The Small Business Safari
Have you ever sat there and wondered "What am I doing here stuck in the concrete zoo of the corporate world?" Are you itching to get out? Chris Lalomia and his co-host Alan Wyatt traverse the jungle of entrepreneurship. Together they share their stories and help you explore the wild world of SCALING your business. With many years of owning their own small businesses, they love to give insight to the aspiring entrepreneur. So, are you ready to make the jump?
The Small Business Safari
Wicked Smart Real Estate, No Banks Required
What happens when an investor swears off banks, personal guarantees, and risky one-and-done deals? Chris Prefontaine rebuilt from the 2008 crash by creating a bank-free model that produces cash now, cash monthly, and cash at exit.
Summary:
Chris Prefontaine, founder of Smart Real Estate Coach, shares how losing everything in 2008 forced him to rewrite the rules of real estate. He now buys through owner financing and subject-to deals, prioritizes principal-only terms, and structures every transaction around his trademark “three paydays.” We unpack his lead-gen engines, VA-driven metrics, airtight legal processes, and why his coaching model includes revenue-share and real in-the-trenches support. This episode is packed with practical takeaways on scaling, staying safe legally, and building a legacy business with grit, patience, and clear expectations.
🎥 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheSmallBusinessSafari
💡 GOLD NUGGETS
• Setting new rules after losing everything in 2008
• Buying without banks: owner financing & subject-to explained
• Why principal-only terms matter more than price
• The three paydays and how each creates predictable income
• Lead gen from expired, FSBO, FRBO, and free-and-clear lists
• How VAs drive outreach, metrics, and conversion consistency
• Legal must-haves and choosing the right attorneys
• Coaching that includes revenue-share and deal support
• Building a family-run team and long-term legacy
• Who succeeds: grit, patience, and realistic timelines
🔗 Guest Links
• Free Books: https://wickedsmartbooks.com/safari
• Smart Real Estate Coach: https://smartrealestatecoach.com
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisprefontaine/
🌍 Follow The Small Business Safari
• Instagram | @smallbusinesssafaripodcast
• LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrislalomia/
• Website | https://chrislalomia.com
From the Zoo to Wild is a book for entrepreneurs passionate about home services, looking to move away from corporate jobs. Chris Lalomia, a former executive, shares his path, discoveries, and tools to succeed as a small business owner in home improvement retail. The book provides the mindset, habits, leadership style, and customer-oriented processes necessary to succeed as a small business owner in home services.
We do today. And then that led up to the crash of 08. I call it the debacle of my book. But that the entire crash was the impetus to what we are today. Because that I was my head was in the sand for four years because we got wrecked. But when I came out of that, and everybody started saying, you know, get your head out of your butt, you got to get it back to work. I just set up sort of like new rules. No banks, no putting my name on personal guarantees, no using gobs and mail money, and no more kind of like doing one deal get paid, one deal get paid, like that transactional world. So those criteria led to buying and selling creatively only. And it led to us trademarking the three paydays, which is different ways to get paid. So just that was an ugly four years, uh, eight to twelve, two thousand eight to two thousand twelve. But that then organically this all happened. I mean, my kids joined me. Um, none of that was planned. Now they've they've really been instrumental in scaling the company the way it has, hitting 5,000 and all that.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, he makes he makes it sound so easy. But by the way, he said built some homes. How many homes did you build?
SPEAKER_00:Uh early 90s, he built a hundred plus homes. What we would do, I I was naive then, I was in my 20s, so I didn't know it was creative real estate then. But we would find landowners um who weren't selling like single lots, just like onesie twosies, and we'd say, Hey, we'll get you your price, but here's how we're gonna do it. We're gonna advertise with a builder, a final package, like a complete home. Once we find our buyer, we'll then build the home. Then you'll get paid at the end when the buyer gets financing. Now, again, I I don't even know if I would attempt that today, but but the market was such that they said yes. All the subcontractors waited until the end of that process, like it was quite a thing we had going on. Uh, we did that for several years.
SPEAKER_01:No way. So you got subs, framers, uh, foundation builders, signings, drywall, all these guys say, hey, look, you're not gonna get paid until I sell this thing. Probably gonna be about six months. Welcome to the Small Business Safari, where I help guide you to avoid those traps, pitfalls, and dangers that lurk when navigating the wild world of small business ownership. I'll share those gold nuggets of information and invite guests to help accelerate your extent to that mountaintop of success. It's a jungle out there, and I want to help you diverse to the levels of owning your own business that can get you bogged down and distract you from hitting your own personal and professional goals. So strap in adventure team and let's take a ride through the safari that get you to mountain. Alan, never get distracted, never get out of source. Always gotta stay on the focus, gotta stay focused, never have a problem. I'm unflappable, I'm like that duck on the water, my friend.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, you inspire me with just how prepared you are and ahead of the game you are on everything.
SPEAKER_01:Nothing. Guys, you're driving around in your trucks, and I'm let me tell you, uh, this is like you've ever just you're driving in your truck and you just whip right through a red light and you realize you just did that, and you get all the sorts, so you run through another one and you keep on rolling and just keep going. That's exactly how this uh this has gone like 15 minutes before this episode. I thought I had something all figured out, thought I was in the know, thought I did everything correctly. And there's a deadline, and there's a deadline that says, Hey, um, you guys within the next 45 minutes, you've got to uh sign up for the chamber if you want to be on the board. And I'm just like, Well, well, I got a podcast to do, man. I got I got I got somebody I gotta really talk to, man. It's got a great first name, by the way. Um, and so we got to do that. And I said, So uh Alan just asked for forgiveness. Said, is there any way that Chris could have a push on the deadline? Because we have got to do this very important podcast. And I just got the answer. And pure. So you can relax. All right, don't run through any more red lights, everybody. Stay focused on what we're doing here, right? We gotta stay focused, we gotta keep going, keep moving it up. Um, so let's um let's jump into it. Usually we talk about big daddy talk, but I the only thing I did is I had the kids come home, and what'd they do again? Hey, dad, any more money? Of course you do.
