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The Small Business Safari
Have you ever sat there and wondered "What am I doing here stuck in the concrete zoo of the corporate world?" Are you itching to get out? Chris Lalomia and his co-host Alan Wyatt traverse the jungle of entrepreneurship. Together they share their stories and help you explore the wild world of SCALING your business. With many years of owning their own small businesses, they love to give insight to the aspiring entrepreneur. So, are you ready to make the jump?
The Small Business Safari
Unveiling Business Growth Strategies: Insights with Ellen Rohr on Tech, Trades, and Entrepreneurial Success
Charging more than it costs to provide a service was a revelation that transformed my entrepreneurial journey—and it might just transform yours too. Join us as we unpack this pivotal lesson and more with special guest Ellen Rohr from the Home Service Institute. Ellen shares her wealth of knowledge from the home services industry, helping us navigate business growth with practical insights and laughter. We also take a trip down memory lane to my recent visit to Texas, including the gargantuan facilities at Baylor University and a light-hearted sushi story that challenges the notion that it's all brisket in the Lone Star State.
Our conversation takes an exciting twist as we dive into the world of CRM systems and technology in business. After facing challenges with Service Titan, we discuss the transition to FieldPulse and the importance of finding the right tech fit for smaller companies. Ellen, with her inspiring story of saving her husband's plumbing business, provides expert advice on both technological and business solutions. This episode is a treasure trove of tips on overcoming tech challenges, illustrated with personal anecdotes and Ellen's vast industry experience.
Finally, we shine a spotlight on the often-underappreciated trades industry, celebrating the unsung heroes and the essential role they play in our lives. Ellen shares her journey from questioning business finances to becoming a leading figure in the trades, with stories of success, resilience, and innovation. Our discussion underscores the power of customer service, strategic growth, and pursuing what truly matters. Whether you're a seasoned entrepreneur or just starting out, this episode promises to inspire and equip you with the right tools for your business adventures.
From the Zoo to Wild is a book for entrepreneurs passionate about home services, looking to move away from corporate jobs. Chris Lalomia, a former executive, shares his path, discoveries, and tools to succeed as a small business owner in home improvement retail. The book provides the mindset, habits, leadership style, and customer-oriented processes necessary to succeed as a small business owner in home services.
I figured out where my asset and my elbows were and I started to get smarter and it was like I was born again. It really had this like dramatic transformative effect on me. Like wait a minute, you charge more than it costs and you make your own money. It was like but I didn't learn that. I didn't learn it in college. I didn't learn it, you know, my whole life. It never, never connected with me. So once I learned it, I started preaching. You know, I was trying to get my friends in on it and I'll tell you, early on all I got was criticism from my fellow contractors.
Speaker 2:You're going to ruin the industry.
Speaker 1:You're going to price yourself out of the market. You're giving plumbers a bad rep. I got no love early on.
Speaker 3:Why were they reacting that way?
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Small Business Safari where I help guide you to avoid those traps, pitfalls and dangers that lurk when navigating the wild world of small business ownership. I'll share those gold nuggets of information and invite guests to help accelerate your ascent to that mountaintop of success. It's a jungle out there and I want to help you traverse through the levels of owning your own business that can get you bogged down and distract you from hitting your own personal and professional goals. So strap in adventure team and let's take a ride through the safari and get you. Alan's good to be back in studio. Get ready to rock and roll. Everybody. Put up those windows so you can hear this. Turn up that volume, because this is gonna get big. This is big time today. Baby, it's gonna be on youtube if you can't see it.
Speaker 2:We have the infamous ellen rohr home service institute and she's just amazing. I was trying to come up with all these alliterations, but she is just the best. She's rockin sockin. Everybody anybody who's in home services who knows ellen rohr knows that this lady is. It's not just a lady, man, I mean. She's a vibe, she's in it, she's a presence, she's an entity. She is an entity rock dog breaking it down, man people.
Speaker 1:I am not going to interrupt. You keep go, go, going, go, go go.
Speaker 3:So, ellen, we've never met, but I already know you're a big deal, because normally we talk about what Chris has done the last week or so whenever we podcast and it's always this amazing stuff well and you know we might have to talk about that for just a sec.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, yeah, because yes, yes.
Speaker 3:So go ahead and ask me what I've been doing all right wait.
Speaker 2:What have you been doing?
Speaker 3:you know, I know you're not that interested in it, so tell me what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Thank god, I said that, so check this out. A couple weeks ago, my son, who's going to be going to Baylor for law school yes, um, we flew into Dallas on the Georgia Texas football weekend. Oh my, I know, yeah, but I didn't go. But I flew in, we went down to Baylor, checked out Waco I was actually, if you've never been to Waco Texas, which is owned by Magnolia now and, uh, chip and Joanna Gaines, but the Baylor campus. I was there and I'm looking at this incredibly huge facility. I'm like, oh, that's where they play basketball, because they're really good. And I turn around I'm like, hey, it says Welcome Center. Then I turn around and there's the basketball stadium who dwarfs the Welcome Center? That dwarfed, chris. This Welcome Center is the biggest thing you've ever seen. It's Texas, dude, it was Texas. Welcome center is the biggest thing you've ever seen. It's texas, dude, it was texas.
Speaker 1:You saw some texas flags so we went all the way there. Well, and waco. Waco is also the home of neighborly that's right neighborly franchise. Yeah, neighborly's in waco, whoa I should.
Speaker 2:I should have called it, but finish your story.
Speaker 1:There's a lot that's everything's bigger in texas.
Speaker 2:That's everything's bigger in texas. So I get here, start talking to my buddies. I'm like they're like oh, so you had some brisket, you had some barbecue. I said, well, no, as a matter of fact, I had sushi, what I know my wife's not a meat eater and we met up with our friends in Dallas and they're like oh, we have this incredible sushi place. And I went, oh, okay.
Speaker 3:So you got called a Yankee, didn't you?
