The Small Business Safari
Have you ever sat there and wondered "What am I doing here stuck in the concrete zoo of the corporate world?" Are you itching to get out? Chris Lalomia and his co-host Alan Wyatt traverse the jungle of entrepreneurship. Together they share their stories and help you explore the wild world of SCALING your business. With many years of owning their own small businesses, they love to give insight to the aspiring entrepreneur. So, are you ready to make the jump?
The Small Business Safari
Sales Mindset Mastery | Jacob Hicks
Sales is more than just closing a deal—it's about the mindset that drives your interactions with potential clients. In this episode, we sit down with Jacob Hicks to unpack the nuances of a successful sales mindset. We explore why understanding the value of every interaction can have a profound effect on your business growth. Jacob emphasizes the importance of being genuinely curious about your customers' pain points, enabling you to uncover hidden opportunities for additional sales.
He discusses how to maintain a customer-centric approach, focusing on value selling as you engage with clients, ensuring their needs are met beyond the immediate issue at hand. We further delve into practical strategies for consistent follow-up that not only reinforce the value you provide but also help you stay present in the minds of your clients. Jacob also highlights the importance of maintaining an abundance mindset amid the challenges faced within the sales cycle.
Are you struggling to maintain motivation during slow sales periods? This episode will resonate with you as we share insights on celebrating small wins and the role of grit in overcoming obstacles. Jacob’s process includes affirmations and visualization to reset your mindset for each client interaction, aiming to create a better experience for you and them.
Whether you're in sales or looking to improve your business relations, this episode equips you with practical tools and inspiration to shift your mindset from scarcity to abundance. Tune in, discover new insights, and prepare to approach your sales strategy with renewed passion and purpose! Don’t forget to subscribe and share your thoughts with us after listening!
From the Zoo to Wild is a book for entrepreneurs passionate about home services, looking to move away from corporate jobs. Chris Lalomia, a former executive, shares his path, discoveries, and tools to succeed as a small business owner in home improvement retail. The book provides the mindset, habits, leadership style, and customer-oriented processes necessary to succeed as a small business owner in home services.
You're saying just keep talking to them and you're going to find four pain points that might lead to more business. Exactly, is that what I'm hearing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because we're talking about the immediate issue and then the long term, right. So again, you might have come over to their home just to fix that one problem. But as you're talking to them they say, hey, in six months I'm thinking about expanding my home or renovating, and maybe that's work that you do. So you log that away in your head or in your CRM, as everybody should have, and then in three, four, five, whatever months, you reach out to them again and say hey, john, it was great to chat with you. How's the water heater doing? I know last time we talked you were talking about looking into an expansion in your home. Are you ready to have that conversation?
Speaker 3:Welcome to the Small Business Safari where I help guide you to avoid those traps, pitfalls and dangers that lurk when navigating the wild world of small business ownership. I'll share those gold nuggets of information and invite guests to help accelerate your ascent to that mountaintop of success. It's a jungle out there and I want to help you traverse through the levels of owning your own business that can get you bogged down and distract you from hitting your own personal and professional goals. So strap in Adventure Team and let's take a ride through the safari and get you to the mountaintop.
Speaker 1:Now we're on. I know we're rolling. No, we're not.
Speaker 3:We are rolling, alan, if the lady didn't tell me we're recording. I know because you know what. Our guest has preempted our lady with his own phantom. Taker ai is taking over alan I don't like it no, you're gonna have to embrace it, my friend. Embrace it today. Everybody banks trap in if you're driving around making things happen like we all need to happen every day. We're solving problems every day. I'm solving no, all right, so I can't even wrap.
Speaker 1:I'm really glad you didn't go any further with that, okay, good all right.
Speaker 3:So today we got jacob hips on and we're going to talk a lot more about sales mindset. Um, I asked jacob to talk about that um when we uh kind of were talking about doing all this, because I don't know if we all have what we need to have to do this. You know the sales mindset. How do you get yourself in that right mindset to do the sales, because that's your lifeblood, that's how you're going to grow your business, right? You're going to say, oh, I can do referrals. Oh, you know, I got customer base. Uh, no, uh, you got to be in sales. You got to be in that sales mindset. It's so hard to keep yourself in that mindset.
Speaker 1:But before we do that, alan, oh, would you like to talk about something else? I would. Does it have anything to do with you?
Speaker 3:Of course, so let me, let's go there. Oh my God, let me tell you I'm making a star out of you, Guys, if you're not listening to this podcast, if you're listening to it, man man, go out there and check me out.
Speaker 1:If they're not listening to the podcast, then they're not going to hear what you have to say.
Speaker 3:Well then you're not listening. Listen, listen now, everybody, please listen now. Lean in. You didn't take your meds today. Chrislolamiacom. Baby, we're going worldwide here soon. That podcast is getting some serious juice. Go out there and tell your friends to listen to this one. Just literally had somebody tell me check this out. You ready? Yeah, I'm ready. She says Chris. I just had a student of mine say I saw that you took a picture with Chris Laulamia in Atlanta. I didn't know, you knew him, I love his podcast. She was on his Zoom call. Like how old is this student? Well, he's trying to start his own business in athens oh okay, he goes.
Speaker 3:I love bottom line. I love what chris and alan hi I get a little mention. I get a little mention of what he brings to the table this guy's my favorite about because they've helped me figure out how to start my business.
Speaker 3:My kids have been telling me to start a business. I didn't know if I wanted to do it. I'm on this class right now because I see a niche in this area that you can help me with. So she reached out and we started talking and I said all right, we're going to get you on my podcast as well. She goes yeah, I didn't realize how big of a celebrity you are. I said well, let me tell her. Let me tell you how big I she was totally stroking you what I mean?
