You Can't Read the Label from Inside the Jar | Dusty Holcomb

Your team probably doesn't have an execution problem—it has a clarity problem. Leadership consultant Dusty Holcomb explains why alignment beats effort every time.

Summary:

You can feel it when a team is drifting. The numbers point to execution, but the real issue is often something leaders overlook: clarity and alignment. In this episode, Chris Lalomia and Alan Wyatt sit down with leadership consultant and CEO mentor Dusty Holcomb to explore what separates high-performing teams from frustrated ones—and how business owners can create an environment where people consistently make better decisions, even when the boss isn't in the room.

Dusty shares practical leadership lessons from years of coaching CEOs, including why the best leaders answer five critical questions for every employee, the difference between managing people and truly leading them, and how written "Rules of Engagement" create trust, accountability, and faster decision-making for in-person and remote teams alike.

The conversation also dives into the personal side of entrepreneurship, including CEO loneliness, the value of mastermind and peer groups, building a business plan that's flexible enough to evolve, and adopting the mindset of "we get to do this" instead of "we have to do this." Finally, Dusty explains how business owners can use AI and emerging agentic AI tools to increase leverage without losing the human side of leadership.

Whether you lead a home service company, a growing small business, or any team that's ready for the next level, this episode is packed with practical strategies you can implement immediately.

🎥 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheSmallBusinessSafari

💡 GOLD NUGGETS

• Why clarity—not effort—is the biggest missing ingredient in struggling teams.
• The five questions every employee needs answered to give discretionary effort.
• The difference between being a manager and becoming a true leader.
• How "Rules of Engagement" improve communication, accountability, and decision-making.
• Why mastermind groups help CEOs overcome isolation and become better leaders.
• Building a strategic plan without becoming trapped by it.
• Reframing entrepreneurship from "have to" into "get to."
• Practical ways AI can help leaders save time and think more strategically.

🔗 Guest Links

• Website: https://arcusgroup.com
• Free Rules of Engagement Playbook: https://myrulesofengagement.com
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dustyholcomb

🌍 Follow The Small Business Safari

• Instagram: @smallbusinesssafaripodcast
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrislalomia
• Website: https://chrislalomia.com

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with another business owner who's working to build a stronger team and become a better leader.

Thanks to our sponsor Smart Hire Solutions LLC!

Transcript

Sharpening Thinking With Podcasting

SPEAKER_00 0:00

It allows me to sharpen my thinking. And so being able to have a conversation with another really smart person or to prepare for a solo episode, because about half my episodes are solo. Like I have to really do a lot of work and sharpen my thinking and prepare for them. So I find that that's a tremendous benefit. Maybe you should just wing it.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

That's what I was about to say. I'm like, I love that you're sharpening yourself, big guy. I uh I can't do I did solo. Uh I did a couple early on, did a couple like Alan couldn't make it. I'm like, ah, we'll just keep doing it. And I have to say, I went back and listened to that. It was one of the worst episodes I've ever done. I wasn't prepared. I did everything that combits off of. I couldn't wing it, and I love winging it, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

But so yeah, I'm as I'm his uh his little safety blanket because I'm here waiting for him. He he's got this elevated driveway, and I'm here and he comes in and hits that driveway so hard it looks like a carrier launch. And then he jumps out of the truck and he's got all of his equipment, and then we we patch it together five minutes before the show. I'm like, Did you do any homework? And he's like, Well, you know, I did today though. What's new about the I we'll get a guess where I'm like, you probably need to read a little bit on this guy.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

He he he did hit me on a couple of those, and I'm glad he did.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Uh well, I now have this, just so you know, like full transparency. I got I now have this mental image little thought bubble above his head on my screen. He's your pinky. And I got the turn.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Alan's my pinky gold nugget. Put that in the thing.

Small Business Pain And Reframing

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Welcome to the Small Business Safari, where I help guide you to avoid those traps, pitfalls, and dangers that lurk when navigating the wild world of small business ownership. I'll share those gold nuggets of information and invite guests to help accelerate your extent to that mountaintop of 2002. It's Jungle Fair, and I want to help you to first do the levels of only your own business. Only if you get caught, Alan is it's stopping. That's what I'm talking about. That's why we're on this podcast. We're trying to get in a different genre. You know, guys, small business is fun for us, it's exhilarating for us, it's painful for us. It's got everything that all the true crime podcasts and sex podcast genres out there have. Exhilaration pain.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

100%. And that's what we do here. We try to bring it out so we can share our pain and misery, or we can help you avoid some of the pain and misery that we all have. Even after 18 years, guys, it still finds a way to sneak up and smack me right across the cheeks.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Well, you do a fair amount of your own smacking too. So you're you're delivering as much pain as you're getting.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

I you know what I give and I get. I do. That's right. You know, that's the you know, karma. You know what? I've had I did have years ago, it reminds me of one um one person said, I hope you get what's coming to you. And I said, You know what? I hope so too. Because we did a good job on this and you were being unreasonable. And I walked away.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

And you couldn't do that in the corporate world.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

You could not do that in the corporate world. You had to sit there and go, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So we know it, guys. We talk about it, but we're still doing it. Uh, because it is, it's uh a life

Customer Gratitude And Loving The Work

SPEAKER_01 3:22

worth living. And I'm gonna give you a good story. One of my sales guys went out, did an estimate on a Friday afternoon, and it was for an older guy who'd retired. And he says, Kirk, have a seat. Uh you know, you want a lemonade? And uh he said, uh, okay. You know, normally we don't do that, but he just there's no way.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

