The Small Business Safari

From Welding To Wireless: A Family’s Exit Strategy | Jim Tracy

• Chris Lalomia, Alan Wyatt, Jim Tracy • Episode 228

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What does it take to go from the factory floor to the boardroom—and still keep your values intact?
In this episode, we trade war stories with Jim Tracy, tracing his journey from welder to Wireless Hall of Fame leader. Jim shares how he built a blue-collar telecommunications business alongside his son, exited twice, and never lost sight of culture, safety, and people along the way.

We dig into what caring leadership really looks like when payroll is tight, how authentic recognition and jobsite visits strengthen teams, and why designing your business to be sellable years in advance changes every decision you make. Jim also breaks down private equity fit, post-merge integration, and how calm, disciplined leaders win in uncertain markets.

If you’re building a business in the trades—or any people-driven operation—this conversation is packed with hard-learned lessons you can actually use.

🎥 Watch the full episode on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@TheSmallBusinessSafari

💡 GOLD NUGGETS 

• Building a blue-collar telecommunications business with family
 • Running on fear and discipline during lean payroll weeks
 • Choosing people over money as a leadership operating system
 • Authentic recognition and field visits that strengthen culture
 • Making safety engaging, rewarding, and real on jobsites
 • Designing a business to be sellable long before an exit
 • What private equity really looks for beyond the numbers
 • Navigating cultural fit and post-merge integration
 • Embracing uncertainty with scenario planning and calm execution
 • Lessons from Legacy Radio to Grampian podcast and radical transparency
 • Customer service truths: under promise, overdeliver—every time

🔗 Guest Links

• Website: www.thegrampion.com

Email: jim@thejimtracy.com

 • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jim-tracy-istowerjim/
 • Podcast: Legacy Radio to The Grampian

🌍 Follow The Small Business Safari

• Instagram | @smallbusinesssafaripodcast
• LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrislalomia/
• Website | https://chrislalomia.com

If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a founder who needs a nudge, and leave a quick review so more builders can find us. Your support helps more small business owners turn uncertainty into an advantage.

📩 Connect:
Send me an email: chris@thetrustedtoolbox.com




Thanks to our sponsor Smart Hire Solutions LLC!

SPEAKER_00:

So, I mean, obviously, this is uh that because you talked about taking that walk to talk to somebody. I was like, So what they do, like get a hangnail on their computer? I mean, did a keyboard pop off their eye? And they were like, no, no, man, we were we're literally doing the infrastructure that people don't realize that's blue-collar-related.

SPEAKER_01:

He started as a welder.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, well, this was in a manufacturing plant in a previous job, and there were two fingers laying on the ground, and they called me for a could to go pick up his fingers on the night shift. So uh I was the general manager of that uh manufacturing facility, and I did pick up his fingers, and I did get him to the hospital a little too late, and I did go get his wife and bring her to the hospital, and it was not I I call that the the the longest walk I've ever taken, that distance between my car and her porch. Yeah, it's just it's just it's more awful than I can explain.

SPEAKER_02:

Did they did they get the fingers back on?

SPEAKER_04:

Negative, too late.

SPEAKER_02:

Pack them in ice.

SPEAKER_04:

We did, but they were also laying in sawdust.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, I want to know, did you did you use like a a paper towel to pick them up or did you just pick them up?

SPEAKER_04:

I just picked them up, man. I was I well, this is in the pre uh this is yeah, this is in the 90s, so we weren't worried about communicable diseases and I wasn't gonna get COVID from my finger. I love it, or any of those other bloodborne.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh finger by finger success with Jim Tracy. Welcome to the Small Business Safari, where I help guide you to avoid those traps, pitfalls, and dangers that lurk when navigating the wild world of small business ownership. I'll share those gold nuggets of information and invite guests to help accelerate your ascent to that mountaintop of success. It's a jungle out there, and I want to help you traverse through the levels of owning your own business that can get you bogged down and distract you from hitting your own personal and professional goals. So strap in adventure team and let's take a ride through the safari to get you to the mountain. Can't believe Alan just said I checked out. Uh I can't even delay the work. Am I illiteracy? Yes. Hey, guys, it's all that. I hope that you guys have enjoyed this podcast. Yeah, sometimes the audio isn't so good. If it's not good, man, send me an email, Chris at the Trusted Toolbox. I always do blow me up. I do. Alan loves doing it, but we wouldn't be doing this for four and a half years if the quality wasn't good most of the time, 99% of the time, but sometimes it sucks. And today we've got an award-winning podcast for Jim Tracy on a gym.

SPEAKER_02:

And we've already stumbled all over ourselves.

SPEAKER_00:

And we just were just kicking ourselves. Good news is I got water in part of my house. Uh, so I've got I'm almost established back. But you've got a little bit more life about you right now. I am a little bit more excited. So Jim was telling us a story about getting flight lessons. Yeah, when he said 27-year instructor. I'm like, like F-16.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm like, okay, hit the button. God dang it.

SPEAKER_04:

So what what were you about to say? I well, we were talking about technological illiteracy, and I was kind of trying to trying to trump you guys on it because I got trained by an F-15 pilot, flew F-16s too, but mostly F-15s, and then uh jets from 737s to uh 787s. I think he flew an 87. But anyway, um we get up in the air and he all of a sudden he looks at me and he goes, Stop pressing buttons. So the first rule of flight is if you don't know what it's for, don't push it.

SPEAKER_02:

I want to why were you pressing buttons?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, you want to make something happen, and you know uh not when you're in the air. Well, yeah. I mean, you got to figure out how so how stuff works.

SPEAKER_02:

Seems like there's a risk reward level there that I'm not comfortable with.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, in a technologically advanced aircraft, it's really easy to press buttons, and as long as it's not blinking and blaring at you, it's probably good.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh my God. I remember my yeah, my brother-in-law is uh a pilot and used to have a farm down in Mexico, and I couldn't fit in his plane, but I would fly down to McAllen, he would pick me up at the border and fly me down to his farm. And at one point he's like, uh, can you can you not hit that button with your knee? And then it was hey, can you not hit that lever with your knee? I'm like, pick one, because I don't have room for my leg.

