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The Small Business Safari
Have you ever sat there and wondered "What am I doing here stuck in the concrete zoo of the corporate world?" Are you itching to get out? Chris Lalomia and his co-host Alan Wyatt traverse the jungle of entrepreneurship. Together they share their stories and help you explore the wild world of SCALING your business. With many years of owning their own small businesses, they love to give insight to the aspiring entrepreneur. So, are you ready to make the jump?
The Small Business Safari
Small Business Safari: From Law Firm Leadership to Holiday Traditions with Lisa Shippel
Ever wondered how intuition plays a role in business success, or how Thanksgiving traditions can vary so widely? Join us as we embark on a "Small Business Safari," where we blend business insights with personal tales, offering a unique take on small business ownership.
Our guest, Lisa Shippel, founder of Lisa Shippel Law, shares her inspiring career transformation from aspiring news broadcaster to accomplished lawyer. Lisa opens up about her journey in real estate and estate planning law, as well as her unexpected path to establishing a successful law firm. Her story is a testament to the power of mentorship, leadership, and the importance of fostering long-term client relationships. Alongside Lisa’s insights, we discuss family entrepreneurship, the intricacies of client retention, and the nuances of growing a law firm with authenticity and heart.
Celebrate with us as we reach the top 5% of podcasts, and hear about our exciting plans for future expansion. This episode is packed with learning, and a shared passion for storytelling, designed to entertain and inspire listeners from all walks of life.
From the Zoo to Wild is a book for entrepreneurs passionate about home services, looking to move away from corporate jobs. Chris Lalomia, a former executive, shares his path, discoveries, and tools to succeed as a small business owner in home improvement retail. The book provides the mindset, habits, leadership style, and customer-oriented processes necessary to succeed as a small business owner in home services.
But this is a great example of you using your intuition. How do you train Courtney, your associate, to have that same intuition?
Speaker 2:Through osmosis Nice.
Speaker 1:She rubs her arm too. I'm going to go work there for a day.
Speaker 2:I let her actually like. Sometimes I'm like hey, come in my office, I'm making a phone call, I just want her to hear how I talk to the people on the other end. Work through a situation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, you're not going to learn it all in one day. I've been doing this over 30 years. Welcome to the Small Business Safari, where I help guide you to avoid those traps, pitfalls and dangers that lurk when navigating the wild world of small business ownership. I'll share those gold nuggets of information and invite guests to help accelerate your ascent to that mountaintop of success. It's a jungle out there and I want to help you traverse through the levels of owning your own business that can get you bogged down and distract you from hitting your own personal and professional goals. So strap in Adventure Team and let's take a ride through the safari and get you to the mountaintop.
Speaker 1:Oh boy, ellen, we're back in studio getting ready to talk it up. If you're driving in your truck, listen up, man. This is going to be a lot of fun. If you're driving in your car, this is going to be even more fun. Oh wow, why? Why? Because we've got a lawyer today. Oh God, we're in trouble. Let's talk about lawyers for a minute, shall we? Let's? So they, so they are amazing.
Speaker 2:Said no one ever.
Speaker 1:Said no one ever. Thank you, Lisa. Right, you hear some of these lines of what's going on and nobody in business ever wants to have to talk to a lawyer because you're probably in trouble or trying to negotiate something or you're trying to figure out a way to get out of something.
Speaker 3:Isn't that primarily because people wait way too long before they talk to their lawyer?
Speaker 1:That's probably a good point. That's why I'm here. But there's another reason, though. Why do I want to talk to him? They're not fun, even though Troy's a lawyer and now a judge.
Speaker 3:He is a judge in your pocket.
Speaker 1:And I got a pocket judge which as an Italian, I'm very happy to have a pocket judge. It's always good to have one in North Carolina. So when I go into North Carolina and rip it up, you may have to expand your empire to North Carolina. I might. You know that's a great point, because there is somebody up there. That's two good points. I've gotten already, did you?
Speaker 3:hear that that doesn't count. Yes, they do.
Speaker 1:Two nothing, and we haven't even started to, but which has not been much really, really, I know.
Speaker 3:How was your Thanksgiving?
Speaker 1:Thanksgiving was good. I fried a turkey.
Speaker 3:Did you have spaghetti with?
Speaker 1:it, of course, always, doesn't everybody? What Every time? I mean, I saw, I saw a post on Facebook what, what are your, what are your go-to sides on Thanksgiving? And of course, people are trying to be cute and do this and do this and do that. And uh, and you're like nobody said spaghetti. Do this and do that? And uh, and you're like nobody said spaghetti. I'm like whoa huh, everybody has pasta zucca with their uh, turkey. No, no, no, no, all right, how about yours? How was yours? It was great.
Speaker 3:Yeah had a good old-fashioned southern thanksgiving with the in-laws and then you have mac and cheese with the southern they did, and that was the first time my in-laws who moved here from the west coast. They got invited and, uh, my mother-in-law quite liked the mac and cheese with the turkey. That was good.
Speaker 1:There you go, yeah, yeah, and they hammered the congealed jello, the salad, oh, you know, the green with the fruit bits and stuff every time I hear that one, I just think christmas vacation, yeah. And I keep thinking the cat's in there too, right, you remember that one? No, she doesn't remember that one?
Speaker 3:okay? Well, the day after we hopped on the plane to belgium, did I tell you that?
Speaker 1:that's where I thought we were gonna go, because I hadn't done much. You're like well, and then next thing you know, you're out there doing band of brothers and marching across the uh europe yeah, it was pretty awesome.
Speaker 3:So I remember telling you last time that, uh, we'd gone down to bastogne with my son and it turns out that one of his friend's father lives out in Eastern Belgium, supposedly only spoke French but really was disappointed we didn't reach out when we went last time.
