Credit Is The Foundation | Gerri Detweiler

What if your credit is the one thing quietly limiting how fast your business can grow?

Summary: Gerri Detweiler, credit expert and education advocate at Nav, breaks down why credit is one of the most misunderstood—and most important—tools for small business owners. We get into the difference between personal and business credit, how lenders actually evaluate you, and why chasing quick fixes can backfire. Gerri shares practical strategies to build strong credit, manage cash flow during tough seasons, and avoid the traps that derail entrepreneurs. If you want to grow smarter, borrow better, and protect your business, this episode is a must-listen.

🎥 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheSmallBusinessSafari

💡 GOLD NUGGETS
• Personal + business credit both impact your growth
• Why business credit feels confusing and less transparent
• There is no “one score”—lenders look at multiple factors
• What lenders consider a solid starting score
• Fix cash flow before chasing credit repair
• Credit utilization and why paying early matters
• How personal guarantees work (and fade over time)
• Business credit cards as a starting tool—and risks to watch
• Safer options when cash gets tight vs. risky fast financing
• Free help from SBDCs and where to find them
• AI-driven fraud and loan scams to avoid

🔗 Guest Links
• Website: https://nav.com/gerri

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gerridetweiler/

gerridetweiler.com

🌍 Follow The Small Business Safari
• Instagram | @smallbusinesssafaripodcast
• LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrislalomia/
• Website | https://chrislalomia.com

Thanks to our sponsor Smart Hire Solutions LLC!

Transcript

Fraud Texts And Link Traps

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Right.

SPEAKER_04 0:00

So uh I'm just like sucking my thumb here.

SPEAKER_02 0:03

So a great, great question on this. And since we're talking about credit, one way. Thank you. You did good. Um, it reminded me not of my question, but of the something I want to tell everybody. If you get a text message about so you set up a credit relationship with your credit card as you're setting up your business or doing whatever, or your bank, especially with your bank. Uh, and that reminded me of my question. Thank God I found it. Oh, because you were gonna be so pissed when you woke up at two in the morning with a question. Which I would, yeah. And then I go back to sucking my thumb thinking about why did I start a business? So we go back to this. All right, Jerry. So uh when a credit card company reaches out to you and says you've had a fraudulent transaction, never click on that link. Always go call the number that's on the back of your card and say, I've been contacted about this. Is there a question in there? No. Now, uh, so that's an F that's a PSA. I was just trying to help out my fellow brothers. Such a good Jerry, as I start a business, is it important to have a look because you said business is a little bit more relationship-based as opposed to transactional based. I'm using different words than you used, credit scores for consumers, all numbers. For business, there's a way where you can do a little relationship talking. You can get some tell me, how do you develop a local commercial banking relationship? And and should we all have one?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

I do think it's great to have a good commercial banking relationship. It's not going to be the only, it's not going to be the only type of you were that worked up over there.

Meet Jerry Detweiler

SPEAKER_02 1:26

I was. This is a very important question for me. It is important. Yeah, it is important. Thank you, Jerry, for validating me. So, and and close your ears, Jerry, because you're from Taylor University. Fuck you, Al. Welcome to the Small Business Safari, where I help guide you to avoid those traps, pitfalls, and dangers that lurk when navigating the wild world of small business ownership. I'll share those gold nuggets of information and invite guests to help accelerate your extent to that mountaintop of success. It's a jungle out there, and I want to help you traverse through the levels of owning your own business that can get you bogged down and distract you from hitting your own personal and professional goals. So strap in Adventure Team and let's take a ride through this safari to get you to the mountain. Alan, I am feeling financially distraught, but I'm going to part the Red Sea and I am going to make it over to the top and get there to that outcome that's going to be there.

SPEAKER_04 2:24

You have a twinkle in your eye, and I have no idea where you're going. I know. Just hanging on our visual.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

Today is Jerry Tetweiler. And I'm what Jerry doesn't know is I did way too much stalking on Jerry. And I know where Jerry went to school. You do? Jerry went to Taylor University in Indiana. I did. How do I know that? I know that because uh, and how do I know Taylor University? Well, I am here in Atlanta, Georgia. We're in Johns Creek. Everybody, you know that. We're we love Atlanta. We are Atlanta, y'all. Okay, I'm from Atlanta. How's your mama named? How's your mama named? Because Al and I are talking stuff. But my good friend, his father never went to uh college, and he became a super successful business person. We've had him on the podcast, and Taylor University and him had a kinship because he is very faith-based, very Christian man, and he had a lot of wherewithal to give. And so he gave to a university called Taylor University. It's now and it is, and it's the Ken Cornwall School of Business. Go there, uh Jerry. If you ever look it up, you'll see that it's there. But what they're really best known for is that basketball tradition of the silent basket. And my favorite one is guys, if you want to go see some really entertaining basketball, Taylor University has a good little basketball program. They're a D3 star D3 or the N. It doesn't matter. Guys, look it up. Go Google this one Taylor University Red C. And you want to see some kids who have some good old Midwestern fun, as Ellen liked to say, that's it. Jerry, did you get to participate? Did they do that back when you went to school there?

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Um, I do not recall that, and I was a business major, so the business uh the school must have uh been after I attended there.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

But we're in 2026, they just renamed it 2024.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Okay. And I have not been back since 20 for a while. So um, yeah, but we're not dating ourselves. Yeah, we're not dating ourselves at all. Um, you know, uh my my my very vivid memory of Taylor. Well, we were in the middle of a cornfield, but we had a great ice cream shop. So Ivans. So if you ever get up there, you want ice cream from Ivan's.

