How A Former Umpire Builds Financial Confidence | Jack Oujo

What does a bad call behind home plate, a falling stock market, and a tough day in business have in common? You have to reset, trust your process, and be ready for the next pitch.

Summary:
Jack Oujo went from calling balls and strikes as a minor league baseball umpire to becoming a CPA, CFP, and founder of a wealth management firm that grew largely through referrals to roughly $900 million under management.

Jack shares how the lessons he learned on the baseball field shaped the way he approaches money, leadership, and business. An umpire can’t dwell on a bad call—the next pitch is coming. The same principle applies when markets fall, clients panic, or business owners face difficult decisions.

We dig into why a 20% market decline shouldn’t come as a surprise, how planning for worst-case scenarios can create confidence, and why disciplined habits like living below your means, maximizing a 401(k), and paying attention to taxes can build long-term financial independence.

Jack also gets practical about growing a business: hiring before you feel completely ready, creating repeatable processes, building a culture where employees work with you rather than for you, and understanding that taking care of your people ultimately means better care for your clients.

Most importantly, Jack explains why down markets and difficult moments can actually be opportunities to earn trust. When everyone else is reacting emotionally, strong leaders reset, follow the plan, and focus on what they can control.

We also hear the story behind Jack’s book, Too Smart To Be An Umpire, and why he believes success is less about trophies and more about the process—and the legacy you leave behind.

💡 GOLD NUGGETS

• Why a 20% down market is normal—and why your plan should already account for it
• How Jack went from minor league baseball umpire to CPA, CFP, and wealth management entrepreneur
• Why saving early and living below your means can create real financial freedom
• Why federal income taxes may be one of your biggest lifetime expenses
• How a repeatable “reset” process helps leaders recover from mistakes
• Why candor and authenticity build lasting client trust
• When it’s time to hire and start working on the business instead of only in it
• Why taking care of employees leads to an overwhelmingly positive client experience
• The importance of financial planning around worst-case scenarios rather than optimistic forecasts
• Why process, not trophies, is at the heart of Jack’s approach to business and life

🎥 Watch the full episode on YouTube:
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Website |oujowealthstrategies.com (Company) 

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LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrislalomia/
Website | https://chrislalomia.com

Tell your friends, tell your family—if you liked it, let them know! And ask yourself: What part of your financial or business plan needs a better reset button?

Thanks to our sponsor Smart Hire Solutions LLC!

Transcript

Down Markets Are Part Of Game

SPEAKER_03 0:00

You get measured as an advisor on what happens when the bleep hits the fan, okay, when there's down markets, which a 20% down market occurs once every four or five years. People, you know, that that's like having a when the stocks go down and clients complain, I say to them, that's like when you have a baby. If you said to the OBGYN, gee, this freaking kid's crying at two o'clock in the morning. I don't understand why. But stocks go down and and and they can go down very violently. And that's all part of the game. And you have to set yourself up so that you know how to deal with those situations.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

I think maybe that's the title of the podcast. When you birth a baby and you look at the OBGYN and go, why is this baby crying at two o'clock in the morning after I started my business? I think Jack is earning sense. He is. He is. Welcome to the Small Business Safari, where I help guide you to avoid those traps, pitfalls, and dangers that lurk when navigating the wild world of small business ownership. I'll share those gold nuggets of information and invite guests to help accelerate your extent to that moment of success. It's a jungle out there, and I want to help you traverse through the levels of owning your own business that can get you bogged down and distract you from hitting your own personal and professional goals. So straight up in Adventure Team and let's take a line through this.

