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The Small Business Safari
Have you ever sat there and wondered "What am I doing here stuck in the concrete zoo of the corporate world?" Are you itching to get out? Chris Lalomia and his co-host Alan Wyatt traverse the jungle of entrepreneurship. Together they share their stories and help you explore the wild world of SCALING your business. With many years of owning their own small businesses, they love to give insight to the aspiring entrepreneur. So, are you ready to make the jump?
The Small Business Safari
Scaling Small Businesses, Hitchhiking Tales, and Music Memories with Terry 'Doc' Dockery
Unlock the secrets of scaling your small business with insights from our special guest, Terry "Doc" Dockery, as he shares wisdom on conflict resolution and finding happiness in entrepreneurship. We navigate the intricate dynamics of family-run businesses, offering key strategies to attract and retain talent, implement effective systems, and the importance of stepping back to work on your business instead of just in it. Through the inspiring story of an entrepreneur who transitioned from a humble printer shop to a thriving waterproofing business, we emphasize the power of mentorship and strategic growth.
Take a nostalgic journey back to 1976 with tales of hitchhiking adventures from Berkeley to Augusta, where the thrill of the open road met the generosity of strangers. We humorously compare this era of travel with today’s structured ride-sharing services, highlighting how perceptions of safety have evolved over time. The episode blends these lighthearted stories with deeper reflections on music and personal growth, including an unforgettable encounter with BB King and the vibrant world of tribute bands, bringing a rich tapestry of narratives that span decades.
Explore the challenges and joys of entrepreneurship, from navigating family business dynamics to mastering the art of delegation and leadership. We share personal stories and expert advice on managing work-life balance, strategic planning, and the complexities of transitioning from a high-powered consulting career to solopreneurship. Finally, get ready for our upcoming music listener party in Atlanta, where we thank Doc for his musical contributions and invite our audience to join us in creating unforgettable memories.
From the Zoo to Wild is a book for entrepreneurs passionate about home services, looking to move away from corporate jobs. Chris Lalomia, a former executive, shares his path, discoveries, and tools to succeed as a small business owner in home improvement retail. The book provides the mindset, habits, leadership style, and customer-oriented processes necessary to succeed as a small business owner in home services.
But as we scale and we're a small mom and pop and we're trying to scale or we're a family trying to scale what are some of those dynamics? What do you think these guys have to really start to understand, accept and then start to resolve? Welcome to the Small Business Safari, where I help guide you to avoid those traps, pitfalls and dangers that lurk when navigating the wild world of small business ownership. I'll share those gold nuggets of information and invite guests to help accelerate your ascent to that mountaintop of success. It's a jungle out there and I want to help you traverse through the levels of owning your own business that can get you bogged down and distract you from hitting your own personal and professional goals. So strap in adventure team and let's take a ride through the safari and get you to the mountaintop. And get you to the mountaintop. Allen, I'm getting ready to get smart. I'm feeling like I'm going back to school. We've got to go back and we've got to get our pencils sharpened.
Speaker 2:Did we outpunt our coverage today again?
Speaker 1:I think we've done it, I think we're about to. I think you better get your thesaurus out. I think I'm going to have to get my slide rule out. I'm going to have to go back to the old school and figure out how engineering works and how things work and how my mind works, and then we're going to find out what Doc's really about. But before we do that, one of the things I wanted to bring up, because this is very germane to what we're going to talk about today.
Speaker 1:You know, you guys, I've always talked about having mentors and having them help you with just little advice. And a mentor doesn't somebody who just comes in here and tells you everything you're doing right, everything you're doing wrong, and he's not a business coach, it's just somebody you grab and he just starts giving you gold nuggets as you're going along and just having a normal conversation with them. One of mine was a guy who started in the printer shop of my buddy's place 30 years ago and got into the building boom of doing waterproofing of new construction homes here in Atlanta and he realized that nobody was going to waterproof it right because the builders wouldn't pay the money. So he saw an opportunity to do waterproofing of his existing homes. So he started his business 30 years ago and I had a chance to interview him on the radio show that I do before we came here to do this, and I said instead of just talking about waterproofing, let's talk about how you get into this and what you do as a business. And here's what he talked about. He said you know, good people in business will do good things for your customers, and if you have a team that you continually hire the right people, coach train, put the right systems in place, coach train repeat, he said and you can build and scale a business that will grow.
Speaker 1:I always recommend that people always try to work on their business at least one day a month at a minimum, if not one day a week, because if you're not working on your business, you least one day a month at a minimum, if not one day a week, because if you're not working on your business, you will always be a solopreneur. You'll be somebody who can't scale if you're always working in your business. So you guys taking the time to get on this podcast, listen to this a little bit. Hopefully you're in your truck. Maybe you're taking a walk walking the dog. Hopefully it's a beautiful fall day. Wherever you are In all 25 continents, we are in seven universes, but today we've got somebody who's really going to rock and roll and take us to that next level, maybe edumacate us a little bit more. We got Terry Doc Dockery, who not only, as the thing says, resolves conflicts scale up and be happy but he helps people figure out how to scale. So, doc, looking forward to talking about this and kicking around with you for a little while.
Speaker 3:Sounds great. You know, speaking of rock and roll, john said that I should play my harmonica for you guys, because I used to be a professional musician. And I thought about it. And as I started thinking about it, it made me feel a little bit chicken. I said, you know, the last thing these guys would want is for me to turn this into some kind of circus. And I thought, oh shoot, that made me feel even more chicken. And I thought, well, all this thinking, think too much, it starts to give you the blues. So I said this whole thing can get away from. It's like a runaway train. So I just said goodbye to the whole idea and decided not to play my harmonica and just go right on into the interview I appreciate that and that was awesome.
Speaker 1:Where else, you know what top genre podcast I think is harmonica playing podcast and the art of harmonica playing.
Speaker 2:You know, that's a new one for us, Chris I think a harmonica being played.
Speaker 1:We're putting that.
Speaker 2:That might be the time we had, one time we had a trumpet, but we never could get him to play it, as I recall, we could get him to play it.
Speaker 1:As I recall, we got him to play the trumpet, uh, at the end, and I think it was off air.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it would be well, I used to do a lot of hitchhiking and it's just when I played guitar and it was hard to hitchhike with it, and trumpet would be hard too, or piano is the worst, but you know, harmonica works pretty well all right, you've dropped a couple things from your bio.
