Ep 196: Purple Update

Total Vikings glazing

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome back to the Between the Lines podcast. I am one of your three hosts, creator and founder of the King the Port Carver King. And joining me tonight, my my one good friend, just just Justin tonight, our our first Carver and official Carver and Justin episode. But Justin, how are you doing? Uh on a pretty nice evening here. It's warm in Minneapolis, I imagine that it's kind of humid in uh Omaha.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Yeah, it's 92 down here. Um which once I work remote, I'm inside all day, don't care that much, even though, as all of our listeners know, I hate the heat. It just sucks when I go outside at 11 at night to take the dog out and it's still 88 degrees. Like I would love for that to be over. But we're coming up on the best time of the year. Um, it is almost fall. I almost felt like we should have done like a minute, a minute and a half of silence for no Jackson. It's weird to jump right into me. Um, yeah, it threw off my whole leather bit. I knew it was coming. Uh, but yeah, it's it's uh good day. Almost the week, in my opinion, almost the weekend because I think Thursday is the best day of the week. Um, and I say that because Saturday is the best day, like Saturday is my favorite day of the week. Friday is also awesome, and that is why Thursday is the best day because both of those days are still to come. Um so and once you it's like football practice when you're growing up. Once you finish Wednesday practice, everything else is fun until the next week. That's how I think of work as well. You finish Wednesday work is basically the weekend. So um all downhill from there.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

And uh shout out, I know college football. Well, a lot of the smaller schools, D3 schools, Warpberg, my alma mater. I know they went back to camp today. So yeah, shout out to all those uh grinding it out, sitting there with a pit in their stomach, not knowing if they made the right decision or not. Uh, we've all been there. Yeah, on the turf fields too, just the boiling heat. I I think camp football camp is, and I was talking about this with a friend actually. We were talking about um when Brett Favre signed back in 2009, I believe, right? 2008, 2009. 2009, I think. Um I was at the pool that day, but looking back on it, how late he signed in the offseason because he didn't want to go to camp. Oh, yeah. Like school, like I should actually look up the actual date. Maybe I will, but school was like right around the corner. It's probably like Labor Day weekend. That's what I'm saying. It felt like it was literally like I feel like I was at because I remember I was at the pool and he signed. I feel like it was like literally the last weekend the pool was like open, essentially, uh, is when he signed. Um, but yeah, that's how much Brett Favre, a veteran of the NFL, hated summer camp, summer training camp. I don't know anybody who likes it. It's nice being back with the boys, being back in the facility. Obviously, football, the start of football season is still fun. Um, but I don't know anybody in the right mind that would uh if they could pick what time of football period they go back to, they'd go back to anything revolving uh summer training camp.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Yeah, especially post-high school. Like there are things about two-a-days that I miss in high school, but when you go to college, and I'm sure it's the same for the NFL, you're around a bunch of guys that you're especially as like freshmen in college, you're around a bunch of guys you don't really know, um, and they are your friends. They're not the kids you grew up with for 18 years, though. Uh, so in the NFL, people are always like, How are these guys getting into fights in the NFL? We're seeing a lot of fights on Twitter. I'm like, they're not friends. Even in college, I didn't know anyone on the other side of the ball in a football sense. Once school started, once you're in your dorm, you actually start to see them. But for those two weeks of camp where we're all in the same dorm building, we're not in our in the dorms that we're actually going to live in for the school year. It's like the offense is on one floor and the defense is on another. You do not interact, they're watching film at a different time. So it's like, yeah, these guys are a bunch of randos that that are trying to basically beat you out on the field. So it's just way different. Um, and it is it is truly a grind, and I definitely get what you're saying. Day one finishes, and you're like, shit, maybe I shouldn't have done this for sure.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

Um, I checked it. Brett Favre signed on August 18th. So if we were on the same timeline, which there is one more preseason game, so I think we would have been in the preseason at this point in 2009. I could be wrong.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

And I doubt he, I do feel like the last Favre. Yeah, I do feel like when Brett Favre came back, and I was in middle school, so it's not like this is in the etched into my brain, but I do feel like the first week and a half, he was just throwing, no pads, no helmet. He's just throwing the ball, getting the arm loose. And in hindsight, like if I was an NFL player, especially a quarterback who is one of the greatest of all time, there's no way in hell I'm going through camp. No, I'll like be there with my team, but I'm not gonna like practice during camp.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

