{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":0.299,"endTime":1.38,"body":"Hey,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":0.299,"endTime":1.38,"body":"how's it going everybody."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1.38,"endTime":4.02,"body":"Welcome back to the Average"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1.38,"endTime":4.02,"body":"Joe Finances Podcast."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":4.02,"endTime":7.65,"body":"I'm your host, Mike Cavaggioni"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":4.02,"endTime":7.65,"body":"and today's guest is Mark Willis."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":7.65,"endTime":10.5,"body":"So mark, super excited to have"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":7.65,"endTime":10.5,"body":"you on the show with me today."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":10.5,"endTime":11.55,"body":"Thanks for joining us."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":11.85,"endTime":12.48,"body":"Oh, Mike."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":12.51,"endTime":13.35,"body":"Glad to be on man."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":13.355,"endTime":14.01,"body":"Thanks for having me."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":14.309,"endTime":15.03,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":15.03,"endTime":19.641,"body":"Hey I would like to start this the way"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":15.03,"endTime":19.641,"body":"I start every podcast interview, and we"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":19.641,"endTime":21.471,"body":"wanna know a little bit more about you."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":21.476,"endTime":24.366,"body":"So if you could share your story,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":21.476,"endTime":24.366,"body":"like how did you get started?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":24.427,"endTime":27.369,"body":"Especially as a CFP and"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":24.427,"endTime":27.369,"body":"what you're doing right now."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":27.448,"endTime":30.57,"body":"I know you're the author of a"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":27.448,"endTime":30.57,"body":"best-selling book and you run"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":30.57,"endTime":32.19,"body":"a financial firm in Chicago."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":32.19,"endTime":35.22,"body":"So if you could just share with"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":32.19,"endTime":35.22,"body":"us how this all started for you."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":35.402,"endTime":37.892,"body":"I very quickly"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":35.402,"endTime":37.892,"body":"discovered that I'm not your"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":37.892,"endTime":39.362,"body":"average financial planner."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":39.552,"endTime":41.582,"body":"And that's literally the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":39.552,"endTime":41.582,"body":"name of our podcast, Not Your"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":41.582,"endTime":42.812,"body":"Average Financial Podcast."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":42.812,"endTime":45.282,"body":"So when I saw your show, I was like,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":42.812,"endTime":45.282,"body":"man, we gotta get to know each other."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":45.331,"endTime":46.479,"body":"We've had quite the run."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":46.779,"endTime":48.159,"body":"I never grew up with money."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":48.319,"endTime":50.149,"body":"In fact, I have a first memory of money."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":50.339,"endTime":53.969,"body":"I somehow scratched together 50 bucks"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":50.339,"endTime":53.969,"body":"as a little kid, and it was in a"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":53.969,"endTime":56.129,"body":"paper bag in my sock drawer basically."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":56.429,"endTime":59.699,"body":"And my mom was doing the right"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":56.429,"endTime":59.699,"body":"thing, trying to get me exposed"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":59.699,"endTime":60.959,"body":"to the whole financial world."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":60.964,"endTime":65.371,"body":"So she took me by the hand, took me to"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":60.964,"endTime":65.371,"body":"the bank to open a checking account."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":65.671,"endTime":68.041,"body":"And I was gonna figure this whole"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":65.671,"endTime":68.041,"body":"checking account bank world out."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":68.341,"endTime":70.831,"body":"And I had to bring my little"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":68.341,"endTime":70.831,"body":"paper bag of money with me."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":70.891,"endTime":74.276,"body":"That was my life savings, everything"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":70.891,"endTime":74.276,"body":"I had ever put together, rub"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":74.276,"endTime":77.096,"body":"two pennies together, whatever,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":74.276,"endTime":77.096,"body":"and walked into the bank."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":77.396,"endTime":82.256,"body":"And the job, my job was to hand"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":77.396,"endTime":82.256,"body":"over everything I had ever earned."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":82.256,"endTime":85.009,"body":"All the blood, sweat, and tears"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":82.256,"endTime":85.009,"body":"of a little five year old with a"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":85.009,"endTime":88.074,"body":"lemonade stand and vacuum in the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":85.009,"endTime":88.074,"body":"back, the carpet and whatever to get"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":88.074,"endTime":89.334,"body":"all that money scratched together."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":89.484,"endTime":92.304,"body":"Now I'm supposed to give it to a"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":89.484,"endTime":92.304,"body":"total stranger and I'm supposed to"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":92.304,"endTime":94.734,"body":"trust that he's gonna walk away with"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":92.304,"endTime":94.734,"body":"that money and do something good."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":94.884,"endTime":96.144,"body":"I didn't feel good about that."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":96.444,"endTime":99.951,"body":"And fast forward to the future, I"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":96.444,"endTime":99.951,"body":"didn't know a lot about banking,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":100.13,"endTime":101.81,"body":"but my instinct was right on."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":101.96,"endTime":105.496,"body":"Banks are not exactly people"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":101.96,"endTime":105.496,"body":"that should be trusted with our"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":105.496,"endTime":106.796,"body":"life savings and our hard work."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":106.946,"endTime":111.685,"body":"So fast forward a few more years,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":106.946,"endTime":111.685,"body":"I'm now in a dark hotel room and"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":111.69,"endTime":114.625,"body":"I'm signing my life away as I'm"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":111.69,"endTime":114.625,"body":"getting ready to go to college."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":114.895,"endTime":119.887,"body":"And as I went through my college"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":114.895,"endTime":119.887,"body":"degrees, my wife and I graduated from"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":119.917,"endTime":124.412,"body":"three private school degrees between"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":119.917,"endTime":124.412,"body":"us and we had six figures of student"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":124.412,"endTime":130.022,"body":"loan debt, 120 grand graduating in 2008"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":124.412,"endTime":130.022,"body":"with no job prospects and not really"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":130.027,"endTime":131.762,"body":"any marketable degrees between us."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":131.829,"endTime":133.689,"body":"So talk about a great start to life."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":133.839,"endTime":137.544,"body":"Then we get really saddled"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":133.839,"endTime":137.544,"body":"with the great recession."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":137.544,"endTime":139.625,"body":"And I'm like, man, this"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":137.544,"endTime":139.625,"body":"is gonna be a fun ride."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":139.655,"endTime":143.081,"body":"We were doing a lot of rice and beans and"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":139.655,"endTime":143.081,"body":"rice and all that fun stuff for a while"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":143.381,"endTime":147.662,"body":"and had to find a better way to earn some"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":143.381,"endTime":147.662,"body":"income and become better than debt free."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":147.962,"endTime":150.842,"body":"And right around that time, I"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":147.962,"endTime":150.842,"body":"started working for a CPA firm,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":150.902,"endTime":153.522,"body":"got really interested in my"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":150.902,"endTime":153.522,"body":"own personal financial journey."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":153.672,"endTime":156.712,"body":"Mike, there's something about,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":153.672,"endTime":156.712,"body":"having to come up with a big chunk"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":156.732,"endTime":160.032,"body":"of money every month that gets you"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":156.732,"endTime":160.032,"body":"focused on your finances, right?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":160.032,"endTime":163.022,"body":"When you gotta come up and pay the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":160.032,"endTime":163.022,"body":"pipe or in this case, Sallie Mae,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":163.322,"endTime":166.806,"body":"every single month it gets you"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":163.322,"endTime":166.806,"body":"really focused on, this money thing."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":166.986,"endTime":171.797,"body":"So I can credit my student loans with"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":166.986,"endTime":171.797,"body":"that anyway and the rest is history."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":171.802,"endTime":173.597,"body":"I ended up starting a financial firm."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":173.687,"endTime":177.617,"body":"We've now working with clients all across"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":173.687,"endTime":177.617,"body":"the country, over a thousand clients all"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":177.617,"endTime":179.487,"body":"over the country and really the world."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":179.487,"endTime":183.469,"body":"So it's been a lot of fun and that's"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":179.487,"endTime":183.469,"body":"what brings us to our conversation today."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":183.529,"endTime":185.838,"body":"That is quite"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":183.529,"endTime":185.838,"body":"the background and quite a start,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":185.872,"endTime":188.839,"body":"one of the first things you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":185.872,"endTime":188.839,"body":"is how you and your wife started off"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":188.929,"endTime":192.499,"body":"life with 120K in student loan debt."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":192.499,"endTime":195.149,"body":"So that is definitely not"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":192.499,"endTime":195.149,"body":"a head start, I would say."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":195.17,"endTime":198.113,"body":"And you got yourself to the point"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":195.17,"endTime":198.113,"body":"where you realize you're paying this"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":198.113,"endTime":200.573,"body":"large chunk of money every month."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":200.573,"endTime":202.894,"body":"And that's one of the things that"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":200.573,"endTime":202.894,"body":"opened your eyes, but I, honestly, I"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":202.894,"endTime":205.984,"body":"think, your eyes were open from a very"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":202.894,"endTime":205.984,"body":"young age, from that first trip you"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":205.984,"endTime":207.934,"body":"took to the bank with your mom, right?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":208.024,"endTime":211.418,"body":"When you realize you're handing over all"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":208.024,"endTime":211.418,"body":"of your money that you made, all this"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":211.418,"endTime":215.666,"body":"money that you worked hard for, giving"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":211.418,"endTime":215.666,"body":"it to this person and hoping and trusting"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":215.666,"endTime":219.841,"body":"that they will do something good with"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":215.666,"endTime":219.841,"body":"your money and have it do something where"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":219.841,"endTime":221.771,"body":"it can maybe work a little bit for you."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":221.921,"endTime":224.951,"body":"We all know in reality, that's"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":221.921,"endTime":224.951,"body":"not what really happens,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":224.973,"endTime":226.083,"body":"putting your money in the bank."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":226.095,"endTime":229.854,"body":"It just, it sits there and stagnates"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":226.095,"endTime":229.854,"body":"and inflation just eats it away."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":229.927,"endTime":233.639,"body":"Looking at that from a very young"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":229.927,"endTime":233.639,"body":"age, you already had a really good"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":233.639,"endTime":237.809,"body":"questioning attitude when it came to"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":233.639,"endTime":237.809,"body":"your money and what was going on there."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":237.809,"endTime":239.347,"body":"So I just wanted to touch"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":237.809,"endTime":239.347,"body":"on that a little bit."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":239.347,"endTime":240.182,"body":"That's pretty awesome."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":240.482,"endTime":244.392,"body":"Now, fast forward to where you are"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":240.482,"endTime":244.392,"body":"today, you're paying all this money"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":244.392,"endTime":247.062,"body":"in student loans and it opened up"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":244.392,"endTime":247.062,"body":"your eyes that you want to, you"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":247.067,"endTime":250.902,"body":"wanna get more involved in financial"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":247.067,"endTime":250.902,"body":"literacy and you wanna learn more."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":251.202,"endTime":252.882,"body":"So how did that kind of work for you?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":252.882,"endTime":256.353,"body":"So you went to school, you became a"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":252.882,"endTime":256.353,"body":"certified financial planner and then"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":256.353,"endTime":260.263,"body":"you started off at a firm, and how did"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":256.353,"endTime":260.263,"body":"you build up to where you are today?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":260.357,"endTime":262.577,"body":"It was in those first"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":260.357,"endTime":262.577,"body":"days that I almost got out of the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":262.577,"endTime":266.0,"body":"whole gig because it felt like being"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":262.577,"endTime":266.0,"body":"dropped into the front lines of a war."