The Small Business Safari

She Left Wall Street, Built A Brand, And Found Freedom In Small Business | Jessica Dennehy

• Chris Lalomia, Alan Wyatt, Jessica Dehenney • Season 4 • Episode 220

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What happens when a regulatory attorney trades Wall Street stress for barber-chair swagger? Jessica shows how instinct, culture, and system design built a luxury grooming brand that outlasted the copycats.

Summary:

Jessica, founder of Mad Men Barbershop, shares how she turned gut calls, culture, and brand discipline into a multi-location grooming experience that grew stronger through competition and COVID. We unpack instinct-based decision-making, the split between creative vision and operational discipline, scaling culture across shops, and how social media keeps both clients and staff accountable. Jessica also opens up about writing Pivot And Slay and Selfish Is A Superpower, and speaks candidly about ambition, parenting, identity, and the practical hiring and vibe-setting tactics that keep her team aligned. This episode is all about building a lifestyle brand that stands the test of time—no matter who tries to copy it.

🎥 Watch the full episode on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@TheSmallBusinessSafari

💡 GOLD NUGGETS 

• Founding Mad Men Barbershop as a lifestyle brand, not a commodity
 • Why instinct often beats perfect plans in early entrepreneurship
 • How Jessica handled copycats—and why doubling down on culture works
 • COVID shutdown survival decisions and reopening timing
 • Scaling vibe, expectations, and accountability across multiple locations
 • Writing Pivot And Slay and Selfish Is A Superpower
• How ambitious women navigate identity, parenting, and business growth
• Hiring, training, and culture-setting that keeps standards high

🔗 Guest Links

• Website: https://pivotandslay.com

https://www.madmenbarbershop.com
 • Instagram: @pivotandslay
 • LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/thejessicadennehy-7b629a201
• Books: Pivot And Slay & Selfish Is A Superpower (Amazon)

🌍 Follow The Small Business Safari

• Instagram | @smallbusinesssafaripodcast
 • LinkedIn | linkedin.com/in/chrislalomia
• Website | https://chrislalomia.com

thetrustedtoolbox.com 




From the Zoo to Wild is a book for entrepreneurs passionate about home services, looking to move away from corporate jobs. Chris Lalomia, a former executive, shares his path, discoveries, and tools to succeed as a small business owner in home improvement retail. The book provides the mindset, habits, leadership style, and customer-oriented processes necessary to succeed as a small business owner in home services.

SPEAKER_00:

So you said something really important. The difference between you and your competition is you it's the ownership and it's your culture that you create. How when you go from two locations where it's manual basketball reference, man to man, and then suddenly you've got four locations and it's zone. I mean you can't be in all four places at once. How do you make sure that what made you special and made the customers stay with you instead of going to these fakes? How do you how do you make that happen?

SPEAKER_05:

I'm already in zone defense over here. I'm a football fan, so I understand the football-wise, but I'm already in zone defense because my business partner lives in upstate New York, which is about five hours away. So I'm already here with both of these shops on my radar. Um, and so I think adding more is definitely going to be stressful and different. And so I'll have to report back to you on how that goes. But right now, um, how I manage that, and it's funny because someone told me the other day that I'm like a duck, that I look so calm on the on the top side, but underneath I'm like this with my feet going, right? And I think that's the perfect analogy for business ownership because it looks like I'm never working because I'm like, I have a lot of freedom in how I can structure my day. I'm not at the shops all the time. One's open 13 years, one's open eight years. They're very, very established. My they run very like well-oiled machines without me.

SPEAKER_02:

Welcome to the Small Business Safari, where I help guide you to avoid those traps, pitfalls, and dangers that lurk when navigating the wild world of small business ownership. I'll share those gold nuggets of information and invite guests to help accelerate your extent to that mountaintop of success. It's a jungle out there, and I want to help you traverse through the levels of owning your own business that can get you bogged down and distract you from hitting your own personal and professional goals. So strap in Adventure Team and let's take a ride through the safari. Alan, I'm vibing, baby. I'm telling you what, man, this is gonna be an awesome episode. Um, I am a fanboy of our guest, and uh she is a vibe. She is not just a person, she's not just a business owner, she's a vibe. You've actually used the word stock. And I'm wondering, do we need to talk restraining more? Well, we're the good news is today we're zooming. So I think I've got the uh the required between us and the fact that she was a lawyer before probably give me a deep chip anyway. But uh before we do that, Alan, we got to talk about what? Me, of course. All right, so I was up in Chicago, right? What should we talk about? Right, up in Chicago doing my narry thing, right? Uh, because you're the president. I'm president here in Atlanta and on the national court, thank you. Um and I went and I got to grace the Milwaukee home show. So I went up to Chicago, did that, and then I I drove up to Milwaukee to see their home show. Totally crazy. I had such a blast seeing how these guys pulled off a home show in a in a smaller market than Atlanta. Um, but they did a really good job, and I had a lot of fun because I get to go in there and they went, Oh, you're on the national board. So everybody wanted to talk to me. I just the way you like it. I did. So I I brought out the I brought out the crown, I brought out the scepter, I did ring. I did, I got to bring out because Catholic, you know, the the in the you know, Catholic guy, Chicago, Pope. I said, you know, I'm close. Uh I'm Catholic.

SPEAKER_00:

You're Pope adjacent.

SPEAKER_02:

Jason, exactly right. So, you know what was cool though, is you get to see people in your industry doing things in different markets, and it really uh opens your eyes for what you can do in your market. And I think getting that perspective and bringing it back to what you do and how you do things is a super cool thing. And right on the heels of that, I had told somebody, I said I would never do a home show. I was just going to go there. And lo and behold, just guess what my buddy Alan does is he sends me to an Amway meeting. Um, if you've ever been to one of those, that's where they am attack you and tell you you're gonna drink the Kool-Aid and do it. But in this case, it was our local chamber here outside of Atlanta in Johns Creek, where Alan said, Hey, I just want you to talk to these guys because they want to start a home show. And he didn't tell me that until I got there. I did too. Are you sure about that? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

You you know, I told you I go. Are you sure about that? Yes. And I said, I know the guy and partners, right? Chisp, yeah. Never listen. You're just sitting there reading the paper, going, uh-huh. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05:

It's like a marriage.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. You're gonna have to I might need your therapist number. Right. So I I no, I told you home show, and you just started shaking your head. No, no, no. They don't want to do it for it. So I'm like, okay, they need to talk to you. And and they were gonna buy you drinks, and you just big daddy'd and bought them drinks. I did. Felt ambushed, even though I'd already told you. I was so totally ambushed.