SPEAKER_04:

I don't fit.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't fit in this plane.

SPEAKER_04:

Right on, right on. Sounds like a fun flight, though.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh yeah. For some reason that's a little bit more yeah. I we were we were uh we were taking off, and uh it was I felt like I was on a leaf. It was a little plane, the winds are howling, and I'm like, we can wait till tomorrow. He's like, they're always blowing like this. And as soon as we got off the ground, we just start tumbling, and then yeah, that windshield's eight inches in front of your face. And I and you go you go through a cloud, can't see anything, and all of a sudden you see everything, then you can't see anything. And I'm like, Where's your where's your radar? Uh how do you know where all the other planes are? And he goes, We like to call it the big sky theory. I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna ask you any more questions.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah. Better not better off not asking those questions.

SPEAKER_02:

No, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

All right, let's get back to it. Now you guys have you have you done talking about it.

SPEAKER_02:

Was that empathetic listening, Chris? I don't think it was. I was at work freaking line.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh my god. Hey, people are calling me in to learn and listen. Now we learned about big sky, we learned about pushing buttons, and we learned about Alan going in and out of clouds. All right, cloud chaser. Can we get going?

SPEAKER_04:

Dreamers fade in and out of the clouds. So, Alan, you're probably a great dreamer.

SPEAKER_02:

I am.

SPEAKER_04:

He is.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm just not I'm not appreciated by my co-host.

SPEAKER_00:

I was appreciating you because I am not gonna lie, everybody, I was handling a little uh work emergency in the middle of that. So I was listening and you trashed me in the middle of it. I did, yeah. It was good. All right, great. You multitasked. Well, I'm really good at doing that. Jim Tracy coming on, everybody. Jim, introduce everybody to the jimtracy.com experience.

SPEAKER_04:

Wow. Well, you know, I spent 23. Well, I started out life as a welder, and and uh my I I met this beautiful woman up in Duluth, Minnesota, and I wanted to marry her, and so I asked her dad. I said, I'd like to marry your daughter. He said, Good, where are you going to school? I'm like, anywhere you want, sir. If that's the price of admission, I'm all in. So uh got out of school, had a number of jobs, and uh found my I had this entrepreneurial itch that I always needed to scratch. So uh try and fail, get a new job, recover, try and fail, did that a few times, and then um started a uh telecommunications business with my son Ryan. And uh we launched in '99, incorporated in 2000, and then we went through a private equity exit in 2018, the first time, and then again in 2019, and uh came out of that and have had uh I'm I'm I'm a product of the American dream, man. And uh did a podcast for our business and just continued it on. Uh now I and I I teach I speak for a living. I speak from stages and I speak on a podcast and I wrote a couple of books, and I'm just having fun, man. I'm doing what I was meant to do. So he's everything that you want to be.

SPEAKER_00:

I am not only jelly, boys and girls, I am super jelly. He says it, he said 18 years. I'm at your 17. I was thinking the same. I'm like, I'm just a year away from being Jim, and I can have the jimtracy.com. Of course, you guys can all go check out chrislalamia.com but I'm slogging. Oh, I gotta get rid of it. I gotta hurry up and catch up to Jim. I got an I got a year to catch up to his 17 and probably wildly more successful than I've been.

SPEAKER_04:

But um But wait a minute, I'm a lot older than you are, too, though.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you. I appreciate that. But um, so I did not realize he must be 107. Yeah, it's not the age, it's a mileage, right? I love it. So, man, I tell you, man, full of life, love that story. Let's go back to uh the failed try, fail try, and then uh um, and then you said my win was with my son. I mean, how good does that have to feel now?

SPEAKER_04:

You know, um, one of the things that I look back on with incredible fondness is that uh Ryan and I worked together for a long time and we built a lot of houses together, but when we finally gelled together in a business, um, we were here about three or four years in, and and he said, I love having you as a partner. And I was like, hmm, you know, now he's like in his early 20s. I'm like, why do you love having me as a partner? He said, Because you love me more than money. And I'm like, hmm, that's interesting. That's the way family businesses should operate. As a matter of fact, that's the way all partnerships should operate. The the the ideal relationship is not between you and 20 bucks. The ideal relationship with you is with the people who you impact and and who impact you in your life. I always said about uh the guys in the field is that if if if they don't go to work, I go on food stamps. So I really gotta take care of those guys. And so at the high point, we had a couple of hundred employees, and I was made sure to take care of them. That's how the podcast started too.

SPEAKER_00:

So uh we'll talk about the podcast. I'm gonna go back to that. You you said something that um it is easy to say, hard to execute. Dad, you love me more than money, and uh I think for a lot of us in the beginning, it is hard to have that altruistic view. It's it's hard to have that mindset because in the beginning uh I love money because money put food on the table and food on the table and the roof.

SPEAKER_02:

And once I get enough money, then I'll take care of you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I think yeah, I think that's the one is it's easy for people who have become successful. And yeah, I mean, I'll put myself there, guys, right? You know, 17 years doing this, being able to do this great podcast with Alan for four and a half. But you're right. But in the beginning, it's hard to have that mindset. I can tell you I didn't have it. I mean, I was I was like, I just left the corporate world and I'm like, dude, I got to hustle.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and that hustle includes uh me running to the mailbox with my wife on one side and me on the other, and having somebody do an early pay. And we're like, yay, we get to make payroll this week. Or or me calling Ryan and saying, Hey Ryan, I hope you've been saving because you're gonna have to write me a big check. We're both stroking checks to make payroll this week. And so we took our savings and and you know, it's uh small business and entrepreneurship is gambling of the finest sort. We better houses every day. We I mean, it's just like, but I you know, a lot of people say you're born an entrepreneur, but I think it's both born and built. Uh, because you have uh entrepreneurship after you enter it, uh you realize it's something you cannot not do. You have to do it because it's the way you were are, it's the way you've been raised. Yeah. Ray, you've been built.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, amen, brother. I uh I have uh I I tell people now, even if I want to go back to the corporate world, I'm unemployable. Somebody says, Oh no, I'm sure somebody will hire you. I'm like, no, you might hire me for like a week, maybe two. Yeah, I might get four paychecks, but I probably won't get that. A couple visits to HR along the way. Yeah. So I think you're right, because once I got a taste of it, um, I've told people a lot that for me and and Alan did the same thing. I said, I just never wanted to be 60-year-old and go, I wonder if I could. Um I wanted to take that and figure I could always do it. So fear drew me, drove me more than reward. Yeah, and that's like I said, it's hard to have that mindset you had in the beginning of abundance and and and true love and joy for what you're doing, but you do because you just talked about running to the mailbox. I remember driving seven miles in Atlanta traffic, which means you're an hour, uh, getting a check, driving another two miles, which means half an hour, making it 429, putting the deposit in the bank to make payroll the next morning. Yeah. So it's that it's that passionate.