Speaker 1:you're so easy to manipulate.
Speaker 3:Oh, my God, don't call it catfishing.
Speaker 1:Don't call it catfishing, alan oh my God. I believe that's what that was All right.
Speaker 3:So actually I know her. She's on our podcast. It's Janet Engel. Oh, janet, yeah, but she was telling me, big of a star you are. I'm like oh, janet, please, you've been with me. I'm a big star, I'm a legend in my own mind. Everybody, you can kiss my ring now. Okay, thank you, jacob hicks. Thank you, I want to get to the next thing. So, jacob, you're from iowa. Oh, was I preventing you.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir, I am from small town go hawks, go hawks.
Speaker 3:Baby and chiefs chiefs yeah, chiefs, chiefs. No.
Speaker 1:He's got a winner team. You know what I hate that winner team Don't get me wrong. That's it, Alan we're done.
Speaker 3:You know what? That was the end of the dynasty.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me on Appreciate it.
Speaker 3:You know what? You know what? I swear all been waiting for the Lions to win, because they drive cars that were built by the Lions. They are all getting around because of the D baby, and that's right, kid Rock coming down on your town, eminem, making it happen, we're all doing it. We're going to kick the crap out of the lowly Chiefs. And no, we are not. They can cry. And so what did I do? I watched the super bowl by myself. No, I did in protest was nobody here.
Speaker 1:No, I should have had you over in my house. You know what I had? No, my buddy in texas sent me a nine pound brisket, 48 jalapeno cheddar smoked sausages. I made tam tamales pintos.
Speaker 3:All right, so I didn't advertise it because I did play golf in the morning.
Speaker 1:By yourself.
Speaker 3:No, I played with people. Okay, real people, real people, not just magic, but real people. Who watched me snap a real wedge over my real real? Did you really?
Speaker 1:break a club I did.
Speaker 3:I was so mad, alan, did you chunk or chili dip or double I I uh, that one I chunked. Yep, I chunked it because I keep buying these stock clubs off you should buy cheaper clubs, just so you, I can't.
Speaker 3:Well, that's what I just did. I bought a stock club which is an inch shorter. Uh, you can't tell this, jacob, because we're sitting. Alan is, uh, six, seven, six, eight, maybe seven, four, I don't even know. But uh, and I'm six, two, so a. You can't tell this, jacob, because we're sitting. Alan is 6'7", 6'8", maybe 7'4", I don't even know, and I'm 6'2", so a little bit of a taller guy. But my clubs are all an inch longer, right? Yeah, so I tried to get another wedge because I lost one Wink wink. It's in the pond. Wink wink. Hey, alan, we don't talk about that.
Speaker 2:I'm Italian, jacob, so I don't know if you know Italians.
Speaker 3:We don't talk about where they go, his club is sleeping with the fishes.
Speaker 3:That's probably true, but this one has been a stock club and I went for it and I had to lean down a little further. I was actually starting to get my groove back on and I just chunked the crap out of him. I'm like that's it. I back on and I just chunked the crap out of him, like that's it, I'm done. I keep trying to work with you. You're not working with me, we're done. And the. I have these three guys I play with. They're in my club, they know me. I played with two of them before and the third guy's like whoa. Did that just happen? Oh, it just happened. My friend, what hole were you on?
Speaker 3:we were on 13 okay, so you you could limp home it's, it's worse when it happens on the third hole. Yeah, hey, choke up on a nine iron jacob, that's right. All right, so go hawks. Great job. So let's talk a little bit, can we please? Yeah?
Speaker 1:yeah, I want to know what he has to say about sales all right, let's talk sales mindset.
Speaker 3:So, jacob, let's talk about how do we get in the right sales mindset.
Speaker 2:So I mean really the first. The first thing you have to bear in mind is if you are coming from value, then you aren't bothering people, because most people, particularly entrepreneurs, if they are selling, they think that they are to be bothering people if they're following up with them consistently over the next several months or years or whatever the case might be. So if you are focusing on providing value and actually serving your customer and providing quality information to them, then you aren't bothering them. That's usually the first issue that people are really struggling with. The second thing that I always recommend to people is implementing systems over the long term, so you actually know what will happen as soon as you meet somebody at a networking event and then the follow-ups from the first, you know, couple of weeks to the next few months. Then over the course of the next several years, you actually know exactly how you're going to be communicating with them and how that's going to be looking all right.
Speaker 3:So let's talk about this value selling. We talk about this one a lot, but I think for a lot of people that don't get it yet, yeah, so you have a good example. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So the best examples I've been able to give folks when you're talking about like this, this selling from value and providing follow up, is first need to come from curiosity, meaning that you are really trying to understand where this person is in their life and what they might be looking for, and be willing to tell them like hey, I don't know that my services or products necessarily make sense for you right now, and here's why. But usually in order to really close a sale, we have to identify four problems for an individual prospect and we have to generally four problems to really identify the given solutions to and to get those four problems. Usually we have to ask at least 12 questions in order to get those identified.
Speaker 1:Now, when it comes to so wait a minute, I want to unpack that a little bit, because I think most people in sales it's like you want to find their hot button or their heartburn it kind of implies one problem. Yeah, so you're saying four problems. I mean, do you you have four different categories or are you saying in any scenario there's four?