And he said, you know, I think you have these that's the sandwich clothes, though.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Oh, we got it. Yeah, done. He he uh he closed it before he left the driveway. Uh huh. But he said, Kirk, I think what you guys do is some of the best work in the world. You get to come out, beautiful day like this, enjoy things, help people solve problems in their home that they can't solve on their own. And we get to sit there and go, thank you for helping us do work. And I was like, he sent us this text about the everything the guy said. And I was like, Was that a real story or did you make that up? I said, What was in that lemonade? Yeah, right. Sounds like bad. He said, No, man. He's like, you know what, you gotta appreciate it. So all the sales team got to hear that story, and and it really resonates. Man, that's really powerful because you're right. Sometimes we sit there and go, What in the hell are we doing? And you've got to love what you're doing because the passion drives you through the low times and it helps you understand what great times feel like. So kudos. Loved it.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

You have to, uh you know, to reframe, say, we get to do this. Yeah, even on the even on the rainy, stormy, hot, humid days, we still get to do this because there's a lot of people who would give everything to be able to do the bad days.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

And who is that?

Meet Dusty Holcomb And His Why

SPEAKER_01 4:50

That's our guest today, everybody. We got Dusty Holcomb on. Not only is he a business owner, but he is a podcast host, but his background says so much more about him. He is definitely about making sure that we're all safe as we drive around. I loved that that thing. I have been a triple A member, Alan, since I was 16 years old. My dad said, You gotta have to triple A. And I saw Dusty's resume and I went, Wow, dude, he was at triple A.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

I'm surprised triple A still keeps you. You think they'd ask you to leave politely. So you're kind of skewing the metrics. So when they so when two errors are like, who's this Lala Mia guy?

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Why is he getting so many toes from 20 vehicles? How many how many personal vehicles does this guy have? What? Huh? What?

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Oh no, we need a new battery. I'm not saying we track those statistics, but you know, you may have been flagged. That's how I knew your name, I think.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

There we go. Dusty. Yeah, your name rings a bell.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Not in a good way, no. No, it's a flag. It's right, it comes right across. But Dusty's got a great, uh, great story to tell. And uh, another uh person who was in the corporate world and said, Man, I gotta go out there and do this thing. So, Dusty, welcome to the show. And let's start with this. Why did you start your own business?

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Uh well, thanks so much for having me. And I love that question. And I'll I'll start with

The Eight-Year-Old Newspaper Hustle

SPEAKER_00 6:07

this. I think it was a seed that was planted in me when I was about eight years old. And I wrote a newspaper. My mom and her, we had a Mac SE because I'm you know a little bit older. And uh a Mac S E, she said, Yeah, I see you two looking at each other. We're all in the same age brand.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Okay, uh well, we're a little older than that. I I don't think Macs wrote when I was a kid. Okay, well, we were using it.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

We grew up with a chalkboard. Well, but chalkboards and newsletters and newspapers don't sell well anyway. So I my mom, I'm eight. I said, I'm gonna write a newspaper because I want to make money. I'm sure there was some candy bar I wanted. So she helped me write a newsletter, and I went to the little town post office and I sold them, and I made for a quarter each, which you know, back in the early 80s was probably like five bucks now. And I made like a dollar fifty. And all I could remember thinking was that was a lot of work to make a dollar fifty. And uh this is where I first learned the challenges you know about marketing and economics. We lived in a town, a population of 250. So, you know, I didn't really understand what I was getting into. And I think I did two editions. I wish I still had them, but I think that was my entrepreneurial seed. And I it just took me, you know, another 30-something years, 40 years before I got around to going, I'm actually not gonna work for the man anymore. I'm not gonna, you know, have another boss or make rich people richer. I'm actually gonna pursue a passion and a dream and do it on my own and learn and grow. Uh, so that that was the reason. I've always been the guy that would support the startup or support the entrepreneur or find a way to go and patronize the the small business. And when I had the opportunity after my uh leaving my last organization, I went, I can either go back to that or I can take the leap and maybe fulfill the thing that I've been pursuing since I was eight years

Have A Plan But Loosen Grip

SPEAKER_00 7:57

old.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

And how long have you been on your own? Uh just two years. Yeah, so two years into it. Uh going like you thought. Did you have a did you have a three-year business plan? And uh I did.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

I but I also had a very wise mentor that said, hey, the number one thing you need to know about entrepreneurship and starting something from scratch is you can have a plan, but if you hold on to it too tightly, you'll fail. So have a direction that you want to go in and be willing to adjust based on what you learn and do as you go into the market, as you go and hear what your customer really, really wants. So I would say that I have I greatly under uh anticipated the opportunities and uh the need for certain things because I'm doing things today that I don't even think I knew were necessary or needed two years ago, but it's just because I was paying attention to what the customer said.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

That's a great gold nugget. Uh you know, create a business plan, just don't hold on to it too tight. Be able to manipulate, you got to be able to adapt and overcome and and change with where the dynamics are going. And I I had somebody very similar who said the same thing is don't sit there and spend six months developing a program unless you know there's a need. Yeah. I'd rather have you go out there and build the process after you found out there's a need. And uh the perfect example might be stole it all from Mike Tyson, right? Everybody has a plan to get punched in the face. Get punched in the face, and brother. Round 18. I'm in.

