The Small Business Safari
Have you ever sat there and wondered "What am I doing here stuck in the concrete zoo of the corporate world?" Are you itching to get out? Chris Lalomia and his co-host Alan Wyatt traverse the jungle of entrepreneurship. Together they share their stories and help you explore the wild world of SCALING your business. With many years of owning their own small businesses, they love to give insight to the aspiring entrepreneur. So, are you ready to make the jump?
The Small Business Safari
Building a Business that doesn't run you | Al Levi
Al Levy transformed his family's heating business into a multi-trade powerhouse spanning four generations by developing comprehensive systems, training programs, and clearly defined organizational structures.
• Building operating manuals that defined processes objectively in writing
• Creating a corresponding training center to transform willing apprentices into skilled technicians
• Implementing a merit-based pay system rather than rewarding longevity
• Early adoption of technology like two-way radios and computerization
• Developing clear roles and responsibilities using "the box chart" to prevent micromanagement
• Prioritizing supplier relationships by paying vendors first
• Using a training center to test new products before taking them to customers
• Giving employees the opportunity to try products in their own homes at a discount
• Managing family business dynamics through clear communication and defined responsibilities
• Creating true career paths rather than just jobs
Check out Al's "7 Power Contractor" book and online programs at 7powercontractor.com for more resources on building a successful home services business.
From the Zoo to Wild is a book for entrepreneurs passionate about home services, looking to move away from corporate jobs. Chris Lalomia, a former executive, shares his path, discoveries, and tools to succeed as a small business owner in home improvement retail. The book provides the mindset, habits, leadership style, and customer-oriented processes necessary to succeed as a small business owner in home services.
But we paid it off within two years because we drove callbacks down, we maximized each ticket and we always had more calls than we could humanly do. And now we had a way to get more people on the road. You know, taking these young, willing apprentice people with no skills and getting them to be willing tech. Welcome to the Small Business.
Speaker 2:Safari where I help guide you to avoid those traps, pitfalls and dangers that lurk when navigating the wild world of small business ownership. I'll share those gold nuggets of information and invite guests to help accelerate your ascent to that mountaintop of success. It's a jungle out there and I want to help you traverse through the levels of owning your own business that can get you bogged down and distract you from hitting your own personal and professional goals. So strap in Adventure Team and let's take a ride through the safari and get you to the mountaintop. Alan, we're ready for another episode. Are we ready to rock and roll? Are you ready to light it on fire?
Speaker 3:If I was a dog, I'd be wagging my tail, Atta boy.
Speaker 2:I like that. Let's wag some tails today, but I'm feeling the power. I'm feeling the power, I'm feeling the energy, I'm feeling the heat of what's about to happen today.
Speaker 3:Are you doing your dad joke? I am doing my lead in man.
Speaker 2:We got I mean we've got a home services legend, Al Levy, today with us and he is going to talk about what he did in his business and what he grew and how he's helped so many people grow their businesses through discipline. But his first business was in the business of making heat baby really it was what kind of heat? I don't know. Let's find out, shall we?
Speaker 1:let's yeah thanks, I'm going to take this back to be a little cleaner.
Speaker 3:Yes, it was heating people's homes is what I was eating and did you realize that chris was already going in the gutter with that al I mean I I I I'm really good at stepping in and helping us get back on the curb he's gonna keep you on the straight and narrow he's your accountability partner accountability coach yeah boy all right, yeah, all right, I'll shoulder up because it's gonna be a long episode. Yeah, I'll lift with your legs, not with your brother brother, I'm here, no problem.
Speaker 1:So I was born literally into a, you know, a family heat business. That was fuel oil heating and, for around the country, if you don't know, in the northeast used to heat with fuel oil instead of what basically is like propane for heating homes. And I showed up, my brothers, my two older brothers, and we were the third generation. We started out of my grandfather's gas station 1936. And when my brothers and I arrived, ultimately we moved into gas heating, plumbing, air conditioning and finally electrical. So plumbing, heating, cooling, electrical is, and here electrical. So plumbing, heating, cooling, electrical is. And here's the great news, my nephew is the fourth generation. He's there with my middle brother today.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What year did you guys go heating, heating air, electrical plumbing, what I mean? Decade.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that was really about in the early to mid nineties, and the reason why is I had joined the forerunner of Nexstar, which was C2000 at the time, met a lot of great people and what I realized at the time was that my really best competition was starting to go into different trades. And what I said to my two older brothers and my dad? I said if we don't do these trades, we're going to basically put our competition in our basement. So we have to start doing this. The good news for us is we had mastered our first trade, and the mastering of it was operating manuals that defined how we did stuff objectively in writing. And then we built a corresponding training center and training curriculum, became better trainers ourselves so that we were able to take willing apprentices with no skills to willing techs with great skills. And that's why, you know, in this competitive world, it was what allowed us to stand out with our 2,000 competitors on any given day.