Speaker 3:So all these years later we let him know and he actually picked us up at the train station, took to lunch, took us all around bastogne to places that we wouldn't have known, and they're getting ready for the 80th anniversary of the battle of the bulge and they know full well that this could be the last time, will be the last time any veterans might be able to make it, so it's pretty special. There were banners up on the building saying thanks guys, and I mean those people remember. And my new friend Eves, I mean we looked at every monument and he just studied them carefully and very reverentially and he told me a story that his great-grandmother was pregnant during the battle. His grandmother was seven years old and the great-grand grandmother hid two GIs in her attic where the Germans were searching for him, and one of the GIs said hey, if the baby you're carrying happens to be a girl, a great name would be Jenny, and he has a great aunt, jenny, as a result of that.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. So why is this so important? Because last time you educated me and said, hey, band of brothers. And I'm like, oh, that's right. So I is this so important? Because last time you educated me and said, hey, band of Brothers. And I'm like, oh, that's right. So I have actually splurged and I just binge watched Band of Brothers since our last time we got together, did you? And I finished it off.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, so the malarkey, you remember him, the one who was searching for a pistol. My wife's family is from that part of Oregon and they knew the malarkey family. Yeah, so we had that connection. And it found out at thanksgiving that judy's great uncle was taken prisoner in the battle of the bulge. He tried to take on a tank with a rifle. Lost. They took him prisoner. He finished out the war in a stalag, made friends with the camp guard they corresponded to the day they died.
Speaker 3:Wow, there's all these cool stories. So we actually went up the day the the week before we went, went up to Toccoa, went to the museum there, got a couple of little mementos and a bottle of this Knob Creek bourbon and brought it to Eve's, and so it kind of connected the whole thing for him. But he took us up to Jack's Woods, which they call Bois Jacques, where you can still see Easy Company's foxholes, yeah, which they call Bois Jacques, where you can still see Easy Company's foxholes, yeah, and then the town of Foy, which they pronounce Foy, which I got goosebumps because it was spitting snow and it was foggy and we're two weeks away from when that battle commenced and it looked just like it did in Band of Brothers. Wow, yeah, the hair on my arm stood up.
Speaker 1:Wow, it's a great movie. You know what's funny is? I am now the president of Nary Wow.
Speaker 3:Thank you, I was waiting for a little bit.
Speaker 1:So I had my first board meeting and for an icebreaker to get the board going, I had everybody pick their favorite movie and their favorite music artist and I had a few dissenters and one of them picked Panda Brothers. But I had everybody try to pick who was what and I played their music that they all put in there, amazingly eclectic. Oh, that's fun. It was 13 different people, 13 different genres. Well, I should say 13 there. What country was the dominant one? But after that it got a little crazy. We were everything from lincoln park to frank sinatra interesting.
Speaker 2:How about that? That is a range yes, all right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's get to it. Let's go learn some stuff today. Learn me something. Let's go do something. Let's have some fun.
Speaker 3:Let's see if we can get another pocket lawyer. I know it's always good to have them. I'm going to work that up.
Speaker 1:You can't have enough. You can't have enough. I need more than just three. I mean what? So we have Lisa Schippel from Lisa Schippel Law.
Speaker 1:Isn't that? How about that? Again, they Very original. Back to the lawyers. They have to have their name. Well, she needed to keep it simple for you, obviously, right, that's why I did it. So Lisa has started her own practice, and she was introduced to us by two of our former guests, and well one, steve Beecham, who and then, when I found out that she knew Tina McKenna, I was like oh then we're totally in If she can hang with Tina. We know this chick's going to be a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:You're not going to be your typical lawyer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we have Lisa. On Lisa, I wanted you just to tell everybody a little bit about your background and how you got to the point of starting your business, and then we'll talk about that.
Speaker 2:Sure. So when I graduated from law school, I moved down to Alpharetta and started working at a firm in Roswell that was back in 94. Father and son team. They did real estate and estate planning, and I worked with them for 17 years, and then, around 08, 09, the market started to turn a little bit. In 2010, I also got divorced and by 11, I was just ready to be by myself in everything which included practice of law. So I just decided if I'm not making money working with other people, then I'll just. It was a good time for me to start my business right. It wasn't like I'd be giving anything up financially. I felt like, if I had just a couple of clients each month, that I could build something up in the downturn, learn my systems and processes and get it all organized while I had time, because business was light, and so in 2011, I started my own firm.
Speaker 1:So I think that's fascinating. So first let's go back to law school. When you go to law school, did you say that's why you went there? Because you wanted to get into real estate and estate planning?
Speaker 2:Oh no, not at all.
Speaker 1:Right. What did you want to do?
Speaker 2:So I was a news broadcasting major in college and I decided I didn't want to live in Iowa making $13,000 a year when I graduated and my dad said if you want to go to law school, I will help you pay for it. And the market was also horrible in 1991 when I graduated from college. So I decided, okay, I'll go to school for another three years and become a lawyer. And at that time I thought, you know, I would be a legal correspondent or something like that for NBC or CNN and I'd wind up in Atlanta doing news broadcasting with a legal side to it.
Speaker 1:Nice, so that was the line I was going to get in, so I could get on TV. Love it yeah, and here you're on, you're on, well, you're on. Well, we'll be on youtube, so that won't. Yeah, it doesn't really it's not.
Speaker 3:It's not quite the same, but she's not pretending, she's not feeling it.
Speaker 1:So all right, so you take off, you do the real estate law. You said you just took a chance to start your business. Did you have a plan? Did you? Did you like have it all laid out?
Speaker 2:no, okay and no. So I called a few different solo practitioners that I knew and I said what does it take to start your own law firm? Or how did you start your own law firm? And what I learned was that starting a law firm is probably one of the least expensive businesses you can start on your own as long as you have a law degree.
Speaker 3:Well, there is that.
Speaker 2:Because really all you needed at the time was a computer, your brain and some liability insurance and you could pretty much open up a law firm. You could work out of your house, you could do a number of things, and what I did was I just got a small office. I started renting a small office and I figured if I had three or four clients a month I could. I don't know, I didn't read any like business. I hope I don't disappoint you, but I didn't read any like business books. I didn't come up with a business plan. I just basically thought of how much I needed to live and if I could do that each month. And then I came up with the idea that business is like an inverted pyramid. If I started with one client the first month and I did a good job with one client, then hopefully the next month I would have two clients and then from there it would be four and then it would keep growing exponentially and really it has, fortunately for me, and really that was my business plan.
Speaker 1:How about that? All right. Well, that's a great podcast. Thank you everybody for coming. No, I hope it didn't disappoint you.
Speaker 3:You know now she's successful.
Speaker 1:Oh hell, successful, Hell of successful. I mean great. Yeah, I mean, I looked it up, it's a pretty big firm now. So how many people work for you now?
