The Small Business Safari
Have you ever sat there and wondered "What am I doing here stuck in the concrete zoo of the corporate world?" Are you itching to get out? Chris Lalomia and his co-host Alan Wyatt traverse the jungle of entrepreneurship. Together they share their stories and help you explore the wild world of SCALING your business. With many years of owning their own small businesses, they love to give insight to the aspiring entrepreneur. So, are you ready to make the jump?
The Small Business Safari
When Your Life's Worst Mistake Becomes Your Greatest Mission | Kit Cummings
What happens when a fallen preacher finds redemption behind prison walls? Kit Cummings shares his extraordinary journey from respected church leader to rock bottom, and how this painful path ultimately led him to discover his true calling.
With unflinching honesty, Kit reveals how the pressures of leading a 5,000-member congregation led to personal struggles that cost him everything. After a life-changing car accident that should have resulted in jail time but ended with what he calls "an angel in a cop uniform," Kit began a journey toward sobriety. His redemption story took an unexpected turn when he reconnected with a former mentee facing gang-related murder charges, opening the door to what would become his life's mission.
Through powerful storytelling, Kit takes us inside some of the world's most dangerous prisons, where he's created peace movements that have dramatically reduced violence. With vulnerability as his superpower, Kit has earned the respect of hardened gang leaders by approaching them not as broken souls needing salvation, but as teachers who helped him rediscover the principles of respect, integrity, and loyalty he had lost along the way.
The conversation expands beyond prison walls to Kit's work with youth through his "Protect the Dream" program, helping young people develop aspirations powerful enough to overcome negative influences. His insights about dream protection apply equally to business owners and anyone striving to maintain focus on their goals while navigating life's challenges.
This episode delivers profound lessons about redemption, purpose, and how our greatest failures can become the foundation for our most meaningful work. Kit's journey proves that transformation is possible in the most unlikely places, and that sometimes we find our truest calling only after losing everything we thought defined us.
#protectthedream#powerofpeace#kitcummings#respect#loyalty#integrity#prisons#gangsters#love
From the Zoo to Wild is a book for entrepreneurs passionate about home services, looking to move away from corporate jobs. Chris Lalomia, a former executive, shares his path, discoveries, and tools to succeed as a small business owner in home improvement retail. The book provides the mindset, habits, leadership style, and customer-oriented processes necessary to succeed as a small business owner in home services.
don't think there haven't been tests. I mean, I got trapped in a van in Tijuana that I thought was a taxi and it wasn't. It was coyotes hustlers that could have sold me. I had to talk my way out of that van. I credit all those brothers behind the wire. I'd spent so much time with them that I knew how to talk to somebody and reason with them like here's why you can't let me go.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Small Business Safari where I help guide you to avoid those traps, pitfalls and dangers that lurk when navigating the wild world of small business ownership. I'll share those gold nuggets of information and invite guests to help accelerate your ascent to that mountaintop of success. It's a jungle out there and I want to help you traverse through the levels of owning your own business that can get you bogged down and distract you from hitting your own personal and professional goals. So strap in adventure team and let's take a ride through the safari and get you to the mountaintop. That's right, everybody. It's time. Roll up those windows, get that drive on. Keep your eyes on the road, though man. Don't be looking down and trying to figure out a fast-forward to the podcast. Don't be figuring out other stuff.
Speaker 3:Are you talking to yourself?
Speaker 2:Don't be trying to multitask. Look at Instagram, facebook and listen to our podcast. Do not put your knee on the wheel and then lean over and start writing on the other side of the door while you're doing all that too. Don't do any of that. Don't be like chris. Don't do as I do, do as I say, especially in this great city of atlanta, where there is nothing but the t word traffic. That is everywhere, brother.
Speaker 3:Oh my lord, it has been so badly and it's not just slow, it's predatory, it's, it's horrible, and if you're looking like mad max, fury road yep, 100 it is is eat or be eaten.
Speaker 2:I saw a hubcap come flying across six lanes of 285 and not one person swerved and it hit one and just burst into a million pieces. I'm like, well, at least it was plastic. So you got that going for you. And a little bit, a little bit later you keep driving, you keep driving and then you see that when you don't you ever laugh, when you look in the interior on the median and you see like a bumper and then another bumper and then another bumper, you're like, oh, that was a bad one, yeah and nobody came by to pick up the bumpers?
Speaker 2:huh, not yet. Nah, why too much work, oh boy. So let's talk about the curses of humanity and how bad people can be I.
Speaker 3:I don't like how you're doing this one. No, I could just tell you right now. I knew this.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, Because that's the worst I've ever been in is traffic court. Literally the worst thing I've ever been in in my life when it comes to the prison system is traffic court.
Speaker 3:I'd say you consider yourself lucky, huh, Chris.
Speaker 2:I consider myself very lucky that I've never had to see the inside of a real courtroom in a real setting, other than being a juror, and I definitely have not been inside a prison, even though I did grow up in a prison city in michigan, jackson. We were the prison city and every time we'd show up we'd be like, oh, it's those guys from the prison city, so you had a reputation that you didn't deserve I don't.
Speaker 2:I try to live up to it, though I tried. I mean, if you watched me play basketball, it was a full contact sport for me, man. But today we've got somebody that Alan and I are really excited to have a chance to interview and talk with you guys. It's a little bit different than what we normally talk about, but it is going to tie back into business lessons, but we're going to get a whole lot of life lessons and about how giving back and making things right with people is. This is going to be fun.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know normally how we kind of have fun with the fact that all of our guests are better looking, they have better hair, they've made better decisions, they make more money, and then once in a while we feel extra bad because you take all those things the hair, the money, the decisions and then they give back to their community a little bit in one way or another, or their book was a bestseller and today we've got all of that Plus. I mean there's just a nobility to what this guy has done that I'm thankful there's people like him on this planet. I couldn't do what he's doing, nope, and uh, you know it's an honor to have you here yep.