You gotta remember, Brett Favre held all the leverage too. Like, we are going in with no options, and he was looked at and he was brought in as a savior. I remember the the caravan of Jared Allen. I can't remember who else was on that uh flight down to Hattiesburg to uh to go chat with him, but they they they kind of roll up, you don't really see that type. It was like kind of like the you know, LeBron decision type of recruitment. You don't see it a lot in the NFL, but um that's the thing I probably compare it the most to.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

It would be like if Braun, let's say he he was on the Cavs and they signed there's just no one to compare to Braun, but it would be like if they signed the nail the next LeBron James, if Wemby, if the Cavs drafted Wemby and they were like, We're gonna sign him, not you, so you can go test free agency. That's basically what it was like. And knowing Brett Favre, he was the type of person of, well, I gotta go play for the Vikings now. Yeah, like I have to play. He was gonna play for someone in the division, and the Lions kids under the age of 15 just don't understand how bad the Lions were, they were comparable to the Browns. How we think of the Browns, that's what the Lions were like growing up, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Uh the Lions and the Browns, I like growing up, it was there was I I went when I was in I lived in South Dakota for a while, which people might know. And there was a there was a kid that was a Lions fan there. So what was this? This is when I was in third or fourth grade, but even then I was so bewildered to see, and I barely even watched the NFL at that point. I was so bewildered to see somebody with Lions gear. I didn't think Lions fans actually existed because I was fan and all I know is that they literally never win.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Yeah, I mean, they were so bad. Um, but yeah, that's was the Brett Favre season. That's just just a good memory. Um, and Brett Favre went on to be who he is, but like it was awesome to have him as your quarterback.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Separate the art from the artist for a moment, right? Exactly. I mean, he is a Packer scumbag, too. So like I'm not gonna give him, you know what I mean. Like in the grand scheme of things, I don't like Brett Favre, the football player, or obviously the person I don't like, but in the grand scheme of it all, I do not like Brett Favre, the football player, either. And honestly, my greatest memory is just the the Tracy Porter interception.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Yeah, like if it's the play still brings me to tears. If Baron Trump could sling the pig skin and he was the Vikings quarterback, I'd be cheering for him. I'll throw that out there.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Yeah, I think I think we've always had that. That's what Vikings come first. Yeah, I think we've always been eye to eye on that. Uh, you know, and I think that's a good kind of segue into the introduction of this episode. Obviously, no Jackson here, so I think we'll do our purple episode as we like to call it back in the day when we tried to do this in 2024.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Is technically the second purple episode, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

