SPEAKER_02 0:14

Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of Connection in Progress. This podcast is all about having real conversations that go beyond what happens on Sunday because life is a pause after service ends, and neither do the pressures that people carry. So today we're continuing our mental health series, The Silent Battle Within, where we've been talking about everything mental health, pressures, identity, emotional exhaustion, whatever you may think we've been talking about it. And the silent battles that people carry every single day. Today's episode is called The Weight of Being the Head. A lot of people, leadership feels like a privilege and more. Let me say it one more time. Today's episode is called The Weight of Being the Head. Because for a lot of people, leadership feels less like a privilege and more like pressure. Whether if it's the pressure to provide, the pressure to stay strong, the pressure to lead perfectly, pressure to never break down, or just the pressure of having to keep on going. And so somewhere along the way, people learn that being the head meant carrying everything silently. Um, I'm joined today by Mr. Robert and Miss Kia Hart from Living Hope, El Paso's one and only Christian that we know of, right? As of right now, Christian counseling service. And um that we'll be asking a lot of different questions to. And so I think one of the biggest questions today, and our goal to answer, is who taught us leadership and what does it look like? Um, whether if it's socially, you know, was it culture, social media, family? Hopefully, you know, we can look at what scripture actually says. And so, because sometimes what society teaches, whether if it's men in leadership or women in leadership, it looks very different from what the Bible actually teaches. So before we begin, I'd like to just open us up in prayer and um that our conversation can be blessed and just focus on what really matters. So let's pray. Heavenly Father, thank you for another beautiful day, Lord, another beautiful moment, Lord, where we can talk about your word, Lord, share our personal experiences, Lord, and just be connected in fellowship, whether if it's through online, listening, or just talking about it, Lord, which is sometimes rare nowadays. I play that I pray that the Spirit enters all of us, Lord, and that this conversation is blessed. And the goal isn't our own personal goal, Lord, but yours. I pray that you can speak through each and every single one of us, Lord, whatever it may be, to say what you want us to say, Lord. And I pray for everybody that may be listening, Lord, to have open arms, open hearts, Lord, open ears, and receive us with open arms, Lord, for the words that we're gonna say, Lord. And I pray that, you know, if it's one little takeaway, Lord, that you know we're able to share with somebody, Lord, then your vision was met, Lord. Thank you for this time. Thank you for your mercy over us, even though that we don't always deserve it. All this I pray in Jesus' name, amen. So um, I would like to just totally jump into it. Who taught us about what being the head means? Was it family, culture, or scripture?

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Well, I would say long before men crack open scripture, they are influenced by their families first, right? Again, we're born into a family, so right away we're gonna be influenced by our family, which comes with generational issues. Um and then we're often influenced by our culture, right? School, our friends, our neighbors is the next layer. Um fortunately, then by the time we get to scripture, hopefully what we see is a depth of what leadership can be and should be, uh, that's far more nuanced and far more um relational than we get, even maybe from our families and from culture. So I I certainly I hope that scripture influences us. Uh certainly I try to make scripture influence uh us and our family, um, but it certainly make no mistake, culture and my own family has influenced that as well.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

So anything else you like to add.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

The only thing that I would add to that is that I think we are way more taught by our experiences with leadership than the um than the explicit messages given verbally about leadership.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

What an amazing point, because that's very true. I mean, how many I I can say myself, like there's certain things from a leader that I may learn from, but also like I'll probably I would never do. But at the end of the day, is it what scripture says? And so what a what a nice thing to add. So first I want to talk about something that I think there's a lot of debate. There's a lot of things that society has said about it. Um scripture definitely talks about it, but what does society say a real man should be responsible for? And what is a real man actual responsible? What is it actually what is he actually responsible for? Excuse me.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Well, I'm gonna show my age here a little bit. So, you know, if you're a listener who's like a millennial or a Gen Z or Gen Alpha, um, what I'm about to say, you're gonna be like, huh? You've never heard of. But if you're a Gen Xer or a baby boomer or uh the greatest generation, you're gonna recall this. Back in the 90s, there was a a series of books written that were called entitled Everything in Life I Learned from My Kindergarten Teacher. Okay. In kindergarten, we played games to learn principles, right? And they carry it on with us the rest of our life. Um, and for example, I want you to think back to your own childhood. Um, didn't you play a game in kindergarten called Follow the Leader? Leader. Exactly. Luis, how do we play this game?