SPEAKER_02:

And so what's going on now? Guess what? You went to a home show, that was awesome. And guess what? So tomorrow I'm going to do the radio, and guess what I'm going to do now? Is I'm going to meet the guy who's the committee chair who goes, Great, can't wait to meet with you, Chris. We're going to get this thing going. We're going to rock this thing. I like, hey, just pump your brakes a little bit there, Tiger. I mean, I'm all in for 100% go, go, go, because that's what I did. I said, but I don't know, man. We're going to have to talk a little bit more. He goes, No, no, no, we're going to make this happen. I'm like, oh shit. So what have I done? All right. Let's get to our guest, shall we? Oh, we have a guest. We do. Okay. Uh, we've referred to her a little bit. She is a vibe. She is Jessica Dennehy. She is a reformed lawyer who started a business, still has the business, wrote a book. Alan, have you read a book? Yeah, they have uh big pictures. Okay. Doing coloring snowflakes. All right. No, she wrote a real book called Pivot and Slay. Um, I have uh been following her on social media. She's a great follower on social media because you get a real window into just the person that is a business owner and kind of what you do and how you do it. So I am thrilled to have Jessica on and we get a chance to kick it around a bit. Welcome, Jessica.

SPEAKER_05:

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02:

Great. All right. We gotta talk first. Hang on, we gotta get into this one. He's so excited. I am so excited. I'm like, I mean, normally he's excited, but he's really excited.

SPEAKER_00:

All right, why law school?

SPEAKER_05:

Well, it feels like a whole it feels like a whole lifetime ago, but I when I was younger, like 10, 11, I just love to hear other people's perspectives. And so I would always challenge them and be like, I knew what I thought about a subject, but I would ask someone, like, what do you think about this? And all those taboo categories of conversation that people are like, oh, you can't talk about. I'm like, no, no, I want to talk about it because I don't want to fight with you, but I want to understand your side. And eventually I realized that that was a really great characteristic to have when you're a lawyer. Because if you're gonna go to trial, you need to understand what the other person's side will be, what emotions they'll play on, and how you can counteract those. And so I just realized I'm gonna be a great lawyer one day. And I I ever since I was 11, I wanted to do that.

SPEAKER_00:

So you so you listen to them so you can gut them. Oh yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05:

I know what you're doing because my I like to understand people, you know, yes.

SPEAKER_02:

Because my son is almost the same as you, is uh, he's always wanted to be a lawyer. So tell me what what am I supposed to be feeling? Because he's in he's in his one L year finishing up his first one at Baylor, uh, coming home in the week. What what am I supposed to be doing with him when he comes back? Is he gonna be trying to empathize with me and then gut me?

SPEAKER_05:

I feel like the first year of law school is the worst year of your life. It's just they make you have so many theoretical conversations that when you are with around other people, all you tend to do is argue with them. So I'm just gonna give it to you straight. I would prepare for him to think he knows everything and feel like he's far smarter than you are.

SPEAKER_02:

I think that's good luck this Christmas. Oh, this is gonna be a fun Christmas because he's coming home to work in a uh DA's office about two and a half hours away up in the North Carolina Mountains. So we'll see him.

SPEAKER_05:

Oh wow. I worked at a DA's office too when I was in law school. So it's good, it's good for your resume and good to learn that side of things.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, good. How a law did you practice?

SPEAKER_05:

I ended up in my third year taking a securities and regulations course, which I had never had any interest in before because I truly hate numbers. But I don't know, I loved it so much. And I was going to Brooklyn Law, it's right by Wall Street, and um, my professor worked at the New York Stock Exchange, and she took a liking to me and she gave me an internship, and I worked my butt off in this internship. And when I graduated, the New York Stock Exchange hired me as a regulatory attorney, and I did that for 10 years.

SPEAKER_02:

Whoa. Yeah, 10 years on Wall Street as an attorney.

SPEAKER_05:

10 years on Wall Street as an attorney. I worked so basically the stock exchange is its own regulatory body. So we do all of not the criminal work, the SEC does the criminal work and we do um the work that's not criminal. So we take people's licenses away and we fine them and things like that. But as a lawyer, it was great because there's not a lot of opportunities to go immediately from law school and be thrown into questioning people in a deposition or being at trial. And this job allowed me to do that. And I love trial. So it I had a lot of fun there.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, I got it. I know.

SPEAKER_05:

Well, you know, I I have a very bubbly personality, and the number one compliment I get is when someone's like, You don't seem like a lawyer at all. And I'm like, Thank you, because I don't fit in. But I realized as a young lawyer on Wall Street, I was a woman, I was 26, and the guys on Wall Street don't like that. And so I learned very early on that my greatest superpower was my kindness because it made them feel like they were in control, even though they weren't. And uh I got to use that to my advantage, which was fun. It's a little evil, but you know, these guys were stealing money from people, so I didn't feel that bad about it.

SPEAKER_02:

I love it. She's smiling the whole time. She's smiling. You know what? She's I think she was smiling while she got to you, Alan.

SPEAKER_05:

I mean, only if you do bad things.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, we don't, yeah. Don't do bad things, Alan, please. For the love. All right. So uh you're you're working, you're killing it on law on uh Wall Street, uh, and you decide to start a business. Tell us how do you do that? Because it's it's a similar story that Alan and I have too. He had the big daddy job at Enterprise. I was sitting here at a re regional bank, big daddy job, and said, screw it, we're gonna go start a business. So tell us how you did that.

SPEAKER_05:

So it wasn't my idea. Um, I'm not gonna try to take credit for it, but at the time I was married and I was pregnant with my first daughter, very, very pregnant. And my husband at the time was really unhappy in his career and he really wanted to work for himself. And he said, I have this great idea. I was wondering what you think about it. And I really thought it was a good idea. So we decided to that the perfect time would be now because I was working full-time and I could fund our life and we can take this risk and still be able to like maintain our lifestyle, which a lot of entrepreneurs can't do. Um, I'm not saying that it was easy, it was still really scary and hard, especially because I think we signed our first lease a week before I had this baby. Um, but that's that's how the whole business was born. And after I was really once I had my daughter and I didn't see her a lot because I was working so much on Wall Street, I was really unhappy. And that's when um we decided to make the business bigger so that we can both be in it and we can uh I can leave Wall Street. And so that's how it all happened.