Speaker 2:I say four problems like talk about like four different pain points, like four different areas that they might be hurting or struggling or just finding difficulty in. Because when you focus only on like the heartburn, like you were just talking about, then usually as sales folks we can get a little on the short-sighted side, meaning that I know that this person is having X, y and Z problem and I have X, a, b and C solution, so I'm gonna go in and sell super hard because I know that'll get me an immediate sale. But you wanna make sure you're continuing to identify problems, to continue to provide value to that person immediately so you get that immediate sale, hopefully then also be able to provide value to them over the next several months to years.
Speaker 1:All right, I'm still not done with this. You keep going, dude, because I'm taking notes on this. So Chris is going into a customer's house, he's got a professional handyman service. He's all that customer's house. He's got a professional handyman service. He's all that, he knows he's good, and they identify a pain point and he can sell the deal right on that one. You're saying keep digging up more pain.
Speaker 2:So keep just finding things to provide value to them. So if you're like, if you're using, like your example, like you're, a handyman service, and usually, at least in my experience, people will call you because hey, you know my water heater isn't working or you know whatever the case might be, and when you're going into their home, have a conversation with them and see where their problems are, and keep talking to them and keep asking questions and keep coming from curiosity until you identify potential other options or other potential pain points. Because, as we know, when it comes to like handyman services, usually things can break, but things will generally last longer if we maintain them well, so providing that maintenance for them can be another option too. So I always say keep digging until you find multiple pain points.
Speaker 1:I love that one Keep digging You're going to make them cry if you get four pain points. I say keep digging points. I love that one, keep digging, right. You're gonna make them cry if you get four pain points.
Speaker 3:I I still keep digging. I love that I am well, here's the thing. So, hey, you brought the water heater up thing, and so that really not too many happen that way. But let's go. Drywall, or this handle's not working or this sink fixer's not working or my door.
Speaker 1:My door keeps sticking. How?
Speaker 3:about that one. Let's skip that one.
Speaker 1:A little inside baseball there.
Speaker 3:That's not fun. We're going to end this podcast in a minute.
Speaker 1:There's going to be a horse head in my bed.
Speaker 3:You know what I think Alan's going to find where that club went. All right For everybody. Yes, I replaced Alan's front door and, yes, that thing keeps sticking. It's not sticking right now. It works like a champ. All right, I had to come out there and do some final touches on it.
Speaker 3:But, going back to it, so, mr and Mrs Jones, I came out today, I'm looking at this. Yeah, I got drywall. I need to get fixed. I have two sink fixtures I want to change out in the hall bath and my kids' bathroom upstairs, and so you know the pain point. But you don't. And so you ask well, why are we doing this? Well, you know we want to change things. Okay, here's the next question why now? Right, so why is this important to you now? So back to Alan. Why is it so important to you to make sure that front door opens? Well, I found out, actually with Alan, but he doesn't know, as I did dig, because the cleaner comes in through the front door and she likes to put her big old freaking shoulder into the front door.
Speaker 1:She's a tiny littleian woman and she has to hit it like a linebacker to open the six foot four, 350.
Speaker 3:Samoan is a little. I don't know who is, but she's trying to break my front door and I'm kidding, but uh. So I knew that she couldn't get in the front door and that's a problem, because she's afraid to tell alan that there's a problem. And when she's afraid to tell alan there's a problem, then the wife has to get involved. And if the wife has to get involved, and if the wife has to get involved, who does not like conflict and does not like to talk to anybody has to say I'm so sorry that I had to let you in. Lupita or whatever her name is.
Speaker 1:Let's just call her Lupita. Judy would just use the back door for the rest of her life rather than have a conversation with you.
Speaker 3:So we did why? And then why? Now, right, that's number two. So I agree with Jacob You've got to keep digging, Ask those questions you don't know, right? I don't know what I don't know, but what I found out from Alan when I was there and I was not perturbed. I made jokes about this. Is he listening? I hear wait, Hank, was he going to turn?
Speaker 1:He's an asshole. This is live on the air no, but uh, he was right.
Speaker 3:Well, here's what I heard my cleaning lady can't come through the front door, therefore judy feels like she has to sit there and wait for her to let her in. So there is no conflict. And I heard all of that, even with you saying, well, it might clean it. Because I was like man, how often do you use your front door, dude? And I was like, uh-huh, I got it, I'm actually trying. You use your front door, dude?
Speaker 1:And I was like uh-huh, I got it. I'm actually trying to use my front door a lot. I mean, here in the South it seems like everybody goes to their garage. Yeah, of course we do, yeah, but it seems like in the South also, your garage doors break a lot and they trap you in.
Speaker 1:So I'm like trying, I've actually got a schedule to grease my rails once a quarter, yeah and hey, let's use the front door, like it's supposed to, more often. And then the cool little door that you put into the little private barbecue deck, we use that one too.
Speaker 3:So let me tell a little story about uh how I grew up. So my dad, I uh, opened the door and I closed it. And I opened the door at the car door and closed it again. And he turns around and he just screams at me. The door has so many open and closes. You decide if you're going out or if you're staying in.
Speaker 1:Sam is the man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's right, he's not listening to this podcast, even though he's been on it. But, yes, he's formed me. So, jacob, back to sales, finding those problem points, let's talk a little bit more about that.
Speaker 2:You hear those pain points. How do you react as a sales guy? How do you keep going? You want to just start cataloging these things in your head Again, going to our example of the handyman that comes over to fix the door that's getting stuck as you're chatting with somebody and you're discovering these other issues and other things. Just start cataloging these things in your head.
Speaker 1:Chris is just giving me the double birds while we keep talking about that door that sticks.