Speaker 2:so you hitchhiked from berkeley, california, where where that was a big part of my childhood I had an aunt that lived there all the way to Augusta, georgia.
Speaker 3:Yes, sir.
Speaker 2:How long did that take and how many rides was it? You didn't just find the magic one that got you there in one shot.
Speaker 3:It took several rides and it took three days. Basically I was adventuring. I was in my walkabout phase and I'd run out of money and I had to hitchhike home to beg my dad for money to get my van fixed so I could drive it home, and so I mean it was quite an adventure. I'll have to say I met some interesting folks along the way.
Speaker 1:Man three days from Berkeley to.
Speaker 3:Augusta.
Speaker 2:That is very fast.
Speaker 1:I mean, even if it was today.
Speaker 2:Well, if he had no money he couldn't stay in a motel. So as soon as somebody dropped him off, he had to stick his thumb back out again.
Speaker 3:I did. Actually, the last guys that picked me up had bought a. I think I was somewhere in the middle of the country and they bought a classic car and they were driving back east and they actually got a hotel room for me. You know, they spent the night, got, you know it was, and then took me right to my front door. You know it was wow, wow.
Speaker 1:What year was that? 1976? How about that? So today, do you think any of us could pull that off? God, no, would you want to?
Speaker 2:well, no, because you'd be hacked up in somebody's freezer right what has happened? To us it was.
Speaker 3:It was much more hack. Before I did it. I bought some. There were people were publishing books on hitchhiking and how to do it. Well, I read a couple books and how to make great hitchhiking signs.
Speaker 1:I hitchhiked a class did you really, yeah, when I was in college? I have never hitchhiked. No, really, no, no, never, really yeah, when I was in college. I have never hitchhiked. Oh really, no, no, never done it.
Speaker 2:I was mostly motivated when it snowed.
Speaker 3:Thank goodness, my kids didn't do that, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't do what Dad did, please. And grandkids forget about it. I mean, think about the advent of Uber. I remember. I mean just think if you had this conversation with your kids and your kids. They said Dad, I'm going to hitchhike. No, no, no, you don't get in a car with a stranger. Okay, dad, I'm going to grab my phone, I'm going to tell somebody that I'm here and I want to go there, and they're going to come pick me up. I'm going to go in the back of their car. They're going to take me from where I live. How does that sound, dad? Uh, no, that's right.
Speaker 2:You're going to die.
Speaker 1:Well, no, they call it Uber. I'm like I don't care what they call it. You're about to Uber die, so yeah, so now, uber is very well accepted and of course they have all the practices this, that and the other. But if you think about that business disrupting content of what they did and how they put this together, I mean genius kudos to them, but absolutely crazy idea they did and how they put this together.
Speaker 2:I mean genius, kudos to them, but absolutely crazy idea. So you, you. One more thing before we get into business. I saw you won an award. Was it given to you by bb king?
Speaker 3:oh yeah, we, we, uh. This was in 1988. We, uh, this is, uh, it's the. The contest is held every year in memphis for the best amateur blues act in the country, and I was in graduate school at the time. I had been a professional musician years before, but we competed and won. And then we got to play on the WC Handy Awards a couple of months later, which is the blues equivalent of the Grammys, and BB King was actually there. He played before us, we got to hang out with him backstage, backstage and he actually gave us the trophy. And we tell everybody that BB King opened up for us. Of course I went to church.
Speaker 1:No, I'd stick with that story, man. I got to see BB. I got to see BB play in not the smallest of venues, but a small ish venue. Man. I mean that, that cat, he was old at the time and he was sitting down.
Speaker 2:But man, he could play that guitar. Yeah, I saw him Not in an arena but a pretty good-sized venue. Now do you still play?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I put the Harmonica and bands around town still.
Speaker 2:So where can we see it, since we're local?
Speaker 3:Well, now, lately I've just been sitting in. My latest regular gig was I played in an Allman Brothers tribute band. You know they had a harp player, ace Doucette, back in the day and invited him to join the band and he didn't. But there's a band called Tribute. Now I'm not playing with them anymore. The guy that runs that talk about entrepreneurs. He was a VP of marketing or sales. He sold CDs for a living but all he ever wanted to do was play. And he's got some money from somewhere. But he's running as his retirement thing and I think he's probably not, but about 55 or so. He's running three tribute bands Allman Brothers Tribute Band, rolling Stones Tribute Band and a Crosby Stills, nash Young Tribute Band. And that's what he does for fun.
Speaker 1:And I tell you, uh, what's what's wild is that whole tribute band thing is a big deal. It is a big deal. I'll give you my. My hook to one of them is that where my office is, we back up, we're in an industrial park and we back up to another industrial park where the band there's the aerosmith tribute band here locally practices, warms up and gets going, and this guy is in two different well, one tribute band at Aerosmith.
Speaker 1:So Aerosmith just announced they retired. He said our bookings have gone nationwide. He said I'm going to Vegas and this guy and the reason I know him is because we're a handyman company, remodeling company and he'll come over and grab our scraps and say man, I'm a handyman by day, but I'm, I'm steven tyler by night, you know, and got a great voice and so those guys would, would play back there and practice. We go over and just listen to them. You know that's fun. Oh yeah, it's a lot of fun. You know there's there's guys, for you know, I'm a little bit of a headbanger, so I knew some of the guitarists that came through with some of their bands from the bands from the 80s and uh, but yeah, so the whole music scene that's really cool, and the tribute band thing, I think.
Speaker 3:I mean it seems to me like it's blowing up yeah, man well, maybe it's already blowing up, I don't know it's easy easier to market, you know it's like because people know what they're going to get and if they like that music, whereas if you just bill yourself as a party band, you're going to get some eclectic mix of music and yada, yada, yada. But it's easier to settle.
Speaker 1:So, doc, you came. It sounds like you were originally from Augusta, because you definitely don't sound like you're originally from UC Berkeley.
Speaker 3:Actually, I was born in Athens when my parents were in school, and I've lived in Augusta, brunswick and Savannah and now Atlanta. And of course, I lived in Berkeley for a while and then in Wilmington, delaware, for a while so was the academic career always something that your parent I mean.