SPEAKER_04 4:43

It's so wholesome in the Midwest.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

It's just so wholesome.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Shout out to Taylor University. Uh, they have some great traditions. Uh what's the nearest town of substance?

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Probably Muncie. I mean, that's and that's not huge.

SPEAKER_04 4:57

I was gonna say for most people outside the Midwest. So what's the next one?

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Jerry, read your audience here. We're talking Atlanta, six and a half million people in the metro Atlanta area. We are bigger than the uh the third place uh Olympic finisher in the Winter Olympics. So when you say Muncie, Indiana, that is literally one uh that's just a that's just a pible on the butt, as we like to say down here in Georgia. Yeah, we can't say that after I just did all the crispy. Let's get this thing going. Jerry Detwaller, uh, she is not only a noted author, she is a well-published author. She is voluminous. I mean, she's like JK Rowing. She just can't stop writing. She just keeps writing and writing and writing and writing and trying to help people get out of credit hell. I have a feeling we're gonna hear a lot of mistakes that we've made today. Oh, so no, I did not invite my wife to this podcast. No, I did not. Thank you. I get plenty of that every day. Whereas my brother likes to call his wife his executive coach.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

There you go. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

I'm gonna use that. He goes, and every once in a while, my executive coach doesn't know when the when the when the mentee needs a little break. Isn't that awesome?

SPEAKER_04 6:08

It's fantastic.

Why Business Credit Is Opaque

SPEAKER_02 6:09

I got Alan on the guttural laugh. He's got him out. Jerry, thank you for joining us uh today to talk about credit um and and talk about all that. But let's let's talk about the journey before we talk about what you can do to help us all get out of financial health. Um save us, Jerry. Save us, Jerry, save us all. Damn nation. Take me through the sea, get me to the other end. Um so how did you get in that wild world of credit and that crazy world?

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Yeah, so that that school in Indiana sent me on an internship program to Washington, D.C. I ended up staying after college, uh, worked for a nonprofit. And at the time, if you wanted a low interest rate credit card, you'd send us$4 in the mail and we would mail you a list of low interest rate credit cards, mostly out of Arkansas, because Arkansas had caps on interest rates. And uh, and that was my foray into that world. And the the credit report and credit score stuff came up slightly later, but not that much later, because at that time uh credit reports weren't free. They weren't in plain English, no one knew what a FICO score was. And so um I was part of the consumer group coalitions who you know went to Congress and and managed to get the free credit reports um as part of you know, part of our rights and a lot of transparency to credit. And so that that was fun. And then about 12, 15 years ago, I shifted a little bit toward business credit. And business credit is a lot like personal credit was when I started my career. So it's there's not the same level of transparency. So it's it's you know, it's been a it's been a very interesting journey.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Sure has. I mean, uh again, nobody ever really says, I'm gonna get in the credit world and it's gonna be interesting. Uh, as a guy who got into banking and ended up in the credit world uh in banking, I was there uh in a totally different capacity, but uh I did learn a lot about credit at the time and and why it's so important and what's going on and why I had totally not done it. I mean, I've done some things right. I mean, the basics when you get out of school, I get it.

SPEAKER_04 8:09

I'm just marveling at how she just casually mentions that she's basically changed the consumer protection landscape without drawing attention to herself, unlike you know, somebody else in the room. Can't think of anybody else.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

Alan, did I mention where I was last weekend? No, I uh no. Did I did I mention who I was playing?

SPEAKER_04 8:27

Jerry, I gotta say, it's it's it's been at least what how we three, four minutes in, and he hasn't mentioned you know President and Neri or the book that he wrote or any of this. I mean, that's impressive. It is, but not I didn't show restraint, but she she set the example of how you drop. But let's let's just slid in there.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

Yeah, she did she's subtle. She did subtle drops. Yeah, those only just nick the knees a little bit as she came down. Um, yeah, I so where was I going? Oh, talking about the credit, yeah. So it's not a fascinating world, but it is when you understand that it's a foundation and it's a a foundational success habit for a lot of us, personally and uh business-wise. And that's where the thing, I think a lot of times we just don't take a step back to go, if I'm gonna build a house, I gotta put my foundation in. And the credit really is your foundation. So talk a little bit about uh building that foundation of credit.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Yeah. So I mean, these days I'm focused primarily on business credit, but as you well know, being entrepreneurs yourself, that you gotta you have to have personal credit and business credit. You can't you can't exclusively focus on one or the other if you want to open up your opportunities and horizons. And so, you know, one of the things that happens in the business credit world uh lately I've seen a lot of this where some influencers will make it sound like if you just build business credit, you can get all the financing your business needs. You'll never have to give personal guarantees, you'll never have to worry about your personal credit. And that's not typically the way it works. You know, it's a process. You usually start with personal credit and then you build on that, you build the business credit, you build the business itself, and then you can start moving away toward um toward business credit. So on the business credit side, I would say the biggest, the biggest hole or misconception or problem that I see is business owners just don't know about it. It's not very transparent. They don't, they haven't encountered it directly, and so they think it doesn't matter. But behind these scenes, you know, these business credit bureaus are big business. They're collecting and selling information about our businesses just like they do about us as consumers. And it can make or break decisions behind the scenes, and you may not know.

SPEAKER_04 10:43

Oh boy. All right, where do we start from that one? I'm just like, I want to like what does that look like to the average small business person?

SPEAKER_02 10:52

Well, you know, so uh obviously, uh Jerry, you know, our audience, uh solopreneurs and then building up and trying to scale a business. I don't know how else you don't start a business without good personal credit to start with. So I'm still so focused on that. Then eventually being able to go. Thank you, Ellen. Can we let Jerry answer more questions? Please. You know what? I'm using your mic now. That's enough of that.