Speaker 2:So who is he? He is kit cummings. He is the founder of power of peace project popp bold mission to bring hope, healing and transformation to some of the most dangerous and divided spaces in the world. Uh, kit is not just uh, going to tell us about what he's done, how he started, but he's actually another thing that here is kind of odd, kind of a unicorn. He's a native to Atlanta, born and raised in Marietta, or, as people like to say, as I found out, mayretta, mayretta. There's no I in it. So, kit, welcome to the show. Man Can't wait to talk to you a little bit more.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Thank you, guys for having me I've been looking forward to it and congratulations on the success of your podcast. I'm honored to be here.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's awesome. The honor's ours man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so let's go back. So you graduated from high school. You said I did a little time in college. Graduated from Georgia. Go dogs. Yes, sir, Two-time national champions. I like that. We're still holding on to that because it was two in a row, but don't worry. So you got out and then what was your calling? What was your mission? What did you go off and start off doing?
Speaker 1:Man, I have no clue. I just didn't want to get out of Georgia. I mean, there was no reason to want to leave. Have you guys been in Athens before?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I had two kids, that no.
Speaker 1:I was that guy. I'll tell you the day and age. It was way before Hope Scholarship days. I got into the Terry School of Business with a 2.9. And that is a fact. It was like my son had to go to Georgia State. First he had a 4.something I didn't even know there was over 4. Now you got all these freaking kids brilliant. But anyway he had to take a minute just because of the hope. So I was back in those days in Georgia but I still got that diploma and it's still Georgia Back in the day we got hated on. But anyway I took my time going through Athens and I got out and got into the music business.
Speaker 1:You know, I mean just because I had a friend whose dad was like a big wig in those days and so I was like in rock and roll for a minute and then I just had a huge change in my life. I always tell people I say, like you know what's your story? I'm the wildest guy ever to become a preacher. So it's like nobody saw that coming. Nobody saw me coming up like that young man's cut out for ministry I. So it's like nobody saw that coming. Nobody saw me coming up like that young man's cut out for ministry. I was the other guy and just wild.
Speaker 1:I mean, I come from an honest, you know my family line. This is what it is thirsty and you know, just went through a lot of drama growing up. I was a good athlete and popular, you know. School came pretty easy for me. I was a good part of town, but I still found trouble. Just a knucklehead and um, and so, you know, by the time I got out of college I was, I was ready to roll, but at 25 I just was out of gas, and so that's when I had my first major kind of life-changing moment so let's talk about that life-changing moment Not what it was, but the trigger.
Speaker 2:And then what set you on that path to become a minister, and how did you even know how to become a minister?
Speaker 3:You don't want to know what the life-changing moment was. I mean, come on you did a dramatic pause. That's where you go to commercial, all right, and then you come back.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm not really sure I'm ready for that yet, man, because I know where you've been preaching and I know what you've seen and I'm like, oh my God, I'm worried.
Speaker 1:You can't handle the truth I can't handle it.
Speaker 2:You're right, I'm weak. All right, go ahead, hit me what happened.
Speaker 1:No living had caught up with me and I was trying to quit as a young man and I was a couple months in trying to get sober and I met a guy who changed my life. I was playing basketball, which is one of my things, and one of the guys on the court he just had a shine about him. He was different and he wasn't religious. He was just different to the point where I was like I went to him after one of the games and I said what is your deal, man? He's like what's up? And I said what do you do? He said I'm a minister and I was like I've never seen one like you, but I'd never been in many churches.
Speaker 1:I wasn't that guy and I started hanging out with him and I just changed me and he put me on a stage just at a regular worship service it's not like I was paid to be there or anything and he gave me a part and I got up and it was a pretty large audience and something happened inside of me, something turned on and I was like man, I don't know what that was, but I want to do that again. And everybody in the audience was like I'd like for him to do that again, and so it was just a magical moment, and that was 1990, you'd never done any public speaking before that, nope, I didn't even like it.
Speaker 1:I mean, I didn't. I was, you know, like everybody. It's like one of the second greatest fears or the first.
Speaker 1:It's ahead of dying, I think, and I was like everybody else, but I don't know. Magic happened and I sat down and said man, I want to do this. And, um, one thing led to another and I did that. The way that I did everything else in my life good, bad, whatever I got one speed and it's all out. So I'm either trying to save the world or tear it up is one of the others. So I went that way and it turned out I had a gift and I didn't know I had it. It was hiding and it came out. And then I rode that ride for 15 years and led some large churches. By the time I was in my mid thirties, I was co-leading a church of about 5,000 people. It was heavy, and then that kind of led me toward the next dramatic change Pause, pause commercial.
Speaker 2:Commercial time. No, I got to go back. So I think one of the things that's very common and we've heard this quite a bit is that sometimes we talk to people who've started their own business and they didn't pick their business intentionally. The business picked them, whether it be a mentor that said, no, you just need to go do this, or, hey, you're laid off. Now you better go find something. And they found something through franchising.
Speaker 2:And in your case, you saw somebody who was different and you saw enough in that person to actually reach out to him and he saw enough in you to help mentor people and he gave back. He actually gave back and said, look, follow this and see if this is going to be your way. And, by the way, I'm going to, I'm going to put you up there and make it happen. And next thing, you know it happened, the spark happened. So that's I think that's a great lesson for a lot of us is that when you get to these positions where we're doing the podcast, why are we doing it? And we talked about this to people and I'm like I wish I would have had this when I started my business, because I didn't know who to talk to. Yeah, I was trying to network, quote unquote. But you know what, if I would have had this podcast and I would have been able to drive around and just listen to a few things go oh man, don't make that stupid mistake.
Speaker 3:Well, it's interesting. He had to take the step, though. He had to take the step. He saw something in this guy and he went and asked him what his deal was, and then the guy ends up giving him an opportunity to be on stage and instead of saying no, he said I'll do it. So you have to have the guts to just take that leap, ask the right questions.