So with just Justin and I here, we'll be running wild on uh Viking speculation, Vikings talk. Obviously, there was some big news this week with the JJ, but we'll we'll we we'll be talking Vikings here for however long we really want to go. Um, a little break from our regular programming. We were gonna do an FC and AFC Western win totals. Those will be next week, so no issue with there. A little programming uh change here, and uh, I think that Justin and I uh have no issue with it. But going back to it, you were talking about how you would root for Baron Trump if he was the Vikings starting quarterback, which you know, I can't say I'm too far off on that one. I think bleeds into the quarterback discussion that kind of just got ended, at least temporarily, hopefully, you know, as long term as it can be, giving, you know, well, JJ's are giving Tyler on a one-year deal. But Kevin O'Connell made the decision on Monday. What is that? Monday, Tuesday, can't even get right. Um, that uh Kyler Murray was gonna be the starting quarterback going into week one, uh, at least in the preseason and of the regular season, I imagine he is the starting quarterback of the team now. Uh, so JJ presumably is QB2, which is something we can get into, I guess. Um, but is on the bench uh nonetheless. Um, Kyler Murray obviously coming over from Arizona, essentially a free player. Uh, Arizona has eaten a lot of his massive contract he was on that is expiring after this year, so he'll be a free agent after this year. But like we said, JJ to the bench, Carson Wentz is also there, obviously, but the quarterback controversy is finally put to rest. If you even want to call it a controversy, is put to rest by Kevin O'Connell here, uh heading into week what two or three of uh training camp. So obviously, I root for whoever is starting for the Vikings. Uh, but I want to hear your thoughts, I guess, on the decision, Justin, and just the whole maybe kind of last few days and of camp and just kind of the the headwinds that was this JJ Kyler debate.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Yeah, I mean it took the honestly took the NFL world by storm. I hadn't seen a more talked about, even amongst the mass national media, a more talked-about subject than Kyler Murray versus JJ McCarthy. Um, and as Minnesotans listening to a lot of local media, uh, it was daily listens to uh Purple Daily, listened to a friend of the show, Judd Zolged, go over his camp notes, and he every day gave the update on the stats for that day on Kyler and JJ McCarthy. Same with Matthew Collar, that's where I was getting most of my media. Um yeah, it was some would call it a the competition we watched, a kind of a sham competition. But I do think going into it since the day he signed, I was under the impression that Kyler Murray, I'm pretty sure, is going to get the starting job. One, Kyler Murray has shown number one overall pick talent before. He's rookie of the year, he's an Eisman quarterback. Um, he's had good seasons. I remember the DeAndre Hopkins season, I'm pretty sure they were pretty decent. Uh JJ McCarthy has some tools, I would say, but there's nothing that he did last season, especially. I know he got better towards the end, but nothing he did last season that's like, yeah, you want to go into the week uh with you want to go into the season with him as your starting quarterback. So I wasn't surprised by the outcome. Uh as we talked about, it is weird that there was this faction of nine fans that are just obsessed with JJ McCarthy. Um, but yeah, now it's I think it was the right decision. And the main reason I think this was the right decision is there is a world where Kyler Murray plays bad. And if JJ McCarthy is showing enough during practice, if all of a sudden I've heard the thing that is still holding him back is he doesn't seem to grasp the playbook, which you listen to. Adam Thielen had a great segment on ESPN a couple weeks ago. Uh Sam Darnold talked about it in, I want to say week three, we played the 49ers. Uh, and when it's the TV broadcasters always get to sit down with the teams before when they're calling a game that week. Uh, and the broadcasters, when we played the 49ers, right after Justin Jefferson caught the 97-yard touchdown, were saying Sam, they got to sit down with Sam Darnold, talk about what's changed, why he looks so much better. And he said, Kevin O'Connell really puts you in positions to win. The thing, and they asked what makes the offense hard. And he said, in the Kevin O'Connell offense, you have to throw the ball when he wants you to throw the ball because it's not going to look open to you at that moment. And it seems as if QBs that struggle in this Shanahan tree of offenses. It's the reason why Brock Purdy's so good. He, I don't think he's a great talent, but he's willing to make the pass even if it doesn't look like it's there. Every bad pass last year of JJ McCarthy, it was either air milled, air mailed, or it's just a little bit too late. And I think that comes down to these guys are dominant quarterbacks growing up. They never make a bad pass. And once you get to the NFL, the good pass is going to look awful the second you want to pull the trigger. Um, so in a there's a chance that Kyler plays bad. JJ eventually takes over for him, and that's a possibility. If it was vice versa, there is no way in my mind, at least, that Kyler could have been quote unquote benched right now and then been good to go when that time came. I just don't think Kyler would take that well. Uh, so you might as well have the 23-year-old take the bench. And but before you go, I'm not saying that's that's the reason why they went that way. I still think Kyler is the more talented player. I'm just saying there was no out in week six if all of a sudden you need to make a quarterback change if Kyler got benched right now.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