Money Discipline Before The Leap

SPEAKER_00 1:26

You know, eventually I make this thing happen. You know, I've only been doing this for four and a half years with you. We kept talking about it. We talked about it before we got the guest on. We'll get to him in just a minute. Just a minute. I don't think he's a guy who's used to waiting. He is not a guy who's used to waiting. He's used to telling you, you are done waiting, son. It's time to get out there and make that thing happen. But I'm still gonna make him wait. Alan, we've had a great time uh building this podcast, doing what we're doing. Had a great time. If you didn't listen to the last episode, we will not talk about our World Cup hangover that we're still going through. I'm wearing black. It is for that very reasonable. It was so much fun. But there's gonna be more big daddy times because that's what we keep doing. Are we looking for experiences? We're looking to build our businesses. I mean, why are we doing all this stuff? Why did we start our business 18 years ago? And that was to just get absolutely flipping rich. Oops. How'd you do? Well, so I'm here with you, Alan. Uh, and we're building this podcast because what we're trying to do is help you.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Are you saying if you were rich, uh, we wouldn't be friends? Is that what I just heard? No, actually, you would be there, but we'd be doing this from our yard. I'd be saying another another drink, Mr.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Lalomia. That'd be better. Alan, chop chop. Alan, Alan son, we got to move. We have a great thing. One of the things we've talked about is why did I do what I did? And one of the things I said was when I started at 37 to start my own business, was that at 60 years old, I didn't want to know. I wonder if I had it. But one of the things I did know is that I did not want to uh basically take on my entire world and everything I had built until then. And that was all from the banking background that I had being in banking was making sure I took care of my money. So we lived below our means before we started. We did our things that we were supposed to be doing, we did all that stuff that's just not sexy. You know what? I I okay, I bought a Mercedes. Okay, my wife had a PMW. Okay, I live in a golf course community. Uh okay, I had a second house. But forget all that stuff. I lived below my means, people. All right, forget that. I did. I stuck it away so I knew that if I took the chance and things went completely awry, it would do it. But one of the things my dad told me at 24 years old, my first job after I got out of uh my I got my master's in mechanical engineering, and he came out making a whopping $38,000 a year with a master's in mechanical engineering, Alan. Give it up for me. Killing it. My dad says, Well, what do they allow you to max your 401k at? I said, Well, I don't know. He goes, why not? I said, Well, because I need everything I can get, man. I haven't made any money. I've been to grad school making a thousand bucks a month. He goes, find out. I said, I came back and said, Well, they'll match up to three percent. He goes, No, I asked you what you where you're gonna max. I said, Well, they said I can max a 10. He goes, All right, put down 10. I said, Dad, I can't afford that. He goes, Christopher, you cannot not afford that. He goes, You have lived on a thousand dollars a month as a grad student. You can definitely live on $38,000 a year doing what you're doing. I said, But dad, I gotta get all this stuff. Big daddy's arrived. He was not having it. And at 24 years old, the nest egg I started is still sitting sitting there waiting for me. So why do we need our guests now? No, we need our guests because that was that was simple advice. And when you start to grow and start to do your things, you need better and more complicated advice. And that's the second thing you told me is that at a certain point, Chris, you don't have time to do this. You're trying to grow your business, you're trying to make money, you gotta go out there and do that. You don't have time to sit there and manage your money and play with your portfolio and tell everybody how much returns you got. Because let's face it, at the country club, hey man, what'd you do? Oh, I invested in the video. Oh, yeah, I'm toning it. Yeah, how would you put you within that? 10 bucks. Yeah. What'd you put in the other ones? Uh thousand. In what? Uh the company that's out of business now. Nobody ever tells you that shit, right? They all tell you about this, but who's watching this stuff? Who's watching your money for you? You gotta watch this stuff because we're out there making that nest egg. You know what I'm saying? I'm just hanging on. Hang on, we got it today. Jack Ujo's on, and Jack is gonna help us figure this stuff out. Jack, welcome to the show, buddy.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

I'm really looking forward to it. You guys seem to make a lot of fun. And by the way, your father gave you very good advice, too, by the way, Chris.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Sam is the man. Thank God my dad also does not listen to the show. We've had my dad on. Um, so Jack, why did my dad give me good advice?

SPEAKER_03 5:58

Because one of the things you probably didn't realize at the time is the biggest bill you had in your life was your federal income tax. Um, most people know their refund or what they owe, but they have no idea what their freaking tax bill is. And by giving you that advice, you were able to cut the biggest bill you had in your life, which was your taxes, and build up the lump sum of capital that you need to be financially independent. So you're killing two birds with one stone. So that's why it was good advice.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

And thank you. And that's why my daughter will be listening to this show for at least seven minutes because she's taking her first job, and we've already started this whole conversation. And I've actually had to put her grandfather on her. So I'm gonna have Jack listen, uh, make uh Sydney listen to Jack. So that's simple advice. I mean, that's that's just basic blocking and tackling. But you have built a firm around personal wealth management. Why don't you talk a little bit about what you built and why you did it?

From Umpire To Wealth Manager

SPEAKER_03 6:55

Sure. Well, well, I did it when I was in baseball in the minor leagues and got released. I needed to come up with a living. And um, I didn't even know wealth management was a job, to be perfectly frank with you. Um, when I got released, I decided to uh put all my effort into working and continue an education. So in a four-year period, I got my CPA, CFP, master's in tax, securities license, and insurance license, and I put myself out there. And um, I realized that wealth management was a business. I started advising people not only on their taxes, but on their money, and the thing just freaking took off. Um like right now we're at $900 million under management, and that's without acquiring a client all organic from referrals. And and I started my business borrowing on credit cards because I had no money whatsoever. And I sat, I made a plan, I I outlined potential income and expenses, and I figured if I could pick up a couple of clients a month for a couple of years, um, I'd be off to the races. And that's exactly what happened.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Jack's the story we all wanted to be. Jack just said, I put it on credit cards. I was how old were you? Uh at this point, early 30s, early 30s. All right, let's back this truck way up then, because he said something that's really cool, and we're gonna bot the fanboy on him. So you were in the minor leagues playing baseball to your 30s. How fun let's go back to that. So when you were 18 years old, you did not want to do this. You were gonna be Mickey Mann.

SPEAKER_03 8:29

I was gonna be a catcher for the New York Yankees, and um, I looked up Thurman Munson and Jerry Grody. And when I'm part of the minor leagues, I remember having an argument with Jerry Grody and thinking I was begging this guy for his autograph one time. So um, so um yeah, but but I remember looking out at the umpires at a major league game, and I thought that would be a pretty cool job to have someday. Um, I was looking at the second base umpire who was under no pressure, and I thought I thought it would be a cool job. And I officiated my way through college. I umpired in like people caddy at golf courses. I officiated uh my way through college at Seton Hall University. And when I got out, I had an accounting degree, and I figured, you know, when I'm my age now, which is 68, I didn't want to have any regrets. So I decided to try out for baseball, figure, and they wouldn't take me. You go to umpire school and they take, they take about 15 people into the minor leagues out of 350 people. And I'm like, well, they're not gonna take me. And they did, and I ended up doing a life sentence in the minor leagues at eight years. Uh two and A-ball, uh, two and a half in in double A, three and a half in AAA, six winner leagues, uh 1,500 games, twice as many games as Bill Belichick as coaching the NFL. I umpired in the minor league. So I was there for a long time, and then um I got released after three years in AAA, and it was ready, go, start your life over again.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

All right. So talk about that. For uh, that's a really interesting. We'd never had an umpire on before, Alan. And I love this. So, what do you mean you got released?

