The Small Business Safari

Don't Lose Money Before the Job Starts | Steve Lange

• Chris Lalomia, Alan Wyatt, Steve Lange • Season 4 • Episode 245

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You can spot a contractor who’s about to lose money before they ever swing a hammer. It starts with the tiny details — the wrong door size, a missed window spec, or a supplier who never asks, “Are you sure about that?”

What separates great contractors from the ones constantly losing money on jobs? Often, it comes down to the details — and the partnerships behind them. Steve Lange from Randall Brothers joins us to break down how strong supplier relationships help remodelers avoid costly mistakes, navigate volatile markets, and build businesses that last.

From learning the building supply business at $7.25 an hour to leading a high-performing outside sales operation, Steve shares what really happens behind the scenes in contractor sales, inside sales, and customer support. We unpack the painful lessons from the 2008 housing crash, the chaos of COVID-era material pricing, and the signals smart contractors should watch in today’s market.

We also dive into solution selling, setting customer expectations, leadership during crisis moments, and why the best reps aren’t just order takers — they’re trusted partners who protect contractors from expensive errors before they happen.

If you’re in construction, remodeling, home improvement, or contractor sales, this episode is packed with practical insights on profitability, customer service, and surviving a changing housing market.

🎥 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheSmallBusinessSafari

💡 GOLD NUGGETS

  •  Why nominal vs. actual measurements cost contractors thousands 
  •  The hidden role inside sales plays when the counter gets chaotic 
  •  Lessons learned from surviving the 2008 construction collapse 
  •  How remodelers can thrive in today’s “opportunity market” 
  •  Managing material price volatility after COVID 
  •  Why listening and expectation-setting win more business 
  •  The difference between order takers and true solution sellers 
  •  How great companies step up during community crises 

🔗 Guest Links

🌍 Follow The Small Business Safari

  •  Instagram | @smallbusinesssafaripodcast 
  •  LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrislalomia
  •  Website | https://chrislalomia.com



Thanks to our sponsor Smart Hire Solutions LLC!

From The Yard To Sales Dreams

SPEAKER_04

You know, like I said, I started out in the yard and uh I would see these guys coming in every once in a while that were outside sales guys. I was like, well, what do they do? And I just figured they did PR and they made a whole lot of money. And I'm like, I can talk to people. I like to make a whole lot of money, so that's that's where I want to go. Took me a few years and started out on inside sales and went into outside sales and uh figured out, hey, that's not what they do, and it's not that easy.

SPEAKER_00

But everybody else is always tonning it. Here he is in the yard going, man, I'm making 725. Boy, that guy's driving a nicer car than me. Yeah, he's tonning. Man, and he's doing it real easy. Even out here in the cool weather like me, absolutely pulling the forklift, uh, try to pull material off the top shelf and watching it fall all around you. I didn't know if that happened to you, but hypothetically, it might have happened to one of us here at the table. Welcome to the Small Business Safari, where I help guide you to avoid those traps, pitfalls, and dangers that lurk when navigating the wild world of small business ownership. I'll share those gold nuggets of information and invite guests to help accelerate your ascent to that mountaintop of success. It's a jungle out there, and I want to help you traverse through the levels of owning your own business that can get you bogged down and distract you from hitting your own personal and professional goals. So strap in Adventure Team and let's take a ride through the safari.

World Cup Tickets And Real Costs

SPEAKER_00

Alan, let's get the hammered off, get the tool belt on, let's get back to work, everybody. We gotta build some shit today. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. You feel what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01

I don't know. I I just, you know, I I feel like the listeners need to know that you were dropping big daddy during the green room chat.

SPEAKER_00

So the World Cup is coming to the uh North Americas. Uh we happen to live in one of the cities that will be hosting eight games. My buddy says, Do you want to go in on tickets? And I said, Yes. He said, Okay, got them. I said, Okay. He goes, it's this much. I said, no, I just want my share. He goes, that's your share. I said, oh boy, I've really got to get more sponsors on the podcast. I need more discounts for my suppliers.

SPEAKER_01

And I asked, I go, so is it priced like a Super Bowl? And and then I got a uh hire. Keep going. Really? Keep going. And then goes to more.

SPEAKER_00

And there's eight of them, and we have a semifinal. And we have a semifinal. And they are the tickets that my buddy has that we go to for Falcons games. They are not nosebleeds, everybody. They are midfield, second level, all inclusive. That's right.

SPEAKER_01

Right on right on the 50.

SPEAKER_00

And so I looked at him and said, All right, we're selling that semifinal. To which our guest said, now, hypothetically, if the US actually came through, would you still sell those tickets? And this is a would you rather question.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I love the look on your face when he asked. It was such a good question.

SPEAKER_00

It is a good question. Right off the rip. We are anywhere on the air. So, guys, that's right. The World Cup, we are learning. And you know, we've got we've got listeners all over the world, Alan, as you know, Europe, Australia, Canada, Canada, uh, who got into soccer eight years ago just so they could host it, as we understood from our guest. Pretty interesting. You would think that we have a World Cup aficionado coming out again.

SPEAKER_01

And maybe we're giving people the wrong impression. So we'll go back to your original uh strap on your hammers and your tool belts, guys.

SPEAKER_00

That's right. Let's go back to that train of thought for a minute.

Learning Building Supply The Hard Way

SPEAKER_00

So I started my business in 2008. I'm a pretty handy dude. We're actually in my basement where I put my handiw to the test before I even started my business. And you're seeing all the work that I did in here, by the way, Steve. That's my crown molding, that's my rope molding, that's my mantle. Those are all my doors I've hung. Don't look too closely. All right. That's good. Thank you. And the cabinets. Don't forget the other. Don't turn the lights on. Don't turn the lights on. So one of the things that uh we have here in Atlanta as a handyman company now, uh, and we've talked about this before. Uh maybe I haven't talked about it, guys, but um, I've been looking for other handymen who are the same size as me. There's very few of us uh because uh we've been able to build it here. But when I first started, I was a little guy. And I was a little guy in 2008, and our guest here did not have the time for me because I was too small for him and his big ass company.