SPEAKER_04 11:20

So uh going back to you know, no, I know you're right, you're working hard for it.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Um so have you worked with people we've got to start with personal first, right? I mean you have to. Okay. Let's talk about our personal uh credit. So, first thing we should do is we should find out this whole thing called our credit score, right? Is that is that still the key component? And that's why don't you talk a little bit about how the credit score is built?

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah, so you've got the three major consumer credit bureaus, Equifax, Xperia, and TransUnion. They're, you know, for-profit businesses in competition with each other. They um typically partner with FICO to uh who who provides the recipe for the credit score, right? The FICO doesn't have any information about how we pay our bills. So they the the FICO store score will draw on your credit report. So I do suggest that at least once a year you get the actual credit report. Because if the information on the credit report is not accurate, the credit score can't be accurate. Um, but then yeah, then it gets into the FICO score, which, as you probably know from your banking background, you know, there's not just one FICO score. So people will ask me all the time, well, what's the what's my most accurate score? It depends. If you go into an auto dealer, first of all, they have a choice of three bureaus to get that score, Equifax, Experian, or TransUnion, that's their choice. And then they're probably gonna use a score that is designed for an auto loan decision. So that's a FICO auto, one of the versions of the FICO auto scores. You apply for a credit card, and they're gonna use a probably a FICO bank card score, which is designed to make a decision about how likely you are to, you know, default on a credit card. So they're a little bit different. That's why you can check your credit score right now, go over to the auto dealer, and they can pull a credit score that could be somewhat different. But it's the underlying information in the credit report that is used to create the credit score. So if you focus on that and you focus on having a solid payment history, a variety of different accounts that you pay on time, and you don't let your balances on your credit cards creep too high, which is a big one for business owners. We should talk about that if we get a chance. Um we will then you you probably will have a good score no matter which you know model or scoring or which bureaus being used to pull the score.

What Counts As A Good Score

SPEAKER_02 13:49

So I think that's a couple things. Uh, as people go to first, go get a free credit score. You can get them, gosh, you can get them almost anywhere now. If you have a credit card, they'll give you one for free. If you go to Experian, uh um I just said Experian is a different story. Doesn't matter. One of the three credits to work, it's they'll give it to you for free. You can get the free credits. That's it's out there, freecreditreport.org. You can get there and find out where you are and where your baseline is. What is a good score? What is a score that's in the margin? And what's the score where you go? Maybe I shouldn't start my business.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Well, first of all, you can start a business even with bad credit. It's just depends on how you go about it. But um the yeah, so don't, don't, don't, let's not discourage everyone. The the on the credit score, you know, typically every lender's different, but typically I'm saying aid it aim for at least uh high 600s to get started. I mean, if you're in the 650 to 680 range, you're gonna have some decent credit cards available, some decent loans. Um, it's when you get higher that typically, at least on the consumer side, you're gonna get better rates, larger credit lines, et cetera. So you're in the 700s, maybe even 800s, the the FICO scores, most of them go up to 850. Um, so you're aiming for that range. It's when you are in the mid to low 600s or lower, and they go down to 300, it's that's when you really start to struggle with higher interest rates, more rejection, more predatory type lending.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

So you're a vicious circle at that point, right? It is a very vicious circle. Great point, Alan. And I but before we get into the vicious circle, I gotta go. Why who who, if you were there, Jerry, why did you not fix this? What why is it 300 to 850? That is so arbitrary. You couldn't pick zero to a hundred or give me zero to a thousand. Jerry, could you do a fix that for me?

SPEAKER_01 15:40

I mean, what the I did not work at FICO. Now, here's the story I told you. Here's the story I was told by someone who did work at FICO for many years.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Jerry, I'm blaming you now.

unknown 15:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

They said that um they said that they used like a zero to one thousand range, but there were there just wasn't that many consumers that fell in those other, you know, from the 850 above to the 300 lower. So they just honed in on this range of 300 to 850 that was most representative of most consumers scoring ranges. That's what I was told, you know.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

You know what? I like that, but I think we just um this reminds me of the uh the adage of this one is that I went over to my friend's house and um we had Christmas ham. And the ham was cut in three quarters and a quarter, and it it would come out. And I was, you know, I asked her the question. I'm like, why do you cut your ham in uh uh three quarters and a quarter? And she goes, that's the way my grandmother always did it. I said, if you ever asked your grandmother why you did that, and she said, No, I didn't. I said, Well, go back and ask your grandma, grandma, why'd you do that? She goes, Well, because my mom did. And my mom's still alive. Yeah, my great grandma's still alive. Great, ask her. Great grandma, why'd you do this? Well, back in the day, the hams were so big and the ovens were so small, we had to cut them in uh three-quarters and a quarters, and that's how we came to fit in there. So these guys, perfectly logical people, coming up with a perfectly logical answer that's still 100% asinine.

SPEAKER_04 16:59

And if I had told that story, you'd have cut me off on the first grandma. I would have. I know. See, I'm so patient.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

You are, thank you. Anyway, all right, so 350 to 800. Now let's talk about this. When you're in that lower cycle, uh, Alan talked about that. That is a definitely a death circle. And I've seen so many people do that. And actually, uh, I've seen two guys in my company now dig out of it while working at my company.