SPEAKER_03 10:05

So they put a policy in back then there were only 52 major league umpires. Now there's over a hundred with vacations and replay and all that other sort of thing. So it was a very narrow funnel. Um, there a policy was put in that if you had three years in AAA and the major leagues didn't take you, you were let go. And that's what happened with me. There's people that made it to the major leagues that I beat to double A and AAA that got in at a better opportune time than I did. But they didn't, they didn't want people wasting their lives in in the minor leagues. So they're going to make a quick decision, yes or no. And if they said no, they got rid of you and on to the next few people. Um, Larry Vanover comes to mind, Angel Hernandez. Um, I I beat those guys to double A and AAA, and yeah, and um and I know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Yes, so a big baseball fan. I I I really enjoy this sport. I think it's a great sport, especially for young people to learn, because it's the one thing that a young man has to actually think before he does something. Uh and I I loved uh coaching it as a kid and loved playing it as well. Why did you get into umpiring? You said you did it to get through school. I get that part, but um I've heard uh other people's stories. Why did you do it?

SPEAKER_03 11:16

So initially, when I was growing up, I was a catcher, okay? I was an all um conference catcher, and our team won the state championship in our high school. Two players, John Muller and Jim Deloy, were drafted in the professional baseball. They didn't get to the big leagues. My next door neighbor growing up was a guy named Ed Sanickey. And he played for the Philadelphia Phillies, but he umpired as a hobby. And when I was looking to make extra money in college, he goes, Why don't you try umpiring? And I go, I don't want to do that. You get yelled at all the time, people are crazy. And he goes, Well, it's better than working at McDonald's, and you were a catcher, you'd probably be very good at it. And so I took up umpiring. I went to take the test. I remember these high school umpires that I had when I was a catcher were giving me the answers to the tests and everything. And um, and I started, and I and by the time I graduated from Seton Hall, I was umpiring high school state finals. The college assigners were trying to sneak me in on college games. The major league umpire, Bill Kunkel, saw me umpire, and he said, if you were in the major leagues, you'd be one of the best ones. So everybody was encouraging me to try out when I had this accounting degree. And again, I only went to get it out of my system. I go, let me give it a try. And I had a great experience in baseball. I mean, being in baseball was pretty cool. It's a it's a very there's a lot of travel. But when I was a kid, we never traveled, we never went on vacation anywhere. So I was able to see the country. So I I had a very, even though I'm was sorry at the time I didn't get to the big leagues, um, I had a very positive experience. It was a lot of fun, and um, and I grew a lot from it.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

And

Pressure Focus And Fast Resets

SPEAKER_01 12:54

you say uh I saw in your bio that uh a lot of what you learned being an umpire, you you brought to business. Can you talk about that a little bit?

SPEAKER_03 13:02

Sure. Well, you're learning for one thing how to do the right thing in the face of adversity. I mean, I've walked in the winning run with 30,000 people in the stands, okay? Not most financial advisors haven't done that. So just doing the right thing, standing up to people when they're on their on their worst behavior, handling situations, dealing with teamwork, uh, facing ad facing uh setbacks and how to get over it. I mean, you miss a pitch in the fifth inning of a game, you better get over it real fast, or the whole game's gonna be ruined. So things like uh being part of a team, all those things were were things that I learned at baseball.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

You brought something up I was I was waiting to ask. So you've missed a call. You're behind the plate because you guys rotate around. You've missed a call. You knew you missed it, the catcher knew you missed it, the batter knew you missed it, the fans knew you missed it. You have to reset. And you know it's only up to you to reset. How did you do that?

SPEAKER_03 13:59

I had a process, which which I would talk about in business. I had a process for calling bowls. I have an umpire at a game since the mid-2000s. Peak at the bottom of the strike zone, set your eye to get a perspective on the low pitch, which is where a lot of umpires struggle. Set your eyes at the top of the strike zone. You can see the inside and outside corner, and then lock in and wait with slow timing and let the pitches call themselves. That that was a pro again. I haven't called a game, but if I had to go out there on the field tomorrow, I know the process and you go back to your process.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Talk about that again. So you just said it. So you missed that call, and that ball's going back, and you know it's coming back in 15 seconds today's pitch clock, whatever. You have to reset. I talk about this with my sales guys all the time. You got to set the mechanism, right? You got to clear the head trash, you got to get in there. You may not have won the last one, but you got to win this next one. And it's so hard. And that's that's the difference between amateurs and professionals in any sport, in any business, is being able to do that, right?

