SPEAKER_01 0:14

Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome back to the Between the Lines podcast. I am one of your three hosts, creator and founder of the King Report Carver King. And joining me as always, my two good friends. I think we'll start with Jackson. Jackson, how are you doing on a wet Tuesday evening here in Minneapolis, Minnesota?

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Doing well. Happy to be back on the podcast, man. Yeah, it's been pouring outside today. Um could use the rain, so it's nice, but hopefully no flooding here in the uh in the great Twin Cities area. Um, but exciting night, um, nonetheless, for Justin and I. I kind of feel like we're that meme of like the two Jack guys, like just freaking like handshaking in the middle with Caleb Wilson going to the Bulls.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Yeah, no, uh obviously we were here watching the NBA draft. We just watched the uh Bulls take Caleb Wilson. Looking at Brooklyn to make a pick here. But yeah, big news. I think he thought that was gonna happen. I mean, it's been kind of a chalky draw for the draft so far, but it's still exciting nonetheless.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

I would say the top five have all been chalk. We're waiting for the sixth pick here. I would I would presume Garland here, most likely, but the Nets love to do weird shit. So who who knows what they're gonna be up to? But something about Darius Garland in Brooklyn. Or sorry, I why did you say Darius Garland? Again, I'm sorry. I said this last night, too. I don't know, I don't know why he messed it up. I something about Darius Acuff in Brooklyn, I think, is really exciting.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yeah, that one would be cool. Uh Acuff would be cool here. I think you've seen you've seen the mostly mocked out to the Kings, but I think him and Brooklyn will be fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

I'm just I'm lower on uh Michael Brown than the rest of the field, I think. But we we can get into that.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Justin, how are you doing down in the big O?

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Doing well. Spent the weekend up in uh Minnesota, which was nice. Weather was awesome when I was there. Yeah, yeah. Uh so you're welcome for bringing that back. Appreciate it. Um, but yeah, the we got back. Thank God. The oh, was my camera off? I did not notice that the entire time.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

You're good.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Um was uh got back college world series over, thank God. Um just the traffic has been insane for the past two weeks for a sport that I don't care too much about. Um sorry, loyal listener, Hunter Kept. Uh Oklahoma did. Oh, nice, okay. Nice. So basically never let them tell you they're a football school ever. Yeah, um, they'll try to talk you into it because they score 50 points a lot, but they never make it that far. So Oklahoma, known baseball school. Uh, honestly, probably more of a basketball school, too. I've seen some good players, good shooters come out of Oklahoma. So, yeah, but yeah, glad that's over. Glad to be back. Big time of the year, ton of news to talk about. And we're doing this live during the NBA draft, which when we do last time, I feel like we did it during the NBA draft. Uh Wolves made a Rob Dillingham trade. Yes, they did.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Yeah, I forgot about that. Might not have worked out, but it was still fun.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

So excited.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

We were stoked in uh in the moment, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

And that's all you can do, that's all you can be, right? Like you can only go with what you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

You think we're gonna see uh LeBaron phylon trade up here?

SPEAKER_02 3:12

I when I saw that they brought him in for a workout, I was like, they can't go for the sub 180-pound guard again. Like, there's no way they do it twice.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Clearly, like it would be hard to deny that that's just like the blind spot in our scouting department.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is weird because the wolves are so like they're such a long team. There are like the most in-shape team. Like, even look at before Julius Randle was gone, there were always articles about how the wolves' nutrition department is like the best in the NBA, and they get their guys into great shape. And it's like, oh, but when it comes to that guard position, Timmy C is like, okay, this is where we need yeah, it's like a lanky skinny dude.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

I don't I don't know if we need him to step on the scale.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Michael Brown to the net to the nets. But yeah, I think it's one of those things where whatever computer program we're using, the nets will nets, man. To uh, you know, kind of uh grade players, we need to maybe add a few points in there for uh height and weight.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Definitely. I mean, I just don't think we have a scale at the at the facility.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Uh but yeah, Michael Brown going to the Nets. Jackson says the Nets will net.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

The Nets will net. I I think I kind of hit it off the top here. I was like, I feel like it's gotta be Acuff, but I mean Michael Brown might just might just slip in here.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

How to get how to get a new guard because obviously uh Nets legend Cam Thomas left in the uh art in the regular season last year.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

So I will say Darius. Darius Acuff is a little too Cam Thomas-y. So maybe that's the uh the red flag there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

But we will get into it. Thanks for joining us. It's gonna be a fun episode tonight, episode 193 of the Between Lions podcast. I actually don't have any 93s written down. I feel like I need to know one off the top of my head, but I do not. I do not. What is that? 93. Oh man. Hockey? There's gotta be a hockey player. I think there was a I think one of the good players for the Red Wings wore 93.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

John Randall? Did he wear 93?

SPEAKER_00 5:10

I thought there was a Viking.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

Did he? It says Meta World Peace on here. Okay. Greatest players who wore NFL jersey, John Randall.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Alright, I love it. The Johnny Randall episode. One of the greatest undrafted players in uh NFL history.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

Or was that? He must around though.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

I mean, he played on the game.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

He had a couple different numbers, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Yeah, John Franey. Oh, Dwight Freeney. Yeah, he was he was a legend. Gerald McCoy. Richard C.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Kevin Williams, the better of the Williams also world.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Hall of Famer. I believe.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

Is he? He should be. I think he's a Hall of Famer. I could be wrong. NFL's weird with the Hall of Fame. Like I can look at a basketball player's stats after like three years and be like, yeah, he's gonna be in the Hall of Fame. The NFL, I just don't know how they do it. Let's see. Kevin Williams. I believe it's Clayus Campbell.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Yeah, Clayus Campbell. Kevin Williams is on this list.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Dwight Freeney on this list?

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Gerald McCoy, dude?

SPEAKER_02 6:22

Is a former he who was a finalist for Pro Football Hall of Fame class of 2026, though he fell short.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Ah, he's not a Hall of Famer. Okay. I know he he he gets votes, or he was getting votes when he was eligible. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

He's five-time first team all pro. I don't know how as like a non-quarterback. I don't know what else you're supposed to do to get into the Hall of Fame. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Half a decade being the best player at your position. I think that's pretty good in the NFL. Um, but we will continue. Gonna be kind of a riff tonight. We have a bunch of fun, different things we'll talk about, but I guess how do we want to start, Jackson? Do you want to start with uh with your uh ceiling and floor, or would you like to go a different way?

SPEAKER_00 7:00

I'll start, but I'm am I gonna go a different way? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Go ahead, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

I want to say congrats to the New York Knicks. Um, since we've last recorded, the New York Knicks have been crowned champions of the NBA winning the Lawrence O'Brien trophy.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Lori O'Brien Larry O'Brien.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Full name Lawrence.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Oh, my bad, my bad.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Sorry. Threw me off there. Um but yeah, I the Knicks run might be one of the better finals runs I think I've seen. Like, have you I don't know. It's just weird because I think on paper this team just was not as exciting. But when you think about the hurdles that they had to like the Spurs team, I think we're gonna look back and think pretty highly of. Um the Thunder team, I don't think we've heard the last of them. Um, I know it was a down year kind of in the East with Giannis kind of being out of the picture, um, Jason Tatum coming back late. Uh, but the East is slowly getting better. Yeah. I just the the shooting performance that that team went on um to end up winning the title was just spectacular. And um I think what was really cool about the finals is that although it was technically only a five-game series, the Spurs led, I think, for I think I saw 79% of the game, like the minutes played in the finals. So every game, it just like we had um like I don't know, nail biter after nail biter, including the largest comeback in the history of the finals in a single game. So I I think this finals is gonna go down as a pretty great one. And I'd like to congratulate the New York Knicks for getting the monkey off their back. Um is I it was pretty awesome. And it also I think is kind of inspiring for other teams, um, for other fans of other teams, like us as fans of like the Minnesota Timber Bulls, for example, that if you put a good roster together and you start playing basketball, like right, like I don't know, good basketball at the right time, you get hot. Yeah, anybody's got a chance.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

