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The Small Business Safari
Have you ever sat there and wondered "What am I doing here stuck in the concrete zoo of the corporate world?" Are you itching to get out? Chris Lalomia and his co-host Alan Wyatt traverse the jungle of entrepreneurship. Together they share their stories and help you explore the wild world of SCALING your business. With many years of owning their own small businesses, they love to give insight to the aspiring entrepreneur. So, are you ready to make the jump?
The Small Business Safari
From Humble Beginnings to Hardwood Success: Michael Keroack's Journey in Authentic Entrepreneurship
Have you ever wondered how authenticity and company culture can catalyze small business success? Join us as we embark on a captivating journey into entrepreneurship with our esteemed guest, Michael Kerouac from Authentic Hardwoods. Michael takes us from his humble beginnings in Vernon, Connecticut, to navigating the challenges of building a thriving hardwood flooring business in Atlanta, Georgia. Through his compelling story, we shine a light on the power of mentorship, the essence of authenticity, and the transformation of a craftsman into a business leader.
Michael's story is not just about wood and nails—it's about heart and hustle. Learn how he pivoted from a high school flooring job to leading a successful team, all while balancing the art of craftsmanship with the demands of business expansion. Inspired by Michael Gerber's "e-myth," he shares how dedication and word-of-mouth marketing became the backbone of Authentic Hardwoods' growth. We explore the vital role that a supportive network, like a local CEO group led by Chris Hanks, played in his entrepreneurial journey, offering camaraderie and invaluable guidance.
The episode wraps with insights into the importance of investing in employee growth and the rewards of perseverance. Discover how Michael's commitment to nurturing talent has enabled his team members to ascend from entry-level roles to positions of leadership. As a testament to the power of a well-oiled team, Michael now enjoys personal adventures while his business continues to thrive. Tune in to uncover the secrets of building a business that's both authentic and successful, and be inspired by the adventures that come with it.
From the Zoo to Wild is a book for entrepreneurs passionate about home services, looking to move away from corporate jobs. Chris Lalomia, a former executive, shares his path, discoveries, and tools to succeed as a small business owner in home improvement retail. The book provides the mindset, habits, leadership style, and customer-oriented processes necessary to succeed as a small business owner in home services.
So I think it's not just my company, but it's in a lot of companies, it's all who you surround yourself with, it's culture. So I was fortunate enough that I met him and met other people that wanted what I wanted a smooth run operation and I just was fortunate that to hire the right people and I would sit down and I do this to this day. I sit down with people and I ask them what is it that you want out of authentic hardwood? Because I realized long ago that everybody's got to get what they want out of authentic hardwood. If they're not getting what they want, they can't work for me.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Small Business Safari, where I help guide you to avoid those traps, pitfalls and dangers that lurk when navigating the wild world of small business ownership. I pitfalls and dangers that lurk when navigating the wild world of small business ownership. I'll share those gold nuggets of information and invite guests to help accelerate your ascent to that mountaintop of success. It's a jungle out there and I want to help you traverse through the levels of owning your own business that can get you bogged down and distract you from hitting your own personal and professional goals. So strap in adventure team and let's take a ride through the safari and get you to the top. Do what you gotta do. That's what we're talking about today. Ellen, we gotta cheers it up. We got a big one today. Yeah, you know what I? Uh, I usually like to talk about myself. Okay, yeah, let yeah.
Speaker 3:Let's start.
Speaker 2:Usually, no, you always I do, but uh, what are the one things I talk about? Consistent theme that a lot of guys have heard me talk about on the show is is that CEO group that I'm part of, my, my, my, my mentorship group? I've been part of it for six years.
Speaker 3:Thank God for them. They do.
Speaker 2:I have to say that this group not only do they know more about me than my own wife, but I've shared more with them and I've processed some serious issues over six years. I just think the world of that group Chris Hanks is the guy who runs it it is only local here to Atlanta, so don't call me and ask me. Hint, hint, nick, nick, hope, hope. We probably will do something and I may be starting something in about a year or so. So keep listening, because right now you're.
Speaker 3:By the way, he did mention Chris Hanks and I forgot to go.
Speaker 2:Chris Hanks, who is Yoda? Oh, what is it you seek? Is it the answers you seek? Is it? Are you asking the right question? Oh, he did that to me again.
Speaker 3:Work that up off.
Speaker 2:Oh sorry, worked that up off air and so this is where we usually say, hey, uh, michael, can you uh fix it? But we can't do that because, well, michael never fixes it and cuts it out. So it's all in there, and this is what you call an authentic podcast, like joe rogan style, like getting before the election. Good word, authentic, we. Good word, authentic, we're authentic. You know what?
Speaker 1:It's way better than trusted.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm doing. Wow, you know what I'm about to do Slap my tires. So I talked about Michael and I used the word authentic, and I'm teasing even more about what we're going to do because I might be getting a little excited. You thought I was going to say the word hard. Can't do that people. This is not that kind of show. Go over to the sex channels if you want to listen to that shit, because we aren't doing that here, or our last episode.
Speaker 2:Or the last episode where we talked about cock and we talked about decks and having deck envy, but we're talking about hardwood, is what I are. We talking about that because, hey, chris, because we have michael kerouac here from authentic hardwoods, who is part of my, uh, my ceo group and I see mine, because it's not mine, he is part of our ceo group. Uh, he's been with us for a year, two years now. Wow, man, time flies. I mean they're calling me og now because I've been there for six years and what OG means still hasn't sold his business. So I'm sitting there in the not in the Yoda chair in the oh, look at that poor, pathetic guy still running his own business digging through. But Michael has joined us, michael Kerouac, authentic Hardwoods, here in Atlanta, georgia, out of Norcross, but Michael ain't from here, he ain't from these parts. Michael, welcome, where are you from?
Speaker 1:I'm from Vernon, connecticut, just outside of Hartford, originally, originally, but I moved here in 95, the year before the Olympics.