SPEAKER_02 9:21

Or getting punched in other places.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

I'm getting punched, and it's it's uh low shots, high shots, medium shots, back shots, heel legal shots. I'm taking them all.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

Well, somebody else also once told me that as I started this, they said uh as an entrepreneur, you'll never sleep quite the uh the same as you did when you didn't have to worry about the you know when the paycheck was gonna process and all those things. Uh so you'll never sleep quite the same, but you'll sleep both better and worse at the same time. You just think about different things.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

That's exactly right. That is so that that is so true. You sleep, uh you sleep deeper and have even more nightmares. Um so it's it's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

Well, okay, so you've been doing this a couple of years. What what did you start with and what has happened since you you're uh you know willing to let it evolve?

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Yeah.

From CEO Coaching To Forum Needs

SPEAKER_00 10:10

So I I after leaving my last organization, and I knew that there was gonna be another chapter. And I have spent most of my career being deeply passionate about leadership and have been able to explore that in the context of a corporate environment. Your last two roles, I was president or CEO of organizations and always around this idea if I build better leaders, the organization will be successful. So as I was navigating this, I was like, I knew that this was gonna happen. I almost started my own for six years ago, now five years ago. And I was talking to uh a person and we were at lunch, and I'm on her board, and I said, Well, I think my next chapter is gonna involve me starting a leadership consulting practice and really focusing on CEO mentoring and in helping people bridge the gap when they get into that seat and you know, all the challenges that come from that. And she literally came out of her seat and said, Well, I'll be your first customer. So it's like, oh, got this, got this sign that said, This is the thing I need to do. And I had about four or five more of those. So it became this, all right, this is what I'm gonna do. And what I realized is I love doing working with CEOs and I love working with them one-on-one on vision and strategy and leadership teams. What I didn't appreciate or realize at the same time was that there is, because I've been in forum groups for 20 years, how lonely it is if you're not part of that. So when you're running your own business, you're in the CC, the CEO seat, it is lonely, but I always had a YPO forum or a vistage forum or another group and and realized, oh, there's there's there's an intermixing here. There's leadership development, leadership coaching, executive consulting, and a need to create a forum type of environment. So I didn't anticipate having group programs or doing anything like that. I didn't even know that was a thing two years ago, and then have found, oh, there's actually a real need for

Agentic AI Joins The Consulting Mix

SPEAKER_00 12:07

that. And in then over the last two years, maybe it's because I don't have minions uh of people anymore, I've really really leaned hard into the world of agentic AI and building some pretty interesting tools so I could have other people to talk to and at least will agree with me from time to time. And now I have a lot of CEOs and leaders that I I work with going, I love what we're doing on the leadership side, but I really want to know what you're doing on the AI side as well. So that's actually become you know an evolution in the conversation. I would never have known that two years ago, because two years ago, Chat GPT was just like a super Google, and now it's you know, now it's an entirely different world.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Now that's uh that's very interesting. You hit on two hot topics for me. One, um, first, leadership uh means everything in an organization. And uh it is hard to develop uh as a leader, uh, especially when you're in the throes of the passion that is small business as you grow. Uh and for us, as Alan and I have talked about, uh my my last, my first role at Sun Trust, I had 400 people working for me with nine direct reports. My last role, I had four direct reports and 25 working on small stuff. And uh I had exactly zero direct reports uh when I started my business. Where's my IT guy? Who's taking out the trash? Hey, this doesn't work. No, that's still you, buddy. And then you grow and you have to grow into being a leader. You you know, you had to survive and adapt and then grow and scale. Uh, I can see where that's tough. And then you talked about serving your niche in the CEO world, where they did have an established business and and how do you navigate that world? Uh, and you talked about the forums. That's what I wanted to get into a little bit because I'm part of a mastermind group here. Uh, our guy, Chris Hanks, has been on the show. Uh, is I'm part of his group. He's visiting trained, but just an amazing entrepreneurial mind and spirit. And the group that I have has been um has it gotten me away from the loneliness. You know, this has also helped having Alan here for the last four and a half years. But before that, is it therapy time now? It is a little bit. I'm I'm going, I'm sitting on the couch. But I think the forum groups, are you still part of the forum? Is the me landing the plane here?

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Yes, absolutely. In fact, I belong to two. So I'm still a member of an organization called YPO, and I have a forum in the Carolinas. Uh, and then uh when I was in Tennessee, uh still have a forum I belong to in in Nashville. So in fact, I was in, as we record this, I was in Nashville yesterday for our forum meeting. So I meet with those two groups once a month, and it's a way to disassociate myself from the the grind so that I can elevate my thinking, elevate the relationships, uh, get outside in perspective, all the benefits that you are well aware of. Um, there, you know, there's this label that leadership is lonely, and and it's true, but it's also self-selected because you have to uh buy into that fallacy in order for it to be true. There's lots of ways to get outside of it. And you know, I always tell people that I'm working with like the value of a forum group, the value of coach, the value of any of those things is you know, a friend who can sit across from you for four and a half years and talk is this idea that you can't read the label from inside the jar. And if you're not real careful, you'll buy into your own BS. And so having a forum group is incredibly powerful.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Gold nugget, write that down, agentic AI. He used that phrase. I just wanted to say it again. Um that's Cindy, by the way. Gold nugget. You're right, you can't read the label from the inside. I love that line.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

Uh, that is good. That is. I feel like leader and Chris and I talk about leadership all the time. I'm very passionate about it too. And so I was excited when I was looking through you you put some great content on LinkedIn, by the way. So for anybody listening, they should definitely uh follow you and and uh pay attention to that. Dusty Holcomb.