And I think that like that's kind of what the big reminder was this year, because it felt like at least the last two years, that like the teams that won the finals were all just inevitable. And then that was also kind of dating back to the super team era where it felt like just the best team on paper won, and that's just that's just how it went. Maybe there were some injuries, and so teams that maybe were better on paper weren't the best on paper when it came to June, but it it is what it is. I think we're kind of back to a more fun, wide open like feel to the NBA. So maybe credit to CJ McCollum and the uh in the apron and the collective bargain agreement, because now I mean I don't know. I I think that this this title should give a lot of other teams hope. And uh I think that's pretty exciting. So I I think 2026 will go down as a memorable finals and hopefully a turning point in uh kind of roster construction.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Yeah, I agree. Uh it was a great finals to watch. Even when you say that it was a five-game series, you almost forget because so much happened, and it was like you said, I mean, the Spurs led so much, it was so competitive that it feels like more games were played. Um, and I yeah, I agree with you. I think, and I know we're all talk about the Timberwolves tonight, but kind of in this era of parody, which even though you know, like the last year and like you said, the last two years, the teams that won set seem to be uh inevitable. At the end of the day, we're still kind of in this era of parody where we've had seven or seven different champions here in a row. So yeah, I I definitely look at it as a guy who you know roots for the Wolves. Um, you know, obviously we have a star player and other good players as well, high-quality players. You know, can we get one in this period and then this era is kind of where my mindset is at. And I think when you watch a team like the Knicks, it's you know, who knows how good the Knicks will be next year if they'll be I mean, I'm sure they'll be contending again in the East, out of the East, but who knows? But it doesn't matter their fans. They got theirs, they have something to, you know, be proud of. And I just think about it too, like how many Wolves fans have been born eating bred kind of just in this Anthony Edwards period of us, you know, even just making the watch the conference finals, not even necessarily winning anything, uh, if you look at it, you know, black and white. But imagine how many fans, like new New York Knicks fans, have been created. And I know people think that's bandwagony, but you know, people become fans of teams, kids specifically specifically become fans of teams when they're young and they're good and they're winning championships, and you're at a very impressionable age. So yeah, definitely gives me hope. It's just fun to see the city so electric. I've never been in New York, but it just looks amazing uh what the fans have been celebrating. And yeah, I mean it's the basketball mecca, so it it definitely was fun to watch. Um, probably helps that I'm a West Coast or I'm a Western conference fan. I'm sure Celtics fans probably didn't care too much for the next championship this year, but I digress. What do you think, JR?

SPEAKER_02 11:37

Yeah, first of all, obviously, shout out to the post with the most the seven-foot Kentucky Wildcat, Carl Anthony Towns. That was oh, I'm happy for him. Um, I think it's really weird when like Wolves fans are like, oh, I don't like on Twitter, you'll have the not even Wolves fans, it's usually like a burner account fan of one player on the Timberwolves. Um that's always weird. Um, but it was awesome to see him win one. Kind of what you said, Jackson, with showing that there's some team building that can go into play. If like in hindsight, I think if OKC pulls off that series, obviously the Knicks were hot hot, but OKC's a team where I could see them even now. If they played a series now, I could be like, yeah, they might beat the Knicks in five. Like OKC is just that talented of a team, and it goes to show with how weird of a player Wemby's going to be for the next 15 years. And when I say weird, he's obviously dominant, but so weird to play. It's just an awkward matchup for everyone because he's massive. You're going to need it, doesn't necessarily you don't need the most talented team, like an Oklahoma City Thunder. It's going to be the team that is built to play basketball correctly to beat a seven foot five guy. And I think that's good. It's good for the league in a sense of, oh, you know, like I will honestly say, I think that's just the blueprint to beat Wembio for the next 15 years. When you run into that, that's how you're just gonna have to hit shots and play good team basketball, high IQ basketball. Um, and that's what the Knicks did, and they were perfectly built for that. Uh, and that's it's fun to see. It was fun to see they all contributed. Obviously, huge Josh Hart guy. Um, that's like the power guard. Josh Josh Hart is like the Michael Jordan of Duke Shelley Award winners. Like, that's what I think of him as. Like, honestly, like that's we gotta get him on the pod, dude. He is that much of a dog. Um and obviously Jalen Brunson, yeah. Was he inefficient? Yeah, but he balled, but he scored.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Uh sometimes efficiency is a little overrated.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

That game five was probably the greatest close-out game performance I've seen.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Is it doesn't put point like there's you don't get a point for efficiency.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

Efficiency is I think efficiency is great, and we can look at if like efficiency metrics nowadays over the course of a season. But go look at a Michael Jordan's final game. He might put up 50 and shoot 30, but he put up 50, like he's balling out because he trusts himself to do it more than the other players, and Jalen Brunson balled out. OG, such a big game. OG had like the quietest, greatest finals game ever.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Um, that was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

I think he went 10 to 15, 35 points.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

Yeah, and Mikhail Bridges, a blue guy, a vibes guy. So it it was fun to see that. Um obviously, I mean, shout out De'Aaron Fox for giving us a little parody in the league. Uh, not the Western, not the best team from the Western Conference winning all the time until yesterday when Julius was traded. I was honestly thinking maybe it's a Julius for D'Aaron. We'll take a filler, a filler pick on the back end. Give us that 2031 back.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Um, you didn't realize that Julius had negative trade value, though.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

Yeah, I mean, for a while, it just based off of Twitter. It depends how much GMs are on Twitter, because if they were on Twitter, you gotta get off boxes. You have to. Uh, but yeah, awesome finals overall. It the best five-game series ever.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

Yeah. I think something to say too is like with the cat trade to not from a Nick's perspective, getting cat. I know obviously a lot of it was like financially is like why he was available, but I think like when you look back to like the LeBron James era or like the Golden State era, like I feel like teams were afraid to do that, like make a bigger splash trade for a star because it just didn't feel worth it. Like, one player is not going to get you over the hump against LeBron James, or like you know, the thought was one player isn't gonna get you over the hump against the Warriors. So we might as well just like either be bad or like wait it out until we can accrue that talent. Exactly, until we can like slowly accrue enough talent to like then maybe actually face them. So, yeah, I think the with the way the Knicks did it, it's just fun to see, kind of reminiscent, not completely because they did it obviously with more time, but a little bit of kind of when the uh Toronto Raptors won the title in 2019, where it's they made a splash and the splash won them a championship. I can't imagine, even 10 years from now, that their fans are complaining about you know trading for Kawhi Leonard, at least the majority.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

Um when people are like seven different champions in seven years, that Toronto was the team that started that. Like they ended the Golden State era, yeah, and then it's now golden state era. Yeah, that's true. Um, yeah, but also birth, probably the greatest meme of all time of Drake reacting to Kevin Durant's injury. Sorry, but it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

That was one. But no, yeah, as somebody who just likes aggressive front office and transactions, I like when teams that make transactions are then rewarded with championships. Satisfying.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Yeah, I mean the the Brunson transaction was also just a beautiful transaction as well. Like, I mean, I I think that they've was any like key contributor in that team like drafted by the Knicks?

SPEAKER_01 17:02

I don't think so. I think all five Robinson, I think, is the only OG Knicks kind of yeah, that's wild. Because they were the worst team in the NBA seven years ago.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

And also shout out Mike Brown, dude, a guy that's been doing it for a really long time. Like, I it was just really just like a story of a lot of guys getting the monkey off their back with this title. And I think this ring is gonna carry like you talk about like the weight that rings have. I think this ring will have a ton of weight going forward, and that's why I I congratulations to the Knicks because I think this 2026 finals will be a very memorable one, um, even though it was only five games, which is again nuts to think about that it was a gentleman's suite, but it was very competitive the whole way through um all five of those games. And I don't know, the the Knicks just found a way to get it done. And I I think that there's a lot of lessons to be learned about team building. Um, that I would hope the Timberwolves, like especially the Timberwolves being a team that like I would argue Jalen Brunson like isn't a true traditional point guard, he's probably more of an off like scoring guard, short shooting guard kind of. Yeah, and the wolves could very much so learn how to construct their team and kind of work their flow um in a more similar style. And I think you kind of see that with the Julius Randle trade, which could be a nice natural segue there.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Yeah, no, we can talk about a little bit of Wolves stuff. I mean, I mean, the Wolves have done a lot in the last since we've recorded in just even the last 24, 48 hours. So we can get into it. But obviously, the big news being Julius Randle shipped to Brooklyn for uh I guess Julius Randle and the 28th pick in the first round, shipped to Brooklyn for the 33rd pick in the first round. The Bulls also get Nick Claxon, who's been a good player for a while. As I know as a Lakers fan, I know Laker fans, Lakers fans have wanted him in LA for a while. So uh Bulls get a player out of the deal too. Um, but obviously the big player, the big move and the big story is the uh Wolves kind of having to uh tag along and ask that obviously um to get rid of Julius Randle. Obviously, things did not end well with Julius here at Minnesota. Um had a decent first round series. Uh, I can't remember who he played in the first round off the top of my head. Um, decent first round series, and then against San Antonio, it pretty much all fell apart. He played Denver. Yes. Played Denver in the first round. Um, and in general, towards the end of the season, kind of just was not the same player. Should he have got rid of the trade deadline? Uh, but that's something we we talk about. Um, but I think obviously, whenever you have to tag an asset to a player, that always kind of hurts a little bit. But what I was reading today is, you know, the team is that they're hoping that this is an addition by subtraction, which I think if you talk to most Wolves fans, they would probably agree with that motion. Um, and then another huge thing you get out of it is it puts us $31 million under the first apron as we sit here today. We'll see what happens on draft night. But um, if we stay on pat with that, the wolves will have some of the more more some more financial flex some some of the most financial flexibility that they've had probably in that's almost a decade.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