SPEAKER_01

That didn't feel good at all, didn't it?

SPEAKER_00

I told him I told him, I was like, hang on, big guy.

SPEAKER_01

Suck it, suck it, Steve.

SPEAKER_00

We got Steve Lang from one of our building suppliers, but I want to talk about uh about building supplies and what happened. So in 2008, man, these guys were printing cash, printing money, sending 40 doors out, sending, sending 500 windows out, sending roof packages out, trusses out, everything was going out. And I come in and go, Um, I'd like to get one door. They're like, uh, who are you again? And the counter sales, let's just say Chris got a big lesson on. He ain't big daddy anymore. I don't care where you came from there, Sun Trust boy. I don't care if you had cufflinks on, but if you can't tell us what door you want, and I said, Well, I want one that's about 28 inches. We don't have one that's about 28. We got one that's two four. I said, No, no, no, no, 28. And they they go, nope, no idea. What did I learn? I learned that doors are measured in feet and inches in the building world, windows are measured in feet and inches in the building world. And if you can't call it a nominal size, get the hell out of my spot.

SPEAKER_01

Two feet four inches is what is what it means.

SPEAKER_00

That's two eight. Yeah, it's two four. That's right. No, that's 28 inches. That's 28 inches. And I learned real quickly that if I couldn't stand it and delivered a counter, I was getting jack shit.

SPEAKER_01

Uh so it's like a soup Nazi for doors.

SPEAKER_00

It they were all like that though. So all the big guys, when I come in and say I just need two windows, nope. And then I came in one time and I said did you what did he?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, because he's still ordering one door.

SPEAKER_04

Well, this was this was a little bit before my time, although I was there.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Right.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. So 2008. Uh it's they're they're they're printing it, they're building it, people are building everything, and then it hits. Yeah. And it hit hard. And the group that I worked with went out of business. The other group I went with, they went out of business. The other group got bought. And the other group that said, I don't got time for you because we're too big, went out of business. And when I sit there and I'm like, oh God, now I gotta start buying everything from Home Depot because I don't have anybody else to go to. And then I heard through Nary, which uh, you know, I'm very involved in Alan. Yeah, former royalty uh president, now chairman of the board, thank you, and on the national board and getting ready to go to the national conference. Thank you very much. Is that this group that used to be known as X is now known as PMC, but they're gonna cater to smaller remodelers. I'm like, all right, prove it. Now, let's go back again. In my world, I went back and would order windows, and I remember going to one of the now deceased companies and saying, I want this window, and they went, Absolutely, we'll make it for you. I said, These are the right guys' dimensions, and they made it for me, and it exactly didn't fit. And I had to go and reorder it. Why? Because I didn't know the difference between nominal and actual. And he, this guy never looked at me and said, By the way, that's a custom window I've never heard of. Are you really sure about that? Now, this is why we have our guest on today. I found somebody who would actually call and go, Are you really sure about that? Because before you drop an extra thousand, you might want to just double check those numbers because that doesn't make sense. And I've never seen that in any building I've been involved in. We've got Steve Lang on from Randall Brothers. Steve, welcome to the show. Thank you very much. This is the value of having a great partner because uh when I when I was introduced to the company at the time, they were called PMC. Uh, the former company I was talking about that was too big to work with me was Plymart, their counter sales was brutal. They I said I'm telling you, man, they almost ran me out of the room. It was so funny. I was like, Well, I've never I went from being big dog, 400 people working for me at Sun Trust to coward walked right out of there going, I can't do building.

SPEAKER_04

It was definitely a different time then, for sure.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so rock and rolling. So uh we started up with PMC, uh, and then it became Randall Brothers, which we'll get into that lineage. But Steve Lang was my rep. And I remember uh again sending Steve some information, him saying, I'm not really sure about that. You want to check? Hey, would you guys be all right if I came over and kind of like just talk with you guys for a little bit? Which is his way of saying, you guys are such dumbasses.

SPEAKER_01

You're so stupid.

SPEAKER_00

You are so take this much time to make me go order one stupid size door that you're gonna eat anyway. Can I just come talk to you first and teach you guys how to measure doors, how to measure windows, and how to call out the right product? And oh, by the way, let me show you about some other building products that are out there. So when you see them in a house, you're gonna know what you're looking at. That's what we got with Steve. Good man, Steve.

SPEAKER_04

We tried. He did good. Yeah, the uh good, bad, or in-between. That's uh that's definitely something that I believe in as far as uh you know product knowledge. And uh, if something doesn't make sense, questioning it because there's always more than enough time later on to fix it. So get it right the first time.

SPEAKER_00

Steve, let's back up. So you're

Inside Sales Lessons That Stick

SPEAKER_00

in high school. Yep. Uh you said, you know what, building is for me. I'm gonna get in building products, I'm gonna out of doors and windows. Absolutely not. What was your goals?

SPEAKER_04

So uh went to high school in South Florida, and uh the year was 97, and the idea was for me and the family to move up to Georgia to go to a school at the time, KSU. And uh, I was actually gonna become an accountant, if you can believe that. No, no, I can't even close.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, I love how long was your mullet?

SPEAKER_04

Exactly. It was the 90s.

SPEAKER_00

And how many inches was your truck jacked up? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04

It was actually lowered and it was a Honda Civic. Um let's go.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm sorry, he's an accountant.

SPEAKER_04

Florida, man. But uh no, that was a that was a game plan. Um, I absolutely love numbers, believe it or not. So uh we do actually believe that. Yep. So we moved up here. Um uh when I was in Florida, I was actually working part-time at a car dealership as a car detailer because I'm very anal and I actually did a pretty good job cleaning up cars. But you know, I'm 17, 18, 19 years old, working 30 hours a week and bringing home five, six hundred dollars. That was a lot of money back then.

SPEAKER_01

At 17.

SPEAKER_04

At 17. So, you know, I had a car payment and everything else, of course, loan through my parents. Um, but we moved up to Georgia with that idea in intact as far as going to school. Then I realized the job market just absolutely sucked. Um, we went from Naples, Florida to Cartersville, Georgia, which was a little bit of a culture shock.