SPEAKER_00:

So I I'm wondering what our listeners driving down the street think that her business is.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, no, I think we have to take it a little bit longer. Hold it, huh? Stay at that red light for just a minute longer, guys. Hang on.

SPEAKER_05:

I don't think people would guess it.

SPEAKER_02:

I really don't know. Not in a million years.

SPEAKER_05:

No, no, I definitely don't look like a lawyer, but I 100% don't look like the owner of this business.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. I love it. Let's keep it. Let's keep it. Oh my gosh, what is this not true crime?

SPEAKER_00:

It's not true crime.

SPEAKER_02:

No, what's this? This would be like mystery. Yeah, that's definitely way better than Hotel. Puzzles. Yeah, love it. So um, I you know, that's actually similar to what Alan and I did too. And people always ask, it must have been easier to make the leap, knowing that you used to you at least had one income because both of our wives had great jobs. Uh, my wife had a super job. I never felt that though. I never felt like, you know what, if I go out there and just completely fail, or I'll put in 30, 40 hours. I don't feel like that. How how did you feel?

SPEAKER_05:

I did not feel like that either. I was I was completely terrified because um I just bought my house. I just bought my first house, my still, my still house that I still have. And I was about to have a baby, which I had also never done before. So there was nothing easy about also being like, oh yeah, let's open a business because my my law job is very predictable. You know, I know what hours I have to work, I know what my paycheck is gonna be, I know how much is taken out for taxes and healthcare and blah, blah, blah. And business ownership is the antithesis of that. You never know what the what the money flow is gonna be like. You have no idea if you're gonna kill it, if you're not, if one month's gonna suck, at the next month you'll be a millionaire. Like you just don't know. And I at that point in my life was very risk-averse, very methodical, very left brain, very logical. And I was not at all prepared mentally for uh the stress of a small business. And I was not calm. Me having a job didn't make me feel any better about this.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, uh funny because uh Ellen jokes about therapy, but I guess most everybody who listens most knows that uh that I am. Uh, and it was because of this. I mean, um, it almost cost me my marriage uh the same thing. I I took a very risk-averse lady and said, Hey, I'm just gonna throw it all the way. I'm quitting my job and starting a business. She's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, stop. Wait, wait, wait, wait. And she felt like I trapped her. And uh, I, you know, it took a long time and we're we're still hanging in there, but it's um it's tough.

SPEAKER_05:

It's hard. I mean, I got divorced in the middle of uh growing my business, um, our business. We're still business partners. Um, and I think that it puts a lot of strain on your marriage to be business partners, it takes a lot of strain. You know, at that time when we first opened, he was the one who was in it all the time, and I was still working. And so he was obsessing about it, and I couldn't really understand that because I was obsessing about my responsibilities, you know, and we weren't on the same page with the things that we were worrying about, and it's hard, it's hard.

SPEAKER_00:

So at that point when you opened the business, was there a thought that at some point you would roll into it?

SPEAKER_05:

Or no, at that moment, no. I never thought I'd want it was not part of the original plan. The plan was this would be great for him, it would be a great way for him to have a creative outlet and to not have a boss, which are the things that he wanted. And I thought we would just I would probably just stay at work. But what I didn't see coming was I held this baby in my arms and I became ultra, ultra feminine. I was like in my masculine energy on Wall Street, you know, and I was like, ah, kids, whatever. I can get a I can get someone to stay with them during the day. And then I went, I had to go back from maternity leave six months later, and I I I didn't want to. I cried. And the whole time during my maternity leave, I had her strapped on to me, you know, in the baby carrier. And he and I were at the shops. We were painting them, we were like, you know, designing them, we were opening them, we were trying to do advertisements on the streets, like panning out flyers, and she was there the whole time. And then I was kind of like, huh, I like this. This is kind of fun. This is kind of exciting, right? And it planted the seed for like, if I don't want to go back, and that's fun and exciting. Like, maybe one day I won't have to. Maybe, maybe one day I can be in it.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's kind of how what she is saying is exactly what my wife heard through when we had our first baby. She is a rock star accountant on the partner track, the whole nine yards. And we have a baby, and I just I'll never forget that first day after maternity leave, and she's got to drop it off at daycare. I'll never forget.

SPEAKER_02:

I know, I heard he said it. Oh my god, you are such a man. Thanks for pointing that out. Yeah, oh my god, John, I know what I need to do. John, get your gun and come shoot it. Yeah, because this didn't just come back from a hunt.

SPEAKER_05:

Not something I saw coming. It was was the pain that caused me to leave her.

SPEAKER_00:

And and I'll tell you, she struggled with it for a long time because every day she went to work, she felt like a horrible mother, and every day she stayed home. She felt like she was getting dumber by the second and missing out.

SPEAKER_05:

Oh, I feel that. Yeah. That's that's why I love business ownership. Like for the lady listeners, I say this to my daughters all the time. Like, I'm so grateful for this experience because with this, I get to be the crazy successful entrepreneur that I want to be and understand business and grow as a human being in the business world. And then I still get to go down to the girls' school and volunteer with all the moms who don't have jobs, right? For the book fair and this fundraiser and that fundraiser. And I'm around all the time for drop-off and pickup and and homework. And it's like I get the best of both of these worlds. And I'm super grateful for that.

SPEAKER_02:

That is so cool. Such a successful path. I mean, uh being there. And you know, that uh that's awesome because a lot of us, uh, you know, it struck, especially in the beginning, you talked about those struggles. And it's hard to be in the moment and see that it can happen. You know, people talk about that all the time. You know, you just got to visualize it, you know, but do the vision board. You gotta do all that. But it's another thing to sit there at 3:30 in the morning as we talk about. I'm usually curled up on the couch, you know, rocking back and forth with the fetal position, going, what the hell did I just do to my family? What the hell did I just do to my family? Because there's a lot of pressure. I said, Don't worry, don't worry, man. I'm gonna be I'm gonna supplant my income, I'm gonna be a millionaire. Uh, and that was 17 years ago. Um, still working on that. How's it going? So it's tough.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh so you uh have so many questions because once we reveal what the business is, it's like, how how do you walk away from, I'm assuming, a pretty fat job on Wall Street? Let's say it. How am I gonna replace it?