Speaker 3:I think that makes him a native.
Speaker 2:No, that makes him a carpetbagger. I read that.
Speaker 3:You're a carpetbagger.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, but I came to North Carolina in 92.
Speaker 3:Well look at you with your fake hair 92. You and Brian Kelly, I've lived here longer than I've lived in Connecticut.
Speaker 2:I have lived in the South longer than I've lived in North, yet my accent has not gone away and I still sound like I'm from the UP of Michigan and you still sound like my friend You're from the Northeast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm definitely from the Northeast.
Speaker 3:That's not going away now when you go back to connecticut for a family deal do they say you sound southern.
Speaker 1:So I was at a home depot in connecticut and the lady in there said you're not from around here, are you really? And I said what I grew up in this town and uh no, my accent's still to me sounds like I'm from up north. My wife is from is from South Georgia, with a real southern accent. How'd you guys meet? We met at a restaurant. We used to live near each other in another area in Gwinnett County and we just crossed paths.
Speaker 2:So you guys met at a restaurant Yep, we used to say bar but I guess not.
Speaker 3:I was going to say strip club, but I shouldn't do that. No, okay.
Speaker 2:No, you can't do that. Disperse his wife in the strip club. Now funny enough. No, I can't do that.
Speaker 3:So you want to do it too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, all right, michael's not that kind of guy man.
Speaker 3:Oh, michael's a good guy. He is All right, so let's talk about it. Yeah, well, yeah, she is Is she yeah. Actually, you know, should we?
Speaker 2:have her here. She likes bourbon, right, I would tell you as guys go. He really talks very highly of her. He's never said and I hope she listens to this podcast because this is true he has never said anything but nice things and good things about how great she is.
Speaker 3:I got lucky, that's for sure. That's awesome. We all have outkicked our coverage right.
Speaker 1:Yes, I definitely got it right the second time.
Speaker 3:That a boy, all right, so we're not going to go into marriage counseling.
Speaker 2:here we're going to talk about this. So, michael, you came out of high school and you said, hey, I'm going to work. And did the work choose you or did you choose the work? That's the big one.
Speaker 1:That's a good question, I think for me. I think for me it was. I knew I was going to work hard. Um, I wasn't good at sports, I wasn't too good at school, so when I started sanding and refinishing floors, it was the first thing I was better than everybody else at and I knew I was going to be good at it and I. That's kind of a cool feeling, yeah. So I, I picked it up quick, I liked it, I enjoyed it, I knew I was going to work hard and I never really looked back. I always knew I was going to do hardwood with a goal of running around to see where it can go, all right.
Speaker 2:So why was it so fulfilling for you? 18 years old and all right? So I'm good at something which I mean. That's a huge, a huge thing. Right, talk about a confidence boost, because a lot of us and we've talked about- this.
Speaker 3:We still don't know what we want to be when we grow.
Speaker 2:No, and we're. You know, we always have that self-doubt running through our head all the time and we always think we're not as good as this or we're not good at this. But it's nice to, every once in a while, go hey man, I, I'm really good at something. So why was sanding and refinishing hardwoods, why was that so fulfilling for you?
Speaker 1:Well, I think for you know a lot of people that are trying to find their way at that age. You're trying to find out what am I good at? What am I going to do with the rest of my life? How am I going to make a living? And when you know you're not going to go to college, you you start thinking, okay, what is out there for me? And I just had a high school friend. His dad owned a flooring company. When we got out of high school we just went to work for him. By the hour this was back in 86. And I just, I just liked it. I was good at it. I liked it. The older guys that were running the crews, they liked me on their crews, I think, because I was the guy they could yell at and boss around all day. But you get it done. But yeah, I got it done and I worked hard.
Speaker 2:So what was one of the one, what's one of the best lessons you learned from being on the crew as the crew guy, having guys talking Cause? You just said something that I will come back to, but what was the biggest lesson you think you learned from that crew?
Speaker 1:The importance of doing quality work. I had a guy, a mentor of mine, that taught me how to do floors. He was the guy who taught me when I first got in the industry and he really made an important fact He'll want to do quality Even if you don't feel like you're getting paid what you should get paid. A lot of guys in construction think they're underpaid. He really wanted to do a good job and he taught me. I was like an apprentice, so I remember I probably did floors for three years with him before I was allowed to run the big sander. I remember it was a crucible moment in my career when he said today's the day. So he really taught me from the very beginning, from the ground up.
Speaker 2:Think about that for a minute, right.
Speaker 1:I know I'm not worthy.
Speaker 2:Right. So it's one of those things like today you get to drive the car, what With the family in it. I mean, I can kill the entire family with one shot. Yes, Chris, you get to drive the car today. So, Michael, here are the keys to the big standard.
Speaker 3:Into this customer's floor that they will never get rid of so what?
Speaker 2:what was your phrase? Was it hot rod or let's grind it?
Speaker 1:I mean what? What do you? I don't know, I don't know that. I remember having a phrase for it yippee io I do remember the stress level, like I was like, wow, this is, this is important, because that was kind of like when I started running my own crew and then it was pretty much on me to make sure the job came out right and we're trying to sand and finish the furniture quality.
Speaker 2:And here we are. You said three years into it, but today we're talking. How many years have you been in the flooring business? 38 years, so 38 years. But who's counting Well, but this is it. Back to you. Know, everybody wants that cryptocurrency, everybody wants that. I let go there.
Speaker 3:I thought you were flipping me off. No, I just have one finger out. I'm like, I'm so used to you flipping me off. I'm like, what did I do? This time it's pretty early in the podcast, so I've just warmed my fingers up for later.
Speaker 2:Okay, it's just a little stretch little stretch exercise yeah, but, but you'll go back to this. It'll be 38 years in the business and we're going to talk about how successful he is today, because it is an amazing business he runs, but three years into it is when he first got a chance to go, so it doesn't happen overnight, man. I mean, there are special, and one of the things that's really cool is that this year in wsj well, that's wall street journal, uh, alan, if you're keeping track is thanks for her.