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":266.05,"endTime":269.332,"body":"Mike, it's a great question in fact,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":266.05,"endTime":269.332,"body":"when I first got into the business of"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":269.332,"endTime":272.917,"body":"finance, I almost got right back out"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":269.332,"endTime":272.917,"body":"again because it was like the aftermath"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":272.917,"endTime":276.577,"body":"of 2008 when I was getting into finance"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":272.917,"endTime":276.577,"body":"and I worked for a CPA at the time,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":276.877,"endTime":279.517,"body":"and it really did feel like I was"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":276.877,"endTime":279.517,"body":"getting dropped into the front lines"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":279.522,"endTime":281.707,"body":"of a war because I would overhear her."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":281.767,"endTime":285.76,"body":"She was a great nationally recognized CPA,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":281.767,"endTime":285.76,"body":"did a lot of great work for her clients."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":285.79,"endTime":287.873,"body":"Tax prep was mostly what"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":285.79,"endTime":287.873,"body":"I was helping her with."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":287.873,"endTime":290.483,"body":"But she was having those"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":287.873,"endTime":290.483,"body":"calls, those conversations with"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":290.483,"endTime":292.193,"body":"clients saying, I'm sorry, Mr."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":292.253,"endTime":296.723,"body":"Client, you're 63 years old, but I just"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":292.253,"endTime":296.723,"body":"lost you a third of your life savings."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":296.723,"endTime":298.583,"body":"I just lost you half your life savings."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":298.733,"endTime":303.203,"body":"That conversation was one I knew"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":298.733,"endTime":303.203,"body":"I never wanted to have ever with a"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":303.203,"endTime":305.663,"body":"client to ruin their life like that."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":305.963,"endTime":307.423,"body":"Felt like a crime."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":307.603,"endTime":311.023,"body":"And I knew it was the markets and I knew"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":307.603,"endTime":311.023,"body":"it was stuff outside of our control."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":311.323,"endTime":314.383,"body":"But like you just said with banks,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":311.323,"endTime":314.383,"body":"you have to hope you have to trust."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":314.593,"endTime":318.313,"body":"These are good words when it comes to"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":314.593,"endTime":318.313,"body":"your religion, it's not so good when it"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":318.313,"endTime":320.026,"body":"comes to your finances and your money."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":320.326,"endTime":320.759,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":320.768,"endTime":324.908,"body":"So hope and trust have no"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":320.768,"endTime":324.908,"body":"place in a financial plan."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":325.208,"endTime":326.288,"body":"Think about that for a minute."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":326.318,"endTime":327.848,"body":"How can we call it a plan?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":328.148,"endTime":330.428,"body":"If we also are using"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":328.148,"endTime":330.428,"body":"words like hope and trust."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":330.728,"endTime":331.148,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":331.328,"endTime":332.228,"body":"That's not a plan."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":332.528,"endTime":334.358,"body":"That's a hope and trust strategy."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":334.418,"endTime":334.958,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":335.258,"endTime":337.204,"body":"So I knew I had to make a choice."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":337.204,"endTime":340.275,"body":"I was either gonna get out of the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":337.204,"endTime":340.275,"body":"business or I had to find strategies"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":340.275,"endTime":342.585,"body":"that didn't rely on hope and trust."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":342.785,"endTime":345.935,"body":"As you obviously can tell, I"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":342.785,"endTime":345.935,"body":"didn't get out of the business."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":346.013,"endTime":347.363,"body":"I dove deeper into it."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":347.476,"endTime":351.624,"body":"I was determined both for my own"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":347.476,"endTime":351.624,"body":"sake, my own personal financial life"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":351.924,"endTime":353.904,"body":"and that of my potential clients."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":353.964,"endTime":359.196,"body":"I wanted to find strategies that had"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":353.964,"endTime":359.196,"body":"some contractual and predictable wealth"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":359.256,"endTime":364.357,"body":"generating gains that we could lean"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":359.256,"endTime":364.357,"body":"on and income that we could count on."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":364.657,"endTime":368.739,"body":"We ended up coining phrases and"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":364.657,"endTime":368.739,"body":"strategies like the income maximization"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":368.739,"endTime":373.779,"body":"strategy, because we knew that income"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":368.739,"endTime":373.779,"body":"was the key to really everything"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":373.779,"endTime":377.769,"body":"when it came to not just your current"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":373.779,"endTime":377.769,"body":"life, but also your future retirement."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":377.831,"endTime":383.231,"body":"And even now to this day with, within"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":377.831,"endTime":383.231,"body":"the last 90 to 120 days or so, clients"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":383.231,"endTime":386.614,"body":"are coming to me saying, Mark, we can't"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":383.231,"endTime":386.614,"body":"buy as much groceries as we used to."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":386.914,"endTime":389.493,"body":"Hey Mark, the price of"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":386.914,"endTime":389.493,"body":"lumber has gone up last year."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":389.493,"endTime":391.993,"body":"Hey Mark, the price of"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":389.493,"endTime":391.993,"body":"everything has gone up this year."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":392.143,"endTime":395.233,"body":"So income is really"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":392.143,"endTime":395.233,"body":"back  to basics, right?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":395.238,"endTime":397.116,"body":"Income is King, Cash Flow is King."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":397.116,"endTime":399.571,"body":"Cash is not king, cash flow is king."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":399.871,"endTime":405.031,"body":"So how can we increase our income, reduce"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":399.871,"endTime":405.031,"body":"our expenses and maximize our income"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":405.331,"endTime":409.125,"body":"over the course of many years, regardless"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":405.331,"endTime":409.125,"body":"of what's happening in the markets or"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":409.125,"endTime":410.875,"body":"banks decide they wanna do with our cash."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":410.875,"endTime":413.035,"body":"I absolutely"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":410.875,"endTime":413.035,"body":"love that answer, Mark, especially"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":413.185,"endTime":416.365,"body":"the way you ended it there"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":413.185,"endTime":416.365,"body":"too with it's not Cash's King."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":416.365,"endTime":420.553,"body":"That is a term that you hear often"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":416.365,"endTime":420.553,"body":"and that's not really the right"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":420.553,"endTime":424.333,"body":"way to look at it, but when you"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":420.553,"endTime":424.333,"body":"say cash flow is king, that's huge."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":424.543,"endTime":427.78,"body":"Cuz the cash flow is what's"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":424.543,"endTime":427.78,"body":"gonna actually keep you safer."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":427.81,"endTime":432.954,"body":"Having that passive income or money that's"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":427.81,"endTime":432.954,"body":"coming  in that you can then utilize."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":433.254,"endTime":435.616,"body":"And, as you were going through,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":433.254,"endTime":435.616,"body":"I was writing some things down"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":435.637,"endTime":437.359,"body":"because inflation is real."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":437.359,"endTime":440.854,"body":"And a lot of people, wanna just put that"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":437.359,"endTime":440.854,"body":"on the back burner or not really think"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":440.854,"endTime":444.574,"body":"about it until they go to the grocery"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":440.854,"endTime":444.574,"body":"store and spend a hundred dollars to"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":444.574,"endTime":447.465,"body":"get a half a bag of groceries where"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":444.574,"endTime":447.465,"body":"that used to get you a full bag, and"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":447.465,"endTime":450.556,"body":"they're scratching their head and"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":447.465,"endTime":450.556,"body":"wondering why how did this happen?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":450.556,"endTime":451.516,"body":"When did we get here?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":451.816,"endTime":454.743,"body":"And it's slowly been creeping"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":451.816,"endTime":454.743,"body":"and creeping year after year."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":455.043,"endTime":458.763,"body":"And if you're not doing anything to hedge"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":455.043,"endTime":458.763,"body":"against that, you're putting yourself in"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":458.763,"endTime":462.903,"body":"a very bad spot, because if your income,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":458.763,"endTime":462.903,"body":"like you said, if your income's not"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":462.993,"endTime":468.973,"body":"changing, if your income's not increasing,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":462.993,"endTime":468.973,"body":"you are losing money every single year."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":469.123,"endTime":472.213,"body":"Now, I'd like to talk about one of"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":469.123,"endTime":472.213,"body":"the things that you mentioned, it was"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":472.213,"endTime":474.416,"body":"called the income maximization strategy."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":474.511,"endTime":477.651,"body":"I think that is a topic that my"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":474.511,"endTime":477.651,"body":"listeners would probably really be"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":477.651,"endTime":481.896,"body":"interested in because I think even,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":477.651,"endTime":481.896,"body":"I would love to maximize my income."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":481.923,"endTime":483.033,"body":"What are ways to do that?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":483.034,"endTime":486.814,"body":"Mark, if you could share with us, what"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":483.034,"endTime":486.814,"body":"is the income maximization strategy?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":486.935,"endTime":491.015,"body":"Imagine if you could always"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":486.935,"endTime":491.015,"body":"have income, even if you ran out of money."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":491.261,"endTime":492.431,"body":"Let that sink in for a minute."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":492.551,"endTime":496.751,"body":"How could we possibly continue to"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":492.551,"endTime":496.751,"body":"get uninterrupted income, mailbox"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":496.751,"endTime":500.561,"body":"money, even if we ran out of cash,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":496.751,"endTime":500.561,"body":"we'd never run out of income."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":500.861,"endTime":504.461,"body":"And what if there was guarantees"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":500.861,"endTime":504.461,"body":"baked into that built around that"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":504.461,"endTime":507.011,"body":"protecting you from never being without?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":507.171,"endTime":512.741,"body":"I think most traditional average"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":507.171,"endTime":512.741,"body":"financial plans are designed for"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":513.011,"endTime":515.231,"body":"helping us climb up the mountain."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":515.351,"endTime":518.911,"body":"So I want us to picture Mount Everest for"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":515.351,"endTime":518.911,"body":"a minute or any mountain in Hawaii, I've"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":518.911,"endTime":523.582,"body":"been to Hawaii the big island and the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":518.911,"endTime":523.582,"body":"incredible mountain climbing that gets"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":523.582,"endTime":527.272,"body":"to be done there and the trails I get"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":523.582,"endTime":527.272,"body":"to go on there, it's just breathtaking."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":527.572,"endTime":531.229,"body":"And my wife and I, we actually fell"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":527.572,"endTime":531.229,"body":"in love  in Japan and we fell in love,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":531.229,"endTime":536.535,"body":"going up the Mount Fuji and going"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":531.229,"endTime":536.535,"body":"up Mount Fuji was an incredibly like"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":536.835,"endTime":540.86,"body":"breathtaking experience, literally,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":536.835,"endTime":540.86,"body":"it took my breath because it was a"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":540.86,"endTime":542.72,"body":"big exercise to get up the mountain."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":543.02,"endTime":547.43,"body":"But I'll tell you, Mike, it"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":543.02,"endTime":547.43,"body":"was death defying coming down."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":547.73,"endTime":550.58,"body":"I really felt like on several"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":547.73,"endTime":550.58,"body":"occasions that I was going to"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":550.58,"endTime":552.77,"body":"die coming down that mountain."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":553.07,"endTime":559.504,"body":"And then in fact, 90% of deaths on Mount"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":553.07,"endTime":559.504,"body":"Everest are descending down the mountain."