Speaker 1:So today we're going to talk about scaling up your business and doing that, but give us that background that got you into this, because it sounds like, uh, it sounds like your parents perhaps were academic and you were an academic and but you also were a music guy, so let's talk about that well so.
Speaker 3:So I had a weird family made me want to study psychology and then I paid my way through undergraduate selling men's clothes and loved it and kind of give and take of the marketplace. So when I got ready to get serious about a career, uh, industrial, organizational psychology sounded like a great blend of those two interests. And then I realized that the academic environment was not. I mean, it just didn't feel right for me and so consulting seemed. You know, that was really the two main choices. And people talk about internal consulting, but I think that's an oxymoron. You can't be internal and be a consultant. So I went to external consulting.
Speaker 3:My parents both got their master's degrees. My dad, I grew up on a farm in Americas Actually I didn't even mention Americas and then they decided they had to make a change. I think they were working themselves into an early grave. My dad was a farm manager. We had our own farm, I think 500 acres or so, and they just decided they were going to completely change lifestyles. They went and got their master's degrees and they both went to work for the state of Georgia. My dad was a vocational rehab counselor, which is probably some of the inspiration to go into that side of helping side of thing and my mom was a school teacher and that was a big change. That's when we moved to Augusta, when they decided to make that change.
Speaker 1:So where did you get your PhD from?
Speaker 3:LSU I taught Shaquille O'Neal. I'll take full credit for all his success.
Speaker 2:Hey you should.
Speaker 1:You did a good job with him. You know, he's very. I feel like he's very mentally stable. It seems like he's very industrially organized.
Speaker 3:Do you?
Speaker 2:like how I did that. I'm telling you, man, he's killing it here in Atlanta.
Speaker 1:I mean, if you follow what he really has done in the business and what he does in the community, amazing, I mean that guy does not get enough credit for that.
Speaker 3:No, he went pro. I was teaching while I was working on my dissertation, I was teaching in the business school and he was taking my introduction to management class. And in the middle of that, you know he probably hated it. But I'd go to the games because we were poor and I had a student ID so I could go see all the home games for free. And then I'd ask him about the game. We'd always start off the class analyzing the game and this and that, but in the middle of the semester he got that contract, maybe 11 million dollars.
Speaker 1:He was gone, brother. Oh, you mean he didn't stay for he didn't stay. I bet you that's one of his biggest regrets, is it?
Speaker 3:I'm sure I'm thinking he did go back and finish up, though you know he's got a phd in education or something. He's got an advanced degree, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I think his dad instilled a great deal of discipline, respect, all those things that you see in his adult life and he went back and finished his education. I mean an advanced degree.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I happen to know some people who are actually in his orbit and so they've talked about him. So I've never met him individually myself, but they've talked about him. So I've never met him individually myself. But you listen to what they say, uh, about him when they get to meet him and they talk about what he does. He keeps a lot of what he really does underneath the radar. You see him on now, uh, you know, as a the star or this or that, or you know maybe a little uh audacious and um out there. He has really given back to the community. He's helped a lot of people and he takes no credit for it. He's got houses here in atlanta, in orlando, I know that, and there might be other ones, but he's here in atlanta quite a bit didn't he become sheriff or a deputy or something like that down in county?
Speaker 2:yeah, it didn't he.
Speaker 1:I think you're right, but I mean, there's a lot to that guy, you know. And again, uh, I, because I've had people watch the, the tbs sports Inside the NBA. Yeah with Ernie, and people go. Man, he sounds like a blithering idiot and I'm like, oh, he's the exact opposite of that, bro. I'm telling you, I mean, this dude is on top of it. He probably made more money outside of basketball than he did when he was playing. Oh yeah, I'll bet you're right about that.
Speaker 1:He's doing a great job. So so I'm going to credit Doc, and so you guys are listening. You want to be like Shaq. You listen to this podcast. You keep going because.
Speaker 2:Doc's going to drop it. You want BB King to warm up for you.
Speaker 1:You want BB King to warm up for you? You want to learn how to play a harmonica? Well, maybe that's another episode. So, doc, before we got on and you and I talked earlier, one of the things that you here's what I took away is that you take a lot of pride is that you've helped a lot of families figure out what to do in their own businesses, because a lot of families end up doing business together. So I want to we have not talked about that angle a lot, because really at all right, uh. So I'd like to talk a little bit more about what do you see with family dynamics. Maybe you're going to give us an example or or whatever, but kind of set that scene, because there's a lot of family businesses out there Husband gets in, wife gets in, aunts and uncles, whatever but I just I really found that interesting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, and some of my experience. I've worked with family businesses scaling them up. But I worked with some of the wealthiest family offices in the state and got to see the dynamics of those uber wealthy families and man, it gets. It gets really complicated when you start mixing love and money and you know I have a strong bias that there's a hundred ways to make a buck. You don't want to screw up your family over making money, but that's a lot. That's a lot of times. That's what happens because people, well, you know, you see, when it comes time to read the will and kids are fighting over the money and all you know it's one thing and another. But to keep the family healthy and make that a success and then to scale up a successful business, well, there's a lot of moving parts to that and it takes a really advanced skill set to do those things both at the same time.
Speaker 1:So let's package these things then. So uber wealthy we'll talk about a little bit later because that's really more Alan's territory. We don't like to talk about it much, but as we scale and we're a small mom and pop and we're trying to scale, or we're a family trying to scale what are some of those dynamics? What do you think these guys have to really start to understand, accept and then start to resolve?
Speaker 3:Sure.
Speaker 3:Well, one of the mistakes that I see often is that if you give a kid a lot of money before and they don't feel like they've earned it, you really risk screwing them up for the rest of their lives because they know if they lost it they couldn't make it back.
Speaker 3:It undermines you know, because your confidence is gained from overcoming challenges and hurdles, and that's what builds your confidence is gained from overcoming challenges and hurdles and that's what builds your confidence that you can handle the next hurdles that come. And if it comes too easily to them like that, it really messes them up. I mean literally they're nervous the rest of their lives, worried that they know they didn't make it. They know that if mom or dad or whoever gave them the money is no longer supportive, then they've got a lot of risk there, and so that's one of the things I see that the family businesses have to keep an eye on. The other one is telling a child that they're succeeding when they're not, you know, like making them vice president of the company or CEO of the company when everybody knows they're not good at it. I mean, try attracting and retaining A players when you got somebody in a position of power, who everybody knows is inept.