SPEAKER_02:And they drank all your bourbon.
SPEAKER_01:And they drank all my bourbon. I'm not happy about that. My daughter was was knocking back Faldark and Stormies, my friends. That's apple cider, bourbon, and lemon juice with a little cinnamon flavor in it. Uh, and they went down a little too easy for Sydney, not me. Your daughter under the bus. That's right. Hey, she doesn't listen to stew better. Yeah, that's right. That's why we do it. All right, guys. We got a uh a really unique episode compared to what we always talk about. We're gonna be running up Alan's uh Alan's line of business talking about real estate and all that stuff that's gonna be cool and about coaching and all that stuff. We got Chris Prefontaine on from Rhode Island, and once you get to hear him, you're gonna understand what wicked smart sounds like. We're gonna park some cars. We love it, we love the accent.
SPEAKER_00:Hey Chris, welcome to the show, buddy. Uh thanks, guys. I gotta get you guys some gear. That's what I think it went out, but not in time for the show. So we'll get you. Oh, I love it.
SPEAKER_01:Do we get a wicked smart shirt? You do. Nice. I'm excited. Nice. All right, Chris, tell us a little bit about what you do and how you let's talk about what you do today. Then we're gonna back up and how the hell you got into this stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. So today we are um we still do our own properties. When I say we family company, my son and I and son-in-law, we buy and sell without banks, meaning uh we buy everything creatively, so no cash, no credit, no taking bank loans. Um, and then we coach. Uh so the Wicked Smart companies coach all over and mentor all over North America, mostly US. We're in about 80 markets. So when I say we coach, uh the differentiator here is we do deals in the trenches with students, far different than here's a course, good luck, and then all the stuff happens and life happens, then how to do it. So we actually revenue share on deals all around the country. Uh that way they're learning and doing interaction while they're doing deals, best way to learn. So that's kind of like the snippet of what we do today.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that is. I think, like I said, that's gonna be a really unique topic. I think for everything we've been doing, we've been doing it for four years and a half now. I hope unique is good. It is. I am I'm pumped because uh obviously we're all gonna learn something about uh all that.
SPEAKER_02:We tend to focus on home services, and I like it when we have somebody who's not. Not no offense to the folks in home services, but it's just kind of fun when we have somebody in a different industry, or we've had authors, we've had economists, we've had all kinds of people on. But this is gonna be good, it's still a great business story.
SPEAKER_01:And for those of you guys who got offended, that's Chris at the trusted toolbox.com. Just start with Alan. Yeah, start F Allen with subject sound fallen, and I'll take care of from there for you guys. I'll slap him around. So again, Chris, how did you guys how did you get into this? Has this always been a real estate thing? Have you always been doing this? Uh tell us a little bit about how you arked into all that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. So I'm gonna use myself here, but I've been at this since 91. So 34 years. Um, I grew up in a family business, nothing to do with real estate. It was a welding supply business and industrial gases, but my father bought his own building, he built his own buildings and or bought them and then leased them back to his company. I remember being like, I don't know, 10 years old, trying to figure that one out. Like he was the same person and get how that works. Now, obviously, in hindsight, I get it. So he built them, leased them to his companies, and then he would hang out with real estate people. He just did like on the side. So I was around that at an early age. So when he sold his company in '91, I lasted about three months and they fired me. I was supposed to be there for a bit as a general manager. They fired me. My kids were like two and three. So I had zero income coming in in about a week. Luckily, had some real estate going on on the side, uh, building some homes. After that, did a brokerage. After that, coached uh realtors, not investors, like we do today. And then that led up to the crash of 08. I call it the debacle in my book. But that the entire crash was the impetus to what we are today. Because that I was my head was in the sand for four years because we got wrecked. But when I came out of that, and everybody started saying, you know, get your head out of your butt, you got to get it back to work. I just set up sort of like new rules. No banks, no putting my name on personal guarantees, no using gobs of my own money, and no more kind of like doing one deal get paid, one deal get paid, like that transactional world. So those criteria led to buying and selling creatively only, and it led to us trademarking the three paydays, which is different ways to get paid. So just that was an ugly four years, uh, eight to twelve, two thousand eight to two twel. But that then organically this all happened. I mean, my kids joined me. Um, none of that was planned. And now they've they've really been instrumental in scaling the company the way it has, hitting 5,000 and all that.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, he makes he makes it sound so easy. But by the way, he said built some homes. How many homes did you build?
SPEAKER_00:Uh, early 90s, we built a hundred plus homes. What we would do, I I was naive then, I was in my 20s, so I didn't know it was creative real estate then. But we would find landowners um who weren't selling like single lots, just like onesie twosies, and we'd say, Hey, we'll get you your price, but here's how we're gonna do it we're gonna advertise with a builder, a final package, like a complete home. Once we find our buyer, we'll then build the home. Then you'll get paid at the end when the buyer gets financing. Now, again, I I don't even know if I would attempt that today, but but the market was such that they said yes. All of a sudden, contractors waited until the end of that process. Like it was quite a thing we had going on. Uh, we did that for several years.
SPEAKER_01:No way. So you got subs, framers, uh, foundation builders, siding, drywall, all these guys say, Hey, look, you're not gonna get paid until I sell this thing. Probably gonna be about six months.