Speaker 2:They talked about your next millionaires are blue collar workers. So they're hvac, they're plumbers, they're electricians. And there was a whole article and my brother sent that to me and said, hey, look at this, your trades are in there. And I wrote back to him like yeah, wrong trades, bro, I'm in handyman. I said we ain't there yet. But flooring back to this. Uh, but what you did? I mean? Three years into it he found he he understood that it takes time to do things. You can't go from zero to a 38 million or zero to a millionaire in just six months. It takes time if you want to have a lasting business that you can actually put your name on and have a lot of pride in. Because I know Michael has a lot on him and there's a lot to be said for just being really freaking good at one thing yeah he is.
Speaker 3:And you actually said, off air, before we started, something to the effect of yeah, I've been in florida my whole life, isn't that? I can't remember?
Speaker 2:you said something he said the word he said isn't that pathetic? And I was like no bullshit, no right.
Speaker 3:And I think about you know, you and I love to cook, and there's people who devote their lives to pizza. Yeah, and they do, you know. Their whole life is about pizza and the perfection of the pizza, and every pizza is special to them. And then you think about the japanese culture and you have somebody that devotes their whole life to just sharpening blades, or you know, or cutting fish.
Speaker 3:They're cutting fish and I mean we, we don't. We don't have that kind of passion in the states very often I I don't see that no, and, and I'll tell you, this is going to come out in this and there I.
Speaker 2:I don't know how he came up with the word authentic, but this dude is authentic. I mean Michael. I love that name.
Speaker 3:I love that name. Yeah, and that's why I'm changing my name to the Authentic Toolbox, that's a toolbox, I know, Because I would just feel so much better about it. I mean trusted toolbox. Oh, come on Right, I mean you just like, you just hold that out of a gumball machine. The more trusted toolbox. Yeah I know, More trusted toolbox is way better than trusted toolbox.
Speaker 2:It's enough about you. That's about Michael. Okay, back to Michael. Well, it's really about Chris. Actually, let me tell you another story. No, I'm kidding. All right, michael, back to you. So three years into it, you're doing that. You're still at that point. Are you thinking, hey, man, I think I can rock and roll. This is my biz. I'm going to start my own biz. Were you actually starting to think about that at all?
Speaker 1:So I think, probably five years in, I always thought I could do a better job running this company than the way it's run, and I think a lot of employees have that employee mentality. They can do better. But the issue is always how do you get started in business and you know where's it all began. When do you take that big, giant step? I think I had made a decision to move to Georgia when I found out that the Olympics was coming and I had worked for a company for about four years, so this was nine years into it and then I decided I'm going to go to Atlanta. I had never been to Atlanta but I figured I'm going to go there. They got four seasons. Um, I know there's a lot of work there.
Speaker 3:You moved without ever having yeah.
Speaker 1:I'd never been to Georgia, never nothing. So I came here and, uh, when I got here in in July of 95, um, I started calling around the flooring companies and back then business was booming. Builders were building houses, you know, they were selling them as fast as they could build them Right. What I found out when I got here was the quality was ridiculous. The floor guy one day, ridiculous, bad, bad. One day the floor guy's doing floors. The next day the same guy's hanging sheetrock. The next day he's running trim.
Speaker 1:There was no like true apprenticeship. It was basically like here are the tools, get going at it. So I thought the quality of work was pretty bad when I got here. So I just thought I'd take advantage of it. And I met a guy and he had tools, he had work, but he really didn't have a company. So I kind of just took that, took that role, him and I, and we got another guy and he just didn't have the, the mindset of building a company. He was all about how much money can I make? The least amount of money I spend on my business, the more money I can pocket, and he just had a whole bad he was looking for the big go fast boat so we can go up on Lake Lanier with a big go fast boat.
Speaker 2:Alan Was his name, Chris it was not. Oh, that's scary. I only have a pontoon boat. I don't have a go fast boat.
Speaker 3:I, uh, but I, but I, but no.
Speaker 2:In your mind oh, bikinis, dude. When I roll that thing out on Lake Tandahala and I go end-to-end in my big old pontoon boat, I am all thinking I am Miami Vice rolling out right from the movie 1982. I am just rocking it, baby. I'm Don freaking Johnson and Tubbs is with me no-transcript. So I did not get the go fast boat, because Michael's hitting on exactly what he's just talking about. This guy didn't know how to run a business. Well, michael, what are you talking about? Well, michael's talking about the guy wanted to get as much money out of the business as he could. Well, isn't that why we're doing it? Well, no, not. If you're looking for the future, right, long term, ah, 38 years. Can I get a sling blade? Thank you, alan. So, michael, you got into it. You're working with these guys. You didn't know one person in Atlanta.
Speaker 1:I had known a person that lived on the west side, a guy I went to school with. But when I got here I was staying in an apartment over in what was it Duluth, and so I was working with this guy. I knew that it was a dead-end job, and then I had met somebody. He just liked me and he said if you had your own tools, I'll pay you by the square foot as much work as you want to do. Well, I didn't really know. A lot of people didn't really have anything else to do but work. So that's all I did was I just worked. I installed all day long, installed and sanded all day long, every day, and he taught me a lot of stuff. He was kind of like a mentor and he just said you know, just keep doing what you're doing, it's going to pay off. And I was getting paid by the square foot. So the incentive was the more you work, the more you make. It was a pretty simple concept.
Speaker 2:But you were a single contributor, right it was just you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was just me and a helper you were doing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when did you make that change to running your own? Business so well, i— Not necessarily a year, but— yeah so in 99.
Speaker 1:So I got here in 90, I got here in 96, in 1999 I I met this guy and he was like hey, if you had your own tools, had your own van, I'll just pay you by the square foot. So I went to Home Depot, I bought a saw, started buying some equipment, and then I told my boss, hey, I'm gonna try this on my own. And uh, I just said to my at that that time my girlfriend. I said hey, I think I'm going to quit my job. And I think at that point I was talking.