Escaping The Bad Credit Spiral

SPEAKER_04 17:21

And that's what I'm hoping to get on this podcast is because everybody knows, okay, you need to have a good credits, credit score, you need to keep your balances low, you need to pay your bills, blah, blah, blah. But then you you can't, or you get stuck, or you know, and and I'd love to know some strategies on how do you how do you get out of that.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Yeah, and I I don't want to under-emphasize how the curveballs that life throws at people that end up ruining their credit, because sometimes it's just, well, just pay your bills on time. And then you get a medical bill that you thought insurance was going to cover, and it's$2,500, and you can't, you know, you don't have the means to pay it, or you get a divorce, or you lose your job, and you have trouble finding a job, et cetera, et cetera. So there's lots of reasons why people run into credit problems. Um, the the first thing I'd say is a lot of times when people are in that situation, they think they need credit repair. My personal take is before the credit repair, you have to fix the problem. So usually that's fixing the financial issues that are going on, getting help with that debt, whether it's through a reputable counseling agency, whether it's through, you know, some type of debt settlement, or even for some people, it's bankruptcy. But getting the the that that bleeding stopped, right? So that's what you do first. And then you can start looking at the the credit repair side. And interestingly, if the if you've had really bad credit problems like a bankruptcy, you're you may find it faster to start fixing your credit than someone who's just had a few, you know, here and there problems because you're you're kind of being compared to other people in that same the the FICO score segments people into groups. And um, they're called scorecards within a you know particular scoring model. And so you're being compared to other people in that in the same group as you. And so a couple things that can help. First of all, remember that the scoring models are typically weighted more heavily toward more recent information. So as those late payments and problems that you had in the past get older, they typically carry less weight in the scoring model. So that means just time is your friend here. So that's hopefully a little bit reassuring to someone in this situation. The other thing is that um, the other big one that will come up is uh the credit utilization. And that's just the balances on your credit cards compared to the credit limit. So you have a thousand dollar credit limit on your credit report, you have a$500 balance, you have 50% utilization. And sometimes that trips up even people who pay in full because the credit card company doesn't usually wait to get your payment. They they they take the end of the month when you get your statement, your statement says, you know, you owe$573.62. You can make the minimum, you can pay the statement balance, you whatever, whatever it may be. Right? That's okay,$50,500. There you go. That's the business understanding.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

You're itching into it, you're itching in there. Keep going.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

And that's that's when they report the balance to the to the credit bureau. And that is what calculates the utilization. Um, I just went back and double-checked it on all my credit cards just to make sure I was still giving correct information. All of mine had the last statement balance as the last balance on my credit report. So sometimes in that situation, just paying a little bit early, going online, you know, making your payment five days before the end of the billing cycle ends might lower that balance.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

Oh, that's great advice. Huge gold nugget. That is a huge gold nugget. If you're trying to get out and you have the means, you want to pay that off five days before, not wait that 30 days after to pay it off with 29 days uh and 30, 23 hours, as I'm doing with my credit cards and my business.

SPEAKER_04 21:22

Anyway, back to Jerry, please. Is going to Vegas a good strategy for lowering your debt?

SPEAKER_01 21:28

Not for me, but I can't say for you.

SPEAKER_04 21:32

Notice somebody is here is paying attention to this answer.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

I plead the fifth. All right, that's a great strategy there. Uh, you're right. To help yourself get out of this, you gotta fix the problem. And what she's saying is start spending less than you're making, man. That's right. It's hard as shit, though. It's hard, I know. But then to dig yourself out, then you've got to start paying off because what she mentioned was this debt utilization. But you know what, because I've always told my kids, you know, when you get a credit card, you pay it off every month. This is a debit card that you just pay off every month. That's what it is. Um, and it's that's what we've been doing to help them build their own credit. But for most of us as entrepreneurs, you know, we were going into it. I think one of the things, and I look back on this now, I did not check my FICO score. I did not check a credit score score before I started. That being said, I had been working at the bank and doing very well. I I I was good. Uh I I actually was up in the 805, you know. So I was it was good at the time. Uh that was then. Uh 18 years later. Don't ask me. No, I'm we're good. Is this why you're aware of the 300 threshold? Uh so it's 350. Um, but yes. Uh but no. But and I did not know bankruptcy is adopted. No, guys, no, come on.

SPEAKER_04 22:45

Well, Sit Clay is easy to get credit after a bankruptcy because you can't file bankruptcy for another seven years or whatever it is. That's that that's what a friend of mine went through.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

There's some there's some truth. There can be some truth in that, but it's probably not going to be large limits, it's gonna be more expensive. But I there are lenders that target that.

Utilization And Paying Before Statement

SPEAKER_04 23:05

Yeah, but it'll fund my trip to Vegas. Yeah. No, a friend of mine was going through a lot of and it was, you know, the interest rates went up and everything, and all of a sudden everything snowballed because he normally just kind of made his minimum payments, and then it just snowballed on him, and he ended up having to file bankruptcy. And he goes, And the weirdest thing happened. All of a sudden, people are coming out of the woodwork trying to give me credit. Huh?