Speaker 2:So when you guys were in this phase and day, so when you guys were in this phase, uh, let's just hold on for a minute. Everybody, 1990, uh, there was no such thing as internet. There was no such thing as laptops phones I mean best I mean no it was no covid and no covid I mean you think about how you were able to do that and you guys were doing that off a pretty large footprint in the early 90s.
Speaker 1:We were already $17 million in sales. So we're not a small company. We were 70 people, we were a New York City union shop and, by the way, the union provided me nothing in the way of talent. They just, whoever came in, had to join the union. So it was really up to us to train these people.
Speaker 2:So I've already got. One person's been on the podcast that we've had to put in the witness protection program.
Speaker 1:So it sounds like we're going back in again, because if we keep saying, I actually became pretty good working with it originally, that was, if you have a moment. The story is, when I stepped into the business, it was a lot of head-butting between us and the union, right, and I, as as the last brother in kids to speak, I went to the union guys and said, listen, we are wrestling towards a cliff. And I got to tell you I'm willing to go over the cliff, are you? Because if you don't want to go over the cliff, let's figure out how we make this work together. And, to their credit, they said, yeah, let's do that, and that's what really changed the momentum. They said, yeah, let's do that, and that's what really changed the momentum, because I was born into a system where they made more money the longer they stayed, yet their talents were awful, and so I changed it to you move up that ladder based on the talents and things you can demonstrate and do.
Speaker 3:That's how you make more money. Oh, a merit-based system. Whoa, whoa. That's a novel idea. I know Gold bucket everybody. How about paying on meritocracy as opposed to longevity? How long you're sitting on your butt in the chair? I know it's a brand new idea.
Speaker 1:I hope all of you were strapped in and not driving, because I'm sure that must have took you off the road.
Speaker 2:That one's like wow, never thought about that. Paying for performance.
Speaker 1:Never thought about that.
Speaker 2:You think back on how hard it was, even then, to do what you did. I mean so paper-based, not knowing where everybody was. There was no such thing as a next tell, even, which is uh those are the coolest when they first came out, didn't?
Speaker 1:you feel?
Speaker 3:so cool putting that giant thing I can top.
Speaker 1:I have a story topper to that, actually, and part of the good news is my dad, to his credit, my dad, my uncle actually found they were the second generation in the news is my dad, to his credit, my dad, my uncle, actually founded they were the second generation in the company, but my dad was always a big believer in technology.
Speaker 2:So what is?
Speaker 1:technology? Was he put in two-way radios in the trucks when all of his other people at this competition were finding pay phones? When you could find pay phones, and they actually used to tease him, what's the matter? You don't have a quarter for a phone booth, or?
Speaker 2:something.
Speaker 1:But, he knew, always investing money back into the business. We computerized way before anybody computerized in our business, and so we were always on that cutting edge in technology. And to this day, my brother and my nephew, they are always looking for what's new, what makes us more of a niche and less of a commodity, because that was really our challenge from day one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, two other great gold nuggets right being on the cutting edge of technology. You don't have to be the bleeding edge, because that's going to cost you a lot, especially home services, but being on the cutting edge and staying on top of it. In fact, I'm sending my general manager this year to Fast Remodeler, which is the technology summit for remodeling guys, because I'm going to go to the NERI conference this year instead. But you got to stay there and do that if you want to stay relevant and stay again back to a niche and not a commodity, because customer service is born out of that technology.
Speaker 1:I love for those who can't see my phone or can't see my phone. A lot of my vendors in my home are my customers. They're in my online programs here in Arizona and they're on Service Titan and I get a text telling me how soon my tech is going to be here and I can track it like an Uber. It's amazing to me. I mean, just what you can do Now. There is a limit and hopefully you guys out there hear this the right way. I think AI is coming and I think it's already here. But if you think you can just turn your company over to AI and it's all going to be right and people love the whole thing, that's like when you call up and I'll speak to AI or whatever automated thing it is for one or two questions, but by the sixth time they say to me I don't understand you. Representative.
Speaker 2:Right, isn't that you know?
Speaker 3:in fact, we're just I think he just answered his customer service.
Speaker 2:Pet peeve yeah, so in my accountability group that I meet with monthly, the CEO group facilitated by Hanks we actually got into that conversation again was a lady tried to use an hvac company here in atlanta that clearly had an ai uh front end. When she said and she's the, she's the nicest lady, but she kept going, I just go with. I just started going, representative, representative, representative. I'm like, well, you beat me, because if I had the phone back in the day I'd be beating that one and that zero so hard. I mean I'm surprised my phone didn't fall to pieces. But I agree, al, you've actually hit it on the head and that's what we surmised here AI is coming back to bleeding edge. Yes, that's great, I love that.