Speaker 3:This is the one that you met at the restaurant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so now it's my wife, but at the time girlfriend, and so then I bought a $1,500 van.
Speaker 2:Hey, note to everybody. Uh, the girlfriend very supportive, right love that part, um, by the way, uh do you want to talk about that a little bit? Yeah. So, girlfriend, make sure you get the motorcycle now and make sure the motorcycle doesn't die because you don't get to buy one after you get married, even though her entire family rode harleys all their lives. And then you go to say, hey, I'm gonna go get a truck, a bike, and my father-in-law, who I thought was totally supportive of this, said no, you can't.
Speaker 3:At this point in the podcast, I have to secretly call his therapist and set up an appointment for tomorrow and see if they can clear the schedule in the morning.
Speaker 2:So to this day I still do not have my motorcycle. And now, when I can, I'm too old and I I can't do it. You know you'd hurt yourself, I would die. Maybe you get a scooter from mary I'm not get maybe a mobility scooter. You know what? Actually, we're doing a podcast over there. Actually we're doing a tiktok on that one. So all right.
Speaker 2:So again, girlfriend, supportive of the business, and how about this right, how about coming home and telling your wife with two kids in private school and a country club community going, I'm going to quit my job and start my own business? So let me explain supportive versus not supportive for the group. So when you're established in life and then you decide to make the move, which is what I did, it is a lot harder than doing it in the beginning and you're like no, it's not, chris, it was just as hard, it's still just as hard. So here's what I tell people I don't care when you start your business, do it when you're ready. But you've got to be ready. And Michael is showing you right now and everything. He's telling you he was ready Because you were ready, because you followed it. You've been through it, you knew the processes, you saw the things that were wrong, said I'm ready to jump. You weren't jumping blindly. You jumped into what you knew, what you're doing, even though you don't say it like that. But so you jumped here we go yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think when you decide to make that change, it's failure is not an option. I had a good source to get work, but the work wasn't paying well. It was, you know, 80 cents a square foot. For as many square feet as you can body can put up with for a day, 80 cents a square foot for as many square feet as you can body can put up with for a day.
Speaker 3:And let me, let me interrupt you there. So when you're looking at you being a perfectionist and a craftsman, 80 cents a square foot might be good if you're just kind of hauling ass through the house, right, right, but you were taking your time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, it's funny you say that Cause I. I was working for a guy and we were talking about people always complaining they're not, it's just in the home service industry they're underpaid, they're underpaid. And I was like you know what, if you, if you agree to do the job for the amount of money that you agree to, you should do the best job you can do and not say, well, I would have done a better job if you paid me more money. The idea is you agree to it, so give it your best. Worry about the money later, if you find out that you're underappreciated, then you find another job. But what you can't do is say, well, I would have done a better job with that floor if you were paying me a dollar a square foot versus 80 cents.
Speaker 2:So good news is good, it was good advice. The. The good news is when I tell somebody I'm going to do their deck, I can't come back to them and say, well, always back to the deck yeah, especially your deck. Yeah, uh, trim the bushes yeah so the deck looks bigger.
Speaker 2:It always looks bigger that way. Um, you know what? Your wife was over on my deck last night. I couldn't get her off of it. I was like, oh my god, I had all these ladies on my deck. I couldn't get her off of it. I was like, oh my God, I have all these ladies on my deck, I couldn't get them off of it. All right, that's a blue comedy tribute right there. Cheers to them, love that. But, michael, back to your point. You're right, you're not a victim. It's your fault, not their fault. You're not underpaid because of them. You're underpaid because you didn't do it, and that's a great business mindset.
Speaker 1:Well, it's the employee that feels like they deserve a raise. I'd be a better employee if you paid me more money. How do you give a bad employee more money to be a?
Speaker 3:better employee On the hope that they'll actually live up to being a better employee All right.
Speaker 2:So when did you start Authentic Hardwoods as a name, as a brand, and to build it 1999.
Speaker 3:Did you think about trusted hardwoods at all? I did not think about because it didn't seem like it was trite. Is that so?
Speaker 2:I thought about where I mute and guess what? The fingers are warmed up and they're right, fucking there it didn't take you long to warm up the finger that's so good. How do I invite him? I don't know all right, so authentic why um, genuine, you know, real not.
Speaker 1:I used to be the custom floor guy. That's all I wanted to do install raw wood, sand and finish. I didn't want to talk about pre-finished in a box. I didn't want to talk about luxury vinyl. If it was raw wood, I would do it. If it wasn't, I wasn't interested. I wanted to do the harder of the flooring trades. Doesn't take a lot of talent to open up a box, glue it to some plywood and call it a floor.
Speaker 2:So I obviously as the artist in mindset.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to be proud of this right, absolutely, uh, in my opinion, if you want real hardwood, then buy real hardwood, then buy real hardwood. Don't buy something that looks like hardwood. But it takes a lot more talent to install raw wood, sand and finish than it does to buy it in a box.
Speaker 3:So for a dumbass like me, how am I going to see that difference if I'm the customer compared to it?
Speaker 1:You'll see it when your floor has a plasticky finish to it because it's a sprayed-on enamel in a factory. And you'll see the difference when your dishwasher leaks and you need a box to fix it and they discontinued it and we can't fix it because china doesn't have it anymore.
Speaker 2:Aha he didn't bring that up, but he didn't bring up China. All right, all right back to Michael. So, michael, you were still.
Speaker 3:I'm not sure what just happened here.
Speaker 2:Because China brings bad wood. You know what? After all this, we can actually say that and get away with it we're protected, keep the borders protected, thank you, thank you, thank you, november 5. All right back to this doing it. We're protected, that's right, the border's protected, thank you, thank you. Thank you, november 5. All right back to this. Uh, so, michael, you grew up, but you were still just you authentic hardwoods. When did you start to figure out that you had to do better to grow? When did you start to figure out the scaling had to be more than just you, because you were the exact example of the e-myth that michael gerber talks about all the time? You were a great craftsman, but now we're going to grow a business. How did you do it?