Leaders Versus Managers In Small Business

SPEAKER_02 15:55

Yeah, so yes, and uh narrator. I think it's a lot harder, or maybe you're just exposed. It's a lot harder to be a leader in a small firm or in a startup, I think. Um a big company, you can hide your deficiencies. You may have a dynamic sales manager that covers the fact that you don't know how to lead in sales, or you don't have the carrot, you don't have the career path to offer, you don't have maybe the 401k. I mean, so to just get people to follow you when you've got nothing when you're starting requires intense leadership skills, and you've got nobody to hide behind. And uh so I yeah, I'm very interested to talk to you about what makes a good leader because I there's a part of me that thinks you can teach people leadership skills, but I still feel like some leaders just are, and there are some people that can't, and there's a ton of people in leadership positions who just aren't leaders.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Uh oh wow, you've opened up a whole Pandora's box of of conversations. Which one of those nuggets do I want to grab first? All right. So let me let me say this. Um, I firmly don't believe that leaders are born. I think, and I don't think leadership is learned.

Five Questions That Create Followership

SPEAKER_00 18:06

I think leadership is a learning behavior. And the best leaders that I've ever met have embraced fully a learning behavior because they've recognized that whatever it is that's gotten them to where they are will not get them to where they want to be. So, like a first principle, leaders are always learning. You know, Harry Truman wrote once that, you know, not all readers are leaders, but all leaders are readers. And so this idea of learning. Uh, there's a big difference between a leader and a manager, right? There's this idea that like a leader is a person who is invested in ensuring that the people that they are entrusted to care for, to provide for, to serve know where we're going, why it matters, how we're going to get there, and where they fit in and what's in it for them. Like those five questions are like I and I work through those with whether I'm talking to the you know CEOs or senior execs in billion-dollar companies or a company of five. I think that five question framework is the difference between uh activating discretionary effort and having a bunch of mercenaries on your team who are there to just do the minimal effort. And the manager is managing minimal effort expectations against a target, and a leader is trying to unlock that discretionary effort so that the person brings their full selves to the work because they they believe in the purpose, they believe that in the reason that we're here beyond making money, they understand where we're going, what the vision is, they know how we're gonna get there. And then the most important one is where the how they fit into it, how why their work matters, and then what's in it for them. And I think the the person uh who can do that can bring to life leadership in a way that so many, so many people can't. I do agree you uh good managers can hide behind the label of a leadership in a big organization and not be exposed. I think it it falls apart in a smaller organization. If you really want to unlock discretionary effort, you have to be a leader.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Yeah, I I 100% agree. So I'm just trying to figure out the difference between a manager and a leader.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

So a manager is essentially a cattle driver. A leader implies that when you turn around, there's people actually following you.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

So so having the cattle prod and the dam it doll isn't a good thing to have in my office coming.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

It gets the job done. But dammit dolls are great. Those are those are stress-reliever tools.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

I I it's right in my office.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

You want to know that people And I have little F but it's that discretionary effort. I love that. Unlock the discretionary effort. You yeah, you want to know that when you're not there, you know, they're not just bringing out the beer and having a wild party, they're actually getting the job done. They might actually be even doing it better when you're not there.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

You just hit the nail on the head. Like if you're doing your job well, the person who's closest to the problem, the opportunity, or the customer and has more context than you do, has the information they need to make a better decision than you can make because they're the one who's closest to it. And, you know, there's this old saying, hey, I want to make sure that my presence is present when I'm not present. Like that's what leaders do

Making Good Decisions Without You

SPEAKER_00 21:12

is they've connected the dots for people so that they make that right decision. They make the better decision. Uh, and it's it's a game changer. You know, managers just ensure that the the work gets done, um, but they don't do it for the people. They don't care about the person involved, they're just hitting the targets.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

And a leader, a leader inspires you. I mean, ultimately, people, I mean, they're inspired by the leader, but they get to the point where they're working for themselves in your in your organization.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Yeah, and that's why they're doing personal ownership and everything. Like uh what we talk about at the trusted toolbox, one of our things on our mission plaque is you are the face of the company, regardless of your role. I don't care if you're collecting a payment or doing the work in the field or making that first contact as a the customer service first touch superstar. You're all got you're the face of the company. Own it like your name's on the shingle. So uh when you see that in action, you're right. That's actually really rewarding as a leader. Uh, who I was out and I was in the office for the first time on uh Monday afternoon and saw that everything was was clipping along, and I heard people having conversations. They didn't know I was coming in, they thought I was still out, and I heard the conversations going, and I just I was kind of like, Good. They weren't fucking around. No, that wasn't what I thought.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

I was you were ready to stick your foot through the door again, weren't you?