Speaker 1:That's what made me think about it, the way that you call the bleeding edge. That is a very appropriate and the word could not be better bleeding. We were not the first, but we were right near the first when we changed the type of heating systems we had. We tested them in our house, not your house. That's the beauty of having a training center, getting really familiar with it, and the way that we got our team to actually buy into it is that they could get this product and take it back home and try it out and if they liked it, they could keep it at a severe discount. Well, if techs touch it, let alone put it in their own homes, you don't have to teach them to sell. You have to teach them to shut up. They love it so much.
Speaker 2:That's a great point too. God man, he's killing gold nuggets. Because you give your employees the opportunity to sample your service and your product, who becomes your best proponent? Because I've got 15 technicians running around here in Atlanta and four more up in Athens, georgia, and they have to be the face of my company because I'm not there. But just think about if you could give them the service or product in their own home and then have them go out there and champion it, they would every day Brilliant. It is good I'm actually taking that one, filing that one away.
Speaker 1:It really makes a world of difference. And again, this part, you know it really wasn't originally get them trained here rather than in a customer's basement. We used to have a. We were embarrassed to say it out loud. We used to call it OTJT, which stands for on-the-job training. Oh yeah, because that's the only training most owners do, including us for a very long time, and so we realized how hit and miss it was and ultimately, what? Also really not fair, because what does it mean? I'm coming to your home to learn how to do my job Right, exactly right. Really a bad thing. So we actually built it into the sales and marketing advantage, the 10 reasons to choose us, and that was one of them.
Speaker 2:Go Alan, you wanted to say something.
Speaker 3:Jump in Well, and I just want to take the opportunity, because we don't have the opportunity to ask this question for very many of our guests. I have so many friends, al, who have a business, and they are just beside themselves because their kids don't want to be in the business and so they're faced with either someday shutting it down or, hopefully, selling it. You've got four generations in your business. What's the secret sauce to that? Just child labor. You know when they're five and they don't know any better.
Speaker 1:How did you know that I was eight years? Old and I was cleaning fittings and toilets and being a helper. By the time I was 10?.
Speaker 2:I can just see it. Hey Dad, I think I want to be an accountant. Dad, that hurt, Get back over there Tighten that wrench.
Speaker 1:It is my favorite thing that I can share in the 23 years now that I've done this is when I encounter family businesses and how it progresses through that. I base it on myself, which was my father believed that I should never ask anybody to do anything that I had not done myself, and when I was young I hated that idea. But when I got a little bit older I go oh, that's why he said that yeah, and so basically what I could say to you and I did all of the recruiting and hiring even though our company was big at the time I felt it was so important the recruiting, hiring or anything training place to get you into the program was that if I am not going up on the roof in the dead of winter, you don't have to go, but if I'm going up, you're following me or this is not the place you should be.
Speaker 2:So I started my business after being in the corporate world for a number of years and what I did was I put myself in my own truck, hired a guy and put him in a truck to learn the handyman trade, and so my training it always starts with me at the culture training now, where I don't do the rest of it. I think we do a good job almost better, better than average job. But the first thing I say is you're never gonna be asked to do anything that I didn't do. I said. That being said, I've done some crazy shit. I said so hang on.
Speaker 1:Well, I also try to very carefully as I progressed along is they're never going to be my clone. So all of you listening out there, if you think your clone is showing up, good luck. And even if that was somebody that you found is really good, try duplicating it. I've always used the expression. That's like trying to catch lightning in a bottle over and over and over again. You might get lucky once if you don't get electrocuted. But the point of it is it's impossible to repeat. So it's not scalable, and all of what we were trying to do was control the daily chaos, the stress, because we were still making a ton of money with all the mistakes, everything that was missing, because the basic family dynamic was work hard and make the results come out the way you want them to be.
Speaker 1:So I don't know if you guys have heard of Ellen Rohr oh, yeah, I've actually had her on the podcast. Yeah. So Ellen and I we met in C2000 all those years ago and then we always kept in touch. We worked together as co-consultants. Then we actually owned a franchise together with one of my former customers, zoom Drain. So yeah, we've obviously got all the circles together, but she was a really great mentor to me, as I was a mentor to her because we were talking about stuff like I didn't grow up knowing what a budget was, exposing so much from my experienced old gangster kind of thing is.
Speaker 1:Back in the 90s we bought a motor for 30 bucks, we paid you 30 bucks and we thought, well, if we sell it for 100, we got $40 of pure money. We didn't know what indirect costs were, and you know I read her book, by the way, pretty much every year and for nothing else. Her book I'm speaking to is, to this day, is still a big, big seller. Where did the money go? Just for the glossary alone, because I would ask my accountant, I'd go what does this phrase mean? And they'd give me another stupid accounting term. And so she defined these things in plain English and she really broke it down slowly. So, for those listening, rohr is spelled R-O-H-R, and I'm jumping ahead because you were asking about what book to recommend.