Speaker 1:I think I had met a guy and he said, hey, I need a job. And I said I'll teach you how to do floors. So he was my helper. And then I think what was happening was people were calling. I seemed to be busier and busier and then I kept saying I don't know if we're getting lucky with this work coming or if this is just organically we're growing. So I just decided, hey, I'm going to add another guy. And then I went and bought another van and then I had one van. I bought a brand new van from Tom Jumper Chevrolet. It's a company that hasn't been around in years, but they're Sandy Springs, I think. So then I had a van to install and then I had a van to sand and finish. We called it Old Whitey and Big Whitey because they were two white cargo vans. And then All right.
Speaker 2:So stop right there, because we talk a lot about branding and marketing and we're going to go back and pick on Mike a little bit. So we had two white vans. So one of the big things I talk about with my company is I built the Trusted Toolbox Great brand name and recognition, almost as good as the More Trusted Toolbox you know what which has failed, but not as good as Authentic Hardwoods. He hadn't wrapped his vehicles. He but not as good as authentic hardwoods. He hadn't wrapped his vehicles. He wasn't thinking like that because somebody didn't tell him hey, look, good idea, if you would have wrapped those things, people would have saw you. Those are mobile marketing devices Probably would have got some more leads out of those. But you're like, I didn't need leads, man, because I was getting my biz. That's back to. I'm not picking, but I'm saying that for guys listening to the biz today.
Speaker 2:Here's the cool thing right when Michael started his business, there were podcasts. The internet wasn't around. None of this stuff was happening. We didn't know this stuff. I'm telling you today, big part you want to do is, if you're an old whitey and big whitey, make those things authentic whitey and new whitey, new authentic. I can't figure it out, but anyway authentic. Whitey and uh, new whitey, new, new, authentic.
Speaker 1:I can't figure it out, but anyway authentic hardwoods trucks because they actually make them look great. Yeah, well, I think back then, like you said, it was an internet I was just trying to make money by my business. Focus was how many square feet can I get done in a week? How many can I get done in a month? So my thought process well, with one van, two guys can install 700 feet in a day. Imagine if I had two vans and four guys, we could do 1400 feet in a day. So that's really my mindset. But I was still out there in these vans as much as I could be. I never did marketing. I never did any sales. I never hired anybody to work in an office. Work came to me pretty easy, but someone would say talk to me about marketing. I didn't want to talk about marketing because I didn't have time, I didn't want my phone to ring. I could barely keep up with what I'm doing.
Speaker 3:And at this point, are you selling to the end user or yes, yes, homeowners, okay, and they're just totally vibing on your authenticity yeah, it's all word of mouth right.
Speaker 2:But again he's rolling around and you know, looking back and I'm and I'm not picking because he's already doing it. Now it's everything's wrapped up and doing it. Um, but that's how you grow your brand. But he also back to the e-myth. I'm a great craftsman, I'm becoming a manager and I definitely don't want to give up on the control of that quality, because quality is all about that, right? Yeah, I can promise you, I've seen this work.
Speaker 3:It's all quality. Well, and so I'm dying to know, because right now, at this point in the story, he's still got his hand on every deal, every deal, and now we're getting there, yeah, okay, cause at some point you've got to let go.
Speaker 1:So I had a guy call me. He was about 19 or 20 and he said, hey, I, I'm looking for a job. I've been doing floors for two years. My boss is a drug addict. I just quit, found my number in the yellow pages I don't know if you remember the yellow pages, we're old and he, uh, I said, yeah, come on in, let's talk. So he came in and he was 19 or 20, from Gainesville and uh, I liked him, just a hard worker. And once I hired him he really started to make me feel like, wow, if he could take over running the crew, I could step back and he kids around and says you stopped working hard. Today you hired me. Um, I'm lucky to say, and fortunate to say, that he still works for me, been 20, 20 years or more. That's fantastic. Started when he was 20 and he's 41.
Speaker 3:So he was your first crew leader.
Speaker 1:Uh yes, First real crew leader that I trusted.
Speaker 3:Okay, and so where are you? Where are you all these years later? I mean, how many crews do you have?
Speaker 1:So we work 22 people. Uh, we run six crews. He is now our operations manager, so he doesn't deal in. He deals a hundred percent day-to-day operations. He does the schedule, puts the crews together and orders material.
Speaker 3:So how now, because you are like obsessive about floors and obsessive about sanding and quality and everything how do you you know it's the it's the bigger you get how do you make sure that the end user is getting the product and service that you would have delivered yourself, with you not being directly?
Speaker 1:involved. So I think it's not just my company, but it's in a lot of companies, it's all who you surround yourself with, it's culture. So I was fortunate enough that I met him and met other people that wanted what I wanted a smooth run operation and I just was fortunate to hire the right people and I would sit down and I do this to this day. I sit down with people and I ask them what is it that you want out of authentic hardwood? Because I realized long ago that everybody's got to get what they want out of authentic hardwood. If they're not getting what they want, they can't work for me.
Speaker 2:All right, so your first crew leader is very important. What's his name?
Speaker 1:Michael Blocker.
Speaker 2:He's got Michael and Michael. So I'll call at Rosewell and I'll say hey, I need to talk to Michael, and they'll throw me over to Michael. I'm like, hey, mike. No, I'm like, no dude, I need to talk to Kerouac. It's so funny. No, dude, I need to talk to Kerouac. It's so funny.
Speaker 2:But he plays it off. He's actually very played off and just really downplaying what he did. He's got a culture and he found a guy who wanted to buy into his culture. He found a guy who wanted to buy into his vision and got with him and he invited him on that journey. He didn't say, hey, this is what I got. He's asking people, I'm bringing you on that journey. He didn't say hey, this is what I got. He's asking people, I'm bringing you on this journey. If you want to go on it with me, great, that's what you feel every time you walk into his facility. That's what you feel when you see his guys come into sight. That's how he knows. Well, he doesn't know yet because he doesn't know, but he's learning to know that he can be even bigger than he is.