SPEAKER_05:

I mean, I think every single person in my life thought I was completely crazy. Like, how could you give up this dream job that you worked your whole life for to do this, this to like open this business? Like this, almost like they they maybe thought it was beneath me almost, which is pretty fun to show off now how successful the business is and be like, yeah, well, I make more money this way than I did before. So haha, suckers, and uh, I'm volunteering with my kids a lot, I'm on vacation a lot. It's great, it's great. But but I think any logical person would have said, This is crazy. It wasn't logical. You know, business usually isn't logical.

SPEAKER_00:

It is interesting how people make assumptions, and I'm one of them because I remember in our early days in the chamber and you meet somebody, it's like, oh, I've got a dog grooming business, oh, I've got the blah, blah, blah, whatever the franchises are. And you just sort of make these assumptions and then find out they were titans of business in the corporate world before they just decided to go do that. So I could this is this is really fun.

SPEAKER_02:

All right, let's reveal it. Should we reveal it? All right, no, I'm not doing it. I don't even know what it is. I'm kidding. Ah, all right, Jessica. What did you start?

SPEAKER_05:

I started a brand of luxury barbershops.

SPEAKER_02:

So you're talking to two bald guys. Um, I don't know if you can.

SPEAKER_05:

You could, yeah. Hot shave.

SPEAKER_02:

Very popular. Um, I'll bet you uh luxury.

SPEAKER_00:

No.

SPEAKER_05:

We're in Long Island, New York, which is 30 minutes outside of Manhattan.

SPEAKER_02:

So you guys saw this market, you evaluated it, looked at it. Did you guys build a business plan for this before you started, or just said not jumping?

SPEAKER_05:

Ha ha ha ha. A business plan? No. We 100% did not have a plan. We had a plan in our brain.

SPEAKER_02:

So you said, you know what, instead of going to the barbershop, like I did grow up going to a barbershop, literally, the pole in Michigan, on the side of Detroit. Yeah. The pole that barber was been doing it for 150 years, go in there, everybody's smoking the aqua velvet and cigarettes. Exactly right. That was my barbershop experience. So you go in there and they'd always be playing cribbage, talking about something to do with numbers and something else to do with horses. I didn't really understand. Um, don't worry, it's an Italian thing. We can't talk about it. You know what I'm saying? I got a guide for that. Uh, so you guys come up with this idea for a luxury barber shop. So tell them how that's a differentiator.

SPEAKER_05:

It was his idea because uh clearly I've never been to a barber shop before. I owned a barbershop because I I don't have sons and I'm a girl. So I I don't know the experience that you guys have, but what he was saying, basically describing a business like you just described, and he's kind of fancy, you know, like he likes nice stuff. And he was like, I don't want to sit here and get my hair cut. And the only other option, again, this is 13 years ago, was to go to a woman's salon, which he also didn't like. So he's like, I want to just create a place, like you said, I'm a vibe. He wanted to create a vibe. He wanted to create a place where guys feel like guys, but there's still it's still a barber shop. It's like, but it's relaxing, but it's elevated. And so he wanted to make it like vintage, uh, serve espresso and just be able guys to come relax, watch TV, get a shape, get a cut. And you know, that's what that was his vision. And he brought it to life. We didn't have a business plan. We didn't neither of us cut hair. I'm a lawyer. He is a custom clothing designer. Nope. He is a custom clothing designer. Oh, and so he's creative. Stylist. Oh my god. Nope. And and still to this day, neither of us cut hair. Um, but I think there's beauty in that because we had to figure it out. Like we had to figure out what licenses we need, where to buy barber chairs and supplies. Like we had to kind of break into this world where we didn't really know anything before. So that was pretty scary, but also really like it's exciting. You guys know what I mean. It's like the most exciting thing and also the most terrifying thing at the same exact time. It's you can't explain it and it's not for everybody.

SPEAKER_02:

It is right. I mean, again, it's hard to explain, but you've never felt more alive.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh I think the time that you rode a roller coaster that was beyond what you thought you were comfortable with.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You you as soon as you got the and you look over.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, no, wait, no, just stop. Wait, wait, no, let me. Oh, here we go. Holy shit. Oh, I'm going upside down. And then you're like, that was awesome. Oh my god, my shit broke my deck. That was so awesome.

SPEAKER_00:

I wonder if she if they would have done a business plan if they needed the money. I mean, at the time, you had this this job. You're an attorney, you're safe. And if if the little extent Yeah, I funded it.

SPEAKER_05:

You I funded it so he didn't need to convince anyone but me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, no, and and I and I'm not taking that lightly. Trust me, trust me. But you still had a huge fallback, so you didn't feel like you needed to overplan it. It's just like, what you know, you just kind of did it on the go, which is interesting. But it's interesting that he did not know how to cut hair.

SPEAKER_05:

So you you know, no, we took a huge leap of faith, and frankly, I think it was my first lesson in trusting my gut instinct because that, like I said, I was very type A back then. Now I'm not, but then I was. And so for me to be so overprotective financially of my funds, of my family, my house, blah, blah, blah. And to see him present this to me and in my gut, my heart of hearts, be like, this is a home run. Just do it. You'll figure it out later. That is the scariest moment of my life, but also the first time that I really took a leap of faith without really understanding how much um, like how we were gonna make it happen. We didn't, we didn't know. And that's the first chance I took where like I didn't really know if it was gonna work, but I wanted to find out. And I think in entrepreneurship, that trusting that being able to hear your your voice inside of you like that and and then trust it blindly is a huge asset. And the trick is though, you have to know um when you're when your excited voice is talking, when your logical voice is talking, when your true gut is talking. And I think over the years you just kind of figure that out. But that was like my first memory of really going all in on something just based off instinct.

SPEAKER_00:

So I'm assuming he had this image in his mind of what he wanted it to look like. But I I'm also assuming neither of you knew how to hire somebody. Probably didn't know how to set pricing, none of that stuff. I mean, was it was there a mentor in the in the picture or somebody that gave you some ad no no?