SPEAKER_00

That seems um wow.

SPEAKER_04

And uh I got a job part-time as a short-order cook, and uh the other part-time job was with Plymount at the time. And uh they had me working out in the yard and it was great. I was 19 years old. It was, you know, October, so that wasn't so great because it was cold, but summertime was good. I was getting a sunburn and I was working out, and um, I remember they offered me seven dollars and twenty five cents an hour to come on full-time, and at the time I'm like, yeah, let's do it. So uh yeah, that's where the story started from, and strictly by accident.

SPEAKER_00

So you started with Plymar in uh 2000, right around 2000. Yep. So building was strong, but you started out in the yard.

SPEAKER_04

Yes. 97 started out in the art.

SPEAKER_01

So when did the uh accounting dream die? Um at 725 an hour. Is that right? You sold yourself out for 725 an hour. I did. There had to be a woman. I did at the time.

SPEAKER_04

No, no, no, women. I was smart. A car? There was plenty of cars, but no, it was it was the 725, and it was the working the full time, and it was, you know, hell, working 60 hours a week and overtime, that was a lot of money then too. But um, you know, things kind of progressed, and I got, you know, like I said, I started out in the yard, and uh, I would see these guys coming in every once in a while that were outside sales guys. I was like, well, what do they do? And I just figured they did PR and they made a whole lot of money. And I'm like, I can talk to people. I like to make a whole lot of money, so that's that's where I want to go. Took me a few years and started out on inside sales and went into outside sales and uh figured out, hey, that's not what they do, and it's not that easy.

SPEAKER_00

But everybody else is always tonning it. Here he is in the yard going, man, I'm making 725. Boy, that guy's driving a nicer car than me. Yeah, he's tonning. Man, and he's doing it real easy. He ain't out here in the cool weather like me. Absolutely pulling the porklift, uh, try to pull a material off the top shelf and watching it fall all around you. I didn't know if that happened to you, but hypothetically, it might have happened to one of us here at the table.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, great story, by the way. So, you know, I always believed in killing two birds with one stone and work smarter, not harder. So, you know, lumber comes wrapped in plastic. And one of my great ideas was, you know, when you unwrap it, the the plastic just stays there. Well, I would just bundle it up with the lumber and send it out to the job sites. And uh we used to catch so much shit for that. I I I got threatened with almost being fired one time. It was actually pretty, pretty comical. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I'm firing your $7.25 butt that's actually showing up every day, doing the job. Uh, but you gotta go.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I was sending garbage with the package. I mean, I get it now.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Now I'm in sales, I'll lose my shit too.

SPEAKER_00

Uh all right. So uh you obviously you're you came on the podcast and you do have an outgoing personality, which is anti-accountant as well. Yeah. Um, so as you made that progression through inside sales, was it somebody who helped you? Was there a mentor? Was there somebody that helped you guide you through this?

SPEAKER_04

You know, my brother-in-law at the time, um, he's the one that got me the job part-time coming on with Plymount. He actually worked for Plymart as well. He was a uh dispatcher. Um, he had been with the company for several years. It was family owned, um, and he had nothing but good things to say about it. Um, and I thought that, you know, that would be a place where I'd like to start and you know, kind of venture to see my career path in that. Um, but yeah, he actually started me out. He kind of taught me the ropes. He would uh get me back in line if if uh you know I swayed, if you will, and things were a lot different then. You could you could pop some people around if you needed to. But uh, you know.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Alan, how did you interpret that? Did you say former brother-in-law? Yes. Okay, yeah. So after all that, that's everything you took. Is that the former brother-in-law popped him around a little bit? Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02

Oh man, that's that's not what happened.

SPEAKER_00

He's gonna have his family, he's gonna have his family listen to this. It's like, no, dad, that's not what I meant. That's not what I meant. Alan took that way out of context. Chris had to reel him back in. There goes Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving. Cheers. Yeah, well, well, good news is it's gonna be intense as ours. So love that. Finally, if if I can if I have to have Thanksgiving ruined every year, you get too too, buddy. What? So you start inside sales. Yes. Why don't you define what that job is for those of us who don't do that?

SPEAKER_04

Sure. So at the time, um, the location I worked at was in Cartersville. Um, Cartersville was at the time basically a dirt lot with a camper on it. That was our office. Um, this was you know 97, 98, 99. Of course, it was still a new marketplace for Plymouth because Plymouth was relatively large. Um, long story short, they wanted to put a satellite, you know, office there. They ended up building a larger office, which had, you know, the showroom, 11 outside sales reps, 13 acres, all that type of stuff. That's where I started my inside sales career. Um, on the inside sales career, I was the only inside sales rep. Chris, you've been to our counter before, you know how busy and crazy it gets. We've got seven guys on it, they rock and roll. Well, picture that a little bit smaller scale, but it was only me. One. One. So you were that guy. I was that guy.

unknown

Yes.

SPEAKER_04

What what what do you need? Nope. Yeah, no, no. I was like, yes, sir, how can I get it for you? All right. And then, of course, you know, I'd I'd take down all the information and they would leave, and I'd be like, hey, so-and-so, what is this? How do I do this? What does this mean? Whoops, I screwed up again, you know. But um, no, I really cut my teeth on uh on inside sales. Um, but basically it was you know the customer service aspect, it was taking care of the customer, it was answering the phone calls, um, not just you know, rando's calling in to say what's the price on a two by four, but actually taking care of service issues.

SPEAKER_01

He was he was looking at you.

SPEAKER_00

He did actually.

SPEAKER_04

I did, I did.

SPEAKER_00

He he went rando's and I said right in. I mean, I'm like, dude, that could be your new nickname. Rando Rando. It is I am I am America's man, Rando. Nothing Rambo.