Speaker 2:I know you're doing good, though Jump ahead, my friend.
Speaker 1:I think there isn't anybody, even if you think you're good. Uh, ellen roars where did the money go? Is the first book to read, and her second book is how much should I charge? And that's. Those are two really seminal books that put you on a better path, and what I call financial power and talking about that podcast that we had.
Speaker 2:You go back and check it out. You can google it. Ellen Ellen Roher on the Small Business Safari man. She just brings the power and the energy and she is such a dynamo you can't help but feel better when you're done talking with her right. Wasn't that fun? Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:She is electric and, yeah, there's no. I'm very passionate about what I do, but she's the person on fire.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's great, but you said something. That's very interesting is that you know you said something. I was a mentor to her, but she was also a mentor to me. The other line is you know, iron sharpens, iron, talk a little bit about how you, as you guys, started to talk, how did you guys elevate each other? Because I think that's one of the things we were working together alone, as you guys started to talk, how did you guys elevate each other? Because I think we were working together and alone.
Speaker 1:Even we actually used to get together for a yearly conference when we weren't working together and uh, her sister ellen oh sorry, gail and uh so it's funny because my name is alan, by the way a-l-a-n.
Speaker 3:And uh the correct way yes, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Alan.
Speaker 1:Thank you, alan. So we used to call it the Age Conference, age, and we would meet every year and look at each other's business. Because the problem I had learned a long time ago is when you're in your business you can't see because the glasses are rose colored. But anytime you ever go visit and we used to go visit shops all the time it's magical how great you can see all the mistakes, anything that's really good, and that's what I did for Ellen and that's what she did for me, and Gail was able to do it for both of us. So, because you did all the back end bookkeeping- it's also being vulnerable and showing things.
Speaker 2:I'm in a monthly accountability group. Many people would know the term Vistage. This is not one, but it's a guy by a guy who was Vistage trained here in Atlanta. It's been amazing. But that is one area where getting a deep dive in the financials still haven't done that in seven years. But I will tell you. I had a chance to do it here because the National Association of the Remodeling Industry we have a local chapter here and a guy asked me hey, come look at the books. He goes hey, what do you think? I said well, I think they suck. He goes hey, do you think you can help me? I'm like well, I can, but I just don't know if I want to get involved in the committees and all that stuff. He goes no, just help me. I'm like. So I started helping him. We started working on it. He goes hey, do you want to chair the finance committee? I'm like all right.
Speaker 1:That's how they suck you. And now I'm putting him present, step by step.
Speaker 2:He was so good, mark Gailey was so good, I will tell you this. So I went yeah, these suck. And then I fixed them, and then I went back and looked at my own books.
Speaker 3:I suck. It's almost impossible to not just get numb to your own environment. I remember an example of just going up the steps of one of my stores and there was this giant weed that obviously had been growing for months. And I'd walked through those same steps and I'm like I mean I can't even see the weed on my front porch. What's going on in my business? I mean, the thing had been growing and it's. You know what I mean? It's just, yeah, you need somebody else, you need that second set of eyes.
Speaker 1:I was very lucky. I had really great industry friends like Ellen Rohr, who would tell me what I needed to hear, whether I wanted to hear it or not, and the great Dan Hollihan, who is also the connection between myself and Ellen, who is a great industry writer, helped us with the manuals. We hired him in to do it because I had tried, for I don't know, for years, to write it and every time I wrote these manuals they came out like a law book, article 1-6.35. Yeah right, no one was going to follow that and then so he also knew me very well. And when we finally knew it, this is what we had to do, because I had read the E-Myth by Michael Gerber and that really changed my life. And Ellen Rohr and Dan Hollahan said you have to stop what you're doing and read this book. And for the first time in my life I knew why things didn't work and I knew what I needed to do. But it didn't really give me the how. But you know what I'm really good at how? And between myself and my brothers and the money we spent. We spent about $150,000 in the original manuals and they're a fraction of what I have today, but we paid it off within two years because we drove callbacks down, we maximized each ticket and we always had more calls than we could humanly do.
Speaker 1:And now we had a way to get more people on the road. You know, taking these young, willing apprentice people with no skills to getting them to be willing techs with great skills. By the way, I was a hostage to my staff, which I think is bad enough, and I told my brothers and my dad that's why they allowed me to go out and do the things I did. But I actually came to work with a customer that Ellen called him up one day and said what time do you want us there? And usually contractors will say, if you let them, they'll say 5 am because they started early and I go. I'm in Arizona on Pacific time and you're in the East Coast. I'm not waking up at 1 am to come to your place. So this guy says to him, he says to Ellen, two o'clock and she goes. I'm sorry, what time did you say? He goes. Oh, I don't come into this office to two o'clock because I hate all my employees.