SPEAKER_02:

You actually said something I was listening to a Rogan podcast with the founder of NVIDIA, and he actually confessed on that podcast, he goes, I was always more motivated by the fear of failure than the desire to achieve.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I agree. I for me it was. I think the fear of uh well, failure or fear of just not knowing drove me to say, I'm gonna leave this cushy, high-paying job that isn't forever, but it also I just felt like I was wasting away. Make it, I mean, again, I don't say it to brag. I tell people all the time I'm I made a lot of money. When I laugh, people are sitting there with their jaws going, I can't believe you're doing this.

SPEAKER_02:

And looking back on the We still are like, I can't believe we did this either. I can't believe I did this either.

SPEAKER_00:

But once you get it, you get a taste of it, you're like, you know what, you're on that drug and it's fun.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, you know, one of the things that's so awesome about that is before we started legacy telecommunications, I worked for a corporate enterprise and I was kind of the young rising star. And I started my week in Seattle, and I went Phoenix, Salt Lake, Denver, Chicago, DC. And then I was back on a plane and I was headed over Chicago to San Francisco so I could catch a flight to Narita, Tokyo. And I looked down at Chicago and I looked at my watch and I thought, I'm missing my daughter's swim meet. I quit. And uh two months later, I was in the CEO's office saying, Hey man, I quit. And and they're like, Oh, no, no, no, you don't understand. What do we got to do? What do we got to do? I'm like, you're not the problem. I'm the problem. Because if I do this job halfways, it's not gonna be right, and and everybody is gonna revolt under me. So I'm I'm tapping out, and they're like, No, no, no, no, no. You gotta stop and consider.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm like, no, I don't. I like I'm you said something else I think is really good. I think right now, especially in the evolution of entrepreneurship, um, you can do the side hustle, and I think there's a lot of great side hustles you could do, but I'm not built side hustle guy. No, I'm built all in guy, and that's why I put that in my book. And I said, uh guy told me, he said, you're either halfway in or all the way out, and that's Jerry. And and I did, and I was all the way in, and next thing you know, I was up to my eyeballs, uh, and then over my head, and then swimming through it because it was 2008, and here comes the recession, just smacking me around.

SPEAKER_02:

But uh you know, I think you dropped the book thing to a guy who's got three.

SPEAKER_00:

I know, I only have one. I mean come on, I did try to slip it in there. You did slip it in there. Tim Tracy experience, don't forget about From the Zoo to the Wild little book, but it's okay. It's a good book.

SPEAKER_02:

Hey Jim, before Chris keeps going, I I want to ask you about this. You said you talked about taking care of your employees, and we got a lot, we got a lot of small business people who are in our audience. Well, what does that mean to you? And then how do you take care of people in a way that they actually realize that you're taking care of them? Because there's such high expectations from employees these days.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I did an interview, and this was years ago, and and they said, and and it was right after we closed the first private equity deal. And, you know, everybody thinks you're a rock star and everybody wasn't talking, and it's really not true. But uh they said, you know, what in your role of CEO, what is what what what stands out as you is the like the most important thing you did. And I said, and I still maintain to this day that my most important job was handwriting a birthday card to every employee and having it arrive on the week of their birthday. Now, someone addressed them for me, I confess, but but I hand wrote and I found something positive to encourage that person, whether it's like your team says you're great, you show up on time. I mean, whatever it is that I and some of them I didn't even know or know very well. And so I had to search a little bit to find something positive to write, because when you got that many people, all of a sudden it becomes uh an exercise. But I had grown men come back to me um months and even years later and throw their arms around me and hug me and say, you know, that birthday card meant everything to me. And it's really true. If you take the time to show them that you care just a little, just a little, that means a lot, especially coming from quote, the top dog or the big man or the actual guy or whatever, whatever you call yourself. Um, if you're leading a team and they know you care, it's priceless to them.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, I I love that you said that. And uh, if you're out there right now going, that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna start sending birthday cards to everybody. Hey, if that's not you though, don't do it. You got to be authentic, you got to find your authentic you because people will see that. And then I think that's where they start to resonate and follow with you. And I love for you, it was birthday cards. We do the birthday cards, the anniversary. I'm sure it was more than a birthday card, Jim. Well, but Jim, that's what I mean. It's so authentic and it was real to him. He found something positive to say about what they did and recognize their individual contribution. If that's not where you're at, but find your thing and be authentic with it, and people will see that and they'll resonate and they'll follow you.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, it's especially if you're in a service industry where people are leaving your place. Go out to where they're working and say hello so you recognize what they do for a living that lets you go to the grocery store. I mean, if if if we can learn to again go out and touch people as leaders, then all of a sudden they feel like they matter. And if they matter, then workforce development problems evaporate because people want to work for you, and that really is true. We found that to be incredibly true.