SPEAKER_01 22:29

I was you know, catch somebody doing something good, but I did. I came in and I said, Hey guys, sounds like you guys got that figured out. I'm going back just to try to sell some shit. So I'll be back.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Well, when you do that, then you're liberated to do the thing that you're best in the world at, or however it is that you add the most value to the business. Uh and what I see is like there's just every every there you go.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

Hey, that apparently this is what I'm best at filling. Chris. With a little more bourbon.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

There are people who have gifts, and then there are people who actually know how to use their gifts. And you gentlemen clearly know how to use your gifts.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Thank you. Cheers to that. Bourbon touring. Sponsored by Woodford Reserve. Uh double oaked. Double oaked. Oh, good call. No, but not to derail the leadership. I think when you're working with CEOs, it sounds like that's probably one of the biggest gaps you've seen is getting people to change their mindset of how they got to where they are and where they got to go, has to change their mindset a little bit. And that seems like that's got to be a hard lever to pull.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

It is. I mean, there's I have a first principle belief that in order to have influence on others, you know, John Maxwell says, you know, leadership is influence,

Letting Go As You Level Up

SPEAKER_00 23:32

nothing more, nothing less. If you want to have influence on others, you have to lead yourself first. Like the like the principle of leadership is to say, I am aware, I am how do I need to change? How do I need to evolve? How do I need to show up? And as people move up in ranks, if you know, you're never fully prepared, very rarely, for the next seat, right? And so when you get into the seat, there's, you know, there's a reason imposter syndrome is such a big deal. CEOs that I work with, and and almost every CEO that I know, all sit in the seat and go, man, I hope nobody finds out that I have no idea what I'm doing, or like that I that I have uncertainties too. And they just can't talk about that, right? You can't go and tell your team, or I'm not really sure this is the right strategy, you know, at least not until there's a very high degree of trust. But this idea of like, I'm not quite sure I know the answer, or I'm not ready, or um, you know, uh I'm lonely, like that's why you have to have the forums and those other things. But every CEO that I work with, everyone I know, as they move into the roles, they have to let go of the thing that made them successful in their last role. And if they hang on too tightly to that, and I think it's it's especially powerful. I can use my own uh corollary. I had to let go of what made me very successful in my last couple of roles as I became an entrepreneur because those things were very different. And so, you know, because I could uh in my last couple of roles, I was a scaling CEO. So, like, how do we scale the business very, very quickly? How do we grow really, really fast? Well, I actually had to let go of that go. I don't need to be thinking about scaling right now. I need to think about growing. And that's a different end of a continuum, it's a different set of behaviors that I needed to deploy because I could get locked into a scaling mindset and engineer solutions before the customer, I even know if the customer wants them. Um, so I think I think that it's this idea that of constantly tuning and reinventing and being willing to put on the altar those things that no longer serve you. And when you move up in executive ranks, you have to be comfortable with that. And you also have to be comfortable having less information about what's going on at the deepest, darkest recesses of the organization and than you've ever had, and focus on making sure that the organization knows where we're going and why it matters. So you started a podcast. Why? Uh I started a podcast for two reasons. That was a good question. Like that. I

Why Start A Podcast At All

SPEAKER_00 25:57

know. Like you're like you want the truth.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

You want the Alan's gonna talk more about leadership, and we're gonna I'm gonna derail it.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

No, no, no. Do you want to you want the truth or do you want the uh the fun answer? Uh fun and then truth. The fun answer is I think I'm I'm a little bit uh I I would lie if I didn't say it was a little bit self-serving, is that I just like talking to really interesting people and learning. And so it was like, oh, this is a good platform for me to talk to really interesting people, learn about what they do. I don't have, you know, as I, you know, it's me and a couple people. I don't have a, you know, other than my clients, you know, I'm not talking to big teams every day. I'm not doing town hall meetings with hundreds of people. Let me just talk to really interesting people and learn from them. So a little bit self-serving. That's the kind of the fun answer. And that's probably why I have on the show. I'll have people like uh former strength and conditioning coach uh for the Miami Heat, or I have clinical psychologist, or I'll have you know a CEO. I have a wide variety of guests because it's just interesting.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

So let's name drop because he had somebody on his podcast we had on cash flow mic.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

Oh, cash flow mic just had an episode this past week.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

I know I listened to it. That's funny. I was laughing because you pull this out. This guy was a uh state trooper, went to school, um, and didn't he tell a great story and great guest, yeah. But um, you're right, you get to meet some really interesting people and they they hit and help you uh grow as an individual, as an and for me as a business owner. So then why is he with us?

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Well, that's why I was really interesting people. Well, and then then the other reason is I have a time. Well, well, when interesting people reach out to me and say, hey, we'd love to have you on your on our podcast, I'm like, ooh, sounds like a fun conversation. I don't have to be the one asking all the questions.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

So that was gonna be the next question. Which side do you like being on? The interviewer or the interviewee?

SPEAKER_00 27:46

Uh can I say the cop-out answer and say both? Yeah, that's not fair. Yeah, it's not fair. Um, it it it depends on the guest or the host. Uh, I love it when I'm with a host, like you guys, dynamic fun, laughing, you're just peppering me. That's super fun. Uh, and I enjoy that. When I get a guest on that we can do that with, that's super fun. Uh, I would say I'd say it's it's really the the one that I uh enjoy the most is when I get a really dynamic guest and we just forget that there's a host and the guest relationship, we're just having a conversation. And I think that's the dynamic that I like, and I get to do that in both places if it's a good show.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Yeah, I I would tell you so. My answer back is uh I would have said both two cop out, but um, I like being in the interviewee uh with a good interviewer, and and especially when they bring out uh stuff that I you know I've forgotten about, they'll ask a question, it leads me down that path. I'm like, oh um, but I mean, I've had people ask me this all the time, why did you do this podcast? And I did it because yes, eventually I want to build influence and do something similar to what you do, not necessarily leadership coaching, but uh helping uh home service companies uh help them scale their business. Or if you're thinking about leaving, you know, I wish I would have had this resource. Um, but I uh, you know, the other part is I've had people say, Well, you make any money out of it I'm like, well, I don't know. I'm like, do you make any money playing golf? You don't, but that's four hours that we go out there and hit a little white ball around. I kick it around with Alan for a couple hours every couple weeks, and uh, this king goes out, and I said, You know that I'm having a great time and I'm not losing any golf balls.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