SPEAKER_02 6:57

Um there's well, there's a couple ways. Um, it can be kind of like a Simon says style, but the original way.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Oh, you've jumped ahead. Oh that's a whole different game, Simon says.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

The original way is that you're in a line and you essentially follow what the person in front of you does, and it's uh you keep going.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Somebody's selected to be the leader, right? And it just means they go first, right? And usually if it's a boy, they pick their nose and then they hump and then make everybody else pick their nose, right? And they scratch their hiny and you know, they burp and they do things and they laugh and they're like, ha ha ha ha ha, I made you burp, um, or pick your nose. And then when the girls do, a lot of times they'll do cartwheels or you know, things like that. It simply means going first. That's not complicated, right? But see, then we also play that other really fun game in Kinder. You said it. It is Simon says. And how do you play Simon says? How is that different than Follow the Leader?

SPEAKER_02 8:04

Um, so for Simon says, it's a direction-based game. So um the person who's Simon doesn't necessarily actually um have to do the action, but they'll say, Simon says, Pat your head. And then you can give an action without saying the word Simon says, and they're not supposed to do that action because Simon didn't say. And funny enough, we actually play that game with the kids and we play Jesus says as a fun little like just different way to play. You know, listen to Jesus and not toever Simon is.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

But Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

In follow the leader, what's the goal? Not to get out and only do what Simon says. Oh, and follow the leader. Follow the leader. Do um what the person in front of you is doing.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

That's right. To to follow the example that was led. What is the objective in Simon says?

SPEAKER_02 8:54

To essentially trick someone into getting out.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

That is correct. Right? Simon's a little dictator. And he's trying Simon. That's right. He's trying to trick you, right? Ha ha. Gotcha. I didn't say that. You're out of here. And every kid loves that because it's a power trip, right? Somehow in this course of life, and even you did it unknowingly right when we started, right? We confuse these two things or we equate them to say both are examples of leadership. And I want to suggest to you that scripture is unequivocal. Leadership is not, Simon says, leadership is absolutely follow my example. Right. Jesus said the things I do because I see the Father doing them. And I join him in that. I want you to do the things you see me do. Paul says, follow my example. That is leadership from a biblical perspective. Now, we live here in El Paso, big military community. Right. Right? What is the example of leadership that tends to come out of the military? Simon says. Simon says. And listen, in combat, that is understandable. Right. Right. In combat, if there's a uh location device located, well, actually, I have one right here. It's called my phone, right? Um if there's a missile zoned in or locked on to the location device in my phone, and I'm the leader. If I cannot compel the people in this room to get this phone out of here, what's gonna happen to us?

SPEAKER_02 10:57

I'm gonna go south.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

Yeah, we're all gonna die. So in combat scenarios, it is kind of important to follow directions. It is important to take command, but don't confuse command with leadership. Leadership says, I'm going to show you how to be, as Christ showed us how to be, right? He was the servant leader. Oh, he who says he wants to be greatest among you, he's gonna show it by serving the rest of you, right? That's what it means to be a leader.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Wow. I never thought of it that way. What an amazing example. That's totally relatable. Is there anything you'd like to add, Miss Kia?

SPEAKER_01 11:50

I just love that example too. I use it a lot. I think it's an easy one for us ladies to imagine being comfortable following. Like, oh, you're gonna try and be the first one to forgive, and you're gonna try and be the example of being gentle, and you're gonna be that doesn't feel threatening in any way to a woman to imagine following a leader like that. And then it also doesn't exclude us, ladies, because we can also try and participate in and being the first one to forgive and being the the first one, the go-firster, I say, um, in in all the beautiful things. So in that way, everybody can be involved in leadership. But where a man feels that he has a special responsibility in that, it's a very easy to follow scenario for anybody who's trying to follow.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

So I think there's a common fear in all this, right? The biggest fear of all, which is failure. Um, whether if you're going first and you're doing it wrong, or even, you know, in the wrong sense of command, right? Simon says, giving the wrong command. Um, so there's always this fear no matter where you're from. Um why do you think, and where does this fear in your guys' opinion come from?