SPEAKER_00:

That's a great point. I you know, I do the same. I've got a distributed workforce with my handyman and your modelers. And when I come on a job site, uh, typically lately, it's been um just because I'm the GC and the engineer uh to look at something big. Yeah, but they but when I sit there and go, hey man, I like that setup. Oh, yeah, what are you doing with that? And the next thing you know, you ask them about their tool. You're like, hey, uh, how's that? I think, man, I love my oscillating saw, you know. And and you have that and you walk away, that that's worth the birthday card. So there is an authentic touch you can have. You got to find your authentic. And I think, you know, I'm out there and I love this stuff anyway. So, but it it bleeds through. And you're right. I think, Jim, when I walk away, I didn't realize the impact, but I do when I see them in training, because I bring all my guys in for training every other Wednesday, so they can feel our culture of who we are and what we do. And I think uh you're hitting on a lot of great points that I don't care if you have three people or a hundred people, and it sounds like you were a big dog, you know, it was a hundred people, that's a lot. I mean, I'm at 32 and I'm only in one store or two cities, but you were all over the nation, if not worldwide.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, we were we had four locations, now five, but after we did the second merge with three other companies, four of the companies, um, we were uh if you take a line between Seattle and Miami, everything south of that line is pretty much what we covered. So uh that was a that was a that was a big lift. But the other thing that comes into play is that you don't have to, it doesn't have to be like formal. I did the safety checks and everybody everybody cringes when they hear safety. When they say me coming on the job site, like I would go and I would say, okay, everybody, it's a requirement to have safety glasses on your person. So everybody got them, and invariably, you know, there would be that one guy who didn't, and so I wouldn't play dollar poker with him. The the other four of us would play dollar poker, and the winner, I would hand them a set of brand new binoculars. And this is a place where a lot of people hunt. A lot of people like use binoculars, and I would just like buy a home. And sometimes it was binoculars, sometimes it was rangefinders, sometimes, but you know, it's a you know,$150 gift or something like that, and it's just for having your safety glasses on your person.

SPEAKER_02:

But you made the visit. From the big cheese, something to look forward to.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

What a huge nugget that is.

SPEAKER_04:

And then make them not hate safety, make them love safety. Your encouragement now is like, don't get stuck without your safety glasses because you got to have them on your face when you're cutting, striking, or grinding. But you got to have them on your person if you're going to use them when those opportunities arise. So man, it's just like, let's make safety fun again. I say it's the most scalable thing in the planet.

SPEAKER_00:

Safety. We do a safety class. You know what makes safety fun again? Actually, uh, I said, uh, you know, I talked to everybody uh when they come in. I'm like, have you been OSHA trained? Because we don't need to do OSHA in our world. And that's you know, some will say, Oh, yes, I'm OSHA 10. I'm like, great. I said, Did you like the classes? Uh I said, Okay, you're lying. You didn't. I said, So our safety classes, we start it with uh here's our slogan don't do stupid shit. Yeah. And then and then next thing you know, everybody perks up, like, uh, okay, I'll listen now. Yeah, no kidding.

SPEAKER_04:

Because you're right. I was I was uh told him a story about our electrician who who lost uh sight in one of his eyes, and and then and I relate that to him. I said, uh I want you to think about sitting down to dinner with your wife, your your uh sweetie, your fiance, whoever it is, and I want you to think about leaning in towards her over the candlelight and having her gaze into your eye. Oh wait, you're supposed to have two.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, I'm stealing that, and I'm gonna take credit for it, Jim. And uh Ellen will attest to that.

SPEAKER_02:

I do steal all of his stuff, and I steals a lot of stuff and he forgets where he got it from. That's the problem, too.

SPEAKER_00:

Did I mention I have this great thing I do at Chris?

SPEAKER_02:

No, I did anyway. Hey, Jim, when you when you acquire a company, it how do you make sure your culture permeates the new entity versus the other way around?

SPEAKER_04:

Wow, what a great question. So um there's some rules that we have always used, and they're simple rules. Um, and it depends upon um your target when you're acquiring. So, first number one, and I'm gonna make it PG-rated because the other version was not PG rated, but no, that go ahead, because Chris has already blown that out of the water four and a half years. Well, we don't work with jerks. Oh, yeah, we don't work with jerks, and and and that means if you're spending time with someone and and you're realizing that you would not want to spend time with them at the bar, at the bowling alley, at the trap range, wherever you have fun, if you wouldn't want to have fun with them, why would you want to sit in a boardroom with them? Okay, and then and then when you look a little further, if you're going into a market to actually acquire more market share, then you want to look and say, hey, are they a dominant player in their industry for more than one customer? I mean, unless you're doing um uh for a lot of little lot of little customers, then or like a lot or homeowners, but are they dominant in that marketplace? Then that's like that's uh you know another box you can check. And number three, are their financial squared away? Because if if they can't count, I'm not gonna count for them. I don't like I I I got a CFO, but I'm not gonna saddle him with somebody who can't count. And then and then there's other uh like lesser things, but you you as you do your due diligence and you drill down into that, the more you drill, the more you find. And the last one is be certain. If you're looking across the table at your wife, my wife and I have been married for 45 years, and and if I sit across the table from her and I think, I don't really know if this is gonna work out. See, that's a problem. Because when you merge with someone or when you acquire someone, they're coming in and hopefully for the long haul. So you got to make sure they got some runway left too. Because uh, but then as far as making sure their culture fits yours, you better do that pre-acquisition. Because if I'm all about safety and they're like, uh yeah, that's pretty important. I'm like, well, no, it's not pretty important. It's like I have walked down the sidewalk to say, hey, your husband's in the hospital, and it's midnight, and I'm gonna tell you he's gonna be okay, but you have to come with me. And anybody who's made that 50-yard walk up a sidewalk at midnight knows exactly what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh boy, yeah. So uh talk to me just real quick about the business you did start with your husband. Wait, wait, now with your husband. Oh my god, uh, with your son. You said it was telecommunications, but it sounds like you were doing some grinding, some work, some installations. Tell us a little bit more about that.

SPEAKER_04:

So we built wireless infrastructure, starting with towers, and then a lot of rooftops in in dense urban areas, and then we started a a generator business where we put standby power in, and we did a lot of residences that way, so it was a service business, but then you do oil changes on those and and you repair them. But that quickly morphed into only commercial, and that must be boring, Chris. No, God, I actually yawning, man. Wow, he is yawed busted. Damn it.

SPEAKER_02:

Not scored, everybody. Such a short attention span, I'm telling you. Thank you for calling him out.