Speaker 2:Actually, somebody did ask me if I was Canadian as I was talking, and they go. So where are you from? Are you from Canada? I said no, but I did go to school north of where most Canadians live, so I got that going for me.
Speaker 3:I wonder how many people on the earth have ever said, hey, I went to Texas and had their sushi.
Speaker 2:No, I'm on it, I'm breaking ground here. Then what do I do? I get back and I go to our beloved Atlanta Falcons playing the Seahawks. They go in there and lay an absolute egg.
Speaker 3:I remember texting you. I hope you're not at today's game. It was a lot of expletives deleted.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we don't have those on the podcast as much anymore, but there are a lot of Fs in there, so then they went down there and took care of the Buccaneers. So now I'm trying to decide if I'm going to go to the Dallas game that's coming up. But that is the life right now that I'm leading is we just implemented a CRM system. So those are my little joys of fun that I've got in the middle of it. But when you implement a new CRM system and we'll probably have to talk about that, especially with Ellen, about this man it has been a nine-month problem. Have you noticed that? I've heard of this.
Speaker 1:Oh well, yeah, that's going to happen. What is?
Speaker 2:that. That's Service Titan.
Speaker 1:Who's your CRM?
Speaker 2:So I just switched to FieldPulse. So I did talk with Service Titan. They told me I was too small.
Speaker 3:I'm like, huh, I did not realize. A six million dollar company, I'm kind of a big deal.
Speaker 2:I was like I got a podcast and everything.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean top 5%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I know Ellen, who I know has ended. You dropped her name, right? I didn't actually, because I talked to one of the original people and they're like, what do you do? I said, well, I'll be a handyman, a remodeling business. They're like I don't think it's a good fit for us.
Speaker 3:I said, oh okay, well, let's go look at something else that was getting to the know quickly. Right, they did quick. They sampled you. Yeah, they did get me.
Speaker 1:We have a question about that we have a question about that, that we can address this later. One of the things I do is I work with Service Titan and I love Service Titan. I'm a Service Titan customer for a long time and Service Titan wants to be sure that their product is a good fit, as you would do, as you're working with a customer. But I've got some tips on CRMs of all shapes and stripes so we can talk about that for sure.
Speaker 2:There's going to be a lot of nuggets tips and you're going to have to just hold on because there's going to be so many great things, ellen, I think for a lot of our listeners. I don't know if they necessarily know everything, but I've heard the story. Why don't you give us the short story of how you saved your husband's business?
Speaker 3:Have you actually introduced her? Oh, she froze. Did I freeze? She froze.
Speaker 2:She froze, she froze. Did I freeze, she froze, she froze? Oh no, all right, like I was saying, alan, before you so rudely froze, ellen. I don't know what you did, but you cast like this little spell on the screen.
Speaker 3:She looked even frozen. I know I got frozen. It would be like all nostrils and it would be nasty.
Speaker 2:Yeah, with daggers coming out of the fangs. All right, let's get into this. So, as with everything in the world, when technology is awesome, technology is awesome. When it's not, it sucks, it does suck.
Speaker 3:Have you introduced our guest?
Speaker 2:yet. No, all right, we have. Wow, there's so many things to introduce, so let's, I just don't know if I can, but I will, you look really excited.
Speaker 3:I am Deep breaths, deep breaths.
Speaker 2:All right. So Ellen Rohr started, not in the business, but she was watching the business happen in a very close and personal situation, as she watched her husband run his plumbing business and she wanted to know where all the money was. This sounds familiar. I might be having that same problem 16 years into it Where's all the money going? So she saw that. She said I think I can help him out and his name is so flipping cool you can't into it. Well, where's all the money going? So she saw that and she said, hmm, I think I can help him out and his name is so flipping cool you can't forget it. It is Ellen Hot Rod, hot Rod.
Speaker 3:Hot Rod, hot Rod. So cool, I'm going to change my name. Can you start with where she is now, all right, and then we can go back.
Speaker 2:So let's start. So let's start All right. So today, Ellen, you're in Zoom Drain as an operator, or do you actually own a couple of the franchises?
Speaker 1:I am a founder and a board member and an investor in the franchisor. She's the grandpapa, so I don't own individual franchises. I'm part owner of the company-owned store and the franchisor. So we have 60 locations now and it's why I color my hair and I absolutely love it. But on the day to day I also work with Service Titan as their brand and industry marketing lead, heading up a brand ambassador program that I'm very excited about.
Speaker 2:So that's a new role for you, right.
Speaker 1:I've been a ServiceTitan customer for a long time. I love ServiceTitan and I thought I could do some good for Zoom Drain from within the ServiceTitan world just by learning how to use it better just as a regular customer. But also I like to shed a light on cool people in this industry. I absolutely love the trades, I love people who fix things and my position is primarily to introduce new voices and up-and-coming people, as well as old salts, within our industry who are big personalities with a point of view like you guys. So I'm really happy to be here. That's my primary job.
Speaker 3:Look at Chris, just got bigger, you know what I'm in the small chair.
Speaker 2:Ellen, I got to get pumped up. I don't care if you're 6'8 or not, but that isn't even half of it.
Speaker 3:She started a venture capital firm. She's written books. She's been on TV on every network you can possibly name I on every network you can possibly name, I mean Alan I want to know what does Chris have over on you to get you on our podcast?
Speaker 1:Oh, you guys love it and also have like a big diva complex. So I love all of this flattery, but what happens is you just live long enough and I'm just the kind of person and maybe you can relate to this too. If there's something I need to learn, I will crawl across cut glass to find people who know something about that. So I've been to thousands of shops, probably in my life at this point. I've looked at you know all sorts of financial reports. I've dug into the you know weeds with all kinds of contractors of all stripes in an effort to learn what makes a successful business and how can I adopt that myself, as well as share that with people with whom I work, either as a client or as a podcaster myself or as a franchisor. I'm interested in the basics, the few things that really matter, and I like to hear different people's take on that and how they were successful and what they've avoided and what interesting stories and scars they have from the mistakes they've made.