Speaker 2:True words have not been spoken, my friends, I mean, I love my team, I built a good culture. But that line speaks so volumes.
Speaker 1:Here's the happy ending to that story. So Ken could do all the work that we did At the end not even in the transition when things began to run smoothly because he realized you know the famous expression attributed to Confucius when you point a finger, four are still facing you. As I had to take the, I had to take the lumps because I was very busy early on blaming everybody except myself. So he did take that responsibility on, and here's the truism today he wakes up excited to go see his staff and one of his sole focuses is making their lives better. Think about how that 180 went.
Speaker 2:Wow, man, that had been a big change, because he has to see the value in it and also he also had to be ready to accept it. You know, one of the things you talk about with coaching and I know we're going to get into what Al does is that you've got to be willing to be ready to accept it. One of the things you talk about with coaching and I know we're going to get into what Al does is that you've got to be willing to be ready, and we had a great coach consultant on said. The third question is do I think he's ready? Do I think whatever I'm going to do is going to 10X him or 1X him or whatever it was? But I think you've got to be self-aware and if you're not, is somebody going to shoot you with it?
Speaker 1:And you know I've had a lot of guys who've worked with me, usually when I was doing one-to-one consulting, which I don't do anymore, but it used to be two to three years for people that wanted to run the whole can All seven powers planning, operation, staffing, sales, sales coaching, marketing finance. Ellen handled two, the financial and the sales coaching. I did the other five with them, but they would get through. Things would finally go really well. Money was coming in, that was going down, they were growing, coming to work was much more fun and invariably, like a year in or so, they would say to me I wish I had called you five years ago. I go, you weren't ready. It's the oldest one is, you know, is the teacher appears when the student is ready.
Speaker 2:And I was the same ways, you know, when I was young, like most young people, I knew everything you know, I wish some people say that, hey, if you could go back to your 17-year-old self and tell him something, I'm like I could, but that motherfucker wasn't going to listen to a word I had to say. I promise you. Because I knew everything at 17, Al.
Speaker 1:I know Coupled with that, I was not as bad as most kids, but it's amazing how much smarter my dad got when I graduated college.
Speaker 2:Yeah amen, that's a Mark Twain.
Speaker 1:I know it's originally with him, or at least it's so spot on.
Speaker 2:It is too, because we all have that A lot of adolescents, especially men, listening to this. We all have to do that. It's part of our journey to becoming, uh, entrepreneurial, but not really entrepreneurial, but just independent. We all have to. At some point, we have to reject our parents, we have to be able to say I'm not going to stay with you. I got a launch, and so the way we do it and very for many of us, very not gracefully, I thought I was pretty good, I wasn't as bad as it looked, but I definitely can tell you a story that in the backyard there was a sledgehammer thrown and there there was a compressor flipped. I can't tell you by who and by which, uh, but I will tell you.
Speaker 1:There were two guys involved. At least there wasn't any hatchet throwing before it became popular, so good that was me and my dad working together.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:And that gets all the way back to the story that I wanted to finish up on is when they you talked about the next generation, I was very happy. First of all, I had to get the family who was there to work together. So what was one of the keys? Those keys that I learned at our companies.
Speaker 1:My brother is my two older brothers and I spent of our times in the 20s micromanaging each other or duplicating what each other was doing, because we had no idea, we didn't communicate, we didn't have any meeting, we didn't have anything, and so I have to watch the time for you guys. But can I tell a quick story?
Speaker 2:You got to tell this one, because I love this, especially a three-brother story.
Speaker 1:So my brother, marty, would never worked in the field, although he went to school with me the tech school and I couldn't understand why he wasn't getting it because I was getting it. And then when, a year or two later, I was in somebody's basement at 2 am and he was home sleeping, I realized he was still the smarter brother. 2 am and he was home sleeping, I realized he was still the smarter brother. But anyway, so he's first in in the morning at like 6 am. He gets a phone call from an irate customer Somebody was here last night and now I have no heat and I come walking in at 630, heading to the service department to get things straightened out for the day, and he starts. I already see that he's yelling at the service manager who is now on the roof ready to jump.
Speaker 1:Now my first task of the day is to gently walk him off the roof. And then I'm get a phone call when I'm sitting at the dispatch desk from one of our suppliers. And I understand my dad raised my brothers and I as young teenagers that our suppliers get paid before you do, because, push comes to shove, they'll take care of you, which, by the way, was brilliant, it was told to us when we were very young. When Sandy hit Long Island, which is where our business was, guess who got? Taken care of Us To the maximum degree.