SPEAKER_02 23:26

That's crazy. Yeah. All right, let's switch gears now. Uh, business guy. Uh, I had to um I had to personally guarantee my first line of credit. Um, and I want to know when can I stop doing my personal guarantee to my line of credit as a where where do you start to build your business credit? Because that's one I would tell you. I it's a good question, Chris. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Yeah, so so typically lenders are gonna look at three things. You know, credit is one of them. And for the younger business, it is going to be personal credit. And even for an established business, banks love to look at personal credit. So do not be surprised. Sometimes you have to negotiate that that kind of um personal guarantee away as your business grows. But then they're also looking at revenue and time in business. So, you know, once you reach that two-year mark and you've been you've been making money for a couple of years, you're you're viewed differently by most lenders, not all, but most lenders, uh, for just having that longevity in your business and as it you know goes longer. So, what can you do about building business credit? Well, first of all, even if you don't have any business credit, the first thing that will usually get you on the radar is um getting a business, small business credit card. So most small business credit cards do report to at least one of the major business credit bureaus or to something called the Small Business Financial Exchange, which is a warehouse for business credit data that feeds into the bureaus. Uh and then um, and those are typically the decision is usually made based on your personal credit and income from all sources, not just the business. So if you're starting as a handyman on the side, for example, still have a partner, spouse, a day job, whatever it is, you can put in that whole household income. And if you qualify, then typically that doesn't show up on your personal credit, but it does report to business credit. So you're establishing a um, you know, a credit reference on business credit by using that card.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

All right. Um, not that we're endorsing credit cards, but if you were telling a small business owner who's trying to go go out there and get going, is there a credit card that you think uh or three of them that you think that they should go apply for as a small business and put it on that one?

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely going to be a personal decision because it's partly going to be based on your credit, your profile, which ones you're going to get. And it also depends on what you want in terms of the benefits that you may be able to get on the card. I mean, if you have strong credit, you could look at some really nice rewards credit cards for someone with a um, you know, with a good personal credit score. Uh one two things I'll point out here. One is that um with a business credit card, it typically doesn't show up on personal credit, but it does have a personal guarantee. So if you don't pay it back, they likely will try to collect from you personally if there's a you know a debt and default. So be you know, understand that it's not just an easy, you know, free ride. Once your business gets, you know, I got a call from one of my card issuers recently offering me a no personal guarantee, you know, true corporate card. And they said it requires at least$5 million in annual revenue. So some of these are at the two to five million dollar revenue range where you can truly start to move away from the personal guarantee. And then there are a few cards now that are the you're sort of coming out of the fintech world where they will base the decision based on your business revenue and have no personal guarantee, but it's more based on the business financials, which they're gonna look at very carefully in order to qualify your business. So those are just a couple of things to watch out for. And then oh, one more. Let me get one more, and that is um you giving employees to giving cards to employees or to business partners. If I've had one thing I've seen over the years, it's business partners who break up and then one leaves another with a lot of debt. Um and so, yeah, it's it's yeah, it can be very pricey.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

I was Alan and I uh definitely have a uh personal penchant against partners, even though uh one is a partner and one is not a partner and at the table here right now. But that's another one that we had never heard of. You know, we talk about some bad breakups. Actually, I just talked to a guy who just finished um settling and getting his business and now is trying to grow his business. And that's never come up that the other guy ran up or a person, whatever. Uh well, let's call it a guy, because guys are bad. Um, that the guy uh ran up the credit card debt and ran away. Wow. Oh my god, that was so so you're so you're not giving me uh a uh small business Safari credit card. You're not getting a uh all right, so I will tell you, um, I did I went for Amex, uh, and Amex has been great for me over 18 years because I use the that as employee cards as well underneath my umbrella. It's been able to help me manage things. They've done very good with the fraud uh prevention, it's just been great, and they've worked with me uh on months where, you know, look, I mean I mean I couldn't I couldn't make a payment, uh, but they worked with me on it.

SPEAKER_04 29:36

They're kind of worth the premium, aren't they? I think my opinion. I don't know what Jerry thinks, but sometimes that service really is worth it.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

The other one that I would tell you that uh some of my other friends really recommend is the Capital Card. Um Credit One's Capital card.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Capital One, probably Capital One Venture X or Capital One's Alex Baldwin's card.

SPEAKER_04 29:55

Spark. Walk through the world and you sling in your Capital One card.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

I I don't know. I was because I'm I'm in business now and I don't have time to watch TV. As he knows that's full of shit there. But uh I thought that was the uh, especially because we're coming to the March Madness time. I thought that was the um uh gambling card. No, it's uh yeah, that's the parlay card. That is the parlay card. So uh the Capital One Credit Spark card. That's it. It's the Capital One Spark card. Uh very good. Uh I've met some of those people, very impressed with their programs. But as a small business owner, we're talking about building our credit. Uh for a lot of us, uh, when we go into it, if you're not funded and you try to bootstrap, I highly recommend don't do that. That's doesn't happen. That's a recipe for uh for disaster. Make sure you have the wherewithal, you have your assets, you have your your kitty put together and over there, but you do need to have access to credit and and doing that. And I think the credit card is an easy way to do it if you're paying it off every month, and that's the big issue. If you're paying it off every month.

Business Cards And Partner Risks

SPEAKER_04 31:00

So, Jerry, let me ask you this. I'm sure there's somebody out there listening who's like, you know, I made some bad decisions early on. I got in over my head, I'm trying now. I I've got a business that's, you know, the legs are wobbly, but they're kind of getting underneath me, but I'm in trouble. And, you know, I'm one day away from this collapsing on me. What are some resources that they can use to try to figure out the best path forward?