SPEAKER_03 14:57

You have to be able to move on. You need to get over that last pitch. And you're and you're, you know, as an umpire, one of the you talk to anybody that umpire is a nine-inning game, you're you're mentally exhausted when the game ends because it requires so much concentration. And uh, you know, one thing umpires learned is going from seven innings to nine innings. You know, I I used to say to myself, in when I got to the seventh inning, I'm like, all right, the game starts now. Not that I'm tired and I have three more innings to go. I have to the game starts now in the seventh inning, and we need to finish strong here. And you're constantly talking to yourself the whole game because it requ and I've coached baseball, I've played baseball, I've caught baseball. I I speaking to me about baseball, you can see things from so many perspectives. But being a home plate umpire in a game requires enormous amounts of concentration and focus that people wouldn't even realize. Um, I mean didn't realize until you said it. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

And so every exhaust every pitch, set low, set high, and then check the corners, every pitch.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

Yep, every single pitch. And by the way, the big difference between being a catcher and being an umpire is something nobody thinks about, is that you have no idea what pitch is coming. True. You ever watch a baseball game and see the catcher get crossed up? He's moving his glove all over. Yeah, every pitch in the whole game is like that for the umpire. The whole game is like that. And um, you know, I've said, imagine being a catcher and you don't know what pitch is coming. How would the catcher look like? That's how the umpire feels. And that that's why you got to really lock in and keep your head still. And the guys on TV make it look very easy. And we all and um among umpires privately, you'd say, you know, if I just had a chair and a and a beer in my hand, I I'd never miss a pitch, you know, right? So easy on TV.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

You're right. I I think I think what a mental fortitude you guys have. And that's the uh I think the thing that a lot of people miss in that, um, first of all, as a guy who's I've refed a lot of basketball games when I was a kid, and uh, I played every sport I can get my hands on. Uh, went to college to play football, but I through through college I I I coached, I uh refed basketball. Why did I do it? Well, because I could stay in the game, it was still fun. Did I hear the parents chirping? I did, but you could put it away. But but I think what what you're talking about really sets you up for a business because I use a lot of that because I eliminate that noise. I can I can clear the head trash, I can clear the mac and sometimes though, I can't. What do you do when you can't?

SPEAKER_03 17:31

You have to know when lines are being crossed. And yeah, as as an umpire, you know, I took the position I never threw somebody out of a game, they threw themselves out of a game. And so learning how to deal with people when they're upset, they're upset that the stock market went down, they're upset because they owe money with their tax return. You let people feed feed things out, you hear what they have to say, uh, come back, repeat it back to them, and then come up with a proposed solution that hopefully they could agree upon. Um, if they get out of line from an abuse point of view, you let them go as a client, especially if they're being abusive to people at work in your office. Um, but you have you learn as an umpire that when managers are yelling at you, they're doing it to show their players that they have their back and that they love them. It's not personal. Okay. When the thing that really bothers me in today's in today's game is really at the amateur level where parents and grandparents are abusing uh sports officials to the point of its physical abuse. And uh they're doing it to show their kids that they're loving. But meanwhile, you got a 16-year-old kid calling balls and strikes or refing a basketball game that doesn't know how to handle that.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

You know, and I think when I uh coach my kids in softball and baseball, I I uh I always went up there and talked to the referee and the first thing the ump or whatever it was in any sport. I said, Hey, thank you for doing this. You knew they're making $25. That was it. You know what? They did not come here to get this shit kicked out of them for a T-ball game where they think every kid is gonna be Derek Jeter. By the way, I'm the coach, just making sure the kid didn't peace on third base. I called I called it TT. And by the way, I had one. I was on first base, my coach is over there on third base. I'm like, he's gonna TT. We gotta go. He's picking them up, he's pulling them off. And but by the way, all the parents were like, they thought all their kids, I'm like, they're picking dandelions, man. This is this is this is T ball. They were the worst parents I ever had to work with.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

So the worst. And so you you've got like a training academy or something. You you do something where you give back that way, right?

SPEAKER_03 19:36

I I I taught youth umpires uh in um our town in Brick, New Jersey, for over 20 years, where I taught kids how to umpire because the they couldn't get the parents to do it. And I remember the meeting, I could teach children how to do this, and it would help develop them into being better adults, and um, you'll save a lot of money. And they took me up on my offer, and I did it for over 20 years. We developed kids to be umpires, and um, the problem was whether former coaches would get in their face and things along those lines. But but I taught them conflict resolution. You know, how do you handle when a coach is yelling at you from the dugout? It's like specific situations I would put the kids in for role playing, and I think they learned just as much or more from being an umpire as they did from being a player.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

And so, how does it translate to business? Why did I do off on a tangent? Because before this, I was in the corporate world. I used to call myself Mr. Third Inning. I had a daughter who played softball, I had a son that played baseball, they played basketball, they they worked in tennis, and I would see like maybe half of it. And so I started my business. Why did I start my business? I was trying to make a lot of money. Well, it turned out that I became their coach. I had the flexibility with what I was doing, but let's translate this back to business. So, Jack, you're 30 years old and you're saying, Hey, Chris, I want to manage your money. I'm

Winning Trust With Candor

SPEAKER_00 21:51

like, hey, Jack, how about you grow up like 55 years and then we'll talk to you later? Because who wants to use a young kid? And so you had to use this. So tell us how you built that business in the beginning.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