Speaker 2:Right now there's seven of us. I have one associate and the rest is admin staff. We do. Basically, our practice is mainly real estate and estate planning and we do help people start small businesses. So it turns out that our clientele, or our average client, really needs all three of those things for the most part. You know someone who's buying and selling real estate on the regular also needs LLC set up for their holdings, also needs a good estate plan where someone understands their assets. And you know, it just fell into place for me, basically because I started learning from two different people one who handled the real estate part of the firm and the other person who handled the estate planning. I learned from two gentlemen for a very long time and I think it's for me a great practice because real estate isn't always strong but estate planning is always steady. So when the real estate isn't booming, there's always something else for us to focus on and it's what helps keep everything going from day to day in the office.
Speaker 3:She's a pretty intuitive business person, wouldn't you say?
Speaker 1:I would say she knew a lot more than I did when I first started and I was killing myself building the business plan, talking to many of his mentors. This comes easy to her. Why is it I? Don't know, it's so simple. It did sound simple mean, yeah, and I can promise you, my path has not been simple, it's been torturous and then well, but she did say she had to use her mind in the beginning. So clearly that's the problem. Well, she had that advantage yeah, I have definitely.
Speaker 1:If she was, I was down one there. So that's, that's pretty amazing that you're able to do that and see that those were complementary practices. And you figured out uh, the real estate is lumpy, but transactional probably a little bit more lucrative, but the estate planning, while maybe a little smaller, is a steady plot and pays the bills.
Speaker 2:Correct, correct. You know estate planning it's, it's steady and and I don't so. So with my estate planning I also know what I don't know, and I'm like that in business in general. So in my real estate you can give me anything and I know that. I know it inside and out. With the real estate, okay, I won't go to court, I don't litigate anything, but I can draft contracts, do commercial, residential, you name it. I can figure it out. Estate planning I limit myself to the basic estate planning. I don't help people who need special needs trusts. I don't help people with large estates, meaning 20 million plus. I just stick to the basics in the estate planning because I don't think that you can know everything.
Speaker 1:You know everything about everything so even in estate planning there are niches. I think so yeah yeah, I think that's an interesting point as well. I would never were to find, never would have either. So you, you found out your niche. You, you stick into that. Stay away from this stuff. Do you refer that away? I do and then in turn probably they refer you back correct.
Speaker 2:So I do a lot of referral business. Because I've been in Alpharetta for over 30 years, I know a lot of people, and people call me just even if they need a bankruptcy attorney or a divorce attorney or whatever. I'm a go-to person for a referral and so I have definitely people who do similar work to me, but they might only do that work or they only do estate planning, they only do large asset estates and that's why I send those clients.
Speaker 1:So personal injury? Do you really refer to Morgan Morgan?
Speaker 2:I don't know anyone there.
Speaker 1:Yeah right.
Speaker 2:I don't know that they know anyone. No, I'm kidding.
Speaker 1:Right Now we're getting there. So again. Ah, now we're getting at it. So again, lawyers, and you start thinking about it, and wherever you are actually I was just out in Los Angeles and the billboards out there Says the man who I really haven't done anything lately.
Speaker 3:Well, that was just a little bit of football, no.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, a lot of football, but the billboards out there, you can't drive a mile. And of course, you can't drive a mile in LA. Thank you, because you can't. I mean, it's just so slow. There is a billboard like every mile. And then I came back to Atlanta and started looking again. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, every one of them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we have a fair amount. You drive down to Florida. It's insane. I hate those. Oh, bob got me 700 grand.
Speaker 2:So you know about personal injury and how it works right.
Speaker 1:No clue. Okay, so that is I mean, yes, I know how to get hurt, trust me.
Speaker 2:That's more of a marketing business for attorneys. So the personal injury attorney firm they do personal injury but a lot of what they do. Those guys on the billboards. They bring in a lot of business and then they refer it out and they refer for a commission or a piece of action. It's the one thing that you can get a commission on a referral. Wow yeah, no, I did not know that, so that's why they pay the bucks for the billboards because, then they get the calls and then they refer it out.
Speaker 1:And because I don't do personal injury, I don't know exactly how it works right, but it's definitely like I'll refer this business to you, or we'll be on the case together and I'll get a fee just for bringing it in to you.
Speaker 3:So now we've learned something about that Different revenue stream Right?
Speaker 1:All right, let's go back to the beginning of the biz. Uh, when you got started, you got going and you talked about exponential growth, which is exactly what I had.
Speaker 3:My business plan was exponential growth, um well, and I know that is mathematically correct, right point one uh, zero, zero, zero point.
Speaker 1:One times two point one times 0.1 is, yeah, yeah, very low, all right. So was there ever a point in time where you went? This isn't working. I'm not going to be able to keep this going, or you always fly.
Speaker 2:There's never been. I've never had a problem. It just it like.
Speaker 3:Luckily just happens and it continues to happen, and so now we're.
Speaker 1:I kind of want her to like rub my arm or something like that.
Speaker 3:Oh thank you hey, hey, this is this, isn't that podcast. No, we're not on that one again. It's gonna happen to me now. All right, okay, all right, well, he's got lucky all right, so I just one.
Speaker 2:One thing about me is that I don't like change. You know, I'm like I read that who Moved my Cheese so many years ago? Okay, but okay, so I just like the status quo. I have a lot of the same clients for 25, 30 years now and I'm never technically looking to grow or expand my practice, because I don't know why. I don't know the answer to that question.
Speaker 3:You realize, sometimes they move or they die, so you have to replace them.
Speaker 2:I do, but they help me replace themselves.
Speaker 1:You're killing off her clients.
Speaker 3:To help her maintain the status quo.
Speaker 2:Honestly, if I do a real estate transaction and my client is the purchaser, a lot of times later the person who sold will call me on their next go around. So my clientele just keeps growing. A lot of it from just touch, from being in my office. But what I was saying is we're so busy again and I don't even know how we get that busy, but I'm I'm so thankful for it that we're.
Speaker 3:We're knocking down a wall and we're taking over the office next door to rub your arm too, chris we're gonna pause the podcast, for I need to get a rub too, because I am not that guy.