Speaker 1:That's true, but I think if you grow it, let the company grow itself, without trying to force it is an easier way of doing it, although I wasted a lot of time because I was just beating and banging around doing hardwood floors and I had created a good job for myself up until 2016. In 2016, I had an opportunity to buy a commercial building and I was in Lawrenceville little. What is a warehouse, office space, glorified garage. I couldn't no one would ever want to work for me there. As far as office, it was just. Basically, the office was the bonus room above my garage Flex space, and I had an an office, but we used it as a storeroom for sandpaper. And when I bought the building, um, it got me in a part of town I wanted to be, got me over on 141 at peach street corners, and then I bought a facility I could grow a company in, and we spent a lot of money, uh, invested a lot of money into it, and that is really the big turning point for Authentic Hardwood.
Speaker 2:I think that's a critical point and actually this is why Alan, who has joined the podcast, got to give Alan props. If you have any commercial property needs in all of Atlanta, you know who to talk to. That's Alan Wyatt, because he has actually helped out a number of people who actually touched this podcast, but we also know a number of people you bought your property before you knew Alan, so he'll get some grace. Okay, alan, but talk about that for a minute, because the space became the opener For you, as I've listened to you and I really appreciate this is that you went with Clark, another great remodeler here in town, and said I'm going to buy the space, it's a big investment for me, but I also see this is going to open up my business and it allowed you to open up your mind and grow it more. Did you feel like that? Was it that did it? You felt like you were ready.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I didn't know if I was ready. It wasn't my friend Clark Harris at Innovative Construction. He had approached me and said building's too big for me, too far over the skis for me to do it on my own. I think you'd be a good fit if we bought it together. And so I was a little nervous. So I talked to my wife about it. She was really you want to make this big plunge? And I said you know, I really think I should do it. She was you know, really you want to make this big plunge? And I said you know, I really think I should do it.
Speaker 1:And then, on a personal note, right when I signed the contract to buy the building, my wife came down with cancer. So she was kind of hemming and hawing and kind of hinting around. Maybe we should pull the plug and maybe now's not the time. And I said you know what I get all that, but this is an opportunity that's in front of me today. It won't be in front of me, you know, a year from now. And then she was basically like you know what? And I kind of leaned in and said hey, you know I'm trying to realize a dream here. This is a huge moment for me, and so everything worked out.
Speaker 2:She was supportive and I bought the building. All right, it sounds like you're being very selfish there, but I do know that he didn't tell the whole story. My wife had cancer and I said, screw you, I'm going to go buy the building anyway.
Speaker 1:That's not exactly how it worked, okay, thanks. Thanks for claiming this. Is that what you heard?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but he told it like that because, again, very self-effacing and puts himself in a good servant spot. Puts himself in a good servant spot. She actually said if you think this is right, I feel like I can beat this and we're going to beat this together. And she said let's go do all this together. And that's what I remember from the story that you told me, and the CEO.
Speaker 3:It's hard to make big decisions like that when you have life stressors.
Speaker 2:Dude, I'm telling you. Actually, Mike Levy said you're not going to everything, are you? I said no, bro, I'm gonna hold on, but this is one, um, you talk about having crucible moments. You actually used that phrase earlier and and? Um, I remember him telling the story to me and for me it felt like listening to him. That was a crucible moment where a lot of people would have wilted, a lot of people would have said you're right, let me just pour into you as a cancer patient and let me help you because I have to, because that's what we do. And together they made the decision that we can do both and we can make this happen. And that's what I remembered. And together they're stronger, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's. Um, I remember when Clark had asked me to do it and I said to him I don't know if I would do. If I do this, it's really gonna. I'm really in the game. I got to really take this seriously. I got to really build this company. It's going to be a lot. And I said, and he says, well, why not? What's keeping you from doing it? And I'm like I just I don't know if I want to put in all that energy that it's going to take. I said I already make more money than I thought I would make. And he said, well, you created a good job. That's all you've done so far. How about create a good company? So he kind of pushed me along and, uh, again, my wife's support, um it, it became. It made sense, but again nervous at the time because this building was a whole lot more money than I paid for my house. And when was this 2016. And how is your wife now? Great, great Thanks for asking. And a revision, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, she's awesome. Yep 16, 24.
Speaker 2:Yeah, again, he's never said a bad word. I wish not so to back this up again. Back to your career life. Right, michael got into this business because his friend's dad had a biz. He gets under this guy who pours back into him and says I want you to focus on quality. You look at his arc over life and what he's done. He's like I'm always doing the quality deal. He takes a chance and then he has another mentor step in his life and say man, open your mind, because you can run a bigger business than you are today. And guess what? You won't be beholden to being behind that sander or behind that nailer every single day. And so here he is today and that's where we're going to get to today. So today, six crews doing this.
Speaker 2:Here's his lifestyle. Here's how I hear it at least. Is that he takes 75 trips a year? No, he takes a couple trips a year, snowmobiling. He does other things. He went to Ireland with his wife a lifelong dream for the fam and they went over there for two weeks. And all, all the while the business ran just fine. Think about that for a minute 38 years. Would you do that If you told yourself 19 year old self. Hey, 38 years from now, I'm going to let you take seven, eight weeks off a year. If you will, not that, that money, I know you don't but and I'm to let you go do these things and, by the way, you're financially independent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I tell you it's a great feeling when all the systems are working. I always tell people my company's run by systems that we created. We're run by systems that my employees help build, and all we do is hire people to fill the position, train them.
Speaker 3:So I want to go back to something you said earlier. Every time you sit down with a prospective employee, you ask them what do you want out of authentic? What are you looking for in that answer?