I mean, that's what I was gonna say. Yeah, was I mean, since the Rudy trade, this is the most like flexibility the team has had, which I think is the number one gain from the trade. Now it doesn't show up when it when Sham sends the tweet out. You know, he doesn't put the the Timberwolves acquire financial freedom.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

31 million dollars doesn't have a jersey in the locker room.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

No, it doesn't. Yeah, but it does offer us some ability to. I mean, if we want to go out and sign like a like a nice like filler piece for about 15 mil, like we have room to do that now, and as well as fill out the rest of the roster. Um, if we want to try to pull off a bigger trade, we now have the trade exception um that expires in 365 days. So I we don't even have to use it now. I I don't think that they'll even technically use it now. I think it's really just to have more leverage around the deadline, potentially uh like the the next this next trade deadline um so that then we have the ability to take on more money uh when that comes around. But I don't know, I I think the casual fan will look at this trade and then also with the recency of the Knicks winning the finals and that therefore Carl Anthony Towns winning a winning a ring and Julius Randle now back in Brooklyn. Um they'll look at this trade and be like, well, what are the wolves doing? But I think for the more wired fan, not nearly as tired, um you you see like the the positives here that there is some really good spin and some good flexibility that the wolves have to now hopefully try to put a real contending team around Anthony Edwards for these next couple years. I mean, we got Jaden, Nas, Io, and Ant all under contract through 2029. So we got a nice three-year window to try to ramp these guys up and see what we can do and put the right pieces around them. And again, I think this is a big lesson from what we just saw in the NBA finals that we don't need the secondary star to be able to make Anthony Edwards and this team click. We really just need the right pieces around him to uh support and kind of play more team oriented basketball.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Well, yes, I think I think we talked about it in the last podcast too. Um like if you I'd mentioned, oh, I want the wolves to go. I don't necessarily think it's a step back. It might be. I don't know how it's gonna play out. But a lot of people think of building teams and making a team better in terms of acquiring players, player acquiring assets, uh making trades, making good signings. I think for the wolves, it's gonna be nice to see. Like if they can't make a huge swing tonight, I don't know what's gonna happen, but just change the way they play around Ant, like Jackson just said. Um I'd kind of compared it to OKC because I think last time at the time, or maybe two podcasts ago, OKC was up three to two or whatever. So I thought it was gonna be OKC. But they built a team to play around Shay, and Shay's obviously a dog, but also another player who came into the league thought of as a two guard, and now it's like, oh, they most guards nowadays are just combo guards, but the good ones actually have a team around them that makes it easy to get off the ball because most point guards nowadays aren't the Chris Paul type where it's like, oh, I'm just gonna be able to ball handle around everyone. Um, unless they want to go get Kyrie, that'd be awesome if that happens. It'd be sexy. Uh they can figure out a way to do it. But now they have a team where I think they're gonna be able to play a little the way Ant plays, and I think he's a star, a superstar. It's good to get off of someone that is just another kind of black hole and not good enough to be like justifiably be a black hole on the offense. And people freaking out about oh, we gave up Julius in a like we had to add a first round pick. Yeah, that kind of sucks, but we got a second back five picks later, it gives us a little more financial flexibility. So, unless there's really someone that you're like, unless someone has a crystal ball and is like, oh, the guy you really want isn't gonna be there at 33, but he would have been there at 28. Then and if that was the case, they probably don't make the trade. But I don't think there's anyone uh that Timmy C is willing to go die on a hill for that is gonna for sure be gone in that range. Um so we still get a pick that, as weird as it sounds, basically the same thing. You save a million dollars, which in the apron era is a big deal. It doesn't seem like much, but we just had to add a first-round pick to someone to get off a $30 million contract. So this is the there's things about the apron that I love. Um, not even not things about the apron. There's things about the NBA cap that I love, um, and promoting guys staying where they are. But obviously, having the aprons and that changing not only your trade flexibility, but also like the level of your um like vet ext or like veteran contracts, like your mid-level exceptions going from 15 million to 10 million, that's a huge difference. Uh, so I think they're they're playing it smart. We still have an asset that's basically worth the same thing, uh, with a little more flexibility. And I think like you said, Carver, it is addition by subtraction, and hopefully, hopefully these guys can get out and run. And I was just shout out Julius. We got to a Western conference finals with him, um, and he had some big moments living in the upside down, but yeah, it's kind of just a shame how it ended.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

I mean, it could have it was never gonna be a Wolves legend, but it definitely he could have definitely gone out better. I yeah, there's no reason for it to get as ugly as it got.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

It's tough because you you didn't think after the Thunder series he could ever play a series that bad.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Um, but he was like, Hold my beer, I'm gonna seriously I'm gonna make my mark while I'm here.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, I I I do agree with you guys, and I think the biggest thing I'm happy about, obviously, the financials, you know, it's tough for me to I'm obviously I'm impatient, right? I mean, we've been in the playoffs, we we've been knocking on the door, you know. I I want the team to progress linearly, and maybe they still are progressing linearly. Um, but obviously when you lose a player and you don't necessarily bring one in, um, it feels like nothing they're taking a step back, but what kind of you know, you you ask what's going on. But I'm happy. I know I talked about it earlier. Um, presumably now, you know, you move Nas in that uh starting four spot, which I'm excited about. Um, I think it's time for him, and I think he's ready to step up and uh you know to have a few more minutes, play a little bit more. Uh, and then vice versa, Jay McDaniels, you know, I'm not expecting him to become this offensive beast, but he will just and he will just get more shots, and ideally those will be good shots if you know if the system is good. But if he's getting five more quality shots a game, you know, I think that makes him just a more valuable player without him even having to like improve on his like a certain skill right away, necessarily. Totally. So I think you yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

I mean, if the cupboard was bare, I would feel worse about this Julius for nothing trade, right? But the cupboard isn't empty for us. No, no. Like there are guys that like to easily take on more minutes, Terrence also being another one of those guys, too.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Exactly. Guys can take out more minutes and take on shots, so I'm not that worried about it from that regard.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

And I just like I also think we're not done adding pieces.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Yeah, exactly. We're not it's that's what I'm saying. It's hard to like really make a comment. Yes, right now in the moment, I'm like, what are we doing? Because we are, you know, the rosters essentially ran back, except minus one guy, which yes, the guy was bad, but still, you know what I mean? You want new, you want fresh. But I think what I can be excited about, at least sitting here today, one, I expect, like you said, there to be other booths to be made, veterans, and I mean we can not gonna go through phrases on this, but there's a ton of guys that I would be happy having, one or two guys just adding to this roster to kind of get us playing a uh you know more modern style. But the thing I am excited about is a shift in philosophy, hopefully, in in the way we watch the Wolves games. Obviously, not as slow, not as black holy with you know Randall out there. Maybe we're passing the ball a little bit more. So um I think all of those things are reasons to be excited on June 23rd.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

Yeah, and and like there is the like the idea of like it is what Ant has this year plus an additional two. So he's three years left under contract. Hopefully, we get him extended early and we don't have to go through the honest situation. Um, but it is a good time. He's 24 years old, still hopefully his prime is coming. I mean, if his if he keeps progressing linearly, he's gonna be the greatest player ever. But if it's about time we see what the Jadens and the Nases can do. Yeah, we've always talked about and everyone in in Wolves Fandom has talked about oh, if Nas was a starter, look at his stats when he starts games, he dominates. Uh, if Jaden could just play like he does in the playoffs, well, now's your chance. You're both gonna start, unless moves are made, but you're both looking like you're gonna start. See if you can be star. So if they're not, you can make a decision of okay, ant doesn't have running mates yet. We do have to go out and make moves. But don't empty the yeah, would it have been was it cool that for once a superstar player, we were one of the three teams he would have signed an extension with? Yeah, but I would be kind of in a weird state right now if during this draft, without any picks for the next 10 years, our roster was Anthony Edwards and Giannis, and that was it. And we would have had to build like the 2010 teams where it wasn't about the soft cap. It was like, oh, we have Dwayne Wade, we're gonna cut everyone on the roster so we can just spend the rest of our soft cap money on two other guys.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Honestly, not that era. Kudos to the Heat, in my opinion, for that trade. Because I I think our assets were better, right? I think I'd rather have Jaden McDaniels and Namas Reed than Jaime Hawkins and Taylor Tyler Hero, even though I know Tyler Hero is like an all-star level player.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

A lot of picks though from the Heat.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