Speaker 1:so there's a little something in you that you know is pushing you in the right direction. It's a common theme. I'm glad you said that because I'm a yes guy. I mean to a fault I was that guy. I mean, growing up I was the kid. It's like somebody said I bet you wouldn't do that. I said, watch me do this and I just I will take advantage of every moment and I'll do the crazy thing. And that did not serve me very well for a long time and then it did, because now it's a way of life.
Speaker 3:It's like, yeah, let me do that. Yeah, because some of the things on your bio I'm like I wouldn't say yes to that, I know.
Speaker 2:Oh no, there's. Yeah, we haven't gotten that one. So back to our next dramatic pause coming out of commercial break. But we've got a lot of commercials on this show, we're going to have one. So next dramatic pause, you're leading a church 5,000. Like you said, you said something that was very key is that it's very heavy. The weight of the flock is on you, right, and then having to do all the things you had to do, plus be that great preacher and be somebody that people looked up to and wanted to come here, it gets heavy.
Speaker 1:It does. You live in a fishbowl where everywhere you go it's like they're watching. You know I'm saying you're on stage. Um, a reputation you know perhaps you can't live up to. You know, preachers are put on a pedestal and it's just people, yeah, flawed, broken people. In this particular preacher, a wounded healer, right, I mean, because I'm the guy that was broken and then came to faith. I didn't grow up that way and so, you know, unfortunately, kind of the old me, they kind of came back and so over those last years of ministry married two beautiful kids, you know, adoring congregation, great reputation. Behind the I was slipping, the drinking came back, I just started slipping and that kind of drew me away from some of the brothers I was very close to. Because in that line of work, if you're in the spotlight, leading a lot of people, got a big staff, you better have some brothers close to you. That know you know you. You know what I'm saying, because we're just men.
Speaker 3:And we're a decision away from doing something stupid. And um, I didn't. It's like we talk about in business.
Speaker 1:You got to have that board of directors and somebody will tell you no, yes, yes, yes yes, and you see that a lot in this particular field. You see someone get to that prominent place and then it's a cautionary tale, you know, because they didn't have anybody's life and and I kind of got to that point and I lost my heart and I walked away from it. They didn't ask me to leave, they asked me to stay. When I said I ain't got it anymore, I got to go and so I resigned, walked away and I just shoot that nature from the past that I thought was washed away, that joke I've been doing, doing pushups in the parking lot.
Speaker 2:Did you feel like you were running that double life? You know you the imposter, you know you got up there on a Sunday and you you give this thing and people are like, oh, oh, pastor Cummings, that was just amazing. And then you go hide away and go. You have no idea how bad I am right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it was definitely that. It was a struggle, meaning I was in the battle. I never just said bump it and gave up and became the double life guy. It wasn't that, it was just slipping at night having a couple of glasses of wine and then bigger glasses and then stupid rules that alcoholics do Like not every day. So I wouldn't drink on Sunday no more than two. Two. So I just get bigger and bigger glasses.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:It's like get a box wine so that your spouse can't tell how much you're drinking. You know what I'm saying? This is that whole ask me anything part, yeah and uh, and just playing those exhausting games. And so it wasn't like I was out at a hotel the night before, you know, no, I was home, but I but I was just wounding my conscience and my soul. And then I was pointed out.
Speaker 1:Man, I was always preaching passionately, authentically.
Speaker 1:I wasn't playing a game, but I was just hurting inside and nobody really knew it and my marriage was on the rocks and I thought it was better than it was. When you're in that kind of role, you're insulated because you've got elders and deacons and staff and you know what I'm saying fellow preachers and things, and people come to you to find out about marriage you know what I'm saying or about raising kids, and it was just it had grown cold and so when I stepped out of the ministry and I didn't have that support around me, I just flames and just went off and ended up going through a divorce. My fall from grace was public and um, which was very, very hard for me, and a lot of people know me in this town even if I hadn't been in a public position for all those years. I know a lot of people anyway, and so then it was like talk of the town. You know at least people that knew me. Man, you're my kid, you know crashing cars and hanging out strip joints, it was like that.
Speaker 2:so so it was definitely the fall from grace, the angel fall from grace. And then you said in the public fashion um you that that struggle. You said how old were your kids at that point? Six and nine what was hurting worse the kids or the public persona, what you thought people were thinking about you? What, which of those two was worse?
Speaker 1:I, I don't know man, I was really connected to my kids. I wasn't absent, but you know, the wounds would show up later with the kids, which is often the case with divorce and also with your being a preacher's kid. You've heard of that before PKs. There's a, you know.
Speaker 2:I might know one.
Speaker 1:Alan. There we go All his life. His dad was a preacher and there's a pressure that comes with that, right yep, and everybody's trying oh, you're supposed to be something, and a lot of times you go the other way. Yep, um. So anyway, I think that that's probably the answer to that question. But, um, luckily it was.
Speaker 1:It was a year, it was 2004, and it was a reckless year, man, I mean. I mean I shook my fist at God and I cursed him and I said I don't want nothing to do with you anymore. This is what I get after all this. And I was mad at everybody but me, but really I was mad at me. But I swore him off and I said leave me alone.
Speaker 1:And I went on a run and I mean I'm talking about dark, reckless, like serial drunk driver just out there on the streets. I mean hurting so bad and just trying to stop the pain. I'm really getting to the point where I don't know if I even want to be here anymore like that, after I had had it all. You know, I mean, what do you do when you, when you realize your dreams? You know what I'm saying and you're doing what you were put on. I knew I was doing what I was born to do and I squandered it. And so I think all that shame just caved in on me and I just tried to numb it and I got to the point where I was just hopeless and when you look back and I know obviously this story's got another arc to it.
Speaker 3:It's coming, yeah. Yeah, you hit bottom and bounced up, but if you could go back and talk to yourself when you were in that position, could you have talked yourself out of this before you? I mean, you know what. What could you have done differently? Or did you need to go through this to get to where you are now? Gosh?
