Episode 1 - The Pressure We Don't Talk About

Welcome to Connection In Progress.

Real conversations that go beyond Sundays.

Our first series, The Silent Battle Within, explores mental health, pressure, identity, faith, and the struggles people silently carry every day.

Because life doesn’t pause when service ends… and neither do the pressures people carry.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hello everyone. I wanted to come on here and just share a very special announcement and the vision behind it. We're officially releasing our very first episode of our new podcast, and I'm really excited to introduce to you guys Connection and Progress. This podcast was created with very one simple vision. It's to connect with people beyond just what happens on Sundays because church isn't something that we just experience for one hour and then disconnect from the rest of life. You know, real life happens Monday through Saturday, and everything that we face during that time, it's important. All the questions, faith, struggles, all of that matters. And honestly, we don't just want to connect with church people, we want to connect with everyone. So whether you've been in church your whole life or you attend Del Soul or you don't, whether you walked away from faith or just wanting to hear some real conversations that actually matter, then this space is for you. And that's exactly why we called it connection in progress. Because none of us have it fully figured out. We're either growing or learning or we're somewhere in between in that process. We're launching our first series called The Silent Battle Within. We're having honest and biblically grounded conversations about mental health, identity, pressures, expectations, and the struggles that people silently carry every single day. And our hope with this is very simple. It's just to create conversations that help people grow and better understand each other. Because at the end of the day, that's what matters. So whether you're watching from wherever you're watching from, we're glad that you're here and welcome to Connection in Progress. And like we say, this podcast is all about having real conversations that go beyond what happens on Sundays because life doesn't pause when service ends, and neither do the pressures that people vary. Thank you guys and hope to see you soon. This podcast is all about having real conversations that go beyond what happens on Sundays. Because life doesn't pause when service ends, and neither do the pressures that people feel or face every single day. Today, we're actually starting our very first series called The Silent Battle Within, where we're talking about mental health. Because a lot of people are fighting battles internally that nobody always sees. Today's episode is actually called The Pressure We Don't Talk About. And honestly, I think pressure is the one thing that a lot of us always feel. Whether if it's the pressure to do it all, to maintain it all, the pressure to always be strong, the pressure to have faith but never struggle, or just the pressure just to try to keep on going and the capacity that you're running at. But one of the biggest things we want people to understand through this conversation is that mental health struggles do not automatically mean a lack of faith. And I'm actually super, super excited for today because I'm actually joined by the executive directors of Living Hope, Mr. Robert and Kia Hart. Ooh, they're directors, counselors that work directly with people that have gone through it all. I mean, burnout, trauma, depression, anxiety. And I'm super excited to hear and get their perspective from today's conversation. So I wanted to ask you guys, would you guys like to introduce yourself a little bit and tell us a little bit how you guys got to where you are today?

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Sure. Well, I will start just because I want to clarify he's the executive director and I'm one of the therapists. Oh I'm most important therapist. I have a different position than he does. Um introduce ourselves. Okay. So Kia Hart, like the car, K-I-A. That's what I always say. Helps people remember it. Unique name. Um well we've been is this do you want us to tell a little of our story right now or just a basic introduction?

SPEAKER_02 4:02

Oh, um, a basic introduction and a little bit of your story.

SPEAKER_03 4:05

All right. Well, uh, we are this summer gonna be celebrating our 34th wedding anniversary. We have three kids. We have one that is 28, one that is 27, and one that is 16. So we're still in the throes of parenting with our 16-year-old. And, you know, sort of still with our adult kids. We love to be involved. Uh, we love working together. I love it that his office is right across from mine, so we can like pop in and give a little kiss or something in the middle of the day, and that's fun. Uh we both got into doing this kind of therapy, actually, because we went to therapy and it helped us so much. So it's kind of a realized dream in some ways from way back. Go for it. What else do you want to say?

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Anything else you want to add to that?