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":559.804,"endTime":560.164,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":560.164,"endTime":564.244,"body":"So the first people to probably"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":560.164,"endTime":564.244,"body":"summit Mount Everest were in the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":564.244,"endTime":566.284,"body":"1920s, somewhere around 1923."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":566.284,"endTime":569.158,"body":"There was a crew of people that"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":566.284,"endTime":569.158,"body":"went up the mountain, but we"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":569.158,"endTime":570.278,"body":"never heard from them again."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":570.472,"endTime":573.694,"body":"They were last seen at the highest"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":570.472,"endTime":573.694,"body":"base camp and everyone thinks"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":573.694,"endTime":577.024,"body":"they probably made it to the top,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":573.694,"endTime":577.024,"body":"but they never came back down."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":577.174,"endTime":577.94,"body":"So we don't know."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":577.94,"endTime":582.057,"body":"The first people to successfully summit"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":577.94,"endTime":582.057,"body":"and return back down to base camp."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":582.207,"endTime":583.917,"body":"I believe it was in the 1940s."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":584.097,"endTime":586.557,"body":"You'll have to correct me that,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":584.097,"endTime":586.557,"body":"and I'm someone online's gonna find"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":586.557,"endTime":590.217,"body":"this, but it was almost 20 years"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":586.557,"endTime":590.217,"body":"later after the original pair that"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":590.217,"endTime":591.447,"body":"might have made it to the top."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":591.597,"endTime":593.097,"body":"What does this have to do with finance?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":593.397,"endTime":599.14,"body":"The game of finance for most investment"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":593.397,"endTime":599.14,"body":"advisors, most average financial planners"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":599.38,"endTime":604.3,"body":"is to help you climb up that mountain to"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":599.38,"endTime":604.3,"body":"get you assets under their management."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":604.3,"endTime":605.364,"body":"That's literally what they call it."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":605.364,"endTime":610.494,"body":"Your assets under their management,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":605.364,"endTime":610.494,"body":"and they'll happily charge you a fee"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":610.794,"endTime":612.834,"body":"to help you climb up the mountain."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":613.074,"endTime":613.404,"body":"Okay?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":613.404,"endTime":617.097,"body":"So the larger your 401k gets"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":613.404,"endTime":617.097,"body":"the larger their fee gets."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":617.397,"endTime":620.259,"body":"And by the way, come down  if there's"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":617.397,"endTime":620.259,"body":"an earthquake on the mountain going"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":620.259,"endTime":622.059,"body":"up, they still get paid a fee."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":622.149,"endTime":627.039,"body":"Even if you're losing, like we have"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":622.149,"endTime":627.039,"body":"this year 15, 20, or more percent."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":627.099,"endTime":628.569,"body":"So they're the ones with the guarantee."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":628.569,"endTime":630.069,"body":"You're the ones with the volatility."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":630.279,"endTime":635.229,"body":"But nevertheless, we're climbing up"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":630.279,"endTime":635.229,"body":"that mountain and the game plan, the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":635.229,"endTime":637.309,"body":"goal is get to the highest point, right?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":637.315,"endTime":638.515,"body":"Plant your flag on the summit."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":638.545,"endTime":639.365,"body":"That's the goal, right?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":639.515,"endTime":641.92,"body":"That's what everyone says,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":639.515,"endTime":641.92,"body":"but no, that's not the goal."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":642.088,"endTime":646.408,"body":"The real goal in my opinion, as a"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":642.088,"endTime":646.408,"body":"certified financial planner, is to"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":646.408,"endTime":649.978,"body":"get back down the mountain safely and"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":646.408,"endTime":649.978,"body":"plant your flag back down at base camp."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":650.278,"endTime":652.288,"body":"And nobody's talking about that, man."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":652.588,"endTime":655.888,"body":"No one has a game plan for"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":652.588,"endTime":655.888,"body":"people's retirement spending."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":656.188,"endTime":660.148,"body":"We have a accumulation plan, but"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":656.188,"endTime":660.148,"body":"no, one's got a distribution plan."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":660.448,"endTime":666.118,"body":"And what's the point of accumulating a"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":660.448,"endTime":666.118,"body":"10 million bucks in a 401k, if we have"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":666.118,"endTime":671.848,"body":"no real safety plan for getting out of"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":666.118,"endTime":671.848,"body":"that, like getting down the mountain."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":672.148,"endTime":676.408,"body":"So the income maximization"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":672.148,"endTime":676.408,"body":"strategy is a response to what I"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":676.408,"endTime":681.928,"body":"saw was a big gap in the plan for"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":676.408,"endTime":681.928,"body":"people's retirement income needs."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":682.078,"endTime":685.688,"body":"So that's it, on a high level what's"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":682.078,"endTime":685.688,"body":"the problem, so you asked what is the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":685.688,"endTime":689.228,"body":"income maximization strategy and I'll"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":685.688,"endTime":689.228,"body":"Blab on for a few more minutes and then"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":689.228,"endTime":690.608,"body":"I'll hush and get your feedback, man."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":690.908,"endTime":694.562,"body":"But all so now here we are, we're at the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":690.908,"endTime":694.562,"body":"top of the mountain, whatever happened"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":694.567,"endTime":697.87,"body":"to get you to that point, you've been"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":694.567,"endTime":697.87,"body":"maxing out or you've been contributing"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":697.87,"endTime":702.29,"body":"to your 401k, you've got an IRA or a"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":697.87,"endTime":702.29,"body":"Roth IRA or whatever, and let's say"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":702.29,"endTime":704.18,"body":"you've got, I'll just pick a easy number."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":704.18,"endTime":707.24,"body":"Let's say you've got a million"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":704.18,"endTime":707.24,"body":"bucks in your retirement accounts."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":707.54,"endTime":711.74,"body":"You're 65 years old at that point,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":707.54,"endTime":711.74,"body":"you're ready to punch out for the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":711.74,"endTime":715.22,"body":"last time at the day job, what"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":711.74,"endTime":715.22,"body":"is the right amount of money?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":715.52,"endTime":719.3,"body":"According to best research that"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":715.52,"endTime":719.3,"body":"you can spend out of that million"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":719.305,"endTime":720.544,"body":"bucks, do you feel wealthy?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":720.544,"endTime":724.244,"body":"You got a seven figure you're in the two"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":720.544,"endTime":724.244,"body":"comic club, you got seven figures, right?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":724.304,"endTime":725.144,"body":"A million bucks."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":725.444,"endTime":728.024,"body":"What is the safe amount of money"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":725.444,"endTime":728.024,"body":"that you can take out of that"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":728.024,"endTime":731.439,"body":"401k this year and never run out"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":728.024,"endTime":731.439,"body":"of money as long as you live."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":731.685,"endTime":732.585,"body":"Anyone answer that question."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":732.585,"endTime":734.333,"body":"You always"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":732.585,"endTime":734.333,"body":"hear people say 4%, right?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":734.633,"endTime":735.733,"body":"Everybody's a safe number."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":735.804,"endTime":736.044,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":736.344,"endTime":741.102,"body":"And that has a a longstanding there's"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":736.344,"endTime":741.102,"body":"a tradition around 4%, but the best"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":741.102,"endTime":745.132,"body":"research that was done in the nineties"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":741.102,"endTime":745.132,"body":"back when interest rates were a lot"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":745.132,"endTime":746.782,"body":"higher bond rates were a lot higher."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":746.932,"endTime":750.087,"body":"And it's a tradition that's held on,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":746.932,"endTime":750.087,"body":"it's one of those sacred cows in finance"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":750.087,"endTime":751.507,"body":"that they have to be tipped over."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":751.536,"endTime":753.936,"body":"I spent some time in Texas, we"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":751.536,"endTime":753.936,"body":"did some sacred cow tipping."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":753.966,"endTime":754.862,"body":"Let's just say that  alright."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":755.033,"endTime":759.203,"body":"So best research today and a way"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":755.033,"endTime":759.203,"body":"to go man, for coming up with 4%."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":759.363,"endTime":763.323,"body":"But the best research, according to"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":759.363,"endTime":763.323,"body":"Wade Pfau who's a PhD in retirement"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":763.328,"endTime":767.644,"body":"research, the best research from David"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":763.328,"endTime":767.644,"body":"Blanchett, who is one of the head of"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":767.644,"endTime":769.414,"body":"retirement researchers at Morningstar."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":769.493,"endTime":773.603,"body":"Some of the best minds and"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":769.493,"endTime":773.603,"body":"finance are now telling us 2.8%"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":773.843,"endTime":775.133,"body":"is the right number to pull."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":775.289,"endTime":776.789,"body":"Now, is that a big deal?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":776.819,"endTime":778.169,"body":"4%, 2.8."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":778.169,"endTime":781.979,"body":"Doesn't sound like a big deal, but if"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":778.169,"endTime":781.979,"body":"you had a million bucks to your name"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":782.069,"endTime":786.006,"body":"and it's time to retire,  you have a"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":782.069,"endTime":786.006,"body":"wonderful life at 28,000 bucks a year."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":786.156,"endTime":788.196,"body":"And that'd be before taxes, by the way."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":788.196,"endTime":790.866,"body":"So after taxes, we're looking"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":788.196,"endTime":790.866,"body":"at maybe 20, what do you want?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":790.926,"endTime":794.166,"body":"22,000 bucks, right there,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":790.926,"endTime":794.166,"body":"is that the millionaire"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":794.166,"endTime":795.636,"body":"lifestyle we've come to expect?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":795.786,"endTime":797.286,"body":"Can we even live on 20 grand?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":797.317,"endTime":799.116,"body":"I wouldn't think"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":797.317,"endTime":799.116,"body":"that, if you're classifying yourself"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":799.116,"endTime":804.066,"body":"as a millionaire, living off of $22,000"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":799.116,"endTime":804.066,"body":"a year is probably not what you had in"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":804.066,"endTime":805.746,"body":"mind when it came to your retirement."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":806.046,"endTime":807.156,"body":"Right, yes."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":807.426,"endTime":807.636,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":807.636,"endTime":808.326,"body":"I'm with you on that."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":808.326,"endTime":812.164,"body":"It's shockingly inefficient to"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":808.326,"endTime":812.164,"body":"spend your stock market portfolio,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":812.464,"endTime":813.904,"body":"even if it's conservatively invest."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":813.904,"endTime":817.644,"body":"In fact, it's worse if it's conservatively"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":813.904,"endTime":817.644,"body":"invested, cuz now we can't rely"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":817.644,"endTime":820.434,"body":"on equities to help give you that"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":817.644,"endTime":820.434,"body":"yield as you go into retirement."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":820.734,"endTime":823.884,"body":"So we're looking at somewhere"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":820.734,"endTime":823.884,"body":"around two and a half to 3% of"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":823.884,"endTime":825.324,"body":"your money can be spent down."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":825.504,"endTime":829.554,"body":"And even then you have a one in 10 shot"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":825.504,"endTime":829.554,"body":"of running out of money, one in 10."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":829.854,"endTime":831.534,"body":"You cannot undo your retirement."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":831.834,"endTime":835.821,"body":"It's not like you can go back and fix"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":831.834,"endTime":835.821,"body":"it, if you mess it up, so I jokingly"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":835.821,"endTime":839.679,"body":"ask clients, I'll say, Hey, if there was"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":835.821,"endTime":839.679,"body":"a one in 10 that your airplane you're"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":839.684,"endTime":840.949,"body":"boarding right now was gonna crash."