Speaker 2:Yep, that's true, but at least in my mind, if you find, let's say, three or four more immediate projects in somebody's home as you're talking to them, but they just haven't reached out to you or somebody else to fix them yet, I mean you could offer them some sort of package deal, Say, hey, you had me come over to fix this problem, but if we do all this together I can give you a better rate. But then you can also provide just again, providing value to them, not necessarily as money in your pocket, but let's say you're talking to them, Maybe they're thinking about, you know, renovating their house or adding an addition or something like that. Maybe that's not the work that you do, but you know the people in the business, right. So again, you're providing value. To say, hey, you know, I know that you're looking into, um, you know expanding your home and I know some really, really great folks that can get all that stuff done for you you're not saying we need to find four pain points on that one item.
Speaker 1:You're saying just keep talking to them and you're going to find four pain points that might lead to more business. Exactly, is that what I'm hearing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because we're talking about the immediate issue and then the long term, right. So again, you might have come over to their home just to fix that one problem. But as you're talking to them, they say, hey, in six months I'm thinking about expanding my home or renovating, and maybe that's work that you do. So you, you log that away in your head or in your CRM, as everybody should have, and then, in you know, three, four, five, whatever months, you reach out to them again and say you know, hey, john, it was great to chat with you. How's you know the water heater doing? I know last time we talked you were talking about looking into an expansion in your home. Are you ready to have that conversation?
Speaker 3:Love that point. You actually hit on one that's a big one. So you're a sales guy, you're in the house and you're talking and they say, well, here's my immediate need, and of course you solve that immediate need and you don't try to oversell because you're trying to get that one sale. You know, I know guys espoused like hey, go in there and try to give them as much as you can. I'm like, yeah, I think you got to give them the ticket and the immediate need. But you just hit a, serve that immediate need, solve it and then turn back around and say, hey, while I was there you said X, y, z. So how do you put that into your sales methodology and your sales follow-up?
Speaker 2:So when it comes to like, you have to have the systems in place, and I mean, fortunately, a lot of entrepreneurs that I have worked with or I have talked to they use, like, excel spreadsheets, which that's okay, very, very, very early on, and I say only okay, but really at some point you have to establish, you have to start building out a CRM of some sort. When I say CRM a client resource manager, customer relationship manager, whatever you want to call it and there's a there's a million of them out there anymore. And what I always recommend to folks is you know, take whatever your industry is let's say it's you know home maintenance stuff again and just do home maintenance CRM and see what comes up. And usually there's a lot of very industry specific ones out there anymore. But what that will again generally allow you to do is when you meet somebody and you go over to their house, you meet them one time to fix whatever it is that their house. Then you can jot a note to yourself.
Speaker 2:So you know, hey, when I was talking to John, we fixed this thing and he said he was talking about fixing something else or doing an expansion on his home in six months. Then you go into your CRM, you put those notes in there and then you leave yourself a note to reach out to them again. But you have to be consistent. You can't just say, hey, I went over to John's house, I fixed his sink for him and he was talking about expanding his home, and then I'm going to reach out to him again in five months because by then it's gone cold. So what you want to do is you want to have consistent follow-up and consistent contact with him, not to say like you know, hey, you know we're, you know are you ready to do your thing yet, but just providing value and saying, no, hey, here's the. I know I've done a lot of my home expansion, home renovations, and here's you know kind of my three or four tips that people really easily overlook and I want to make sure to send that over to you.
Speaker 1:It was a good email and just saying it For our listeners who aren't using a CRM. I mean, the key to me is the fact that you can idiot proof the triggers. So in this case the example you gave in six months they need to do this X, y, z. You can put in a reminder to follow up with them in six months, but, to your point, what you also need to set up is some sort of a campaign to stay in touch with them during those six months. Chris, you've got that going on right, you just switched.
Speaker 3:CRMs. We did just switch CRMs, and I will tell you that one of the things that we're lacking in this is the drip campaign that we're talking about, and that is the because. Again, 42% of our business last year, 42% of our business was for repeat customers, and so in the handyman world that's the benefit, and in any world it is. But you know again, in other areas that I know the best, which is home services. If I replace your air conditioner, I'm probably going to service it for the next 15. But I'm not going to replace it for another 15. If I painted your house, I'm lucky if I come back in three, five or seven, and so I know that we have a lot more repeat. But back to that drip campaign staying present, staying top of mind, and one of the things uh, jacob, you you kind of alluded to it, but I'll hit this one for you uh, for us, my urgency is to get your money their urgency, let's just call it like it is Did he didn't say that?
Speaker 1:No, he really didn't. He was talking about value, oh value.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I just want your money, chris Lalamia. Oh, did I paraphrase wrong, jacob? I apologize. We'll take that out of context, that's all right, I like money too.
Speaker 3:As John Ray told me edit, take that out. Oh, it's not going to happen, don't worry, we don't do that here, so it's go back in. So back to this again. I just want your money, I just want your, but our, our deal is we want to, but it's not a priority for these folks and you got to stay in front of them to make this a priority and I like how you said that, because you make that at least, at least available to them. It's an option. You're not pressuring them, you. You just tell them hey, remember when we talked before, it was this and are you still ready for that?
Speaker 2:Well, I was going to say too, I mean, your drip campaign doesn't have to be all about that one thing, like, for example, when I was in real estate. One of my favorite kind of follows is, every fall, once it starts getting colder, we would send out an email to everybody we'd worked with and say, hey, make sure to disconnect your hoses in your yard and take all the water out of them. You want to make sure they're not freezing on you, and that's a value add. That's not really selling them on anything. I mean there's tons of stuff out there.