SPEAKER_03 5:03

No.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Okay. Um, I'm Robert Hart, uh husband to Kia, like the car, um Hart, and dad to three kids, like she said. Uh I am the director over at Living Hope Counseling Services. Uh we're, as far as I'm aware, still here in 2026, the only Christian counseling center in town. Um that's not to say that there aren't other Christian counselors in town, but we're the only agency uh that collectively uh houses a significant portion of the Christian counselors here in town. Um and as my wife said, uh we've been in this uh journey together uh maritally for 34 years this August, um, but in the counseling journey for about 25 years now. Um and so this for us, that journey started back in gosh, 1994. Um and if if it's interesting or if you want to know, I can tell you some more of the specifics about that. But suffice it to say, uh we met and got married in Austin, Texas. Uh, and then through God's providential leading, uh, we're here now in El Paso, and we love it. We love the community, we love what God is doing in, around, and through us, and we're just excited to be a part of the body of Christ, serving and with the gifts he's given us.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Amazing. Thank you so much. That's an amazing story, and um how that's crazy. I I didn't actually know that that you guys were the only Christian agency here. So um that's very interesting. I I knew of like counselors and stuff, but um, I mean, you guys are really um focusing on that. And I kind of want to ask you just a quick little follow-up before we jump into things. Um, when did you know like that is what you wanted to establish? Like whether if it was together or like when was it when you guys were like, okay, this is a necessity and this this is needed to especially here in El Paso or you know, wherever it may have been?

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Sure. Well, that's where we go back all the way to 1994. Um at that point, we were both uh fairly newly married. We got married in 1992. Um, but then in 1994, uh we were both working in Austin. Um, I was kind of burnt out on school. I had at that point I had a bachelor's degree in psychology. Uh my wife was uh working in the rehab field, uh teaching blind and visually impaired folks how to orient their environments, how to use cane and mobility skills. Um then one night uh I just had this very uh profound encounter with the Lord. Um and so and it was at that point, it was so compelling. I was like, okay, uh I was prepared to drop everything and just set forth on this journey that we're on now. Um and of course, you know, when when God speaks to you, uh certainly uh you want to respond to that, but also uh as a married person, right, uh my my decisions and my experiences impact other people, right? They impact my wife, and if you have kids or a spouse, um, it impacts them as well. So uh jointly we agreed and made the decision, okay, let's quit the path that we're on and uh go back, get the training necessary. And it really was the vision to do exactly what we're doing at Living Hope today.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

That's amazing. Beautiful story, beautiful story. Um, well, let's jump right into it. Before we do anything, I would like us, I would just like to pray for us really quick, um, and then we can get into the nitty-gritty of mental health and actually talk about it. So let me pray for us real quick. Heavenly Father, Lord, Abba, Father, Lord, thank you for this amazing and beautiful day, Lord. Thank you that you brought us here together, Lord, just to be able to talk about not just your word, Lord, but you know, the pressures that people are facing and how you led this amazing couple, Lord, to do your work, Lord, and what they've been able to establish, Lord. It's it's impacting and shining the light on you, you know, here in El Paso, Lord. And I just want to bless our conversation, Lord. I pray that the Spirit enters us, fills us, Lord, and we'll be able to talk about what you want us to talk about, Lord, and point everything back to you, Lord. And I just pray for whatever open the hearts and ears of whoever may be tuning in, whether if it's, you know, you know, you're just struggling with this first hand, or if it's just to learn about it or just to listen, whatever it may be, Lord, I pray that, you know, whoever may be listening and they they take away, you know, that at the end of the day at all points is you and that struggles are okay, Lord. So thank you that for bringing us together, Lord, and for this amazing and beautiful day and all this. I pray in Jesus' name.

unknown 10:09

Amen.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

All right. So why is mental health so hard to talk about? You know, I think even hearing the words mental health in certain spaces may be either be uncomfortable or just completely hush hush, even in culture spaces and even in Christian spaces. And so I want to ask you guys, why do you think mental health is still hard to talk about today, especially in church spaces?

SPEAKER_00 10:36

You want to start?

SPEAKER_03 10:37

You want me to sure I can start. So I'll start since you said especially in church spaces spaces. Um, I I came up with a little exercise that takes like 20 seconds to help us understand that. Yeah. So I'd like everybody just for the moment to kind of picture um a Christian that you deeply admire. It could be anybody, it could be a pastor, a teacher, a Sunday school teacher, a friend, a mentor, anybody at all. Somebody that you deeply admire, partly because of their Christian walk or who they are as a believer. And just hold them in your mind, visualize them, and visualize them walking into a room. And while you're holding that person in your mind, I want you to ask yourself Did I imagine them struggling to get out of bed due to depression that morning? Did I imagine them having a panic attack in the car before they entered the building? Did I imagine them in a therapist's office processing burnout or emotional exhaustion? I'm guessing most of you probably did not. Maybe some of you did if you knew this person really, really well. Because most of us have this unconscious rule for ourselves where we think in church that spiritual maturity means we're immune to significant health mental health struggles. And so I think that that is one of the main reasons that it's hard in church to talk about mental health struggle struggles because we feel guilty, like, well, if I was more spiritually mature, I wouldn't feel depressed. Um, or we we worry that other people will judge us. Um, or maybe they'll think we're not spiritually mature and we won't be allowed to volunteer, or whatever part role we play in church. And so I think that makes it really hard for people to speak up because they connect it with something that's not necessarily connected. Did I make that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 12:57