Sure. Well, you know, Mike Sheshewski, the coach, said, If you if you want to be successful, the first thing you have to do is deserve success. So I put those letters next to my name before I asked anybody for money. CPA, CFP, masters in taxation. So I I had knowledge. I was developing knowledge. And when I started meeting with wealthy people, I realized I was recognizing a lot of issues that your typical stock broker or accountant couldn't recognize. And because I had the baseball background, I was able to speak to people and give them a lot of respect. An umpire is in the business of getting respect, and you only get it by giving respect. So I was able to get on the same page with wealthy people, and they became raving fans for the business and brought me all the new customers that I really needed. So I didn't ask for anybody's business until I felt like Like I had, I had some knowledge. And um, and and I it as I was, you know, part of getting over the release when I was going through school and I started, you know, I passed all four parts of the CPA exam the first time I sat for it, and I was in baseball eight years. Like not many people do that. And I was getting a high every time I was getting uh more knowledge, and I just started recognizing, like you asked the question about the 401k plan. That that is on file after after 30 years, the answer answer to that question. So you start recognizing issues, and when you're dealing with wealthy people, you're gonna make a lot more money because they they have more money to to to invest with you. And um, I think I think they just got very comfortable with me being honest with them, you know. Like I wasn't gonna suck up to them, you know, if they're about to do something stupid. I'm like, that's freaking stupid. You can't be doing shit like that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

So and that is Alan's favorite New Jersey, New York people. He goes, They're go ahead, Alan. What are what are those people? Because I'm from the Midwest.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

No, they're they're just so direct. But what I found about people, uh, you know, and coming from the West Coast, it was sort of off-putting because you know, I I just wasn't used to that kind of candor. But what I found about people from New York and New Jersey is um they're crusty on the outside, but they're gooey in the middle. And once you crack through that exterior, then if you're good with them, you're good with all their friends, and they're just the warmest people I've ever met. But they're genuine, they're authentic, you know exactly where you stand.

SPEAKER_03 24:26

And people want people want you to be authentic when when they're managing their money. I mean, you got to be honest with people. I mean, I I considered it part of my job to prevent people from hurting themselves. Because I'd say to them, if you if you undertake this cause cause of act uh course of action, you're gonna end up blaming me down the down the road for not trying to get you to stop it. That's why I'm getting in your face right now. And um, and and I think people, you know, I was trying to get their respect, right? Not not necessarily get them to like me, but they had to like me, but also respect me. And um, and I and again, I've had clients for, I mean, 35 years now. I mean, or over 30 to 35 years that have been with me for a long time. And now they're adult children, you know, so it's it's been a pretty cool ride, you know, especially seeing that they've been able to retire. Their kids have no student loan debt, their mortgages are paid off, things along those lines. That's that's what we're looking for.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Right. We talk about that. That's I mean, that's hallelujah. That's the end. I mean, when you talk about this, uh, when you start a business, when I did it at 37, it was all about me going out there trying to start something. We'll we'll see what happens when I'm 60, you know. So I haven't got there yet. Uh God willing, I'll make it. We'll see how this goes. But Jack, you also you started that. You said you you talked about being authentic. You started out beginning, you had to know it, you had to train it, you had to have lean on your uh strengths. You've grown a business now. Now you have people managing the money for you. Talk about how you scaled and some of the strengths or some of the struggles you went through.

SPEAKER_03 26:00

Well, at the beginning, I made the mistake that I think most small business owners make, and that's trying to do too much of the work yourself. I was

Scaling Through Hiring And Culture

SPEAKER_03 26:07

that accountant there on Saturdays and Sundays, and I read a book that I'd recommend, besides my own book, called The Emith by Michael Gerber, why small businesses fail. And I right and I learned to work on my business rather than in my business. The same mistake the McDonald's brothers made back when they thought they were the only ones capable of making freaking hamburgers. So I remember I hired two people, uh, Anna Michael to be uh a CPA and Loretta Sohan, who I called our director of first impressions, and I took a big cut back in my own pay. It was a huge risk hiring an accountant and and uh a person at the front desk. And I realized very quickly that that was a very, very smart move because Anna was able to do all these tax returns. I was able to go out and try and generate more business. Loretta got on the phone, uh, Colin, you know, senior citizens and and working on marketing plans, and we just took off. And and both of those women worked with me for 30 years, ended up working their whole careers with me. They retired before I did. And um, and and so hiring the right people that were different than you, that like to do things that you didn't like to do was probably the best decision I made right at right at the Gidea.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Why do you think, and uh put your uh put the whole thing aside, why do you think they stay with you for 30 years?

SPEAKER_03 27:29

Because I learned in baseball how not to treat people. Uh when you're a mockery, how not to treat people, how not to treat people. My my last year in baseball, I am part 144 game season, spring training, playoffs, finals. There are eight teams in our league, two of the teams drew over a million fans, Buffalo and Louisville. My W-2 is $8,500.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

That's it.

SPEAKER_03 27:52

Do all the inflation adjustments you want. That's the money I made. We went for a mortgage, the mortgage broker said to my wife, my wife, Eileen, I just need the rest of Jack's income. You know, and he was like, Yeah. So so I learned treat people well and they'll take care of my clients and employees. And that I learned in baseball too.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

It's so, and I'm not going to be able to articulate this well, so it's just terrible for podcasting. But I'm I'm sensing a pattern with Jack that I just think is so fascinating. It's just slightly, it's just slightly aside. Like he set the parameters for the pitch and let the pitch come in. He let the people who were being asses get themselves kicked out, and then he learned how to not treat people. I mean, it's yeah, you see that pattern? I do.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

It's really interesting. I actually you did not articulate it well. But thank you to the small business safari because that I can't do it any better. Honestly, I'm right with Alan. There's something intangible about Jack. Um, it's authentic. I think that's the word I'm thinking about.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

But he sees the world slightly differently, and he allows it to happen and he just manages it or something. Because I don't get it.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

I Alan, would you call balls and strikes and you're 30 years old for $8,500 a year?