SPEAKER_00:They're like, Okay. Actually, there were cookie cutters, Chris. So it was like, yes, but it the time frame we flew. We were like, I mean, some maybe went six, but most of the time it was like 100 to 120 days. We would just boom, boom, boom. Oh, okay. Not me. My I had no experience building. My partner, Joe, was a builder, so I kind of found the land and he built the homes and we developed some systems and did that. That you know, that came to kind of a screeching halt. We got a little cocky. Oh, this is working great. So around 94-ish, 95, we started taking on subdivisions. Well, that was a that was a headache and a lesson there because it's a whole different world, yeah. Right, can't do that now. You can't wait for the can't people can't wait.
SPEAKER_01:Obviously, man, we've we've only been at we had this for like five minutes you already figured out. This guy knows what the hell's going on. He's been through enough, and you've you've you got you got the four-year bruise to feel it, and you still remember it. Uh, because we both remember 08.
SPEAKER_02:No, I don't remember it at all. Right. Well, that's you don't want to remember it, right?
SPEAKER_01:No, uh-huh. You know, it's funny when you talk to younger people about five years, you know, talking to younger people get into business and uh you start saying, Do you remember 08? And they say, Yeah. I'm like, all right, well, were you in high school then? Yeah. I said, Did you feel it like we felt it, brother? Because we're what has happened is your parents just sit there freaking the F out because they thought, I'm not sure you're gonna be able to eat tomorrow, buddy.
SPEAKER_00:There's some lessons there too. Like, there's people when I started the coaching, this side of the coaching in 13, 13, 14, there were probably less than 10 competitors. Like I knew who they were. If you called me and you're looking at our our program, I'd say, here's how we're different. It'd be easy. There's 200 now, like we're in a mastermind group of 200 of them. And to the 08 story, there's a lot of them that started way after 08. They haven't seen like some major things that it's scary. I mean, but they're out there coaching.
SPEAKER_01:Now that's the that is let's talk about that. I think that's a big lesson. And um, I know we both are big believers in coaching. Al and I we've talked about that over the years, and you know, I think situational coaching is good. You know, I've I've had coaches over the years. I'm part of a mastermind group that you mentioned. But would I really want to go with somebody? I I don't care how smart you are, but if you haven't been through the wars like you have, I mean because even the even the 90s, I mean, when you were doing that, I mean, you know, people today, you know, in our world, we're always impacted by the uh mortgage rates, you know, and I I hear people saying, Well, I'm gonna wait till they get under five. I'm like, well, you're gonna be waiting until you're 40. I'm at this point. I mean, you're that those numbers are probably not gonna be seen for a long time, my friend.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and if you know creative real estate, the rate thing is you bring up like huge points. Because if you know creative real estate, you don't care. You frankly don't care what the rates are doing because you're gonna you're gonna be up, down, a sideways market, you're okay. You because you're buying creatively and you're selling creatively. I I because they've eliminated the banks.
SPEAKER_02:I know, I love that. Yeah, well, and the funny thing is as you hear about these things, and what I was excited to have you on the podcast. I'm in commercial real estate, but uh, I mean, I'm like, does that really work? And obviously, you figured out a way to make it work.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you can do commercial too. I mean, I we bought our mixed-use building, uh gosh, 18. We bought it. Um, fully owner finance. And you know, you you're in commercial, like you go to get a loan nowadays, they get their microscope places you did they don't need to be having a microscope, and it takes forever with a big down payment. Um, we did a deal with a with a very savvy, experienced building owner who wanted owner financing for estate planning and tax reasons, like he was seeking that. And the realtors were bringing him offers. He said, Chris, I don't understand. I it's not what I want. I don't want a cash offer, I want owner financing. Um, so they're out there. That was a free and clear property, which I love dealing with.
SPEAKER_01:So let's talk about some of the the do's and don'ts.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, you you talk about creative, uh well, and uh and it'll be interesting to hear what he has to say because I'm sure he doesn't want to tell how the sausage is made.
SPEAKER_01:So I'm gonna say you could probably tell us everything, and I think what we'll find out at the end of this thing is yeah, I mean he might have told you everything, but that don't mean you know what you're doing. I mean, you just talked about one of the things that makes you unique is you actually get in the trenches and do a deal with people. I think that's where you really don't go to a seminar over the weekend and then come out and buy ugly houses and and decide to flip. I mean, I think that's where you see.
SPEAKER_02:Is that what most people are doing? Is is that are they flipping them or are they acquiring to for rental properties?
SPEAKER_00:Most seminars are gonna teach today, uh teaching wholesale, fix and flip. Uh, there is a buy and hold slash refinance and buying more strategy out there, but those are the three main seminars. And to Chris's point, like this is what they're teaching. So, unfortunately, by the time I get some people, they hear my podcast or whatever, and they'll go, Yeah, I already tried this, this, and this, and I feel. Well, that's because they're all yelling get rich quick, and they they try it for 60 days. It's real estate. You need more than 60 days, you need three years to figure this out, right? Not to do a deal, but to figure it out and get good at it. So, yeah, that's that's also a challenge out there right now.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well done. So I I'd say let you let's get into it. Let's talk about some of the do's and don'ts.
SPEAKER_00:Um, well, we hit one with the with the who you follow, right? From a coaching standpoint, that's huge. And and you and I talked about real estate experience, but also like life experience, like you know, COVID, everybody went through, but my son had an accident back in, gosh, when was this now? Oh three. Well, I was in real estate, then I had to like navigate that, like just life experiences and and economic experiences. So when you look out for someone, just make sure that a the niche is what you want, but b, the person or group or persons kind of aligned with you, right? Value-wise, experience-wise, all that that's important. And then I another don't would be this because I learned the hard way. There, I still get calls every week going, Yeah, yeah, I get good credit. So I'm gonna go to the bank, and this bank will give me four loans. And I say, Why? What like why risk all your personal assets when you don't have to? Once you figure that out. I didn't know that for the my first 17 years. I was doing it conventionally um until I get beat up. And I said, Well, that's not worth it. The bank has to do their job if you default, or the market changes, right? Or they change their rules on their lines of credit and they want to call your loans. All that keeps me up at night, so I don't just don't do anymore. So I say to people, don't sign personally on bank loans unless it's a personal residence and you go, Hey, I gotta be in this neighborhood for the school system, and I can't find a creative deal. Okay, there's except exceptions, but by and large, don't sign on personal loans, there's no reason to in real estate.