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 12:59

Do you want to add to that? Speak to other things?

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Well, um, that's a great illustration. I like that. Of course, I did anticipate because we had talked about it prior to here, so I had an unfair advantage, right? But um, you know, I think a big reason why just hearing mental health issues or uh topics come up, um, it's almost a taboo sometimes in many uh churches, uh, probably within the last two months. Um I'm I I say two months because it could have been within the last month, but I've heard from the pulpit uh a pastor say just very matter-of-factly, um, fear is sin. There it is. So um, well, if I'm hearing that message and I'm feeling anxious or fearful about something, do you think I'm more prone to share that or talk about it? Or am I gonna walk away going, oh, what's wrong with me? I should pray more, read my Bible more, you know, do some of the standard things, and then suddenly I won't feel these feelings anymore. And that's not necessarily the case. So I think that's a big part of the reason why even just bringing up mental health topics and or emotions in a spiritual context can get confusing and or uh almost frowned upon. And then it's again, people are just not likely to do it because especially if they're fearful that you're gonna be thinking I'm sinning if I just share with you the struggle that I'm having. So I think that's a big part of it.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Absolutely. I I think you guys were already kind of mentioning that there's you know a fear, there's a shame with a fear of volunteer, you know, there's that pressure of you know, maybe not making, not sharing or exposing that vulnerability. And so I want to follow up and ask, why do you why do you why do you think people feel pressure to hide what they're feeling? Is it like um uh when it comes to church spaces, is it like something that is being shamed upon from church spaces, like whether if it's like church leaders, maybe unconsciously, I mean I'm sorry, subconsciously, um, or is it a culture thing? Um why do you think there's such a shame in hiding this feeling?

SPEAKER_03 15:30

Well, I do think in some ways leadership trickles down. Um as I was thinking about this, there there's a in 2022 there was research done by LifeWay, um, and it found that sixty-three percent of pastors say that stress is a constant mental health challenge for them. Sixty-three percent. It's a lot, but you don't I don't generally hear leaders sharing that, asking for prayer about that. Um role modeling. Hey, I struggle with this too. And so I think it's really hard when you sense that your leaders don't struggle with it to show up with it. And there's definitely cultural factors um in that sometimes there's a sense of things should stay in the family, or the elders help the young ones, we don't go outside the family with these things, um, or just being viewed as a weakness or a failure of the family. Like if if if if you're not doing well and you share that, it reflects poorly on me. Sometimes that's the family culture that can make it hard to want to share as well.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Absolutely. And if we go back to that idea of viewing either depression or uh anxiety as a sin, um what's I mean, we see it right at the beginning of the story, don't we? What's our response to something that we believe is sin? Is it not to hide? Right, right? Right away. We see it right from the very beginning. Um the challenge begins to be, well, what if it's not a sin issue, right? What if it's something else? Um I still think the hiding part comes into play there because it does. It it taps into some very big shame messages that we have, right? Um the shame message, I view it like a coin. Um, there's two main messages of shame. Um, one of them is I'm not enough, right? I I'm not good enough, I'm not pure enough, righteous enough, holy enough before the Lord or others. Um, so therefore, right? I can't be loved, I can't be accepted, I can't be uh valued. Now the other side of that coin is I'm too much, right? Oh my gosh, my feelings are too big, or my desires are too much, and other people can't handle me, um, or my problems are too big, and therefore I should minimize them or suppress them. Um, both of those shame messages interfere with our ability to connect with other people. Um, because in response to that, we often tend to hide.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