Speaker 1:I am a guy that's absolutely going against the cheese, grater with my forehead and rip. My eyebrows are getting ripped off and I can't. I mean, she's just growing, it just happens. I'm like and we're ending the podcast now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, all right, goodbye I can't wait to talk to her about how she hires people, and they probably all stayed with her since day one well, no, oh, now we get to that dirty nitty gritty.
Speaker 1:Finally, misery loves company. L Lisa Please.
Speaker 2:So my dad used to make fun of me because he'd be like you're worse than Trump, because you know, with the year fire.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Because I was going through a spell where it was like a revolving door in my office and I really couldn't get any traction and, thankfully, the first thing I did, I would say, is that I hired my sister-in-law yes, damn late and you fired her.
Speaker 1:No, did you hear that she said something else that goes against every wisdom out there? And then I hired my sister-in-law and things went well.
Speaker 3:I don't have a business plan.
Speaker 1:I hired a family, clearly not Italian.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I have two very successful clients, like ultra successful clients, and they both have their siblings in help in their office, okay, and run the business, and what I learned from them was that having someone that always has your back helps.
Speaker 1:yeah, all jokes aside you, you, we had uh richard grove on from, uh, he is the entity mr wall storage, and he he said the same thing. Is that you know, because you know, at the end of the day, they got your, your back. Exactly you know that you can trust them.
Speaker 2:Right, and she's not going to quit and just walk out the door.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and even if you get mad at each other, it doesn't end it, because you're still related.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, right, all right. So back to the Lucky Horseshoe Club. Obviously she's being very modest, because I do know one of the things and that's how we've met you is that you do do a lot of networking in Alpharetta. You give back to the community, you do a lot. I know you're a Rotarian. Thank you for doing that. I know that's important to you. Is that been what you think has been key as well?
Speaker 2:You take care of clients but has the networking helped or is that just an outlet for you? So Rotary is not a business organization. It's not where you go to network, it's where you go to give back to the community.
Speaker 3:That sounds like a standard disclaimer to me. But go ahead.
Speaker 2:Well, because you're not supposed to join Rotary to grow your business, that should come naturally from being a good person, okay.
Speaker 1:She said we had two of them. So, chris, have you ever been Rotary? The answer is no. Chris, are you a good person? Um no, that's why my business has not grown. Naturally, that's why I've had to go out there and advertise the crap out of it I'm glad you picked up on that, because I didn't really want to I didn't want to have to point it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know she's subtle, but she's good at it too, all right I used to be cat grin going there I used to be super active in chamber, okay, okay, and I was even years ago the chairperson of the Alpharetta Chamber of Commerce and that's where I would go to network. But again, I wasn't really there to network per se. I was really there to give back to the community as well, to help other people grow their businesses and create this great business community. That was really my goal with it. And now in Rotary I go there. I really just go there because I enjoy the people and I enjoy doing the good that we do for the community. But in turn that does come back to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, as you give, you get. I mean, we've talked about this a lot and while I'm saying the president of Nary, it really is a nonprofit and you're giving. And that's the message I gave the leadership team is that, look, you're all volunteering here. I mean you hope to get a job out of this. You're in the wrong spot. You're here to give back to the 280 members we have. You're here to support and help them, and that's the thing. But you'll find that the more you give, the more you get. But you've got to have that giving heart first.
Speaker 2:You can't go into it going all right, what do I get? What do I get? Where's that lead? Or? If I get, then I'll give, it's not going to happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if I get something, then I'll get. Yeah, you can't have that mindset. So obviously you went into it with the right mindset about doing that and doing business, and so you've grown with a sister-in-law still wild to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so she had a job. Oh, actually it was during COVID and she had a job that she didn't like so much and my brother would always call me and complain about like Mary didn't like her job, blah, blah, blah. And with COVID we were starting to work a little bit more hybrid. Everyone had computers that they could take home with them and bring back to the office, and so Mary doesn't even live in Georgia, she lives in South Carolina, and I was like, well, I think I can train her remotely and have her work for the company. And she did. She started working for the company doing all the things pretty much that I didn't want to do, like billing.
Speaker 1:That is a great hire. That is an awesome hire, yeah she's even intuitive in hiring.
Speaker 3:I know wow, the higher your weak spots.
Speaker 1:Man, she's good at this stuff, all right. So um, intuition is hard to uh hard, hard to hard you can't learn it yeah, yeah, so you have it clearly, yeah 100%. Were your family. Were they entrepreneurs? Was that?
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, okay. So that's. That's another thing. Um, I come from a family of entrepreneurs, so I don't like look at my business, are you okay?
Speaker 1:Oh, you can't say that he's dying. Don't worry about that, we have him on mute. Don't worry, I know a good probate lawyer Dying. Don't worry about that, we have him on mute.
Speaker 2:Don't worry, I know a good propane lawyer. Do you have?
Speaker 1:a will. Oh, he's back now. I cut him off. I mean, that's enough, hey, if you're going to die, die in your own time. I'm caring, I'm a caring host. Okay, so your family?
Speaker 2:So, yes, so my grandfather's, on both sides One was a wholesale florist in Manhattan had his own business. It was a family business with his sister. And my other grandfather had many different businesses. He had a dry cleaning business, a jewelry business, all sorts of crazy businesses. And then my dad, he was a teacher. He was teaching, but he also started a summer camp business. So his camping business has been around since 1972 in New York metro area and my brother works with him.
Speaker 2:And so I've just been raised in a family where no one's ever worked for a corporation.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, that's great. It's funny. You said the grandparents, because I attribute my grandparents to giving me the entrepreneurial spirit. My dad opted out of our family business years ago and did the corporate thing, and I watched him and I said, no, I want to be like grandpa. And my grandmother which is also wild had her own business, because that did not happen in the fifties and sixties. And so I just looked at them and, yes, we always hold our grandparents to the highest esteem. I use that line in our business all the time. I said don't treat that house like your house, don't treat that house like your mom's house. You treat that like your grandmother's house, because if you treat it like grandma's house, you'll be doing things the right way, and so that's amazing. But obviously that's where you picked up some of the intuition.
Speaker 3:Did you ever work in any other businesses?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was a summer counselor in my dad's business, but not like directly for my dad, because my dad, he franchised out the camps after a few years and so I worked for one of the franchisees. What a great counselor.
