

Jennifer Gore:

You can't. The person does not need that level of customer service.

Chris Lalomia:

That's good stuff. Hey, can I help you try those underwears? Do, do, do, do Back off.

Jennifer Gore:

I'm taking your groceries to your car.

Chris Lalomia:

Actually, I always say no.

Jennifer Gore:

I'm like no, no, no, They think that I want to give you service.

Alan Wyatt:

Can I interest you in a lean cuisine, chris Hey are you calling me fat, Damn it. Alan.

Chris Lalomia:

It's mildly obese. Yeah, actually I am obese. I'm not even slightly overweight. I told you I'm not even. I'm not even mildly overweight. No, i actually got hit. He was fired to be mildly overweight. That's my new. That's going to be all right. So Jen doesn't know the sun, so I just wanted to do a physical And they've lowered the weight.

Jennifer Gore:

The standards.

Chris Lalomia:

And I'm a six to two guy, right, but I put on a few pounds. But I also play football And I'm actually, you look good, chris, i still have 20 pounds under my football weight, but that's a different story because I usually carry a lot less. And she says, hey, you're 81 season high, so well, well, how was it tracked? She goes, well, we haven't been tracking it, but because you're in the obese category, we are. I'm like, but do what? I looked her to it. She's this little little older lady And I'm like, i'm like I was ready to jump at her And I mean, obviously you guys can't see me, you'll see me on YouTube. I mean, i'm six to two, 35.

Jennifer Gore:

Those are fighting birds, right there What?

Chris Lalomia:

And she goes, she goes. yeah, if you lose 10 pounds you'll be a solidly overweight. So I told Ellen, i said my new work out, that's an inspiration because I go to the gym. I go to the gym like four times a week. I said my new workout shirt is going to be I'm striving for solidly overweight.

Jennifer Gore:

It's a it's a new day here.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah.

Jennifer Gore:

You got to get a trainer.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, I know.

Jennifer Gore:

That's my other key hack.

Chris Lalomia:

Actually. Yeah, that's good for you. No, actually. I just He goes, that's good for you Good for you, but I just need to stop eating and drinking 80% what you eat, right. Well, you cannot run the fork when you're my age. I'm old, i don't run the fork.

Alan Wyatt:

I love it.

Chris Lalomia:

All right, last question. This is my favorite one. I want a DIY nightmare story in the house And we like Dismemberment blood, explosions, fire, smoke, electrocution, water water.

Jennifer Gore:

Have all these happening?

Alan Wyatt:

Letting As Chris looks his fingers, which are Fingers in the right direction.

Chris Lalomia:

So yeah, the fingers of the loft. Actually those were all football stuff, but yeah.

Jennifer Gore:

Yeah.

Chris Lalomia:

Oh no, actually that one was. That was a fingernail.

Alan Wyatt:

Yeah, i wish I had a habit of holding onto a piece of wood and shooting a nail gun into it that goes through the wood into his finger.

Jennifer Gore:

No, no, the hand clamp Not good.

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, don't worry, i run, i run a hand.

Alan Wyatt:

I do, thank God I do That's because you shot them together with a nail gun.

Chris Lalomia:

My finger, yeah, my fingers. I've never cut this. The saw never got through my finger.

Jennifer Gore:

Yeah, I can say that, Thank God Oh.

Chris Lalomia:

I can't say that blood wasn't flying everywhere, but it never made it always knocking on wood.

Jennifer Gore:

Yeah, I have a lot of DIY things from back in the day When I was in law school, we bought a house in Roswell. That was the cheapest house in Roswell you could actually buy. It was one hundred and twelve thousand dollars, which you can't. Find a house like that.

Alan Wyatt:

What is that house worth today?

Jennifer Gore:

It's worth like three hundred. Ok, wow, that house we had a tear top to bottom. It was owned by a trust and it was like infested with cockroaches. You know, when these houses down in the South get left, they get, they get bad.

Alan Wyatt:

They go back to nature real quick.

Jennifer Gore:

So we were so excited and we had to do a lot of the work ourselves, because I was in law school and it was, you know, brutal. We, you know, didn't pick all the right.

Chris Lalomia:

You keep saying we Me and my husband. Oh, he was involved then.