Speaker 2:That happens a lot though, doesn't it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, because that's what I'm saying is the love and money. I love you, so I'm going to put you in this position of power and make everybody dislike you because you screw up the job. You know, you see the flawed reasoning there.
Speaker 1:So you mean having your son break down a brick mailbox that got taken out by a car and then we found out there was three feet of concrete underneath there, and making him chisel it out and then put it in the truck himself. So that was a good thing that I did, did very good thing. Well, that's what I want you to explain to my entire family that I was doing. The right thing is that he was driving down 285 with a, with a pickup. Actually, I came and drove the truck because it was so bad he bottomed it out, but he did. It took him all day to do this, so he didn't start out as a vp, but he started as the grunt.
Speaker 1:Um, but then again, he's not going into my business either, but you're saying that that's the way to go, because, but but that's such a big thing. You actually hit on one thing that I think a lot of people miss. And in in corporate america, if you're thinking about making the pop and going into entrepreneurship or you're doing entrepreneurship, man, dude it, dude. It's hard. I mean, right guys, we all know it's hard.
Speaker 1:But what are some of the biggest things I take pride in is that my parents could have put me through school and they didn't. I put myself through school. What are your biggest things? We talk about this all the time between Elle and I. Our biggest things is that you know, our parents didn't give us anything except a great foundation, a great work ethic and enough support to make sure that we had a chance to succeed. Because I tell people, I have a springboard. My parents were amazing. They were springboards. But when I look back on everything I've done, that's one of my proudest things, you know. And you look back because what did it tell you? It told you that you can Not. It was given to you. It told you that you can Not. It was given to you. It told you you can. And then, when it doesn't happen, you realize you know what I got to get up there, because I know I can, because I did it once. Maybe I can do it again. But if you've never done it, you don't know.
Speaker 2:I think we're raising a whole generation of kids. Well, you're not trouble, I mean. I mean I got another, your kids.
Speaker 1:But, uh, your, your, your kids, those kids are tooled. Uh, they're ready to rock and roll. Um, I think you did a good job that way. But I agree and I, you know, here's the thing I I fall into that I have friends who are doing this. They're like they do everything for their kids and you're like they're not helicopter parents, man, they are literally like snowplow parents. They're like knocking everything out of the way and I'm like, are you really giving your kids that chance to go? Wow, mom, dad, look how cool I am, because I mean, I'm talking about, you know, my wife.
Speaker 1:Uh, she always talks about she went to work at a pizza hut and she went to work at a, um, a country club and she was making money hand over fist because she was a cute girl at a country club with a bunch of old white people, which I am one of those guys now. So, uh, she always talks about how she put herself through school that way. And so think about that. How many years later, I mean, this is well, don't date us. She's really old. Um, good thing she doesn't listen, but yeah, so I think, doc, you hit on that.
Speaker 3:So well, I thought you said it well. I mean, the thing is, you want to support your kids, you know, so they know you're always there. But let them overcome the challenges, because that's how they get the confidence they're going to need the rest of their lives, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you got to give them those tools.
Speaker 2:I'm going back, I keep mulling over this whole notion of you've got a successful company and you've got your Nimrod son as COO or head of sales and everybody knows, and you probably kind of know too but how do you fire your son?
Speaker 1:Oh, I want to hear this. Come on, doc, you've got to have a good story on that one.
Speaker 3:Well, think about it now. It's role conflict.
Speaker 1:Better than Imrod.
Speaker 3:Well, it's role conflict right as a parent the role is different than as the leader of a business, right?
Speaker 3:So if you're not building a meritocracy in your business, you're never going to actualize it like you could. Right? And everybody knows that. I mean, if you haven't fooled anybody when you put somebody in charge of you, know, give them some power, and they're not good at what they do, whether they're, you know, family members or not, right? So in fact I've probably overdone it. On my youngest my youngest son is an addiction psychiatrist and we're going to go to our nephew's wedding down in West Palm Beach later on this month. And I said, well, and his wife is a cosmetic dermatologist, now, right? And so I said, well, do y'all need some help with your hotel room? And I learned a new word. He said Dad, don't be infantilizing me, what?
Speaker 2:does that mean?
Speaker 3:Whoa, treating me like an infant. He said I'm in my 30s, we can afford the hotel room. Oh sorry, didn't mean to step on it, but you see, I mean that wanting to be independent, that no, we're grown up, I'm doing that to my kids.
Speaker 1:I'm like, look, I'm not going to infant you. Actually I'm gonna. It's going to be so bad doc, because you're way smarter than me. I'm gonna say I ain't put no diaper on you, boy infantilizing.
Speaker 2:I had to practice saying it I can't even imagine one of my kids going. That's okay, dad, I got it oh, there's no way my case was no, I mean.
Speaker 1:Well, right now we uh, to date the podcast, the hurricane had come through that ravaged Asheville, north Carolina, and that's where my daughter is currently in PA school, and she was luckily here with us when this happened. But her friends have come down and so I've said I'm putting up refugees from Asheville, but my daughter, who is 26, I couldn't even, and so here's the place. You played last night, alan, you're going to love this. So we live in a country club and the only way you can pay oh, is there a golf course?
Speaker 1:There's a golf course. You probably won't see Alan, but let me tell you how Alan's got a great swing that's just never going to be seen with me and St Ives. But she goes, dad, we're going up to the club, I'm going to feed everybody. I'm like, okay, I'm going to feed everybody. Wait a minute. You can't pay, so I'm feeding everybody, you just big salad-ed you.
Speaker 1:Oh, she was. Yeah, this is my daughter. Do better, do better, better dad. But she said it just like that. Yeah, I'm gonna take everybody up to the club. I'm like, oh, you are okay you're so magnanimous.
Speaker 3:Is she in sales?
Speaker 1:if she's not, she should be right oh, this girl, well, she's gonna be, she's gonna be a pa, uh, but and and she keeps saying she doesn't want to run her own business, but she has got, uh, she's got the tools for it, uh, and I'm hoping someday that she wants to, and I really want to be there to help her.