Speaker 1:You're just staying in front of them.
Speaker 3:You're staying in front of them and you're providing value, which I think our newsletter did. You see my last newsletter.
Speaker 1:I did.
Speaker 3:Did you watch my video? Oh my God, I don't think I did Edit Alan's not here any longer Alan is with my wedge. What?
Speaker 1:All right, I normally do, I think this time I just wanted to scroll down and see how long it was. It was a rather voluminous email. It was 115 on the video.
Speaker 1:No I didn't watch the video. I just wanted to see how long the actual text was. Oh, it just kind of kept going Because it meets for everybody. We're at a 47% open. So are you more of the shotgun approach rather than the sniper? What do you say about that in sales? Just kind of just blast everything, throw spaghetti on the wall and see if anything sticks.
Speaker 3:I've got more bourbon Jacob is that a good newsletter strategy.
Speaker 2:So I mean you want to.
Speaker 2:I mean you want to be targeted and you want to at least in my opinion, when you're using your CRM you can be very targeted in your in your tagging.
Speaker 2:So I mean if you met somebody at a networking event and you talk to them about you know whatever handyman work stuff, then make a note of that and say, hey, they were talking about sync stuff and you can send them a specific, you know, sync related value driven follow up information. So I'm a big believer in, generally speaking, you can kind of just do kind of mass emails, but you also want to be as specific as you can. So like, let's say, you are doing some video work or you're writing a blog post or whatever about very specific thing, very specific issue that people are having generally, you can go back into your notes and say, oh, these you know five or 10 people when we talked last they were struggling with that. So I'm going to send them a specific email just for them and say you know, hey, I know last time we talked we were. You know you know. Hey, I know last time we talked we were. You know you were struggling with this.
Speaker 2:I just wrote this great article about it. I'd love for you to check it out.
Speaker 3:Hopefully it helps so you can be very, very targeted and general at the same time. All right, go ahead, I'm going to. I'm going to completely switch topics. So I, if you want to finish this thread, let's go.
Speaker 1:I've got a sales question Go. You talk about fearless sales, and I love that phrase because I think the best salespeople really act like they could care less if the customer buys or not. How do you have that mindset when you have to go back to Chris's office and he's going to pop your tires and slit your throat if you don't actually hit a certain closing percentage?
Speaker 3:There know there's that hypothetically, hypothetically, a Chris, let's say his name is Chris. It's a hypothetical and a Chris at the same time. So and that might have happened.
Speaker 2:So I mean it's a couple of things really. I mean this is like a more of a general kind of mindset piece is like where are you really coming from? And when I say that usually people are either coming from scarcity or they're coming from abundance. And when I say that, that means that you are either fear-driven and, like you're, you're worried about your boss, you know chewing you out, or you're worried about not making your next sale because you know you need to pay rent or whatever. But and those things can be very well be true but when you come from abundance and you choose, you have to choose to come from abundance, meaning that, yes, I want to make this sale, I want to please my boss, but if it doesn't happen, I can only control what I can control. And if it, if it doesn't happen, then I'm going to go out. And I'm going to go out tomorrow. I'm going to do it again and again and again until, like you know, close the deals great question, great answer.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna give you one, thank you. It's been a while since I've gotten one. You got one, one, one, okay, and so I'm still at zero. So I love, jacob. You hit on exactly what happens if you're going out there selling scared, if you're going out there selling like if I don't make this sale, my kids won't eat.
Speaker 1:They smell it, they feel it your kids are going to be skinny you're.
Speaker 3:You got skinny kids, and what do you want?
Speaker 1:but how do you get that mindset of abundance when you know your kids are going to be skinny? No, it's scary kids. I know I want fat kids, but my kids are skinny and how do I keep them from?
Speaker 3:so that's our uh our line that we've we've heard before is but how do you do it right? You got to ship that mindset to abundance because you know what you may not be the right fit for me as a customer for my services, because I am so good, so good that you have to have me so good, right?
Speaker 2:so, jacob, tell me how I'm so good so I mean honestly, I think you hit the nail on the head. A lot of sales people like they come from scarcity and they're, I mean, terrified they have to make their numbers or whatever the case might be. What I always recommend to folks is practice, being comfortable, getting uncomfortable, and what I mean by that is you don't have to, like you know, go out and like, let's say, you've never sold before. You don't have to go out tomorrow and do you know a hundred cold calls when you've never done it before. You're, you know, freaking terrified about it. But what if you go out tomorrow and your whole goal is to have one great conversation while you're cold calling and just going through your call cycle like that and just slowly, incrementally getting used to being uncomfortable, and eventually your comfort zone will shift and you'll become again more comfortable being uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:Like I've said a hundred times already, what I always recommend to folks, too, is find what you're good at and stick to it. So a lot of folks in particularly in the sales world, they are either like they're really good at follow-up, or they're really good at closing, or they're really good at cold calling, or whatever the case might be. Find that thing that you are really really great at and stick to it and find those small wins, and the small wins will help drive the things you're uncomfortable doing man, that's a great point, because we just talked about this.
Speaker 3:My own sales organization is that. You know, momentum builds momentum, right? Yep and uh, that's yogi birra momentum what a lot builds momentum, this podcast, especially in this moment. So, but we talk about find those small wins and uh, actually I'm going to bring that back to my guys is that, hey, what do you think you're the best at?