Speaker 1:All right, so I just did this. So I got to ask now because we just talked about this. One of the things I did with the, with the team, was your leadership in how you run your business. I think and really being a leader is a nurture nature thing, right, and so I'm on the nurture side, and I think and really being a leader is a nurture nature thing, right, and so I'm on the nurture side and I think it's three formation formative moments, and so one of my questions for you would be what's your first job that you ever had?
Speaker 2:My first job what well, besides like babysitting I worked as a summer camp counselor at someone else's camp, like as a counselor in training, when I was like 13. And then my real first job when I had papers was at mcdonald's so you did work at mcdonald's I will hire anyone that worked at mcdonald's really it's so hard so what did you learn at mcdonald's? That I really couldn't hack it yeah nice, the-through is impossible. It was like before everything was automated.
Speaker 1:I couldn't hear you.
Speaker 2:Then I had to go cook something and then bring it over and package it. It wasn't like it was coming off a conveyor or anything back then.
Speaker 1:So you learned that. I think the second thing I learned was what was your first supervision job, your first time you had actually supervised people?
Speaker 2:I'm going to ask you too this Ellen. I'm trying to think I mean other than I don't even know, maybe when I started my own business. Wow, I mean I've had assistants in the other law firms. I guess I supervised them. But yeah, I guess. I guess after a few years I had assistance.
Speaker 1:And then the last thing I'd ask is who was your best boss ever?
Speaker 2:Oh Don Rollator.
Speaker 1:And what made him best.
Speaker 2:It was like working for family.
Speaker 1:What did he teach you?
Speaker 2:He taught oh, he taught me to make sure I return every single phone call before the end of the day, that I should never keep my files on the floor in case there's a flood. I'm just laughing, but it was really just to make sure that my files were present.
Speaker 1:That sounds crazy, but I actually, as you know, I also co-host a home show, alan Shameless plug Not even shameless, I'm plugging this thing, so you got to go out there and check it out.
Speaker 2:You have no shame.
Speaker 1:I have none. All Four Seasons Home Show. Go check it out. Extra1063.com. I am now the host and going to be sponsoring soon. So you learned that You're the host. Now I'm going to be the sponsoring host. Yeah, wow, yeah.
Speaker 3:Man, you're taking over everything. Nary, this N.
Speaker 1:Extra 1063 with its incredible five-mile radius. Yes, I'm taking over the world five miles at a time, thank you. But you learn not to put your files on the floor. And we learned from a guy at the restoration company don't ever keep cardboard in your basement. So, everybody, you just learned something Don't ever put cardboard in your basement, because when a flood happens, it goes to shit. Yeah, I mean sorry, don't worry, it's not that podcasting this isn't family friendly.
Speaker 2:It's okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you learned that and then. So, with all those, what has helped you as you're now leading your firm and doing what you're doing? What do you use today to help lead your firm that you learned from those three instances?
Speaker 2:Well one. I want my employees to feel value, that I value them. I want them to treat our clients with respect and each client is on an equal playing field, that every client's important to us, whether they're a pain in the neck or they're really super nice or their thing is easy or hard to deal with. That you want to just be good to everyone who calls the office and I want to teach the people in my office. I want to teach them to learn more than they knew when they started working for me. I would rather have someone who worked at McDonald's, who knows nothing about law, come to work for me. As long as they seem organized and neat and caring and smart enough to do the work, I can train them to work for me, as long as they have that drive.
Speaker 1:How about that, ellen? I would ask you those three but, this is really Lisa's episode. It is her episode. I'm sorry. We can talk about that next time. No, we're not going to talk about you. Back to me, I mean Lisa.
Speaker 3:So what do you tend to let people go for?
Speaker 2:It takes a lot for me to let you go. Um, I've let, I've let an employee go because the employee the employee was not really um did not work well with, but it was a long time it took a long time for me to figure that out.
Speaker 1:You know it's funny. You say that because I do think that's been one of those things. We always talk about, this as business owners is that if you talk to a consultant or I bring them in they always say what? Hire slowly, fire quickly. What do we do? The opposite, the exact opposite. You know why? Because these consultants probably have never been in my shoes, your shoes, your shoes, your shoes.
Speaker 1:On the other side of this, listen to this yeah, you got a hole to fill and you need to fill it. And you fill that hole Because, as Rummy said, donald Rumsfeld said in the late 90s, you go to war with the army. You've got and you're trying to get as much as you can in there and it's hard and you know it's in in. You know, I've heard this from guys like I'm totally wrong with what I'm saying here, you won't ever see this in a book. But we do, we hire and we take our shot. And then what do we do? When they start to fail? We go. You know what? I can coach him up. Yeah, right, and I I mean, I'm compassionate to a point.
Speaker 3:I'm a good trainer. You know, I see potential in this person, all that stuff.
Speaker 1:And so you hold on to them, probably, yeah, oh, and they've got a couple of big clients wrapped around, you know them. And so you, you find ways to say, oh, I can keep. Oh well, there's one redeeming quality, but yet there's 20 sitting in front of you and it's hard, right, it's hard to say.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry I'm going to have to do this. Well, and the unfortunate thing is is all the other employees see what's going on. They see this person needs to go and they see you not doing anything, and that really challenges your culture.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hate to say that. That was a good point. Damn it, but it is so I I I feel your pain because I do the same thing. It is hard to do that.
Speaker 2:But now I look for different things in employees than the normal person maybe.
Speaker 3:Well, they're probably the right thing. So let's hear.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, everybody is now. Actually, you probably slammed on your brakes, pulled over to the side and going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like two weeks from now there's going to be this. I want exponential growth like Lisa, I want to be just like Lisa. All right, go. So a lot of times it's hard to find a really good full-time employee that can be with you, you know, nine to five or nine to six or whatever your hours are, every single day of the week. So for me to get good admin staff, I hire people who can flex for me either three days a week or only mornings, or work remotely some days, because if I'm giving them the flexibility that they need in their life, then when they're with me they're on and they're giving 200%.
Speaker 1:Wow, that is counterintuitive. But you know what this is, why I have a cheese grater and eyebrows. And she has just floated through, making business happening All right, so that's a good one, admin. What about lawyers?