SPEAKER_00:

Here it I was thrilled with this stuff because when you say telecommunications, I honestly was thinking wireless hall of fame. I was thinking this guy liked to sit behind a desk and do a bunch of coding. These guys are out there doing the heavy lifting stuff, man. I thought that's why I want to do this.

SPEAKER_04:

Uh ground clearing, foundations, excavation, foundation, stacking the steel, hanging the antennas, cabling down to a base transmitting station, uh, running power. And a lot of people think wireless just operates all wireless. No, we bring fiber from the phone system to the tower, and that's what carries your message.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, that that's so I was interested, but thank you for the call out. God, I got two of you. Now I'm two on one. All right, I'm used to this now.

SPEAKER_04:

Alan paid me for that. I've ready, Alan.

SPEAKER_00:

You're my favorite guest. Um, so I mean, obviously, this is uh that because you talked about taking that walk to talk to somebody. I was like, so what'd they do? Like get a hangnail on their computer. I mean, did a keyboard pop off their eye? And they're like, no, no, man. We were we're literally doing the infrastructure that people don't realize that's blue-collar-related.

SPEAKER_01:

He started as a welder.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, well, this was in a manufacturing plant in a previous job, and there were two fingers laying on the ground, and they called me for a could to go pick up his fingers on the night shift. So uh, I was the general manager of that uh manufacturing facility, and I did pick up his fingers, and I did get him to the hospital a little too late, and I did go get his wife and bring her to the hospital, and it was not I I call that the the the longest walk I've ever taken, that distance between my car and her porch. Uh it's just it's just it's more awful than I could explain.

SPEAKER_02:

Did they did they get the fingers back on? Negative.

SPEAKER_04:

Too late.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh pack them in ice.

SPEAKER_04:

We did, but they were also laying in sawdust.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, I want to know, did you did you use like a a paper towel to pick them up or did you just pick them up?

SPEAKER_04:

I just picked them up, man. I was I well, this is in the pre uh this is yeah, this is in the 90s, so we weren't worried about communicable diseases, and I wasn't gonna get COVID from my finger. I love it, or any of those other bloodborne.

SPEAKER_00:

Finger by finger, yeah, success with Jim Tracy. Yeah, so obviously, I'd be I love that uh you did this. You've mentioned uh the private equity exit one, private exit uh equity exit two. Well, when did that become a strategy with you and your son? Is you because you started in 2000, 1999. Yeah, that probably wasn't in the business plan at the time, uh, after 18 years, but talk a little bit about how that evolved.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, I always uh I I always knew that I had to build our business so it would be attractive for somebody else to buy. I was trained in my corporate career for that, so I kind of I kind of set that table or set those expectations, both for growth and revenue and and margin profile and customer concentration. So I knew a little bit. Um, and so that's how we built the business. So my son had, since he was eight years old, always wanted to be a rancher. And he came to me one day and he said, Dad, I'm 13 years into a five-year commitment. And uh, if I don't go be a rancher pretty soon, I'm not gonna be able to. So that's when we made the decision that we're gonna transition to somebody else who could help us grow the business. I was gonna stay involved, which I did, and and and Ryan moved into the ranching world. And I have a first generation rancher son, and I'm really proud of him. Um, but uh where's he a rancher? Uh in in Washington State. No kidding, eastern Washington, Eastern Washington, correct. Yeah, wow. And uh and so and he's incredibly successful taking it right to market. It's really cool. But because he's a businessman, before he's a rancher, he just doesn't he just wouldn't recognize that part of it. Um, but uh yeah, we we we went into a broad uh auction um into the into the marketplace and ended up with uh quite a few offers. Uh one was incredibly attractive from hey, here's my buddies, Tower Arch Capital, yeah, out of Salt Lake City. They were a private equity company along with Intertech and East Tech's Tower that we kind of merged these three together and then we added a couple more into it, but that was in 2018, and then we rolled that. Uh, we grew it enough and kept it profitable enough to roll it to another private equity firm that that uh made that acquisition called Ontivity in 2019, and they're going strong today.

SPEAKER_00:

Now, are you actively involved at all? Uh or is are you on the board or anything involved with that?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I'm I'm uh I'm a shareholder yet and I'm on the board, and I'm incredibly grateful that um that they take advice from a entrepreneur still, because private equity folks a lot of times have their methodology, and uh, and I'm just grateful that these folks are listening.

SPEAKER_00:

No, that's awesome. I love that. And so let's talk about this because I I've been dying to ask this question. Let's get to it. The Grampian podcast. What is the Grampian?

SPEAKER_04:

Okay, so uh I'll make a short story long. Um, my grandson Wesley and I were playing cribbage at a lake cabin, and I beat him. And Wesley is an incredibly competitive young man. At this point, he's probably 13 years old, and he stands up and throws down his cards and says, You're not grandpa. And I'm like, What are you talking about, Sonny boy? Them fighting words. And he said, Well, you're not a champion either. And I'm like, that's weird. And then he got that Wesley Rye smile on his face. He says, You're the Grampian. And I'm like, Whoa! And it stuck. And a lot of my grandkids, I got 20 grandkids now. Holy cow, a lot of my grandkids will call me the grampian on a regular basis. So that's where that can't be. I would not be so bold as to give myself that moniker. Um, but what I would do is uh is say, uh, if I earn it, man, I'll wear it. I love that. And so now it's yeah, grandpa chats with champions. And so I get really cool people that I and I learn so much. The best part about podcasting is like you learn an incredible amount from these guests. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_00:

I have to say that uh that was not my motive, obviously, in the beginning, and that has definitely been an outcome and unintended consequence, which I talk about a lot in my businesses. Yeah, uh, is the amazing people we get to talk to. And just um, I get charged up after getting together with Alan, and people ask me, You've been doing it for four and a half years. And I said, you know, there's uh times where I took a break um and we had banked a couple of of episodes, and I came back and he says, Hey, what's going on? I said, Well, I was just I was kind of in the dumps. I said, But I was seriously looking forward to getting back in here and talking with you and getting a chance to talk to other great people that we wouldn't have a chance to talk to. So I think this has been amazing. Yeah, you're I agree with you 100%. Yeah. All right, let's keep going, talking about the Grampian. You're doing the podcast. How long have you been doing it?