A lot of picks, but when when have the Heat ever when have the when has the Heat ever have had have they ever had desirable picks? Like, you know what I mean? I don't know. The Heat will probably be decent, I imagine.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

The picks are in six and eight years.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Oh, geez. And actually, not really.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Well, and the 12th pick this year.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

Yes, I didn't realize this year. But yeah, I guess I don't know. But I guess more specifically talking to players like a Jaime Hopkins, a Tyler Hero, and I can't remember the third name they threw in there, but uh Chloe Ware.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

I like Chloe Ware.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Yeah, Chloe Ware, and he he's a player, don't get me wrong, but I think it's just one of those situations where I feel like Miami prospects and people who come from Miami are always a little more highly valued. Just like trading for a Dodgers you know prospect or a Yankees prospect.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

I feel like if you get a guy out of Miami, well, Miami has such a good system that it's like okay, like these guys obviously play well in the in in the in their system, but it's like the Gabe Vincent thing. It's like as soon as Gabe Vincent left the heat, exactly, he was no longer a valuable asset. Exactly. I don't know. I do think I I struggle to believe that like Jaime Hawkes is still gonna be a valuable asset. Um Tyler Hero, I think you just still drops in value, he has Miami, he has to get paid soon, and it's like you want to make that decision whether you're paying him or not. Like I I don't I wouldn't really want to. Yeah, uh, I don't think that's a guy that you pay a bag to and then you end up winning a lot of games. Um Clobear, though, I like, and I I do like the the draft pick haul, um, especially considering I mean the Bucks war chest is kind of empty. Yeah, but I mean it sounded like they were more pressed to try to contend now because they don't have their picks in in the future, and I just not what they did. So I I I I don't really know how this is gonna work out for them, but I I think the moral of the story with the Giannis trade is they just should have pulled trigger earlier.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

Like, I mean, the the the writing was on the wall after Dame Blue was Achilles, but then they waved and stretched him and tried to run it back one more year, and that just did not work at all. So I think last offseason was the time to move him. They waited, didn't like what they had at the trade deadline, so they waited longer. Probably should have pulled up the trade dead. At this point, it was like, all right, Tuesday is our deadline.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

Let's we have to do it today. You've got to pull the trade. Two years ends tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Yeah, yep. So yeah. A word to the kids out there about uh procrastination. You don't want to end up like the Milwaukee Bucks. Nope.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

That is a before you move on from that. No, I was gonna move on. Uh, there's the like with Giannis. I think that this is one of the first trades we'll see affected by the changes in the lottery. Like, I was a firm believer. If if you asked me a month ago where Giannis was gonna go, I was like, oh, it could be a like a I thought it was gonna be somehow have Jalen Brown involved, and not even Jalen Brown going back to Milwaukee, but maybe Jalen Brown going down to Atlanta, Giannis going to Boston, and then Milwaukee getting their pick back from Atlanta. But now with the like the lower percentage of getting the top pick in the draft, if you're just shitty, like I think Milwaukee's gonna be. Now there's not as much like there is slightly more incentive to go for a group of picks and say, hey, maybe maybe in five years the Heat are gonna miss a couple playoffs, and that pick will jump up, as opposed to like up until now, you would just want the one pick that you can guarantee is gonna be bad.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Yeah, that's close to when you can select it.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

I I was gonna say, I I think you're onto something there that I think the idea is now to just have more bites at the apple and like have just more picks so that hopefully one actually pulls out of the lottery well. Um, but I don't know. I I just I don't really like the way they redid the lottery either. So that's it's my own either. My my own opinion. I'm like they flattened it too much to a point that it seems to just not even really be like it it's almost too random now.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

Yeah, it's gonna suck for the teams that are actually bad not trying to tank. Yes, if they end up with like the 10th pick or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

I just don't believe for teams like the Nets, it's gonna be absolutely brutal. Or like, or like the Kings are about to bottom out, and it's like, dude, you guys just are never gonna like reliably dock picks unless the lottery just uh forever chooses your favor. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Um, obviously, we brought it up though. Obviously, Iowa signs five years, 112. Fun. It's good to have him back. I'm happy with with the deal. The the the number's gonna look good here. I mean, it already looks good, but good player to keep in the uh in the wings, young player. Then Mike and Nori is leaving, but only a one-year deal, so he could be back in 365. We'll see.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

Yeah, that's wild. I know um a lot of I I hear per uh John Kuzinski that a lot of coaches are upset about this one-year deal and kind of the uh efficacy of that, where there's already an awkward player or like player coach dynamic in the NBA where the players make so much more money than they do, and just have a lot more power, and uh are just perceived to be more important than the coaches, so it's hard to really be the leader in the locker room when the players like everything seems to indicate that they have more control and more power in in the organization. Um, and then you add in the fact that he's there on a one-year deal with the team option. It's like, dude, there's a lot of guys on this team that actually are gonna be on the team for sure longer than you are. So I'd we have to listen to this guy. Like, I don't know. It's gotta be really tough to hold the locker room, and I just I could it's weird, it's just weird.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

Yeah, I imagine I when I saw the deal and saw some of the details, I can't imagine whatever. I mean, I guess it's just an agent. I mean, he's not in the players' association necessarily, but I have to imagine there are people in the front office of the league that are also probably not very happy about this, but good for him for taking his opportunity. I know he's buying in on himself, but yeah, a lot of risk involved, and I don't even know what the standard's gonna be for Portland next year.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

Yeah, I'm I'm gonna miss his uh post-halftime kind of interviews. He was he's a he's a good guy to listen to, nice little voice he's got on him. Um, I thought he was a great coach. It's it is very interesting. Usually there was a reporter on Twitter talking about how he knows like Division I football coaches and a couple NFL coaches, and he was texting, he's like, I just sent out some texts seeing if they'd respond, and they were all agreeing. They're like, that's the weirdest thing ever. Um that any coach would ever accept a one-year deal. Uh, but I mean, why not go uh like you said, if he doesn't it doesn't work out, and it most likely won't because Portland is Portland right now. Um but if it doesn't work out, he could easily get his job back here. So why not go like there's only upside in my opinion? If Portland overachieves, he can then either re-sign with Portland, or maybe he's like, I want to show that I can be a head coach, and then a team that needs a coach next year that's actually has a good roster, and money to pay, and I can't say too bad, he's got scoot on his side. So if he said this is a long play, I was gonna say trade scoot to all it's draft night, you know.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

You're pretty you're pretty quick to shit on Portland when they got Denny Advia and Scoot, dude. And Donovan Klingon, the starting center for Team USA.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

They got this could be kind of like a Trojan horse type thing, like get Scoot to Minnesota, play him a little less. Um, you come back here, get a raise. Yeah, uh, and if like if all the quiet stuff can happen and no one gets in trouble, there's Mike andori shouldn't get in trouble for that.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

What if he's like long game, long game? If I leave, I know Chris Finch can't like steer the ship without me. I go to Portland, take a take a raise, Finch gets fired, I come back and I get the I get the wolves job. You were never gonna get the wolf job with Finch there. You know what I mean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

But like Jackson number one right away. Like Jackson said in our group chat today, or that maybe it was last night, maybe it's today. Um, whenever the whenever he Mike andora officially signed, like, oh, it should be easier to coach an offense without Julius Randle on it.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

Right, right. The the blood oath that Chris Finch um has with Julius Randle is now no longer in effect with Julius Randle off the team, so he's not compelled to force him the ball. And I guess we didn't talk about this when we talked about the Julius trade, but is it not so funny? Like, now hindsight, all like the peddling they did to try to make Julius sound like he had like a great series and a great season. He doesn't have to spend they clearly clearly are making calls. They're like, dude, nobody wants this guy. They're like, Well, what if we go out publicly and say he was really good? Like, maybe then people will reconsider.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

He doesn't have to waste his energy, like 50% of it, on trying to convince people that Julius isn't a cancer of a basketball player.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

People actually watch, you know, it's easy to watch games now. Scouts can get taped. Believe it or not, they might have watched the whole title breakdown. Yeah, this isn't the 70s where he maybe you can convince like some team that you know the 30-year-old veteran actually has some life in him. It's like, bro, we know everything that you guys we we have all the data you guys have. There's no there's no like organizational advantage, or um, you know, there's less to hide these days when it comes to that. A knee injury you can't hide, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

So you can't score a hundred without any video of it, that type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

Although we have you know video of Hindenburg blowing up, and Babe Ruth swinging a bat.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

So yeah, I think I think anyone with a scouting department, um, there's those like 11-year-olds on Twitter that have gotten kind of popular throughout the playoffs. Those kids are good. Yeah, you watch Julius Randle play basketball. Um, and they know he's ass. And they do.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