SPEAKER_01 29:06

No, it's a fucking way. And we said no way. Nobody wants to be a referee in any sport right now because people are just so awful.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

They are so awful now. I but I think you know, that's why I was waiting to hear it. I thought you wanted to stay in the game more, but I I did. I mean, the reason why, Chris, why did you uh ref basketball games? I'm like, well, you know, I I just love giving back to kids. I love kids, and it was in the offseason because I played football and I could do it in the winter, and it was a uh, but yeah, the parents were chirping in your ear, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. My dad was a referee in basketball, so that's why I did it. And you're like, Man, I played basketball the whole thing. You're like, but yeah, you look back on it, you're like, no, why did I do that? I could have gone back in the machine shop and made parts, and nobody would have been yelling at me because that's what I did as a kid growing up.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

You don't have parents yelling at you when you had parts.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Nobody's yelling at me about making parts.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

But these guys are all like, little Jodie's the best ever. I can't believe you called a foul on him. I'm like, oh, are you kidding me? No, when you when you talk about Anna and and Lorraine, and again, there's 15 people now, but but you know, I never use the phrase they worked for me. I've never said that before in my life. They worked with me. And um, and I always said, I'm the conduit for paying you. The clients pay us, I pay you. Um, they developed they developed back in the day our our benefits policies, paid time off policies. I'm probably one of the few employers out there that pays 100% health insurance for our employees. They pay nothing. So I, you know, uh uh uh at least 4% goes into their pension plan, and then a discretionary contribution is made on top of that. So I really believe in taking care of your employees because they will they will take care of your clients. You know, you just got to have the right people in there, and they won't leave you. You know, they won't leave.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

All right, so let's talk about you started this business. Let's talk about a struggle you had. You started out, you got into it.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

I don't think Jack has ever struggled.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

I don't think so. Uh we got he, you know what? Honestly, he he has a little uh he has I mean he's authentic.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

I think we need to read his book and come back.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

We'll come back. I still think though, he had a little tweak about getting released. I'm still pissed about that. In fact, I'm pissed for him. Don't worry, Jack. I have way more rage than you ever possibly could have for all of us. This Italian guy has a lot of it. Don't worry about it. I can so let's talk about the business. Let's talk about a time where you're like, oh my god, it's not going I thought. I mean, you went through a couple of uh you've been through a couple cycles. So I think he did. It's gonna be dead. It's gonna be dead air. All right, all right. It's not we can't struggle because Chris has fucking struggled, bro. 18 years dude, this guy struggled, but maybe maybe there's for other reasons.

SPEAKER_03 31:42

Again, I think the whole business, quite frank, after being in baseball, I think the whole business has been an easy business. Uh, it's been a piece of cake

Worst Case Planning For Crashes

SPEAKER_03 31:49

compared to being in baseball. I really do. And and I also think going through the 50% decline that took place between 2000 and 2002, the 40% decline that took place in 2008, I spun those things to my advantage. Um, there's a book that Bobby Knight wrote called The Power of Negative Thinking, believe it or not. And and he talked about how games are lost and not won. And so, because of my release in baseball, and because uh I buy into that philosophy that most in baseball, by the way, if you take the worst inning a team had, there's a chance they might have won that game. Most baseball games are lost because of one bad inning. But I created worst-case scenarios for our clients when planning for their futures. I most advisors are out there projecting 7 to 12% returns. When I do a financial plan for a client, I show them what would happen if the depression came back in based on the advice I just gave them. What happened if the stock market does nothing over the next 10 years? How does your life look? So I would go over worst-case scenarios with clients. And when that stuff happened, we were prepared for it. And after 2000, my business grew by 400% within five years after the 2008 crash, because nobody left, and that's when money moves. Like as an advisor, like I embrace down markets because that's when money moves. Money's not moving right now. Everybody's freaking happy because their their money's going up. You get measured as an advisor on what happens when the bleep hits the fan, okay, when there's down markets, which a 20% down market occurs once every four or five years. People, you know, that that's like having a when the stocks go down and clients complain. I say to them, that's like when you have a baby. If you said to the OBGYN, gee, this freaking kid's crying at two o'clock in the morning. I I don't understand why. But stocks go down and and and they can go down very violently, and that's all part of the game. And you have to set yourself up so that you know how to deal with those situations.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

I think maybe that's the title of the podcast. When you birth a baby and you look at the OBGYN and go, Why is this baby crying at two o'clock in the morning after I started my business? I think Jack is our new sensei. He is, he is.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

So talk about your book.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

So so I wrote the book, Too Smart to Be an Umpire, because um I was bored in the the last two years of my business.

Process Legacy And Next Chapter

SPEAKER_03 34:10

I I just sold it to two of our employees. It's a New Jersey right there.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

I was bored.

SPEAKER_03 34:14

I I was bored, so I decided to write this book. And and I know how all these viral arguments are on TV, you know, and and I'm like, well, I have eight years of that. I could put that into a book. And in in the business world, I have a lot of respect because I I was the number one ranked advisor in our firm that's using math uh for over a decade. And a lot of people in business have no idea about my baseball background and what I learned from that and brought into business. So I thought the book could be interesting. It became an Amazon best seller in its category. It's got a lot of reviews. So uh it's it's an easy read. And people that love baseball will really get a kick out of it. But but I wrote the book to tell this story of how to start a business from nothing, how to grow it, how to get out of it, and and what I think people want when they buy a goods or service. They want to have an overwhelmingly positive experience. And as a business owner, um, I never focused on trying to be the number one advisor. All I did was focus on process, process for uh the first meeting with a client. What happens when that client walks into the office? Delivering a plan, ongoing client communication, onboarding, the whole thing, written processes. And and um if you talk to uh, you know, say Nick Saban, Nick Sabin said we won because we have processes that work. A golfer is a great pre-shot routine. Okay, I'm a lousy golfer because I don't have a good, you know, I don't have a process that works. Okay. Finally, Jack sucks at something. Thank God.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

Thank God. Jack, come play with me in Kia Island because I just got done ringing the bell twice.