SPEAKER_04:

Um, you know, uh interesting story. That legacy business that I talked to you about. I I walked in our shop one day out in the back, and there was a guy there that I didn't know. And and I'm like, I'm like, who are you? Like, why are you in my shop? And he turned to me and he kind of smiled and he said, Well, will I work for you? And I was like, Oh, I didn't even know his name. And then we were up to three locations. So I'm like, I'm not able to input in their lives anymore, and I really want to. So we started what we called Legacy Radio, and it was a call-in, it was a mandatory call-in where I just went on a 15-minute explanation of the who, the why, the where, the what we were doing, the how is it going, the safety initiatives. Uh, you know, if it's Thanksgiving, we talked about being grateful. It was about Christmas, we talked about, you know, the season coming up and and uh and and why it was why things were important. And what I got to do was unveil my heart in front of our people. And I did it's really funny because the first show that we did was live. And my one of the guys who was helping me on the technology side, he said, he said, you you can't do this live. You let there's no way you're gonna take questions, and they're gonna be questions that you don't like or you can't answer, and you're gonna be embarrassed in front of your whole staff. And I'm like, Nah, we're doing it live. I like it.

SPEAKER_00:

Ah, damn the torpedoes. So there goes demon.

SPEAKER_04:

So the very first version of it, this guy comes on the line. He says, Jim, um, I'd like to uh ask you a question. And uh um and I'm like, All right, man, go ahead. And he said, How much do you make? And I said, Wow, that's a great question. How much do you make? And he said, Well, I don't really want to say in front of all these people. I'm like, Cool, me neither. So, next question and we worked our way through it, and I and and if you're just transparent with people, I mean, if I can say nunya, and people understand that nunya business. Yeah, or or I can say I don't know. And when and when people grab a hold of that transparency, it's a benefit. They trust you then, because you can say, hey, I don't know, but next week I'm gonna have the answer for you. And so that turned into on radio when we merged all these companies together, and and that turned into video and not live. And then when I when I kind of exited the on radio thing, we went to Grampian and we've done 100 episodes, and uh, and it's really I mean, we have 60,000 YouTube subscribers now, and I can't even imagine why anybody would be stupid enough to listen to me for that. But apparently they like the guests.

SPEAKER_02:

And and and now you're you you uh you're a keynote speaker. Yeah. And so is your primary topic leadership?

SPEAKER_04:

Um, it used to be when I first started, it was. Um, but what I found is that um uh I did a speech in Colorado and I said, Hey man, I'm gonna come and give you the seven C's of leadership. It's gonna be awesome. Stand by for news. And they said, Yeah, we don't want that. Uh the economy is uncertain. Everybody's worried about keeping their job or getting a job or whether they're gonna be laid off or whether their dub or two is gonna say, hey, sorry, no bonus. So he the economy is incredibly uncertain. We'd like you to talk about that. And so I came to the point where I said, Hey, let's embrace uncertainty. Because if you think about it for a minute, and this is part of the keynote, if you think about it, are interest rates gonna go up or are they gonna go down?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, they're starting to trend down right now.

SPEAKER_04:

But they can go back up.

SPEAKER_00:

The answer is yes, they can go up, and they definitely could go down.

SPEAKER_04:

If you prepare for them to go up, and if you prepare for them to go down and your competitor doesn't, do you have an advantage? Yes. Oh, embrace that uncertainty. Well, what about unemployment rates? What if they go up or what if they go down? Yes. So prepare for both. And and that preparation makes you a more formidable opponent for any competitor. So let's embrace that uncertainty by preparation and then execution. So if you prepare for it and don't do anything about it, then that just makes you kind of, you know, there you should probably go into accounting or something. Sorry for all the accountants out there, but um, you know, somebody's got to count the beans. Uh or the lawyers, they studio for them.

SPEAKER_00:

Where did that phrase come from, by the way? Count the beans.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, who knows?

SPEAKER_00:

Beans never up. Beans was never a commodity.

SPEAKER_04:

So it might have been a commodity.

SPEAKER_00:

Maybe it was. All right. We'll go.

SPEAKER_04:

Maybe it was so important it was a it was a currency.

SPEAKER_00:

Jim, you actually hit something that's very topical, and that's the the uncertainty of the world. And um, where we are uh right now, and I think probably for a little while is uncertainty. Are tariffs gonna play? Yes. Are tariffs gonna be applied? Yes. Are they not gonna be applied? Yes. Guess what? You don't know, you just gotta keep going. Uh think you know, like I say, always there's only two things certain in life, tech, death, and taxes. But yeah, I think managing through the uncertainty and understanding your clients, understanding your customers you serve and their uncertainty has helped us and our sales pitch talk about oh yeah, how to do that. It's been difficult because it's a it's a hard conversation to talk about that with people who are uncertain.

SPEAKER_04:

So yeah, but if you anticipate it, if you anticipate it, then then you create an uh then you understand their objection. And if you understand their objection, then you can, I don't want to say counter it because but but you can logically address it as a concern that says, Hey, um, I understand so I understand how you feel. I've felt that way myself, but the truth is here, and when you explain it like that, people go like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, I got to go back to one thing you said. Uh somebody said, Hey, how much do you make? Um, I actually hit that right in front of the head because I do the uh the I bring my guys in all around Atlanta and Athens uh zooms in. And so one day I said, Let me tell you uh what I've heard. Uh I said, I haven't heard it in this room. I've heard it from a group of other people who own their own businesses. Uh, and it's a study out there that says that you guys think that if you collect a thousand dollar check, we're a handyman, so our you know, our average ticket is anywhere between$1,500 for a time of materials to a$3,200 uh sales shop. You think for every thousand that Chris gets$400 of those? I said, let me break it down for you. I said, Here, here, here, here, here. If I'm lucky and everything goes right, of those thousand, I'll be lucky to see 50. And with that 50, then I get to go do what? Buy those trucks and do these other things and do this. I said, So we're all working for the same thing. And I said, I just sitting in front of you telling you this is where we're gonna go and this is where we're gonna do with certainty. But to use your term, I said, but guess what? I'm in the same boat as you guys. I said, and I tell the sales guys, nobody wants to be out there doing what you do. Um, I don't think. Think you guys want to be in sales? And I said, I'm pretty damn sure nobody in here wants to be walking into QuickBooks after this meeting like I'm about to. And I never said the term counting the beans, but nobody wants to be doing that because they want to be out there working with their hands, doing their thing. Now, uh, here we are as the Grampian doing this. Are you back to actually doing anything with your hands, like the welding? Are you doing any creating like that anymore?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I'm hunting ducks. Nice. So where do you live? Uh Boise, Idaho, in the Boise area, a little town called Eagle.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. So you're out there hunting, hunting, shooting shit. Gotta get it done.