Speaker 3:Ellen, I got to thank you right now. You finally just described Chris perfectly for me. Yeah right, and we're not alone. Big diva, complex, I've got one buddy.
Speaker 2:There's no doubt about it. That's right. He's lucky. I even let him go on screen today. Everybody, if you're going to go out to the youtube, don't forget to check out our youtube channel.
Speaker 3:I know he actually I don't know what like if you change your meds or what he's like. Hey, I need to get you in the screen because normally he really doesn't care about that, no, I usually let he only you only get like half of his head.
Speaker 2:Can I say something?
Speaker 3:and then chris will be he'll twist his cup a little bit and I'm like, okay, I'll pour you another drink.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, you've got like beer pong going on over there.
Speaker 3:Actually we're drinking bourbon. We're in the South.
Speaker 2:We got to unlock our creative juices, buddy, so that's what we do. We got to have a little bourbon, drink it up. And then he also. And don't forget to tell me that, hey, my bike sounds a little low, and then I'll act like I'm moving something and I'll just turn it down lower. No, you can't do that. That's horrible. You guys are fun, all right. So, ellen, you uh this brand ambassador position, this uh this sounds really cool.
Speaker 2:So this allows you the opportunity to go out and meet with other people. Tell us what you've been doing with that.
Speaker 1:Well, what Red Bull is to extreme sports service Service Titan intends to be to tradespeople. We're going to hold your beer, we're going to shine a spotlight, we're going to create experiences and, you know, energy towards people who again have a big personality and have a point of view and represent the trades. I love, love, love tradespeople, and I started with. You know that love began when I met my husband.
Speaker 2:First off his name's.
Speaker 1:Hod, you know. So I married him. But then, you know, as I got to know him, he's a plumber. But as a kid growing up we called people. My dad wasn't handy, you know. We needed something. We called somebody. They came and I just thought it was a miracle, didn't work, works now, didn't even think about it.
Speaker 1:And then I got to know Hot Rod and his cool friends and as someone who doesn't have any skills whatsoever, I always say if I were on that TV show Survivor, I would just die, I would sit there until I died, there would be no activity whatsoever, because I don't know how to do these things, but because of Hot Rod and his cool friends I developed this deep appreciation for people who are so competent in the material world, who can keep good water from bad water and prevent more disease than doctors have ever cured, like the plumbers and the drain cleaners, who create weather and remodeling, like you, keep us protected from the outside world I mean trades. People promote survivability of mankind on the planet. Like none of this is lost on me. I'm I'm dazzled by it every day, and so, starting with hot rod and then just through every phase of my life, a big motivator for me me has been to shine a light on these awesome people and the trades in general and then help them make more money.
Speaker 1:I just like deserve to make a lot of money. So that's definitely been a thread through everything that I've done.
Speaker 3:You know I'm not a very excitable person. I'm excited now.
Speaker 2:See, you are excited.
Speaker 3:We need cool names like Hot Rod. Do his friends have cool names too?
Speaker 1:The name of their company. Interestingly, once upon a time Hot Rod and his best friend Yox created Hot Rod and Yox plumbing, heating and solar back in the 1970s. Now we sold our company in 1995.
Speaker 3:So, bad ass.
Speaker 1:And the guys still operate under Hot Rod and Yachts and it makes me very proud.
Speaker 2:I love it. Oh my gosh, that's wild.
Speaker 1:There's nicknames are good. I like nicknames All right.
Speaker 2:So you guys, obviously you sold in 95, that became a pivot point for you and your fam. And that's when, when you started to branch out I know you got into Zoom Drain actually more recently.
Speaker 1:What'd you do right after that? Well, and then I think it's important to know. It's like a couple of the milestones, just like you know. How I got to here is when we were working together, my husband's partner, yox, died at 33, worked himself into a health crisis and died. It was terrible. And then that's when I raised my hand and said I'll quit my real job, I'll come work with you, I'll count the money, we'll get rich, you turn wrenches. None of that happened. All we did was fight, and it was really, really stressful, and not an uncommon tale among mom pop shops, you know.
Speaker 3:Um so what happened is money.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, it's easy right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, but yeah, because here's what happens though. Yeah, wow, but yeah, because here's what happens though. Is that, um, I would say we don't have enough money, and he would hear I'm not good enough.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's what I hear. You see what I mean, I mean it's so stressful.
Speaker 3:I mean hypothetically business and marriage counseling all in one.
Speaker 1:You're right, yeah, you're right. And so what? And that's I, you know. When you said what happened next? That's pretty pivotal. But so what happened is I found Frank Blau, my first mentor, in the pages of a plumbing trade magazine. Now we have blogs and podcasts and websites and YouTube channels and all sorts of way to get information, but once upon a time, it was the trade magazines, and they're still relevant because smart people will write a column or be in interview.
Speaker 1:This is what kind of set me on the path, and Frank was the one who taught me. I wrote him a letter. He helped me out. It's a. It's a. It's a funny story overall. But basically he hit me with a brick, frank Blau, and just said you're a knucklehead, close your business. You don't know what you're doing. Unless you figure out the financials, the balance sheet and the profit loss, you don't have a hope. And so I did. I figured out where my asset and my elbows were and I started to get smarter and it was like I was born again. It really had this like dramatic, transformative effect on me. Like wait a minute, you charge more than it costs and you make your own money. It was like. But I didn't learn that. I didn't learn it in college. I didn't learn it, you know, my whole life. It never, never connected with me. So once I learned it, I started preaching. You know, I was trying to get my friends in on it and I'll tell you, early on, all I got was criticism from my fellow contractors.
Speaker 2:You're going to ruin the industry.
Speaker 1:You're going to price yourself out of the market. You're giving plumbers a bad rep. I got no love early on.
Speaker 3:Why were they reacting that way?