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Well, I think certainly I I can say on a personal level, I got that fear from my family because if I failed, I was punished. Right, right. And even scripture says, right, perfect love casts out fear because fear um is a result of being punished, right? We're afraid we're going to be punished. Um, so there's this fear of failure as opposed to uh I think a more healthy approach would be there there really isn't failure. There's success and then there's learning, right? So, because how does one learn? Is it not through failure?

SPEAKER_02 14:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Right? I mean, I I learn to color in the lines by failing to color the lines on the front end. Right. And then I work on it and then I get it right. Um I have an expression that I use, and I I'm even having to modify it as I get older, but it's like, look, as long as there's not a dead body, it can be fixed. Right. But don't we even believe in a God that fixes dead bodies? That's true. Right? I now I don't like to I don't want to test that theory, right? Let's not start producing dead bodies so that we can say, look what our God can do. Let's raise these dead bodies. Um, but I I that fear of failure really does come from a sense of fear of punishment. And when we recognize that Jesus took our punishment, right? That God loves us and he wants us to know him and to love him and love one another, that perfect love that he gives us should cast out our fear of failure, of punishment, of of really just about anything.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

So can I add to it? Absolutely. I didn't know we needed to move on. Um, I'm thinking also that we have a feel fear of failure when we tie the idea of success to outcome. So I'm kind of kind of inaccurately recall a story of my daughter's. So if she's listening, I know I probably got this wrong, but it's for the point. Um she wanted so much to go to Stanford for her and MIT master's or PhD or something. I just remember that was her like life's goal, and she did everything anyone could do to get themselves there. And it turned out through some events that she ended up going somewhere else. And it turned out amazing. It like we couldn't have predicted she ended up getting to be in a program where she went straight from her bachelor's to having a PhD in exactly what she wanted, and it's provided this amazing route. Wow. And she at first felt like a failure because I went for this goal and it didn't happen. But now looking back, she can see oh, maybe that wasn't God's plan. Maybe he had a different plan in mind. And she wasn't responsible for making a certain outcome. She was responsible for doing everything she could to prepare for whatever God was going to do.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

And so I just think of all the tasks. I think what I hear from men in counseling often that they're thinking it's my job to make this much money or have this kind of a house or to provide in this way, or to make sure my kids never get harmed, or whatever the outcome is that they can't actually control and they're not even made to control. And so remembering that the outcome isn't our responsibility. That's in a large way, that's God's God's domain. And our part is to each day do what we're called to do.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Wow. You know, some of speaking personally, um some of my best lessons, you know, came from accepting my failures. Um, you know, and I think I have a a group of friends that, you know, we we always share what's happening, right? We have that community, that fellowship with each other. Um, and I know sometimes it's so easy from both ends to either hear like when someone's failed. There's like a little justification of like, oh, well, you failed because of ABC variables, you know. But, you know, that may be true, you know, if it is, but at the end of the day, you know, I failed. And that's totally okay. Like normalizing that I messed up and probably my own because I went with something that I wanted that I thought was maybe best. And it's like the I, the I, the I. I thought this was best, so I decided to go with this when it's like, yeah, I messed up. I don't think this is what the Lord necessarily wanted me to do, and that's okay. And it's just like, and I failed. And sometimes it's like, uh, even saying it on camera, I was like, I failed. Well, you know, like it's kind of a big thing to say out, hard thing to say out loud. Um, but normalizing that and accepting it, you know, it's it's okay. It happens.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

That's what a good leader does, though, right? Doesn't a good leader take responsibility, say, wow, I blew that.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Right? I'm I messed up there. That was a poor decision. And let's regroup. Because then you're also now again modeling to other people. How does one recover from a bad choice? How does one recover from making a mistake? Right. Um, and that's where I, you know, I I remind folks all the time yes, prevention is a great skill to have, but a better skill to have is repair and recovery.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Right. So, yes, it would be better to avoid an accident. It is very important to know how to recover from an accident.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

So that's amazing. That's uh that's a good little um expression to keep in mind. Repair. That's most important. So um I want to ask this question. Hopefully it makes sense. It makes sense in my head. One of those um Do men feel like they're allowed to struggle openly? And do women feel the same struggle if there is one?

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Oh, I can just answer that one practically by who shows up in my office, right? Um and I think we may have mentioned this last time, but like, oh my gosh, 80 to 85 percent of my clients are females. And they are there saying, I'm here to work on fill in the blank. I'm here to improve, fill in the blank. Well, if eighty to eighty five percent of my clients are females, where are the men? Right?