SPEAKER_01:So, how do I find creative? Give me give me an example of a creative situation other than the owner, but the owner financing one was a good one because that makes sense. I mean, if the guy buys on you, he buy, you know, he's buying that you guys are going to keep operating and paying him back. He's got his great annuity spread out over time for tax purposes. We're supposed to be default, then he just keeps his house and has your money. He's got it back, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Has all the all the money paid. Well, let me just touch on that and then I'll give you the other two ways. So, so owner financing, um a number of ways to do it, but we focus primarily on free and clear properties, like the building I I mentioned, because the free and clear owner usually is off market, they're usually not stressed out about money, or they would have presumably pulled out of the property, right? So they're a much different conversation. They want the best price, like the building owner, and they just don't mind taking it over time. They're not like I gotta have this tomorrow to go do this, right? So that's why we like free and clear. And most residential deals that mixed use. We did a little bit of a hybrid deal, but most residential deals we do no interest. So if I give you your price, call it half a million dollars for a house, I'm making monthly payments of principal only until some balloon date in the future because you got your price. I just get kind of like the term. Um, and you can mix that up and do some interest, some principal phase it out. But that is one of my favorite. The other two ways we buy one is subject to existing financing, been around forever. I buy your house, loan stays in your name, you're the guarantor still, only I own the property. We put it in a trust to do it properly. There's ways to do it, so you don't trigger what's called the do-on-sale calls with the bank when it transfers. Very so without getting into legal, and I'm not an attorney. Let's be careful with how we do that and who we do it with. But we're getting properties right now, as are the community members, two, three, four percent back from when those loans are being done. We're buying those houses now, so that the loan stays in place. It's two, three, four, five percent. To your point earlier, we're not seeing those new rates anymore. So you get to grab properties. Florida's like rampant now for that because the market suck and wind, sellers are are panicky. Um, fortunate for us, unfortunate for them, that they that they think that that's the end of the world, it's not. But they a lot of those loans they want to dump are two, three, four percent. So we just take over payments.
SPEAKER_01:So you take over, but you've got to have it uh bound correctly. That was the one thing I kind of missed.
SPEAKER_00:It's gonna be paper correctly, yeah. The right attorney that does these because that's what other students get themselves in trouble. Is they go to attorneys that never did a what's called a sub two subject to existing financing, and they get themselves in trouble.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think again, that's one of the things he can say it on a podcast, he can say it to your blue in the face, but uh now what are you gonna do? Well, I'm gonna go get my buddy to put this all together for me. Yeah, he knows nope.
SPEAKER_00:I don't think so. Yeah, because I know him or because family or whatever the wrong way to go. There's attorneys that have done tens of thousands of these the right way. That's who you go see.
SPEAKER_02:Smart. Did I hear you right that you said that you the owner financing deals are zero interest?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, most, if not all, residential single families, and then the building he this guy was a big landowner, and he and I told him principal only, he almost fell off his chair. But what we ended up coming together with is I said, Okay, Alan, I'll do 18 months of principal only, then we'll take that balance and we'll amortize it over the rate you were looking for. And he was good with that because it was kind of a win-win. But houses, yeah, principal only.
SPEAKER_01:So no interest whatsoever. But this is one where they got the house, and you guys, this is I'm assuming these houses are off market, so you guys just decide where this number is going to be. And so maybe it maybe it isn't market value, maybe a little higher than market value, maybe market value or higher, sure. Yeah, and so then you call it principle only there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, picture it. Like, uh let me give you an example instead of just theory. So a Plymouth Mass, Cape Cod, beautiful house in the water up on a bluff, open ocean. This woman, because we're always trying to solve problems, right? We're not trying to convince anyone. This woman uh was a relative in Boston, couldn't sell her own house for the price she wanted. Come to find out it's because she has a sick mom in the house and wanted to stay there a little longer. Well, most buyers buying for themselves go, No, I if I buy it, I want to I don't want you to rent back, I want to keep it, right? So we we let her stay there for a little while, but but the point of the story is it was principal only$2,500 a month on a million dollar home,$960 something. And her her and her mom stayed there for, I don't know, two or three years. And then we took it over, but every single month,$2,500 was coming off of principal.$30,000 a year coming off of principal. So what did you do with that property after that? Then then you go and sell it, or uh we typically put a rent-owned buyer in there that needs time because there's a big um like it's enormous now. COVID drove it higher, but people like leaving corporate America and starting their own business, they're not bankable for two years. Banks call it seasoning. So so they go to buy and the bank goes, Oh no, we need two years. So we put them in the home, rent-owned, while they get mortgage ready. And in the case of that ocean front, we let her and her mom stay there. For every month they stayed there, we didn't make the$2,500 payment, but they credited$2,500 because they got to live there.
SPEAKER_01:And that's where that's what I was gonna ask. So that's where the creative part works. They didn't pay you$2,500 to live there, but you didn't pay them$2,500 towards the principal. And when they were ready to go, then we just deducted the amount uh that was due every month. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Huh.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting.
SPEAKER_00:That was unique because she was a real survey. He looks at me and goes, Why did she do it? Because she had a problem. She wanted to live there with her mom who was sick for it. Nobody, like, if you just solve for the problem, right? And if you can't, let me talk about who we can't buy from. You like they need the money now to go buy something else, or they're doing a 1031 exchange, or like they can't wait for their equity. Okay, then I'm not your buyer, it's okay. There's plenty of deals out there.
unknown:All right.