Speaker 1:Well, Frank Blau says and I agree with him that it's a self-esteem issue, that there are a lot of people in our lives who are going to wear a patch instead of a tie and they're not going to feel like they deserve that now $400, $500, $600 an hour, baked into your flat rate price or whatever. But because I never had that perspective, because, as someone who was ultimately like a customer, who didn't know how to do these things, I'm like don't you want the good stuff? Don't you want people who know what they're doing, who are trained, who show up clean, sober, on time, dressed right, use a checklist? Don't you want those people to come to your house? Don't we want to be those people?
Speaker 1:Like, from my perspective always, as like a consumer, I didn't get it, but over the years I found that that's really the biggest issue. You know, one of the things I'm going to jump around here a little bit, but one of the things that I'll ask kids who come on board at Zoom Drain. I'll ask them did you tell your mom you're going to be a drain cleaner? Yeah, what did she say? Was she happy about that?
Speaker 2:No no.
Speaker 1:And then you know you can start the conversation. Well, you might want to share with your mom that drain cleaners keep good water from bad water. It is the essential service that provides survivability of mankind on the planet. 70% of the world doesn't have adequate sanitation and they deal with diseases like E coli and diphtheria and all sorts of things that are gonna kill them. And this is an honorable profession. You can make a lot of money. You can work anywhere in the world. 30% of the world poops on the ground. That's how essential these services are, and we're going to help you become a first rate professional drain cleaner.
Speaker 2:So I think that's going to be the title of our podcast. Don't be like 30% of the world. Don't poop yourself.
Speaker 3:You got to run your business the right way. The world poops on the ground.
Speaker 2:I need like a heat map just so I know where to not go. Because Alan's going to retire soon. He's like I want to travel the world, but I want to travel not where those 30% are In the not poop zone.
Speaker 1:You know, I think like you don't realize these things right. And then look at electricians they wrangle lightning and HVAC guys create weather. Like you know, air conditioning didn't even, you know, exist until the 1950s, and now it's an essential thing. And what happens is tradespeople overall are so good at what they do that society and lack of self-esteem on the part of the contractors have led people to believe that these are somehow God-given rights and they are not. So like this has just been really been.
Speaker 1:My path is that, starting with Hot Rod, starting with our business, I'm like why aren't we charging a lot of money? These guys are putting it out there every day and we're not making it. I'm gonna raise my prices or I'm gonna go out of business. And I thought if I raised my prices, going back to the 1990s when I was figuring this out, I thought no one would call anyway. But I was so sick and tired of how we would live we're living, of hot rod going out every Christmas, of just around the clock, of just all the stress, or guys not making enough money, all the you know the brutal parts of being an entrepreneur without any of the reward. Thank you, I was okay with doing something else, but I figured well, let's try this. Frank Blau recommends that I quintuple my prices. Let's try it, see if anybody calls.
Speaker 3:And as it's not going to happen-. Hey, by the way, ellen, I just want to go on record. No, chris, I already called you today, before your price is quintupled, to come over and do something at my house. Yes, oh, no, quintupled.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, I'm sorry that that estimate only lasted 30 seconds. Quintupled is a lot. That pricing was only a lot. That is a lot, I mean yeah, well, at the time it was, it was like going from like 30 to 150 yeah, you might not have quintuple them, yeah, but I mean, at the time we were charging like 30 an hour.
Speaker 1:Why? Because our competitors were charging 35. Wow, because that's what we? I mean it was just knucklehead. Every dumb thing I make fun of people about I've done. So what happened is I did it like a little break even. We went to 112.50.
Speaker 1:I remember that was my first like oh my God, the sphincter tightening over $100 an hour when the rest of my community was charging $35 an hour and they were charging time and material. I mean, like going back, you guys are much too young for this, but that big, that move to flat rate was the big deal. That was like that. That was like what separated the folks who were ready to do this professionally from those who were just like not having it. And most people were not having it, and it was a few people. Like Frank Blau, like George Brazil, like you know, contractors 2000, once Upon a Time now they're called Nextar was really influential in creating a lot of smart business people and raising the esteem of the contractor, you know. So they did a lot of good and I was part of all that, which was neat.
Speaker 1:But here's what happened Once we turned our little company around. We didn't go out of business, we just made more money. We got out of debt and I'm starting to go. Oh my God, this is so exciting. We were at four trucks, let's go to eight trucks. We were in Park City, utah, let's tackle the Salt Lake Valley, like I had plans. And then I went to my husband, hot Rod the plumber, and said well, what do you want to do now?
Speaker 1:And he said I want to work all by myself, which meant Do not grow, do not deal with morons, right, but what's important?
Speaker 1:and then when you said, like, what happened next? What's important is you get to do what you want. In fact, you have a responsibility to do what you want in life. That's how I feel. And he didn't want to work with me and I don't blame him now, like at the time. It was really traumatic, but it was his business. And there are a lot of people who are technicians who don't want to grow and they don't love the employee responsibility and would rather, you know, turn wrenches and there is a way to make money as a solopreneur out there and that's really who he is. So I wish I'd learned this lesson earlier in my marriage, but it's. I started to understand that my husband wasn't going to do what I wanted him to do. I couldn't change him. It was none of my business what he wanted to do, other than the fact of deciding if we could live together and work separately.
Speaker 2:But do you get what I'm saying Can you call our wives. Ellen.
Speaker 1:I know right. No, I relapse.
Speaker 2:Not that my wife has ever, ever listened to this podcast.
Speaker 3:I'm in trouble. Yeah, oh, she's been on a streak lately, oh yeah, but you know on my best days and my best days, I try not to tell people what to do.
Speaker 1:Now, as a consultant, that's tricky, like so. Then you know, as as we decide, okay, you get to be who you want. And then I have to think, okay, now what am I going to do? Because my whole game plan had been if I could only get hot rod to do what I want him to do, oh, isn't that horrible. Even as I say it, it makes me kind of sick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, but some, some family businesses work great together. We just didn't. And because his vision was different from mine neither of us were wrong, but it was his company we decided to sell the company to our employees. Hot Rod went off to start a couple of solo entrepreneur, solopreneur businesses that rocked it and that left me with this like soul searching moment of like. Okay, now, what am I going to do? But what I knew is I wanted to see if I had the chops to run a bigger company. I knew that I don't know where it came from, I don't know why, but that was like a burning desire, and I didn't know how it was going to work, because the one vehicle that I had that I thought we were going to use to do that now was no longer at my disposal. So what I did is I went through some soul searching. I encourage people to go through midlife crises.