Speaker 1:I love this story us to the maximum degree including we lost 20 trucks and the leasing company came through like champs, just to name one. Anyway. So I apologize, I hang up the phone, I go tearing across to the office to rip into the accounts payable person and finally Marty and I are right in between the two offices and I said to him I said you don't like the way the service is being handled, you tell me and I'll fix it. And he goes well, if you don't like the way the bills are being paid, you tell me and I'll get it fixed. And then we both looked at each other and I go you know, this is really good. We ought to write a chart up or something that was the birth of the box, or chart we finally we finally have it it takes to fix, to run the business, and that's where everything goes in a better direction.
Speaker 1:And the point of this is for us. We had so many trucks. It was a big big deal the insurance, so marty would get three bids, richie would get insurance, so Marty would get three bids, richie would get three bids, al would get three bids. And once we realized, no wait, wait, it goes in your box, marty, you go get three bids and then come and give a proposal, explain it to us and then we'll vote on which way we go. What a dramatic reduce in not only time but tension. There was so much tension because we're all running around with our heads chopped off.
Speaker 2:How fun to watch that go down. You hit on one thing and I don't think I'm going to get him on the podcast, but I really wanted to. But he's retired and I think his appetite of coming in here and drinking with us to talk about it is gone. But we had a local supplier. These are the people I buy all my windows and doors and decking packages from During 2008,. When I started in 2008, they had been going on for 20 years. One of the things they did and they did it right was they always paid their vendors and a lot of times you have a vendor angst relationship, right, I mean so?
Speaker 1:yeah, you get it. If I don't, you know, work them over. They're going to take advantage of me. You know, and we, we finally woke up one day, and that was because of I've been to good training is I don't make. That's not how I make my money. Holding the vendor down, I actually like and prefer a primary vendor, uh, vendor that handles it. One source of accountability.
Speaker 2:So the company he was with there was two of them in the area at the time and the company he was with paid everybody, and when they had to close down they made sure to pay everybody off as they went bankrupt and the other guy left everybody else holding the bag. So now fast forward to 2010, which it sounds like forever two years, but really is not no Right.
Speaker 1:But those were rough years.
Speaker 2:They were, trust me, brother. Yeah, I don't remember them. Yeah, alan, again, that's how he lost. His business was 2008. There's no way you can get out of that one. But when they got ramped back up, you know which vendors extended credit. You know which vendors made sure that they could get people in business. Larry and his team what comes around goes around, and the other guy actually ran tail and got completely out of the business.
Speaker 1:100%, Good yeah right, it just shows you. It does show you. Yeah, right, it just shows you no-transcript. You know we should go around, we know where their trucks are and we can, you know, advertise to take this up. And he goes and reaches for the phone and he gets on. He picks up the phone and he goes sit down, you have something to learn. I'm going to put it on speaker.
Speaker 1:He calls the guy up. His name is Nate. He goes Nate, my son just told me about fires. I want you to know I'm going to service any of your customers. I will never sell any of them. I will only be talking about you. I'll do whatever you need in the way of help. And then he hangs up the phone. He looks at me, he goes. You know what? The road has many bends. I go. What does that mean? He said how would you feel if you were in that position? Things happen. Just do the right thing. So, anyway, nate, his business not to us, to somebody else. He waits for the non-compete to finish and he goes to every one of his big clients and goes. The only person you should be dealing with is irving wow, wow.
Speaker 2:See what comes around, goes around, and again we we talk about that's one of our core principles at the trusted toolbox is integrity and people say, well, you know, that's not really an integrity. I'm like it is when you teach it like we do, and that's doing the right thing. When nobody's watching. Sometimes it doesn't feel good to be at a customer's house at 2 am l and the pipe doesn't come together. Or in our case, you know doing some carpentry work maybe that trim, I could have just cocked the hell out of it and walked away and done it the wrong way. And they'll never know doing the right thing when nobody's watching. That's the one that pays off and I will tell you it paid off for me and I is. I've used that story all the time with my guys, I, I, I absolutely 100 agree.
Speaker 1:So if you're staying with this off the chart bouncing around the wall thing, here is I've also talked kids and only I always ask you know the people who are there about, do you want me to talk to the next generation? I'll have a private conversation with them and then, if they're good with it, we'll get together. And so a great company in the Midwest who has absolutely exploded in a great way he's I grew up to start this story. It was 2004. I was sitting. He had a metal building he built on purpose so that his house was in the building of his office because he knew it was the only way he could see his kids. You with me so far.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I'm sitting on the couch waiting for him to finish up with his kid. You know his kid's there at that point. One kid was maybe 10 at the time, the son. And as life will have it, work goes on. He and his wife call me up, we go. We have a problem. I go. What's the problem? He goes.