So um, you know, with personal experience um included, but also from different people that I've talked to or administered, whether if it's through small groups or discipleship, you know, one thing that I notice, you know, on the topic of sin is that not only do people tend to hide their sin, but you know, they also maybe pretend to think that, you know, they try to hide it away that they struggle with it, or they just try to ignore it. And, you know, instead of you know actually trying to face the sin head on and you know, really evaluating and talking with the Lord about, you know, where is it coming from and why you're struggling with this. And so um, as a follow-up, not directly saying that it's a sin, of course, but as a follow-up, I I want to ask, you know, what damage does can that cause when you hide you know your struggles with mental health, whatever aspect it may be, um, and when people feel like they can't talk.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Sure. Well, and I'll start off on this one if you don't mind. Like this goes to the core of our beliefs at Living Hope. And as uh Christian counselors for Kia and I, we believe that when people come in to see us, that really they have two problems. Um and as believers, one of those problems is pretty obvious. It is the sin issue, right? Because we do all have sin. We're born with sin nature and it impacts us all differently. Um but we've also discovered in our journey that right there, hidden in plain sight in Scripture, at the beginning of this of our story as humans, before sin enters the picture, there's a problem. Right? Genesis chapter three is where sin gets introduced, but in Genesis chapter two, this interesting thing happens, right? Perfect environment, walking and talking with the Lord Almighty. In that setting, there's no sin. And yet the Creator speaks up and says, hmm, this is not good. Now, I don't know about you. When this truth was kind of exposed or revealed to me, I really had a dilemma because my whole worldview was shaped around the idea that if something wasn't good, it's because somehow sin had tainted it or infected it. But there's no sin in this equation, right? This is Genesis chapter 2. Face to face with Jesus, right? And it is the Lord who says it's not good because he was alone. That is such a driving factor. So when you talk about our challenges in life, so often we, you know, and I I'm not saying this as a shaming statement, I'm just saying it as a matter of course. I know that when people walk through my door, of course they're struggling with sin, but what can I do about their sin problem? Right? Nothing. I I could point him to Jesus, but I can't do anything about their sin problem. But if I recognize that they've got this other problem that they're probably walking around in isolation with their thoughts, their emotions, with their challenges, what can I? Do about that? Well, I can do a lot about that, right? I can, like Job's friends, I can sit in the dirt with them and remove their aloneness. So that's what I think is the main thing, why it's such a challenge and what the consequences are of not living in community, not addressing things heads up head on, it's that it leads to the sense of we're alone, and that kind of feeds the shame cycle, it feeds the sin cycle, it feeds all of it. So isolation.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

And a lot of times we think it's some rocket science or some you know amazing word, you know, but sometimes it's it's really that simple. And uh I think that's a perfect, you know, kind of pivot, um, you know, talking about what people are experiencing and talking about the isol isolation. And I really want to talk about pressure. So that pressure doesn't always look the same, right? Across the board. You know, we may all isolate ourselves, of course. Um but you know, I do think there's some commonalities, like you said, isolation. But what are some other common pressures um that you see both in men and women that you know either it's an effect of mental health or um you know that are that people are struggling with together or however that may be.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Maybe that contribute to mental health issues. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:28

Sure. As I thought of this, three main categories came to mind. The pressure to perform. I think that's common among all humans. And often what's really difficult about that is in different seasons of life, it's a moving target. You know, now I need to perform this way, now I need to perform that way. It changes throughout life, and it's um often there's even once we've reached one level of where we feel like we've performed well, we feel the pressure to go to the next level and the next level. And sometimes that feels never-ending, and that can be exhausting. Absolutely. Also the pressure of comparison. Um, I know most people are on social media at this point, and that's often just presenting a false perfect moment uh in people's lives, and if we're comparing to that, we can constantly feel like we're falling behind and not doing well. Um, and then I I put this one just because at some point everybody is single. Some people say stay single their whole lives, some people are single and then they get married and then they become single again as they're older. And for the younger ones, a lot of times I think they feel the pressure to marry. I think sometimes even in the church, there is this messaging that says, you'll do better if you're married. And so, or they might even feel it from their families. I hear that all the time. I'm asked, when are you going to get married? When you get married. So I think most single people can relate to that pressure, which can be really discouraging sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Well, and just to tie all of those together and the whole mental health component is pressure in and of itself is not a bad thing. Let me just acknowledge that, right? The the way that the Lord has created the universe, we see these principles throughout all of creation that the things that make us stronger are adversity. And that includes pressure, right? Um it's it's seldom the easy way that makes us stronger, right? I would love taking a nap to build muscle mass, however, it does not work that way, correct? Um, but there is definitely uh points of not simple, not simply pain, but injury that can occur. And in our world, from the mental health perspective, what we we sometimes distinguish, we use these words, and we'll talk about this more as we go along, right? This idea of trauma. Um, there's a difference between a big T trauma, right? Like experiencing the death of a loved one, uh, assault or abuse towards oneself. Um those are big, big significant traumas. And I think most people are in agreement. Oh gosh, yes, that can negatively impact you. When we start thinking about and talking about pressure and stress, and I often use those words interchangeably, um an entire series of small tea traumas can equate to a very large T outcome, large T trauma outcome. So for example, I can lift five pounds, right? And I can lift it a bunch of times. So each time I lift it, that's like, oh, and another five pound, and another five pound, another five pound. What if I put all of those five pounds and then try to lift them all at once? Suddenly it's overwhelming. It is too much. So pressure and stress can have those impacts on us in terms of having a cumulative effect on our biological and neurological functioning. So that's the area that we work to try to help folks with. How to decrease those things and how to bring about some degree of health and healing, recognizing that we're never gonna eliminate it, right? Any more than we're gonna eliminate sin prior to the Lord returning, right?