Speaker 2:Doc. Getting back to the Nimrod as COO, my guess is it's not because somebody who started a business is an idiot and they put their idiot son in charge. It's just when the business was small and the family's working together. It's like all right. Well, you're better at sales, you do this, and oh, you're better at keeping the books, you do this. Suddenly, the business scales and the business grows beyond their abilities.
Speaker 3:And then also yeah, it exceeds their skillset. And that's when I mean well, you can you have to make a decision, like to me, when I'm trying to help somebody, it's always what are your goals, you know, what's your vision for that day-to-day life or whatever it is you're, what's the end game? And if the end game is to have you know, I don't care if we actualize all the potential of the business. I want to keep my kids employed. I love working with them and I know he's not the best coo on the planet, but he'll do and we'll have a big time and life will be good. And if that's, you know, if they're clear about it, that's fine, you know all right.
Speaker 1:So you come into businesses, you help the and I want to go back to still the family businesses trying to scale, as opposed to the uber wealthy trying to sort out their own personal issues. Um, because we're going to get to that one in a minute, because I think we're gonna have a lot of fun with that I'm talking. This is this might be an entire podcast segment, uh, that we may start but it's going to be aspirational sorts of questions for you, chris.
Speaker 2:Aspirational yes.
Speaker 1:Emphasis on aspirational, Exactly so as you come in and help companies out, you've seen the Nimrod son in one spot. How about the family just doing everything themselves and they're just not the best at what they're doing and they're thinking about maybe some outside help? Or how do you help them with that? They're just not the best at what they're doing and they're thinking about maybe some outside help. How?
Speaker 3:do you help them with that? You mean as far as letting go or bringing in outside folks.
Speaker 1:Maybe bringing in outside folks to actually join the team and be part of the team, because I've experienced this. There was a friend of mine, whole family to everything and they realized to get to the next level they had to bring in another person. And they brought in an accountant and she really started to help them all resolve their conflicts, all through the power of just being precise and disciplined. Have you worked with that?
Speaker 3:Talk about that one a little bit. Well, you know I started out doing Fortune 500 consulting and the reason I launched my business and I'm a solopreneur.
Speaker 2:You started small. Pardon me, you started small.
Speaker 3:But I was in a firm and I was traveling a lot and I was the best business developer they'd ever had and was making lots of money. And I was miserable because I was missing my three kids to grow up and I couldn't talk to the partners at the time into doing what I wanted to do, which really was to market and service more locally in Atlanta. I thought when the business one of the business hot spots of the world what the heck am I? Why am I in Cincinnati, you know it's like? And they wouldn't go for that because they wanted a national footprint. So that's. I launched my business in 97 to get control of my time and I don't think I missed a child sports event One time. One time I was driving through Arkansas a hundred miles an hour trying to catch my plane and still missed it, but I think that's about the only game I ever missed. So it was about getting, you know, control of my time. So, as I went downstream in terms of revenue and so forth, to small to medium businesses and I focus on the Atlanta region one of the biggest challenges I see is delegation in general, because, to be a small business person, I think they're bright, hardworking people that are good at a lot of things, and delegation or turning anything over to somebody else is like pulling teeth generally and especially bringing in. You know, people put family members in because they're a known quantity, they can trust them, they know who they are, they know what their strengths and weaknesses are, yada, yada, yada.
Speaker 3:But so, once again, it depends on your goals. If you're making enough money and that's what I do in my CEO and owner round table we start off with how much money is enough money, because you don't want to get on that track where you run round and round and you never have enough and you're never happy, right? So if they're making enough money, and that's fine. But if they want to scale it up, you got to attract and retain talent, and you can't do that if you have substandard leaders in place, because nobody's going to stick around, because they'll see that you're not. I mean, I had a prospect meeting the other day. I was asked to help this company and they have two partners and within a half an hour they thought they had an HR problem because they had 100% turnover. Well, after a half an hour talking to the two partners, I knew what their major problem was it was one of the partners. I said dude, you're never going to scale up this company because people won't come and work for you if you treat them this way. So I mean it's like it depends on the goals. So bring in outside help if you're building a meritocracy and you want the best available. You know.
Speaker 3:Thanks, son. You've been a great interim COO. We need to get a professional in here now. Let's move you over to sales or whatever it is that you really where you really shine. You know, are you an entrepreneur or are you a coo? Well, I'm an entrepreneur, so let's get you focused on how the business is going to make money and where you'll enjoy your and you know play to your strengths do you find people call you and say, hey, I want to you do the exploratory call and hey, we gotta have you.
Speaker 1:And you you go, yes, all right, let's go do this. And you get there and they're like they're not doing the thing. You do this. And you get there and they're like they're not doing the thing. You're telling them. They're like, no, but you said you guys are ready, so they're not ready to change. What do you do with them, even though they said sign me up. And you went, yeah, they're ready. I have assessed them. I think they're ready. They're going to change. They're going to change for the better. They're going to take back their time. They're going to take back their freedom. I want to talk about some of those big blocks.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, I have to say it's true. Over a 30-year career, people have paid me handsomely for advice. They didn't take that's part of the consulting game right what you can control and what you can't. I go in. There's a gold nugget for you.
Speaker 1:You want to be a great consultant. Go in, there's a gold nugget for you. You want to be a great consultant go in there, give them a bunch of money and when they don't change, go well, all right, let's keep trying, all right. No, let's keep trying, let's keep trying.
Speaker 3:All right, keep paying me right no, I know, that's not what you're saying, doc but? But you know the the thing is, it's like you go in, you give the best advice and you pitch it right. Early in my career I think I was probably too harsh. You know, gosh, you suck at that well. You don't get much traction with that. But you know, boy, I see a great opportunity for you. You know that's a lot different than saying, man, you're really weak in this area well, you did just say after a half an hour on a prospect.
Speaker 2:Uh, the reason why nobody will ever stay is because of you oh, I didn't.
Speaker 3:I didn't tell him that I had a.
Speaker 2:I had a discussion with his partner afterward oh so you have softened up oh, look at you, doc.
Speaker 3:I just said look, uh, you know here's what we could do that might work. But I mean, I basically just said here's, here's the main problem, here's why everybody's leaving. You'll never get good people to come and stay when you treat them like he treats people did the other partner know that already?
Speaker 1:Yes, he just needs you to say that to him right.