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":840.949,"endTime":843.956,"body":"If it was a one in 10 pilot gets on"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":840.949,"endTime":843.956,"body":"the air on the megaphone, Hey, just"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":843.956,"endTime":848.396,"body":"wanna let you know we've got a 90%"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":843.956,"endTime":848.396,"body":"success rate landing, these planes"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":848.572,"endTime":850.342,"body":"but one in 10 crashes and burns."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":850.582,"endTime":853.342,"body":"Would you stay on that airplane"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":850.582,"endTime":853.342,"body":"or would you get off immediately?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":853.642,"endTime":854.452,"body":"Of course I'd be off outside."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":854.612,"endTime":855.855,"body":"I don't"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":854.612,"endTime":855.855,"body":"think that's a flight I would"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":856.035,"endTime":857.062,"body":"be comfortable getting on."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":857.362,"endTime":857.487,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":857.647,"endTime":862.055,"body":"This is why so many people go on Medicaid"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":857.647,"endTime":862.055,"body":"in retirement homes and long-term care,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":862.145,"endTime":865.295,"body":"cuz they've blown through their savings"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":862.145,"endTime":865.295,"body":"and now they have this mega problem"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":865.295,"endTime":866.968,"body":"in retirement in their final years."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":866.988,"endTime":870.685,"body":"It's why so many people rely on their"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":866.988,"endTime":870.685,"body":"kids, it's why so many people have social"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":870.685,"endTime":872.935,"body":"security as their primary or only income."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":873.126,"endTime":874.276,"body":"It's a shame, it's too bad."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":874.302,"endTime":876.517,"body":"These are the golden"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":874.302,"endTime":876.517,"body":"years of your life, right?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":876.517,"endTime":879.718,"body":"And you're that dependent on a,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":876.517,"endTime":879.718,"body":"on things that you can't control."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":880.018,"endTime":885.237,"body":"So anyway, the income maximization"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":880.018,"endTime":885.237,"body":"strategy uses contractual wealth rather"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":885.237,"endTime":887.337,"body":"than stock market profits and losses."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":887.637,"endTime":888.987,"body":"It uses the contract."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":889.167,"endTime":893.727,"body":"It uses a contract to build an"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":889.167,"endTime":893.727,"body":"income that you cannot outlive."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":893.901,"endTime":897.591,"body":"It uses a contract to pay you"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":893.901,"endTime":897.591,"body":"an income that has the potential"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":897.596,"endTime":899.511,"body":"to give you increasing income."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":899.811,"endTime":900.651,"body":"Throughout retirement."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":900.921,"endTime":905.931,"body":"So rather than your 22 grand whatever"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":900.921,"endTime":905.931,"body":"of income, you might start at 50"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":905.931,"endTime":909.471,"body":"grand or 60 grand, and then they"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":905.931,"endTime":909.471,"body":"pay you an increase off of that."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":909.591,"endTime":914.601,"body":"So your 50 grand becomes 52 grand"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":909.591,"endTime":914.601,"body":"becomes 56 grand becomes $60,000"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":914.606,"endTime":918.081,"body":"every year as you go throughout"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":914.606,"endTime":918.081,"body":"retirement, it keeps up with inflation."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":918.381,"endTime":922.011,"body":"So you can keep getting that full bag"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":918.381,"endTime":922.011,"body":"of groceries into your retirement years."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":922.041,"endTime":925.642,"body":"You can keep playing with the grandkids"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":922.041,"endTime":925.642,"body":"and taking 'em to, to the Disney world"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":925.642,"endTime":930.155,"body":"destinations and so forth that to me"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":925.642,"endTime":930.155,"body":"sounds like a better  pathway down"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":930.175,"endTime":933.985,"body":"mount retirement, where we're not having"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":930.175,"endTime":933.985,"body":"to worry about running outta cash."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":934.285,"endTime":934.525,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":934.525,"endTime":937.443,"body":"So you say it's called a"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":934.525,"endTime":937.443,"body":"contractual wealth, right?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":937.443,"endTime":939.028,"body":"So you're doing it based off a contract."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":939.047,"endTime":940.746,"body":"What kind of contract"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":939.047,"endTime":940.746,"body":"are you talking about?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":940.746,"endTime":944.889,"body":"Contracts in principle"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":940.746,"endTime":944.889,"body":"are the basis for civilization, right?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":944.919,"endTime":948.666,"body":"I'm gonna start at 30,000 feet and"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":944.919,"endTime":948.666,"body":"we'll come right down to runway levels."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":948.666,"endTime":950.343,"body":"Start"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":948.666,"endTime":950.343,"body":"at the peak of the mountain."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":950.343,"endTime":950.85,"body":"There you go, man."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":951.0,"endTime":951.18,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":951.18,"endTime":955.56,"body":"So at the highest level, without"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":951.18,"endTime":955.56,"body":"a contract, we're toast as a"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":955.56,"endTime":957.032,"body":"civilization, think about it."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":957.032,"endTime":958.835,"body":"I was talking to a guy"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":957.032,"endTime":958.835,"body":"who's a client of mine."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":958.835,"endTime":962.739,"body":"He's got 10 rental properties, he was"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":958.835,"endTime":962.739,"body":"working on his tile and grout while I was"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":962.744,"endTime":964.959,"body":"talking to him about his financial life."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":965.019,"endTime":967.479,"body":"All of his wealth was"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":965.019,"endTime":967.479,"body":"in these 10 properties."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":967.779,"endTime":971.019,"body":"He had paid him off, no mortgage"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":967.779,"endTime":971.019,"body":"making good income off of it."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":971.319,"endTime":975.453,"body":"And I asked him, I said first of all,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":971.319,"endTime":975.453,"body":"congratulations making it to this point."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":975.51,"endTime":978.392,"body":"What is it about the real estate"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":975.51,"endTime":978.392,"body":"that makes it, secure for you?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":978.42,"endTime":980.455,"body":"We said, Hey, there's no value guarantee."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":980.455,"endTime":981.947,"body":"House prices can go up and down."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":982.097,"endTime":984.947,"body":"What is it that truly"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":982.097,"endTime":984.947,"body":"makes real estate real?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":985.247,"endTime":985.667,"body":"What is it?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":985.937,"endTime":989.327,"body":"And we had to think about it for"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":985.937,"endTime":989.327,"body":"a while, but it's the contract."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":989.627,"endTime":990.587,"body":"It's the contract."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":990.887,"endTime":993.767,"body":"If you don't have a contract"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":990.887,"endTime":993.767,"body":"with the property that you own,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":994.067,"endTime":995.267,"body":"all you have is squatter, right?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":995.567,"endTime":998.867,"body":"Anybody with the bigger shotgun can"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":995.567,"endTime":998.867,"body":"come and take that property from"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":998.867,"endTime":1003.812,"body":"you and the renter in that property"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":998.867,"endTime":1003.812,"body":"that he had has a contract with him."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1003.817,"endTime":1004.832,"body":"He's the landlord there."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1005.132,"endTime":1007.772,"body":"He has a contract with that"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1005.132,"endTime":1007.772,"body":"land, with that tenant to get"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1007.772,"endTime":1008.822,"body":"a check every month, right?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1009.097,"endTime":1013.037,"body":"Without the contract, all we have is"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1009.097,"endTime":1013.037,"body":"squatters rights and the same is true"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1013.037,"endTime":1015.887,"body":"with other contractual financial tools."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1016.187,"endTime":1019.827,"body":"Now, there are no contracts"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1016.187,"endTime":1019.827,"body":"with stocks, bonds, mutual"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1019.827,"endTime":1022.357,"body":"funds, index funds ,hedge funds."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1022.539,"endTime":1023.709,"body":"The list goes on and on, right?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1023.709,"endTime":1027.459,"body":"That's mainly paper profits going"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1023.709,"endTime":1027.459,"body":"up and down your personal home."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1027.759,"endTime":1031.389,"body":"There's no contract, except maybe you"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1027.759,"endTime":1031.389,"body":"might say the deed on your property, but"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1031.389,"endTime":1034.943,"body":"it's not I don't know if it's different"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1031.389,"endTime":1034.943,"body":"in Hawaii, but there's no ATM on my house."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1034.955,"endTime":1037.185,"body":"So I'm not being paid"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1034.955,"endTime":1037.185,"body":"to live in this house."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1037.23,"endTime":1040.79,"body":"But you want contractual wealth that"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1037.23,"endTime":1040.79,"body":"pays you an income that's written"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1040.79,"endTime":1042.403,"body":"right in the black and white word."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1042.703,"endTime":1044.383,"body":"That's committed to you, right?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1044.383,"endTime":1046.673,"body":"That's contractual, guaranteed income."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1046.823,"endTime":1049.373,"body":"Annuities are another"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1046.823,"endTime":1049.373,"body":"form of guaranteed income."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1049.563,"endTime":1051.513,"body":"And in fact, I'll tell you a quick story."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1051.813,"endTime":1056.013,"body":"I was at a museum here in Chicago, it's"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1051.813,"endTime":1056.013,"body":"called the ancient Oriental Institute."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1056.313,"endTime":1058.683,"body":"And I was walking down"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1056.313,"endTime":1058.683,"body":"the halls of this museum."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1058.683,"endTime":1063.663,"body":", I'm a nerd for like ancient, like"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1058.683,"endTime":1063.663,"body":"archeology stuff, like mummies and"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1063.873,"endTime":1066.093,"body":"tablets of stone and uniform tablets."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1066.38,"endTime":1067.46,"body":"I'm big into that sort of thing."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1067.76,"endTime":1073.1,"body":"So I was there geeking out and along"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1067.76,"endTime":1073.1,"body":"the wall was this big parchment paper."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1073.1,"endTime":1074.1,"body":"It was about 20 feet long."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1074.25,"endTime":1077.94,"body":"And it had this old cool, like"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1074.25,"endTime":1077.94,"body":"ancient script written on it."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1077.94,"endTime":1084.469,"body":"Egyptian style, Sumerian script and"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1077.94,"endTime":1084.469,"body":"underneath it, I think it, it was 324 BC."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1084.469,"endTime":1088.19,"body":"And it said annuity contract"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1084.469,"endTime":1088.19,"body":"from 2300 years ago, Mike."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1088.49,"endTime":1093.034,"body":"And that just melted my brain to think"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1088.49,"endTime":1093.034,"body":"that was somebody got paid a guaranteed"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1093.034,"endTime":1095.014,"body":"income for the rest of his or her life."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1095.314,"endTime":1097.742,"body":"It's probably a soldier,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1095.314,"endTime":1097.742,"body":"Alexander The Great's army."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1098.042,"endTime":1100.712,"body":"And he was probably just"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1098.042,"endTime":1100.712,"body":"getting his pension, right?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1100.892,"endTime":1104.972,"body":"So annuities, pensions, they've"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1100.892,"endTime":1104.972,"body":"been around for thousands of years."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1105.272,"endTime":1109.832,"body":"And I cannot believe that they're not"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1105.272,"endTime":1109.832,"body":"more regularly used today as a certified"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1109.837,"endTime":1113.432,"body":"financial planner it seems like it's in"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1109.837,"endTime":1113.432,"body":"the best interest of at least some of"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1113.432,"endTime":1118.802,"body":"your income to get a contractual portion"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1113.432,"endTime":1118.802,"body":"of your income, that's guaranteed to come"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1118.802,"endTime":1122.605,"body":"to you no matter what's happening, your"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1118.802,"endTime":1122.605,"body":"stock portfolio or real estate portfolio."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1122.755,"endTime":1125.185,"body":"I was talking to the same"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1122.755,"endTime":1125.185,"body":"guy that I mentioned earlier."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1125.425,"endTime":1130.165,"body":"And we talked about how annuities are"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1125.425,"endTime":1130.165,"body":"like a renter that always pays on time."