Speaker 2:So I need another one. Okay, I'm looking for an attorney right now, and that's hard to find. I have one associate that I hired. She's been with me for three years and I hired her out of law school and what I told her is like her first year, she's going to learn more in one year with me than she did in three years of law school. If she just lets me teach her and I would would say in my office she got to learn more than anyone she went to law school with that's um, ah, fuck it.
Speaker 1:Uh, that's a ballsy. I love that. I'm like come on, I love it. Hey, baby, you can work with me. You're gonna learn more, you know what. But you did, and she did she's amazing, you know, I believe it though would you hire another one right out of law school yes
Speaker 2:wow yes, as long as they have the drive to to or the ambition to learn, like, as long as they want to be a sponge, you know there's the big thing. So they want to be a sponge, so you're looking for that well, I'm looking for someone who does, who isn't lazy, right, aren't we all?
Speaker 1:all right now that's yeah, I mean, come on. Okay, thank you, captain. Obvious, so so am I, but I clearly am blowing it because I take the crowbar to my head every freaking day. So, uh, you pick that up, all right, so, but when you're there, obviously she stayed with you now for three years oh, I want her to be with me until I retire and she can take over the firm yeah sure does she know that?
Speaker 1:yes, why would you tell her that? Oh shit, now I'm figuring it out, damn it, because I tell you have so much to learn.
Speaker 3:You can learn more with her in one podcast than the last 16 years, in fact you can learn more from me.
Speaker 1:In 15 minutes you have the entire life and have a go to this one podcast that's it. This is the podcast, so listen to everybody. Listen to this one. You know what we're into this thing 30 minutes, uh or so, and if you're still sticking here, you're about to learn a lot. How has lisa figured this thing out?
Speaker 2:I don't know no, she's not just lucky?
Speaker 1:no, obviously. So you have a work ethic to you as well, and you know I do.
Speaker 2:I've always worked hard, maybe a little too hard. I'm trying to kick it back a little bit, but I need more people to be able to kick back on my own a little bit.
Speaker 1:So how do you go find a lawyer um?
Speaker 2:so when I hired courtney, I hired her by doing a posting at law school, at her law school, and um, and I had just a few different attorneys interview with me and um, all right, hang on the posting to the law school.
Speaker 1:So, um, so my son's about to go to law school and he was doing the typical UGA student Dad, I'm only going to the top 50. I'm like Austin, you realize. I only went to the bottom 50 schools. I mean, of course, the best engineering schools ever. I said so let's slow our roll here. Big guy, I mean he's a really smart kid. Where did you post? Did you go Harvard Yale?
Speaker 2:She went to Mercer. I posted at Mercer. I posted at Mercer because I'm not downtown Atlanta. Okay, I'm a suburban lawyer in a smaller town I mean, Alpharetta is big now but it's suburban and I think that there's a different person who's looking to do the downtown law firm feel or vibe than someone who wants to work in Alpharetta. And so I felt, like the folks at Mercer being in Macon and coming from all over the state that they were, probably I'd have a better chance of finding someone who would be okay in the suburban setting.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, she's still smarter than me. I mean, not that that was ever a question after the beginning, but it's just one thing after another. It's just good thinking, think about that for a minute right, know where you are and know what your candidate will look like and what that looks like. I mean that's huge, because in the law world obviously it's way more niched. We just figured out. It's more niche than that. But if you want to go downtown, her downtown vibe thing. I love that. She said it like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because those people would use you as a stepping stone to get to that.
Speaker 1:Correct, yeah, and you're going to come in and they're going to wonder why they weren't working 100 hours a week. And they're going to wonder why they weren't working 100 hours a week and they wonder why you didn't tell them how bad they were and why you didn't grind them into the ground, because that's what those guys are doing. That's the only thing I can at least explain to my son before he does this is that there's a whole world and you're going to have to go figure it out and I don't know the answer. Well, tv's made that sort of sexy, right? I mean, I love suits yeah, oh, I love suits you can't.
Speaker 1:You're the only lawyer ever who said that oh my god, I binge watched it one summer no, you did not the whole entire. Thing, oh my god, you did not.
Speaker 2:Oh my god I have a really um busy social life now yeah, well, that's okay.
Speaker 3:How realistic was it?
Speaker 1:oh well, it's not like my firm well, it's not even realistic at all because I I have two other friends who do the high powered law stuff we haven't talked about and they were like dude, you know that nobody can do M&A and do these. I'm like you are. Yeah, I get that, but but it's still so cool he pulls it off and he comes in there.
Speaker 2:He knows everything.
Speaker 1:Everything about every aspect of the law. I'm like dude. I said as a non-lawyer I said I'm so digging he goes dude, you're such a I can't say what he said.
Speaker 3:But let's just say it started with W and ended with E and might arrive with my impression of suits is you son of a bitch? Cause they were always backstabbing.
Speaker 1:No, and my thing is, I don't give a goddamn what you think I'm like. I use that line all the time. I said I should have been a lawyer, although I hate law and I can't, and you don't have a brain, remember that, and I don't have a ring. Brain, brain, oh brain.
Speaker 3:I don't have, I can't do that, so, oh my god, you have a computer, no brain.
Speaker 1:All right, guys, this is the unicorn we have found her. She not only knows how to do business, she's in the world how to do law and she binge-watched suits and liked it as a lawyer. And you're like what? Because I've been to, I mean I did, we binge-watched suits the whole time and I would call troy, my pocket judge up in North Carolina. I'm like dude, did you know this one? And this one? He goes. Chris, you know you can't do that. I'm like I know, but it's so cool, it's TV, it was the best it would be during the day, and then at night he'd be pulling out this and the next thing oh my God, it thing, oh my god, it's the best ever. Um, I'm, I'm, I'm. Now I'm gonna go back and binge watch after band of brothers, all right.
Speaker 1:So back to uh, lisa, shall we? All right, it's your show. All right, lisa? Uh, you're at your stage, you've scaled, you've gotten to this point now and you're looking at the other side where she could take over your firm. The uh, the associate brought in. What do you want to do? I mean, what are your goals now for the next five, 10, 20, because you're very young?
Speaker 2:Okay, so I'm not that young, okay, I'm not even young. But so I'd say, over the next five years, I want to. I don't know that I even want to grow, grow, but I need to grow. I to have two other, the listener the look on chris's face is priceless.