SPEAKER_01:So in your coaching, uh, one of the things you talk about is is is doing the deal. How do you attract those kind of deals? How do you find those kind of deals and and and forage for them?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, most uh students can accomplish their goals by we have a service that pulls expired listings they didn't sell with a realtor for sale by owners trying to sell on their own, and for rent by owner, those three categories usually provide enough leads depending on what market the student is in to accomplish their goals. And I say that because our deals with the three paydays are pretty lucrative, like around the country, low of 45 grand to high of 350 grand per deal, all three paydays. There's they're big deals, it's not like someone has to go out and do 50 deals, right? They if they do a handful, they've probably leave their J O B. So that's one service. And then I like free and clear, like we've been talking about. So you can just buy that list, and you can have virtual assistants call that list. So we're not doing the initial call either. We just have virtual assistants who have been trained, call that free and clear list, see if they are interested in or open to selling.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting. Yeah, all right. So you sold that for your students, that's pretty cool. Three paydays.
SPEAKER_02:Can you give us an overview on that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So remember how that was born. I I I came out of the crash and I was like, man, like I feel like it's on a treadmill every January, right? Do a deal, get paid, build a house, get paid. When I was a realtor, sell a house, get paid. It just was like a treadmill. So the three paydays are sort of like if the three of us were gonna start a business, it's a great entrepreneurial model because it's now money, and I'll explain what I mean. Then it's monthly money, and then it's long-term cash out. And how the house works is when we put that buyer in the house, remember who needs time because they just started their own business, they come up with a down payment. So at the beginning of the deal, that's non-refundable. Average for our family team, 20, let's call it 25 grand. I'm averaging down. Then the second I put them in that, I'm paying that seller something, say on that ocean front home, it was 2500, but I'm collecting something more from that we call it a tenant buyer while they're looking to get financing. So let's say I think that one was four grand. So$1,500 a month now. I get the upfront, then I get the$1,500 a month spread between what I'm paying the seller and what I'm paying for. Payday two is the spread. Yep. Payday three is really cool because remember all that principal pay down? Payday three is I marked the price up a little bit, like that house we sold for one, two fifty, I think it was, but I also get up the accumulation of all that principal pay down. I'm not paying it, I'm paying the payment, and the buyer's paying me. That's my payday two. So the payday payday one, twos, and threes, like I we set a record last forever, it was 350 grand for this house in in in uh Maryland. They those are it's depending on price range, right? So, like California, Miami, some of these higher end markets, there's there are no deals under six figures for these students. Oh boy, yeah, that's right. Pretty good exit for the most people come to us with a nice, healthy five figure or multiple six figures, and they can usually get a plan together for two years to get an exit there if they're serious about it.
SPEAKER_02:Interesting. Go ahead. Yeah, what's the process? So somebody somebody discovers you. What's it look like? What's what's the the journey that they take with you?
SPEAKER_00:Is this a student now you mean? Yes, yeah. Um, we start them. I'm big on free, like for your show. I'm I'll give away the free books. Why? Because it's just a lot of junk out there. I just want people to like, if it's the niche, I want them to know ahead of time, and then they can look at other things. What are some other things? We have an academy, it's online, it's self-directed, it's pretty robust, like it's grown over the years, pretty robust. 60 some odd videos, PDFs, live calls. Um, that's called our quantum leap system. And then so they learn the three paydays, they learn each niche we just talked about, owner financing, subject to we go into lease purchase, they learn all the basics. Some will go off and do deals on their own, some will opt to get into some group coaching programs for some more guidance, and others will be more serious. People get into what we call the associate program where we do the deals with them. That's what I was alluding to earlier. And that's what I when I said we're in AD markets, those are sort of the associates that say, look, I'm serious, I need you over my shoulder, or I want to leave my job, I want to run fast. And they they join that program. That's that's sort of one of my values is effort for effort. So that's um, it's not like, hey, you have one coaching call, see you next week. A lot of programs out there like that. Like, yeah, I got a deal. No, see you next week. We have group coaching calls, but then we have five coaches. I coach the higher level. And if you get a deal, you can be talking to a coach three times a day to get that deal done. Why? Because we rev share with you. It behooves us to get the deal done. So those are different ways to participate. Whether it starts free, goes to the academy. If you want to go further, goes to coaching.
SPEAKER_01:Wow, that's uh pretty enticing program. You can start in the free game, you can try it out, see if it's for you, and then keep moving up and doing it. How many people do you have in your higher-level coaching program today?
SPEAKER_00:We've got about a hundred and a quarter, 125 or so around the country, and then uh 80 active markets, give or take. What's the most fun you have with it?
SPEAKER_01:Is it the coaching? Is it the rev share? Is it the deal?
SPEAKER_00:I like um I started the company doing deals. I I got asked by a local, we have a war college here on Ireland, and the kid was retiring and he heard my name and he said, Can you coach me? Like I I had coached before, but not investors. So I said, sure, and that's what started just organically, but I just like doing deals. That's how it came about. And then my son-in-law came in, he likes scaling the company, building teams, so it just worked. I still to this day like just doing deals. So I work with uh hiring, uh, I call it the presidents of club. There's only five of them. I work very, very closely with five of them, and we just go to get out there and do deals pretty aggressively. Ah, that sounds like fun.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think you know, as we scale business, uh, and we always talk about this, uh, always, but we have talked about it. When you get to a certain spot, like you know, I've grown my business to a level where I'm really not as involved in the day-to-day anymore. Yeah, and when I talk with other people like that, what do we always do? We always romanticize going back to how we started, you know. And if for me it wasn't deals, it was working on people's houses, you know, and and being an attorney just doing things with the guys at times or solving a problem. And yeah, we always romanticize it, but yet for us to keep scaling, you've got to have uh it sounds like you got a complimentary piece in your son-in-law who knows how to build teams and scale, allows you to focus on what you're best at. Um, talk about did you were you thoughtful on how you built that, or did this just kind of happen organically?