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Yeah, and this is a very real scenario right now, um, especially for a lot of people who got the COVID um pandemic relief, not the PPP loans, because those were forgiven, but the EIDL loans during the pandemic. And the interest rate is really good, but there's a lot of people who are having trouble making those payments. And the the SBA had some, you know, had some programs that have now sort of ended for that. And and and that's a tough spot to be in, or any type of debt. I mean, you just talked about it recently on one of your episodes. You know, interest rates have gone up and debt's more expensive. So if you have a variable rate, credit card variable rate, loan, um, line of credit, everything is more expensive. And and if your revenue is kind of flat or declining, it may be hard to make those payments. So we have written about this on the NAV blog. So if you just go to NAV.com forward slash blog and put in, you know, can't make my payments or can't pay my debt, you'll see some, you know, some articles and research. Uh, I just did a very extensive piece about the EIDL loan and what, you know, and the SBA loans. If you can't make your SBA loan payment, what options do you have? Um, and I I won't say there's easy, necessarily easy options, but what I do caution against is just trying to fix it with uh fast financing, because that's where we see business owners potentially get into, and I'm saying I see, I see business owners potentially getting into trouble because they get another cash advance, for example, which is not a credit card cash advance. It's a cash advance in the business world, is where you you use your revenue, your credit card sales or your bank account to get an advance against future sales. That tends to be pretty expensive. And it can but it but it's one of those solutions because it's fast and someone's facing a crisis, they end up saying, okay, this is great. They get the money. And then now that company is taking daily or if they're lucky, weekly payments out of their bank account or out of right off the top of their sales, and then the cash flow is tough. So it just can it can really be a spiral. So, you know, getting getting some good advice, getting a business mentor, talking to your accounting professional, um, all those things, getting getting someone who can walk you through it. And I I would say it's probably not gonna be your partner or spouse who, you know, is probably worried about whether you should even keep the business going or not. I think it's probably gonna be someone who can give you more objective help to help you make that decision.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

Sage is a sagest, the most sage advice we have heard in four and a half years, have never been spoken. Smarter words have never been spoken than what Jerry just said. Perhaps it's not your spouse, but it's definitely not also, it's not Vinny on the corner with the VIG, uh, because that's where you gotta watch out. So she did say fast money, but eyes wide open with fast money, guys.

SPEAKER_04 34:34

But is there like you know, and Chris and I are both like, you know, get stuff done on your own. We don't need the government. But is there government are there government resources that are really helpful? Absolutely, yes. If somebody's feeling okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

Well, I I there is the smaller.

SPEAKER_03 34:53

You're sure the government's here to help me, Jerry. Okay, good. I'm the government, I'm here to help.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Okay, do you guys know SBDCs, small business development centers? Yes. Yeah, and it well, you're in Atlanta, you have a really good SBDC there. I've met with them there, yeah, they're they're sharp people. Um, but there's a it's a it's funded through universities across the country. There's over a thousand offices across the country. It's a partner of the um Small Business Administration, and they do provide free business mentoring. Their real, their ultimate goal is to help businesses become prepared for access to capital. Um, and free mentoring is one of the services that they provide. So um, yeah, if you haven't reached out to your SBDC, you can go to SBA.gov, which is the Small Business Administration's website. You'll see a tab on there that says find local assistance, type in your zip code and get in touch with them. I met some super people through that organization.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

I I will say that that's uh 100%, guys. Uh, we joke a lot about the government. And uh yes, Al and I are leery of the government, but not in this case, guys. This SBA.gov done a great job. SBDCs, uh, I have not been to an SBDC player.

SPEAKER_04 36:00

I always assumed those were for people who were thinking about going in into business and you get that's what I thought free mentoring kind of a thing. But you can go there when you're in business and maybe you're in a little bit of trouble.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Oh, absolutely. You guys, you you if you get a chance to to meet with your local SBDC, you you guys have a great one there. You're gonna be you're gonna love it. Um they have they have technology experts, they have government grant experts who are helping them get multi-million dollar government grants for technology and research and development. So they they have some really um really true. They have some that specialize in exporting, um going in business, you know, out outside the US. Um they're yeah, they're they're they're sharp. They've got some sharp.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

Alan, I'm gonna driving a Lamborghini is not a technology grant. I'm sorry, you do not get that. But they got the buttons, but you know, great point though, I think SPDC go why not reach them out?

SPEAKER_04 36:54

I I uh back in the day, this is well and a lot of solopreneurs are just like, no, I can do it by myself because they don't want to ask for help. And I mean there's freaking help sitting there, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

And you can't just Google it on the internet, you can't just AI it, guys. You've got to go talk to people. Um, because sometimes you just go to workshops workshop something out loud. I used score when I first started my business way before they had the SP. Well, I know they didn't have an SPDC back in 2007.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

They did, they did. You just didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

All right, Jerry.

SPEAKER_04 37:22

So you you've written a gazillion. Thank you, Jerry, once again. So I think I'm smarter than us.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

Yeah, and she's done it. She has definitely told me where I've gone wrong.

SPEAKER_04 37:29

So you've written uh or co-authored, I was a seven books and a gazillion articles. If uh give give us one or two articles that somebody who's thinking about starting a business should just read before they do anything.

Debt Trouble Help And Avoiding Fast Money

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Uh well, at Nav, we I have written a guide to building business credit and also setting your business foundation. So part of part of the what people don't understand about business credit is it's not just like consumer credit is so score-oriented now. We just think about the credit score, right? On the business side, because small business is so fragmented, it's so easy to start a small business, um, there's a lot of fraud that these companies that want to do business with you have to weed out. So they're looking at things like your address. The I I've talked to credit managers who look up the address on Google Maps to see what what address this business is putting down. Does it look logical for the type of business it is? Uh so we have two free guides. One is the step by step to just sort of make your business look legit, you know, the the simple things you need to do to make it look like a real business. A lot of businesses don't don't do that.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

I love that. That that right there, make your business. How to make your business look legit. So Luigi's handyman. Okay, how do they find that in Sicily? How do they find that?