Yeah, um, I agree with you that the progression's easier uh, you know, of that you know, kind of review of the two quarterbacks. If you start with Kyler, um, I think it's probably what the locker room expected, and obviously um what the fans expected, I think, as well after a while. And to your point, I think JJ McCarthy in obviously in college, right? Michigan was this really well flushed out team. Really good running game, two good running backs, great offensive line. You know, I would argue to say, I mean, I'm not a college football, you know, historian, but that front seven and those defenses from Michigan during those harbaugh years when they were competing for championships, up there were some of the best I've seen with, you know, Nick Saban's Alabama's teams and then Kirby Smart's uh Georgia teams, you know, they were at that caliber, if not higher. So he came from a system, right, where you know you you you game manage a lot more. And he was kind of a game manager. I think the the idea, and I don't say that disparagingly, you know, I love game managers, but I think he was looked at as a game manager with like plus arm strength or you know, plus arm talent potentially. Some things to clean up, obviously, with the footwork and mechanics. Um, but you kind of hope that, you know, with a professional in a professional environment, those things could be hampered out, especially with Kevin O'Connell. Um, but to your point, and and you've had a good uh understanding of this for a while, is Kevin O'Connell's offense is complex and requires a lot of thinking and a lot of progression. And I think that's sometimes actually a point of contention with some fans, right? Why do, why, why do we have to pat the ball for three seconds, you know, when the quarterback's getting sacked? Why are we going down the field? Uh, you hear that a lot from Vikings fans and things of that nature. It's because Kevin O'Connell Wright's playbook to attack downfield, to attack the middle of the field, attacking safeties, attacking linebackers. Um, and that's how it's gonna be. He's not gonna change his playbook for that. Um, you know, obviously with Sean McVay's team, but you know, he was an offensive coordinator on a Super Bowl champion team. So he he has a pedigree. Uh, he's seen it work, he's seen the process work out. So I think that JJ McCarthy right away was gonna have challenges adapting. And it seems like he just hasn't picked up. And and and I on the nuances of of the position and like you said, the playbook um and just kind of commanding the huddle. Uh, I was watching his highlight tape from last year that I think the NFL, like the official, I think NFL, JJ McCarthy, you know, year highlights. And a lot of them are his highlights are to wide open receivers, and they're like, you can just tell they're second late. So it's hard to say, you know, that their highlights in the traditional NFL quarterback, since the way that Matthew Stafford gunslings or the way that like a Josh Allen gunslings. And I know you could say, well, you're comparing them to you know the back to back and you know, two last two MVPs, not in that sense, but that way of processing the field and how they shred a defense, um, like you said, with that anticipation and arm strength, putting those two together. And Kyler struggled with that. Um, I have a stat here from our guy Warren Sharp, JJ McCarthy, um minus 1.8 EPA per attempt, 57.6% completion percentage, 4.9% in interception rate, essentially five. Uh all quarterbacks since 2010 with uh those numbers uh essentially for their first two seasons. Obviously, Jajimi didn't play, but you know that's not his fault, but that's also a factor you have to play in there. Uh JJ McCarthy, sorry, uh sorry JR, Anthony Richardson, your guy, Josh Rosen, Jimmy Clausman, Shadursi Anders, Dorian Thompson Robson, Robinson, Deshone Kaiser, uh, John Skelton, and CJ Bethard. That's minimum uh 200 attempts. So he is on a bunch of these lists, and if you're an analytics guy, there's a bunch of things screaming to you actually that he's probably worse maybe than he actually played last year when he actually did play well. Um so yeah, I think the decision was made. I think it's the right decision. I don't hate JJ McCarthy as I think just like in primary season, like we've been in, you know, Democrats and Republicans, right, trying to get their candidates elected, they go at each other. Um, but you gotta remember that at the end of the day, you were trying to get your preferred party in office. It's all about the general after the primary. And I think that's how I feel about it now. Um, I have no, you know, hard feelings toward JJ McCarthy. I don't necessarily think he's handled it the best even today. He he made some statements. If you would just tell he's pissed off, I know some people will say, well, you know, he's a competitor. You want to just seem like he's fired up. I would argue he seems a little petulant, um, but that's just my own opinion. Um, but I think the right decision was made. I'm happy that JJ McCarthy is still young, still on the roster. Um, and it looks like he's not going anywhere, at least for the time being.