SPEAKER_03 35:53

I broke 80 today. I did have a good day. Oh, see, oh, it's terrible when you break. But but um, but but anyway, having a process is that all these things result in wins. That's what business owners need to realize.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

You know, where'd the title come from?

SPEAKER_03 36:09

Title came from the book, it was always called Plan B, and then the publisher said that's too boring of a title. And there was a story I tell in the book where it was my last year in AAA, and I was at the old you're familiar with the College World Series, Omaha, Nebraska. Yeah, 100%. I'm at the old uh Rosenblatt Stadium in Triple A. And Dick Butler was a supervisor of umpires for the American League and came to our game, and I was the home plate umpire. And he surprised us, we didn't know he was coming. So he took us out to dinner after the game, and I said, You know, Mr. Butler, I've been in the minor leagues eight years now. I'd like to get an evaluation, find out where I stand with you guys. I have to make life decisions here. He goes, Well, Jack, he goes, I think you call a really good game. He goes, I only disagreed with one pitch during a whole game. To be perfectly honest with you, I think you're too smart to be an umpire. That came from Major League Baseball. And and what do you mean by that? What do you mean by that? That's a that's a defect, and um, you know, so that that's where the title of the book comes from. Just uh what an American league supervisor told me. You're too smart to be an umpire, and it's basic, it's kind of implied through the rest of the book. I certainly don't think I was too smart to be an umpire. I have too much respect for umpires to to say something like that. Right it came from Major League Baseball.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Right. So you look back on your career. I mean, at this point where you are, uh, and you're doing this junket, right? You're uh you're on the podcast, you're doing this, pushing the book. You look back on your business. What are you most proud of right now with the business and where it's at?

SPEAKER_03 37:41

Oh, you're gonna make me cry. Um good. That uh that's the GUI inside it's just tremendous gratitude for what's taken place from the clients, the employees, you know, gratitude. Tremendous freaking gratitude.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Talk about the guys who are taking over and doing what you're doing or used to do and uh doing the way you did. How did you translate that to that?

SPEAKER_03 38:03

Um Jason Gordon played little league baseball for me, and he was 15 years old. He came to me and said, Jack, I want to see you in your office. And I go, about what? He goes, I want to talk to you in your office. And he goes, If if I want to be doing what you do someday, what do I got to do? And so I gave I gave him I hope he doesn't see this part. So anyway, he should. I I I gave him a job as an intern, put up the Christmas lights, you know, barely making minimum wage, and um I trained him. And um he played college baseball, and I I laid out the laid laid out a plan for him, and he connected the freaking dots.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

And um no, he needs to watch this check. I would tell you, um, you're choking me up because I think you know, we talk about the legacy we leave. You know, you wrote a book, I wrote a book. Um, but it's those people we touch and the those kids who they you see them light up and you see them do more than you thought ever possible. Right. And it's just so cool. And uh when you're starting a business, that's not what you were thinking. Hell, you were 30 years old, and you're like, you just got kicked out of baseball, and you were pissed. I mean, if you weren't pissed, I was pissed for you. Don't worry about it. I can do that for you.

SPEAKER_03 39:15

Oh, I was pissed.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Hell yeah. Let's go. And uh, you know what? I'm gonna go out and prove those guys that I can I can be the best, this, whatever it is. And I started my business, and here you are. And look what you just did. And I think that's the thing that a lot of people don't get. It's hard to do it in the beginning. You know, was that your why then you have to do the Simon Cynic thing? No. Um, is it now? Yeah. I mean, to get choked up on a podcast talking about a guy that you touched, and look at his life and what he's doing. You're not responsible for just 15 people, you're responsible for 15 families. Right. 15 families. And that's so important. If that's never on your back, that's been always on my back. I have 37 families right now that I'm trying to, it's on my back. And I don't think about think about that every day.

SPEAKER_03 40:03

That's what I don't think a lot of people that don't own a business understand. You feel responsible for those families, all of them. And um that they're depending on you. They're depending on you. And the second person, Anthony Sandomersky, proactively came to me as well. And I trained these guys, Jason for 20 years, Anthony for about 10. And I just knew they were ready. I just knew they were ready. And uh, they're both like um 37 years of age right now, approximately, and they've been running the business and um they're just killing it. They're they're just doing an awesome job. I don't think the clients miss me anymore. But but um they still call it Ojo Wells Strategies. I'm happy with that that they kept the name, but um, I'm just so proud of them. I'm just so proud of them.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

What did you look for when you were bringing people onto this team? Good question. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 40:51