SPEAKER_01 38:57

Jar, uh, just go to nav.com uh forward slash my first name, Jerry, G-E-R-R-I, and there's a free guide to building business credit there. And then um, you know, I don't know if the legit guide is I'll send you guys a link if you want to post it with the show notes.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

All right, keep going because I've got another question for you.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

So those are two that I would say are probably among the most popular. I'm just updating Nav's guide to financing options uh because it is more confusing than the consumer side. So that will be updated within about a month, and uh hopefully that will be useful to navigating that whole world as well.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

Interesting. And I said I had one more question, I just completely lost it, and it's a really good question. And I'm I'm sure it was. Um, I'm dying to know what it was because I've already given you one good question.

SPEAKER_04 39:45

I know, but this one was nothing. Yeah, although I asked one, you didn't give me one back. You're so petty.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

I am. You did ask a good question. God darn it. Cindy, edit this out. It's a dead spot. That's just a really good question. But the nav.com and then going to Jerry, that was a good question. Uh a great resource for us. Oh, I'm dying, guys. It's almost like you're doing three estimates with your fly unzipped. So did I mention uh if you didn't listen to last week's episode, everybody. Last week I came flying in really hot uh and to do our uh podcast. And uh Jerry, I had to stop and go to the bathroom of my own uh podcast studio, aka the basement. Um, and I realized my fly had been down since 12 o'clock that afternoon. Um, so there we go, everybody. You're listening to us.

SPEAKER_04 40:34

I want you to know, Jerry, he closed two out of three deals with his flyings out.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Oh, life of a business owner.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

Yeah, how am I doing? Oh boy, this is fun. I uh oh god, what was the question? You're really stuck on it. I really am because uh it's something I really want to ask her to. It's really that important. Alan, ask a dumb question, and I'll come back in a minute. Come on, we're running out of time.

SPEAKER_04 40:56

All right, what's the weather like in Sarasota today, Jerry?

SPEAKER_03 40:59

It's rocking.

SPEAKER_04 41:01

It's always 80 and Sarasad. Jerry, why'd you move to Sarasota?

SPEAKER_02 41:04

Because you could.

SPEAKER_03 41:06

Were you from Indiana originally? Michigan. Oh, other country. We're on the map.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

Um Southwest. Kalamazoo, Grand Rapids, Yappa. Oh, and that's because you're from Michigan, right, Alan?

SPEAKER_02 41:22

I went to school in Grand Rapids. He's from Michigan, yeah. Okay. I I grew up in Jackson.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Jackson, right. That's this side, right?

Free Mentors Through SBDCs

SPEAKER_02 41:28

I'm in the middle. Uh just below East Jackson. Just below East. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

Okay. And my brother, the one with the executive coach, lives in Kalamazoo. Oh, okay. Yeah. So there you go. Now I knew where we were kindred spirits, Alan. And I still keep it.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

Just look at Midwestern sensibility.

SPEAKER_04 41:43

I want to ask you. Midwest nice. When I was doing a little bit of my internet stalking, you you had articles on AI. And we talk about AI a lot. So is that something that's in parallel with what you're talking about with credit and debt and financing, or is that just a completely separate interest?

SPEAKER_01 42:03

No, um, it's just an interest and something that's can be useful for the business. But in this context, I do want to throw out a warning, and that is the AI is getting really, really good at loan scams. So if you looked at my phone, you would see that I'm getting d calls every single day about this business loan that has been approved for 158,000, 162,000. All I need to do is actually click on that? They do because a few years ago, I was I was I was talked to a bunch of people who had been scammed by people who used celebrity names for I wish I could remember who the celebrity was. Like George Clooney wants to loan me money. Yeah, and they literally had lost money. They lost money to this. So um it's it's sad. It's sad. But with AI, it's getting more sophisticated. So I do want to tell business owners just be very, very careful because they're the the AI enabled loan scams are going to make it easier and easier for people to get ripped off.

SPEAKER_04 43:09

So you just avoid that by not uh clicking on anything that comes to you. I mean, if you need a a loan, you you click out, but you don't re you don't do anything that's coming in.

unknown 43:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

Yeah. And again, I do have an article that goes through the scans, the things you can look for. Um, because unfortunately, sometimes it looks really good. Or as you know, you can you people can fish you, so it looks like you're going to the bank's website, but you're really not. Looks like the bank's email, but it's not. I mean, I I have friends who have been ripped off on these kinds of things.

SPEAKER_04 43:40

It's terrifying though. I mean, I I I have an issue with I'm getting scam uh calendar appointments all of a sudden popping up on my calendar.

SPEAKER_05 43:50

Me too.

SPEAKER_04 43:50

And I wanted to reach out to Apple Support and I Google what's the number for Apple support, and I look at that number that pops up, and I'm like, well, how do I know that's not a scam? Yeah, right. So uh I mean I'm just like sucking my thumb here.

Make Your Business Look Legit

SPEAKER_02 44:03

So a great, great question on this. And since we're talking about credit, one way, thank you. You did good. Um, it reminded me not of my question, but of the something I want to tell everybody. If you get a text message about so you set up a credit relationship with your credit card as you're setting up your business or doing whatever, or your bank, especially with your bank. Uh, and that reminded me of my question. Thank God I found it. Oh, you're gonna be so pissed when you woke up at two in the morning with a question. Which I would, uh, and then I go back to sucking my thumb thinking about why did I start a business. So we go back to this. All right, Jerry. So uh when a credit card company reaches out to you and says you've had a fraudulent transaction, never click on that link. Always go call the number that's on the back of your card and say, I've been contacted about this. Is there a question in there? No, now uh so that's an F that's a PSA. I was just Trying to help out my fellow brothers. Jerry, as I start a business, is it important to have a low because you said business is a little bit more relationship based as opposed to transactional based. I'm using different words than you used, credit scores for consumers, all numbers. For business, there's a way where you can do a little relationship talking. You can get some tell me how do you develop a local commercial banking relationship? And should we all have one?