You get a lot of positive reinforcement out of this, though. I do you're meeting some really cool people, but uh it's amazing. And I don't know if you've had the same experience, but people reach out to Chris on a regular basis from all around the world, and they're like, Hey, can I pick your brain for a minute? I mean, that yeah, uh that would stroke my ego.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Yeah, no, it that it does help. That's that has been nice. That's funny you should say it because I just had one not all over the world, but uh up in New Jersey uh that reached out to me and uh we're gonna kick up on the phone here in the next uh couple days.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

That is actually, yeah, I know different language and everything.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

Yeah, I know. That's what uh yeah, it is he's not even Italian, so I can't even pull that one.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

What are you doing? Not a paysagna.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

I know, and I'm giving him time. I don't know, we'll see. No, but but yeah, so I that's why I think that's interesting. Uh, not to derail it, but just as you do that, I think it helps you also. You talked about I'm still going back that free. I'm using this one, man. I'm stealing it. You can't read the label from inside the jar. And when I come out here and do this podcast with Alan, uh I get to step out and step up a level, but not to the level of my mastermind group where we're digging in and accountability and really thinking and elevating. But here we we have some really interesting conversations and I love it.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

I I feel it the same way, and it's it's this idea of you know, for me, I wanted to not not just not create influences insofar as I wish I'd had some of the resources available to me. Like, you know, the thesis for me is I want to have we've all paid tuition in life, we've all learned lessons. And if we can get you know, guests on, or if I can have share something that helps someone else uh leverage the tuition that I've already paid or that someone else has already paid and do something better or different, then it's totally worth it. And I love having you know the same outreach conversations, people reach out from you know around the world and you're going, hey, I heard you on this podcast. I'd love to learn more about this idea. Sure, I'll I'm an open book, I'll send you everything. Uh the other thing I've found, I'm curious if this is the same for you guys, it allows me to sharpen my thinking. And so being able to have a conversation with another really smart person or to prepare for a solo episode because about half my episodes are solo. Like, I have to really do a lot of work and sharpen my thinking and prepare for them. Uh so I find that that's a tremendous benefit. Maybe you should just wing it.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

That's what I was about to say. I'm like, I love that you're sharpening yourself, big guy. I uh I can't do I did solo. Uh I did a couple early on, did a couple like Alan couldn't make it. I'm like, ah, we'll just keep doing it. And I have to say, I went back and listened to that. It was one of the worst episodes I've ever done. I wasn't prepared. I did everything that combits off of. I couldn't wing it, and I love winging it, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

But so yeah, I'm his I'm his uh his little safety blanket because I'm here waiting for him. He he's got this elevated driveway, and I'm here, and he comes in and hits that driveway so hard it looks like a carrier launch. And then he jumps out of the truck and he's got all of his equipment, and then we we patch it together five minutes before the show. I'm like, Did you do any homework? And he's like, Well, you know, I did today though. What's the I will get a guess where I'm like, you probably need to read a little bit on this guy.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

He he did he did hit me on a couple of those, and I'm glad he did.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Uh well, I now have this, just so you know, like in full transparency. I got I now have this mental image, a little thought bubble above his head on my screen. He's your Binky. And I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

Alan's my binky, gold nugget. Put that in the thing. Alan is crucial. I'm telling you, I I've done them, and so you know, I also I do a radio show here locally uh for home service providers, and uh it goes out on Saturday mornings at 9 a.m. And uh I have another co-host, but I have to sit in the interviewer seat and he gets to play the color commentary. And uh, I have to have a different personality, different persona, the whole thing. It's uh that has actually helped me really think more and more about you know, helping me with public speaking, uh the whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

I I wish I had a co-host. Now I'm rethinking my entire model because it would be a lot more fun, especially if there's Woodford.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

You gotta find somebody who's especially with Woodford. You gotta find somebody who's fun. And I would tell you it's it's a labor of love. As you know, people ask us all the time, hey man, I'm gonna start a podcast. I listen to yours. I'm like, Are you sure about that? Yeah, because we've been

Staying Committed And Nailing Audio

SPEAKER_01 33:34

doing it for four and a half years, guys. And uh, for everybody listening, usually in your cars, maybe on a walk, uh, probably not anywhere else. You're by yourself, you're listening to this one. Podcasting, you know, everybody has one, you know, all the same crap. Well, you know what? Everybody has a remodeling company too, or everybody has a knife sharpening company, or everybody has a pick your poison, man. It's all out there. Doing this is uh we joke about being winging it and doing all this stuff, but we wouldn't have done it if we didn't stay committed to it. And for four and a half years, it's not as easy as people think it is uh to actually get it going, which is why we're up. I think we're in the top with three percent.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

So you need to get it going. It's hard to continue to do it.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

It sure is because you like you like you said, Dust, you gotta have interesting people come on uh and you gotta find people. And then uh we love having people come in in the studio with us here in Johns Creek. Uh a lot of local people have come in, and uh, we love it when they come in person because it's just so much more intimate and more fun, and I think it comes across on the on the uh on the cast as well.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

I couldn't agree with you more. It's and it just it makes you step your game up. It takes a lot of work. And you know, I've had people same thing ask me, hey, is it easy? No, it's easy to start, but if you want to get good at anything, you have to say no to a lot of things that are distractions, and it takes a lot of work.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