SPEAKER_04

There you go, I like it. But the other thing that gave me the chance to do though was expand my horizon as well. Um, because it wasn't really set. I knew what the job was, and everybody knew kind of what the title was, but I was the only one doing it. So I could actually practice cold calling, I could go to job sites when I had the counter covered, you know, things of that nature. Um, so it kind of exposed me a little bit more into the outside role as well. And then uh after about nine months into it, they kicked me out and put me back in the yard.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, okay. So you're obviously doing a great job.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I was doing a fantastic job.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, keep thinking that.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, well, you know, I was 21 years old. We all know what happens when we're 21 years old, right? Um, well, tell us.

SPEAKER_00

Not not for some of us who are a little older when we were 18 that happened. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. You know, cars, girls, drinking, good time, late nights, all that type of good stuff. Um, but uh, you know, of course I they gave me the opportunity. They still had me in their back pocket, if you will. And they kicked me back out in the yard, and of course I was I was pretty sore about it. But uh I stuck with it and waited for another year, and I said, Hey, I want to try this again. And at that time we had a new store manager. And he's like, you know, I kind of heard the story, I kind of know the who, what, when, where, how. We're gonna try again. So I did it again, and you know, by the time I was 23, here I am outside sales and rocking and rolling.

SPEAKER_00

Rock and rolling.

Boom Times Then The 2008 Bust

SPEAKER_00

So, you know, obviously in the lessons that we talk about here a lot, uh, about either running your own business or starting your own business. You you had that wake-up call. I think we've all had to have that kick in the pants, as it were, that one shot where somebody kind of one shot. Okay, I like 155 shots.

SPEAKER_01

So it's several I'm talking about kicking the pants.

SPEAKER_00

How many how many days are there in the year again? Yeah, 360. Yeah, 365 getting hit every day right there, right in the uh huevos. That's right, my friends. So you got that, but you had somebody who took a chance and back on you to do that, yeah, and you showed them the loyalty and you showed them that because you have only been literally with one company your whole time.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, when you think about it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Because, well, it started out as a company called Plimart, then it became uh dead, and then it became PMC Building Materials, and then it became Randall Brothers, which for those of us in Atlanta, Randall Brothers is an iconic name. But let's go back to uh as you as you moved up in your career and did this thing. You saw a lot 2000, boom, 2005 and six here in Atlanta. You couldn't not build a house. I mean, I could have been a building everywhere.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah, like in a street corner, absolutely in the middle of it. Absolutely. I mean, it was terrible. I mean, it was rocking and rolling. Power lines fine.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it was rocking and rolling. You could make money. Um, money was cheap. Uh, people were buying, people were moving here. Um, I was a little young at the time to realize exactly what was going on because I was still learning the industry, if you will. But I was making a really good living in my mid to late 20s. And uh, of course, you know, 2008 happened, and we all know what happened there.

SPEAKER_00

I don't remember. Yeah. It's still a sort of subject for PTSD, boy, but I I I am interested because I understood that Plymount stopped working for a while. Basically. Did you did you go without a paycheck during 2008?

SPEAKER_04

So, yes and no. So um, you know, 2007 we had our largest year, it was like 495 million. Just kind of put some emphasis to it. Um, 2008 they closed the doors. Uh, what a big issue was that's that's staggering.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, it's at 495 to shut the doors.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. And basically it was long money. Um, we had a lot of late money out there. We were dealing with, you know, national guys. Chris. Yeah. No, no, no, no. We were dealing with national guys, national builders. They all had terms. Um, you know, when you looked at the 120-day money and the 90-day money and the 60-day money, I mean it was ridiculous. It was it was half that.

SPEAKER_00

So that's that love of accounting that came in because you actually were able to see that even then in your position in outside sales.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. All right. I mean, was that a mistake or was it just a function of the disaster that happened?

SPEAKER_04

It was a lesson learned. Um, a lot of companies did it because, you know, the I'm sure you guys heard the term too big to fail. Um, it was still kind of that mentality, too, in in building industry.

SPEAKER_01

Um, you know, they don't do that today? They don't do terms?

SPEAKER_04

Um, there's some companies that do. Uh we don't. We learned our lesson. Um so yeah. All right. Hard luck and learned.

SPEAKER_00

Uh you said yes and no, didn't get a paycheck, but your company went bankrupt.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

So I give me the yes on the no. So uh last thing I checked, and you're an accounting guy. I'm you know, I'm just a guy who was in banking for a while. Sure. Um, if a company goes bankrupt, you don't get money.

SPEAKER_04

Sure. Well, no, yeah, no, no, you're yeah, you're on cue there. So basically basically what had happened. Um, at the store where I was at the time, we went up to Rock Springs. I was one of the outside sales reps to kind of open up that store, which was in northwest Georgia. Kind of give you an idea. Um, ring gold area. So I went up there to open the the store about two, two and a half years before that, which we did a great job. And as a new store, which we actually um bought out somebody, a local supplier up there, we were doing great compared to the other 33 locations. Um, we weren't number one, but we were in the top 10% as far as revenue coming in, profit dollars, etc. So my store was actually one of the last ones to close. Um, there were people that were losing their jobs before then that weren't getting money before then. Um, but we were one of the last ones to kind of hold on. So that's why I said the yes and no.

SPEAKER_00

All right. So down it goes. Uh this company goes bankrupt. Uh, so now what? So you hooked on with another company? What did you do? Put your you put you put your shingle out there. Who'd you go?

SPEAKER_04

I did. So I still had a customer base, you know, up in northwest Georgia. And I was very loyal to them. Um, I was 30 years old, uh, never did the accounting thing. So I never sure actually never went to school, just kind of grew my career. Um, but my customer base in northwest Georgia and in and in Chattanooga still meant a lot to me. Um through some channeling and some networking, I actually went on with a company that was located out of Chattanooga for about six months. And the reason I did that was basically to make the transition for my customers, um, to get them used to that company and eventually turn them, turn them over to that company. Um, just because of the logistics for myself, you know, traveling back and forth. I was still living in Cartersville. It was a two-hour drive just to get up to that area. Um, you know, things were a lot more expensive then, especially when you're only making $30,000 a year now. But uh that was kind of the game plan. And I didn't really have a plan other than that. Um, and then I got a phone call. Um, you know, one of the regional guys that were with Plymouth that that was a part of starting PMC called me up and said, Steve, what are you doing? I said, Well, you already know what I'm doing because you're the one that helped me kind of network to get this. He's like, We're gonna we're gonna open up PMC. You want to come down?