SPEAKER_01 21:03

They don't struggle.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Yeah, allegedly, uh they are not given permission to acknowledge that they struggle. So there's very much a cultural or personal or uh there is a messaging out there that says men are not allowed to struggle or have difficulties or be uh really um just struggle in any capacity. Why do you think that is? John Wayne, right? Uh I mean culture for sure. Um and and really it's idolatry at the end of the day. It's where we think we must be God. And if God is perfect. Perfect, then we must be perfect. Um, but then we elevate our status. Uh, I think unduly so. Um, but I think a lot of it is just pride. So, and again, I think we elevate ourselves to the status of God.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

I remember listening to a man who was preaching online or something, and I thought, oh, I want every man to hear this, all my men clients, because he was saying, I when I had my children, I had in mind that I was to role model what a strong man is, what a strong leader is, strength. That was the big thing in his mind. And I think that's that's probably pretty common. It's not every man, but it's pretty common. And he said that at some point, something in his life uh brought him to the place where he was hearing God say to him, No, you model weakness, and where you take it, in your weakness, I am shown strong. And it totally shifted his goal with his with his kids, with his boys in particular. And he started thinking, I want to show them what you do in your weakness. You take it to God. And I just thought, wow, that's a huge release from doing something that's impossible. Always be the strong one. It's not particularly healthy, but it is so culturally taught, and it's so pervasive. And I just thought, what a beautiful um use of scripture right there to help shift that to a healthier thinking. It is okay to have weakness, it's okay to not know the answer. What do we do in those situations? We take that to the Lord and allow him to be shown strong. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

You know, I that's that's such an important message. Um, you know, culture tends to teach leadership, whether if it's through power, dominance, control, especially control, right? Or even success. You know, if you're succeeding, you're doing it right. It's just like not necessarily, you know. Um, but scripture paints a different picture, and that's exactly what I want to continue talking about. So we earlier talked about this um perfect example about Simon says, and follow the leader. So where, whether if it's men or women, sometimes misunderstand leadership as authority instead of responsibility. Um, where did it come from? Is it like a pass down from generation things? Is it we just started believing that you know men have the final say? Um where where did this misunderstanding happen?

SPEAKER_00 25:04

I think it's started right there in Genesis, where after the fall, not before the fall, but as a result of sin, right? When it it puts this where God acknowledges now that we're in this fallen state, um, particularly the women look to men to be their God. They look to men to be their desires. Um, but that's a result of sin, which Jesus came to set us free from, right? Um to return us to a place where we were partners, that we were co-heirs in Christ. Um, I think that's where it started, right? And I think culturally, sometimes we uh easily defer to the fact that, well, we still live in a fallen world, right? Therefore, we should go ahead and somehow maintain these this sense of twisted hierarchy and sense of uh men are gonna dominate and control uh the situation. Um, I think that's a big part of it. Um, but I don't think that's the way God intends it to be at this point. Anything else you'd like to add? What do you think, Con?

SPEAKER_01 26:27

I like that. I think that's very true. Um, the thing that came to my mind is that as humans, we all want control. We don't like the feeling of like, I don't know where this is going, uh, things are out of control. I think that's that's a human experience. So I think if there is somewhere you can point to to say, well, I'm the one who should be controlling things, it's very easy to want to adopt that in an authoritative way because it it feels better to be in control. And so I just think it's it's a temptation that anybody would have that's told you're in charge. I mean, think of like if you are a parent and you have your kids are growing up, and the oldest one gets to a point where they get to babysit the the younger ones, and you say, um, you get to be the one to take care of them all. Most older kids aren't thinking, oh, I'm responsible to take care of all my siblings and make sure all their needs are met. No, they think I'm in charge. I get to I get to tell them what to do. I think it's just totally natural. Yeah. Well, it's easier, too. It's easier and in some ways it's fun. And so to not just go with that is takes a lot of intentionality.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

Yeah. And it is, it's just way easier to be selfish and controlling than it is to be Christ-like. Right. Right? Sacrificial. I think that's why Christ had to come and set the example for us, because when left to our own devices, we want to dominate, we want to control. Um, we need a savior to show us, yeah, that's not the way.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

And that's exactly what I want to talk about next, actually. So, how did Jesus model leadership differently? And how did he set us free from that?