It does. And uh uh Alan, one of the things Alan always harps on me in mind is make sure we have great audio. Um, so we've got a good setup. Um, but we're always continually doing this. And the reason I bring that up is that uh here in Atlanta, uh, we're Atlanta Braves country. Uh so if you're in a basement, uh, you know, Bobby Cox just recently passed away to date this a little bit, and they had Chipper Jones on the radio talking about him, and his cell phone was cutting in and out, and I'm driving in the truck, and I'm sitting there because Chipper Jones, another legend who I love listening to, um, for his candor and his real uh authentic uh take, I think. And it was cutting in and out, and I'm like, oh my god. I all I could hear was Alan in the background going, that's what happens on our podcast. That's what happens on our podcast. So, guys, hopefully the audio is solid. It is too. It's right in my head. I'm glad it wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Details matter.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

Details matter. So getting back to leadership and doing all that, let's go, Alan.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

Yeah, I got a question. So in reading your posts, it seems like there was a consistent theme to me about

Leading From Distance Through Layers

SPEAKER_02 35:47

the way I always say it is you crack the whip, how do you know it snaps at the other end? And so as a manager, it's pretty easy to control the room and control the environment you're in. But when you get to a larger organization where you've got you know remote people and things like that, that's where the leadership really comes in. And what what are some of the challenges that you're seeing people really having when it comes to leading from a distance or leading through multiple layers of uh of staff? Yeah, it's a great question.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

And what I see, yeah, it's like double gold stars there because it it it's especially it's organizations, great.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

And we just end the podcast. Sorry, Dusty. Double star, Alan. You sucked up to the wrong host, Dusty.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

All right, I did call him Binky.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

That's true. You didn't have to get back. You're like, oh shit, I do.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

There's a redeeming five years or no.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

It's the Chris and Binky show. It is a great question.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

So yeah, I can this is great. Uh that's a great question, Binky. So what what uh I'm not gonna be able to unsee this at this point. I know as organizations grow, the span of control from the center decreases. And what really happens, and this is what I spend a lot of time talking with leaders about, is we we are really good at

Fix Clarity And Alignment Upstream

SPEAKER_00 37:08

seeing execution problems. Like the results aren't there, or there's this gap, there's this problem, there's this issue. And we all immediately run towards the fix for the execution problem. And I always have to remind folks and remind myself, okay, there's almost always an upstream issue that happened before the execution failure. Do we have a lack of alignment or do we have a lack of clarity? Do we are we clear on where we're going? Are we clear on what's important? Are we clear on what great looks like? Most of the time, there's not clarity. And then if we have clarity, have we spent the energy, but done the reps, built the uh the traction to create alignment? And so in talking with leaders, the the easy thing is to diagnose the problem at a at a surface level, at an execution failure level, but where we actually spend most of our time is going, okay, what's the root cause? Is it a clarity issue and an alignment issue? And how are you, as the leader, influencing the person who's influencing the outer circle? Like, are you clear? Are they clear? Do they really understand what great looks like, what the goal is? And I'll give you a practical example of that. So uh working with a leadership team, I have a practice that I work with every leader on, something I've been doing myself for 20 years, where we craft

Writing Rules Of Engagement

SPEAKER_00 38:25

our rules of engagement. It's just a simple process. I actually have a book coming out about this where you write your rules of engagement guide and you you share it with your team. And it's meant to say, hey, here's what I value, here's what I expect of myself, here's what I expect of my team, here's how I make decisions, here's how I'll communicate. And the amount of time that I'll talk with, I was giving a uh speech to a group of CEOs a couple months ago, and I was telling them about this practice and walking them through it, and they're going, I've never put in writing, I've never communicated to people what I expect. And they just always figure it out. But now I'm sitting here going, I have made people move so much slower. I've got I've never given them the gift of what they need to understand. So when I'm working with organizations and I'm seeing them slip at the edges, I always go back to the center and say, Do we have clarity? Have we built alignment? That's what's going to give us the execution we we want. And then we go to a very practical exercise at an individual leader level, craft your rules of engagement as a method of creating clarity and building alignment. And then when they connect those dots, they start doing it and they start practicing it. That's how we actually fix it. So it's a if they come in saying, Hey, I have an execution problem, help me fix it. And most of the time we spend our energy getting clear and then getting aligned, and the execution problem fixes itself.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

Clarity and alignment. I love that phrase. I'm going to actually bring that back another great gold nugget.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

But you dropped a little bit of a word for the day, clarity and alignment.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Uh actually, I was going fierce and fabulous. That's a different story. Was that reality TV? Uh, so Dusty, you dropped a little nugget in there. You're going to be uh in the publish author club. Um, because let's between the three of us, uh, one of us is, Alan. Uh I'm still working on it. I got mine going, baby. The small business safari brought Zoo to the wild. That's Chris Lalamy's great book. But anyway, Dusty Holcomb's joining the club. What's going to be the name of your book?