SPEAKER_00

Who was this guy?

SPEAKER_04

Uh, this was Bill Stoker. Bill. Yeah. And uh I said, Bill, you know, I don't I don't have a customer base. What do you need me to do? He's like, Don't worry about it, we'll find you a job. And I knew right there and then I had a home.

SPEAKER_00

So these guys reconstituted, and you were basic basically back to being part of a startup. Yeah. And so it was Bill, um, Larry, and then yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So you had uh you had Bill, Randy, and Rich Mahaffey, um, Greg Missouri. Yep, Greg Missurick.

SPEAKER_00

Greg.

SPEAKER_04

Uh Larry came on a little bit later, but he was also a help.

SPEAKER_00

Right, he came on later. That's right.

SPEAKER_04

That's right. And we basically had the counter guys uh that came back on because it was in the Mary Location.

SPEAKER_00

It was year both guys that didn't want to come back on. Can I say that on the you just did what what year was this now?

SPEAKER_04

Uh let's see, this would have been uh see I started back November 2008. So yeah, late 2008, early 2009.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'd I'd say it's like February is still it still sucked then.

SPEAKER_04

Oh yeah, oh it sucked. Yeah, no, absolutely. Oh, it sucked. Yeah, no, it sucked.

SPEAKER_01

I mean I don't remember much, but I remember it sucked.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, no, the uh our first full year, which was 2009, I think, as the one location, we did maybe 750,000, 800,000.

SPEAKER_00

So from

Warning Signs And Today’s Market

SPEAKER_00

495 million to 750,000 uh in a heartbeat. Yeah, that's the title of this podcast. When things go wrong, you don't see it. Let's go back to looking at what we saw then and how many uh signals we all missed. Did you see anything then that if you see that today, you would say it's time to think differently?

SPEAKER_04

Absolutely. You know, the uh it was real easy to Monday night quarterback um after it happened, um, and especially see some of the signs, if you will. Um, the market was saturated. You know, anybody with a cell phone and a and a magnet could be a contractor and they could sell houses. Um, building loans were very easy to get. Um, you know, the people were able to get into houses that weren't supposed to get into houses to begin with. We all kind of know what happened there. We have our own feelings. Um, with that, I think a lot of regulations came. Um, you know, as far as you know, your GC license, uh banking, all that type of stuff.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, uh being able to get a lot of tightened up a lot.

SPEAKER_04

It did tighten up. Uh too too good and bad, my opinion, but we can get into that later if we want.

SPEAKER_00

Um I shook my head. That's not good radio, people. Not good podcast. No, we'll get into that. All right. So signals that you saw, yeah, saturated market. That the it was the wild, wild west here in Georgia, but it was obviously wild wild west across the entire country.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

Uh, in terms of people getting into houses that really shouldn't be in houses.

SPEAKER_01

You said something well was uh the loans were on stated income. I I make this much, and you didn't have to prove it, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Hey Steve, how much do you say? 30. I said, I think you heard you say 60. Yeah, yeah, 60. All right, yeah, we can get you in that $300,000 house. Exactly. Come on, Steve. Yeah, we'll get you in there. Next thing you know, Steve, Steve's like, uh, my mortgage payment is now uh two-thirds of my monthly income. Yeah, yeah, we're you'll give it a few. Okay, yeah, it's fine. You got you got launchers, you'll be fine. Yeah, um, and I think people got that, had that renter's mentality, and that was the buildup. You know, I was in banking when it happened, uh, and I got to see it and get that chance to reflect on it. And I always think about that now because now we've also been through COVID, which is nobody could ever signal that. But when things get super saturated, things get overheated, what are the signs we should be looking for to make sure that we're not the ones who get caught holding the bag at the end? And that's I mean, it's a hard thing to call because the next one is going to be different.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

It won't be the same, it'll be different, and you just don't know where the difference coming from.

SPEAKER_04

You know, there'll be some signs, you know, whether people are becoming late with their bills or whether the market's saturated or whatnot. And of course, we keep up with permits. You can keep up with permits pulled and what that looks like.

SPEAKER_01

When you say the market's saturated, what is I mean, what does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_04

The uh, you know, it you could have three neighborhoods within a five-block, you know, radius, and so being overbuilt. Yeah, absolutely overbuilt. Yeah. Uh overbuilt, overdeveloped, um, and really just going up like like hot cakes, you know, like they're nothing. Um when you start seeing that going on, um, it's time to pay attention just a little bit. That means that everybody's buying, the market's cheap, my opinion. Um, but there's gonna be a an overwhelming amount of housing that's out there. Um, I think since 2008, our region kind of did a pretty good job of tightening that belt a little bit, so it didn't really let it saturate that much.

SPEAKER_00

Um but yeah, I don't know. Go ahead, Alan. Well, it we're I got I have an opinion. Really? Absolutely, Alan.

SPEAKER_01

All right, Alan. Go ahead, shoot. No, I was just gonna say, because right now we're still, I mean, uh things it's such a weird economy right now, but it's still there's a lot of development going on, but I don't believe we've caught up from when COVID happened, a lot of builders just stopped building. And you know, Atlanta particularly is is growing no matter what is going on, and so we're we still technically have a housing shortage, from what I understand. Yeah, so we're not in a a position to worry about it right now, right?