Speaker 1:So that's a good question. What I'm looking for is someone that's we keep score, whatever. When somebody says to me Two fingers today, that's a good podcast, that's a two-finger podcast that was simultaneous. No, no, I gave him one. No, I got two from chris. I'm not surprised.
Speaker 1:The uh, the, the thing about hardwood flooring is an installer. It's a hard job, really hard job. So we try to find someone that realizes it's hard. Are you tough enough physically and mentally? It's more mental than it is physical. But if they say to me hey, I want to, um, I want to learn how to run my own crew, then we say, okay, we're going to start you at the beginning. You don't have to know anything, we're going to train you, we're going to put you in the right spot with the right person and in about three years you should be ready to go out and run your own job site.
Speaker 1:Now we have a guy that it took him five years but everybody's different, right, he had a lot of things that were slowing his pace down. We've seen people do it faster. But what we don't want is the guy to come in and feel like he's a helper, he's the gopher on a job site, because after a while they get bored of that and they give up. So the guy that only wants to be a helper, he's the one who doesn't want any responsibility. He's not going to last long, he's going to get sick of it. He could push a broom anywhere. So we want a guy who wants more responsibility and therefore we see it in them and we show them. This is how you're going to get there. We actually have a track record to show when I say hey, this guy that is your boss, he's head of operations. He came here at $11 an hour 21 years ago. He's now running the whole company, as far as you know, in the field. So again.
Speaker 1:And then we have another guy that had been with us 10 years and he said, hey, I'm getting older, I don't what is the end game for me here? And I knew he wasn't going to be good for sales. So I said well, you've got to position yourself within this company where you can bring the same value that you bring as an installer. So we talked about it and I said, hey, wouldn't it be great if you became our quality control manager? So what, he's been with us I think 10 years now and he's in his early forties. He liked the company, liked the way we were doing things.
Speaker 1:So his job is to basically go around during the day, check on all the crews, make sure there's no problems that need to be fixed. So he's an incredible installer. So if someone's having trouble with a radius stair tread or something, he can make sure that he show them how to fix it. Also, if he's trying to find problems before the homeowner does, and if anyone ever needs anything, they call him. Oh, we ran out of wood, or whatever happens. He's the boots on the ground, he's out there in a truck rolling around town and he's phenomenal. I mean we could, I would not want to be in business without this guy. He cuts out all the heartache, solving problems all day long before anyone ever knows there is one.
Speaker 3:So what I am hearing is your employees know, after talking to you, that if they're invested in your company, you're going to figure out a way to take their talents and make the most of it, and there will always be a spot within your company. Yes, that's my hope.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what the plan is. So when I used to hire bookkeepers and I'd hire a bookkeeper and I'd say, oh, you're a bookkeeper, and she'd be like, yes, I'd pay whatever I want to pay, then I realized that their books are terrible. I couldn't get good reports, so then I had another. That's kind of a problem with the bookkeeper, don't you?
Speaker 3:think Chris Right.
Speaker 1:Well.
Speaker 3:I think what happens is you've got to just write the chat we have.
Speaker 2:Thank you, my friend.
Speaker 1:Chris has had problems with bookkeepers.
Speaker 2:Michael knows full well Exactly.
Speaker 3:I can't believe I didn't get a third finger on that when I was going for the trifecta.
Speaker 2:Actually, I got so flabbergasted on that that you didn't get it. You know what You're getting double oh.
Speaker 1:I think we met when you were at the tail end of fighting through your bookkeeping debacle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would tell you, books are great when they run great and books are horrible when they're horrible. And getting out of the horrible is so hard, it's so painful to go from horrible to good. Michael came in on the tail end of I had bared my soul to the entire group because it was you know again. So I'm going to ask this question, not to go about me.
Speaker 3:It's been a long time since we talked about you, Chris. For the love of God, please.
Speaker 2:Can we get back to me? Can't believe I'm still here 38 years.
Speaker 1:Have you ever thought about just saying I'm done? No, no, I tell you, 38 years in, I've never had it better than I got it today, and you never at any point in your life said that no.
Speaker 2:So I'll tell you why you have that and I love this about you, michael, and I've come to know you. So, people out there, I would tell you guys I left my corporate America job and I was making a lot of money and I had an established lifestyle. I started my business late and I had a family to feed and I had expectations. I had very, very lofty expectations. Three different times in my career and this is what I've shared with the group I should have closed my business and said, no, you know what? I failed. I didn't do it, and Alan will attest because he's been part of this and it's tough.
Speaker 2:But you know what? I'm not saying that my expectations were too lofty and I didn't. And I'm not saying your expectations were too low and you did. I'm saying you have to be realistic about what you're doing and how you're getting there, because 38 years later, to do the, to do the year you've had, I mean, everybody makes fun of me with my vacations. You know that yeah, um and uh, you can keep making fun of me because, hey, motherfuckers, I'm going to the Rose Bowl and SoFi next weekend. So take that oh, next weekend yeah, great.
Speaker 2:So, uh, but, but I but we earned it, we, we did it and uh, you know what? But we do. We have more fun doing this and I've uh just got done telling my friends this I have more fun doing these podcasts than I do playing golf right now, and which is crazy, because I love playing golf, because I love getting a chance for people to hear your story, because you're not just authentic hardwood, you are authentic michael carrow, and your culture is coming through and it does, I mean, unbelievable. He's built a great business and he's built a lifestyle for himself and his wife, who I can completely can tell he adores uh for both of them. So it's been great. So kudos, man, for doing that yeah no, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of it is. I had somebody years ago say we were trying to find a good fit for back to the bookkeeping and he said stop trying to write a check to make your problem go away. He was like find someone who's smart and nice and train them. So I hired a younger girl out of college and I hired a CPA and a lot of money to teach her QuickBooks. And between my office, her and the CPA we created a job costing system. We created our books became rock, solid, solid and it was just an investment, but it was also hard work. So therefore I also had to learn about QuickBooks.