Speaker 1:I mean great question, because if I went back and had that talk with myself and it's like just just be honest to you know, just be real when you're hurting, find somebody, talk to somebody, go get. Just be honest to you know, just be real when you're hurting, find somebody, talk to somebody, go get the help you need, whatever it is Um, but then my story wouldn't be what it is. I mean, if I, if you don't go through what you got to go through, there's no way I'm doing what I'm doing today, which I can't. I love it so much I'll die for it. Like you got to kill me to stop me from doing what I'm doing. There is no plan b, there's no way to get me there without all the drama that makes sense?
Speaker 2:yeah, it does, you know. I think, uh, that's another great business lesson for a lot of us. Um, where do you learn the most your failures? Yeah, we know, we've learned a lot, we, we are so smart, we. You know what the reason we started this podcast, alan? Because, guys, we are the smartest listen. You've listened. Go back and listen to some of these podcasts.
Speaker 2:I have failed spectacularly in many different ways, and Alan has as well, and he knows that. But failing like you did there, and I asked that question the public pressure or the kids and you kind of didn't answer but it sounds like it was you. The biggest part was it was all pressure and that's one of the things I know. You do a lot of coaching with kids, but you remember that from sports and that is, pressure comes from within, not from outside. You let outside pressure, but you all internalize it and it becomes your pressure and you got to be able to release that, get that out there so you can do your thing. So that pressure pushed you in to this. So now, what, when? What was this next defining moment that moved you?
Speaker 3:up. Well, and it is. I mean, it's a forged by fire story. I'm excited to hear the rest of it. But when you were talking about earlier, even just when you became it's interesting how preachers are held to a higher standard and you came from kind of a wild youth and yet if you didn't have that wild youth, you wouldn't be able to connect with people that you're preaching to. That's so true, to connect with people that you're preaching to, and they know that piece and so they respect you for it. But now they're holding you to this higher standard. It's kind of an interesting.
Speaker 1:It's an interesting lens and I think I was already set up for that. The adult child of an alcoholic already feels uncomfortable in their own skin, already has that imposter syndrome going on. It's like if people only knew I mean, that was way before I ever got to the stage. You know I had that going on's like if people only knew, I mean that was way before I ever got to the stage. You know I had that going on. So then I just confirmed it all you know, when I fell. It's like all right and so all right. Well, what's wrong with you now all?
Speaker 3:right the the crashed yeah, literally.
Speaker 1:so I'm, oh, I'm, I'm in a club and I got to the point where I don't care if anybody recognized me anymore and, um yeah, I'm down certain part of Atlanta.
Speaker 3:I'm picturing bad Santa.
Speaker 2:Oh, definitely bad. Santa man, you've ever watched that movie? No, I. And he says a certain part of Atlanta and I think I, I think I can picture, I know I can picture that place.
Speaker 1:Don't get off of it I.
Speaker 3:Don't get off of it. I know that road For your listeners in Portland.
Speaker 2:Portland doesn't know this one. Tasmania doesn't know this. Do you, troy? No, you don't. All right.
Speaker 1:So, anyway, I come staggering out of that place at 2.30 in the morning because the lights came on and you had to leave and I poured myself into my car and I stayed heading up Beaufort Highway, heading towards Suwannee where we lived at the time. This would be the last night I ever stayed in my house and, um, I just didn't quite make it. I got a mile away and then I just passed out and car kind of swerved to the right, boom, hit this like embankment with a guardrail, which if it wasn't there I'm not here, bro. I mean, it's like I literally passed out at just the right time. If it was a second later I'm probably done.
Speaker 1:And so I'm busted up a little bit and I'm on the road. It's 3 o'clock in the morning and I'm confused and a cop car pulls up and I'm like, oh no, I don't remember it much. Well, he takes my license and then he does this I've never heard of this before. He goes and he doesn't cuff me and he puts me in the front seat of the squad car. Like I've been in police cars before, I didn't know there was a front seat.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, and I'm not cuffed up and I pass out in the front seat right by the computer. It's like I don't know if they had them back then, but it's been a minute. And then we drive away and the next thing I know, this cop's gently waking me up and I'm at my house and he lets me go. He doesn't even write me a ticket, calls a tow truck for my car. Next day I get a call we got your car. I don't know what happened. So I mean I preach this now A lot of times- like in prisons, like there's an angel in a cop uniform.
Speaker 1:Even more. I'm like I met the devil in a Strip Club and an angel drove me home that night Because something was said that night. Somebody looked at me and said something to me. It shook me and so that was the beginning of my awakening. Like bro, straighten up, or this ain't going to end well, you about to run out of grace here. And I went and got some help, got sober in 2005. And then the dramatic.
Speaker 1:I prayed a prayer. Prayer made a promise that changed my life, and Whoever people pray to, whatever you believe your faith, tradition or whoever believe you created all this. I was talking to that, that creator, and I said, if you ever let me preach the word again, I'll go to the ones that nobody wants to go to, the hated, feared, forgotten, the hungry, thirsty, naked, stranger, sick prisoner. The least of these is what the master called them. I said I'll go to them because I'm like no church can have me anymore. It's not like people are putting one ads out. You know, wanted drunken, fallen preachers. That ship had sailed, and so I felt like he was saying I got you. And so I did that in 2005. I prayed that prayer in 2008. That's how long it took to come to fruition. He brings a kid back into my life that I mentored when he was 12 or 13 years old, and now he's all grown up. At this point, 10 years later, mom calls me. He's gang-related murder charge, potential death penalty. Ms-13 leader, if you've heard of that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, bad news Terrorist now Bad news.
Speaker 1:So he was that guy. He was hated, feared, he was forgotten, he was dangerous. And they said and his mom wanted me to work with him. And the authorities told me don't mess with him, he's a dangerous man, he's a killer. And I said you don't know him like I know him. I knew him before the streets got him and so I worked with him for two years. I felt like God was saying that's your church. Now I have one guy, one kid. Save his life and he saved mine. We saved each other's life.
Speaker 2:And he's in jail at this point.