SPEAKER_02 27:52

So you know, I I want to ask you, you know, you mentioned a good point that, you know, pressure is everywhere, you know, and uh it's nor it's really normal. It is whether it fits your work workplace, you know, and a lot of times it's because you really care about it and you not only do you want to succeed, but um, you know, the Lord has put in your heart and you know you want to please the Lord, of course. And so what are those signs of you know that when pressure is starting to become unhealthy and that eventually leads to burnout? Because, you know, I I think that's where kind of burnout starts to happen, right? When it's like too much, I can't do this no more, I can't, and you just want to you know turn your back on it and you know never do it again, whatever it may be, whatever the context of where the pressure's coming from. And so um, what are certain signs that it's starting to become unhealthy?

SPEAKER_00 28:42

Well, I I use two measures. One is uh external feedback. Right. So um if I'm getting feedback from more than one source that I'm not excuse me, if I get feedback from more than one source that I'm not functioning well, like for example, if my wife tells me, hey, you seem off today, is everything okay? And then I also hear a coworker say to me, Hey, you seem off. Is everything okay? I have two sources of input that I should probably go, huh? Let's slow down, pump the brakes, and examine, right? Hey, what's going on? I think the other thing I use as a litmus test for when is stress perhaps a bit much, um, is if I'm noticing it uh in my body in ways that are affecting and impairing my ability to function, right? So if I'm having chronic headaches or I'm feeling nauseous a lot, or if I'm feeling so tense that I can barely straighten my arms out, types of things. Those are good indications that my body is taking this stress that may start off emotionally but get transferred or um I can't think of the word right now. Um where my body just converts that tension into physical uh symptoms like pain and discomfort.

SPEAKER_03 30:25

So somatization. Is that what you're looking for?

SPEAKER_00 30:28

Yeah, and conversion was the word I was looking for too. Um what would you add to that?

SPEAKER_03 30:34

No, I think that was great.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

Thank you guys. So I think one of the biggest misconceptions of struggling mentally automatically means that somebody is struggling spiritually. And so how can people easily confuse this, the struggles with spiritual struggles and mental health struggles?

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Gosh, I would refer back to my wife's uh example that she did earlier, right? That if you think of the most mature uh or admirable believers that you know um and how they hold themselves, and would you also then imagine that outside of those public settings that they're struggling with depression or that they're struggling with anxiety? And in that Lifeway poll back in right, was it 2020, 2022?