SPEAKER_04:

That's we were hunting ducks this morning with my son-in-law on the Snake River, man. It was awesome.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh man, Snake River. So Alan's jelly because he's from Oregon originally. Um, and that's why he knew the ranchers in east uh eastern Washington.

SPEAKER_02:

Because they're they're not in western Washington for sure.

SPEAKER_00:

That's right. That's tech people.

SPEAKER_04:

Man, it's been awesome. So oh no, it's not the tech people, it's the crazies. No, uh, we I I lived in the Seattle market for 27 years, and I am definitely a refugee. Yeah, well, you got out.

SPEAKER_02:

Get over the mountains. Man, Jay, we're coming up on the end of the day. I do have an answer. I want to hear where did count the beans come from. Count the beans came primarily from ancient Greek democracy, where white and black beans were used for secret voting, making bean counters impartial election officials.

SPEAKER_00:

How about that? So it's not about money.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, it never was like all right.

SPEAKER_02:

There we go.

SPEAKER_04:

Taylor's we could use those today. We could use an impartial election.

SPEAKER_00:

We should go back to beans. Yeah. This uh, you know what? Maybe we should make this a political podcast. And along with true crime, true crime is still gonna be the killer winner. Uh Jim, man, we're coming up on the end of this thing. This has been awesome. So, how can everybody find you out there uh and find your podcast, etc.?

SPEAKER_04:

You know, uh, I guess the easiest way is on YouTube, just look up uh the Grampian, G-R-A-M-P-I-O-N, uh, Grampian Podcast, or uh the jimtracy.com. There's so there's more than one Jim Tracy. I'm like the fifth or sixth, so no, but I am the Jim Tracy. You are the Jim Tracy.

SPEAKER_00:

There's only one in my book and Alan's book. You're number one in our hearts, Jim.

SPEAKER_02:

No, no, the Jim Tracy. When's Wesley gonna figure out he he needs to get a cut of the Grampian branding?

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, Wesley has no Wesley has no problem demanding that. Let me tell you. This is the cover of the book, and that's Wes on the cover of the book. Now he wants name, image, and likeness. Nice.

SPEAKER_00:

You go, Wes. Oh, I like this kid. Can I say four taste?

SPEAKER_02:

Make me feel good about the future when we got kids like Wes.

SPEAKER_00:

You know what? I want more of those kids. I love that. I love having those kids uh who are asking for it. You know, uh Austin, just a quick story. Austin was uh at a home show with me, and it was late. It was Saturday evening. The show closes at six, it's 5 55. Here comes a lady. I did. I profiled, looked at her. She didn't look like she had the right clothes on. I was tired. I walk away. My son sticks a brochure and says, Hey ma'am, but here's what we do. And he gives her the whole line. I hear him doing the shtick. I'm like, so proud of my son. Way to go. And then uh she turns around and says, Well, tell me you're young man. And she comes up and she says, This impressive young man says, You guys know how to remodel bathrooms. I said, Yes, we do. She goes, Well, I want to get mine done. I'm like, All right, well, let me come out there and look. Going back now, I she has spent over$350,000 with my company.

SPEAKER_02:

Wow, what a good story that is.

SPEAKER_00:

But Cha Ching. And he says, But my son, who's now in law school, uh, immediately the year after says, Hey Dad, where's my cut?

unknown:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I said, Your cut is you're going to law school.

SPEAKER_04:

So this is your you know, one thing I learned is is uh Ryan raised four boys on that ranch that we talked about, and and I can tell you that as an employer, if you get an employee who can read a tape measure, you just hired a farm kid.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, and a kid is not afraid to get any get dirty and could do anything. Yeah, I'll pick, I'll pick this up, I'll pick that up, I'll put that up, I'll do this. Yeah, they they learn amazing life skills that they don't realize are success skills, yeah, for sure, regardless of what you do, white color, blue collar, etc. So yeah, all right, Jim. I don't know if you're ready for this, but we gotta ask you these final four questions. Uh-oh. What is a favorite book you would tell the adventure team of the small business safari that they need to read? That you didn't um that you didn't write. And Jim's got four that I didn't write.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, I would, you know, I sit down every morning and I read the Bible in a year. It breaks the Bible into 365 readings. You get a little Psalms, a little Proverbs, a little New Testament, a little Old Testament. And I think that keeps me grounded.

SPEAKER_00:

Nice. Well, you can't beat the good book. Although we did just today say um that the book uh we talked about how you run a uh a uh a board meeting, and we use the Robert's rules of board meeting etiquette, right? Well, there's the lady says, This book's as thick as a Bible. And one lady says, Well, we need a smaller one, and I don't know if I like that. I mean, I like Bible, but I don't want that. I said, I said, so let me get this straight. Bible good, Robert's rules of board running. You want to shoot? She goes, Yes. I said, Okay, just want to make sure it's all on the record so nobody thinks that Gabrielle does not like the Bible. All right, Bible good. Thank you, Chip. We've all right, we could all do that. All right, what's the favorite feature of your home? Ooh, and it can't be um that you can shoot ducks from your backyard or your basement or your bedroom.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, that was it. Yeah, okay, you just spoiled that one, but I think the pool, I I'd never had a pool before. And when we moved to Idaho, I got a pool. And I think that um most uh most days after work, I just like I just like fall over into that thing. And my wife, my wife is Dutch, and so she says, you know, you don't need to heat that to 88. And I smile and I say, but I can.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh but I can. I do have to ask, you've got a pretty cool looking office. What you have an American flag in a in a case there. What what is that representing?