Speaker 3:Sure, what can you? Do? You like? You give them your best advice, you pitch the advantages and you try to get them to take a. You know, get the foot in the door, just take a baby step. And they say, oh yeah, it really works, then they'll take. You know, do your very best. But oh yeah, it really works, then they'll take. You know, do your very best. But sometimes you just have to let go of it and just let them keep on limping along because you don't have any control. It's like you know what I mean. You don't have any real control, the only control you have is to give good advice and hope they take it.
Speaker 2:What are your favorite kind of clients to work with?
Speaker 3:Well, I like service companies tend to be more in the small business arena and I like working with family businesses. I saw people do family business consulting that shouldn't be doing it. I followed a guy one time that over five years or six years had charged his family $300,000. And they were in worse shape when he left than when he arrived. And I would never do that. If you don't feel like you're making progress, I mean I couldn't take somebody's money. Either we're making progress and hitting the goals we set or I'm not going to fleece them. I saw that happening in other consulting circles. I just resolved I would never do that.
Speaker 1:Now, when you say family business, we've been talking about the mom and pop or the family trying to scale up. Are you talking them, or are you talking about the mom and pop or the family trying to scale up is? Are you talking them, or are you talking about the family office, the uber wealthy ones?
Speaker 3:oh, I'm talking about family, the scaling up people yeah, okay, you do want to just get to the real wealth?
Speaker 1:I do not yet no, not yet? No, I'm waiting, I'm waiting, you know they really want to.
Speaker 3:if they come to me and say we really want to scale up, I said okay, well, and we talk just like we're talking. Well, here's the deal. The deal If you really want to scale up, you've got to attract and retain talent, and you can't do that unless you build a meritocracy. Everybody knows that it's fair and they're going to come and make a good living and get appreciated, all the things that people want Now. And if that's not what you want, that's fine with me too. Let's just make your family business. You know it's about their goals, right? And at a certain point you can just say look, I've, I've given you my best advice. You're not taking it? Um, what do you want to do now?
Speaker 1:Like how about when you get in there and you do that, you attract and retain the, the, the. You're still there, you get to see them. Person comes in and gets completely rejected by the host. You're still there, you get to see them. Person comes in and gets completely rejected by the host. So talk about how that hasn't happened. I mean, it's happened. So we got to see this one.
Speaker 3:You mean like somebody, they hire somebody from outside and then they get beat up once they get there.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Beat the absolute I'm talking about. To use Southern phrases, they reject the Oregon. They absolutely spanked ass out of them. Before I'm gonna shoot him, right the freak out. Yeah, I want to hear that one well.
Speaker 3:But you know that person, if, if they're, if they're worth their salt, they're going to leave right. Either you can work out a win-win relationship where you're both achieving your goals, where your goals are aligned, or you can't so. But to me, and one of the things I do, one of the services I provide, you know, at my model, basic model is right business model, right team, right teamwork. So we do the strategic planning to make sure we got market potential to achieve their financial goals. I help them with key hires. I do a final vetting interview to make sure we've been right over 90% of the time, over 30 years, in choosing key employees. And then the teamwork part, conflict resolution, systems and processes, efficiency, that kind of stuff. So if I've helped make the hire and we knew this guy's good said, there's two things guys, you know. If you're going to bring in a high, you know an, a player or a high performance person, you're gonna have to feed them right once they get here because it's hiring them. It's just half the deal.
Speaker 1:So you know how do you know you're right when you're ready for it? So I literally uh just hired a general manager this year and it took me actually I'm being very honest now with everybody. It took me probably two years to pull the trigger because I've been telling everybody in my CEO group. It took me about a year.
Speaker 2:Well, because you're cheap and you're a power freak. But other than that, it was a good idea, right?
Speaker 1:Hey Doc, can you give him a PhD in being an asshole?
Speaker 3:You got to play with your strengths, man.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, well, those are my strengths Cheap and power-free. So it was hard, so I brought him in and actually a lot of help to make sure that I was ready for it mentally and also positioning him for success so he can continue to grow. Where do you feel like? What are some of the key things that we as power hungry, cheap assholes?
Speaker 2:thank you what do we need to work on? I didn't say asshole, it was just implied.
Speaker 1:It was implied.
Speaker 2:But it's accurate.
Speaker 3:It's a good question, chris, thank you. So what?
Speaker 1:that's, now forgotten the question so what do you need to do to prepare them to accept this person coming in? What are some of the biggest blind spots we have?
Speaker 3:oh well, you know the excuse me, the thing I said the general, like Chris, you know you're good at this and turning loose of it to trust somebody that they're going to take care of your clients, your customers, like you do. That's a big deal, right. So we talk about that, whether let's say, here are the pros and cons, here's the advantages and disadvantages you know there's only 24 hours in a day. If you want to scale up, like you said, we're going to have to move you more strategic and get you out of the day-to-day tactical stuff, or otherwise it's just impossible. So if that's important to you, then we get real clear on the roles.
Speaker 3:What's your role? What's his or her role? What, where you know? Where does it intersect? How are we going to, how are you going to, the performance evaluation? What you know? How are we going to measure their success? What's going to be the communication plan to make sure they keep you apprised and you don't get any rude surprises? You know they're not. You know everybody you hire is an emissary for your brand and for your company, right? So you want to make sure they're out there representing you in the way that you'd be proud of.
Speaker 1:That's where I feel like Alan has said a phrase to me that I've actually believe it or not.
Speaker 2:I've used it a couple of times, progressionally. He goes Chris, you're in a very reactive business.
Speaker 1:I'm in a more of a proactive business but as a business owner I found that as I brought more people on to be able to scale, I've had to turn myself into being more proactive, even though I'm not nearly as proactive as Alan. You can't be, I can't not in my world, but I've got to get out of the reactionary right. So how do you help these people? Because, again, small businesses trying to grow it up and get going. We just react right. Problem up problem solved. Problem up problem solved. Order up order solved. Problem up problem solved. Order up order delivered. Let's go.
Speaker 3:And I pitched. We look at it, we analyze it right. What are the pros and cons? What are you good at? What can only you do? Let's make sure you're you know and let's make sure you've got the range, like, for instance, anybody that works with me. I tell them I'm an advisor, I'm not a decision maker. I'm not going to come in there and try to tell you what to do. I'm going to make recommendations. Uh, they'll be right if you ignore them at your own peril what's up to you, see, so I do have a right.