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Oh my gosh. Countless ways. So, um, you know, I think sometimes um because we know the end of the story, it's easy to skip to the end and forget a lot of times that Jesus even demonstrated a process to us. Like when I think of uh Jesus submitting himself to uh doing that which is the Father's will in his life, right? Um God, your will be done, not mine. Um, we forget that that was the end of the journey. Because if you take that story, the story of the Garden of Gethsemane, and you back up, you see that the process Jesus showed us was first and foremost, when he was in a distressing situation, right, in the Garden of Gethsemane. Do you remember the distressing situation he was in?

SPEAKER_03 29:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

He's about to be crucified, right? He's about to be betrayed, and he knew this was coming. The first thing he did was he called his closest friends and said, Peter, James and John, come here, pray with me, stay with me. My soul is overwhelmed to the point of death. This is the place where he starts right, sweating these drops of blood. His first step is to reach out to his social support system or the body of Christ today, right? He's role modeling leadership. When we're going through tough times, look to the people God's put in our life. Well, that's hard to do. Right. Right? Next, he goes before the Father and he pleads his case.

SPEAKER_03 30:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

He did not start with Lord, your will be done. He started with, Lord, all things are possible with you. Please don't make me do this. Please take this burden from me. Take this cup from me. And then he yielded. We forget sometimes that that he role models this process, not simple events, not simple decisions. He role models this process of how to lead, how to lead by example. Obviously, we know the one because we've been taught a lot of times at the Last Supper, he becomes the servant. Instead of saying, You guys serve me, you bring me the meal, you wash my feet, you know, he washed their feet. He served them. That's the way we're supposed to be. And again, there's just countless examples throughout scripture where he role modeled to them how to be, right? When when people would come to him with examples of, you know, hey, Jesus, look, I I tithed all these, I tithe my spices, if I'm a Pharisee, right? I tithe my dill and my cumin. And Jesus is like, those are actions, right? You can whitewash a tomb. On the inside, it's still filled with death. He's revealing what's going on inside of us to say, God is more concerned with what is inside of us than the outside, right? You've heard that it was said, don't murder. Back up and look inside. Inside, you got these angry, murderous thoughts and feelings. Deal with those, and you don't even really have to worry about the behavior. So just I just my mind floods with examples of leadership that Christ showed us in how to be, how to view the world, how to view ourselves, and how to view others. So Kia is anything else you'd like to add?

SPEAKER_01 33:04

I'm just thinking of the idea that Jesus, his leadership was rooted in love rather than dominance. And when we lead in a way that comes from love, people are going to the environment is gonna flourish, it's gonna feel safe, people will feel feel cared for. And when it's done done from a dominance place, it breaks down a sense of safety for the people that are being led. And he just role modeled that obviously perfectly.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

And then um I want to transition a little bit. Um, this is gonna be a little bit men focused, but I think it's because you know, there's misconceptions, and I think it's something that we can all learn. Um, but I think one of the biggest struggles that men face is feeling pressure um that they don't know how to talk about. And so, and I think you mentioned it, you guys had mentioned it like practically, like there's you guys have more women um than men. So why do so many men stay silent? Why is there uh you know miscommunication when it comes to that?

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Let me just acknowledge, first of all, there's some biology here, right? Um I'm sure you've seen or heard comedians talk about the idea that, you know, back in the 70s or 60s, somebody did a word count and just followed men and women around and just sort of clocking how many words a day do they speak? And in general, uh and I'm I'm gonna get these numbers wrong, but just for illustrative purposes, women spoke 30,000 words in a day, and men spoke about 10,000 words in a day. Um, in general, the regions of our brain uh where language come from, with men, it tends to be underdeveloped. So men do tend to use fewer words than women. As a group, now, like I said earlier, all stereotypes are wrong, but in general, they're pretty helpful to understand. So as a group, men tend to speak less. And so when you talk about therapy or counseling being maybe a verbal endeavor, that would make sense why more women tend to show up for that. Um then you you can look at other areas in life where like uh men tend to be more active. Uh you know, men tend to engage in activities where there's not a lot of words spoken. Me hunt, shoot gun, me throw rock, you know. So there's some biology going on there. Um, but then that gets reinforced culturally by having a low expectation for men to use words to express what's going on, right? So there is a sense of uh, hey, uh you don't have to use your words. In general, men have low emotional intelligence because they're typically only rewarded for demonstrating acts of frustration or anger rather than expressing the more vulnerable emotions like sadness or fear, right? What are you, a sissy, right? Are you crying? Um, and then we start saying it as if it's derogatory to say, oh, you're acting like a girl, right? Because men are often culturally reinforced to not express their emotions. So now that doesn't make it biblical because right, I think throughout scripture we see God specifically says he draws close to the brokenhearted. It does not say he draws close to brokenhearted women. He draws close to all of us who are brokenhearted, um, as an encouragement for us to experience and express those emotions. So did I answer your question? You sure did. Okay. You want to add to that?