SPEAKER_01 31:31

2022.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Yeah, 2022. That's not that's real time post-COVID era. More than half of pastors, the spiritual leaders, right, in our Christian communities are genuinely experiencing substantial levels of depression and anxiety. That's huge. Um, I'm not aware of half the pastors I know publicly proclaiming that they're experiencing these things. And so I would just point that out. And that doesn't mean that they're not spiritually mature, right? Right? Um that way. Well, and listen, one of the things I feel like God's charged us to do um as professionals is in Hebrews, uh, the writer acknowledges that the word of God is alive and living, sharper than any two-edged sword, able to divide even bone from marrow and soul from spirit. Well, that kind of implies that our spiritual lives are different than our soul. Right? Both of those things, I think we can all agree, are invisible. I don't see your spirit any more than I see your soul. I think the soul component, though, is that component of the emotions and thoughts that we have, the desires, those types of things. And helping folks discern when these things are coming from the soul, and or if those are uh aspects that we are to be uh in charge of and or to look at and take action with versus the spiritual side, which is really the Lord's business, right? The Holy Spirit is the one who moves, and that's more external than it is internal. So I think part of our job is to help folks discern when it is one of those versus the other, and it's not a formula, right? It's not just a oh, well, you can determine that if you just look at XYZ or you know, if you just I I used to think uh Philippians 4, 6 through 7 was a formula, right? Paul says, Don't be anxious about anything, but in everything with prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known. And the peace of God, which passes our understanding, will guard your heart and mind in Christ Jesus. I used to think, oh, that's just a formula, right? So if I'm feeling anxious, I just pray, I give thanks, I let God know what I need, and then poof, He owes me perfect peace. Um I discovered pretty quickly in my journey that formula is not the way God works. Um, and so figuring out and and working with people and sitting with people, again, in that whole removing their aloneness factor helps kind of distinguish and differentiate some between that spiritual and emotional component, I think.

SPEAKER_03 34:51

So I agree. I uh I also I was thinking, and maybe a little differently than how do people confuse them? Why do people confuse them? And I think it's partly because it's not those different parts that you talked about in us are not discrete. It's not like there's these clear boundaries. And if you couldn't figure out, oh, this is definitely spiritual, no, I know exactly how to tackle that. This is definitely physical, this is definitely, you know, emotional, shakar, psychological. Um they they run into each other, they impact each other. And so sometimes it is, I think we can figure out this is more significantly spiritual. Let's really talk tackle it in that way, or one of the other categories, but often they just intertwine and they intermix. And so it can be really confusing. What's going on? What's what?

SPEAKER_02 35:46

I agree. Um, you know, I want to talk about like how to create those safer spaces really, really quick. Um, I know one strategy that we've been doing, like media side, this is a little bit behind the scenes. So hopefully behind the curtain. I don't know how the the team feels about this, but a little behind the curtain. And so um, you know, one thing that we've been doing is testimonies, you know. Everyone loves a good testimony, you know, a good testimony to really talk about it, right?

SPEAKER_03 36:11

So encouraging.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

Yeah, and so we've been, you know, trying to work on how to portray that through social media and you know, to make it more like out there. And so, um, for example, like one we had um it was uh a mentor of mine um where we they talked about postpartum depression, and very, very deep it was um amazing, beautiful, beautiful testimony, and um but what are some other ways you know that we can create these safer spaces that are not just you know sharing a story, but you know, to invite people to be vulnerable with us? Because I think you know, we can ask someone to be vulnerable, right? All we want, and ask someone to share their testimony, like we know it's powerful, but are there any other ways in your guys' opinion, like to really try to invite people to be vulnerable with us and not just you know from student church members that we feel are really really involved and that are willing to do it, but you know, from the congregation?

SPEAKER_00 37:05

I have so many thoughts on that. I'm gonna start, I'm gonna let my wife start.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

Well, the first one that comes to my mind is confidentiality because we are very blessed to get to meet with a lot of people who have first tried to work through things in their church. And unfortunately, a lot of times the story that's told is like I shared this in confidence and then it got spread around. It could be through prayer requests, it could be through good intentions. Well, I just thought maybe I could get help for you if I shared this with this person. Right. But when somebody is sharing something so vulnerable and they're being brave to put it out there to be able to respect, this stays where you're intending it to stay.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

Wow. I didn't even think about that 100% confidentiality.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Yep. Wow. And that's and that's a big part of it. Our licenses require it so when people come to see us, they know it's gonna stay here. But when they share it in a small group, who knows? It's gonna show up on the prayer bulletin next week or right on the Facebook page. Right.