Speaker 1:She was like.
Speaker 3:That was like saying there is no god with three years of podcasting down the tube, so you don't need to scale sorry, yeah, you know what and and podcast.
Speaker 1:You know we're probably not even gonna air this thing. If you guys listen to this thing, by the grace of god you got to listen to this one because, uh, and by the grace of god, you take some of these freaking lessons, because even if you just listen to her, you'll grow, grow what?
Speaker 3:what's the?
Speaker 1:lesson, though I?
Speaker 2:I don't know if you have to be smart like lisa, don't be dumb like chris.
Speaker 1:What?
Speaker 2:if you are good to your clients and your and your or your customers, right, you'll get more and then you'll have to grow. I feel like I have to grow isn't that what we all try?
Speaker 1:to do a burden, a burden of being so good at everything. Lisa says I have to grow, because they all keep coming to me. I have to grow. I'm like, oh my god, yeah, that's what I keep saying. Oh my god, I have to keep growing. Or, holy shit, where the hell is everybody?
Speaker 3:that's my line so maybe she needs to explain what being good to your customers looks like All right. Well, what do you do different than an other attorney?
Speaker 2:Okay, I don't act smarter than my clients.
Speaker 3:Oh, you don't talk down to them.
Speaker 2:I do not.
Speaker 3:Chris, write that down.
Speaker 2:I mean, I guess, it guess the same thing happens.
Speaker 1:If I've got someone, but in the house though I am. That's the problem.
Speaker 3:Just quit wielding your brain like a club and you might get someplace. But I do know more about that. But this is an interesting thing that you say, because I kind of want my lawyer to be really smart. And how do I know you're really smart if you're playing that down?
Speaker 2:Well, because you'll know, because I'll produce the results that you need. You're just going to have to go with it one time and see if it works out for you, and then you'll trust me. That's just how I feel. I don't use big words, I don't try and overcomplicate a deal. I'll tell people if you want me to review your contract or you want me to review your lease or do this transaction for you. I am not going to send you something back with a million red lines.
Speaker 3:I'm not going to correct you. There's one answer right there.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to correct you the commercial real estate agent says yeah, there's one answer right there I'm not going to.
Speaker 3:The commercial real estate agent says yeah, because we hate it when we use the standard GAR form more often than not. Georgia Association of Realtors. And anytime somebody goes, oh, I want my realtor to look at it it's like, oh God, it's going to come back just bleeding, dripping red.
Speaker 2:Well, it's funny that you say that, because I have a huge transaction where I'm representing the seller, that because I have a huge transaction where I'm representing the seller and we kind of wanted something easy, an easy contract, right, so I could either draft something or the purchaser's attorney could draft something. But what I suggested at the end of the day was, I said, just go with the GAR form and let's see if we could just use it, it works, it works and let's see if we can just use it.
Speaker 2:It works, it works. There's a lot of. There are some things that aren't added to the GAR form, that another attorney might add to a GAR form, but at the end of the day, they're not necessary. They're not and it works. The GAR form works for a reason.
Speaker 1:But this is a great example of you using your intuition. How do you train Courtney, your associate, to have that same intuition?
Speaker 2:Through osmosis Nice.
Speaker 1:She rubs her arm too. I'm going to go work there for a day.
Speaker 2:I let her actually like. Sometimes I'm like, hey, come in my office, I'm making a phone call. I just want her to hear how I talk to the people on the other end work through a situation, how I talk to the people on the other end work through a situation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:You're not going to learn it all in one day. I've been doing this over 30 years, so it takes time. You don't know that, people. Everyone's going to ask you to close something between Christmas and New Year's, right, and other attorneys are going to say, no, I'm giving away my secret, but no, I can't close this because we take off between Christmas and New Year's or whatever. And I say I can do it Because I know that even if I have a small staff, nine times out of ten someone else is not. They're not going to get it to the finish line for me. You know what I mean. Like someone else is going to fumble or say we're going to do it after this date.
Speaker 3:Oh, so you're waiting for the bank to fall on their face?
Speaker 2:Someone.
Speaker 3:And you're like, oh, I was there for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we'll do it first week of January.
Speaker 3:Genius.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, she's so good, she is really good.
Speaker 2:You know what?
Speaker 1:She's playing chess and I'm eating my checkers, my friend. That's the problem. I'm not even playing checkers, I'm just chewing on them.
Speaker 2:I mean we'll be ready if everyone else is ready, but a lot of times it's just something happens at the end of the year and they can't get it done.
Speaker 1:Something happens. Oh my gosh, lisa. I could keep going on and on and on, just because I want to learn and I want to be better. But I think I need osmosis.
Speaker 3:But we can't do it for everything we need to call your therapist again.
Speaker 1:I know well, yeah, she's on vacation, she can't she can't fit me in between.
Speaker 3:That's funny. I called her and she just picked up the phone I know she she said something about her rates changing.
Speaker 1:I don't know what that is, uh. So, lisa, this has been awesome. Actually, we've been talking about a lot of stuff and I would have to say, as terms, as lawyers go, actually in terms of just people, she's fun and interesting and really smart. Oh, thank you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, smart, but doesn't flaunt it.
Speaker 1:She didn't and I can see customers can go.
Speaker 3:You know what? This is an attorney that actually speaks a normal language that I can understand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you're an Alpharetta, you're in the. Actually you want to work at just an Alpharetta, right, you want to work in the state of Georgia, right?
Speaker 2:Oh no, I I close anything in the state Nice.
Speaker 1:All right, you got to call Lisa Schippel, do it, make it happen. If you guys want to get some work done, she'll work with small business owners. Of course, she loves you, all right. And if you want to get lucky and understand how to make things happen and get bigger, maybe you call Lisa Schippel. I'm coming up with taglines, I'm trying to work out Lisa Schippel taglines. But she doesn't even need to advertise, bro.
Speaker 3:No, because she doesn't want to grow, she just want to grow.
Speaker 1:That actually just. I mean, almost Did I ruin your show.
Speaker 3:It's 100%.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, 100%, hey I don't want to grow, I have to grow. Oh, is that what happens.
Speaker 3:I'm just nice to people and they oh, give me money.