SPEAKER_04

Um, you know, uh you you get reports from everywhere, and everybody kind of has their own opinion. During COVID, there was a housing shortage. The moving in the movie industry was coming to Georgia, that was pretty big. Um, money was still cheap. And we're talking about new construction now. Okay um and the other flip side of that is the multifamily stuff was also harder to have because more and more people were moving here. Um, so there was a shortage, if you will. Um, today the permits that are being pulled are less than what were being pulled, you know, last year, the year before, um, because the market's kind of a little stagnant right now. You had people that bought during COVID 20 to 2022, they have low interest rates. They probably bought a little bit too high for what the house actually was. Um, but you know, they don't want to move to buy a more expensive house with a higher interest rate. Doesn't make any sense. Um, people call that a stagnant, stagnant market. I call it an opportunity market. I think, especially with what you do, Chris, on the handyman side, people aren't going to move, but people are still going to want to remodel and update, and they can afford those things. Um, that's my opinion. Uh, but that in 325 will get you a Sunday newspaper.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's not your 725 that used to give an hour, big guy. He's making the big bucks now. That's right. We got Steve Lang from Randall Brothers. Uh, building supplies obviously uh helps a lot of us builders and people in the business, but uh has a great uh eye for what's going on to help us with trends and help us with things that are happening. And I think you can take that across any industry, which I felt like here's my opinion now, Alan. What happened here, and it I couldn't wait. Yeah, I know you can't. What happened here in Atlanta specifically is that what was happening is we were building all on spec. That means I don't have a buyer for that home yet. So I would go out and build 20 homes and find 20 buyers after I built them, which sounds like a dream as a builder because I don't have a customer to have to work with. You know, as a handyman who has a remodeler who has to go and work in a house all the time, I get the right customer looking at me day in and day out. We were 70% spec here in Atlanta and 30% custom, which means somebody gave me a check to start building my home. That was exactly the inverse for the rest of the nation. Really? The rest of the nation is 30% spec and 70% custom, meaning Alan Wyatt wants to build a custom home. He gives Steve Lang a check and well gives Chris the check. Thank you very much. I go to Steve, give him the check to start giving me supplies, tell him he's overpriced, he needs to break it down, and then you pay me another draw and another draw, as opposed to going out there and saying I have no Alan Wyatt's to pay my bills. And that's what happened to us. Uh, developers and uh and builders alike all ran up quickly on this whole spec market just absolutely collapsing. Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I would agree with that. Absolutely. Thank you. Very good perspective.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you. See, my opinions worth some not bad for a rando. Thank you, Rando. All right, Captain Rando, let's keep talking. So, Steve, we're in this market. Uh, and we do. Uh, he and I talk, you know, regularly about, you know, what do you see in the market? What do you see and what's going on? And that's the kind of stuff you need in your business. And that's the kind of thing that I don't think people get uh that they should do more often. And that is, you know, talk to your suppliers, talk to people who are talking to a lot more people than you are, just to get a feel for what's happening. Because he'll talk new construction, but it'll also come back and say, Well, in your business, you know, I'm not seeing that as much, but I'm seeing this. And then the other things that he's really helped me with is COVID. Let's go back to this.

COVID Prices And Solution Selling

SPEAKER_00

What happened in COVID? Well, we shut down. No, what really happened in COVID was material prices went boing, bang, bing, bong, bang, bang, bang, all over the no idea. I used to get a an annual price increase from Steve, and it turned out he he called me and he said, I apologize for this, but you're gonna get it monthly. I said, Do my he goes monthly because I don't know where it's going. Yep. And that's what we had to deal with. And we're still dealing with the fallouts of this and the ups and downs, and people who are still sitting in their house going, Well, I did all that work. Well, I hate to break the C Man. That was five years ago. And guess what's happened in five years? Your house is still getting beaten, and things are still need to be done. So getting those relationships with people who are outside of even in your industry, but you know, staying your industry vertical, but not in what you're doing, right? Has been really helpful for me. So yeah, no, that's been great. So as you keep going on in your career, sure. Um, so you go into this PMC group, they kill it, they get bought by Randall Brothers. Did you get a piece of that?

SPEAKER_02

No.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Let's not bring that up, Alan. Why did you bring that up, Alan? I'm so stupid. God, I'm blessing murder. You know what, Larry? Screw you. He won't listen to this anyway. He's retired, he's gone.

SPEAKER_04

I text him on the way over here.

SPEAKER_00

Did you really?

SPEAKER_04

I did.

SPEAKER_00

Nice.

SPEAKER_04

No, I didn't.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, you should have. You know, Greg, screw you. He won't listen to this either because he's a serious introvert. I had him on the radio show too. Uh, so uh give Steve, give, give him a boy some love. Those guys have heard that all the time before. Um, but as you uh as you progressed, you went from inside sales to outside sales. Yeah, what is your position today with Randall Brothers?

SPEAKER_04

Um, still outside sales. Um, you know, I've been able to grow an awesome team. I've actually got a team of three. Uh, I don't really hear about that in the industry. As far as an outside sales guys, they usually have one admin person, unless they were doing, you know, the national business. And I still remember back in the day in Plymart, the national business guys, you know, they were selling a million two, a million three a month. Um, they needed a team. And that was just track business. Of course, that business is a lot different than what it is today. Uh today it takes a little bit more manpower. I've been able to build up my sales to where they needed to be in order to have a team like that. But Craig, Vernon, and and Christian, they do a great job for me.

SPEAKER_00

Um are you the only one at uh Randall Brothers that has a team like that? Yes. Yeah. So and that I knew that.

SPEAKER_01

Um he's obviously a modest guy, but what's what's what's your secret sauce of sales?

SPEAKER_04

Oh, um, trial and error, honestly. Um you have to get out there, not be afraid to make a mistake, and have the confidence that you can fix it. And I think that the ways that you do that is through communication. Um, whether it's good or bad, you give both sides of news. Listening is definitely a big deal. Um, so you can understand exactly what the customer wants, meeting expectations, setting expectations.

SPEAKER_00

Um overrated, Alan. You just you just do what I like.

SPEAKER_01

Listening is for schmucks. What? What did he say? So, Chris, what do you think his secret sauce is?