SPEAKER_03 38:14

And of course, sometimes they're mandate there's a mandatory reporting when something comes up that's very serious like that. But still, it's a good thing when you can to tell the person, hey, we're gonna go ahead and report this because it needs to happen, so that they know what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Amazing. Yeah. I think another way when you start talking about creating safe communities is recognizing that everyone is a human first. They are all other things second. They are Christian, father, mother, pastor, elder, those are second. Now we identify with those things, so they are primary, and as long as we're breathing air, we are humans first. And in all ways, we all are tempted and we all have struggles, but there's a tendency within the body to say, well, if you're a Christian, if you're a mature Christian, then you should never struggle. So if you express a struggle, the outward response from the body can be something that creates a very unsafe space, right? Because it'll be like, oh, you did what? You struggle with what? Oh my goodness. Well, if I'm on the receiving end of that, what what's going on inside of me? That shut down again.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

The isolation.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Yeah. I'm feeling judged, I'm feeling shamed just based on the response. So learning to be able to sit with a person as they wrestle with their own things, as opposed to feeling the need to rescue them or fix it for them goes a long way in creating a safe space, right? When I can accept, of course you struggle with that. You know, we all struggle with that, right? Um, that's I think a big part of creating safe spaces is being okay with the fact that we're all in this journey together. I have not arrived, right? I I want to be better today than I was yesterday, but make no mistake, I am still human and I am still very flawed, and I still need Christ as my savior to uh regenerate my heart, my soul, uh, my body. I I still need him for all of those things. And so when I am sharing a weakness or a flaw or a sin, what I need is compassion, right? That's that's what I see throughout scripture. I see compassion. Really, that that's true old and new testament, right? It's most evident in the works of Christ, but what we need from one another is compassion. Um first and foremost, maybe not exclusively, but first and foremost, and I think as a body, it's easy to maybe put that on the back end, right? Right.

SPEAKER_03 41:47

So can I piggyback off that? Of course, because I think that's such a great point he's making, and as he was talking, I was thinking about how sometimes people are willing to initially bring up what they're struggling with, and maybe they'll bring it up a second time, maybe a third time, but then they might shut down because there might be a sense of impatience with, well, are you doing the things I suggested you do? Are you doing your quiet time every day? Are you praying in this way? Are you reading these passages? And it can start to feel like performance, like I'm not, they're gonna feel like I'm not performing well enough, or I would be over this. And so I think what he's saying is when when we can, as the listener of somebody who's sharing, not feel the need to fix it by we'll do this, this, this, and this. But we feel like a big part of our job is to care, to validate that I believe this is real and this is a real struggle, and that matters to me. That's a lot less pressure, and you're not trying to fix it for them, and then there's not this sense of like, well, did you do it and are you better yet? And I think the listener can be patient for longer because some struggles will last a lifetime. I mean, we don't want to face that. Some we work on, they get a pr get better pretty quickly, some take longer, and some are going to be a lifetime struggle. And that's not because God isn't big enough to you know help us have victory in any area, but it just seems to be how God does things that not every single thing does He quickly deliver us from. And so having a message of, hey, I'm glad you shared this with me, and I'm not trying to rush you through this. It I think would help people continue to be open as they continue to struggle.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

It's an amazing perspective. I think whether if you're a leader in a group or whatever it may be, leader in a church base or a mentor to someone in life, I think there's always that pressure of you know wanting them to get better immediately. Of course. Um and you know, sometimes it may personally feel and I say Also, from experience, definitely. Like sometimes it may feel like they're still struggling. I'm not doing my part as a leader, you know, effectively. But just normalizing that it's a process and it takes time. And I love that you guys mentioned that it's kind of this full circle thing. You know, you talk about it, you know, first thing is always talking about trying to create safe spaces. And then when these safe spaces are potentially starting to create, you know, keep that confidential, keep that confidentiality, you know, um, you know, between them to let them know that this is still a safe space. Not only that, like receiving, you know, whether if it's you know, talking in small groups, like, hey, like that's a normal struggle. Like, don't shame somebody for struggling to that. But then that also leads back to actually sharing it. And so it's really all like I just love how you guys portrayed, like it's a full circle. It is. Um, and so just as we wrap up, because you know, we're kind of getting to the end of wrapping up our time, I want to ask you um two questions, hopefully short and sweet. But what would you tell somebody that is listening right now if they're feeling overwhelmed? How what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_00 45:08

I know the first thing I would say is thank you for telling me, and you're not alone. Right? That would be the that's kind of my opening uh statement to just about everyone, because we're not alone. Like unfortunately, with our phones, as connected as we are, it actually is very isolating for so many folks. Right, right. Um people feel alone because again, they're not having these whitewashed, sanitized experiences of amazing joy 24-7. Right, right. And most of life is dull, boring, and difficult. Yeah, right. Uh the internet and television scrubs all the dull, boring, and difficult portions and presents all the fun times. And then it taps into the FOMO in us, right? That fear of missing out.

unknown 46:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

Um, but that's not real. That's artificial. So um we have moments of that, but not prolonged periods. So I would start with that. I would start with you're not alone and um thank you for sharing it. What would you do with someone who's expressing feelings of overwhelm?