SPEAKER_05:

Nothing. This was the two of us. And and really at that point, it was mostly him because remember, we signed a lease and I had a baby the next week. So I'm not gonna pretend like I was in some boardroom making real decisions. Like I was really trusting him. He's great creatively, he still is. He's got such a great eye for things, he's got his temperature on the pulse, he's very good at seeing trends. He shines in all of those categories. And so he just put his nose to the grindstone and he did all those things. He created the price list and and the vibe and um the vision for the company and now and with advertising, he kind of took like a Ralph Lorentz approach where you know the ads are not really about clothes, they're about like focusing on a lifestyle of feeling and emotion that you want the customer to feel when they're with your brand. And that is um how he really made a splash with the ads at first. And we were on a tight budget.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, so he just kind of what were some of the things that you put in place to just create this elevated experience?

SPEAKER_05:

I think that at that time the movie Mad Men or the show rather was very popular and it was kind of like a guys' club, you know, in the 60s of guys on uh Madison Avenue. And he really he really went with that because that was something popular in that moment and um created a feel for men that when they're sitting in there, they kind of feel like they're transported back to that time and that they can just kind of like be gentlemen hanging out with other gentlemen and relaxing, and it's like a guy's place, you know? And that's really that's really the theme that he went with to create the brand. And it took off because at that point there was nothing like it here. The barbershop industry wasn't like it is now, 13 years later. It was very basic back then, and now it's one of the biggest growing, largest growing industries at this point. So it's we were kind of like on the front end of that.

SPEAKER_02:

So there you go. See, I'm I'm telling you, if uh if I was today and I was in my uh late 20s, going where I am now, I probably would have done it. I probably would have put it. I would have, I would have probably put the hair back on.

SPEAKER_05:

And then go but the the thing is you never the thing about ownership of a business is like you can never just sit back and relax. Like it's not like he has, we have changed the vibe of the shop so many times over the last 13 years because you have to stay current and you have to continue creating. And I think um that's kind of where being partners with someone it can come in handy because if you're a solo person starting a business, you're now responsible for all of the details and all of the creative work. And that can be really hard because they're completely two different mindsets. Um, for him, he gets to always be in that creative mindset, which is great because he's always pushing the business forward with his new vision and revamping the style so that it stays interesting to people. And he gets to do all that. And I get to stay in more of my comfort zone in terms of what I am good at, which is keeping everything in line, doing all the financing, the day-to-day work. I'm a people person, he is not. So I can deal with all of the hiring and staffing and all of that. So I think um having having a partner that is different than you and has different attributes and strengths is really important too. And for the people who are out there trying to start businesses on their own, I can see why that would be an extra hurdle for them having to take off that cap and try to put the other one on.

SPEAKER_02:

So you guys get started, you get rolling. Um, was there ever a time where you went, uh-oh, this ain't working, man? I'm sorry, man. Great idea. Just no, I'm done. We're done, we're out of here. We gotta go.

SPEAKER_05:

Yes, but later. We had already opened three when we had that problem. We got to three locations. We got to three locations before we hit a speed bump. Ah, well, we hit speed bumps, but basically what was happening is after the second location, people were catching on that this was a good. Business idea. And so people in the area started to try to replicate the business. But the thing is, it's the it's really the owners that make the business successful. So you can replicate what the business looks like. But if you don't have the dedication and drive and creativity that the people who are running the business have, you'll never really truly recreate it. But temporarily, people will get pulled to these businesses just because they're new and they have a similar look. So that started to happen. But the real big hiccup came during COVID because we couldn't operate. So those were really tough times. All three were in Long Island at the time? No, we had two in Long Island and then we actually opened one in the Dominican Republic.

SPEAKER_02:

Closer to the neighborhood.

SPEAKER_05:

Well, all of our staff, most of our staff is Dominican. And so they've been, they always encouraged us like to go there. So we did. Luckily for us, right before COVID, we got um an offer to for someone to buy it. So thank God, because then COVID hit like two months later, and it was really a struggle. Like I'm sure many people listening can understand.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh yeah. I so for me in my business, I was deemed essential. Um, but that still didn't mean we could not work in houses. We had to work outside of houses. Uh people would vacate the house, we'd come in and fix things. Um, so I was one of the skeleton crew, all the remodeling just uh, but we were in Georgia and we opened up again back to our governor. Thank God he was who he was. Thank you. Yeah, because I was only down really for from March, uh March 16th to Memorial Day. Um wow, that's not too bad. It wasn't uh that was and good. And then and then uh, well, you guys had they're all employees, right? You guys are they 1099 your brothers? They're mostly contractors, yeah. So I had mostly employees. So when I heard, hey, here comes this PPP, we're the government, we're here to help. I'm like, yeah, I've heard that's shipping for and sure enough, I got it. I was like, woohoo, finally, something paid off. But uh that was able that that allowed me to bring a bunch of people back to work early, and then we started cranking, and then we just started running out of people because you couldn't find people in the in the shortage. But yeah, it was a weird time. I know, right back on it's such a wacko time, man. So how long were you guys not able to cut hair or and or two six or seven months? Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, it was hard. And there were there were some moments during there where we're like, are we gonna be out? But you know, I feel like that time of that time of our lives is weird for everybody. But I think what I want to focus on in answering this question is more of the fact that at some point you're going to have a struggle, not like COVID, because hopefully we'll never have that again. But more along the lines of people seeing your success and trying to replicate that and take away a piece of your market. And I think that's the scariest part of business ownership is when in the moment when that happens. Cause I remember when that was happening to us and we were panicked. And the funny part is all those people that tried to do that, they didn't last very long at the end of the day. Because I think you have to stay strong and double down in those moments where you're losing business. Your instinct is, oh, we got to save money, we got to make sure we're cutting this corner or that corner. But I we did the opposite. And I would strongly suggest that other people do that is go all in, like advertise against these people, take a stand and fight the bullies because that's the only way you will survive. And this is your business, this is your livelihood, this is how you feed your family. Like, you can't, it's not for the weak. Like, you have to go out there and fight the fight.

SPEAKER_00:

We're gonna go back to the beginning, right? She lured people in so she could gut them. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you. Excellent. With a smile. Uh with a smile. Uh smiles, yeah. She smiles. So all right, so you sold a Dominican. Now, how many places do you have now? And where are they?