SPEAKER_01 45:18

I do think it's great to have a good commercial banking relationship. It's not going to be the only, it's not going to be the only type of you were that worked up over there.

SPEAKER_02 45:26

I was. This is a very important question for me. It is important. Yeah. It is important. Thank you, Jerry, for validating me. So and and close your ears, Jerry, because you're from Taylor University. Fuck you, Ellen.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

It is important, but at the same time, I just want to emphasize that with this credit world for business, it's so much broader because we have all these micro lenders who are nonprofit lenders who are not advertising, for example, or we have crowdfunding as a possibility. We have, you know, lots of different loan products, but like Alan or not Alan, Chris, I assume your line of credit that you mentioned, because you were just talking about how you were tapping your line of credit right now during the less busy season. I assume that goes through your bank, right?

SPEAKER_00 46:13

It does. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

So you have a relationship there that you can manage that relationship and they can call you if there's an issue and alert you if there's a problem. Um, and sometimes that can be very helpful. When you're a younger business, a newer business, it will take time to establish that, right? So maybe you start with a business bank account, maybe a business savings account, whatever you do to get that, get that foot in the door. And then as you grow your business, then you can build out that relationship.

SPEAKER_04 46:45

But that means you need to go into the freaking bank and get to know the people there instead of being a whatever generation you are and doing everything on your phone.

AI Loan Scams And Fraud Calls

SPEAKER_02 46:53

All right. So listen, get off my lawn, you kids, old man. The hard part though is in the beginning. All right, gold nugget. Uh put that so AI is gonna read that as a gold nugget. Alan said, get off my lawn, you kids. Uh the gold nugget's not that. But you're right, you should go in there and start to develop it. But what Jerry's saying is exactly right, because I came from a bank and I started a handyman business. And I went to a smaller bank because I didn't want anybody to know that what I was doing at the bank, uh, that I was gonna leave and do this. Um, and while I tried to establish this and say, hey, listen, man, I um I don't know if you know who I am, but I'm kind of a big deal. In fact, I work for a bank that probably could have bought your bank, and I actually might have been on the merger acquisition discussion about your bank. I could I could have cut you. I could have cut them too. And uh they're like, Great, but we're no, we're not giving you a loan. So uh and then they came back to me four years later after I've been uh if you know finally got through the downturn because I started in 2008, and it um by the way, if you know what 2008 was, but that was Armageddon and it sucked. I don't remember, yeah. And I I'm telling everybody else, Alan, I know you remember, I keep bringing it up for you. Um but so but they came back to me in 2012 saying, hey, we're ready to lend you some money. I'm like, great, but I don't need it now. And so, but I realized the value of having that relationship. And so I'm actually with a uh with now a pretty large bank here in the southeast, but I have a relationship, I have ways to talk. And when fraud has happened, they have stepped in and helped. And then when I've asked for a line of credit, which I am tapping during my slow time, they have made sure that it was there for me. So it it is important to keep it up, but in the beginning, you can't expect them to give it to you because they're not there to help you. They are the they're the government in the beginning. It's hard, but but don't give up. And so I would tell you everybody continue to go make those relationships happen. If you're in your three, four, five, remember, all businesses uh that succeed uh can after five years, where our success rate is much higher, but one out of every 10 makes it. So you gotta be that one. You gotta be that one. You can do it. Um, but that's where you got to keep driving. Jerry Detweiler, you've been great. Credit.com. I know that's where you were in the beginning. It's so fun that I saw that. We we started with Taylor, we ended with credit. We talked about great stuff. We talked about the weather in Sarasota. Thank you, Alan, for delaying enough to let me get through to my great question. Um, Jerry, how can everybody go out there and read more about your great gold nuggets?

SPEAKER_01 49:19

Yeah, so a lot of what I do now these days is with nav, nav.com and nav.com. And again, if you just go to forward slash Jerry with a G, uh G-E-R-R-I, you can download the free resources there and um, you know, reach out to me on LinkedIn if you have a question about anything we talked about. I'm happy to answer questions. That's one of my favorite things to do. So I don't mind.

Commercial Bank Relationships And Closing

SPEAKER_02 49:38

All right, Jerry. We're connected on LinkedIn now. I uh connected up with you. So go out there and connect with her. Go out there, nav.com forward slash Jerry with a G. G-E-R-R-I. Jerry, Jerry, Jerry. Let's go. Yeah, Jerry's awesome. This has been great. Guys, credit's not fun. It's not a successful, it's not a it's not a sexy discussion. I I talk about this all the time. I love talking to people about their bathrooms. I love talking to their people about uh enhancing their homes. But the finance, that's the foundation, that's where it starts. It's not fun, but you've got to take at least, at least, at least, at least two hours a week to look at it. And that's the bare flipping minimum. You got another number for me? No, I like that. It's hard because I'll tell you what, I don't. Uh, and there's there's been weeks when I didn't. And when I pick my head up, I'm like, what in the hell just happened? Don't be like Chris. 18 years into it. Keep your fly up, keep going up the top, keep going. We're gonna split that red sea. Don't forget Taylor University, Red Sea. Go check it out. Jerry Detweiler, great stuff. Go out there, nav.com. We're out of here. We gotta keep going. We got money to make. Cheers, everybody. I need more money. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Small Business Safari. Remember, your positive attitude will help you achieve that higher altitude you're looking for in the wild world of small business ownership. And until next time, make it a great day.