Speaker 1:Oh my god so, guys, I'm gonna go with germany on that one, but but again, we can't have lisa leave without asking our famous four questions. Number one give us actually, you haven't written a book yet I did oh my god, we're gonna have to have a book club. Oh, did you write a?
Speaker 3:book Alan? No, I haven't, but I would rather hear how Lisa wrote her book. All right, lisa.
Speaker 2:That's a whole other show.
Speaker 3:I bet it was like.
Speaker 1:I just wrote a book. So what's a book you would refer to everybody on the podcast?
Speaker 2:Well, oh, I just read last year Younger Next Year. It's a health book. They have a male and a female version of the book and it just helps you, you know, think about how to stay healthy as you get older, so that you don't have as many medical problems later in life so, uh, bourbon every night.
Speaker 1:wine check uh. Hamburger check, steak, steak check. Uh, pressed cider mate Drink apple cider that's been fermented, check, check. So we're on track, I think. I think we read that book. All right, great, all right, that's number one. Give us the favorite feature of your home.
Speaker 2:Okay, I told you you would laugh. It is my heated bidet toilet seat.
Speaker 1:I will not laugh, but I will not use it. Thank you, we put them in and people say bidet, once you use it, you'll never. I'm like dude.
Speaker 2:Once you have the heated toilet seat, you just want to sit on a heated toilet seat. She's been to Japan.
Speaker 1:Does it sing songs?
Speaker 2:for you.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's where all our good ideas come from. It might be, but I'm telling you, actually, I just sold a client on a heated floor. I'm going to tell you, I'm in the South and I have a heated floor in my bathroom and this morning I spent five minutes in there going oh, I just love my heated floor because it's cool. But a heated bidet I'm just not sure I can go there. But I like that. You're right. I would laugh if you got me All right. So we need a diy nightmare story. I know you told me you didn't have one, but uh, we'll skip that one and we're gonna go to customer service, shall we? Let's? Because we are customer service freaks. Oh my god, let's go do it what about it?
Speaker 1:so she clearly doesn't know. Yeah, what is a pet?
Speaker 3:peeve of yours when you're the customer. Regarding customer service.
Speaker 2:When someone doesn't call me back or respond to my email and I have to ask them. And I'm not the kind of person that just will pepper you all day. But if you don't respond to me in 24 hours, 48 hours, it's the ghosting thing and it's happening.
Speaker 3:And it's not the kids, it's grown-ass adults. It's grown-ass adults, it's grown-ass adults. Yeah, let's talk about that for a minute. It drives me freaking nuts we're the health state. You only make money if you freaking answer your phone or call back and people still don't call back. I don't care if your building's already sold.
Speaker 1:At least give me the courtesy and let me know brother, I would tell you every time people say that I'm going to challenge them, I bet you don't get as many calls, texts or emails that I get every day, because I swear to God, my number is so flipping high right now in terms of the spam calls and other stuff going on. I know I can get back. It's a lack of focus and that's the hard part, because I can't figure out how to get these things out of the way. I think it's bad parenting. You know what?
Speaker 3:Can we bring back spanking? I think so. Corporal punishment and then ghosting Hand in hand.
Speaker 1:You ghost me and you're over 50, I'm spanking you. They deserve to be spanked. I think so too. Bring back caning. Whoa, I didn't say that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you did. Corporal punishment.
Speaker 1:No, I just said a little spanking.
Speaker 3:I'm public flogging.
Speaker 1:Answer your phone.
Speaker 2:All right, my mother was all can I say another thing that bothers me? Yeah, please don't call me, text me and email me all within yes, 10 seconds the full court press I. I respond right away. So when someone's like getting me, it all goes to my one phone right.
Speaker 3:I may be in a meeting. I may be at the doctor.
Speaker 1:Give me a minute all right, let's talk about that for a minute because we had to go. But we gotta keep talking because, all right, this one I got a friend of mine who sends me a text, then a text than a text, and he puts all of it together and he calls that drip texting. He goes that's how I get your attention. I'm like you realize, I'm in front of a client a lot of times when you're doing that and it's just blowing my phone up yeah, you get my attention in the fact that I'm really annoyed at you exactly yeah yeah, so he said that, too, he goes.
Speaker 1:Well, you called me back, didn't you? I'm like don't, don't, let me affirm this, because this is not good maybe, maybe, go for every extra text.
Speaker 3:I'm going to wait another half hour to call you back.
Speaker 1:I do. That's true, though how about the people who are just so impatient? They think if I'm the biggest pain in the ass, I'm the squeaky wheel You're going to grease me? No, bro, I ain't greasing shit, I'm going to fire you. Yeah, absolutely. Get ready. She is Trump what you, trump what you can't see that she's a nice trump you know what? I'll take that one. Yeah, all right, all right, all right. Last thing I can't remember what it was but it's got to be good.
Speaker 3:No, we skipped one. That's why we're done yeah, the diy one well, the diy one.
Speaker 1:You could tell a story about how you shot yourself with a hammer or something or or stepped on a nail, um, right through my foot as I tried to put up a a-foot header by myself. Yeah, I've done that too. I mean, I've got so many DIY nightmare stories. I did not light the house on fire, absolutely, and you can't prove it, mary Williams. I did not put her. The kitchen did not go on fire because of me. That was not a client, I'm kidding, but um, but it's, it's. I got so many great diy nightmare stories, um, because that's how I teach my guys every time you use something stupid, you gotta learn from it.
Speaker 3:Don't do it again yeah, and if they laugh at you, it's kind of fun team building thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they love it. All. Right, guys, if you didn't learn something, that's on you, because I think this podcast is killing it and you know know what? I'm not the only one. The people have spoken. We're in the top 5%, alan. We are rocking and rolling. We're making it happen. People are listening. And guess what? Next year, in 2025, if you're starting to listen to this thing, we're going to be on another podcast platform. We're going to be part of a network. You guys are going to be able to hear us in other areas and work. You guys are going to be able to hear us in other areas. And you got to go check this out. Spread the word to your friends. If you didn't do that, then I hate you. All right, don't do that. I didn't hate you. Uh, you learned something from lisa shippa. Go check her out. Lisa shippa, law in alpharetta or all of georgia. You want to figure out how to do business easy? You can do it. Let's get out of here. We gotta go. Cheers everybody.
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