SPEAKER_05:

We have two because we we were looking for another one before COVID. And then I don't know how it is in Atlanta, but in New York, the prices have only just stopped inflating recently. So I'm actually in contract right now with two other locations. I'm not sure we're we're negotiating still, you know, how that can go. We lost one back in March in contract negotiations, but we we've been finding so many this year. This is our like third one that we've been able to get to the contract stage with. So hopefully soon we'll have a bunch.

SPEAKER_00:

So you said something really important. The difference between you and your competition is you it's the ownership and it's your culture that you create. How when you go from two locations where it's a basketball reference, man to man, and then suddenly you get four locations and it's zone. I mean, you can't be in all four places at once. How do you make sure that what made you special and made the customers stay with you instead of going to these fakes? How do you how do you make that happen?

SPEAKER_05:

I'm already in zone defense over here. I'm a football fan, so I understand the reference football-wise, but I'm already in zone defense because my business partner lives in upstate New York, which is about five hours away. So I'm already here with both of these shops on my radar. Um, and so I think adding more is definitely going to be stressful and different. And so I'll have to report back to you on how that goes. But right now, um, how I manage that. And it's funny because someone told me the other day that I'm like a duck, that I look so calm on the on the top side, but underneath I'm like this with my feet going, right? And I think that's the perfect analogy for business ownership because it looks like I'm never working because I'm like, I have a lot of freedom in how I can structure my day. I'm not at the shops all the time. One's open 13 years, one's open eight years. They're very, very established. My they run very like well-oiled machines without me. But I'm always working because I'm always talking to those guys, to all the staff, making sure, looking in on making sure everything is good, talking to the vendors, blah, blah, blah. So I think it will just be more of that. But uh, because the other two are so established, I think that it might be a little bit easier at this stage to keep growing. So then the next two, I'll have to be there more, you know, and make them as established as the first two. And I think that's the hardest part because you're in the trenches in the first couple of years. You got to be there all the time. You got to get the staff acclimated to the way that you run the business, to what you want, set the tone, build a rapport with them, um, build trust, you know. So um that part is hard and it's hard to do with multiple locations, no doubt. So stay tuned for how I accomplished that. All right.

SPEAKER_02:

We're gonna we're staying we're gonna stay tuned. You're gonna have to let us know because I think that's uh that's phenomenal. Um, so I think we're coming to the end. I think we got about 10, 15 more minutes, but um, one of the things I'm really impressed with is your social media vibe and what you do. And so is that a personal outlet? Is that a way for you? Because um, seeing you on Facebook and doing all the stuff you do, I I'm not gonna come up and get my haircut at Mad Men barber shops in Long Island because I'm in Atlanta. So yeah, tell us why you're doing that. Is that part of your social media? Is it a strategy? Is it just an outlet for you?

SPEAKER_05:

It just kind of morphs through the years. Like it that started during COVID because a lot of people didn't have they didn't know what to do with themselves in terms of their business. So I just started talking about my business and what we were doing, and people really liked it. So I was like, oh, people are liking this. I'm here not having much to do. If I can help people, that would make me feel useful in this time where I can't work. So it started out like that. And then it just kind of became it's not, it's not to promote mad men per se, it's just to show people how I live my life. And I guess at this point, well, obviously I've I've written two books, Pivot and Slay and Selfish is a superpower. So I promote those books on there. But mostly I feel like it's therapeutic for me and for the people that follow me. They get inspiration from the way that I live my life. And for me, it's more of um I guess staying accountable. It's a good way for me to stay accountable. Like I'm showing people how what things I'm trying to do this year, which motivates them, which makes me feel good. But then it also motivates me to follow through with all of my goals. So I think it's like a two-way street. It like works as therapy, so so to speak, like in keeping me accountable for things, but also is helping other people learn how to structure their day. Like these little routines that I think are so obvious, like have helped me, and this is just the way I think and live. Other people are like, I never thought of that. And then it kind of makes you realize like we all have something useful to say. And if we can make those connections and, you know, help people along the way, why not? So now that's kind of what my social media has become is just me sharing my life and you know, talking about what I do every day and in in the business and in my personal life.

SPEAKER_00:

Chris is nodding his head, like he's totally vibing with you. And I'm like, there is no way that what you're doing is so that we can keep you accountable. Yo, you do not want to be accountable for anyone.

SPEAKER_02:

How well do I know? She said that I was like, see, Alan, that's what I'm doing with my social media posts. It's like when the Falcons got their ass kicked on Sunday and it took me an hour and a half to get home after that ass kicking. I posted that all over the place. I never got more likes than I have. Like, hey, look at us with the trusted toolbox. Don't be scary, don't wheel it in your house. No, but that that one got a lot of likes because I was smoking mad. Oh my God.

SPEAKER_05:

So it's funny. Yeah, so it's funny because I think social media is weird. Like, if you have a business that you can create revenue through social media, that's great. I don't. Um, my business, like you said, is more localized. Um but I I feel like sometimes when you're just being you, that's when the people connect with you the most. Whether you can monetize it or not is a different story, but I'm really not on there for that.

SPEAKER_02:

Me neither, Alan. I we can't handle that. But stop, Alan. Please. If we're talking to a lady, please. I mean, she's a lawyer, she's gonna gut you. She's from New York. Yeah, that worse. Oh, yeah. She's probably she said she died.

SPEAKER_05:

I didn't even register that as anything important. Did you see that? I'm like, yeah, that's just a Tuesday over here.

SPEAKER_00:

Where in your spare time did you decide? You know what? I'm gonna write a book. No, wait a minute, two.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, I have I had a lot of emotion to process, I think is how it started. Again, during COVID, I had a lot, I love writing. I've written since I'm a little girl. I love it so much. It just helps me see things and connections in my life and understand myself. And when I was home during COVID, I really needed to feel like I was being productive. And I thought, if all these people are interested in understanding my business, why don't I just tell them like how I did it and what I did and how it felt and all of those things. And so I just started writing and it just poured out of me. And during that whole process, I realized like, if this book didn't sell one single copy, it was still one of the best things I did because I saw my life out there and I just made all these connections that I hadn't previously seen about who I was and who I've become and how that transformed and all the little things that happened along the way that were part of that transformation. And then I started talking a lot after that book about the fact that I'm a I parent my children by myself because, like I said, my ex-husband lives um upstate. So I'm here with them all the time. And how do I balance that and business ownership and um and you know, continuing to make myself a priority? And so then I wrote a book about that too, and it helped me see even more parts of myself that I hadn't understood before. So it wasn't really about spare time because I don't really have a lot of that. But I think for me, it was more of like letting all of that out of me, all the things I've been wanting to say and just kind of like getting it out on the paper. It really, it just helped me grow as a person. And if it helps someone else along the way, then that's even greater.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, but say even if you don't have a book in you. I mean, journaling, we talked about this, you know, is a great technique as well. Um, you know, uh I wrote my book just because I kept joking about it, I kept joking about it, and somebody said, Um, you know, those sound pretty good. I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna do it. Um, and so uh for me, I'm not a writer. Uh I'm an engineer twice over and uh not good at it. And that's why I didn't get some help. But um I agree with you because that pro you can process a lot and you can also do some self-reflection. Whatever it is for you, maybe, maybe you guys, maybe you're not a writer, but um, finding that that path is definitely helpful.