Um, I'll kick it to myself quickly though, but Brandon Sorsby following up on our story from last podcast two weeks ago. But uh NFL told him to fuck off. No supplemental draft this year. And you know, I don't I don't feel bad for the kid. I I can't say I do at all. I mean, he knew what he was doing, and you know, you're a very high-profile person, too high profile to complete ignorant, in my opinion. And um, no, yeah, there I guess he was the only player to submit for the supplemental draft. I think there hasn't been a supplemental draft since like 2017 or like 2021. Can't remember one of those two years. But yeah, I don't know what he's gonna do now because Texas Tech said he can't come back, and I can't imagine any other NCAA team will want him. So I don't know, maybe the Raiders sign him, maybe maybe the Vikings sign him.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

Just take like a uh a gap game and hang out with like Johnny Manzell or something.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

You I'm sure you can go to NAIA or maybe maybe Juco, a Juco would take him, but the funny thing is about the situation is that the judge's ruling actually ended up fucking him over. Because now, like he's been not kind of cleared to play, but he's been that caused so much of a controversy and a stir-up where if he almost would have just gotten suspended for a year, he could have just been on Texas Tech's roster, probably still gotten paid, and then started for him next year, which maybe he wouldn't have wanted to do, but now he has to what not do anything for a year and then try to enter a draft after missing 15 starts.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

I mean, dude, if you get caught gambling on your own games, like you just shouldn't be allowed to play college football again. Like, I don't even like I don't even know there's a sit a year out and try it again like angle to this. Baylor, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

I mean, it that's like the amount that has changed. You started it with saying the supplemental draft. Last time we talked about it, you were talking, we were talking about how teams in the conference don't want to play them. Yeah, if he's on the roster, like he's not even on the roster anymore. Obviously, he was like going through a lawsuit, um, which him not like whatever if he dropped it. I when I read the article, he's like dropping it. There was just a bunch of stuff, but they're like, Oh, since he dropped it, he is now ineligible. Um, but yeah, it's just a I mean, the the no supplemental draft thing's funny. It's funny that the NFL has a supplemental draft that they can just kind of willy-nilly be like, eh, we're not gonna do it this year. Uh so it's basically like, do we want to help out the guys that fell for an obvious reason? Uh like Laal Collins when he went in the supplemental draft, he was in a little bit of trouble with the law. Um, but he got the Cowboys got him, probably a Jerry Jones paying the league type of thing. But yeah, this I mean, he does have a lot of, he's like Johnny Manzell without the heroics of Johnny Manzell. That's kind of what his career is like right now.

SPEAKER_01 41:57

Yeah, there's no like nobody's watching Brandon Sorzby highlight tapes. You you now are just the gambling guy.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

You can't like you can't even have the like was Manzel a bad pick? Yeah, but did I want the Vikings to take him just because, like, well, they have a 1% chance if he does what they did in college? Sorby, like, doesn't really have that.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

People like people have like had to convince themselves on Sorzby, and he's also just kind of been around for a while. Yeah, like help quarterbacks out because now everybody loves the number of starts you have. So he's one of those like starts merchants where it's like, okay, well, people think you're good because you have 40 starts in college triple. But he's 6'3, kind of dual threat. I mean, most of those starts were at Cincinnati, couldn't couldn't cut the muster at Indiana, but we'll see now.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

But yeah, I mean, one of the best baseball players ever can't get into the Hall of Fame because of it. So I I have a hard time believing. Like, I want to know, are they are there AM fans that are like, oh, he should be allowed to play all this BS? I mean like it's weird that there's people out there trying to kind of bang the drum for him. I think you could just never do that.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

They pushed the mental health angle enough where I think it gave the delusional fans enough to say, give the kid a chance.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

I don't know. The fans that are delusional enough to believe that I don't think really buy the mental health excuse.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

Well, they they it sounds good enough. They don't they probably don't believe in mental health issues themselves. Okay, but somebody, you know, somebody smarter than them told them that, and then they let people talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

It's more of that angle where it's like, well, if other people can claim mental health, why can't Brandon Storage?

SPEAKER_01 43:26

Exactly. Exactly, exactly. I got it, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Well, um, boys, the Thunder did it again.

SPEAKER_01 43:31

Yeah, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

The uh the the starting front court of a day Mara and Chet Holmgren is gonna it's gonna be interesting.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

And people, you know, people are quick to sell the Thunder down the river, obviously. They didn't make it back to the finals, but they were it was game seven, and that game was very close. So, and like you said at the beginning of the show, Justin, who knows if I mean the Thunder matched up much better with the uh Knicks than the uh Spurs did. I believe the Spurs beat them in the uh season series where uh the uh I believe the Thunder swept the Knicks in that season. So I think they only played twice, but so I don't know. Could have been we're we're a few bounces away from potentially seeing the Knicks or the uh Thunder repeat, but yeah, a Daymar is gonna be an issue for sure. I don't know. Is it Wemby's gonna be losing his chops?

SPEAKER_02 44:15

Is this officially the first attempt at a Wemby stopper? Like, are we gonna start seeing some seven foot three plus guys start getting drafted?

SPEAKER_00 44:23

I would I would think so. Like, I mean, I don't think he's getting drafted here because he's like he's gonna stop Wemby.

SPEAKER_01 44:30

I I kind of with you on what you're thinking. I think he'll get that label, and we'll see this for the next few years, we'll see a tall center labeled as their Wemby stopper, especially if he goes in the Western Conference.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Again, we we saw what happened to Chet when they just thought about comparing him to Wemby. I mean, he just eviscerated him. Well, Chet take Chet in Minnesota in tears.

SPEAKER_01 44:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:53

I'll tell you this. I'll tell you this. As a guy who's seen a lot of Caleb Wilson film, Caleb Wilson's a Wemby stopper. You won't find a motor in sports like Caleb Wilson. I I don't disagree with that. This guy is Aaron Donald like when it comes to the motor. He's never gonna stop.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

I think if we've learned anything about Wemby stopping, it's not gonna probably be another skinny guy like him. It's gonna be somebody a few inches shorter that has 35 pounds on him.

SPEAKER_02 45:19

You think it'd be a like a Julius Randall type player.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Julius is a little too short.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

Yeah, true, but maybe we need Randall back now.

SPEAKER_01 45:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:28

You think we can take our pick back uh and just Randall? Well, we gotta just undo it. We actually want our 28 first back, and we want Randall.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

Well, we had our Wemby stopper, but we traded him for Caprelief.

SPEAKER_02 45:40

True. That's uh but yeah, this will be Carlton Towns, no Wumby stopper. That is true. Got his ring. I did like the guy. Is it is it just pronounced Yaxel?

SPEAKER_01 45:52

Yes, I do like that guy.

SPEAKER_02 45:53

That guy just looks like an animal to me.

SPEAKER_01 45:56

Honestly, he's a monster, dude.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

In hindsight, Michigan was loaded.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:00

They had a bunch of women on their team.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

Yeah. Yeah. They had just this giant front court, and then they just had this like foul baiting, like flopping like merchant uh playing uh playing point guard. It was great. I mean their whole uh their whole scheme, like Final Four and Championship game was Elliot Cadeau, you just like run recklessly at the rim, throw the ball at it, and we'll just get the offensive rebound.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

It was like and they were like they were men. Like you don't always see that in college basketball. Like Mo Johnson, a man.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

Yep, that's on the board, man. That's the funny thing because the biggest knock for a little bit where it was like they couldn't shoot. Well, it's like, yeah, well, if they're just bigger, taller, stronger, and faster than you, I think they'll probably figure out a way to get around. In college basketball, that's still in a 40-minute basketball game. Yep, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

They might just overpower you in a 40-minute in a 40-minute college basketball game where you only have five fouls. Exactly, exactly. And they're calling them. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:54

Um, but no, we kicked you, Jackson, if you want to do your thing.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

Yeah, so I I'd uh talked to you guys about potentially putting together a list. I wanted to kind of approach this draft thing a little differently. Everyone's been making mock drafts and stuff, and I thought we'd maybe attack it from an angle of top five ceilings and top five floors. So, kind of just who are the five guys that have the highest floor um in this year's draft, do you think? And then who are the uh five guys that have the highest ceiling? And kind of by doing this exercise, I ended up kind of nailing down more how I felt about some of these prospects and building it out a little bit deeper. I'm only gonna kind of go through the top five. Um, but I can just kind of read my list and we can go from there. Or do you guys do you guys have lists?

SPEAKER_01 47:33

I have a full list. I I have thoughts on kind of because you obviously sent me your notes, so I have thoughts on guys, but um, I'm obviously I can I can contribute.

SPEAKER_00 47:42

JR, do you have a preference?