SPEAKER_00 40:20

Have you titled it yet? Uh, this one is uh your rules of engagement exactly how to make sure your team does the right thing the first time.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

There you go. Make sure

Dusty’s Book And Where To Find Him

SPEAKER_01 40:28

you go out and find that out. I know we're coming time at the end of the uh episode. So, Dusty, how can everybody get out there and get a hold of you? Let's get that. We'll have it all in the show notes. Let's hit this stuff up in.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

Well, I'd uh I'd say this uh if people are interested in doing that same practice that I work on with CEOs, they can go to myrules of engagement.com, download the whole playbook. Um, and I give them all the tools, all the stuff. And because the reason I give that away is I found it this be the single biggest clarifier for a person that they can then share with their team. And I have clients now who make it a standard practice within their whole company. Um, so give it as a gift to your audience. But hit me on LinkedIn. Uh, you can go to our company website, uh Arcusgroup.com. But at the end of the day, I I love having great conversations. So I I've try to try to find any way I can do uh I can to find that. However, you can find me. LinkedIn's always the best.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

There you go, guys. At least you got that figured out. Hopefully you're still with us because Binky Alan Wyatt has a question.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

Well, and you know my role here, because I'm listening to you just go off and and then the and the guests is laying down some great stuff, and

What Clarity Looks Like In Practice

SPEAKER_02 41:33

I'm like, I'm putting myself in the listener, and you're talking about clarity. What does that mean? What does that look like? Because I could I know a ton of people who have, you know, we had this meeting, I laid down the law, this is what I told them to do, and that that was clear. That's clarity. So I I mean, what does clarity mean? Does it mean not going in too many directions at once? Is it a is it a clear initiative for 2026 that I reinforce how often through communication of what sort? I mean, what can you in a nutshell talk about what clarity really looks like in an organization?

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Yeah, it I would put it as simply as this what we're gonna do or what we're gonna be by when. Can we decode everything that we're doing to what by when or who we're going to be by when? And so clarity is not a process of communicating at people, clarity is a process of listening to understand if it has landed. So what you know, when I'm working with with teams and leaders and we'll say, Hey, do you have clarity as a leader? And many times they don't, because I'll ask the question, all right, what does great look like? When we do this initiative, how will you know if it was successful? Exactly what will have been accomplished that will tell you if this work was done and done well. And if we can't answer that question, we can't expect our teams to do it. But if we can answer, if we can answer those questions, then the next one is okay, uh let me let's ask your team, do they see it the same way? You have to say things so many times that it echoes where people are saying the stuff as if you were not even there, and it's as if it were their own words. So that's the alignment piece. But I think clarity is an as a listening exercise. And if you can't listen, get it out of your own head clearly, you'll never get it from your team.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

Those are great gold nuggets here at the end. And I tell you, you know, in my last newsletter, I just put out that better the best leaders ask better questions, don't give answers, ask better questions. And that's always been a mantra that I picked up from Chris Hanks, one of my great mentors. Um he's the Buddhist of the mountain. But uh, you you brought that up. That is clarity, and that's that that was probably the best definition of clarity and how it meets a boot. I'm sure that's gonna be in your book.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

So I get a retroactive great question, Alan.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

No, you get a retroactive great question. I think I'm jumping on this. Way to go, Binky. Binky buddy. I want that in the show notes, Cindy. Binky is Alan's new nickname.

SPEAKER_02 44:07

God, that might stick. I have a fear that that really might stick.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

But what's hilarious though is that Binky, everybody's thinking he's a small dude. He's not, right? I mean, my man's 6'7, so I'm a big Binky.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

He's a big Binky, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

Yeah. So uh, so you probably, if you're listening, and guess good news, guys, coming out on the podcast. I just got some news that uh

AI Notes Video Plans And Goodbye

SPEAKER_01 44:29

we're actually gonna have a video on Apple Podcasts starting to gen up and we're gonna start putting our podcast out there. We've been putting them out on YouTube. Don't forget to go out there and check them all out. We're all out there. We're giving these podcasts because we're just trying to help everybody, right? I think uh Dusty, you said it the best, and that is if I learn something from the tuition of hard knocks, I hope I can pass it along because I hope you don't screw it up as bad as I did, and I hope you guys can keep making it happen because this wild world of entrepreneurship is wild all the way around. And this has been one of those great conversations you got. Hopefully, you got something out of it. Because if you didn't, man, that's on you. If you want to go back and rewind, listen to that thing again, you probably should. You should. And don't forget, you can use AI to summarize some of this shit, man. I'm telling you, he talked about Dusty Talk. I just used AI today. I use it every day in my business now, and it's not scary anymore, Alan. It's okay. It is really scary. I know it scares you.

SPEAKER_02 45:24

It does it's uh I know that it's coming.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

It is uh the new world. I uh I spent a lot of time in that uh in that space, and it's it's fascinating what's coming.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

It is fascinating, and I think because of that, uh, and and we don't have time to hit this one today, guys, but we may bring Dusty on in the future and talk more about what AI has done and how it helps in your business. We should, we should. If you'd do this, that'd be great because you crushed it today.

SPEAKER_02 45:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

It's been awesome. Yeah, you know what? I think the reason we like him so much too is because he was originally now. Were you originally born in Georgia?

SPEAKER_00 45:55

Originally born in Georgia, born in Columbus, Georgia.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

How about that? There was something that we liked about him. We knew there was something we liked about him, and he he did the reverse commute to the rest of us, and he got out of Atlanta or anywhere near Atlanta and got out to Charlotte, North Carolina. From my friends in Tasmania, that's about four hours as the crow flies. Uh, but if traffic's out, it could be six hours to get to where he's at. Does it just depends? All right, Troy, you listen to that one. I know you listen all the time, buddy. Appreciate you guys. Keep getting up that mountaintop. Make it happen. We got to get out of here and make it roll. Let's go make some money. Cheers, everybody. Thank you for listening to this episode of the small business department. Remember, positive attitude will help you achieve that higher altitude you're looking for is the small business department.