Speaker 1:then go, let's go win at that you're right, because when you're hot and you're on a you're on a hot closing streak, it just is so easy to get the next one and you're not worried about getting the next one because you just crushed the last four or five. How do you get that same mindset when you're 0 for 5 on your last appointments?
Speaker 2:That's the harder part. That's when grit shows up, and I mean I think maybe sales arguably may be among the top two or three industries probably where you have to have some level of grit. You just have to be willing to suck it up and continue.
Speaker 3:You just have to have that in you hey, so as a lions fan, cheese fan, by the way coming down lions. Uh, super bowl champs 2026 just about to happen. Oh, go ahead, you call it, I just called it. Um, our word of the year is grit and so, but let's go back to sales. What is grit in sales? I mean, define that for us.
Speaker 2:So I think grit well, my definition of grit, I think, is true in sales, but also true across industries and the way I define grit is just the willingness to continue, meaning that sure you're experiencing self-doubt, maybe you just started a business and you're like man, I cannot find clients. Things are sucking Like. This is not great. You continue anyway and in my experience, if you're just willing to continue while having a learning mindset, then I really don't think you can lose as long as you continue and you continue to learn.
Speaker 3:So you got to have a short memory, right. I mean, I think that's the. Uh, I've taken a couple of things away'm going to keep typing this down because I want to share it with my guys, because I think right now what's happened to us in home services is that in the winter, we're taping this one now in February of 2025. So the winter months are always slower for us in Atlanta, because in December, if you're serious about something, you get it done. In January, you're paying off credit card debts In February, it's still kind of cold here and you only live in three rooms. I don't care where you live in the entire US, from the north to the south, you only still live in three rooms. If you have four seasons coming around and so people ask me in Michigan because I'm from there originally, oh man, you must be killing it 12 months a year. I'm like, yeah, dude.
Speaker 2:I'm always killing it.
Speaker 3:But no, what happens is we get really slow and it's hard to sell. So back to the selling. Thing is that I keep yelling at these guys going hey man, you got to convert every time you're there. I'm going to use this one. Let's find the one thing you're really good at. Maybe it's the sales process, Maybe it's being there, being in front of the customer then sell better.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's your follow-up, maybe it's your preparation, maybe it's the detail you provide to them, I don't know. I love that idea. Yeah, well, I can also say, when it comes to things are struggling, you're just not getting the closings that you want. Control what you can control, which is usually going to be the amount of calls or meetings that you're setting, and then make sure that you are celebrating whatever small wins might be coming up along the way. And that can be like hey, we're not getting the closings, but hey, I made 100 cold calls today. I set five more meetings.
Speaker 2:That's a win in my book. You close no business, sure, but I still consider that a win. And you need to establish yourself as somebody who celebrates those kinds of wins. And it doesn't have to be hey, I'm going to take two weeks off and go on a vacation, but it could be hey, it's a beautiful day outside, I'm going to go on a five minute walk, or I'm going to grab a you know my favorite coffee, or you know whatever the case might be. Just some small things that will reinforce that you are doing the things you need to be doing.
Speaker 3:Not for nothing, alan, I forgot to tell you this part, but yeah, next hole birdie. Oh, you showed that club. Huh, that validated my anger and I looked at the three guys.
Speaker 1:The rest of the clubs are just quaking in the back.
Speaker 3:I looked at the other three guys. I said never underestimate angry golf forever. When people say find your zen in golf, I said angry golf always works All right. But no, that was a great, that was so fun. That was so fun, that was so fun. But did I celebrate that? Win Jacob, absolutely 1,000%. No, I was still mad because I stay angry. So let's talk about that. You know it's hard to get out of that doldrums, right, you've had an 0 for a streak and it's hard. And back to that winter. It's a cold winter, you're not seeing the sales. Your boss is on you like blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. How do you flip your mindset before you go into that sales call? Tell us how you get your head right first.
Speaker 2:So my mindset always starts, it starts right first thing in the morning with gratitude. I'm a big believer that you know. If people always say like attitude of gratitude, I think it's the opposite. I think if we, if we practice intentional gratitude, then that will lead to a better attitude. So for me personally, I have a list of I don't know several hundred different things now where every day I try to think of a new reason that I'm grateful.
Speaker 2:And in my life, particularly in the last couple of years when I been struggling or you're over or whatever, I will find reasons to be grateful for the suck Like, find reasons to be grateful for the things that are hurting or struggling or because all of that is teaching you at the end of the day. And then, when it comes to flipping the switch, like right before the sales meeting, I'm a big believer in visualization, and that doesn't have to be, again, anything crazy, but it could just be. You know, you showed up to that person's house or whatever it is, and take two minutes before you walk into their house and just visualize you going in there and crushing it and it's just a crazy great meeting. You close a bunch of business, you have a great potential business coming up, and that will I mean that ultimately lead to success too, because you're coming in, ready to go, yeah.
Speaker 1:Be grateful for the suck Chris. You know what Podcast title right there. Do you actually keep a list of things you're grateful for? It sounds like you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, for my last proper job W2 job it was a really, really bad fit job and I hated it and I was in that job for well over a year and for a majority of it I hated all like every single day, but every single day I would try to wake up and think of a new reason I was grateful for that crappy job.
Speaker 3:So, as I left my own business, or left the corporate world to start my own business, nobody ever said God, I wish I could stay here and get my W-2 and get my paycheck every other Friday. God, I wish I could stay here and get my benefits paid2 and get my paycheck every other Friday. God, I wish I could stay here and get my benefits paid for. God, I wish I could get here and get 3% on my match. They all went. Oh, chris, I wish I was you starting my own business. You're like, you know, motherfucker. You know you're not, Because I'm telling you what people ask me after four years.