Speaker 1:We moved to Missouri, we bought a farm, I started taking classes and reading books. Mark Victor Hansen said to me when I went to one of his seminars once he's the chicken soup for the soul guy. He said, oh, if you don't know your purpose, your purpose is to find it. And I thought, okay, okay, I'm looking, I'm searching and I knew I wanted to be in business. I knew I wanted to grow, but I didn't know how I was going to do it. So I started writing for the magazines. I started, I wrote my books. Where did the money go? How much did I charge? The bare bones biz plan, the weekend biz plan. I've written four books and I wrote them during this time because this was the information that had turned our company around. I wanted to share with other mom and pop shops and I did. I started consulting and speaking and writing and then one day I was doing a seminar and at the end of the seminar, jim Abrams who was the principal investor at Venvest, which became Clockworks, which then became Authority Brands right, he comes up to me and he says how would you like to run the world, the country's largest home service company? And I said yes, and that was what became Benjamin Franklin, the punctual plumber.
Speaker 1:Now here's the point of that. Like I just said, yes, being 100 percent unqualified to do that fit, but it was aligned with whatever this itch was that I had to scratch. You see where I'm going. So the point when you said what happened next. What happened next is like, ask yourself these questions what do I want to do? Why do I want to do it? Be willing to have those really vulnerable conversations. Read the books, take the classes.
Speaker 1:A book recommend Daring Greatly by Brene Brown, like what is it that you're willing to fail for, but that you have to explore in your own life. And that was something I wanted to do, and so I got the opportunity to work with them and it was brutal. I have scars to show for it. I made a zillion mistakes. However, benjamin Franklinlin, once we started, I was employee number one. Um, we grew to 47 locations in under two years and then that got packaged up with part of authority brands.
Speaker 1:Now I left after three years and there you know just and I'll tell you about that in a second but the idea was it gave me this opportunity to scratch that itch. I learned so much in those three years about, you know, keeping it simple, focusing on the basics. You know you will fail every day massively. What is one or two things you can do each day that is aligned with the overall game plan? How do you take it like a duck? How do you take the arrows? One of the things I learned about being a leader is and and you know this is like maybe your primary job is just to take the arrows.
Speaker 2:That was my job in corporate America. Take the arrows, baby.
Speaker 1:I took a lot of the arrows, and that's a big job, Like that's a legit job, and so I learned all that. I learned so much then. And then, you know, this whole time visiting contractors, selling franchises, getting know, I learned a lot about sales, about people, about personality mapping, a motivational mapping, leadership styles, project management. You know, all of that was kind of rolled into it. Now, when we were in about three years, I remember Jim Abrams said to me I hope he hears this he says OK, well, here we are. I didn't think you'd make it. It's OK, well, here we are. I didn't think you'd make it. It's his opening line, but here we are.
Speaker 3:How do you really feel?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and he says so now all of the presidents of the organizations that were in the, the investment company, all of them are moving to Sarasota. And you know it dawned on me then I wasn't happy with the whole, with a lot of what I was dealing with in that position, and I thought, first off, if I went to Florida, I thought I don't think I'm going to like it. And secondly, my dad had dementia. He lived with us on our property. You know I just wasn't going to move. But here's a really important part Once you figure out how to make money, someone could take all my money away from me and I'd sell something to somebody and I'd be back in business tomorrow Like my confidence and understanding how business worked had solidified.
Speaker 2:That's a great point right there and we need to talk more about that, because you have that confidence and sometimes we run in fear, saying I'm going to stay in this lane, that maybe. I'm not in and when I fail, I can't get back on my feet and get back up again, but what does it mean? To learn how to make money.
Speaker 3:All right.
Speaker 1:Sell stuff for more than it costs.
Speaker 3:So I've watched some of your videos and you say it and everybody knows that. So is the problem people don't know what their cost basis is, or are they a?
Speaker 1:lot of the time okay or is it time, like they? You know that. So okay, so what would the? What are the three main? Okay, oh, I'm so glad we're talking about this. So what is are?
Speaker 3:you saying that was a good question what's such a good question?
Speaker 2:ellen we. We're a little competitive here and it's one nothing and I'm now losing 1-0.
Speaker 1:All right, let's answer the question this takes us on now currently. I mean just to catch up. So then I left Benjamin Franklin super proud of what it's become. I think there's 500 million units, authority brands it's sold a couple times, made a lot of people, a lot of money. I learned a lot and then I started Zoom Drain like 15 years later. In the meantime, consulting Consulting is a great business. It's a lot of fun. You can't tell people what to do, but you may be able to educate and magnetize. Had some wins and losses there, but I had so much experience and then we started Zoom Drain. I love Zoom Drain. I started it with my best friends, al Levy and Jim Crenitty, and I'm still on the board. I'm one of the founders and we continue to grow. And now I have this awesome opportunity to talk to you guys and to represent with Service Titan as well. That's my story. That's where I am with a.
Speaker 1:Every business exists for one reason. You may have your own personal whys and missions and purposes in life, but the business itself exists only to increase in enterprise value. That is the purpose of every business. That the business has to survive is the primary goal. Purpose, why of the actual business? Self-preservation, 10-4?.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It has to exist, right. So self-preservation it has to exist, and it does that by increasing an enterprise value. So how do you increase an enterprise value? There are three main KPIs for any business sales, profit and cash. Business is not complicated, okay. Now there's a lot of ways to do business, but every business needs enough in sales and the priority of them suppose you're starting from scratch the priority of them are sales Sell something to somebody and get some fuel, all right. And then profit is next Sell stuff for more than it costs. And, to your point, alan, if you don't know, you're going to make that mistake.