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Yeah, and I guess I'll compare what you said about his. I think his answers today when he was talking to the media were better than how he handled it back in the spring. Um, when it seemed like he didn't want any part with Kyle to do with Kyler. And I understand that, like you said, as a competitor. But as I've mentioned before, there is something to be said about guys who can stick in the league for a long time. Uh Nick Mullins was not a top 60 quarterback in the NFL, but the problem is the guys from 31 or I guess 33 to 64, those guys tend to not, they can't process that their entire life they dominated football. They're one of the best 60 quarterbacks in the world, but they're not good enough to play in the NFL. And eventually they're just done with football. There is a skill to be a, and I'm gonna bring up who I would say is my my betting favorite to be the quarterback of the Vikings in 2027, Mac Jones. There is something to be said about being able to take a demotion and then build yourself back up to, oh, I'm gonna learn a system. I'm gonna be a backup, eventually I'll get a chance again if I can just take everything in, turn myself into a starter. Uh, that that does take it takes a lot of mental energy to continue to learn how to be a better football player when someone is telling you you're not good enough right now, especially when it is your third year. Um, I don't want to, I'm upset at people saying it's his second year. Yes, I get that, but the every reporter is saying the issues he's having is understanding the offense. He could do that when he was hurt. He was trying to figure things out. And I do think part of the reason why these nine fans are so upset is when he got hurt in 2024 preseason, a lot of fans thought that he was going to start over Sam Darnold. I might have been one of them at the time. Like, oh, it'll be sick if he can play over Sam Darnold. He got hurt. Sam Darnold didn't look great during the preseason, and then things started to click once he understood the offense. I think that happened because he's a vet and he knows. NFL lingo, how things go, so it was easier for him to take that in. Had that not happened, had JJ stayed healthy and Sam Darnold still started, I think then fans would be less uh they would have less of an idea of oh, he could have been great from the get-go if it weren't for the injuries.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Yeah. Um, no, I I I agree. Um, I think it's painted, and I think that's been the the tough thing about this entire situation. You know, that injury has kind of I mean it's taken off the ear of kind of it's messed with people's perception of the situation that the Vikings are actually in, and and Kevin O'Connell's in, being a coach that hasn't won a playoff game yet and is um was extended, but obviously, I mean you're always thinking about your next contract and your next extension if you're a head coach. And I would say that Kevin O'Connell's on somewhat of a uh soft or uh a warm seats, maybe uh not not not screaming pitchforks fire the guy, but um, there's always pressure to win in the National Football League, and um the timeline kind of doesn't stop for anybody. Uh and uh yeah. Um I guess we can kind of just open it up. Obviously, that you know, the quarterback competition sucked up a lot of life. Um but there's you know other questions about the team. Obviously, they were not questions, but you know, there's other stuff about the team. Obviously, they they re-sign O'Neil, uh creating a little cap flexibility. And I'm I'm happy with that. You know, I think it's easier to as somebody who's been quietly being like, How are we gonna replace him? Hey, he makes a lot of money. I'd never really even considered just extending him. Um, he's a good player, still young. Do am I in love with him all the time? No, but um, I think that was the right thing to do out of the Vikings management. Just get him locked down and it's one less issue you have to do with.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