Speaker 1:He walked out this past year. Next week I'm going to see his face for the first time in 20 years.
Speaker 2:In 20 years. So when you talked to him, though, it was behind the in the prison, going to jail and going to talk to him, and and so when you first met him there's no way he just went oh hey, kit, you're here. Yeah, you're right, I'm wrong. Um, yep, let god back in my heart. No way, uh, no, it changed me. No, that didn't happen. It doesn't. It's not just not that easy. People want to think it's like that. Right, you have these epiphanies you had your crash and your angel took you home, but you, you just said, right there, it took you three years. It wasn't easy. It's a grind, just like running a business, just like life I mean life you've got to have habits.
Speaker 3:But the kid kept meeting with you, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Every week. Two years he became a high-profile witness. He cooperated with the feds, made a deal, which is what got the death penalty and the life sentence off the board, and I testified for him in the open courtroom. Ms-13 sent me a threat. I mean it was real Like I had a cop car in my cul-de-sac because there was an active threat. I mean I dove in. I was like I'm all in, you know, and I think that was the turning point for me. I've been afraid of stuff all my life. Now I was always the guy who would do anything, but there was this fear and I faced it. I'd already collapsed, I'd already lost everything. You know what I'm saying. And so I was just like why not? And that set me up. Two years working with him, it set me up.
Speaker 1:And then I was invited by a prison ministry to go into georgia's most violent prison. I didn't know any better. I'm like I've never done it. I was like, yeah, let's go. And when I walked in there which is what prison? Hayes, hayes State Prison, more active gang members than any prison in the state it's just on fire. But I had been working with Luis the whole time and I'm like I ain't shoot out now. That changed my life, give me some more. And so I went in there and started making friends and I tried an experiment, changed my. That prison went from worst to first. We started a peace movement. It caught on the heaviest gangsters in the whole system started calling different shots and it put me on the map and I've been to over 100 prisons now. I mean it's just crazy.
Speaker 2:All right, so you go into these prisons. I mean they shake you down, you go in there. I mean you said no fear, Come on, man, there's a little fear, right? I mean a little, Is there any? I mean seriously, dude.
Speaker 3:I'm, afraid right here.
Speaker 2:I know, I'm afraid, I'm afraid that we're putting this out there and people are. You can pick it up in the prisons. Hey man, I'm telling you guys, you want to start a business, small business safari? I wouldn't do it, no.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't have the guts. I can't explain it or take credit for it, and I certainly don't encourage it. But fear has not been a part of my game, it's excitement. Mexican prisons are one of my favorite things.
Speaker 1:Which are notorious in the movies and everything, and there are everything and that and more. And the first time I got to go, I just couldn't wait for it to come. It's a week away, I can't wait. And walking through the gate, I don't know what it is, other than just I kind of am supposed to do this, and I think it's that that the brothers on the inside really respect One.
Speaker 1:I go in there vulnerably and I say man, you saved my life. And they're like we don't even know you, dude, or through a translator, and I say, no, but you changed my life. And I tell them the story. The drunken, fallen preacher that came back through a bunch of gangsters convicts and they love it because it's vulnerable. I'm not some do-good preacher trying to save them. I'm like no, bro, save me. I'm not trying to bring God to you, I'm looking for God in you. I need you. And immediately, boom, it's on. And I start telling them the story and I start teaching my principles and they stand up. They're stand-up guys.
Speaker 1:Their whole world is respect, integrity and loyalty Three things that I should have learned in the ministry and I did not. Respect, shoot. I mean, if we disrespect each other, we might not be friends. If I disrespect somebody. In there I got a problem and out here in the free world, if I tell you I'm going to be somewhere and I miss it sorry bro you'll forgive me and invite me back. Maybe in there it don't work like that Loyalty if I say I got you and then when things go down I'm not there for you.
Speaker 1:I got a problem and so I had to learn those key things respect, integrity, loyalty behind that razor wire and they taught me well and it has served me everywhere I go. So I can look at a killer now and he sees me and I see him because I've been around them. And I don't say killer, like I mean there are so many brothers in there that are more noblemen than me, honorable, honest, faithful, righteous. I mean that that I'm not saying it, but there's. There's a code behind that wire that they taught me. That has made me a better man and that's why I can't quit, you know go well.
Speaker 2:Wow, I mean, it's just, let's go back let's go back.
Speaker 3:You said his name, luis. What? What was it that he did for you in those three years? He? Needed me and you needed to be needed.
Speaker 2:You need to be able to preach be able to talk to somebody one-to-one and feel needed again I needed a purpose.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying. I needed to be needed, I needed to be the guy. I told God I ain't going to talk to you anymore, I'm going to read your book, I'm not going to go see your people, and all of a sudden I'm in front of Luis and I'm like studying the Bible with him and praying with him and I'm trying to help him. He's teaching me everything about the gang life that civilians don't get to know, and so he educated me. I needed that.
Speaker 1:I educated him, I told him, but it was cathartic and every time I would go into a prison. And today, every time I do it, it's cathartic, bro. It's like all the shame that has been inside of me is just released because I can talk to these men about stuff I can't talk about on this podcast and I certainly can't talk about from a pulpit. But I I shared my deepest, darkest and they laughed and they cheered. It's like, oh, because they had never seen a preacher like me. Right, he's like he's messed up. You know, I'm saying, and I became a made man and now I'm a protected man, so I don't got to be afraid in there anymore.
Speaker 2:I'm very protected but sure, now, yeah, now, I mean now, brother, uh, I'm still not walking in there with you. Well, actually, if you invite me, I will, because change your life, yeah, I will. I will with you only because, uh, you man, this has been very powerful. You get what's going down if you're listening to this, because you can translate back to your life, all over the place, some of the worst people in your life. If you really dial it down where you think they are respect, loyalty and integrity. You know what and you think about that. He said behind the wire, there's more of that than there might be outside. And I'm like, after all those years in corporate America, yeah 100%.