Speaker 1:My son doesn't want to go to college and we want him to have that experience. I go. Well, my brother, richie, didn't want to go to college either. My father insisted that he go at least six months to a year because he didn't want him ever to come back and go. You know what? I really should have gone to college to find out what that was like. That was the longest that he could hold. It was six months before Richie came back and said Richie could never. Richie could never come back and go.
Speaker 1:Listen, richie was born with a wrench in his crib. He knew what he wanted to do. He's 70 something years old and he's up in an addicts and people go. Why? I said because he loves it. And so they asked me will he ever retire? I go, yeah, feet first. Maybe that's about it.
Speaker 1:But the point of this thing is I said to this kid. I said your parents, who are here, want me to talk to you about this business. And they agreed to the following You're going to start at the bottom, not at the top. You're going to do like what my dad told me when I came in. He said I owe you an opportunity, not a guarantee, and you're going to work at the bottom and don't come to me complaining about who you're working for, because they're totally empowered to be your boss. And if you can put up with that, and then you will earn your way up, you'll have everyone's respect. But that's the deal. Otherwise, go wherever you want. By the way, the good story here within two years he was the best tech their kid. How about?
Speaker 2:that, Al, we're coming towards the end. I want to talk a little bit about you. Don't do one-to-one coaching anymore, but you do help people. And we've talked a lot about nostalgia, but what's funny is that in the nostalgia I still find these are the same problems.
Speaker 1:Oh same problems.
Speaker 2:Again is that in the nostalgia I still find these are the same problems. Oh, same problem. You know. Again it's not any different. It's been the same problem. You had the same problem in the 90s we have today. You can't find good texts, you don't know how to get them going. All this stuff. Tell me what you're doing now. How are you giving back to the community?
Speaker 1:So I do have a book and the book that I wrote is was purposely I 120 pages because my editor. When I spoke to her I said I've been doing podcasts, writing for trade magazines for years. I've got tons of content. She goes. Well, what do you need me for? I go. There's a thousand of my kids sitting in the audience telling me to pick me, pick me. I said that it would look like a ransom note, not a book. So this book is made to be read in two to four hours for any of you contractors out there. I'm dyslexic so I can still read it. The point of it is to read it over and over again and use the yellow highlighter. It is inaudible because this voice is golden, obviously.
Speaker 2:So if you prefer to drive around and hear it, yeah, it's on Audible.
Speaker 1:It's ebook, the rest of it. That's the first way to start. It's really good. You'll get a great foundation, or what I call the platform, to take control of your business today. But scale it and there are companies right now using all of these principles, from 1 million to 250 million, and in this PE wave I've had a ton of companies who have been bought out for PE money, for big money, generational money, and they're built on these platforms. So what I do today.
Speaker 1:There's two programs I have online called Signature Operating Manual System, and that is the org chart that I had. Famous org chart I described, but it's how do you cover those boxes with a manual that covers 80% of the time? I have that already for you, especially if you're in the contracting trade, and so that's really where you start to take control. The second program is called Signature Staffing, which is all about the five steps of staffing Always recruiting, always hiring, always orienting, always training. And the last one we all miss because we think they're on the team is always retaining. Fifth step, and if you do a great job in the first four and you offer what we did because I had read a book about the employer of choice years ago and I said to my brothers if we can provide a career, not just the job, we win. And that is exactly what we set off to do. The kids quote unquote that I trained all those years ago all made it to the very top of the org chart.
Speaker 2:That's great. What a great testament. That's a lot of fun. Again, everybody, we're going to put this in the show notes. But, Al, do you want to give us a shout out on what those two books are? We can go look them up.
Speaker 1:The two books that that you wrote. The one book I have is the 7 Power Contractor.
Speaker 1:The 7 Power Contractor yeah, and if you go to my website, the number 7powercontractorcom, go to the products page and you'll see. You know the two programs I'm talking about. You can tour it. It's all there and that's pretty good. But also I have a ton of blogs there On purpose. There's a ton of education there and, like you guys are saying, I know you would like it wrapped up in a prettier bow and you thinking there's got to be something that's brand new, that's better. And it's not because of my ego or conceit, it's solid and it's proved and it's proving now, right this minute. Yeah, I agree, working with companies from Arizona, from sorry Australia, new Zealand, canada, united States and UK, because the programs are online.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's amazing. No, that's good stuff, guys. I've been out to the website, I've checked it all out. That's why I was excited to get Al on the podcast talk about all this stuff and I mean I love the stories and the history and I just I just I mean that's where I think it really comes in. You guys all know that I'm a big fan of history not as big of a fan of world war ii history as alan, but we are still big fans of a certain age where that becomes interesting yeah, I like other history I like I guess
Speaker 2:okay, you're gonna move on now.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's move on.