Speaker 1:When I first started figuring out a balance sheet and the profit loss, it was sickening. I can still feel my stomach hurt when I realized we've just been losing money for years and if you do that mathematically you have to go into debt. So debt's going up and you know people, our supply houses loaning us money. We've got stuff on credit cards Like you can go into debt for a long time in this great country, right, we have a debt problem. So first is sales, second is then you've got to get profitable, and the third is that profit has to be taken in cash and be big enough to pay down whatever debt you've incurred and then provide survivability for this entity. So when you do this well, you create sales and profits in cash, your enterprise can increase in value and, if you do it well enough, put systems in place, provide services that people love, create a great brand. This entity now could run without you and you could actually sell that entity for multiples of earnings you haven't even achieved yet.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that's really the overall game Right now, how you choose to do it. Like Hotrod, he wanted to be a solo entrepreneur and this was his. He goes, we go to Missouri, we buy a farm in Missouri like we just totally go middle-. He goes, we go to Missouri, we buy a farm in Missouri. Like we just totally go middle-aged crazy. We go to Missouri, buy a farm and Hot Rod starts a radiant heat business in Rogersville, missouri. Population like a thousand.
Speaker 1:I think the three of us put it over a thousand when we moved there and his mission was to work for people he liked on projects that were interesting. He was going to charge a lot of money and get in line. If you want to work with me, get in line. I can only do so much. I'm going to work for people who appreciate what I do projects I like, people who are, you know, people I like on projects that are interesting. And he crushed it so like there's a lot of ways to do this.
Speaker 1:Now in my mind I'm thinking how am I going to do it? How am I going to do it? And it was then oh, I'll write the books, I'll help other people I don't know. I'll trust in my higher power to find some opportunity for me. And what I found is that if you are really, really clear on what you want, then opportunities come from the right or the left you never saw coming and that's been evidenced. Oh, I'm going to cry. I mean, over and over again in my life that has been my experience that just somebody or something shows up that I wouldn't have even planned. If you're clear on what you want and you're willing to take some action in that direction, I believe intention trumps action all day long.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a great one. Intention action. I love that one. The intention you mentioned people getting in your life at a certain time, but you've got to be willing to open up and receive that right.
Speaker 1:I think that's a hard part for a lot of us. You know, I just had a conversation today with a guy I didn't know very well. I don't do consulting anymore, I'm busy, but I'll give somebody a hand, you know, if they call. If I know him, we have some kind of relationship. And this fellow whom I really like I know through service Titan reached out today and had a question and I said well, I'm free for 15 minutes, let's get on the phone. And I asked him he gets on a Zoom call and there's like eight of them around a big table Whoa, okay, what do you got? And they were just talking about their like financial situation and I said, well, tell me what you do. And they went around the room and they were so open and vulnerable that I said you know what? I was really prepared to just give you guys something pithy and just punch out right now, but because you were so open about it, let's spend a minute.
Speaker 1:And so we stayed on the phone for about a half an hour. They're smart people. They just needed a little help, a little reassurance. But to your point, like you just have to be vulnerable and get real. That's why you know it's a question for later on my list that you sent me, but like I think one of my favorite books is um, uh, oh, shoot. It's Brene Brown and I want to. Is it daring greatly, is that the name of it? I think it's daring.
Speaker 2:You mentioned that one earlier, the daring great. Yeah, that's the one. I know the best of her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and she just like, she talks about vulnerability a lot, and it's funny because a lot of these, you know, in our industry we have so much macho and there's a lot of guys who won't you know. They're always talking about how big they're, selling prices, how big their companies are, how many KPIs they have, how many blah, blah, blah. There's a lot of that. But there's also an increasingly vulnerable portion of the population of our industries that are willing to get real and ask for help and share information and not have it all figured out. And I think that comes with an increase in self-esteem, that you know what. I can open up a little bit and I'm still going to be okay. So that is really important and that's what I'm looking for in my life. You know, let's just be real with each other. We're all making mistakes, we all make bad choices, we all have scars. That's where the stories come from and the songs are written and all of that.
Speaker 1:And there are ways to turn this business around. So, like, if you consider that this business, with its purpose of increasing in value and the three main KPIs, that business is just like a car and it's not you and it's failure or survival does not reflect on you as a human being, but it is a car. Especially if you have the car, you might want to fix the car, improve the car, update it. Maybe you could get another car. You could sell this car. You keep one, sell one. You could have a whole garage full of cars at different phases of you know, construction and that can be really fun.
Speaker 1:And, as my friend Howard Partridge says, your company is a vehicle to drive you in the direction of your dreams. These cars are supposed to provide fuel for your life. You know to give off cash so that you can also, from this business, take some of that money out and give it to your family and your team members and your community. So, like you know, understanding that also helps you be a little less fearful, to your point, about the decisions you make with your company. The company could fail, that's all right. There's another car, there's another opportunity. It's not a reflection on me as a human being, but I might have to make some challenging choices because right now the company is not increasing in sales or profits or cash and I got to fix that.
Speaker 2:That's a great point. The multiple vehicles sorry so you hit that. Actually, you and I got to fix that. That's a great point. The multiple vehicles sorry so you hit that. Actually, you and I have talked about this in the past, about buy one, have one and, potentially, if you have the bandwidth, if you have the capacity to be able to run multiple companies at the same time, what have you seen with the multiple company running? So many of the people who listen are either trying to start one and scale one, but sometimes we get presented opportunities to get involved in another business. Tell us a little bit about how you would do that. What do you think the best structure you've seen?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's, it's a good question. It's one to one. Yeah, baby, we're one one let's go, it's one to one.