Speaker 2:That's a big fuck, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, we can go there. Oh, yeah, that's three of them right there, man, I'm like, I'm like no, no and no, I'm like, oh, my god, they're like oh, for three. And I went, oh, but you even said oh, you're late, okay, that's okay, hey, um, well, you did me dirty on that one and okay, well, we'll give you over on that one. But I see it now, and now it's like no, no, you've got to have those rules, and those rules get really hard when you're in a place where it's unfortunate and you're tested.
Speaker 1:Um, don't think there haven't been tests. I mean I, I got trapped in a van in tijuana that I thought was a taxi and it wasn't. It was coyotes hustlers that could have sold me. I had to talk my way out of that van. I credit all those brothers behind the. I'd spent so much time with them that I knew how to talk to somebody and reason with them Like, here's why you gotta let me go. I mean they served me, you know. I mean there's been time. I mean there've been threats. You know, tell the white boy to watch his back.
Speaker 1:That went out through out haze and I knew I was in trouble. I messed with somebody's money or something and the brothers rose up and it it taught me so many things. It's like face your fear, walk back in, you know. I'm saying you got to, because what are you going to do if you don't walk back in? Then who are you? I promised, I promised them, I promised him, I promised myself I can go.
Speaker 1:Quit this the first thing in my life I've never quit beside my second marriage and I'm in love my wife. But do you see how it all goes back to them? Their code, and so now, don't get a twisted. I always have to say this because there are beautiful, beautiful people listening this show that are probably really struggling with me right now, because I'm serving those who have done horrible Things that can never be taken back, and to them I say god bless you, I get it, but every man that I can change in there maybe doesn't get out come and hurt your daughter or come to your neighborhood, right, you know what I'm saying. So it is public safety, but I have to say it gently because I'm working with some very tough people you said uh, hayes went from worst to first.
Speaker 3:What did? Did that mean?
Speaker 1:It was daily stabbings, I mean weekly violence, riots, craziness, just like on fire. And I think that, again, god put me in the right place at the right time. There's 12 of us. I was working with these dudes. It was like a faith program, but they all were connected Crips, bloods, gangster Disciples. Were they the leaders of those groups? They were high enough. I had a couple of heavy guys in there and we just started dreaming. I was trying to recreate myself. I mean I needed something new and I'm like what would it take to bring peace to this prison? And everybody laughed and said this prison will never have peace here. And I said but if it was, what would we do? We started talking about King and Gandhi and Mandela and Malcolm and these great nonviolent peacemakers, and we started talking about them and how peace is more powerful than violence. And I would challenge them. I'd say, like you got two gang leaders. One of them can order a crew to go and wet a guy up. The other one has so much power he can say there ain't going to be no violence right now for 40 days in a row. It's off which one has more power and the brothers would have to go. The dude that can bring the peace. So which is more powerful? Peace? How about if I give you a new kind of power? What if I help give you a way to stand down without losing respect? And I mean respect's everything. They'll die for it, they'll kill for it. And they, they stood up and it got to be world. Two or three of the real heavy guys said all right, if you do it, I'll do it. But if you, you know, if it was very fragile in the beginning and I started getting they, let me get.
Speaker 1:With 15 heavy guys in the prison, we started negotiating peace before things would happen. I mean, here's what my meetings look like. I mean sitting there. All right, bro, how's it? You know we're in a small chapel, no keys in the room, no officers. I don't know why they did that, but they did. And these are rivals, bro.
Speaker 1:And one brother puts his hand up and said this week in C1, brother was tied up in a sheet, set on fire and thrown off the tier. What are we going to do about that? You know, we got to get back and I'd have to open it up to the guys and say what are we going to do about it? We'd have to talk about it, negotiate Well, we'll do this, but we're not going to do this. Blah, blah, blah. And we started putting down beasts before they ever even happened and the warden didn't even know how we were doing it. Peace just started to come and then the daggum place got so peaceful that they thought the walkie won't work and the brothers started pouring out. Until we had this movement on fridays. It was a hundred guys in a room and they're all gangsters and man. It was cool that that they were becoming the change. And then they won that award and, uh, you know, michigan changed my life. Next place I went muskegon, michigan.
Speaker 2:Um, whether it's not where I was, jackson three prisons right there together and two years.
Speaker 1:we did the program over and over Over 1,000 guys went through it. Violence dropped 50% in two years.
Speaker 2:All right. So you started this movement. You did this. You're not going back to Hays right now because you've been able to set that program and so you've been going to other places, not only here in the US, but you've already mentioned Mexico. So how did you get that word out? And you started to grow this thing and and oh, by the way, you still have to live and eat, and so you're. Are you making money doing this thing? I mean, I mean not to go down to it, but at the end of the day, you still got to eat. Yeah, so is this a business? Is this how to go?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was. It was crazy because trying to convince my new wife that this is how I'm going to make a living and trying to go out, I started my nonprofit in 2011,. But trying to raise money to help the people that I'm trying to help, you know, it eventually evolved into a youth movement which people are way behind. You know what I'm saying. So, yes, it's my only, but I mean you mentioned small business. Startups or small business owners are trying to make it through whatever a pandemic or a recession, or just a life storm, whatever it's like.
Speaker 1:I always had a plan B and this is the first time I never had a plan B. It's just I've got to make it. I've got to. I got no choice and I just do what I got to do. But how did I get it out there? I just started riding with other people that were already going in. So I hooked up with another preacher in a group that was going and doing Mexican prisons. I said let me come and I'd ride in with them and then I'd establish my own reputation and then they'd have me come back. I mean, I danced with Zulu warriors in South African prisons and went into Ukrainian prisons and Honduran prisons, which are the craziest ones in the world.
Speaker 3:Really, and the message, the same message, resonates around the world.