Jennifer Gore:

And I'm not handy at all, so it was mainly on him, oh nice.

Alan Wyatt:

This is the Angus DIY. Yeah, I mean, I did. I want to hear what it is.

Chris Lalomia:

But the house up the house.

Jennifer Gore:

You know, one of the biggest mistakes we made is we put down. Do you remember that time when it like really dark wood floors was a thing?

Chris Lalomia:

like a black.

Alan Wyatt:

Yeah, when was that like? in 2009? Yeah, is that not a thing anymore?

Chris Lalomia:

No, it's coming back to the middle, ok, ok, do you?

Jennifer Gore:

ever, because we put that damn flooring down and I will tell you, it showed everything, this flooring. You could walk across the floor in your slippers and you would see footprints. I mean, this was like if you have a black car, a black piano. I mean, this car, this flooring was the bane of my existence And we were so excited We, you know, it must have been on sale, you know. And so we put that flooring in. It was a nightmare. We had to actually end up ripping it out And I would just say anyone with a dark floor, get, do not ever do. Is that your advice as well?

Chris Lalomia:

Yeah, so dark floors not so good, because they sound. it sounds good, but they start showing so much. They show immediately and they stuff and scratch and Yeah, And we actually my my family, in fact my kids will tell you they're on the way to therapy because we've never had a pet in our house.

Jennifer Gore:

Oh, because they? I had two dogs. They tore this floor.

Chris Lalomia:

Oh, they tore that floor up and that hair was everywhere And the fur and it was like it was like. So it's a dry white nightmare. Yeah, i'm just saying It's not dismemberment, it's not necessarily, it's not dismemberment or anything like that.

Jennifer Gore:

But I'm just saying, when you're novice and you don't know what you're picking and you're just randomly DIYing stuff, you have no idea the pitfalls of the things you're choosing. And I think when you hire a professional they can say, hey, listen, i put this floor in, not good.

Chris Lalomia:

Now she hit it on, so I'm going to pitch myself for a minute, because I agree with you, that's. am I going to go represent myself in a personal injury law case? No, am I going to go pick your own flooring.

Jennifer Gore:

Yeah, yeah, so you want to do that.

Chris Lalomia:

There's a reason that you go with professionals. I just had somebody tell us that today I'm going to, i'm going to go with somebody else. I'm like that's great, that's a great call. You know, i'm going to do this one myself and like, awesome, you guys go, you go remodel your bathroom yourself. I'm great at it. I'm like I'm sure you are, as a guy who's done tile and knows how to do it, no, that's not happening. All right, yeah, jen, this has been awesome, but we have got to close this up. But before we do that So sad, i know it is So- we are not going to look at billboards on podcasts.

Chris Lalomia:

We can't see radio ads. We can't see TV ads. You can see anyone, by the way. So how can we find you online? How can we get in touch with you and keep following you and your business ascent, because you are on your way up?

Alan Wyatt:

GorePaincom. Yeah, if only, if only I've made better tips.

Jennifer Gore:

Yeah, if only, if only, I've made better decisions. My law firm is Atlanta Personal Injury Law Group. You can find us at wwwatlinjurylawgroupcom. My email, jennifer. At ATL Injury Law Group, you can just search us on social media and I'm sure you'll find us on all the platforms LinkedIn, instagram, tiktok, youtube.

Chris Lalomia:

Let's go TikTok baby.

Jennifer Gore:

We're going to get you guys on TikTok.

Chris Lalomia:

I'm on it, baby.

Alan Wyatt:

I'm on it. I've been a couple episodes since we've talked about TikTok. I know I'm excited.

Chris Lalomia:

It might be banned soon so.

Chris Lalomia:

All right. Even better, i want to be with the banned or Solidgery Law. This would be good. All right, this has been amazing. I'll tell you what. Jen continued success going up the mountain top. If you guys haven't learned something from today and what's going down and how you can do things, you may not have to start with a business plan, but you definitely have to figure out how you're going to take the brand, how you're going to scale it up, how you're going to become the CEO of your business and not be the guy in your business being a great technician. Go, figure it out. Maybe it happened. We're going to check you out next time. Here we go, we're out of here. Cheers.

Jennifer Gore:

Hold on straight.

People on this episode

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Chris Lalomia

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Alan Wyatt

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