Speaker 1:So when I say, you know what, we'll all get along a lot better as soon as you realize, I'm right I've said it.
Speaker 3:I tried that on my wife.
Speaker 2:It hasn't worked yeah, I think our wives have done that to us though yeah, that's funny but, but you know, I mean I'm.
Speaker 3:The pitch is people are nervous about that guy. And letting go of control right, it controls is everything. Look. It's like what can you control, what can you not? And it's like, look, if you're gonna scale up once again these, these, if you're going to scale up once again these tasks here you've got to do, because if you let somebody else do them, then it's not your company anymore and at the size you are, that's going to take up most of your time, the strategic stuff, right. So you need to figure out a way to delegate this other stuff that's eating up your strategic time. That's going to help you scale the company.
Speaker 3:So, getting the right people, people that you feel like, I look for two things competent and caring. They're good at what they do, they're fair with other people, they can work in a team right. Those are the two main qualities. And when I do an assessment interview, there's about seven main predictors and we'll get into more depth, yada, yada, yada, but I'm just saying those two basic things that you can say yeah, I'm going to turn a big portion of power in my company over to this man or this woman because I believe they'll treat my customers the way I would, and that's how we're going to succeed or my employees.
Speaker 2:Doc, when you were talking about when you engage with a client, the very first thing you do is strategic plan and I think for all the entrepreneurs listening, everybody knows they need to have goals. Can you talk about what's the value of a strategic plan? Because I've been in organizations where, oh, it's strategic planning time and it just was this exercise that we did because we were supposed to, but I don't really know if it actually ever hit the ground. So can you talk a little bit about the value of that, some of the things people are missing and the difference between that and just setting goals?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I think so. I've been trained in several different schools of strategic planning. I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is they overcomplicate everything, like in graduate school. They wanted to make everything complicated and you know you'd be studying a natch behind, and I wanted simple, actionable things that could help people. Well, the same thing with the strategic plan.
Speaker 3:It's like look at some people's mission statement. They get mission, vision, values. They throw it all into three paragraphs and you don't even know what it says, because by the time you get to the end of it you know so I'm going to mission, what do you do and for whom and where? Values what are your five or less core values? What are your top three strategic priorities? It's just a way to get people to prioritize so that when they wake up in the morning and go to work, you know they got. If you're an entrepreneur, you got a hundred things on your to-do list. My to-do list runs seven pages. I never get past the first page, but you got to prioritize and that's really what it's about. You say we can't be all things to all people.
Speaker 3:Let's focus on something we can actually succeed at play to our strengths, find a market niche where we can succeed, and so I keep it. It's simple, it's down to earth, it's not a lot of fancy, especially with small business. You don't need a guy traveling the country scouting out your competition, right, because that's not a big deal as an example for small businesses. So it's really about focus.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 3:A lot of times. They're all over the place. You've got these hardworking, smart people that are shooting out in all directions, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great analogy. If you're working in the Atlanta market, you don't need to have people going out there and doing price shopping in Tampa, florida or Jacksonville, florida or California, because it's not helping you locally.
Speaker 2:That's irrelevant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a lot of fun. So keep listening to this podcast. Don't forget Small Business Safari. Hey, if you're out there and you're listening, just man, go ahead, tap, let some people know that we're here, because here's what we're going to do. We're going to take a big shift and we're going to talk about really rich people, and I want to hear about these really great Doc.
Speaker 2:That's all he's been waiting for. I'm waiting. I want to Blah blah blah. Hey, blah blah blah.
Speaker 1:Scale your biz, because I'm in the middle of it, man. But I want to know Come on, these rich people. He wants to know when he can buy a boat, doc, and how big is my boat.
Speaker 3:Well, it's a. I'll just startled me. It came from Bill Gates Foundation, uber. Wealthy people are the least happy people in America, statistically.
Speaker 1:So look how happy I am. I must be ridiculously happy. I'm like a clown happy.
Speaker 3:They're four major sources of happiness. They spend too much time chasing money and not enough time on the others right. So that's why I think it's important to define success. How much money is enough money? I was having lunch with a guy that I went to junior high school with and he's one of the richest families, a member of one of the richest families in the state, and he said thanks for inviting me for lunch. I said, well, not a big deal, he said, because once you have some money, people are always trying to get their hand in your pocket. I mean you literally. He said it really changes your perspective on life. I mean so it's not. Every everybody thinks the more money you have, the happier you are. There's some sweet spot where you got plenty of money, but don't go, you know, don't get out of balance.
Speaker 2:You know, I already know what chris is thinking he goes. But if I make uber money, I can just hire people to get the people who have their hands in my pocket out of my pocket. Right, that's what I think I'm like. I'm like I you know what?
Speaker 1:maybe I should consult these uber wealthy people on. Hey guys, you can be happy like me, that's right, because I am happy as a clam, being poor as shit, doing what I'm doing running a business in the handyman business, by the way don't ever pick that one man, because it's been 16 years of pure freaking hell. I'm kidding. But, I'm happy. Well, I am going to do a Pelican scheme.
Speaker 3:That's the biggest takeaway to me is you got a caring relationship with yourself, caring relationships with other people family, friends, business, work you love doing and enough money to pay your bills with some Relationship with yourself. Caring relationships with other people you know family, friends, business, da-da-da-da, work you love doing and enough money to pay your bills with some left over for fun. I mean from the research in positive psychology.
Speaker 1:So if you spend too much time on any one of those, you get out of balance and you don't get all the joy you could out of life. Right, you know that? Amen, you're actually. You're preaching everything we talk about. All jokes aside, I think you've hit it right on the head.
Speaker 1:It is hard to find that balance between how much is enough, how much family is enough, because people say, oh, I want to spend all my time with my family. I'm like, all right, let's get real. Really, you really don't, I mean. So there's a balance that you want to find and we all have to find that work-life balance. And, by the way, it is not a 50-50 split for many of us. Right, it's definitely going to be swayed towards work. That's just what it is. But if you make work part of who you are and what you do, but it satisfies your ego and your id and it helps you go and I'm using psychology words that I don't really understand, but I figured I'd dock on, so I gave it a shot, but you do that but you find your fun, right, and you have those fun in those outlets. And here's what I found Sometimes, the harder I dug, the worse it got. And sometimes when I just let go, and I went to a ball game and woke up the next morning I went oh, that's right, got it.