Speaker 1:I had one of my books translated into Spanish, had an interpreter named Jesus and got in front of 50 guys, most of them probably cartels, in a crazy prison at Tijuana, mexico, and dadgummit. If they didn't light up, they just like somebody to believe in them, somebody to look for light in them, when all they are is feared, you know and hate it. It's like you go in there and, authentically, don't fear them. And plus, I trust them right off the jump. I tell them, I, off the jump, I tell them I'm going to respect you and I'm going to trust you with my life. I don't even know you yet, but I'm going to trust you with my life. I'm going to see if you're trustworthy and something happens and it just spread. And then finally it tipped and I started getting invited to prisons. That would hear about it, right.
Speaker 1:And then when I was in those prisons, there's always schools in those communities and those little towns, the prisons usually the biggest employer in town. So the word spreads quick who's this dude? And and they had me come and speak at the schools and the kids were just, you know, tight because it was gangster. You know they're in a gangster culture, I don't care if you're up here in Johns Creek or down in Carver, downtown Atlanta. Gangster is cool with kids, right. So that was the bridge I'm like. I started telling them about how the power of peace in the prisons and then we started going towards homicide, incarceration, crime, gang violence, all that and the tough underserved communities. But up here in Johns Creek I've done my program in Milton. They gave me a state championship ring, the first one in 18, the first one they won. Well, we might not be losing kids to incarceration and homicide and gangs, but what about date rape and suicide and overdose?
Speaker 2:accidental death. And so, to put this in context for a lot of folks who aren't familiar with Atlanta, of course we're Atlanta based for a lot of us, but he's talking about white suburbia and let's call it like it is. He's talking about the difference between Atlanta, which is a very heavy black community in town, atlanta, but he's talking about white suburbia. So when he went out there, everybody's thinking, oh well, these guys are all perfect, there's nothing going on, and it's like, yeah, chris, already shaking his head.
Speaker 3:Everybody's got their demons.
Speaker 2:Oh, they've all got demons and losing kids and a lot of suicide, yep Suicides and the drugs and the access to drugs that kids have across the board. So that's your ministry. You're doing juveniles, you're working with the. So how I get back to this who is paying for this? Is this our people? Are you?
Speaker 3:going to foundation. I just can't. Chris wants to know if you have a boat. Ah, you better have a boat.
Speaker 2:No, oh well all right he knows people with big boats. He gets to go on the big TTB yacht. Then what do you say? Foot pontoon boat?
Speaker 1:But anyway, you know you figure it out. There's I've got donors that have resources, that love and support what we're doing. You know little grants here and there. Um, you know I speak, sell books and do a lot of different things. So there's, your books make money, yeah, speaking more than my book.
Speaker 2:There we go, now we're talking because, uh, my darling wife just got done telling somebody who wanted to write a book.
Speaker 1:She said we better talk to chris first, because uh, it's gonna cost you more than it's gonna make you right in front of me I'm like that hurt, uh, that one stuck the tipping the, the thing that resonated, and I couldn't have done it this way because it wouldn't have been authentic when times were really hard, like I'm trying to figure out how to hustle and make a dollar. Um, if I'd have said people said go to the kids, people will. And I'm like I ain't supposed to do that yet, it's gotta be You're monetizing that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, for the money right, that's an easy buck right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it evolved over the years. And here's the magic ingredient I don't care if it's a hardcore prison or whether it's a suburban school or it's down in the tougher communities. Whatever is dreams, it's like the power of a dream. Dr King started it all. We jumped off that first program on his birthday in 2011, mlk Day and it was a dream. Would these prisoners dare to dream, even the ones that were doing what they call all day long, which is life sentence, no parole? Could I get them to dream?
Speaker 1:And then now, with the kids, it's called Protect the Dream, which is another one of the books I wrote, and it's really about, if you help somebody develop a big enough dream, that dream has a strong pull to it. It's physics the big thing pulls the small thing, and so the bigger the dream, the stronger the pull, and what kids lack in today's world is a big dream. So help them design a dream, manifest it and then protect it from what we call dream killers. And that would be how they use social media, perspective, authority objectification, drug and alcohol, bullying, you know, wow, unhealthy relationships. So it's really the whole game, and then we take it back to business, all right. Well, so so you. You've realized the dream. You started your business. Maybe it's Maybe you're still trying to get there. You got to protect it from what's going to kill that dream. That's what I did not do with my ministry.
Speaker 2:I did not protect my dream Right, a hundred percent, that's exactly it. And it seems so trite to go back to business and and I'm I'm going to just for a minute then go to go back. You're so shallow, I am so shallow, can I get a bigger boat? Uh, but protect that dream man, is that? You're right? You, you make decisions, and I've heard somebody say this a long time ago. Every decision you make limits. Uh, how far you can go throughout your life. You know you, uh, go to college, okay, well, you're gonna go in that one.
Speaker 2:Um, if you have a kid out of wedlock early on in life, that's a real. That takes a lot of the buffet away. You know, I'm saying, and so, but what kit's talking about is, you know, helping people understand that early on and goes back to the community. But my biggest question is man, you don't know this on the podcast and you haven't figured it out yet. Kit's a white man and he got the mlk award which, again, if you're sitting there and you want to go right down racial boundaries, which we do, it's really easy. Right, white and black. Well, only a black guy can get a mlk award. You got an mlk award and you're a white dude it was naacp come on, let's I mean seriously.
Speaker 2:I mean again, the media uh portrays that and you go back to a lot of my good friends were black growing up and I didn't even realize it, but we talked about this, but that's an elephant in the room. I mean, tell me how that was for you, and when you got up there were you the only white guy, or what.
Speaker 1:We were. They surprised me. It was their big annual gala and I couldn't come. I was speaking, it was Dr King's day, and so I was speaking at another event in another city and they said, what if we get you a police escort to be here on time, could you do it? And I'm just like, well, you don't need to do that. I mean, I'll get there but I'll be late. And so I walk in and it's a big event, it's a gala, it's celebrities on the stage. And I come down and they said, go ahead. I made sure they knew I was there and they told me to sit down. I said I'm just sitting there and just hanging out. I wasn't dressed for it or anything. I'm wearing a leather jacket or whatever.