SPEAKER_02 47:43

Yeah, I have I have like my idea of comps for guys. I'll look at your top five um just because I know that fifth spot was kind of up in the air.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Yeah, I didn't do a full five on five, but I have thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

I'll uh I'll just read it off right now. Um, my top five uh players based on like the highest ceilings. Um I got Peterson at one, I got Darius Acuff at two. I got I put Caleb Wilson actually at three, and then Debance at four, and Keaton Waggler at five. Um my comps here for the ceilings on these players is I Darren Peterson, I see a lot of Kobe slash ant. I don't think that's like a super hot take. He's like a shooting guard, um, can create his own shot really well. Twitchy athlete, um, three-level score. Um I the the comps are easily there. I think obviously some of the issues with him is where the floor is. Um with him already having some more concerning um injuries slash competitive issues, I guess you could call them.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

Yeah, a lot of DNS is do not do not start for yep.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

There's a reason they call him DNP. Yep. Um two Darius Acuff. I'm just I'm really high on him, man. Um the ACC player of the year, um, kind of down the stretch on that Arkansas team in the tournament, it was just clear it out, give it to Acuff, and he'll he'll carry. Um, very reminiscent of a Derek Rose, another guard that played with John Caliperi. So I kind of draw that comparison there. Although he's a little bit beefier than Derek Rose. And the other one's Kyrie Irving, uh, just because of his kind of tight handle and again, uh three-level score at a really high clip and really nice vanishing finishing package that I think kind of resembles um what makes Kyrie so effective. Uh, but uh a little bit bigger than both those guys, though, too. So I think kind of underselling him a little bit with some of those comps, but um who knows? Um, and then this is high-end, so I mean, we don't know if it's actually gonna be where he ends up. Um, Kale Wilson, kind of some KG, kind of some sh- I've heard Sean Kemp thrown around for him. Yeah, I've seen Sean Kemp, which which makes a lot of sense to me too. I like the KG though, just because of the defensive aspect. The dude averaged a block and a half and a steal and a half a game in college. Like he just and like you said, Justin, just a really high motor guy, which I think kind of lends itself to that KG comparison. Like, I don't I don't know if anybody play harder than Kevin Garnett. Um, so I I I think I kind of see that side to him still lacks a little bit of the perimeter shooting, but like his his mid-range jumper is really nice. Like, I I've I was impressed with his like shot off the dribble in his mid-range game. So I seems like the three-point shot set could probably get there at a certain point, just with how the modern NBA works. But um, something we haven't seen yet, so you can't confirm it. So you kind of got to compare him to maybe some of these guys that never developed the jumper. Yep. Um, DeBanza. Um, I I honestly I got him at four, and I just I think Tatum just right away. I I mean he's still 19, kind of the same way that Tatum was 19 when he came into the league, looked good right away, but then he kind of beefed up a little bit and put something on that frame. And I think if Debanza does something like that, he's gonna be an absolute force. I mean, because he's already hard to stay in front of. Uh, if you beef him up, it's gonna be pretty hard to stop. And my last one, and this might be a little hotter take, but I really like Keaton Waggler. Um, I saw it a lot in his game, just kind of the way that he bends and how he's like a longer guard that just is kind of like contorts his body and is hard to stay in front of, kind of gave me some Shay vibes. Um, but his isolation scoring was very much so James Harden-esque, where I mean he got it done very effectively from the three-point line, which then opens up everything else in his game, uh, which kind of gives me the the the harden vibe where when Harden was really clicking, it was because the step back three was so dangerous that everybody kind of had to change how they guarded him. So um that's kind of my top five based on ceiling. I'm kind of curious where some of those guys land for you, if it's in the wrong order, if this guy missed. What do you guys think?

SPEAKER_01 51:32

Oh, I just off the top, I like that list and I agree with a lot of it. I mean, this guy who just got drafted, I think Nate Aymant's maybe a guy you could put on a high high ceiling list. I'm low on Nate Aymant. Fair, fair. Um ceiling's there. That's what I'm saying. He's young. I it's easy to always put these young guys on that l on a list like this, but exactly what they're talking about size, length, athleticism. Yeah, turn it on later in the year. If I could com and he which he had a lot of pressure put on him right when it was plays he plays very European.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

Like, I I don't know how like he's not European at all, but like he just plays very like slow and like calculated, doesn't really like need to get to the rim that much for a guy that like should be athletically a little bit more dominant. Like, I it's just I don't know. I I think that's gonna fundamentally hold him back because usually the guys that play European actually play basketball in Europe, so they have that kind of like intangible like touch and feel for the game. Yep. He does not have that. So I'm like, unless that picks up somewhere, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 52:29

With some development, I mean he's gonna be in Miami now.

SPEAKER_00 52:30

If anything, I can get a lot of free reign, but he's gonna be in uh Milwaukee, actually. True, my bad. And it'll be a buck. I think he could kind of end up like a potential Jaden McDaniels, even. Um, just kind of in the way that Jaden kind of plays a kind of a slower game, too. Doesn't uh that that's probably his upside, like his high side is probably like a Jaden McDaniels. If you want to try to give a ceiling for him.

SPEAKER_01 52:55

Yeah, I mean, probably not a star, but maybe a guy I like. Um, but no, I I mostly agree with that list. Uh, the way I've been looking at the bands leak, he reminds me of Ant, but a little bit slower, but with a little more skill coming out of college. So I like him a lot. Um, I think you know, people always kind of worry about defense when it comes to scorers like him, but in this in the stuff I've seen, he's a good team defender. You know, I'm not sure how much how great he'll be one-on-one on ball, but you know, you're asked to do a lot less of that in the NBA these days.

SPEAKER_00 53:26

So, but I also don't think there's like there's not a ton of guys drafting top of the draft that are great one-on-one ball defenders right away when they get to the league. So he's got room to time to grow.

SPEAKER_01 53:35

Um, no, I but I think he could actually be a really good team defender, which I think is kind of an underrated part of his game. I think with his length and athleticism, and he's kind of got quick hands, I think he'd come in right away and and and be a formidable team defender. So yeah, I I I compare him to Ant, a little not as athletic, um, but coming out of college, probably way more skilled already. JR.

SPEAKER_02 53:58

Yeah, there were actually a couple on there that you had matched with me. I've been, I mean, when he towards the beginning of the college basketball season, everyone was saying Darren Peterson does have that Kobe in him. Um just so explosive. Uh, didn't play much. Obviously, that's like the only knock on Darren Peterson is that. Yeah, uh, but when he plays, he looks like a freak. And I don't think I mean, if there's we've we know like firsthand when they start knocking you for your uh your motivation, uh things go well, you get a multi-time all-NBA player.

SPEAKER_00 54:33

It's always how I mean it it never never works out like Ben Simmons.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

I guess that's true.

SPEAKER_01 54:38

They always end up being a motivated beast.

SPEAKER_02 54:40

If you can if you're if you're a scorer who they worry about motivation, okay, then you're good.

SPEAKER_01 54:45

Then you're good to get you're I think Anthony Yeah, like D'Angelo Russell.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

D'Angelo Russell ended up perfectly.

SPEAKER_01 54:52

I think Anthony X and Edwards might be the exception, not the rule.

SPEAKER_02 54:55

But yeah, Darren Peterson's gonna join that. And his wasn't even necessarily motivation, just full body cramps is a weird thing to miss a lot of games with.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

No, I mean, but my I think with Darren Peterson is I gotta know is is he from the mud or not?

SPEAKER_02 55:06

Yeah, that's true. He had that dog in him, right?

SPEAKER_00 55:09

Like the edge comb, Anthony Edwards. Those dudes were never gonna like not be good. True. Um I I'll talk about that in my floor thing too. I got a couple guys like that.

SPEAKER_02 55:21

I had I actually had Wilson at number two just because I do think his motor is super crazy. Um, and we were actually spot on with KG from a motor standpoint, and I do think now he's not a seven foot-one dude listed at 6'11, like KG is, yeah, but he is a big guy. I think he can be a pretty in today's NBA. If you have good size, he's lengthy, and you try really hard, you can be one of the best defenders in the league. Well, he's super bouncy too, like for his size. Yeah, like he'll throw some down that you'll just be like in awe of how did he how did he do that? Um, he'll die for balls, but I think he could be a very good all-mba level defender. I also said from an offensive standpoint, he doesn't yeah, he doesn't shoot many threes. His form's not terrible. It could be better.

SPEAKER_00 56:13

I think it's a better shot, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 56:15

I said like prime Chris Bosch could be. I mean, if he could be get the KG like deep mid-range, that'd be awesome. But prime Chris Bosch when he was in Toronto and he'd have some 35-point games and be a top 10 MVP getter. That's where I could see him being on offense, but even more twitchy than that.

SPEAKER_00 56:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:33

Um, which Chris Bosch was before he went to the heat. He had a little more bounce in him.