SPEAKER_00:

Who who have you found has resonated with your book?

SPEAKER_05:

What type of person you mean? Yeah. Well, I think my second book, Selfishness as a superpower, really resonates with entrepreneurial women because balancing, and you and you even said like your wives had a lot of similar stuff to say, you know, during the business process. I think it's something women don't talk about because it makes us feel weak, you know, that we don't we have this innate drive to be a mom at the same time as our as we're driven to a career. And I don't know that it's necessarily something men can a hundred percent understand. And so to fit into that business world, we push that part of us away. And I thought it was really important to tell people like, no, like sometimes that sucks. Like, I didn't want to be a stay-at-home mom, but I didn't want to leave my kids and prioritize my career. And what is what exactly does that make me then? Am I a career-driven woman or am I a parent? Why can't I be both? How do I become both? How do I continue to be a wife along the way? How do I continue to stay Jessica Dennehy? Like, how do you do this? And it's like four different parts of you trying to meld into one human being. And so I think the people who women who have businesses or even just really high-powered careers really resonated with that. Um, because the the solution for me was to carve time out of my job and my kids and my marriage to work on myself. And I don't think that is seemingly logical when you're like, I don't spend enough time with my kids or at work or with my husband. What should I do? Oh, take more time away to be by yourself. That doesn't seem to make any sense. But at the end of the day, if I'm not me, how am I giving any valuable to any of these facets of my life? And it took me too long to understand that. So if I can shorten anyone else's journey and get there faster for them, I I hope I I hope I can do that. That is my goal is to help them do that um so that they don't waste time like I did figuring it out.

SPEAKER_02:

No, yeah, you know, I it's funny you say don't waste time. I use that line a lot, and my mentor usually says, Chris is not wasting time if you're learning from it, right? As long as you're self-respect self-respect and self-introspection to come back. But all right, let's talk a little bit about this because uh they're 13 and 10. And um uh so my wife started traveling a ton when my daughter became a teenager. And it was her and me. Me and her she's 27 now. She won. Oh yeah, she definitely won. It is hard raising a strong, independent will girl. But she's 27 now, and she's coming home uh in a couple days as well. So I'll see her. Uh oh, awesome. Yeah. But um, as you go through that, I yeah, I uh I had to be Mr. Mom doing the same thing because uh as I realize now I was trapped in my wife, making her have to travel all over the world. Uh India, you know, Europe, and the whole thing. It was up to me to you know get the kids over where they had to be. And but I had the girl in uh high school. So here's the good news you got, Jessica. Um, they really don't want to see you in high school. Yeah. So you're gonna have more time coming soon. What's going on? Not kidding. I'm sure you're gonna have a better relationship. But she was tough in high school and she came around, and uh the the problem is she's just like me. And I mean, that's she she's she's my sports lover, she's uh very passionate. She's going to PA school, just about to finish up. So um I have continued success. I'm sure your daughter's gonna be incredibly successful. Can continued success to you as you expand. But we gotta go, Alan. Thank you. Before we do this, we've gotta talk about the final four questions, and we're gonna pump these books. Pivot and select self as a superpower. Number one, what's a book you'd recommend to our audience that's not yours?

SPEAKER_05:

The untethered soul. It's about people who try to control everything like I used to, and how you can let go of that control because it's really not control at all, because you can't control anything. It's really who's the author on that? Michael Singer.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. Untethered soul. I'm gonna bet you don't read that.

SPEAKER_05:

All right, it's a little woo-woo. I'm just gonna warn you, it's a little woo-woo. It is.

SPEAKER_02:

I can't do woo-woo. I mean, I can't do woo-woo. I mean, I watch, I watch rom-com. Shut up, Alan. Get back to me, please. My God. Alan, please stop talking. You know what? You're on mute now. You're done. You can't talk. All right. Is that control? Jessica, was that? I don't know. A little bit. A little bit. Comes close. You know, uh, we just had a recommendation to read the um Never Split the Difference by Chris Foss.

SPEAKER_05:

Oh, yeah, I've read that.

SPEAKER_02:

Not only did I I listened to it. On what speed? Uh 1.5. Okay. Uh that's the only way I can do it. Yeah, I did. I got well, actually, here's the deal. I made it a book club for my sales guys. This book is phenomenal.

SPEAKER_05:

That's like one of the number one sales books.

SPEAKER_02:

Holy crap. Oh my god, this book was like mind-melding stuff. And so now I've got my uh my sales guys. We just had our first two chapters this morning, and I'm rereading the book with them, and then we all got copies of the book, and I'm annotating with them and doing the whole thing. So I'm doing it again. Phenomenal. And you know, uh, it's just listening to how he does things. I look back on all the sales text. You've redirected. She was talking about untethering and letting go. All right, untethered. All right, sorry. But I was just I was establishing control. Yeah, that was bad. Oh shit. Oh my god. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05:

You need this book, I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_02:

Shoot it. Yeah. I'm I'm actually texting my belly books right now. I need an emergency session. Shit. All right, all right, okay, let's go. What's the favorite feature of your home?

SPEAKER_05:

Ooh, I just redid my kitchen. So I'm gonna say my kitchen because is that where you're watching it right now? Yeah, well, this is the dining room behind me, and the kitchen's in front of me.

SPEAKER_02:

So what did you do to the kitchen? Because I see the glass cabinets. I like how you placed everything. Very well done. And I like the colors.