SPEAKER_00:Uh, everybody says that because it's family. I it it wasn't planned. I was by myself, and then around 14, my son Nick was a realtor. And I said, Hey, can you help me? Like, I gotta dispose of these properties. I I need someone, so he was just doing postings, you know, online stuff that I didn't want to deal with, and that grew into full time. And then Zach, my son, and my daughter Kayla were bartending and personal training on Island here. Great money around here because it's all you know, tourists come in and out, but shitty lifestyle, right? You're up till three, four in the morning. So they came in and said, Can I join? I said, Yeah, I mean, there's no salary or anything, you're gonna eat what you kill. So we do deals, you get paid. And we started that. They came in at 15, and then you know, the rest of it we got a hold of a company in Arizona that helps us scale. We're still with them to this day, and we have a blast doing it now. My daughter stepped aside. We have two grandkids now, but Nick and Zach are still with me and and cranking. And and again, I credit a lot of the scaling and and technology to them because I was just banging it out when it's by myself.
SPEAKER_01:Wow, solid move. That's awesome. And you get to work with your family. I think that's another cool thing. It reminds me of the Jerry Jones. Um, you know, the Dallas Cowboys they had a special on the Jerry Jones, how he bought the cowboys. I and so I hate the cowboys. I'm just gonna go on a record but piss off your other state.
SPEAKER_02:But you but you like the story.
SPEAKER_01:But the story was this yeah, he bought the cowboys, and he's he said, I'm doing this to to get my family in business because I want everybody to come in with me. And to this day, all of him and his kids are still running that. I didn't know that about him. That's cool. Yeah, the whole thing was about I wanted to be with my family, and on my side, my kids have run as far as they possibly can away from me to never get in my business. So uh clearly I'm not Jerry Jones. Yeah, maybe I should like to catch my screen. Yeah, all right. So as you uh as you're out there, you know, you're doing your thing. Uh are you looking to scale your business now, or you do you like where it's at now? Do you uh did what do you get your uh where do you get in your phone with?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I'm looking to scale it. Um, I I personally when I okay, I'm gonna call off of this. I'm in here in the office three days a week, but I'm always on and I'm always playing with deals and playing with stuff, but I'm in here three days a week. I I love that schedule. Um, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. And yes, we're looking to scale. My son-in-law is only 37, my son uh 37, 38. So they they want to crank it up. So I want to leave some cool things with them, but I also know that if there's gonna ever be uh an equity moment, then we've got to be even stronger and bigger than we are now. And I think that'd be good to set them up, you know, literally set them up for life if we do it right over the next half a decade here.
SPEAKER_01:Nice. That's good. So you're leaving your legacy. I think that's another thing that you start thinking about later on in in the career or the life cycle, the lifespan of your business. We've had um guys on, in fact, my buddy who's brought his uh friends, uh his sons all into this uh fold, the awnings above Jerry French, and he's doing that. I think you start thinking about that, but you want to leave that legacy, you want to leave a mark.
SPEAKER_02:You wanna I am so proud of you to be able to talk about other people doing a great job of legacy when I know how much it hurts.
SPEAKER_01:It does. I'm not lying. I'm sorry, they ran it as fast as they possibly could. One good one's becoming a lawyer and one's becoming a PA. So but it's good is just always not a lawyer. I I need a lawyer and I'll and I did have somebody who's critiquing my entire health structure over the weekend, uh, which is uh that's a blast. That is so much fun to go out with uh to dinner with somebody who's uh the whole time, yeah. Yeah, yeah, we get another drink, and then she's like, Is that really what you want? I'm like, Oh yeah. In fact, I want a double. You keep asking, I want even more than that. Yeah, so when you talk about real estate and the creative stuff, what are some of the obstacles people when you first start talking to them? Are people kind of giving you that side eye? Like, all right, man, you're one of those fancy dancers who uh do you find that you feel like you're having to overcome the charlatan kind of mind uh from a salary mean? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um not typically if we're if you're scripted enough to like get to what either the market's not giving them or they're trying to accomplish, right? Their problem, then all of a sudden that all goes away. They're going, Where's this? Like, how? Tell me, where's the solution? Like, I can think of all kinds of examples, but like a uh unlike the free and clear person, uh divorce couple recently, not amicable. Uh, mortgage is one month behind, it's gonna be soon, you know, too far behind. So we bought that property subject to that loan staying in place, and all of a sudden their credit repaired itself, right? Because we took over payments, and that's a happy moment for them. That so they didn't care how they did it. Let's like to do it. How does it work? Because we're solving a problem. That that that house was gonna get foreclosed on. That's just an example that came to mind.
SPEAKER_01:But see, I I think that would be so hard because I think uh if I got that call, Alan, you got that call, I'd be like, nah, no, thanks, buddy. I uh I I think you're up to something.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and it and I am kind of curious. Well, and they have an interesting uh list system because I I wonder how many people that they have to touch in order to get a but if they get the right person who's it stuck, then this is a lifeline. It's a total lifeline.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I guess all right, so what is what is that virtual assistant call to close call to action? Like uh what I mean is how many do they have to call before you actually get on the phone with somebody?