SPEAKER_00 56:38

Oh, for sure. What scares me with Wilson is if he's like Marquise Chris.

SPEAKER_02 56:42

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 56:43

That's like that's that that's the guy I thought about this for a while because I've with the bowls kind of slated to take him. I'm like, what are like the negative, like what does it look like if he's not good?

SPEAKER_02 56:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:53

And I'm like, is he gonna be Marquise Chris? Like, is he just gonna be like a long guy? It's like kind of athletic. People think like might be able to develop a jumper, but never really does. And it's just like, oh, like great. We have the guy, we have like um like like a flowy big guy that like can't guard anybody, and just like is like a little too positionless, if that makes sense. But I I haven't talked about in my floors a little bit when we get to that. I I don't think that's a cause for concern.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

But I think you have the Banza low, which I might not be a hot take, obviously, went number one overall.

SPEAKER_00 57:22

But um, well, the this might hear me out though, a little bit on the on the on the floor.

SPEAKER_01 57:27

There. Uh but my my only thought is that I I would all due respect to Jason Tatum. Obviously, he's an NBA champion. He's received MBA MVP votes. DeBanza to me, he's 6'9 with a seven-foot wingspan. He isn't listed as a true point guard, but he said he wants to play a point guard in the NBA, which I'm not sure if he will right away, but the way he plays obviously handles the ball a ton. I'm the I think if you look at just ceiling in general, if he gets that consistent three-point shot down, not even be not even not asking him to become Steph Curry. I think if you go with potential, you have to say, like, not necessarily a Magic Johnson, but I mean he's a six-nine point guard with a seven-foot wingspan. I mean, I think that the is the potential.

SPEAKER_00 58:15

I watched a decent amount of BYU basketball, and especially when Richie Saunders went down on Valentine's Day, blew his Achilles out. Um they tried to put the ball into Bance's hands more, and BYU sucked. Um, I I he's not a he's not a playmaker, I don't think. At Bay Basically, I think he's a playmaker, nor do I think he's passing ability. Nor do I really think it's ever gonna get there. I I think he's gonna be more of a I he's he's gonna be more of a wing. Like I he's gonna be a matchup nightmare on the wheel.

SPEAKER_03 58:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:44

And anybody big and strong enough to stay in front of him is not gonna be fast enough. And anybody fast enough will not be strong enough.

SPEAKER_01 58:50

No. I think I just I like the mansa. I mean, he's I think he's becomes a more consistent shooter. I like this passing. I'm not sure the general playmaking's all there, but at least in the package I saw, he made some nice passes.

SPEAKER_02 59:03

If you're talking like actual ceiling, and I mean in theory, you could be like, well, every guy's love like ceiling is LeBron. Just like real, not even realistically, he does have some like Kawhi attributes to him, but I don't think the league will ever see a shooting progression like Kawhi Leonard. Yeah, like he is once again, we'll say it a million times. If you're under the age of 24, you don't know that Kawhi Leonard at one point shot the ball like Kevin Durant. Like how efficient and how deadly he was.

SPEAKER_00 59:39

There is a stretch that he was the best offensive and defensive player in basketball, and like you'd have to be crazy to think otherwise.

SPEAKER_02 59:46

Like there was if if he did what he did for 10 years, he is in the LeBron James Mike, like he's above Kevin Durant, and I think Kevin Durant's like a top five player ever. Yeah, and it's like, oh, he's the closest you could get to MJ LeBron. So, yeah, if somehow De Mansa learns how to have his release from a higher point and have a quicker release, and all college guys at the combine, they're just trying to hit shots, they're not focused on getting it up quick, but he does have one of those like low, slow shots, yeah, shoots like in front of his face, kind of yeah, and yeah, so like I don't think anyone will ever be able to do it quite did, but I guess Ant learned how to shoot a three, so maybe Devansa can't too. But I do think he is just when it comes to his point guarding, I think any guy who's a top prospect just kind of can be thrown into the point guard role in college.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:36

But the end of the thing is that you kind of mentioned that earlier where it's like everybody, if you're good enough, if you're the combo guard in modern NBA, you end up just handling the ball a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:45

So that's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:46

Yeah, no, we'll see though.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:48

Obviously, I mean so the this is a good transition though, because I for my top five floors, I think it's kind of a hot take. So a lot of people like a lot of the um superlibs about Camboozers that his floor is just so high. But I think the Banza actually has the highest floor in this draft. I I think that if at the Bance's worst, he's like an OG and an Obi Plus, where like he's like a strong physical, long defender, can guard like I mean, can guard one through five almost um at an effective level and is still just kind of a matchup nightmare. Um maybe not a matchup nightmare because maybe he never figures out how to get to his spots and be like an isolation scorer, kind of like OG. OG never has really figured out how to be an isolation score. He's he's an opportunistic score.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:32

And maybe that's all the Banza ever gets to be, but he's so athletically like gifted that I I just I don't think that there's a like I think his downside is so mitigated just because of his athletic gifts, and he clearly can shoot it at all three levels. Like, I mean he can score at the rim, he can he can shoot the mid-range, and he he's a very, very solid spot up shooter. So I I think that the big if for him is whether he can get to his own spots and actually create, but even if he can't create, I think that there's just so much plus there that I think he's got to have the highest floor for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:04

Yeah, I I would agree with that. I mean, you would imagine that he at a minimum will at a point learn to be a good defender. I mean I'm not trying to grant up a defender he's now, but he has the body and the length to be a good defender, at a minimum, a good team defender. Exactly. If he's not scoring a ton of points, I still imagine that you know he'll he'll find ways to be useful. You were you, I think you were talking about it offline. He just seems like a guy who's very determined. Such a high market, he's not going to just allow himself to be like a cam Reddish type bust. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:33

Like he's not gonna be DeAndre Hunter.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:34

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:37

No, I agree with the Devansa there. I mean, at least I'm just glad you didn't put I'm not saying Boozer doesn't have a high floor, but for months we heard, oh, he has such a high floor, he's gotta go so high. Like, yeah, okay, where are we? Are we talking like the basement or are we talking like the actual like the floor level? Because that's where the difference is. Like, there's gonna be guys where it's like, yeah, you know exactly what you're getting. Um, and Cam Boozer, could he could he be like, could he distribute a little more like he did in high school? Maybe.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:07

I mean, I thought he passed pretty well at like I thought he passed pretty well at Duke at times. I mean, it depends on the game you watch, right? Because the ACC was so shitty this year that he just kind of dominated in some of these games against like really bad teams. But like when you watch that Duke uh Michigan game that they played at like the Cap Center, he was like, I think he had like nine assists in that game. Like that they were consciously making an effort, Michigan was to not let him score, and they had all the bodies to do it too. Like they have, I mean, we just saw it, the guys went nine, ten, and twelve, you know. That they had like all these NBA bodies to throw at him, and he handled it very gracefully. So that's why he's on my he's on my number two. I think his floor is kind of like a smaller Alperin Shengoon. I think that's like the worst that he gets to. I like that. A guy that plays a little below the rim. Maybe his shooting doesn't get there to a point that like actually makes him effective or as effective as he could be, like a perennial all-star caliber guy. That I think because some people like are just clocking him in. He's like, you know what? He might never be a superstar, but he's like a perennial all-star. I'm like, I don't know. Like Alperon Shangoon depends on the year whether he's gonna be an all-star or not.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alper Shangoon screams two-time all-star. Right. Okay, 12 years 12 years played, two-time all-star.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:13

Right. And never gonna be a guy like defensive, like maybe he's savvy, but he's not he's definitely not a room protector. And maybe he does get kind of worked by the higher end offensive bigs in the league. Um, and that's maybe the concern for a Cam Boozer. But like, I just I I think a Shen Gun, just because of how like smooth he is offensively, like his post moves are gonna work. Like, he's just too big, too strong, like, and he has a good feel for the game. He he knows how to get to his spots. So like I I just I think that that's kind of where his floor falls out for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:46

Oh, I agree with you exactly like that. Just like a slight not call not to call him uh non athl or not athletic, because or camboozer is obviously a great athlete, but he's not below uh exactly underneath the rim big that has you can focus on touch and timing.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:02

You can watch Camboozer highlights and then watch uh Caleb Wilson highlights and figure out the difference really fast. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:07

There are I have seen like the Dante Sabonis um Damante Sabonis, whatever whatever, which one ever he is. Uh the Sabonis comparisons for the floor. And I was I'm like I was that dude averaged like didn't he average like 20, 13, and six one year or something like that. Like he's a very good player.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:29

I just went to die. I I would agree with you. I think his floor is lower than that. There's holes in it, there's holes in Sabonis' game, but I actually think Devonus Sabonis is like criminally like underappreciated, but that's maybe just because he's in Sacramento. Yeah, I think his career's died there.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:44