SPEAKER_05:

Thank you. It used to be a galley kitchen, so I opened up the wall between the um kitchen and the dining room and made it like an open concept. But the best part is I love the color blue because it's very calming. And I saw this blue stove and I made the whole kitchen around the stove.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, very cool. Is it a European stove or a local?

SPEAKER_05:

Yes, it is, and it's got the matching blue hood.

SPEAKER_02:

So now it's my favorite feature. You better be very proud of that one because I love it. They're very proud of it when they sell it to you. Oh, I'm sure. I I know I know that number. No, that's awesome. Okay, that's great. All right. You ready? Go. We're kind of customer service freaks. Thank you. What's a customer service pet peeve of yours when you're out there and you're the customer?

SPEAKER_05:

When I'm the customer? Ooh, that's hard because I really don't like to talk to people when I'm the customer.

SPEAKER_02:

So you'd rather not, you'd rather have people come up and go, ma'am, you can just type in your order and we'll come back and give you the food.

SPEAKER_05:

Honestly, yeah, because I I am so overstimulated between all the barbers and having to service my own customers and then coming home to the girls that when I'm out and about, I'm kind of antisocial.

SPEAKER_00:

So you're an introvert, aren't you?

SPEAKER_05:

But no, I really am an introvert.

SPEAKER_00:

No, no way. She's an introvert who has to be act like an extrovert in her business. Correct.

SPEAKER_05:

I get very dreamed. In my extrovertedness. But I could pull it off. But so I guess um when someone is too chatty with me as a customer, I get frustrated because I'm like, please stop talking to me. I don't want to pretend to be into this right now. That was so awesome.

SPEAKER_02:

Where I just go completely not going, thank you for talking to me. I go yay! I had two hours before this podcast. I would not. Yeah. But but I was like, I had two hours before this where I ended up getting back to the house because that's where we do the podcast. And I was supposed to have two meetings in a row, and both of them canceled, and I'm here at the house by myself. And when Alan showed up, I was literally almost falling asleep because I was so like, oh my god, I need to talk to people.

SPEAKER_00:

No, it's gives me weird exact opposite.

SPEAKER_05:

And I would be like, Oh, the house is so quiet. I love this. I feel so relaxed right now.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, you guys gotta be kidding me. Oh no, it just drives me insane. Maybe they'll cancel. I hate painting. Maybe you won't come over. My kids even know. They're like, uh-oh, dad's home alone. We better call, we better text him. No, it can't be killed.

SPEAKER_00:

They need what do they call it? A mobile hanging up above these. It's kind of bad. I do.

unknown:

All right.

SPEAKER_02:

All right, Jessica, you you've you've said it before. You're a single mom, you're working home. I don't want to hear about contractor nightmare stories because I live them every day. That's what I do. Um, I'm not a contractor nightmare. Just give me three more days. I can do it. Um, what is a DIY nightmare story of yours?

SPEAKER_05:

Did you ever any story where I'm doing it myself is a nightmare for me. Like, I have absolutely zero handyman in me. Like, I I need help, guys. Like, I can't hardly do anything around the house by myself like that. Like, but I guess I'll say this. My kids, who I love very dearly, begged me to decorate the house outside for Christmas, which I don't know how to do. So I tried to hire someone, but it was so expensive. And I was just like, you know, I don't really want to spend this much money on it. It's something that's gonna be up for four weeks. Like, I I can't do that. So I'm a I'm a big person who likes I spend money where I know I'll enjoy it, even if it makes no sense to anyone else. And I wouldn't enjoy this enough. So anyway, I go to Home Depot and I buy all the things and I'm outside. Now it took them 11 years to ask me to do this, so I knew I had to bring it. I'm freaking outside and the the ground is frozen and the lights are tangled and they're not plugging in. And I have literally my I, my ivy, is it Holly, Holly plant like completely? It looks like I had 10 cats scratching me up, and I just want to cry. I just want to cry. It was terrible. It looked like a five-year-old did it, and it took me forever, and it wasn't even nice, and that was a nightmare for me. I had zero, I didn't enjoy it at all.

SPEAKER_02:

She didn't burn anything down, she didn't flip anything, but you know what? I feel for her because if you've ever had a hollybush sticking you in the back where you're trying to do some work around the house and die up, I mean, it is like it hit you in the exact right spot where it's not accurate, brother. It's like a hundred percent needles just sticking you to death.

SPEAKER_00:

Now, do the kids like it?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, they loved it, they loved it. And now, but you know what? Not have to do it again this year. I've not seen anybody again, but I learned a little bit. I learned that not all the plugs fit each other, so I have to plan it out beforehand. I didn't know that, so I did the whole thing and then they didn't match. I also learned that I can wear protective gloves and stuff like that when I'm outside. And the third thing I learned is do it on a day that it's hot because otherwise the ground is frozen and that makes your life even more miserable.

SPEAKER_00:

So usually right after Thanksgiving is a good time. You're right.

SPEAKER_05:

I'm gonna apply it.

SPEAKER_00:

I'll give you one freebie. Have a couple extra boxes of lights.

SPEAKER_02:

Always find the lights. And don't even count on these suckers working again this year. Yeah, that's right. Just find me. It's true.

SPEAKER_05:

And also maybe have a drink before.

SPEAKER_02:

Very Christmas cheer. Yeah, and just the letter, which I've done that before.

SPEAKER_01:

So anyway, not about me. No, Jessica.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm untethering. All right, Jessica, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Pivot and Slade, Jessica Dennehy. We're gonna put her all in the notes. Uh, Mad Men Barbershops. You're in Long Island. Go get yourself, go treat yourself a little bit, man. Fix it up, you know, get a little shave here, a little tuck there, maybe a little fryer. Is that the name of them? Mad Men Barbershop. Is it really? It is. Oh, that's badass. It is badass. You mentioned earlier. Mad Men Barbershop. I thought she was to the show.

SPEAKER_05:

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, this has been awesome. Thank you so much. Hey, if you didn't learn something, that's on you. If you think you're a dude and you didn't learn something off a chick, you're wrong, brother, because you are not the smarter sex. We all know we're morons. So go learn something today. Go get better. Let's make it a great week, and we'll see you next week on the podcast. Cheers, everybody. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Small Business Safari. Remember, your positive attitude will help you achieve that higher altitude you're looking for in a wild world of small business ownership. Until next time, make it a great day.

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Chris Lalomia

Host
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Alan Wyatt

Co-host