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1130.465,"endTime":1133.345,"body":"And that to me sounds like at"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1130.465,"endTime":1133.345,"body":"least a little bit of relief."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1133.645,"endTime":1137.785,"body":"So anyway, part of the income maximization"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1133.645,"endTime":1137.785,"body":"strategy, it's not the whole thing, but"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1137.785,"endTime":1141.925,"body":"part of it is incorporating annuities,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1137.785,"endTime":1141.925,"body":"modern ones, not the old fashioned ones,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1142.225,"endTime":1145.27,"body":"cuz there's some old school annuities"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1142.225,"endTime":1145.27,"body":"that I wouldn't recommend, but and we"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1145.27,"endTime":1146.584,"body":"can get into that if you want to Mike."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1146.624,"endTime":1150.964,"body":"Modernized annuities that give you"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1146.624,"endTime":1150.964,"body":"flexible income with increasing income."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1151.027,"endTime":1155.797,"body":"If possible, that help you offset the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1151.027,"endTime":1155.797,"body":"deal of inflation, but that never run out"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1155.797,"endTime":1157.757,"body":"of income, even if you run out of money."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1157.907,"endTime":1158.147,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1158.147,"endTime":1162.792,"body":"That's a great point and I never even"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1158.147,"endTime":1162.792,"body":"thought to think about annuities that"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1162.792,"endTime":1165.795,"body":"way, my in-laws have an annuity that"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1162.792,"endTime":1165.795,"body":"they're, that they have right now, which"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1165.795,"endTime":1166.995,"body":"is working out pretty good for them."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1167.275,"endTime":1169.945,"body":"My retirement pension from"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1167.275,"endTime":1169.945,"body":"the Navy is an annuity."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1169.963,"endTime":1171.664,"body":"That's that's pretty"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1169.963,"endTime":1171.664,"body":"interesting cuz you know what?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1171.964,"endTime":1174.806,"body":"You hear a lot of people say, oh"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1171.964,"endTime":1174.806,"body":"don't get into annuities, don't do it."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1174.811,"endTime":1177.772,"body":"You can spend your money"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1174.811,"endTime":1177.772,"body":"elsewhere and do other things."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1177.922,"endTime":1181.742,"body":"but those same people and I'm probably"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1177.922,"endTime":1181.742,"body":"one of them too, because I talk about"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1181.742,"endTime":1184.266,"body":"this all the time is, saying to invest"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1181.742,"endTime":1184.266,"body":"your money in real estate instead."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1184.321,"endTime":1187.151,"body":"But again, going back to what you're"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1184.321,"endTime":1187.151,"body":"saying, markets it's contractual,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1187.181,"endTime":1188.141,"body":"like what you said, right?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1188.411,"endTime":1191.29,"body":"So it's, you're doing the same thing,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1188.411,"endTime":1191.29,"body":"but this time you're putting a little"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1191.29,"endTime":1194.97,"body":"more effort into it because you are,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1191.29,"endTime":1194.97,"body":"you're having this contract with your"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1194.97,"endTime":1199.366,"body":"tenant to get paid every month where"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1194.97,"endTime":1199.366,"body":"with the annuity, it's just guaranteed."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1199.366,"endTime":1200.578,"body":"You do the contract one time."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1200.578,"endTime":1203.405,"body":"You don't have to sit here and"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1200.578,"endTime":1203.405,"body":"renew a lease or anything like that."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1203.405,"endTime":1205.452,"body":"So that's pretty interesting and"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1203.405,"endTime":1205.452,"body":"I never looked at it that way."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1205.516,"endTime":1207.888,"body":"Thank you for opening my eyes"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1205.516,"endTime":1207.888,"body":"to looking at it like that."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1207.895,"endTime":1208.585,"body":"Very interesting."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1208.615,"endTime":1208.885,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1208.892,"endTime":1213.333,"body":"Somebody let's say, cuz you said you"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1208.892,"endTime":1213.333,"body":"don't have to put all of your retirement"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1213.333,"endTime":1217.277,"body":"into that, you said you could put some,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1213.333,"endTime":1217.277,"body":"so would you recommend to somebody that"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1217.277,"endTime":1221.845,"body":"they diversify and say, Hey, put some here"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1217.277,"endTime":1221.845,"body":"into annuity, take the rest, keep it in"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1221.845,"endTime":1225.535,"body":"the stock market or maybe purchase some"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1221.845,"endTime":1225.535,"body":"real estate or different things like that,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1225.535,"endTime":1229.111,"body":"what would you say would be like your"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1225.535,"endTime":1229.111,"body":"traditional route for somebody that you"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1229.111,"endTime":1230.502,"body":"are advising with where they're gonna go?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1230.507,"endTime":1233.102,"body":"Let's say let's use that magic"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1230.507,"endTime":1233.102,"body":"number of a million dollars again."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1233.252,"endTime":1236.042,"body":"Would you tell somebody take that full"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1233.252,"endTime":1236.042,"body":"million and put it into an annuity?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1236.342,"endTime":1238.16,"body":"Or how would you have"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1236.342,"endTime":1238.16,"body":"them like split it up?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1238.17,"endTime":1239.52,"body":"It depends"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1238.17,"endTime":1239.52,"body":"on everyone's goals."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1239.52,"endTime":1241.502,"body":"That's the default CFP answer."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1241.546,"endTime":1243.258,"body":"It's like an adult diaper, it depends."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1243.307,"endTime":1245.707,"body":"Let's get a little better than"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1243.307,"endTime":1245.707,"body":"that, but that's the real answer."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1245.737,"endTime":1249.367,"body":"It would come down to us having a"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1245.737,"endTime":1249.367,"body":"one-on-one discussion over, over zoom"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1249.367,"endTime":1253.147,"body":"or over the phone to get to know you"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1249.367,"endTime":1253.147,"body":"and your risk tolerance and goals there."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1253.447,"endTime":1256.417,"body":"But let's say a portion of that"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1253.447,"endTime":1256.417,"body":"money went to an annuity and we"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1256.417,"endTime":1258.037,"body":"let it sit and grow for a while."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1258.337,"endTime":1261.907,"body":"Let's say that you had some other money"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1258.337,"endTime":1261.907,"body":"that you wanted to just sitting in cash"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1261.907,"endTime":1267.697,"body":"savings or whatever, and you put that"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1261.907,"endTime":1267.697,"body":"into another weird, old, strange financial"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1267.697,"endTime":1269.767,"body":"strategy known as bank on yourself."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1270.067,"endTime":1273.907,"body":"Bank on yourself is a using"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1270.067,"endTime":1273.907,"body":"another form of a contract, a life"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1273.907,"endTime":1275.527,"body":"insurance contract in this case."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1275.827,"endTime":1279.127,"body":"And that money goes into a"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1275.827,"endTime":1279.127,"body":"liquid bucket of money now."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1279.127,"endTime":1279.427,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1279.727,"endTime":1281.227,"body":"Again, I gotta just back up for a minute."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1281.527,"endTime":1286.266,"body":"Life insurance can be term insurance that"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1281.527,"endTime":1286.266,"body":"we rent for a while, or it can be whole"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1286.271,"endTime":1288.486,"body":"life insurance that we own for life."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1288.786,"endTime":1294.276,"body":"And if you own your policy, your life"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1288.786,"endTime":1294.276,"body":"insurance policy, it has a contractual"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1294.576,"endTime":1299.071,"body":"cash value a wealth account it's"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1294.576,"endTime":1299.071,"body":"called a cash value and it's money"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1299.071,"endTime":1302.809,"body":"that you can access on this side of"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1299.071,"endTime":1302.809,"body":"heaven on this side of the grass, that"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1302.809,"endTime":1306.259,"body":"you can use for anything you want,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1302.809,"endTime":1306.259,"body":"including purchasing real estate."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1306.559,"endTime":1310.999,"body":"And if it's designed for cash value,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1306.559,"endTime":1310.999,"body":"instead of insurance, death benefit and"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1310.999,"endTime":1315.889,"body":"commissions, if we designed it heavily"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1310.999,"endTime":1315.889,"body":"toward the cash value side of that"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1315.889,"endTime":1321.379,"body":"contract, you can have significant cash in"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1315.889,"endTime":1321.379,"body":"the first month or month of this policy."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1321.679,"endTime":1324.523,"body":"Like I had a guy just dump in"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1321.679,"endTime":1324.523,"body":"several hundred thousand dollars"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1324.523,"endTime":1326.203,"body":"into one of these policies last week."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1326.203,"endTime":1326.863,"body":"He's a great guy."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1327.041,"endTime":1330.761,"body":"And he's borrowing it out next week"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1327.041,"endTime":1330.761,"body":"to do a closing on a real estate deal."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1331.061,"endTime":1332.453,"body":"Now that's cool."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1332.693,"endTime":1335.753,"body":"So the policy is liquid and available."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1335.813,"endTime":1337.223,"body":"Why wouldn't he just pick cash for that?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1337.283,"endTime":1338.273,"body":"Some people might ask."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1338.349,"endTime":1341.439,"body":"When you put money into life insurance,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1338.349,"endTime":1341.439,"body":"if it's designed the bank on yourself,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1341.444,"endTime":1345.969,"body":"way in it, and 99% of life insurance,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1341.444,"endTime":1345.969,"body":"it's not designed this particular way, but"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1345.969,"endTime":1347.999,"body":"if we design it correctly it just works."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1348.059,"endTime":1350.669,"body":"So you put the money into this"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1348.059,"endTime":1350.669,"body":"policy, you borrow it out."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1350.969,"endTime":1354.989,"body":"When you do that borrowing,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1350.969,"endTime":1354.989,"body":"the policy will continue to"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1354.989,"endTime":1356.925,"body":"grow as if there was no loan."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1357.225,"endTime":1361.635,"body":"And so if I had $200,000 of cash value"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1357.225,"endTime":1361.635,"body":"in my life insurance policy designed"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1361.635,"endTime":1365.895,"body":"this bank on yourself way, and I borrow"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1361.635,"endTime":1365.895,"body":"out, let's say 150 grand to do a down"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1365.895,"endTime":1368.355,"body":"payment on a whatever, on a property."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1368.655,"endTime":1373.845,"body":"Then my policy that year will still"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1368.655,"endTime":1373.845,"body":"pay me on all 200,000 bucks even"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1373.845,"endTime":1375.375,"body":"the 150 that I had borrowed out."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1375.675,"endTime":1379.215,"body":"And I've got the real estate deal"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1375.675,"endTime":1379.215,"body":"with all the tax advantages and cash"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1379.215,"endTime":1380.595,"body":"flow that comes from the real estate."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1380.895,"endTime":1384.525,"body":"And I might still have my annuity"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1380.895,"endTime":1384.525,"body":"providing me a guaranteed income."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1384.525,"endTime":1388.736,"body":"So even if my apartment building fails"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1384.525,"endTime":1388.736,"body":"or all, or the government, puts another"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1388.736,"endTime":1393.823,"body":"restriction on landlords collecting rent"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1388.736,"endTime":1393.823,"body":"again, yikes, then I've got, still got"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1393.823,"endTime":1398.473,"body":"the contract for my annuity to diversify"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1393.823,"endTime":1398.473,"body":"my income streams and I've got the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1398.473,"endTime":1402.763,"body":"policy, the life insurance policy still"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1398.473,"endTime":1402.763,"body":"growing, even as if I'd never borrowed"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1402.763,"endTime":1404.132,"body":"the money for the real estate at all."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1404.282,"endTime":1406.622,"body":"And some people might get"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1404.282,"endTime":1406.622,"body":"hung up in the word borrow."