SPEAKER_03 46:24

I would encourage them to share it. I mean, you're assuming they have shared it, which is good. I would encourage them to share it for sure. And I don't know why my mind keeps maybe because it's my position, I'm often the listener. I want to say to the listener of somebody who's approached by an overwhelmed person, sometimes they say it's this and this and this and this and this and this, like so many things. And part of what's gonna help is to just pull out, okay, you told me all those things, let's pull out one and let me care about that one thing thoroughly. Tell me more about that, help me understand more what it's like to be in your skin. Um, because if you if you cover a ton of things and it's too much for the listener and too much for the person who's experiencing it, a lot of times there's no relief. Right. So if you can just, you know, pull out a couple of things and really dive in with them, just to even understanding and to expressing there's something about putting a label to the emotion that the overwhelmed person is feeling, that's very helpful. And and just sitting with a couple of things, they may feel more relief than just trying to cover it all.

SPEAKER_00 47:39

I like it.

SPEAKER_02 47:41

My follow-up, I think you kind of um I think the phrase is hit the nail on the head. Um I think you kind of already talked about it, but I don't know if there's anything that you would like to add, Mr. Mr. Hart, um, Mr. Robert. Um, what would be the first step that you would give to somebody that is struggling with the silent battle, whatever it may be?

SPEAKER_00 48:01

That's struggling with what?

SPEAKER_02 48:02

Like this silent battle, whether it's like feelings of overwhelm or anything that falls into the umbrella of mental health. What's the first step that you would always recommend?

SPEAKER_00 48:11

Well, the first step I'd recommend actually is this intersect between the mental and the spiritual is uh have you expressed the depth, the extent, and um the category of that pain, sadness, fear, anger, uh helplessness, hopelessness, whatever. Have you expressed that to the Lord? Because a lot of times you'd be shocked when you start to ask people that, they're like, Well, I can't really take that to the Lord, because again, they're feeling shameful or they're feeling embarrassed, or you know, it's a sin if I'm depressed, so I can't take that to the Lord. That's like saying, God bless my sin. Um, I would start with saying, start with, have you brought that to the Lord? And if not, I encourage you to do that. And then I would say, next step is who else knows this? Right? Who have you shared that with? Um, presumably they're sharing it with us, right? Um, whether it's in a professional setting or in a just a personal setting, right? We we're the same, we let me say it this way, maybe not the same people. We are very consistently uh compassionate, whether we are being uh our role of counselor with a person or if we're just being a friend with someone, right? We listen, we care, and we encourage people to share more because that's it. Again, if you're not sharing, you're sitting in this alone, and that's unnecessary. I don't want you to have to be alone, and usually that involves me asking more rather than telling more. Did you do or you know, do this, do that, pray this, pray that, as opposed to have you tell me more? What have you done? Asking questions. So those are the things I would do. Is anything else you'd like to add, Miss Kia?

SPEAKER_03 50:20

When you're taking it to the Lord, I find it really helpful to picture Jesus approaching your pain, your overwhelm in the way he approached hurting people with compassion, with kindness, with gentleness. That's the way he approached hurting people, and I think that's that's how he approaches us in our pain.

SPEAKER_02 50:47

That's amazing. Wow. This has been such an amazing conversation. I'm like, I gotta listen back and take all these notes, you know, take notes. This has been a phenomenal, and I appreciate you guys sharing. Um, you know, in this first episode, and you know, I think we can kind of to put everything in a bubble, you know, to wrap things up. I think one of the biggest things that people need to hear today is that you know, you don't have to wait until you completely fall apart to ask for help. You know, you're not alone and you don't have to go through it alone and talk about it. And also for the receivers, you know, face it with compassion, mercy, and grace, just like you know, the Lord shows us every single day. And so I want to thank you guys for joining us on this very first episode, and also to all the listeners out there. Um, thank you for joining us in this first episode of Connecting in Progress. And this is just, you know, this this is the beginning of our series, you know, the sad, the silent battle within. And so if there's one thing that, you know, we hope that you take away from today is that you're not alone. We're struggling, and silence doesn't have to be your answer. And um, because connection doesn't stop on Sundays. So we'll see you guys next time.