Isn't he's uh he's a he's a pick and roll handoff uh kind of uh assist merchant.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:49

Dude, I mean so is Jokic.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:51

No, so is you're right. So is Jokic. So is Jokic. No, um quickly, I just think Cam Boozer is one of those players, too, where it's kind of how the Frank. Franchise positions him. If you position him as a savior, like you're gonna lead us and be our best player for 10 years and lead us to Alario Bryan, then I think it um it limits him as a player. But I think if you look at him as like a really good piece to a bigger puzzle and like allow him to kind of like grow into that role and like grow into a leader, as a like I'm like thinking like Paula Banquero in Orlando. They like handed him the keys to the franchise, and it's probably never gonna be that good. I think if you're more realistic with a Camboozer, you can bring him up and and he'll be a better player over the long term.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:31

I mean, you're gonna need some talented guards around him and probably get John Morant out.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:36

He'd be a great pick on a team with like a top 15 John Morant and Jaron Jackson Jr. Like on the 2022 Grizzlies, he would have been like he might go number one to that team.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:47

Yeah, I get what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:49

Um, next, and Justin, you're gonna love this. I actually have Cale Wilson. I think uh I I'm actually really high on Cale Wilson's floor, and it's just because of the motor. Like, I think that this dude will not fail. He's like a competitive psychopath, and I I think I find his floor is somewhere around like a Daniel Gafford, where like a guy that I mean, Daniel Gafford is still like pretty long, but like just kind of uh an explosive, like short dunker spot, like rim running center, um, that that like moves pretty well. I had a little like Wilson Chandler mixed in there a little bit just because he's a little rangy and a streak. Wilson Chandler is a really streaky shooter, um, way more of a mid-range guy than ever a three-point shooter. Um, so kind of something like in there, in that range is where I kind of see him, where he's more of a defensive rim running specialist. But I just I I just I don't know. I can't get my head wrapped around the idea that Caleb Wilson is just gonna bomb out unless he just gets hurt a ton. But I mean his injury in college was like it wasn't like a lower, like it was pretty he broke his hand. Didn't he break his hand? Yeah, I broke him. Broke his hands. Yeah, exactly. That's not like um a cause for real injury concern uh on the medical sheet. So I'm I'm I'm pretty confident that as long as he's healthy, which doesn't really seem to be much of a concern, he's gonna be alright.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:02

Yeah, I think that's a I think from like a safe pick standpoint, obviously there's a reason. Could Caleb Wilson be the top player on a championship team? I mean, anyone could. You had got Jalen Brunson's out here now. Um, but like realistically, I think at his best he would be like a 1A, 1B type thing. Um, but he can definitely be a Robin on a championship team, and he's like his floor is so high to me because he can play defense. Once again, just look at his highlights. He is a very fun highlight tape to watch, and you don't often say that about guys that are like over 6'7.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:42

Yes. Also, that UNC team was so bad without him. Like, I I think that is also very telling as well, like how hard that team fell off as soon as he was out. Like, I I don't I think it's kind of documented how explosive an athlete he is, and that he's like a solid defender, but like I think his offense is underappreciated just based on the context of how bad UNC was when they lost him offensively. Like they they were like lifeless.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:07

Um, my next one, I I threw in Braden Burries here. I think Braden Burries' floor is somewhere around a Derek White. I like I he's just so polished and put together. He defends really well, he's scrappy. I don't think he'll ever be like Derek White has that little bit of Josh Hart in him, a little bit. Like he is a little bit of a power guard. Yeah. I don't know if he'll like Braden Burries will ever evolve to being a power guard in that true sense, but he he's he is just a strong, um, he's a strong defender and a very capable shooter. Um, and I I think that he his floor is just a key piece to a team that contends at a high level just because of how the way that he plays basketball, if that makes sense. No, yeah, I I like that thought. Um oh, and then I'll round it off with my guy. I'm just so high on this guy just because of his floor, because I think his floor literally is his ceiling. Um, and this is Giannis Steinbach.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:59

Yeah, I'm not familiar with this guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:01

The double-double machine out of Washington, formerly out of Germany. Um, this dude averaged a double-double in Big Ten play this year on a bad Washington team. Um he was he's like an 18 and uh 18 and 11 guy, and I just when you look at him, he's seven feet tall and he just he crashes glass, he's got great touch, um, he moves pretty well, like well enough to not be a total liability defensively. Um and I just I think he's just gonna be a serviceable big in the NBA for a decade. Like I think that they're like he will find his way around probably six different teams throughout his career. Yep. And he whether he's in a starting role or in like a fill-in role, he is just gonna be a serviceable big that I I don't know. Like I especially as bigs become more and more important, especially with like the the breakout of Wemby. We're talking about Wemby stoppers. This guy could present real challenges to Victor Wembenyama because of his size and his strength and his ability to crash class and make Wemby have to actually guard him on the block. Yeah, like I don't know. I just I I I I like Giannis Steinbach a lot. I think he'll be in the league for a long time, and I think that that's something that is marketable. And I mean, we just saw him go pretty high in the draft. I don't think people um before the pre-draft process were thinking about him as uh a top 15 pick, but he was so uh I think especially he ended up in a good spot too, um, going to uh Charlotte. Yep. I think Charlotte needs kind of a like a centering big like that. Musa Diabate, I think down the stretch there was just a little too small for what they needed. And I I know Justin, you're a huge Creighton guy. I I know you love your Ryan Kochbrenner. I forgot Cochbrenner. Ryan Cochbrenner is a hard Ryan Cochbrenner's a hard watch. That experiment experiment might be over. Ryan Kochbrenner is a hard watch, and Giannis, I I think I think it's Giannis Steinbach time in Charlotte, clearly, uh based off the pick. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:52

No, I mean you can never go wrong with a big old lumbering big that him and skill him and con and Lamello together, dude.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:58

Uh it's gonna be nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:00

And like you said, we're in this era of the NBA where you kind of need to have not that traditional big, you know, like the you know, we you're you're used to having, but you kind of need somebody down there that can is just knows their role and is is able to throw bows and be physical and and be a presence. Oh, Bennett Sturts, style guy going to Memphis. John Morant, see you later.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:19

That's an interesting fit. That's an interesting fit. I mean, there was a point in time I remember we talked about like it's funny. The NBA draft is always hilarious compared to like football, because a month ago, some of these guys are their range is like 35 to 45, and then draft night, it's like oh 14. Yeah, like it's crazy how much like and I know it's certain is kind of weird because like also guys can take their name out, you don't know if they're for sure gonna be in the draft. So it's one of those, like, oh, they might be considered this low just because no one knows if he's gonna play. Um but this this is one of those drafts. This is such a sports nerd thing to say, but I love the role players in this draft. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:06

That's always it's especially in the NBA, just because Ben Circe is gonna be an awesome role player. Role players are so prominent because you I mean you see their faces, right? I mean, they might not be nationally prominent, but yeah, they're important. Not every you not everybody you're gonna draft is gonna be LeBron James. Like draft some Nikhil Alexander Walkers. Oh, yeah. If Caraban is there, Giannis Steinbach. Sometimes you need to draft a Giannis Steinbach. If the women need to draft like a Young Barranjay. True. If like a Caraban falls, a role player can be a few. What did you say?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:39

If a role player like Alex Caraban can fall and we can call him the Caliban, I'll I'll be in that student, or I'll be in that fan section.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:46

I did see us mocked out to him.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:49

That would actually be pretty sick. I would take Alex Caraban.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:52

But I will say you shouldn't put this on the ceiling. Um, but the ceiling for how fun someone could be to watch, uh, Sergio, Sergio De La Rea, he could be the Oh my god, I forgot your Sergio. You're a big guy, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:05

Didn't didn't he save you in in one of your 2K dynasties?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:08

In in 2K, I won four championships with him, 10-year career. Obviously, Ant won them, but like he was part of that squad.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:14

You gotta consider stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:16

Just the exactly like 2K no out to be a stud. When the when the 2K drafts came out like six years ago, Nas Reed was the number one pick on the whoever's the guy who makes all the mock drafts to download on 2K. Yep, and uh Nas Reed's a good basketball player. You're on to something.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:35

Oh well, anything else you guys want to bring up, I guess, or otherwise we can wrap her up. Let's make it okay. Well, we'll wrap it up. Episode 193. Hope you enjoyed it. A lot to get to. We talked about a lot, a lot of good bulk stuff, a lot of great draft insight. So we hope you enjoyed it. Share with a friend, cousin, coworker, boyfriend, girlfriend, whoever. And uh yeah, we appreciate it. On Instagram at between lines podcast underscore zero at 0421 Twitter at back next week. We'll talk about a lot more. I'm sure I'm sure there will be a lot more that happens between now and our next recording.