Speaker 1:And they get to that Living the Dream Award and they surprised me. They said my name and I looked at it and I was like what? And it was one of the biggest honors I've ever had, because I adore that man. He changed my life. I mean, dr King is like I've gotten to know his daughter, dr Bernice. We did a book signing and released together at the King Center. They carry my book there, endorsed it.
Speaker 1:You know, I've gotten to know I've gotten to know Dr Mahatma Gandhi's granddaughter. You know I've done some work with her. Ila she's still, she's getting on in age now. Mandela's organization, all my heroes I've managed to connect with. But but you can imagine the funny I was on a tour we I mean we did this crazy tours where we had a van, a hip-hop crew. We go from prison to prison to these shows. And they had me do black history month. I think it was in ohio or somewhere, and so they'd just be hundreds of thousand inmates y'all packed in there getting ready to have this big thing, and they're like the MLK speaker, you know, for MLK Day, and then I walk out and it's kind of like, is he?
Speaker 2:introducing the next dude Right, and you got it. Let's call it like it is. You were in this prison and when you looked out in that audience it was diverse, but it was probably mostly black, right or Hispanic and probably not as many. So when you showed up, you tell you can't tell me they didn't sit there and go do what? What is going on right now? And I mean you had to convince them. So talk about that, because I mean you say you connected with them, but you're not connecting with these guys. You just walked out there and they're like what in the hell is going on with this white dude? So how do you do that? Tell us how you broke in. And then you were able to make an impact with your speech and that it's authentic.
Speaker 1:It's just me going and genuinely starting with thanking them for saving my life and then telling the story and they're in it's automatic cred. You know what I'm saying and I think that there's. I used to be afraid to be very vulnerable on stage and I wish would have been. If you said you know what? Would you go back and tell yourself as a young preacher, be yourself. If they can't handle that, then that's fine, but let them see you.
Speaker 1:I did that in the prisons and it changed my life and so it took them, takes them no time to look past the color and say, man, that's a brother right there.
Speaker 1:And I went and actually co-pastored the church down in the Fourth Ward, right by the King Center. It was quite an honor right off of Auburn Avenue and I was, you know, me and my family were like the token white family in this congregation and I was an associate pastor just for a minute for a couple of years, like nine and ten, something like that and so I finally I started my own thing and I'm getting ready to fly and they do a big send off for me at the church and they bring me and my wife and kids up on stage, give her flowers and balloons and whatnot. And then they bring this big gift to me on the stage as a going away present and um, and I open it, it's this big, broad sword, just this cool, like you know, braveheart kind of a sword, which is, and uh, and then they made me, they made me an honorary black man.
Speaker 1:wow, black and everything oh come on it was probably the second greatest award I've ever got right and double. As you know, honorary black guy, it's made amazing, awesome and I hope I don't offend any viewers I mean shoot I.
Speaker 2:You know I'm saying if you are, that's on you because, again, I think that that's your own personal, uh perception. And I think you look back and, man, it's been amazing talking to the kid and we have we usually do our final four questions. We just forget that we got to talk about it. So so what are you doing now and how can people help you with what you're doing?
Speaker 1:yeah, we've got several big things going okay, so, okay. So we're in the works right now. We've got kind of a collaborative group and we're going to do a documentary series and we're going to get cameras behind the wire in Texas prisons and they're going to get to see what I've told you about about these gangsters coming together and powerful. At the end of our program we have a huge presentation, a celebration. It's like a, I'll say like this is a gangster party and, uh, we give awards, certificates, they make presentations, music, I mean it's. They get rewarded and they celebrate free world food. It's amazing, so, prayerfully that is, that project is going to get done and we're we're moving ahead with it and we're, you know, could be netflix might be the first stop, but I think we're going to maybe have some options on that. We're also getting ready to scale our Protect the Dream program, which has been very kind of local. I've done it in different places around the country, I do like the sounds of that.
Speaker 3:That is such a cool thing.
Speaker 1:It's really cool and we start with the student athlete because they have the most influence. So at Milton I worked with the football team because they have the most followers right, and we get them to its character and leadership and positive role modeling. So now I expect you in the hallways. You take up for the kid that's being bullied, the girl who had too much drink at the party and she getting ready to do something. The cameras are coming out. You use your influence to get her out of there and get her home. You be a protector. You've been afforded this popularity and this influence. And now with Instagram and TikTok, they've got followers. Nil deals, come on. So now's the time to start getting the ones who have the influence to protect other people's dreams. So now, when we do our program, getting ready to do it with McKeechum football, at the end, when they graduate the program, we commission them as dream protectors in their hallways. Not just protect your own dream, protect ours, protect his, and so I'm excited about that. So we're ready to scale that, I believe. So people can definitely support that.
Speaker 1:I also have a program. I didn't forget about the churches. I'm a different kind of preacher now, but I've got another book called 40 Days of Prayer and that's been on the road. I did Estonia and Romania a few months ago. I did Honduras a couple months ago, going to Cambodia in September. So that's kind of a fun thing we're doing, um, so yeah, and it's kit cummingscom or power of peace projectcom.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, you want to talk about uh and Alan. I know I speak for everybody. Uh, alan was so jacked uh to have you come here because, um and your, uh, your story is amazing. Um and I, you know you don't want to hear it, but you got to hear it from a couple of guys who've never seen the inside of a prisoner, totally scared to go. But if you tell me I got to go, I will go with you, man, because you're right. After listening to you, brother, I can do whatever I can do to help. I want to help and I just love what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:The protector of the dream, protector of this, best ones we've ever done, alan, it's super powerful, I love it. Thank you, hey guys, if you learned something, shame on you. That's my catholic guilt coming on you right now. Shame on you. No, you did learn something. Go out there, make it a big day, get up there, make it up that mountaintop. Protect that dream dream and keep giving back. Let's go. Cheers everybody. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Small Business Safari. Remember, your positive attitude will help you achieve that higher altitude you're looking for in a wild world of small business ownership. And until next time, make it a great day.
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