SPEAKER_00:Uh I'll give you some ratios because we've got them for over a decade now. So live to dial. So they dial 200 calls, they get live about 20. So let's say they talk to 40 people. Um, live to lead is gonna be somewhere around 10 to 15 percent, might be as high as 20. So let's just go low and say they got four leads in there. Um, about 15 leads will get us an appointment. Um, about 17 to 25 leads will get us what we call a property under agreement. And if you want to just cut right to the chase at the end, about 40 of those leads. So if you can do if you can call enough people per month, it ends up being like 10 or 15 a week. Uh, 40 leads will get you a deal. Now it's not someone comes in, the first 40 leads, they got a deal, but you know, over time the average is gonna get them humming along at like one deal a month. So most people come in and say, show me how to do like six or 12 of these, and in which case we want to get them up to about 10 or 15 leads a week is the long and the short of it. And that's not daunting. So the VA does that, gives you the 10 or 15. You're gonna make 10 or 15 solid phone calls, and you gotta learn the scripts, which we teach, and the coaches actually do some of the calls with them when they're new. So it's not a daunting task. You just gotta learn the skill set.
SPEAKER_01:I like that you guys work with them, and you know, a lot of times people uh again with coaches, um, you know, hey, I'll meet you next week. Hey, what'd you do? Did you do everything we said you're gonna do? All right, good. I'm your accountability coach. Okay, great. Yeah, and by the way, that that's great. I I needed one for a while as well. But in this case, it's not, hey, buy my system and bang, you're gonna be a millionaire. It's no, we're gonna get in the trance, it's worth you, we're gonna work with you and do it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I love it because when you when you first when you first look at this, you're going, well, if it works that well, why would they share? And they're like, okay, well, then they can sell their system. But really, if what's happened is is you've created a nationwide marketing force, and so it's a total win-win for the people out there.
SPEAKER_00:I'll give you the exact conversation, Alan, to your point, spot on. So my son-in-law came in once. I think this was probably when we started this program 16 and said, Look, like we can keep doing deals, but we can't really go out of the area without boots on the ground. You can, but it's harder. We can do it virtually, but it's harder. It's after COVID, it became a little bit easier if people accepted it. Then he said, Well, why don't we like partner with them, but not really partner with them? Because it's their deal, but we get a piece. That's how so that's how we get to expand all around the country, but not try to water ourselves down effort-wise and liability-wise. So we get to do the amount of deals and get to have a chunk. And I tell you what, you when you coach, anyone who coaches goes, I get it now. When you coach and someone goes from like I was broke after the crash, I went from a house on the ocean here in Newport to a one-bedroom apartment. So I get my credit's trash, I get all that. So when I see people and I get to help them through that, that's beyond satisfaction, right? It's it's a whole new experience. Um, that's what keeps me going because it's never boring. Everybody has a different headache, right? A different problem in their life. That's kind of the mindset piece of the game, but that's what I love doing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, it it sounds like you're walking the walk and talking the talk. I mean, I thought this this stuff is very interesting. I don't know if I would have sought it out. Are most of the people that you well, you're working in the the top five, those guys are probably this is their full-time gig. Most of the people who join into your group and get to the paid version, is this a part-time side hustle or is this something that they're aiming for full-time?
SPEAKER_00:Most, if not all, start part-time because of the nature of real estate, right? And so many niches doing a garbage job. So by the time they get to us, they're like, just show me like a path. And then um, not all want or need the path to get out of the job right away, but those that do, we set them up on a very, very specific program. I'll give you a quick example because we we talked about all the niches. Um, gentlemen Rick, he's actually in New Hampshire, not too far away, coincidentally. But he came in. I kept hearing his name because I wasn't at that level that they coach him at. So I just called him up one day, invited him to one of the higher levels, and we get after it and come to find out, he tried wholesaling, he tried flipping. It's just that he worked for the government uh as an engineer, like on submarines, for 30 years, 30. And he had 180 employees working for him. So every time he tried one of these niches, it's like a job. I gotta go flip a house or I gotta go wholesale and then I gotta go do it again. So we took him, put him in the conference room, posted boards all over the place, you know, posted notes, and we got a plan with him for 24 months, and he left that government job. That's 30 years, and he made good money, you know, six figure plus. So that's an example of it can be done if they'll commit to it. Not a I gotta go be kind of cool if I left my job, but hey, I'm committed, just show me how and hold me to that. And that's what we did with Rick. We did it with a lot of people. The uh Judy was another one, multiple six figures up in Maine. Um, couple years, maybe maybe a little longer for her, closer to three. But she left that. These are big salaries, right? And in longtime jobs. So we love doing that. We call it escaping the W-2.
SPEAKER_02:Escape the W-2. Is there a certain profile of somebody who's successful?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um, no particular order, like podcast listeners, quite frankly, are avid learners and they tend to be coachable because they don't sit out and hang on podcasts for 45 minutes. So I tend to get a lot of really quality leads from doing my shows. Um, the the other people that can tend to gravitate towards us are people that either were in a family business or or witnessed an entrepreneurial business when they were growing up and kind of want that. Like they'll see our family and go, Hey, I want to do that, I want to bring my kids, and they'd come with their kids to the event and everything. Um, the five and six figure earners, I told you in corporate that want to escape, that tends to be solid because they're not looking for a deal tomorrow. Like, I needed a deal tomorrow when I started. I needed like I needed oxygen. If they come in and have a bandwidth and they go, Hey, Chris, just teach me. I'm okay, I don't do a deal tomorrow. They tend to be really good. Uh, it's just a process. I tell people you're gonna do deals along the way, but give yourself like with blinders on three years, not to do a deal, but to learn it so you can like fly a little bit on your own. You're not with us for life, you know.
SPEAKER_01:I think that's the one thing. If somebody heard what he just said, that you're basically I'm gonna try to scare the hell out of you because I'm not gonna make you rich quick. This isn't gonna happen in 60 days. You give me three years and you're gonna get there.