SPEAKER_02 37:54

Anything else you'd like to add?

SPEAKER_00 37:55

No, I thought that was covered really well.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

So what are the consequences? What happens when men carry this pressure internally for too long?

SPEAKER_00 38:09

That is so simple. We die. There it is. Biologically, just click, set your stopwatches to it. Uh, we hold it all in and we die younger. That's it. Right? Wow. I think it's it it's the data supports that. Um it's just men die younger uh because we hold it all in. So uh I always try to encourage men hey, you want to live longer? Come to my office and learn how to life expectancy increased absolutely. Well, I can't guarantee it, but I could say the data would show uh you're gonna swing the odds in your favor. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

And the journey to that, often what you're gonna see is either emotional shutdown, which is gonna look like detachment, escape. My gosh, how many people are just playing video games to escape? Um, I mean, it's just so so prevalent now.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

Me playing video games to escape.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Um, or feeling numb. Or the opposite of the shutdown is explosive outbursts of either anger or irritability. Those are often the signs that it's that pressure is being held for too long.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

Wow. So how does internal pressure also how will it also affect relationships and families?

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Go first there.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

Sure. Uh how does it how does internal pressure affect relationship and families?

SPEAKER_02 40:04

Yes, this pressure that we've been talking about, um, that men have in caring, how will that affect your relationship that you're in and your families?

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Well, if you consider what I just brought up, the either emotional shutdown, which is detaching, escaping, or being numb. I mean, it's pretty pretty easy to imagine how that can impact the people are you're around. They sense that, as I said, like the idea of um of not being present. It's like you're here, but you're not here. I can't reach you. I don't feel connected to you. And our part of the intentionality, I think, in God, how God created us and not wanting us to be alone is that we have connection. So the connection is gone, and that's painful and unhealthy. And if it goes on too long, it affects both the individual and the people. And it's not just family, it could be it could be friendships, it could even be a church family, church family that can feel like this person is now here, they show up, but I don't feel the connection to them. Yeah, it's it's bringing death instead of life. And we can sense that it's it's very powerful. And then when there's explosive outbursts of anger or irritability, well, that completely impacts an environment and people feeling safe or secure. Um, the people around that person may shut down themselves because they're like, oh, if I show up, I don't know when that's going to trigger something. So it has definitely an impact on those around as well as the individual.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

Sure. Well, and uh I would just summarize that by saying it creates distance, or in terms of attachment, it ruptures the attachment, right? It it injures or separates or breaks the attachment within the family. You know, a healthy, in a healthy family dynamic, um, and you know, it's easy sometimes to forget these things as we get older because we think, oh, I've grown up, I don't need to think about that anymore. But in a healthy functioning family, when a child, and I'm thinking like a preschool aged child, um is feeling sad or hurt or scared or angry or happy. Any of the major feeling groups or categories, I just named them all: sad, mad, glad, scared, and I've I included hurt, but I typically include that with sadness as well. When children feel those things, they move toward their caregivers in a healthy family. They do not run into their room to be alone with them, they move toward mom and dad, they move towards their brother and sister. That is healthy attachment. When we can express those feelings in relationship, they actually grow and strengthen the connection and bond. Um when it's unhealthy, uh when it's either withheld or uh, like you talked about, exploding out or used uh angrily to harm others, it severs those relationships, it leads to isolation, which leads to a variety of other mental health conditions like depression or anxiety or a whole host of other things. Those are the two big categories. So um

SPEAKER_02 44:00

So I think we can all collectively say that healthy leadership starts with emotional and spiritual health. Yes. Not pretending that everything is okay. And so to kind of begin to wrap everything up, what are some what are some habits that can help someone that is in a position of leadership stay mentally and emotionally grounded?