Speaker 1:Okay, so first up, I will like it's a good idea, as a consultant or as a friend, to ask questions. So instead of answering that question, I would come back with well, you know, what's your favorite part of the business that you have now? What do you love about it? What do you not like about it? Is it fixable? Is it worth it to you If you could snap your fingers and have this business go away? Would you? Is it worth it to you if you could snap your fingers and have this business go away? Would you? I have a friend whose business was spared in that tornado that hit joplin maybe 10 plus years ago, devastated the town and missed her business, and she told me I so wanted it to take my business to the ground oh well, that's heartbreaking, isn't it?
Speaker 2:yeah, it.
Speaker 1:And so, like it's kind of like or I know people who are, some of them say it, some of them think it are just waiting for their dad to die so they can finally take over.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's another bad one, isn't that? I mean like, do you see what?
Speaker 1:I mean Like none of that has to happen. You could just say I don't want to do it anymore.
Speaker 2:Were most of the people Italian. Sorry, I happen to be Italian. I have heard it said out loud, but I do know more people who've actually thought it?
Speaker 1:But you know and I get to where you would get. There you feel stuck, you feel like there's no options. But there are options. You know you have choices, there's ways to. You know you could fix it or sell it or abandoned it or walk away or break it up and try and mitigate the losses. I mean, this is a country that rewards entrepreneurialism and second chances. There is the opportunity for most people to be able to bounce back from that. And I'm not trying to discount the tragedy of what happens when you lose a lot of money. Discount the tragedy of what happens when you lose a lot of money. But going back to your question like what are some reasons for diversifying or staying in your lane? Let's talk about that. So I love Zoom Drain so much. They do drain cleaning and my recommendation to my franchisees is just do drain cleaning really, really well and keep going, Because then you have one set of manuals, you have one training program, you have one truck design. It's easy to scale and go.
Speaker 3:Do what you know and do it well.
Speaker 1:Do what you know and do it well, just over and over again. Now suppose you live in a town like Rogerville, missouri, of a thousand people. You might have to diversify. I think population is a good reason to diversify. If you are in a really small town doing being a purist or a specialist, there just might not be enough money. But in most towns, like you know, say, 250,000 or bigger, I think you could be a specialist and you could own that, you could own that market or you know, work in the direction of owning, owning a department, like for me. The simpler you make this is also Jim Abrams the simpler you make everything, the bigger you can take it, the more money you can make. Yeah, so like why? Now, why would someone diversify? I know some people with, just they don't have the attention span to stick with one thing.
Speaker 3:They're going to want to see. Can I do it again?
Speaker 1:Look at the two of you looking around.
Speaker 2:What? What was she saying? What Attention span. Yeah, the attention span no one way is to just scale what you know.
Speaker 1:Boom, boom, boom. That's what franchising is all about. But I also know people who own multiple franchises, right, so they just, they have the capacity, they like that game. So it really is going to be an internal decision as to how you do it, but I would consider, I would watch for this. I tried this and it doesn't work. I tried drain cleaning. That's not where the money is. Plumbing is where the money is, and now you abandon that and you go to plumbing. Plumbing is a whole different beast. So now we need another manual, we need different licenses, we need training systems, we need 50,000 parts on the truck. You can make money as a pl plumber, but there is no one ideal niche that's not going to have its own set of um. You know challenges or or idiosyncrasies? Um, I like businesses that are not dependent on, uh, the weather. I like. I like drain cleaning because it's the essential need. Not want. I mean, how bad does the economy have to be before you're going to call a drain cleaner?
Speaker 2:That's true, I mean you gotta. I mean, if you're, in fact, we just had this. I went and had to do an estimate because one of my guys was out and I went there and they're like, hey, my shower's backing up. I was there to look at something else. I'm like, ooh, that's a problem. Yeah, well, can't you do anything with it? I said, well, I'm just a handyman and I'm here to just do an estimate. But yeah, I mean, he's like we literally can't shower in the shower. I'm like you're right.
Speaker 3:So the world stops at that point.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And they'll give blood to make sure that shower goes.
Speaker 2:And then it just happened the day I Everything I was there to look at was not.
Speaker 3:Did you?
Speaker 2:stick something in their shower. Hey, I'm trying to make a buck somewhere. No, ellen. I did not do that. I did not do that All right, please.
Speaker 1:We loved the pandemic. People were using their jeans to go to the bathroom. They were using anything and flushing it. The pandemic was very good to drain cleaners when we couldn't find toilet paper. That's right.
Speaker 2:That was the pandemic, really was I mean.
Speaker 1:I didn't realize this.
Speaker 2:This entire pandemic was all about hey, I don't have any toilet paper. I mean, that was amazing how that thing was shift around and you drive all over like, hey, I found something big lots, Hurry up, Get there.
Speaker 1:Get it, get it all, yeah, no. So I mean there are, there are different ways. I would, I would definitely do a little soul searching, and then you know there are certain businesses too that I wouldn't. Warren Buffett says he doesn't invest in anything he doesn't understand.
Speaker 2:That's a great one too, Isn't that?
Speaker 1:good and Al Levy says he always invests in himself and his family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, staying close to home, his family, yeah, so again like Staying close to home, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so like that, that just might be another philosophy to operate from. So, in other words, like I could probably make really good money if I learned about crypto. I know people who have, but I don't find that personally rewarding. Like I know, at the end of the day, in the trades there is solved problems in our wake there are, you know, survivability has been improved, people are breathing easier, it's cleaner, it's safer, it's healthier. You know, with remodeling you take something that could be dangerous and make it safe again for people to live, or you're expanding their home to provide for another family, or maybe changes in some family member's life, like they got hurt and now they need accessibility. I mean, there's so much good work that happens in the trades that that's why I'm here. Like I know how to make money. I could make money in other businesses, but the trades just appeal to me so much on a. It makes me proud to be part of these industries.
Speaker 2:Well, I tell you, we got to wrap this up and this has been awesome. Oh, we do. I know, ellen, this went so fast, but you're bringing nobility back to the trades because I think you hit on so many really cool things that we talk about. You know, we have a mission plaque that we use for our team, but our vision statement is always that we maintain, improve and elevate customers' lifestyles. And when you think about your home as being the number one asset, for many of us, if it's not your financial number one asset, it's definitely your number one emotional asset, because that's where you raised your family, where you do that and you're right. I think a lot of us have a struggle with that, and because society right now, the way they view us, we feel like we're receiving their views negatively, but perhaps the views are changing, especially now that so many people are outsourcing everything in their home because a lot of people don't want to do anything in their home.