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1406.712,"endTime":1410.582,"body":"Yes, you can borrow from these"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1406.712,"endTime":1410.582,"body":"policies, but you are in essence,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1410.852,"endTime":1412.052,"body":"your own source of financing."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1412.352,"endTime":1416.222,"body":"So you get to decide how,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1412.352,"endTime":1416.222,"body":"when you repay that loan."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1416.522,"endTime":1419.792,"body":"So Mike, if let's say the renters,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1416.522,"endTime":1419.792,"body":"stop paying your rent, you can"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1419.792,"endTime":1421.532,"body":"skip payments on the policy loan."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1421.682,"endTime":1422.762,"body":"It's a loan to yourself."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1422.762,"endTime":1425.432,"body":"It's how I ended up paying off"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1422.762,"endTime":1425.432,"body":"all my student loans by the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1425.432,"endTime":1428.132,"body":"way, I used the policy to wipe"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1425.432,"endTime":1428.132,"body":"out all my student loan debt."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1428.282,"endTime":1432.867,"body":"And as I paid it all off, the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1428.282,"endTime":1432.867,"body":"power was, I got the asset was"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1432.867,"endTime":1434.607,"body":"continuing to grow for my retirement."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1434.757,"endTime":1438.507,"body":"So this gives us some liquidity"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1434.757,"endTime":1438.507,"body":"and again, the cash value"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1438.507,"endTime":1440.337,"body":"grows on a guaranteed basis."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1440.637,"endTime":1445.317,"body":"So between the contract of the life"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1440.637,"endTime":1445.317,"body":"insurance and its ability to be used for"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1445.317,"endTime":1450.507,"body":"all the other stuff in life, real estate"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1445.317,"endTime":1450.507,"body":"deals, crypto, buying land in Mexico for"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1450.512,"endTime":1453.807,"body":"the next factory that's gonna get built"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1450.512,"endTime":1453.807,"body":"or whatever you wanna build or do with"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1453.807,"endTime":1457.647,"body":"your life, send your kid to college.,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1453.807,"endTime":1457.647,"body":"The cash value in the life insurance is"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1457.647,"endTime":1459.597,"body":"there for all of your liquid needs today."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1459.897,"endTime":1463.467,"body":"The Annuity is there as a"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1459.897,"endTime":1463.467,"body":"stream of guaranteed protected"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1463.467,"endTime":1464.847,"body":"income for the future."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1465.147,"endTime":1466.227,"body":"And there's one more piece."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1466.227,"endTime":1468.848,"body":"And so I'm gonna make your make"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1466.227,"endTime":1468.848,"body":"you wait for the last piece of"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1468.848,"endTime":1471.758,"body":"this income maximization strategy,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1468.848,"endTime":1471.758,"body":"but I better hush here first."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1471.908,"endTime":1475.058,"body":"Any feedback or thoughts on"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1471.908,"endTime":1475.058,"body":"the step two with using the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1475.063,"endTime":1476.498,"body":"bank on yourself type policies?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1476.798,"endTime":1476.978,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1476.978,"endTime":1478.178,"body":"Yeah, I absolutely love that."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1478.208,"endTime":1482.084,"body":"I've heard about this a lot, the infinite"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1478.208,"endTime":1482.084,"body":"banking strategies, another name for it."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1482.117,"endTime":1485.413,"body":"Yeah I have I have two permanent life"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1482.117,"endTime":1485.413,"body":"insurance policies, myself, one on me"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1485.418,"endTime":1488.761,"body":"and one of my wife and we've, that's"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1485.418,"endTime":1488.761,"body":"like one of our little safety nets that"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1488.766,"endTime":1491.626,"body":"we always know we can borrow from that"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1488.766,"endTime":1491.626,"body":"if we need to and that's pretty neat."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1491.626,"endTime":1494.956,"body":"Cause I also do velocity banking"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1491.626,"endTime":1494.956,"body":"with a HELOC on my primary home."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1494.995,"endTime":1498.625,"body":"So I've been using that to, to invest"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1494.995,"endTime":1498.625,"body":"in more real estate and also pay down"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1498.625,"endTime":1500.725,"body":"debt while I'm like chunking it down."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1500.776,"endTime":1505.026,"body":"It's very interesting and, It's just, it"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1500.776,"endTime":1505.026,"body":"just goes to show the creativity someone"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1505.026,"endTime":1508.986,"body":"can have when it comes to building"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1505.026,"endTime":1508.986,"body":"up a retirement portfolio or just how"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1508.986,"endTime":1510.696,"body":"they wanna invest in different assets."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1510.966,"endTime":1514.896,"body":"There's so many different ways and so"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1510.966,"endTime":1514.896,"body":"many different strategies that somebody"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1514.896,"endTime":1517.116,"body":"can utilize with this being one of them."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1517.266,"endTime":1520.452,"body":"And I know a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1517.266,"endTime":1520.452,"body":"that do the infinite banking"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1520.452,"endTime":1521.982,"body":"strategy or banking on yourself."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1522.065,"endTime":1523.494,"body":"They, it's, you get to double."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1523.544,"endTime":1527.804,"body":"It's a beautiful thing because you're"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1523.544,"endTime":1527.804,"body":"still getting that the interest from"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1527.804,"endTime":1530.443,"body":"the from the life insurance the cash"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1527.804,"endTime":1530.443,"body":"value of the life insurance that"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1530.443,"endTime":1533.877,"body":"you have, right at the same rate"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1530.443,"endTime":1533.877,"body":"as if you didn't borrow that money."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1534.177,"endTime":1538.707,"body":"And at the same time, if you borrow"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1534.177,"endTime":1538.707,"body":"that money to buy a cash flowing asset,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1539.007,"endTime":1544.187,"body":"you now have two ways that you're"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1539.007,"endTime":1544.187,"body":"bringing money in based off of that."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1544.187,"endTime":1546.497,"body":"So that's a, it's a pretty"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1544.187,"endTime":1546.497,"body":"amazing strategy for sure."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1546.497,"endTime":1546.707,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1546.757,"endTime":1549.494,"body":"And I know a lot of people have"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1546.757,"endTime":1549.494,"body":"recently, not so much this year"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1549.494,"endTime":1552.418,"body":"with all the interest rates"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1549.494,"endTime":1552.418,"body":"going up, but it gets really fun."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1552.688,"endTime":1556.436,"body":"So all of a sudden you can take, for"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1552.688,"endTime":1556.436,"body":"example let's say that you have a a"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1556.436,"endTime":1561.446,"body":"nice property and you do a cash out"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1556.436,"endTime":1561.446,"body":"refinance and you get 250,000 bucks"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1561.746,"endTime":1563.126,"body":"that you need to do something with."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1563.336,"endTime":1565.056,"body":"You can choose what you wanna do with it."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1565.084,"endTime":1568.534,"body":"I have several clients where they"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1565.084,"endTime":1568.534,"body":"will alternate what they purchase."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1568.774,"endTime":1572.114,"body":"So they'll get that refi every couple"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1568.774,"endTime":1572.114,"body":"of years as long as interest rates"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1572.204,"endTime":1577.004,"body":"remain modest and the cash flow makes"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1572.204,"endTime":1577.004,"body":"sense, you can dump one cash out refi."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1577.009,"endTime":1579.314,"body":"Maybe it goes into a policy."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1579.614,"endTime":1583.424,"body":"So now you have your apartment still"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1579.614,"endTime":1583.424,"body":"doing its thing, and you have your policy,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1583.514,"endTime":1586.694,"body":"your life insurance now, and now you"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1583.514,"endTime":1586.694,"body":"can borrow against the life insurance"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1586.694,"endTime":1588.537,"body":"and buy a second apartment building."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1588.687,"endTime":1589.017,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1589.017,"endTime":1592.347,"body":"So that's one idea then let's say"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1589.017,"endTime":1592.347,"body":"a couple years later, four or five"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1592.347,"endTime":1596.247,"body":"years later, you do another cash out"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1592.347,"endTime":1596.247,"body":"refi on both apartment buildings."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1596.547,"endTime":1598.017,"body":"And this time you buy an annuity."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1598.317,"endTime":1599.177,"body":"Now, why would you do."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1599.477,"endTime":1600.707,"body":"Again, it's cash flow."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1600.767,"endTime":1601.907,"body":"Cash flow is king."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1602.207,"endTime":1605.927,"body":"You buy that annuity and it's just"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1602.207,"endTime":1605.927,"body":"there to lock in some of the income"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1606.192,"endTime":1608.122,"body":"and again, double dip, as you said."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1608.272,"endTime":1612.142,"body":"Lock in your future income someday"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1608.272,"endTime":1612.142,"body":"when you sell those rental properties,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1612.142,"endTime":1615.742,"body":"you still probably want to get the,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1612.142,"endTime":1615.742,"body":"what, if you could sell the apartment"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1615.742,"endTime":1620.422,"body":"building, get rid of the trash, the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1615.742,"endTime":1620.422,"body":"termites, the taxes the headaches,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1620.639,"endTime":1622.319,"body":"but you got to keep the rental income."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1622.409,"endTime":1623.099,"body":"What if you could do that?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1623.399,"endTime":1626.168,"body":"That's what we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1623.399,"endTime":1626.168,"body":"here, where every couple of years"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1626.348,"endTime":1630.098,"body":"you do a cash out refi, or you sell"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1626.348,"endTime":1630.098,"body":"your property while these prices are"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1630.098,"endTime":1633.576,"body":"still high, you sell property and"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1630.098,"endTime":1633.576,"body":"you put that money into an annuity."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1633.816,"endTime":1636.916,"body":"That's one idea for how you"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1633.816,"endTime":1636.916,"body":"could maximize your income."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1636.916,"endTime":1639.766,"body":"And I'll even say this as"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1636.916,"endTime":1639.766,"body":"another kind of creative idea."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1639.916,"endTime":1642.646,"body":"In recently I just did one of"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1639.916,"endTime":1642.646,"body":"these where I borrowed from my"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1642.646,"endTime":1644.236,"body":"life insurance to buy an annuity."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1644.536,"endTime":1646.126,"body":"So why would I do that?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1646.426,"endTime":1649.636,"body":"It sounds I borrowed from my"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1646.426,"endTime":1649.636,"body":"life insurance to buy an annuity."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1649.786,"endTime":1652.8,"body":"This is so different than"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1649.786,"endTime":1652.8,"body":"your average financial plan."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1652.95,"endTime":1654.81,"body":"Don't touch life insurance,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1652.95,"endTime":1654.81,"body":"don't touch annuities."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1654.841,"endTime":1657.241,"body":"I just did both and I'm"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1654.841,"endTime":1657.241,"body":"super pumped about it."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1657.541,"endTime":1661.481,"body":"I pumped money into a policy borrowed"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1657.541,"endTime":1661.481,"body":"against it, bought an annuity."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1661.781,"endTime":1665.261,"body":"Again, the policy is still growing"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1661.781,"endTime":1665.261,"body":"as if I had not touched the money."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1665.531,"endTime":1668.081,"body":"So I get that uninterrupted"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1665.531,"endTime":1668.081,"body":"compound growth."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1668.381,"endTime":1673.254,"body":"The problem, traditional ways to buy"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1668.381,"endTime":1673.254,"body":"things is every time I buy a car or real"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1673.254,"endTime":1677.334,"body":"estate deal, I'm spending money out of my"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1673.254,"endTime":1677.334,"body":"savings account and it's no longer earning"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1677.339,"endTime":1679.134,"body":"interest for me after I make the purchase."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1679.434,"endTime":1681.744,"body":"But with the policy, I"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1679.434,"endTime":1681.744,"body":"don't have that problem."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1681.744,"endTime":1683.754,"body":"I have uninterrupted compound growth."