Speaker 2:And you let your brain refresh.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Sure. Well, you know the cool thing.
Speaker 2:Hard to do, though that's a hard. I'm sorry, doc.
Speaker 3:The cool thing about being an entrepreneur is that you have the control and you can make it what you want to make it Right. I mean, as long as I mean that's when I launched my business I just I've had 34 paying jobs, starting with probably mowing lawns. When I went just every one of them Right, starting with probably mowing lawns. When I went just every one of them Right, and I thought, as long as somebody else is in charge, I'm going to. You know, like, uh, you know who? Farrah Gray is the serial entrepreneur. He said. He said build your dreams or somebody else will hire you to build theirs. You know, I said, at least if, if you're the entrepreneur, if you're the guy in charge, you can do things your way and the kind of life you want.
Speaker 1:So that's the allure, of course, Sorry, I hit the wrong thing, the wrong button. I was leaning over, did you?
Speaker 2:just show how the sausage was made to all of our Galaxy members.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, well, I hit the audio. I hit the mute button when I went to hit something else. Doc, this has been awesome to talk about this. Of course, we didn't talk enough. Uber wealthy people, so can we find out what's the biggest yacht you've ever been on? The biggest what Yacht, yacht, see, I got him laughing.
Speaker 2:How about that? See, look how happy he was being on that yacht.
Speaker 1:Steve, you were happy I brought you back to a great time. Come on how big was it?
Speaker 3:There you go, well, the biggest yacht, right?
Speaker 3:Well, I'm prone to seasickness, so I don't spend a lot of time on yachts, all right, biggest gun you ever shot, oh, now, we used to go. One had a client for seven years until they sold and everybody got rich but me, and of course I knew I had to raise my fees at that point. But uh, we used to go on there. Uh, we'd go on these quarterly retreats and we'd go, uh, drink fine wine and shoot sporting plays, sometimes both at the same time, which was a little nice quality day right there.
Speaker 2:Well that's the way to do strategic update planning right there yeah, that's the way I get very strategic when I'm drinking fine wine, shooting guns. You know what we're? We're doing it Bird's being thrown out of your cage.
Speaker 1:We're going shooting in Alan because I don't shoot guns, quick aside, but this is a good one. Same thing I'm in a monthly CEO group. Everybody knows that. That's what really helps me fine-tune and really hone into my business a lot and keeps me accountable to what I'm doing. We had one at what's called the Kennesaw Governor's Club Governor's Gun Club, and downstairs at this Governor's Gun Club they have a 100-yard range but it's underground and you shoot through a tunnel and they're like, hey, we're all going to go down and do that.
Speaker 2:So it's a gun range.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, but downstairs in a bunker and Chris doesn't shoot guns. So they're like, hey, lean on in. Hey, it's going to be a big kickback. I'm like, no problem, got it. I dial in, man, I'm looking at that thing and there's eight of us in this little bunker. I swear to God, it looked like something out of World War II. And I'm dialed in and I'm looking, I'm looking down the range and I'm looking at my scope and boom, it hits me right in the head, right in my eye. Were you shooting a pistol? No, it was a rifle.
Speaker 2:You hit yourself in the head with the butt of a rifle. The scope of the rifle, oh the scope.
Speaker 1:I was like, oh God, I'm an idiot bro. I mean. So here I am with eight people, can't leave. I am spewing blood like a stuck hog. I mean I'm done and I got my head over it. I don't want to tell everybody. So I got my hand over it, I'm going, let me go to the back. Let me go to the back and then spare pills to shoot. But I want to tell all these other CEOs hey, this moron doesn't even know how to shoot a gun it was so.
Speaker 3:So uh, with the boats. You know what I'm not seasickness, so I want a big yacht. We don't do in my ceo round table for the small businessman we we don't shoot guns, so uh, send us people who are not gun shooters if they're not good, we'll take them okay all right, doc, this has been awesome.
Speaker 1:So tell everybody how they can get a hold of you, terry. Doc, dockery, give us how we can find you. Let's go out there. We'll get out there and show notes. I want to hear him play his harp, and well, do that.
Speaker 2:And then we'll play the harp and we'll get out of here all right well no, I mean, I want to go to a smoky club with barbecue and listen to him. Oh, that kind of heart.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I'll, let you guys know I'll. I'll ramp up my email list again and get folks out.
Speaker 1:Good yeah, we're coming. We're going to be the front row, like a bunch of groupies too.
Speaker 3:And watch us go. We haven't yet. Well, the young girls won't look at me anymore, but you guys can cheer me on. You know what I'm saying, that's right.
Speaker 1:I don't think the young girls are looking at us either.
Speaker 3:The resolvefirmcom. We resolve business conundrums, so TheResolveFirmcom that's the best way to look me up.
Speaker 1:TheResolveFirmcom. We'll put it in the show notes. That's amazing. You guys got to go check this guy out. You wrote a book too. Oh my God, you know what? You'll see that probably on the Reservecom website, because I did too.
Speaker 3:So what's the name of your book? The book is Leadership, happiness and Profit 12 Steps to a High Performance Business.
Speaker 2:It's on Amazon.
Speaker 1:Let's make it happen, and if you're here in Atlanta, we're going to hook you up If you guys want. If you're here in Atlanta and you want to go listen to some good music, Alan and I are going to go because Doc's going to put us on the list. If you want to find out, Chris at the Trusted Toolbox, hit me up on the email.
Speaker 2:Oh, we can have a listener party.
Speaker 1:And we're going to have a listener party here in Atlanta. You know what? Let's do it.
Speaker 3:Hell yeah, all right, let's do it. You guys are on. All right, let All right.
Speaker 2:Doc, roll us out of here, with a little harp, let's go.
Speaker 1:Hit some, you got some. Well, anyhow I could go on for days and we could listen for days. Cheers Doc that was awesome.
Speaker 2:Thanks, doc, gary, doc, doc, take care, we're out of here.
Speaker 1:Cheers, Doc that was awesome.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Doc.
Speaker 1:Gary, Doc, Doc, we're out of here. We got to go. Keep making it better every single day. We got it. We're just going to make it happen. Cheers everybody.
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