Speaker 2:They want to enjoy their families. They're good at what they do, whether it be IT, banking or logistics, but they'll let us come work on their home now and they'll be willing to pay for a good service done right, with professional background check guys showing up calling telling you they're going to clean up everything. So you've been great bringing the ability to the trades. Ellen Rohrer, I love this, but we've already touched on your favorite book.
Speaker 1:Okay, Also half.
Speaker 2:of our time was spent in technical difficulties. I think that's part of why it went so far. So if you're up for it, we're going to bring you back because someday I'm going to. I'm going to find a way to meet you in person because I've been trying to find a conference that you were going to. I was going to stalk you and go. Ellen, it's me, it's Chris, hello, yeah, so that's awesome. Yeah, this is awesome. All right, so you hit us with your favorite book, brene Brown Daring. Greatly Love that one.
Speaker 2:I have not read it all the way through it, to be honest with you, because I am ADD, as Ellen has mentioned. So we got to get to the next one what is the favorite feature of your home? Because you've mentioned a couple things and I can't wait to hear this answer.
Speaker 1:I think I might surprise you, my favorite feature of my home is the proximity to the mountains, to the desert, to Southern Utah to like. I love Utah, I love where I live and that's probably my favorite thing I love my home. I'm quite a minimalist. My love my home. I'm quite a minimalist. My husband is not. He's quite a pack rat. That's why we have a shop and I have my house and I love my house. But I love where I live and where my home provides that proximity.
Speaker 3:Did you grow up there?
Speaker 1:I was born and raised here and then I've lived a bunch of other places. But we've been back for three years and I'm so happy about it my son and their baby live here oh, oh, there, wait a minute.
Speaker 2:That's the real reason. That's right.
Speaker 1:Grandma has the proximity to my granddaughter. Oh, that's yes all right.
Speaker 2:So we're not there yet, and none of us want to be there that quickly, but however, I'm on watch.
Speaker 3:I'm on watch oh, no, yeah my son, who likes to hunt and break things, is suddenly going oh, that little girl is really cute, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean yeah, so did he say it in front of Judy? Yeah?
Speaker 3:oh, he's in trouble.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we're on watch oh, all right, chris is definitely not on watch. If he gets on watch, it's one of those. What the hell were you just doing so?
Speaker 1:but I've heard this it's easier when they're older. Great kids are way better than kids right. You know what? I love my kid. I love my grandkid. I never had a bad day with my kid. Oh my kid is my, my, my son's, my best friend.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I love, I love kids. Maybe we should ask that off air.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, sorry, right yeah. Ellen has three, and not one of my kids especially. I have an older daughter she's 26 and my son's 23. And when they're both just on a roll, I go boy. I wish I would have a third. Maybe I would have had one. And my son, my son, the other day, fired back at me and said dad, I hate it when you say that I said you're 23. Get over it.
Speaker 1:Get over it, get it. You can take a joke. Um, I used to tell my son put yourself up for adoption. And we had a long driveway.
Speaker 2:So when he started to drive, I said you can drive to the end of the driveway and leave the keys in the car and then just stay in there. Check this out, my cousin. My cousin posted this on Facebook. You're going to love this. So they disciplined their daughter and she was supposed to be practicing piano and she stopped and they said well, if you're not going to. And she went to her room and she started on the phone or doing whatever kids do to the electronic, and they said if you're going to not practice the piano, we're taking that away. So here's what she did. She started doing sticky notes and started putting everything for sale and then she wrote she said this is this much, this is this much. She put sticky notes on all of her stuff in her bedroom and then she wrote a note, said I am leaving. You can have all this stuff, good luck. And they found her walking down the driveway with a backpack.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, I love that so much yeah. That sounds like a pretty clever kid. I'm just saying.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, all right, so we are. Uh, we don't talk about this a lot lately, but we need to get back on an episode of this, but we love customer service. We know you do because we are customer service freaks. All right, let's talk about it. What is a customer service pet peeve of yours when you're out there in the marketplace?
Speaker 1:When they say no, say yes and even if you don't do the work, yes, I can hear that you need that done and I know a great drain cleaner who can help you with that.
Speaker 2:That, uh, clogged shower dude that's improv all day long that's you know, if you ever, if you've ever had to do any training in improv, you can never say no, it's yes and oh, I love that it's yes and but like yes I hear you.
Speaker 1:I actually have not, you took an improv.
Speaker 2:I did, I actually did. I did not take the full class, you got thrown out of the class.
Speaker 3:I did actually, you were too.
Speaker 2:I was in profit all over.
Speaker 3:They're like that's enough of that but yes and just say yes I hear you and then what's my next step?
Speaker 1:I've got a number for you. I know someone you can call. I can help you. There's always something we can do to help and those relationships are so valuable. I'm sure you have great referral relationships with other contractors. Yes, and I know just the guy. Let me get you in touch. Relationships with other contractors yes, and I know just the guy. Let me get you in touch.
Speaker 2:That's a that when they say no or I don't know, it's just an inappropriate answer. Yeah, especially in the home. Yeah, that that drives me nuts. Because you know again, though, as tradesmen, we, if we don't know something, we're, we're just, we wear it on our sleeve and we go no, I don't know what to do. You're like no, no, no, don't. As a sales guy, I'm like no, no, no, don't say that. Say this Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We can't do it, hang on, yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:All right, and then I know you guys have to take off.
Speaker 3:I do too, but can we do this back for us 15 minutes.
Speaker 2:Yes, you're my new best friends hey, we did it all right ellen this has been awesome. Thanks guys you've been a great. Let's get out of here, make it happen everybody keep going up that mountain. Let's make it a big day go make it happen.
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