Speaker 3:You know I first started the business. What do you miss? I said I missed that paycheck, bro. I missed that paycheck, I said because I was going to break even in 18 months. It only took me 36. Yay, we, oh my god. Way to go, chris. Oh, you're amazing. And it didn't happen. So you're right. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta be grateful for the suck. Um, and I'm not, by the way, I get angry at it. Uh, that's the way I solve things and that's what my therapist has told me, I can do that.
Speaker 1:Grateful is not snapping your club over your knee. That's not so, jacob.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry, but if we play golf, just know that I'm grateful that you're looking at me snapping my angry club over my angry it doesn't know if we ever do play golf.
Speaker 2:I'm I'm terrible and I think the only round of 18 I ever shot I was like 50 over, so I think you're probably okay you know what?
Speaker 3:and here's the thing if I, if everyone else is playing really bad around me or everybody else is playing really good, I just don't say it with me, care you don't care, because I'm all about what I'm doing.
Speaker 3:100 consumed with yourself I am, and I can't get out of my own way, jacob, because my mindset blows. So let's get back to mindset. So my guys go into sales calls and we talk about this. I keep telling them hey guys, when you get outside of that car, do whatever you got to do, do the power pose, get your hands in the air, but you got to flush the trash. The most important person in that world is that sales call that person you're talking to Talk about how you embrace that moment and what should we be doing? Not to overdo it, but do it.
Speaker 2:So I mean, like the visualization piece and like the power posing, I mean that can be a ton of fun just to get you in that right. You know headspace. Personally, I'm a big believer in understanding your why. Because I mean if you don't understand, like, why you're doing what you're doing, then it doesn't really matter anyway. And just saying like, hey, I want to get a big commission is not not nearly deep enough. That's what I call a soft why. We need to understand like, hey, maybe you do get a big commission, but what does that big commission do for? For you, for your family, for your life? All that kind of good stuff.
Speaker 3:I love that idea but Alan's picking on this a little bit.
Speaker 1:I'm not picking on us, I'm picking on you. Your whole existence is a soft. Why? According to Jacob, from what I just heard, no, but I know, but I'm trying to.
Speaker 3:Actually, what I was writing down was how do I take my soft why? And make theirs the hard why? How do you make me more money, mfers, so I can go back to Vegas on my private jet?
Speaker 3:Hey, let I go back to vegas on my private jet. Hey, let's get everybody not kidding. Hey, that's why you're podcast, because that's how we got here. Um, but yeah, you're right. I mean, I think you're right when you walk in and, uh allen's, we're making jokes about this. But when I get in there, the most important person in the world not my kids, not my wife, not my parents it is that customer that I'm sitting eye to eye with and making that happen. And if you sit there and buy into that and then sell from the abundance mindset, tell me you can't win. You have to win.
Speaker 2:Well and like and finding the things like I always I call it um, like my, my retreat point. So like, let's say, you go into somebody's house, you're trying to close business and you're just not getting anywhere, like, how do you still make this a win? And I think the ultimate, like the very last resort, is allowing them to um them, allowing you to contact them again and following up with them, because I mean, at least in my mind I'm, I'm kind of a salesperson that I will follow up with you until either I die or you die, and that's happened before.
Speaker 2:So I mean just finding those but finding that, that those small wins, even if you aren't closing the business right, then, and there are, I mean, critical over the longterm.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I told my guys drive for the no and uh one of my new sales guys a couple of years ago, said so, you want everybody to say no.
Speaker 3:I said no, you want to drive them to the point where they just say no because you just found out they're not ready. Why now? Why not now, right, and they just told you no, yeah, um, yeah. So I think that's powerful. You know, what's funny is uh, we've worked with some elderly people, we do a lot of aging and place work and uh, we joke and it's not funny but it's morbid, but it's gotta be funny because I'm getting older and my morbidity is getting closer is uh, is I hurry up and get that job done before they die? Yep, hurry up and get that, yes, before they die. I love that. So I. So what are some routines or some keywords you use to get yourself ready to go?
Speaker 2:Um, well, I mean, like I said, the visualization, like I said before, and really understanding where your mindset is currently. Like if you're like say like oh, for you know 20 or whatever, and you're struggling right now, like having like really playing like that, like the mental Jenga, like that mental jujitsu, and like saying like, no, I am going to get something done because I'm doing the activity to get those things right. I to get something done because I'm I'm doing the activity to get those things right. Um, I'm a big believer in in affirmations too. So, like for for me, for example, on my bathroom year, every morning, I read through my affirmations that can be just like hey, I'm, this is going to be a great day. Um, please let me, you know, bless those around me and to be blessed as well. And like finding like that kind of positivity will, I mean, galvanize you, particularly with the gratitude piece too alan, do you do that in the pot?
Speaker 3:number morning valid, because alan's a uh, I mean alan's a christ believer, he's a follower, he's a big guy. I mean, all right, so am I. But um, we talk about, is that what you do in the pot every morning? I don't want to tell you what I do there, I don't want to hear about that, but but here's the point. The point is, when you wake up every morning, you've got to reset your mindset, right? Yep, you've got to get yourself ready. I've actually just offered myself up to go talk to a Girl Scout troop. Alan, you're going to love this. You offered, or they asked. No, I offered.