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1684.054,"endTime":1686.604,"body":"So I did, I borrowed from the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1684.054,"endTime":1686.604,"body":"policy and I bought this annuity."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1686.904,"endTime":1688.284,"body":"So what did I do?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1688.464,"endTime":1691.539,"body":"I have this now protected,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1688.464,"endTime":1691.539,"body":"guaranteed income for my future."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1691.689,"endTime":1693.869,"body":"And I've got the policy"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1691.689,"endTime":1693.869,"body":"still growing today."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1694.169,"endTime":1697.439,"body":"As I want to I've paid off"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1694.169,"endTime":1697.439,"body":"the loan to the policy."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1697.739,"endTime":1701.759,"body":"So it's liquid and accessible and ready"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1697.739,"endTime":1701.759,"body":"for me to go buy another rental property"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1701.789,"endTime":1706.959,"body":"or another annuity, or, send my daughter"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1701.789,"endTime":1706.959,"body":"to college or fix up the kitchen."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1707.024,"endTime":1711.219,"body":"It's the operating fund for my"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1707.024,"endTime":1711.219,"body":"life, but I'm buying my rental."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1711.219,"endTime":1714.879,"body":"I'm buying my retirement income"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1711.219,"endTime":1714.879,"body":"in chunks now and it gives me"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1714.908,"endTime":1717.593,"body":"that assurance that I'm doing"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1714.908,"endTime":1717.593,"body":"the most with the dollars I have."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1717.593,"endTime":1719.273,"body":"We all have only a finite amount of money."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1719.446,"endTime":1721.646,"body":"And we're talking about big numbers today."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1721.651,"endTime":1724.916,"body":"We could be talking, take some zeros"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1721.651,"endTime":1724.916,"body":"off or add some zeros on, but the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1724.921,"endTime":1728.576,"body":"strategies of thinking outside the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1724.921,"endTime":1728.576,"body":"box is what makes us, not so average."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1728.775,"endTime":1731.015,"body":"Your show's called your average"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1728.775,"endTime":1731.015,"body":"show, but I think you're not"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1731.015,"endTime":1731.975,"body":"so average in my opinion."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1732.215,"endTime":1733.205,"body":"No I appreciate that."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1733.205,"endTime":1736.506,"body":"And I was just gonna say too, like the"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1733.205,"endTime":1736.506,"body":"stuff you're describing is not so average."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1736.506,"endTime":1739.149,"body":"And that's why, you have your"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1736.506,"endTime":1739.149,"body":"podcast called the, Not Your"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1739.154,"endTime":1740.589,"body":"Average Financial Podcast."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1740.589,"endTime":1744.065,"body":"So I absolutely love that when we started"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1740.589,"endTime":1744.065,"body":"talking and I saw, I was reading up on"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1744.065,"endTime":1747.482,"body":"your background and everything and saw"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1744.065,"endTime":1747.482,"body":"about your podcast and I'm like, oh"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1747.499,"endTime":1750.529,"body":"this is like the perfect guy to bring"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1747.499,"endTime":1750.529,"body":"on this show to talk about this stuff."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1750.529,"endTime":1751.289,"body":"So it's really cool."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1751.321,"endTime":1753.931,"body":"Mark, so I know you have a hard stop"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1751.321,"endTime":1753.931,"body":"coming up, I have a hard stop coming up,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1753.991,"endTime":1758.374,"body":"I just wanted to point out that these"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1753.991,"endTime":1758.374,"body":"are some phenomenal, like strategies"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1758.374,"endTime":1760.864,"body":"that people can look at for their future."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1760.874,"endTime":1763.755,"body":"You don't have to do all of 'em"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1760.874,"endTime":1763.755,"body":"or, but there's some ways that"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1763.76,"endTime":1767.847,"body":"you can look at this and take some"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1763.76,"endTime":1767.847,"body":"information from this interview and"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1767.905,"endTime":1771.78,"body":"move forward in something in life and"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1767.905,"endTime":1771.78,"body":"try to set something for the future."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1771.78,"endTime":1772.02,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1772.26,"endTime":1776.221,"body":"And this isn't something that, you have"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1772.26,"endTime":1776.221,"body":"to wait a very long time for, if you get"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1776.221,"endTime":1780.421,"body":"one of these life insurance policies and"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1776.221,"endTime":1780.421,"body":"you front load it a lot, you can start"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1780.421,"endTime":1782.041,"body":"borrowing from it, like right away."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1782.06,"endTime":1785.316,"body":"Like you said the client that you"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1782.06,"endTime":1785.316,"body":"helped that, that did exactly that."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1785.336,"endTime":1788.366,"body":"So that's definitely a great way to"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1785.336,"endTime":1788.366,"body":"look at, especially for the real estate"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1788.366,"endTime":1791.406,"body":"investors out there, that when you"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1788.366,"endTime":1791.406,"body":"get these times where you sell some"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1791.406,"endTime":1793.926,"body":"of your assets or you do cash out"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1791.406,"endTime":1793.926,"body":"refinance, and you get these large"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1793.931,"endTime":1797.249,"body":"chunks of money, instead of just taking"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1793.931,"endTime":1797.249,"body":"that cash and dumping it into another"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1797.249,"endTime":1801.959,"body":"property, why not front load a life"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1797.249,"endTime":1801.959,"body":"insurance policy then borrow from"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1801.959,"endTime":1803.429,"body":"it, then dump it into that property."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1803.429,"endTime":1805.723,"body":"So you can get that double"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1803.429,"endTime":1805.723,"body":"dip excitement there."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1805.723,"endTime":1807.433,"body":"So really awesome stuff, mark."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1807.433,"endTime":1808.363,"body":"I really appreciate that."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1808.363,"endTime":1811.603,"body":"So I'd like to go into something"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1808.363,"endTime":1811.603,"body":"right now that I call the final round."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1811.903,"endTime":1815.309,"body":"I'm gonna ask you four questions"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1811.903,"endTime":1815.309,"body":"that, that are hard hitting, but wanna"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1815.309,"endTime":1816.653,"body":"see where you're at with this stuff."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1816.803,"endTime":1817.283,"body":"Let's do it."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1817.583,"endTime":1817.793,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1817.793,"endTime":1819.383,"body":"So you've been doing this"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1817.793,"endTime":1819.383,"body":"for a little while, Mark."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1819.421,"endTime":1822.74,"body":"My first question is, with everything"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1819.421,"endTime":1822.74,"body":"that you've done over the years,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1822.74,"endTime":1826.555,"body":"especially, from building up where you"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1822.74,"endTime":1826.555,"body":"were from $120,000 in debt to where"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1826.555,"endTime":1830.165,"body":"you are today, what would you say is"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1826.555,"endTime":1830.165,"body":"the biggest mistake you've ever made?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1830.315,"endTime":1832.145,"body":"Paying my debt off with cash."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1832.445,"endTime":1833.015,"body":"No doubt."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1833.235,"endTime":1837.351,"body":"And trying to chase down that"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1833.235,"endTime":1837.351,"body":"debt snowball, it was the biggest"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1837.356,"endTime":1841.071,"body":"mistake of my life because it"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1837.356,"endTime":1841.071,"body":"was the most important dollars."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1841.071,"endTime":1844.101,"body":"The most valuable dollars are the ones"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1841.071,"endTime":1844.101,"body":"that are in your pocket right now."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1844.321,"endTime":1847.861,"body":"The money that's like in your hands right"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1844.321,"endTime":1847.861,"body":"now is the most valuable you'll ever"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1847.861,"endTime":1852.111,"body":"have again, because that's the money that"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1847.861,"endTime":1852.111,"body":"will have the most opportunity to grow."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1852.308,"endTime":1854.828,"body":"And I was just throwing it at debt,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1852.308,"endTime":1854.828,"body":"giving it to some other banker."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1855.098,"endTime":1858.638,"body":"I was handing that paper bag of money"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1855.098,"endTime":1858.638,"body":"to Sallie Mae every month, just like"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1858.638,"endTime":1859.898,"body":"I did when I was five years old."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1860.198,"endTime":1864.878,"body":"So the biggest mistake was thinking that"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1860.198,"endTime":1864.878,"body":"I could just spend my way outta debt."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1865.178,"endTime":1866.798,"body":"I want to not just be debt free."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1866.798,"endTime":1870.398,"body":"I want to be better than debt free and"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1866.798,"endTime":1870.398,"body":"that's where using the policy to pay off"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1870.398,"endTime":1874.683,"body":"my debt gave me an asset that was growing"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1870.398,"endTime":1874.683,"body":"for me, not just, becoming in debt free."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1874.833,"endTime":1875.583,"body":"That's wow."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1875.633,"endTime":1876.479,"body":"That's fantastic."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1876.479,"endTime":1878.156,"body":"And that's a really"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1876.479,"endTime":1878.156,"body":"good way to look at it."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1878.161,"endTime":1879.566,"body":"Definitely appreciate that answer."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1879.866,"endTime":1880.226,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1880.281,"endTime":1883.971,"body":"Next question is what is something"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1880.281,"endTime":1883.971,"body":"that you've learned that you wish"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1883.971,"endTime":1885.321,"body":"you knew when you first started?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1885.392,"endTime":1888.519,"body":"Again the trouble of"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1885.392,"endTime":1888.519,"body":"there's so many men, but there's so"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1888.519,"endTime":1893.125,"body":"many psychological things that so many"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1888.519,"endTime":1893.125,"body":"psychological manners that we all take"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1893.125,"endTime":1894.965,"body":"with us into this world called money."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1894.965,"endTime":1896.405,"body":"I'll just use one or two."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1896.485,"endTime":1898.325,"body":"We've talked about opportunity cost."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1898.325,"endTime":1902.56,"body":"That's the idea where, when you say"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1898.325,"endTime":1902.56,"body":"yes to this ice cream cone, you have"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1902.56,"endTime":1906.623,"body":"to say no to the $32 that three bucks"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1902.56,"endTime":1906.623,"body":"might have grown to over your life."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1906.788,"endTime":1907.148,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1907.448,"endTime":1909.578,"body":"So that's the first one"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1907.448,"endTime":1909.578,"body":"is opportunity cost."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1909.578,"endTime":1911.258,"body":"I didn't know about that early on."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1911.558,"endTime":1913.931,"body":"The second is familiarity bias."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1913.936,"endTime":1915.521,"body":"I'll just mention two here today."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1915.611,"endTime":1916.571,"body":"Familiarity bias."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1916.871,"endTime":1922.348,"body":"We typically are told to get a"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1916.871,"endTime":1922.348,"body":"401k and we're all just assuming"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1922.348,"endTime":1924.097,"body":"that's what everyone's always done."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1924.247,"endTime":1926.717,"body":"Mike, do you realize that"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1924.247,"endTime":1926.717,"body":"the 401k is so young?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1927.017,"endTime":1928.757,"body":"It's not even old enough to retire yet?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1928.907,"endTime":1930.627,"body":"It got started in 1981."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1930.677,"endTime":1931.657,"body":"1981!"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1931.907,"endTime":1933.437,"body":"That's younger than star wars."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1933.658,"endTime":1936.718,"body":"So find out the truth about money."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1936.958,"endTime":1940.94,"body":"Don't just look into, what's familiar"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1936.958,"endTime":1940.94,"body":"to you and whole life insurance"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1940.94,"endTime":1942.74,"body":"has been around hundreds of years."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1942.745,"endTime":1945.92,"body":"Annuities, as I mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1942.745,"endTime":1945.92,"body":"have been around 2300 years."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1946.13,"endTime":1948.05,"body":"Real estate is as old as the pyramids."