SPEAKER_00

I would tell you, uh actually, I I will he is you're right, number one, he is a modest guy. I will tell you his secret sauce is exactly what he was talking about. Uh, he is customer service focused. Um, he has come out to a number of my jobs uh that he had no business coming to look at, just to double check that we were doing things the right way. He actually took a job that I quoted uh where I was gonna do a full window unit replacement, and he came back and said, if it were me, brother, I would not do that because I don't think you're gonna get what you want. You're gonna want to do this. He actually changed the approach, which I went back to the customer and said, So uh I've talked with my team. I didn't want to say, so the supplier told me I was an idiot. The stupid lumber guy told me the guy who just gives me freaking lumber, and and most of it's all bent up anyway. It's two by four shit. He saves the good stuff for you. That's right. So uh that's the kind of stuff that's where. Um when you look at uh I know he has a team, and I know it's not typical in our world, is that he still supplies that great you feel like you're the only customer he has. And I know that I'm not his biggest customer, I know it for a fact. I mean, I'm definitely his most important customer, and I would say favorite. I am his thank you. But but I know I'm not the biggest on Thursdays, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I'm tuning out now.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, but that customer service, that's uh he's running a business within a business. He's actually thinking about this as an entrepreneur. He's not checking the box, he's not uh just clocking in at eight and trying to sell you something that you don't need. Nope. Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Well, I and I think that solution selling is a big part of that. And what I mean by solution selling, of course, having the communication, but understanding what the project, the budget, and the expectations are. You know, the the homeowner or the client may want the highest dollar windows that there are, but the fact of the matter is they have a $150,000 house and it just doesn't make sense. Um, whether it's it's asked or not, I kind of give that opinion a little bit in a political manner, if you will. Um, but the other part is you know, also meeting the expectations. Well, why do they want an aluminum clad window? It's not because it costs the most, it's because they have these choices. Well, we can get these similar choices with this other line or whatever the cap, you know, whatever it may call for. But and given the options and solutions selling to what it is. Because if you go in there with a thousand dollar window and you got 10 of them and their budget is 7,000, you just chase that customer off and you didn't ask the questions, you don't really care about their project, you're just there to sell materials. I'm not an order taker, I'm a sales rep. That's why I consider myself. Um, good batter in between. That's that's kind of how I do my business.

Partnership Means Showing Up To Help

SPEAKER_00

Alan, um, before we get the podcast too far away from us, one of the things also that Steve has shown is that he's got a big heart. Um, and he's done it uh in numerous ways and numerous times over the years. And um, we had a nasty hurricane that hit the North Carolina area uh and ripped through Asheville, which was near and dear to my heart because that's where my daughter was. Thank God she was here when it happened. Um, and he called me and said, Hey, I I want to do something for these people in the mountains because nobody else is doing you know media, otherwise. I'm not again, no, we're not getting political. He goes, I just want to do something. Will you do something? I'm like, yeah. So what do you? I said, What do you want? He goes, Well, we don't need one shoe, we don't need two socks that don't match, we need stuff these people actually will use. I said, All right, well, he goes, I think this is gonna be covered, but let's get can you do this? And he said, I need blankets, I need rugs, I need uh materials, and we put together a drive at the trusted toolbox, got it all wrapped up, and he came over and picked it up and drove it up to North Carolina himself to drop it off to people that let's face it, they don't trust others that don't know them. And you did that, and I thought that was really special. Why why did you do what you did?

SPEAKER_04

You know, the uh uh my eyes kind of opened up. The um what what the whole story was we were actually up there as a Damascus, Virginia. Uh, me and the girlfriend and some other friends were actually up there doing a camping and hiking trip. Um, we knew that Helene was coming, but it wasn't supposed to hit that area. Long story short, we ended up getting stuck for like two and a half days. We had to be rescued by fire safety trucks to cut us out. There was probably 80 or 70 down trees. But on the way out, when we finally got out, we went through Damascus as much as we could, but it was under three feet of water. And this is a mountain town. Um, there was no help up there, there was there was no media coverage, if you will. And I just, you know, I love hiking, I love the outdoors, and to me, that was just, you know, nobody's covering this. And that was kind of true to my heart. And and the rescuers took time from their own local people to come and save people that weren't from there, if you will. And I felt like I had to, you know, pay it forward and do something, something to help out. Um, I did talk to Chris about it. Chris was right on board. I mean, that was great partnership. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00

So, what has Steve done again? Well, unfortunately, one of my lead technicians uh came home to his house two Fridays ago to see it in flames with the uh firefighters uh dousing it. Really? And he's lost his house, his four children and his wife are now displaced. And uh my general manager reached out to Steve, unbeknownst to me, and bang, what did they do? They said, Yeah, man, whatever you need. And they didn't just say whatever you need, they actually offered up and are really helping him out uh a ton. Um, and we're doing here at the Trust Toolbox. And again, going back to great partnerships, uh, that was uh it meant a ton to me what you did. I you didn't know I didn't know that until literally two days ago. And I was like, Do what? He goes, Yeah, Randall Brothers Steve said he'd do this. I'm like, Yeah, does that mean it's just awesome?

SPEAKER_04

It's one of those things. The uh you're not really looking for recognition from it. You're you're taking care of your people.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you're part of my people, Chris. You're part of my people. That's right, Alan. You're part of my people too, Alan. This is what we're all about here on the podcast. So, guys, keep listening, keep telling everybody about what's going on here because good things are happening when we all stay together, stay in your flock, keep going up that mountain, keep making things happen.

Company Roots And Protecting Your Home

SPEAKER_00

So, Steve, what are some of your biggest goals you've got left? Because you you're you're very young compared to Alan.

SPEAKER_04

Well, I do have a fake ID that says I'm 24.

SPEAKER_00

Nice.

SPEAKER_04

I've had since I was 18.

SPEAKER_00

Beautiful. Still works. We should all strive for that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, still works.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god. Uh, if I ever get ID'd again, which not literally, just give me the wand over. Doesn't it piss you off when you get ID'd now? Right. You're like, okay, yeah. Really? Do I look like the undercover cop? I mean, look at me, dude. Seriously. I clearly I know how to drink.

SPEAKER_04

Georgia 5 0.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, right. I that would be hilarious to pull it out and go, there it is. And have them go, wait, 24? That's right. That would be funny. Now we should doctor it up to you.

SPEAKER_01

You're right. I I'm in on that.