I can tell in my business that people ask questions. I want to see, I want to see enthusiasm, that they don't have a job, that they have a career. And I I can tell pretty early on. I and I said, I want you to be curious. I go, we're a small business here, everything's up for grabs. We're you're trying to get to this place you never quite get to. You know, the old Vince Lombardi line in trying to achieve perfection, we we achieve excellence. So I said, be curious, ask questions. Why is that? Why is that? And I go, if you want to get really good, try to look up the answer on your own before you come to me with the question, and and you'll learn something as you're looking something up. But I I look for team players and um and people that quite that question me, that that that that question why we do things. And and Anthony and Jason question things, and that that's why they own the business right now. You know, I have a suggestion. Why don't we try this? Well, that won't work because of this, but you know, but but a lot of the suggestions that they came up with, we implemented and it made us all better, made everybody better.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

The minute somebody is a yes man or yes woman, they're gone. I hate that. I mean, and he just gave the umpire thumbs out. He's out of here. I love that. Because I and the same thing. I mean, guys, I'm not the smartest guy in the room, right? You got to help me. And if you don't question me, I'll tell you when I think you're wrong. But don't be afraid to ask me.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Most people in leadership positions or management, they can't handle that though. Oh god. I in fact, if you yes, that goes back to the umpire training. I mean, he's used to being questioned all the time. Every question I was being questioned. So he just gave the thumbs out, you're out of here.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

I love it.

SPEAKER_03 42:28

If you hired a business consultant to look at your business, the the first thing that they're gonna do is they're gonna come in and they're gonna interview all the employees. And if you don't have good communication with them, those employees are gonna tell the consultant, I'll tell you what's wrong with this freaking place. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. And if you have that line of communication with them, you can solve a lot of problems before they even start.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Yeah. So, Jack, you're looking, uh, you're right here on the junk. We're talking about the uh book a little bit. What are you looking for for the next 10 years? Because I know you got 10 more and you're not retiring. Don't give me that bullshit.

SPEAKER_03 43:00

Yeah, yeah. I'm I'm keeping that uh I'm doing the advice I gave to my clients that retire. Take a year and try to figure things out. Don't rush into anything too soon. Uh, right now I'm working with somebody that thinks I can do speaking engagements. So I'm I'm looking at that. Um, I'm doing all these podcasts, I'm playing pickleball and golf, and I have three children, and each of my three children have had a child within the past 10 months. So I've gone from Oh, see your grandpa. Right. So I've gone from three grandchildren. Um well, one works for the U.S. government, China, but she's coming back. Uh, she's the Department of Energy's attache at the U.S. Embassy in China. She's coming back next year, so I'll get to see Benjamin. And then um, my granddaughter Colette is in Redondo Beach, California. I'm seeing her next weekend. She turns one. My son's a captain for Alaska Airlines. And then the little one is close. When I'm done with this podcast, I'm gonna see my grandson Dominic, who's uh about 10 minutes away from here. So they'll come out and see how. You didn't see him on his bio.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

His son, his son is the pilot. Uh was it like at 21? He was flying the commercial.

SPEAKER_03 44:08

Yeah, they offered American Airlines offered him a job at 20, and um he had to wait till he was 21. Now you got to be 23. He went in, they he's six foot six, a horrible basketball player, by the way. He was just a horrible basketball player. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

You know what? Spoken like a true father, right? Thank you, Jack. And uh my daughter will never make it to this part. Um, but I I love this about you because you we give our kids the right do, but not all the due, right? You know what I'm saying? Uh because your dad, you know that. All right, keep going.

SPEAKER_03 44:39

But but American Airlines hired him, um, and they they said we need 10 years worth of work history. And he goes, I was 11. I was I was 11. I was 11 years old when he went in. But uh, but he had to he actually dropped out of Emory Riddle to take his first job. So now he's a yeah, he always wanted to be a pilot. He was playing those stupid video games, and then you know, he's asking my wife and I for to go to get pilot lessons when he's 17. And I'm like, we're in a parent handbook, you know. Most people are dealing with their kids driving a car. And dad, can I take my uh girlfriend down to Atlantic City and rent it, rent a plane? You know, I'm like, I don't know what to freaking say. So, but but he's doing great, you know.

SPEAKER_01 45:18

Well, I'm gonna throw a vote in for your friend that wants you to get on the speaking tour because I think you'll kill it.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

I think you'll kill it too, dude. I'll tell you what, if you want to come down to Atlanta, we'll support you. We will make this happen if you want to come down here. So, Jack, let's stay in touch, make this thing happen. Guys, you just got a free 45 minutes from an umpire and a guy who built a business and a

Wrap And Where To Find Jack

SPEAKER_00 45:40

guy who figured out how to pass his business on so he can get out of it. Think about that whole life cycle. You just got a whole shitload of information off of somebody you wouldn't have got. I didn't get it. That Alan didn't get it. That's why we started this podcast four and a half years ago. Small business safari. Tell your friends, tell your family, if you liked it, you let them know. If you don't, screw you. We gotta keep going. We're out of here because we got the ump, Jack Ujo. Go figure it out. Check him out. He's got a podcast. I mean, he's got a book, he's got the website, you can go figure him out. Jack Ujo, go see the thing, because I can't. It's O-U-J-O.com. Thank you. Too smart to be an umpire. He is too smart to be an umpire. Let's go figure it out. Guys, great episode. Keep hustling, keep making it happen. If you're in your truck, if you're walking around today, make it a great day. Make something happen. You know what? Today may suck, but tomorrow will be better. If today's great, tomorrow may not be so great. Keep it even, keep it going. Let's get up that mountain and let's make it happen. We gotta get out of here. We've got to go. Cheers, everybody. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Small Business Department. Remember, too, we'll help you achieve that higher altitude you're looking forward to.