SPEAKER_00:You'll have a good experience, period.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So are you scared? You want to get out? Great. You want to go in, you want to put the work in, you want to make it happen, then we got somebody. I like that because that shows a lot of entrepreneurship, grit, determination, and somebody who isn't just thinking about the quick buck and the quick flip. Yeah, it takes the BS out of it. It does because there's so much BS. I can't tell you how many people I've watched who said, Oh, yeah, I flip houses. And then when you really dig in, you know, I finally have one guy tell me, Yeah, well, I got my ass handed to me on this last one. I lost, yeah, I lost 18,000 on this one deal. I was like, Oh, there you go. Because people have always asked me in my world, you know, as a handyman and remodeler, how come I didn't flip houses when uh COVID hit? And I said because that wasn't my skill set, I didn't know it. I knew enough to know that that wasn't something I could pull off. And I just I didn't know this. Maybe if I would have known the smart real estate coach, I may have probably tried something, don't know.
SPEAKER_00:You mentioned grit quick quick stories. You guys remember you remember the movie Rudy? Yeah, yeah. Um, so the real Rudy Rudigo, we had them into our 2018 event, and the entire event was built around kind of what you just said. Oh, yeah, I get that, because it was all about the grit. And then we gave uh Duckworth's book out, which was grit. Uh, because we just want to instill that, like it's gonna take that, and we just hammered that like for a whole half a year, uh, all on grit.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think it's uh it's underrated. And when it comes to what makes entrepreneurs successful, besides being neurotic, you know, uh overly optimistic, as uh Alan has always uh mentioned fatally optimistic, fatally optimistic. Thank you, entrepreneurs. So that's F Allen, Chris at the trustedpoolac.com. He is not missing on your dream, he's just letting you know you better get real about it. So it's hard, right? Entrepreneurship is not easy. They gotta know that. It is not for sissies. We gotta get after it, make it happen, get going. God, we're coming to the end of this. Uh, Chris, a little bit more about how people can find you.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I promised at the beginning I'd give them all a book. They'll get a couple books. Uh, just go to wicked smartbooks.com forward slash safari and they'll get them for free. And it's not one of the free offers where it says free, and then you gotta put in shipping. Yeah, it's free. We ship it. It's our cost, our dime. You get it for free. Nice. That's fantastic.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, well, if you're saying that we might have something coming, we'll uh we'll definitely have to bring that up on the next pod when we're up and uh together.
SPEAKER_02:I I don't know if we have time, but I do want to ask. He wrote four books. I mean, Chris wrote one and he was done because uh it was a it was a big job. What uh can you give us a quick overview on the four?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, real estate on your terms, which is over my shoulder, which is the one they'll get. Uh that's kind of A through Z. And then the New Rules of Real Estate was a uh compilation of podcast guests so that I would again give people options so that they didn't know what niche. Go listen, go read that, and you'll get all kinds of different experts in there. I think I had 21 different experts in there. Um, the authority for real estate investors was built. It's like a guy that built how to become the authority, then chicken souped it. You know, he has branches. So we did the real estate one for him. Um, that was a good book. And then deal structure Sunday is all deals, and it's kind of look behind the curtain like what was the good, the bad, and the ugly? Like, we don't just give the fluff like most books in the seminar. We kind of went behind the scenes, like, here were the headaches, here were the winds, and and so those are the four there.
SPEAKER_02:So that last one would appeal to somebody even if they're not interested in real estate. They're just oh yeah, they're like deal making.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's just deals. It's uh we've self-published that the the last three. The first one I I had no clue. I mean, I didn't even I put they put me in a special English class in school. Like, I I wasn't Mr. Author, I just got guided. And then the next three we self-published.
SPEAKER_01:Nice. Yeah, same thing. I'm an engineer. Uh, my master's thesis, I was uh one of three uh American-born English speaking people in my in my entire master's class in mechanical engineering in my thesis. Um, when I turned it in, my professor wrote, This is gobbledygook. I'm done listening. You done reading this? Go to the go to the reading center. You and I were in the same class. So I was in that class with you. So uh yeah, I mean, I wrote that book and it was hard. You know, labor love. I I it it I think people don't appreciate what it takes to get that book out and um and to really be thoughtful with it and and go and and put it together so you think it's something that people would read and make a difference with. And I think um that's awesome that you put the four together because uh, like I said, actually, people keep asking, are you gonna write a second book? Hey, you know you could write them off all your podcast guests. I'm like, yeah, but that means I still have to write it. Still gonna edit it and go through it. Maybe you could use AI. I you know, maybe I can use AI. Uh I oh god, you just get off of it. Because he and I uh I just inside joke, but just Chris. Yeah, so he's scared of AI. I'm embracing it. A AI is apparently not. Maybe, maybe not enough. Okay. Maybe I'm more AI than you are, guys. Go get this thing figured out. You gotta go check this out. Get the books, get a read on them. Like Alan said, even if you don't think you're doing a deal, um, that that book look behind the deal. If you don't want to get into real estate, I think that's solid. Um, if you didn't pick something up on this podcast, man, I think that's on you because this was dynamite, man. Right off the rip, you could tell somebody knows what they're talking about and got command of it.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, he changed he changed the game. He did. He didn't like the rules and he just made his own. I like it, yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_01:Hmm. Mm-hmm. I'm changing rules out. No, they're not changing rules, they're making it happen. That's Chris Freefontaine, Smart Real Estate Coach. This has been a dynamite episode, a little bit different than what we talk about, but I'm telling you what, I bet you things are gonna shake for you if you feel wicked smart. I do feel wicked smart. I feel like this is awesome. Chris, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. Yeah, you're bad.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks for having me, guys. Yeah, I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01:All right, let's keep going up that mountaintop. Let's make it happen another week, another dime, another dollar. We gotta get it going. We gotta make some hundreds, maybe millions. Cheers, everybody. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Small Business Department. Remember, your positive attitude will help you achieve that higher altitude you're looking for in the wild world small business ownership. Until next time, make it a great day.
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