Speaker 2:All right, hey, let's finish this thing up, let's talk about it. I want to talk about the famous four questions. Well, he's already answered two, so I know we're down. So we already got the books right. Go check out Ellen Ward's book. Got the customer service. Go check out the seven power contractor Again another great book and his customer service is was the AI.
Speaker 1:Thing yeah, I will. You can't have, you can't escape the AI that you put in that you think can automate your business and you never have to have a human involved.
Speaker 2:Well, good then we can get to the my fun, my fun, most famed. What's the favorite feature of your home?
Speaker 1:well, I'm prejudiced Heating and cooling Because he's in.
Speaker 2:Arizona.
Speaker 1:I always like to eat and cooling, to say the least. But cooling out here is not a nice thing, it's a life and death thing. I've got two systems in here because one night one of them rolled over and there was only four years old, but stuff happens right and so we were able to trudge on to the other side of the house and stay cool for all night. Of them rolled over, and there there was only four years old, but stuff happens right, and so, uh, we were able to trudge on to the other side of the house and stay cool for all night power is expensive out there I, you know, I came from new york where power wasn't expensive it was
Speaker 3:a little bit expensive exactly right.
Speaker 2:You know that's uh. I talk about this all the time as a handyman, a remodeler. We don't have a need-based business. So when we're in somebody's house, you don't need to have that door changed out, you don't need to have your siding changed out. It's just why now, but when your air conditioning is out in Arizona in July, that's a need.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and if you're in Minnesota in the winter, heating is also not a nice thing, it's an essential thing.
Speaker 2:It's an essential thing. I mean you want to stay alive.
Speaker 1:The demand business is and, like Tommy, the garage door business that most people know, A1 Garage is. If the door is not going up or it's not coming down or it's halfway in the middle, that's a problem, because you've got a wedding to go to.
Speaker 2:It still makes me laugh when that, when he he did, I got a chance to talk with Tommy as well and I want to get him on the pod too. I'll maybe throw it a throw a little bone over there to him to get him on. But he said it's a need. You know we were talking offline and I'm like, well, can't, don't, doesn't everybody know you can just pull the handle and pull the damn thing.
Speaker 1:No, they don't, they're trapped. And if they did? If they did, they probably would hatchet something and the door coming down died it down.
Speaker 2:So yeah, user error that's just, oh my god, it was crazy. All right, al, you've been around the trades, but I love a good diy nightmare story. I, uh, it's got to be you. Uh, I have plenty of myself. I've done a lot of dumb shit in my life, but I want to hear a good DIY nightmare story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you know we're used to the duct tape will fix everything. So there was a problem with one of the key things for analysis here is when my team couldn't find the problem. My brother and I knew it was either up in an attic where they didn't want to spend time, or they went downstairs in the basement or crawl space where they didn't want to spend any time. So I was trying to figure out why they couldn't get air. Couldn't get air, and I'm crawling along the crawl space with a flashlight in my mouth and I come to a section that's this big apart. It's not that big apart. It's supposed to be duck work. But he didn't decide the duck work, so he took a cardboard box. He just cut the two ends of it into this giant. I don't know if I'm describing it. Picture it again the duck work is round.
Speaker 1:And then there's a cardboard box trying to gap this whole thing that he thought. Of course, he never mentioned that to me and he also never told anybody else that this is what he had done, but that was one of my favorite diy stories, so that the duct tape.
Speaker 3:The duct tape sealed all the gaps, didn't it? Duct tape should work like a champ and cardboard boxes that are square rectangle.
Speaker 1:For a man like that, no problem with stalling out the air yeah, it didn't.
Speaker 2:It didn't capture everything, make a vacuum yeah, no, not a great job I love it.
Speaker 1:That's awesome and also when it gets wet. You know it's another, another thing, but that was, that was uh, and the reason. I think it was the location, because if you see what I'm doing, I'm crawling on my hands and knees with a flashlight in my mouth and they're trying to figure out why has everybody missed this? And I, I finally realized, yeah, that's why they missed it that's awesome.
Speaker 2:al. This has been great man. We thank you so much for coming on and sharing your wealth of knowledge and a great career and everything you've done in your history, and I really appreciate it. It's been a great episode. If you guys didn't learn something, man, that's on's on you, get in your truck, go back, relisten to this thing, go back and check these episodes back out with Ellen Rohr. You've got to go back and relisten to this one man, because there's gold nuggets all over the place. You can implement those today. Get them going, make it happen. Get up that mountain. Let's go get successful.
Speaker 3:We've got to go. Cheers everybody.
Speaker 2:Cheers. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Small Business Safari. Remember to keep that positive attitude, which will reflect in a higher altitude as you're out there making it happen in the wild world of small business ownership. Until next time, go make it a great day. Adventure team.
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