SPEAKER_04

That is be that that's an idea. I do have a fake ID story. All right. So when I moved up here, I didn't know that you could go to the post office, or not a post office, but a post office spot to get an ID. It wasn't official, but it was an ID. But basically, they took down whatever information you gave them and they printed out a little ID, then they laminated and everything else, and people actually accepted that.

SPEAKER_00

Believe it or not. Back to the Wild West. Back to the Wild West. And I only started building before 2004 when I had no idea what I was doing. Uh although I had taken building classes. No, I still didn't. But I had my general contractor's license. But for me to get it, I had to go sit there, take the test, do all the stuff. Crap you could have built. I know, but Right? I could have really built some crap. Thank you. I was gonna say, I could have really stuck with you some people. There's no integrity on that. For the love, Alan. My God. Steve Lang. So, Steve, we got a lot of people. Listen, I think people, your story has resonated with a lot of people. Would you be open to talking to people? If how can they get a hold of you?

SPEAKER_04

Um, probably best way would be email. Uh Steve.lang at randlebrothers.com. R-A-N-D-A-L-L-B-R-O-T-H-E-R-S.

SPEAKER_00

Which they went to the same uh idea that I had, and that's why all of my emails are Chris at the trusted toolbox.com because you had to have that at the time. Uh we didn't talk much about Randall Brothers, but then again, I don't know if Luther's gonna listen to this. He may. Luther, if you're listening, love you. Um, I still love RB3, I still love the fact that you guys have great money. And if you'd like to come on the podcast, Luther, I would love to have you come on the podcast too. So I'm not gonna say anything bad about you guys. Of course, I'm not. I love you guys. I remember going down, Randall Brothers was in the trim manufacturing business for years. And if you ever went down to the Randall Brothers, uh, which is right next to Georgia Tech where your son's going to school.

SPEAKER_01

Really?

SPEAKER_00

Yep. It used to be right there. And you could see this trim getting made. And I'm telling you what, man, as a guy who loves manufacturing, it was seriously cool because these machines, those those machines for wood were what I worked on in steel when I was in high school.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I was working on big uh automatic laser.

SPEAKER_01

That's not there anymore.

SPEAKER_00

So here's what they did they have sold their Randall Brothers manufacturing business. They saw what these guys had built at this PMC company and said, we want to buy you, we want to get in a distribution business to help other small builders and small remodelers do what you guys are doing. We like what you guys are doing so much. They sold their business, sold their property down by Georgia Tech to Georgia Tech. Gave back to the community. And they said, you know what, we like you guys so much that we want you guys to make sure you keep Steve Lang. No, no, that didn't happen. No, that did not happen. That did not happen. Did they even were you even part of the deal? No, probably not. No, not at all. But uh, I have met Luther. Uh it is very interesting to talk with that cat because uh the Randall Brothers family, their first money came pre-Civil War. Yeah. And then the Randall Brothers.

SPEAKER_01

You're talking uh old money.

SPEAKER_00

They had one business that was before them starting to make trim pre-Civil War. And these other brothers started this this trim business called Randall Brothers, and they became the trim that we use throughout almost all the Southeast, and I want to say it gets up in the Midwest.

SPEAKER_04

I'm sure it does. That basically trims that started with RB, those letters, that's where it came from, was Randall Brothers, believe it or not.

SPEAKER_00

Super cool history. Yeah, uh and a great company that they did. I'm glad they invested in them. Um, I've I've known these guys now. These they've become our partner of choice. Uh, we love what they do, they've helped us out so much, and I'm glad that Steve said, Hey, I'd like to come on your podcast.

SPEAKER_01

I invited myself. Did you talk to Steve about the doors you put in my house?

SPEAKER_00

Well, let's why don't you tell Steve about the doors we put in your house?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, this the my wife wanted to go from the single door to the double door with the windows and everything, and uh and she loves them. I mean, I loves them completely changed. We have neighbors who are happy about it, but did you talk to Steve about it, or did you just hey I got this mark? Yeah, I think it makes some money.

SPEAKER_00

I told him, I was like, hey, whatever you think that door costs, double it, and then I'm gonna jack it up too. As a matter of fact, Steve did not come to your house to measure those doors. You did not? I did. I snuck over there, by the way. I did you did to make sure we got the right size, but he's but he confirmed that I had the right size. He's like, that one makes sense. That he goes, Yeah, you you could order that one, dumbass. Sign this. But yeah, no, he's turned this on to great products. But that's again, we talk about this on the radio show a lot. Is that the reason you go with professionals is because we do this for a living. You know, why do you go get your oil changed now? I mean, who's changing their oil anymore? We're done, right? We're out of that business. Back when we were kids, we did it all the time. Hell, talk about this up in Michigan. We used to change our own muffler, the whole system in Michigan.

SPEAKER_04

Did you change it or did you just straight pipe it?

SPEAKER_00

No, we changed it out because I you know what, looking back on it back in the day.

SPEAKER_04

That was that was the sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we we didn't lower that shit to the ground. Uh but you look at it now, you go with professionals because you know what you're doing. And when you talk about DIY, yeah, you can. You know what? But I'm gonna say it again. I say this on our radio show every week. Your number one financial asset for many of us is your home. The number one emotional asset is your home because that's where you're raising your family, putting your head down. Yet we are so cheap when it comes to fixing our homes. And we'll go out there and we will drop that car down when I'm only making $7.25 an hour to have that super hot rod. And I'll straight pipe that sucker so it sounds even better. But I'm gonna live in a freaking rat shack that's infested and afraid the door's gonna fall in. Don't do that. Don't be dumb. Take care of your number one asset. You know what? To do that, you gotta take care of yourself too. Let's keep making sure we're taking care of ourselves each and every week. Help yourself set some goals, make it happen each and every week, every day, get 1% better. Hate that phrase, but love that idea. You can do it. Let's get going. Steve Lang, Randall Brothers, Alan, we gotta get the hell out of here. I gotta go build some shit. Thanks, y'all gears, everybody. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Small Business Department. Remember, positive attitude will help you achieve that higher altitude you're looking for in the wild world small business market.

Head Shot

Chris Lalomia

Host
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Alan Wyatt

Co-host