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1948.35,"endTime":1951.05,"body":"And one last thing, I guess I'll"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1948.35,"endTime":1951.05,"body":"mention is something called the Lindy"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1951.05,"endTime":1955.43,"body":"effect, which as long as something's"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1951.05,"endTime":1955.43,"body":"been around, it's more likely it's"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1955.43,"endTime":1957.17,"body":"gonna exist for a long period of time."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1957.32,"endTime":1961.22,"body":"It's why the Bible is gonna outlast"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1957.32,"endTime":1961.22,"body":"this year's New York times best seller."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1961.52,"endTime":1964.04,"body":"It's why I think the chair"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1961.52,"endTime":1964.04,"body":"will outlast the iPhone."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1964.34,"endTime":1966.65,"body":"The longer something's been"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1964.34,"endTime":1966.65,"body":"in existence, the longer it's"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1966.65,"endTime":1968.06,"body":"likely gonna be in existence."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1968.36,"endTime":1971.39,"body":"So it's my bet that real estate,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1968.36,"endTime":1971.39,"body":"whole life insurance and annuities"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1971.39,"endTime":1972.513,"body":"will beat out the stock market."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1972.663,"endTime":1974.343,"body":"And we'll be here for"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1972.663,"endTime":1974.343,"body":"thousands more years."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1974.463,"endTime":1974.853,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1975.033,"endTime":1979.403,"body":"So that's the Lindy Effect and"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1975.033,"endTime":1979.403,"body":"watch out for familiarity bias"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1979.403,"endTime":1981.338,"body":"and watch out for opportunity."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1981.488,"endTime":1983.078,"body":"Wow,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1981.488,"endTime":1983.078,"body":"that's a great answer, mark."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1983.168,"endTime":1984.338,"body":"Definitely appreciate that."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1984.558,"endTime":1985.434,"body":"And that's a great point too."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1985.434,"endTime":1987.924,"body":"When you think about like how"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1985.434,"endTime":1987.924,"body":"long something's been around,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1987.924,"endTime":1990.504,"body":"how long, especially when you're"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1987.924,"endTime":1990.504,"body":"looking at like financial products."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1990.603,"endTime":1995.17,"body":"And, talking about how the 401k's"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1990.603,"endTime":1995.17,"body":"only been around since 1981 that's"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1995.175,"endTime":1996.34,"body":"really something to think about."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1996.438,"endTime":1999.297,"body":"That's yeah, like you said, it's"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":1996.438,"endTime":1999.297,"body":"not even old enough to retire."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":1999.48,"endTime":2000.71,"body":"It's a mind number, right?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2000.98,"endTime":2002.27,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2002.3,"endTime":2003.23,"body":"Okay, fantastic."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2003.23,"endTime":2004.13,"body":"So here's the next question."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2004.18,"endTime":2006.905,"body":"So do you have any tips or tricks"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2004.18,"endTime":2006.905,"body":"that you would recommend to someone"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2006.91,"endTime":2008.465,"body":"that is just getting started today?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2008.47,"endTime":2012.065,"body":"I have a feeling, I know what this"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2008.47,"endTime":2012.065,"body":"answer's gonna be, but Mark, please."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2012.365,"endTime":2014.295,"body":"Can you give"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2012.365,"endTime":2014.295,"body":"context getting started in?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2014.445,"endTime":2016.575,"body":"So just"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2014.445,"endTime":2016.575,"body":"so let's say it's somebody that."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2016.875,"endTime":2019.065,"body":"Like you, they just"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2016.875,"endTime":2019.065,"body":"finished up school, right?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2019.065,"endTime":2023.899,"body":"They've got their student loan debt and"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2019.065,"endTime":2023.899,"body":"they're starting their adulthood today."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2024.199,"endTime":2025.429,"body":"What would you recommend to them?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2025.526,"endTime":2029.396,"body":"Get above water financially,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2025.526,"endTime":2029.396,"body":"make more money than you spend, watch"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2029.396,"endTime":2034.692,"body":"out for Parkinson's law, which says"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2029.396,"endTime":2034.692,"body":"expenses will rise to meet your income."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2034.992,"endTime":2038.532,"body":"Or as I like to say a luxury, once"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2034.992,"endTime":2038.532,"body":"you enjoy it becomes a necessity."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2038.532,"endTime":2039.282,"body":"Watch out for that."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2039.582,"endTime":2041.742,"body":"Step one is just get"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2039.582,"endTime":2041.742,"body":"above water financially."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2041.742,"endTime":2046.122,"body":"Step two is pack away tons of"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2041.742,"endTime":2046.122,"body":"cash and invest in yourself."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2046.272,"endTime":2049.812,"body":"You are your greatest asset so the"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2046.272,"endTime":2049.812,"body":"more you can invest in yourself,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2049.872,"endTime":2052.632,"body":"your knowledge, your insights,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2049.872,"endTime":2052.632,"body":"your connections with people."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2052.932,"endTime":2055.969,"body":"And then when you do make some more"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2052.932,"endTime":2055.969,"body":"money, pack it away and something"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2055.969,"endTime":2057.929,"body":"that's contractually guaranteed."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2057.929,"endTime":2059.763,"body":"Not just hope and pray strategy."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2059.931,"endTime":2060.651,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2060.651,"endTime":2061.281,"body":"Love that, Mark."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2061.311,"endTime":2061.641,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2061.941,"endTime":2065.939,"body":"The final question I have for"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2061.941,"endTime":2065.939,"body":"you and so this is gonna be"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2066.019,"endTime":2067.339,"body":"besides your own question."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2067.369,"endTime":2067.579,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2067.579,"endTime":2071.689,"body":"So besides your own, do you have a"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2067.579,"endTime":2071.689,"body":"favorite business investing or real"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2071.689,"endTime":2074.357,"body":"estate related book or podcast or both?"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2074.507,"endTime":2077.207,"body":"I'm really a big fan"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2074.507,"endTime":2077.207,"body":"right now of Keith Cunningham's book"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2077.387,"endTime":2081.497,"body":"The Road Less Stupid, great book"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2077.387,"endTime":2081.497,"body":"about how to not pay the dumb tax."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2081.797,"endTime":2085.397,"body":"And we all have paid dumb tax in"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2081.797,"endTime":2085.397,"body":"our life, but we can get into a"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2085.397,"endTime":2089.237,"body":"lower tax bracket with the dumb"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2085.397,"endTime":2089.237,"body":"tax  and this that's my goal."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2089.637,"endTime":2090.297,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2090.297,"endTime":2092.277,"body":"And I wrote that one down,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2090.297,"endTime":2092.277,"body":"cause I've not read that and"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2092.277,"endTime":2093.447,"body":"I'm gonna add that to my list."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2093.747,"endTime":2094.197,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2094.377,"endTime":2097.985,"body":"Now that was the final round, but I do"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2094.377,"endTime":2097.985,"body":"have one more question for you, Mark."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2097.985,"endTime":2101.081,"body":"And this is probably the most important"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2097.985,"endTime":2101.081,"body":"question for this entire interview"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2101.096,"endTime":2103.646,"body":"because for the people that have been"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2101.096,"endTime":2103.646,"body":"listening and they're saying, wow,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2103.646,"endTime":2105.3,"body":"I really what Mark's talking about."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2105.33,"endTime":2107.31,"body":"I wanna know more about him."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2107.61,"endTime":2110.327,"body":"Or, some of these different strategies"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2107.61,"endTime":2110.327,"body":"that he's talking about, I'd love to"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2110.327,"endTime":2111.947,"body":"have a one on one with him or something."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2112.247,"endTime":2114.917,"body":"So where can people find"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2112.247,"endTime":2114.917,"body":"more information about you?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2114.917,"endTime":2117.587,"body":"Do you have a website, social media,"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2114.917,"endTime":2117.587,"body":"anything you'd like to share with us?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2117.658,"endTime":2119.878,"body":"And please tell us about"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2117.658,"endTime":2119.878,"body":"your podcast as well."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2120.178,"endTime":2120.598,"body":"Oh, sure."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2120.598,"endTime":2120.878,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2120.878,"endTime":2125.144,"body":"If you guys like your, if you like"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2120.878,"endTime":2125.144,"body":"Average Joe Finances that Mike talks"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2125.144,"endTime":2128.534,"body":"about here on this show, you'd love"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2125.144,"endTime":2128.534,"body":"Not Your Average Financial Podcast"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2128.834,"endTime":2130.898,"body":", anywhere you listen to this show."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2131.048,"endTime":2134.438,"body":"If you wanna reach out to me and you're"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2131.048,"endTime":2134.438,"body":"ready to build some contractual wealth"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2134.438,"endTime":2137.068,"body":"without all the stock market, tomfoolery."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2137.318,"endTime":2140.981,"body":"If you wanna be able to use the bank on"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2137.318,"endTime":2140.981,"body":"yourself strategy with your real estate,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2140.981,"endTime":2144.071,"body":"or you wanna lock in some guaranteed"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2140.981,"endTime":2144.071,"body":"income for the rest of your life,"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2144.174,"endTime":2148.986,"body":"let's chat go to kickstartwithmark.com"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2144.174,"endTime":2148.986,"body":"it's probably the best website"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2148.986,"endTime":2151.766,"body":"to go to kickstartwithmark.com."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2151.966,"endTime":2152.656,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2152.656,"endTime":2154.823,"body":"Hey, we'll make sure we have"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2152.656,"endTime":2154.823,"body":"that down in the show notes to"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2154.823,"endTime":2156.143,"body":"make it easier for everybody."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2156.413,"endTime":2158.353,"body":"So kickstartwithmark.com."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2158.378,"endTime":2159.138,"body":"Go check it out."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2159.138,"endTime":2160.531,"body":"Check out what Mark's doing."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2160.585,"endTime":2162.383,"body":"Go take a look go listen to his podcast."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2162.437,"endTime":2164.477,"body":"He's got some great content"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2162.437,"endTime":2164.477,"body":"he's putting out there."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2164.717,"endTime":2165.887,"body":"I think he's on what episode?"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2165.892,"endTime":2167.297,"body":"247 right now."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2167.297,"endTime":2167.837,"body":"So it's..."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2167.837,"endTime":2169.067,"body":"I'm just trying"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2167.837,"endTime":2169.067,"body":"to keep up with you, man."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2169.196,"endTime":2169.666,"body":"I'm not even there."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2169.666,"endTime":2170.64,"body":"I'm nowhere near that, man."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2170.64,"endTime":2172.564,"body":"Doing great work and"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2170.64,"endTime":2172.564,"body":"definitely appreciate it."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2172.564,"endTime":2176.614,"body":"So Mark, I am super, just humbled"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2172.564,"endTime":2176.614,"body":"and excited that I got to have"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2176.614,"endTime":2177.964,"body":"this conversation with you today."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2178.264,"endTime":2181.381,"body":"Thank you so much for joining us and"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2178.264,"endTime":2181.381,"body":"sharing your story and what you're doing."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2181.681,"endTime":2182.791,"body":"Hey Mike, thanks so much."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2182.791,"endTime":2186.018,"body":"And everybody Mike is blowing"},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2182.791,"endTime":2186.018,"body":"it up on the interwebs."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2186.018,"endTime":2186.997,"body":"He's doing a great job."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2187.068,"endTime":2188.208,"body":"Give him a five star review."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2188.208,"endTime":2189.468,"body":"He works hard on this show."},{"speaker":"Mark Willis","startTime":2189.468,"endTime":2191.038,"body":"So go give him a five star review."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2191.038,"endTime":2192.448,"body":"You know"},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2191.038,"endTime":2192.448,"body":"what I really appreciate that."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2192.458,"endTime":2193.178,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Average Joe Finances","startTime":2193.478,"endTime":2194.938,"body":"And Aloha from Hawaii."}]}