Speaker 3:Okay, because the Girl Scouts. So you know, president Nary, I had the Girl Scouts come out and sell Girl Scout cookies at our local Nary event. We had 175 people there, it was an amazing event. And they came in and I told them. I came out to them and I said girls, what are we selling? They said cookies. I said okay, good, mental note, jacob. What are they selling? They said cookies Value Talk. Let's talk for a minute. They cookies value talk, let's talk for a minute. They said cookies, what can we fix them with?
Speaker 2:so tell me what I should teach the girl scout about what they're they're they're actually selling I mean, I guess I haven't sold cookies before, but I mean finding, jacob, you've never eaten girl scout cookies I've had your, I've eaten them.
Speaker 3:I haven't sold them, dude. I have not only eaten them, I have hoovered them.
Speaker 1:You don't have to sell Girl Scout cookies. I mean, I seriously, they just fly out of their little hands into my truck you open, I open one.
Speaker 3:I'm like I'm just going to have one. No, this one Samoa. And the next thing I know, the whole box is gone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Samoa is the best.
Speaker 3:And I just go to my next cookies as fast as I can. That one's a fact. Oh my God, those Girl Scout cookies go down.
Speaker 2:I'm like what are they selling though? Honestly, I mean, because I mean I assume most of these, you know, these girls are like they probably are here in Iowa where they're setting up shops, you know, like on a street corner or whatever they're doing at a Walmart or something, and as people come in and out of a store, you say, hey, you want to buy some cookies. Honestly, if it were me, I would say they are selling experience, as weird as that might sound. Because, like, really, what they want, like when, at least when I'm buying cookies, like you want to, like I feel like people just don't have the charisma to like to sell like that.
Speaker 2:But you gotta be really, really big, of a big personality, you know, say, hey, sir, you want to buy some cookies, don't you? Like? What are you doing? Come over here, you want to buy cookies. What are you doing? Like being like really big, like that and like having a lot of fun with your, your customers and telling people like, yeah, I bought cookies, but man, like these little girls were having such a great time and like it was so much fun to listen to them talk and talk about whatever they were, you know, using the money for, like I feel like that would probably be like really what they're selling so the curmudgeon alan, who's trying to watch this figure, does not like that because he does not like cute little girls who are really trying to just help themselves get better and become young, independent women.
Speaker 3:You are putting down the young independent woman. No, I just don't know. I don't know how.
Speaker 1:Yeah I don't know how much you have to put into the Girl Scout cookie sales, because they're so god dang good. They are that good, you know they're good, you know you want them. Open your freaking purse upside down and just give me all your money. That should appeal to you, chris right? I just want your money. I just want your money.
Speaker 3:I just want your money.
Speaker 1:And in exchange you get these really yummy things that are going to probably make you fat and you know, fight with self-loathing and guilt and stuff, as you shove them all into your face.
Speaker 3:And I have body dysmorphia all day long. So I do so, jacob. This has been awesome, man. I love how you talked about sales mindset, but I'm going to finish with what I learned from what he just said is that to sell Girl Scout cookies, for what I want is the most money I can possibly get Girl Scout cookies for what I want is the most money I can possibly get, because if my daughter sells the most Girl Scout cookies which, by the way, my daughter will not be selling Girl Scout cookies, she's now an adult that you got to be focused on the experience and you got to make it happen and you got to always be selling yourself.
Speaker 3:I don't care what you're doing every single day. You got to change your mindset. You can't have a bad day. You can have. Change your mindset. You can't have a bad day. You can have a bad moment, you can't have a bad day. That's impossible. You got to stop that. Actually, that's the one thing that I push in my kids. You did not have a bad day. You had a bad moment. You let the bad day happen, but you had a bad moment.
Speaker 2:You could have flipped the script Well, and usually to go off of that for a minute like the like. You had a bad moment and your reaction to it was to ruin the rest of your day. You can't control like what happened. You can only control your reaction.
Speaker 3:A hundred percent. Love that, love it.
Speaker 1:I'm saying You're the guy who snapped your nine iron over your knee. I had a bad moment, and what'd I do after that? You snapped your club and they never use it again it again.
Speaker 3:And what did I do after that? You spited it by getting a birdie on the next hole. That's right, and I loved every minute of that and I and I'll tell you what don't ever underestimate me, and spite, because that is definitely motivating.
Speaker 1:That could be your next book, spite sales all right, I'll let you know when that comes out.
Speaker 2:Jacob, that's awesome dude.
Speaker 3:You've been dropping the drums. You've been making it happen. Let's make it all happen. Stale's mindset starts with you. You've got to set it every day. Jacob how can everybody find you?
Speaker 2:So easiest is going to be through my website, jacobhickscoachcom, so feel free to drop me a note. I love to hear from folks. I'm on social media I mean Facebook, LinkedIn, TikTok, Instagram, of course and then just recently launched my own podcast, Purpose Driven Progress. You can find that on Apple and Spotify, of course. We've got a lot of good nuggets in there for you.
Speaker 3:Purpose Driven Podcast Jacob Hicks, that's Jacob with a C Hicks H-I-C-K-S. We'll put it all in the notes. Go find it out, man. Follow this kid, go check him out. I'll tell you what. All the feedback I'm getting from uh, the folks I've been hearing from who listen to our podcast, they listen, they want to check out and they come check you out and see if it's going to be a worthwhile. So go ahead, hit him up, man. He says, hey, come talk to me, let's go do it. Man, go out there and talk to him, find out what you can find out. Let's do it. Everybody else, if you're not going to hit jac up, are you really ready to change your mindset? Alan, I don't think so. Let's snap that freaking wedge.
Speaker 2:Let's make it happen, get yourself up that mountaintop.
Speaker 3:We're going to go make money. Cheers everybody.
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