SPEAKER_04:

Um, so that was given to me. It was flown over the United States Capitol, and I had a U.S. Congressman and senator present me with that flag on the day that I was uh inducted into the Wireless Hall of Fame.

SPEAKER_00:

Wireless Hall of Fame was going to bring it up, but he brought it up for me. He's in the Wireless Hall of Fame, but he was the one actually out there doing the hard work, the digging, the landscaping, putting up, putting the stuff up. Not not you specifically, but you knew what it took to do that stuff. And I'll bet you if something was going wrong, you probably grabbed the welder and started running the beach yourself. So hey man, I a shovel. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

You can find me on a shovel, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I actually had my plumber from Jefferson said, Can that man work a shovel? I said, I don't know. He goes, Boys today don't know if they know how to work shovel. Yeah, I said that's my plumber from Jefferson, Georgia. Love him. Bob A is always in perpetuity. God rest his peace. All right, let's go. You ready? Yep. We gotta talk customer service. Jim's all into it. Jim, we are big into customer service. We haven't talked about a lot of it, but we talked about taking care of people who take care of our people. Alan's kind of a customer service freak. He's kind of crazy about this. What's a customer service pet peeve of yours when you're the customer? Um if you say Wednesday, don't come Thursday.

SPEAKER_04:

Don't even bother. It our contract is already broken, whether it be verbal, written, or implied. If you want, if you if if you want to do it, if you want a deadline on on Wednesday, then tell me Thursday and have it done on Wednesday, and I'll be happy, happy, happy.

SPEAKER_00:

Happy, happy, happy. Ooh, that's a phrase. Where'd that come from? Duck Dynasty. Yeah, rest in peace to him too.

SPEAKER_04:

Bill Robertson, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, that was a good one. Yeah, I agree with you. You know, your your word is your bond. We talk about this a lot, especially in the trade world that uh we're in, tradies being from Australia. But here as contractors, we are notorious for telling you what you what you want to hear, but we think you want to hear, and not give you the bad news.

SPEAKER_02:

And in his scenario, I'd be fine if you said Thursday. And we have Wednesday. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not that hard, but you're like it's called underpromise and over deliver.

SPEAKER_00:

100%. And and people, I I keep telling the guys, I've never had anybody ever sit there and scream at me because I was early.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I hate you because you're early. Now, I hate you because you're late, has a different connotation.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Then they're throwing their checkbook away.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, you're not doing it. I was I was actually going the other way. He's got 20 grandkids. He goes, Hey, I'm late. What? Oh, check it.

SPEAKER_02:

Sometimes you should just whisper in my ear before you say it. Was that yeah? I didn't use my insight list.

SPEAKER_00:

I used to use my. You know, I was thinking it. I was thinking I probably shouldn't say it.

SPEAKER_04:

But it comes out, but it just comes out.

SPEAKER_00:

It just came out when I'm done. All right, last thing. Give us a DIY nightmare story. Okay. I want I want some good ones too.

SPEAKER_04:

So you can as a builder, I was I did a I did a uh I did a project, and uh you know how you lay hardwood floors either this way or this way, okay. And if you have a long hallway and you lay it this way, then you gotta sand it that way. And so you get little cup on both sides. And um, the poor lady that I'd built the house for, she came up the steps because she had surgery on both feet, she came up on her knees and her elbows, and she rested at the with the front door wide open, and she could look down that hallway and she could see the cup. Well, that's not fair. She's on her hands and knees. Well, that's the only way you'd ever see it, but she she began to weep. Um and and I redid that I redid that floor four more times. And I finally had to get my wife and say, you need to deal with her because I can't do this again. And my wife actually took care of her. So uh, but but to have somebody cry over some some piece of work that you did that was actually actually it was pretty fantastic. Um and all four times. But that's a DIY nightmare.

SPEAKER_02:

It's a customer nightmare.

SPEAKER_04:

That one is well, I guess that is, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I don't know, but uh we can explain like it's it's just the curvature of the earth or something like that. I'm telling you, man, I how about uh I'll give you guys another great one. This is a contractor nightmare story. Um, lady says, I want an accent wall in my in my sitting room, and my guys uh and I quoted it and I said yes. When they got there, she said not only did she not want flat nor satin, she wanted a semigloss wall. And they went and bought and put on semigloss. She said, Chris, you guys have ruined my house. And she was in tears on the phone when I got out there. She actually got a ladder and put blue tape all over this accent wall. There was more blue tape on this wall than actual paint. That's how bad it was. I said, Wendy, I think I got the point. I said, but let's talk a little bit more about what we're talking about. I said, Do you know how buildings are made and how this wall works? And and um she did listen. It did take me about three hours. Yeah, uh, that's about how long it took for me to to tell her that we went back. We finally agreed to go back to an eggshell. Yeah, but it was unreal. But to have somebody tell you how bad you guys are after, by the way, that was one accent wall, and this was not a hating man project. We had done$25,000 worth of work, and everything else was just perfect because she is very, very OCD, clearly. But but more blue tape than paint on a wall.

SPEAKER_04:

You know what the good news is? You don't have to do it again, but the bad news is you'll never get those three hours back, man.

SPEAKER_00:

Never get those three hours back. Just like this podcast, you guys got to learn something. You gotta have a lot of time investing in this. I know you're probably listening to the truck. I know you're out there slogging, driving. Hopefully, you're getting something out of this, man, because we're in this together. Hey, brother, come on, send me an email, Chris at the trusted toolbox.com. Let me know. Love hearing from you guys. But you got the Grampian on here, and you learn something out of this because we got to learn something. We got to keep going. Let's fly to those clouds, get out of those clouds, get to the moon. We gotta go. Cheers, everybody. All right. Thanks, guys. Thanks. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Small Business Department. Remember, your positive attitude will help you achieve that higher altitude you're looking for in the wild world of small business ownership. And until next time, make it a great day.

Head Shot

Chris Lalomia

Host
Head Shot

Alan Wyatt

Co-host