SPEAKER_00 44:29

Well, staying connected with others. That's the number one thing I encourage people to do. Um in a marriage or family, the first place or uh your primary sources of those, uh, if you're married, is gonna be your spouse, right? Um, but your spouse isn't always available for a variety of reasons. Sometimes there's proximity issues, right? My spouse is not available because they're literally at work right now, and I am right here sitting on this yellow sofa and in a conversation with Luis. Um like sometimes they're not physically available. So then I go to the next tier out. Okay, well, who's my friend or my social support, right? The people who I trust who are not gonna steer me away from God or from the body of Christ, but they're gonna point me towards the Lord. Um, uh I have to be able to share these things, not go alone. Because remember our original dilemma right there in Genesis chapter two, it is not good for us to be alone. We're not designed to be alone in it. So we have to reach out to those around us and let them know what's going on. Now, sometimes if if we're not clued in, like we haven't been taught as men, if you don't know what you're feeling, well a lot of times what we have to do is slow down and maybe again identify if if I don't know what's happening emotionally, maybe I start with physically what's going on with my body? Why are my fists clenched? Why are my teeth right? Why, why am I why am I breathing this way? Huh. These are signs that something's going on emotionally in me that I need to perhaps figure out, right? And that's where, again, the body of Christ should come in alongside of me to say, hey, you really look frustrated right now. Wow, you look really angry. What's going on? Let's figure out how to soothe that and calm that.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

I really think that these skills are the same for men and women, and yet for men, a lot of times they are taught things that are so counter to these skills that it's harder for them to feel okay about it. So what I'm thinking is like um when we slow down, it's just piggybacking on what you were saying, it's not totally new, but it's easy to think, well, I took a break, I watched Netflix for a day, or I took a break, I went and I shot guns for a day. And there is something valuable about that. But that is not the same as slowing down and noticing what is happening inside and identifying what is happening inside and sharing it with a safe person. Um, it'd be great if you had another man in your life that you could actually share this word, sounds so not typically masculine, tender things with. But that would be really healthy to have a man that would not call you a sissy um when you do that.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

Vulnerable would be the word I would use.

SPEAKER_01 48:12

Vulnerable. Let's say that so much better. But but it's just a safe person. It could be that you share it with your wife or your sister. It doesn't have to be a male, but that you share it with a safe person. So making sure that those breaks you take are not just tuning out, distracting, ignoring, ignoring, and saying, Well, I took a break from doing my daily tasks, but but they are actually productive in ways that bring about health.

SPEAKER_02 48:44

Amazing. Um I think the um what you had mentioned is so important about you know what kind of rest and like recovering really means, you know, because that the I think that's a misconception that I just that that I kind of hear from people where it's like, oh, yeah, I'm trying to rest and plan a big vacation, you know, where we all do these, all these stuff, and we're gonna go from A to B to C to you know, elemental P and um all this stuff. And it's just like you're counting that as rest, but that's not you actually resting or you know, taking a step back and not saying that it's not important to definitely go on the vacation, but you know, there's a difference of you know, just stop doing what you're doing and actually like examining, you know, what's been going on personally. And um, you know, I think one of the biggest things that people need to hear if they're in a position of leadership, uh men or women, is that it's leadership isn't about carrying everything alone, right? It's about definitely you're going first, like you guys mentioned in the beginning. Um, but also it is also about failing in a way, you know, learning about how you messed up and coming to your people and saying, hey, yeah, that I messed up, I made a wrong call, or you know, it didn't go the way that I thought, because maybe I lost focus and what you know God had implanted in my heart. But, you know, it's about moving forward. And so thank you guys for for joining us in another episode of Connection in Progress. And I just want to mention our last episode, our sixth episode, is actually going to be a QA. And so if at any point you have been listening and you know want to be like, oh, what about this, or want to interject? And of course, it's you can't as a listener. Um, we'll be having a forum that we that you'll be able to fill out and have be able to get involved as a listener and provide us questions that maybe we should have missed or maybe should have expanded on. And so this has been another conversation in our series, The Silent Battle Within. And if there's one thing that we hope that people can take away from today, it's this that leadership is not control, strength is not silence. Healthy leadership starts with honesty, healing, and community. Because connection isn't stuck on Sunday. We'll see you guys next time.