Speaker 1:And you think, well, I'm just a floor guy, but it's so common, I think, for us to just want to write a check and make it go away. Once you start realizing if you do the heavy lifting, it'll pay off forever. If you just hire someone and write them a check, once they leave, they take their system with them. This way, this, this young woman, has left the company and everyone's like, oh, I can't believe she left after all that. And I said, well, you know what it sucks, but she didn't take the system with her. So all we had to do is hire someone else plug them into the system. Our books have never been better. How?
Speaker 3:about that Roll up your sleeves and get authentic. I love it.
Speaker 2:That's the story. All right, michael Kerouac. All right, I know. If you're a flooring guy, you're dying to talk to this guy. So, michael, how do people get ahold of you? I know you will give back to everybody who calls you. I think he probably wants to. You know what he does because he's got that servant heart. I mean you, you can't hear this the whole thing. So how can people find you, man? So, uh, authentic hardwood flooringcom. Let's do it, authentic hardwood flooringcom, and we'll come up with a jingle for him later. But we got to get to our famous four questions. Let's do it right now. Ready to rock and roll, give us a book you recommend to our audience.
Speaker 1:Um don't be the highest calling the highest calling, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:By larry geneski. Yeah, phenomenal. Oh, that's the first call on that one. And, by the way, larry geneski uh started, uh basement systems and uh, I was given that book by a big mentor of mine, uh, tom de gregoria. Shout out to tom because he will not be listening to this, because he has sold his business. He's actually getting the second bite of his apple right now. Uh, he is killing it. That's not so bitter. I'm not bitter. I mean he, he gave me a ton. But the highest calling by larry taneski, I 100 agree with. Why?
Speaker 1:that just talks about. It's actually a story about a guy trying to transition from being an operator to an owner and what it really means and what it really takes. And uh, and while I was reading that book I had said to a mentor of mine I said I had he had made a comment. I had said, ah, you know, I'm just a an uneducated floor guy. He was like no, you're not, you're a highly educated floor guy yeah, he is.
Speaker 2:He puts himself in a very kind of how the book goes, pretty powerful. Michael is, uh, very self-effacing, but all right, we're getting back to this now ready. What's this? What's the favorite?
Speaker 3:feature. I ask one oneword question of why.
Speaker 2:You think I'm off the rails. You're off the rails, I'm just totally out of control, oh, my God, he's going left again. Oh, my God, america's done, done, done. I might double-finger you. Oh, you can't do that because you're drinking. All right back to what's the favorite feature of your house? The floors. What's the favorite feature of my house? Yeah, the floors. So it's a podcast. You have to answer. So why are your floors so good? What is it? What do you got on the floor? What's in Michael Kerouac's authentic?
Speaker 1:hardwood. I have just your typical traditional hardwood floors, the two and a quarter inch wide standard, but I have a custom blended stain that I think really fits a craftsman style house that I have. Oh god that sounds really good.
Speaker 2:oh my god, it sounds like the guy describing dessert. I know we have this dessert and you're like oh my god, I want to eat that. I don't even know what it looks like, but I want it, me too. Yeah, can we eat it, maybe? All right, all right, back to this, because we have to get ready. We got to go eat soon. Yeah, all right. We are big on customer service. We've talked about that. We know what you guys do. But when you're out there and you go say that question, what is a customer service pet peeve? When you're the customer which I see now, you're out there, your dinner.
Speaker 1:Oh, as the customer. Yeah, oh, just not showing up when you said you're gonna.
Speaker 3:That aggravates me like with no like. So if somebody says, hey, I'm gonna be late, yeah, are you okay with that? Yeah, not really even atlanta with the traffic you knew the traffic was there.
Speaker 1:Here's the thing about authentic hardwood. Who's a hard ass now at authentic hardwood? If we tell you're going to be there at eight o'clock, open the door, we're there we don't need a doorbell how do you get your people to do that? We. They're at my office at 6 30 ready to go. Yeah, wow, yeah, no, we. We really really, really really try hard. All right, make sure we do what we say we're gonna do all right.
Speaker 2:Hardwood guy, I want to know this one. Give me a diy nightmare story. You did something and you almost lit your house on fire. Oh, I've been through it all. And you told your wife don't worry, baby, I'm a hardwood guy, I know how to do electrical oh, at my house.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, I've never really screwed up too bad at the house come on, tough guy dude.
Speaker 2:In fact we're sitting in our basement. I can give you guys one right now. He doesn't want to give one, I'll give you one. If you look at the back, uh, you can't see it here, but right behind us. I opened up that wall right, and so my friend was supposed to come over and help me take it down so I could put up an lvl by myself. Well, I was going to have him come over to. He didn't show. I'm like, screw you, I'm gonna do it myself. I got it. So I dropped the wood. I get the lvl up. I step back down. I forgot to clear the wood. I step right on the nail. It goes right through my foot. I get the lvl halfway up. I get a nail in my foot with a 2x4 underneath it. You're right, I have to kick that thing out so I can get back up and push the LVL back into place. So I can get it screwed in place. You had to kick the nail out of your foot.
Speaker 1:I did so. I just thought of a good one, dude, I can't believe you did those. I was drilling, digging holes for footings for a screened-in porch the big auger, two-man auger, and we had about nine or 12 of them to do. And we're towards the end and I drill down and I hit something. I'm like what the heck is that? I realize it's the septic tank.
Speaker 3:Oh.
Speaker 1:So I said now we're hitting shit baby, now we're talking to you and I said well, we're not gonna put one here, and I just moved over and put one next to it oh my god, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:I love that. All right, michael kerouac authentic hardwood. You've grown the right business. You've done it the right way. Again, people, it doesn't happen overnight. Welcome to the world of running your own business the right way. We we got to keep doing it. Keep going up that mountain, don't forget. You can always check this podcast out, the Small Business Safari. Don't give us a follow or do, because if you liked it, you've got to freaking follow it. All right, man, we're out of here. Alan, we got to go. Cheers everybody, thank you.
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