Yeah, I mean, he's what is he, 30 years old, which for a tackle, you still got six, seven seasons left in you. Um it was and I was also on that train of like this year in the draft, even even the JJ McCarthy draft year. If a if you're a football fan and your team ever takes an offensive lineman, especially a tackle in the first round, it's never a bad pick. You could have two all-pro tackles, and if there's a tackle that you see that looks good, okay, draft them, play him at guard until one of those guys leaves for money. It's like that is it's never a bad pick because it's like a starting pitcher in baseball. If you have a good starting five, like, okay, you better have seven more guys ready to go because at some point during the season, 12 guys are gonna start a game for your major league team. Um, so I do, besides the Ryan Kelly, I don't want to say surprise retirement, he had back-to-back concussions last year, which is very bad. Um I am I'm fairly confident in our offensive line. It's just tough to judge an offensive line when one, I'm not at camp. Two, even in the I want to say old school preseason game three. I don't most teams don't even do this anymore. But back in the day, third preseason game, starters are playing the first half. Yeah, even in those games, it's still only about 85-90% of the speed. So, offensive line is one of those things, week one, that's when you really find out what you have. Uh, but it is nice to have O'Neal back. Hopefully, Darisaw can stay healthy and he comes into the season healthy for the first time in a while, it seems.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Yeah, I think that's massive. Um, and I I I kind of alluded to that, I think, last week on the show is you know, people kind of banged on on Derasaw a little bit for his in the, you know, he seemed to take a step back. But like you said, I mean, he just was never healthy at any point in the year, and offensive lines a really tough position to start off the year banged up in because you are going to get banged up in, or you're going to get banged up. Um, and especially just with the you know the progression of skill at NFL pass rusher, like you're going up against a stud every week, every other week at this point. So, yes, um I think the O-line I have less questions about. I think remember last year we made all these additions to the O-line, Will Frise. Um I'm trying to think of the other guy. Will Fry's and uh I mean Donovan Jackson and Brian Kelly, Donovan Jackson. Yeah, so there was a lot of hope, and then the offensive line ended up being kind of a weak spot for the team and the run game in general. You know, I think that's more of like situation, right? The injuries. I think there is a lot of, like you say, I think there is a lot of talent on this offensive line. Maybe we were one year too early, and maybe that's too optimistic. But um, in general, the run game is kind of an interesting and a topic that's been kind of swept under the rug, I feel like. You know, obviously Aaron Jones, I think, provided us quite a spark last year and was a productive player. I was happy he came back. And I'm happy that he's still on the team. But I you know, speaking of just where things went wrong last year outside quarterback play, Jordan Mason, his kind of his injuries uh are kind of or he had injuries pop up. Um, I believe it was a shoulder. Um, but he was a guy who when he was on the field and when he was healthy, he had a few games where he took over. So I guess what do you think about? I mean, even you could even dive into fantasy here, but like the dynamics in the running back room.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Yeah, I mean, it's very I remember a point. I actually thought about this today. Uh, I'm an Aaron Jones dynasty owner, gave up a second thinking it was a one-year rental. That was in my mind, that was the plan. I believe this past spring, most of the reports were saying if the Vikings can't trade him, which you just you're not gonna be able to trade a 32-year-old running back, uh, he'll be a post-June 1st cut. And then nothing ever came of that. They they did end up taking DeMon Claiborne um in the sixth round, something like that. Yeah. And they have Jordan Mason. I think Jordan Mason looked good last year when he was healthy. Uh, just but the same with Jordan Mason's entire career. When he's healthy, he does look good. Uh, but there is a it's never one of those, that's never a good thing with a running back when they're healthy, uh, because they're just not going to be healthy ever. So I do think this is a very interesting running back room. I think there is something to be said. I think vet quarterbacks are much better at using their running backs in the way that Jordan uh Aaron Jones wants to be used. He was even when he was a packer, yeah, he'd stuff it down our throats when they got close, but most of his stuff was the classic Aaron Rodgers dump it off to him when he needs to, and he gets very uh timely first downs, just big chunk gains. And I think that is is nice to have Aaron Jones back for that. Uh, but yeah, the the running back room is that we're in that stage right now of you can't spend on a running back, you can't go draft a running back high until you have the rest of the team figured out. Um else the else of the media, the fans are just gonna be upset about it. So I'm very interested to see how this running back room does, but I do think tying this back to the offensive line, the from a there's a lot of stuff I look at when it comes to drafting fantasy running backs. The most important thing in football for offensive line uh efficiency is just continuity amongst that line. So for it's it's more important to have the same five starters or four of the five starters as it is to go out and sign like an all-pro linebacker. Yeah, just it the offensive line, 50% of it is just the terminology you have working together, knowing how that other player blocks next to you, and having trust in them uh to make the right play. So I think our running game will look better. And having Kyler back there to help increase the pass offense is gonna help as well. And the one thing with the KOC offense, some people might hate it. We grew up in the Adrian Peterson era, in my opinion, the greatest ever tote the rock. Uh KOC's offense, it looks terrible if the pass can't get going. Yes. This is not an offense that is built to establish the run. You establish the pass, and then the running offense starts to look good.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

I saw I was reading Alec Lewis's article for another show. Um, he had an article about the run game, and I heard about this too. Um, just in kind of my general football prep that I do as a uh a football connoisseur, um, talking about how you know teams are running the ball more, right? Like the Rams are running three tight end sets. Uh, they become kind of this run first team. The 49ers have obviously always been a run first team. Um, and obviously this wide zone has been kind of all the crave for really, I don't know, 15 years now. Um, but really has taken off kind of since Kyle Shanahan and and and this West Coast kind of run style has taken off. But they talk about how in this era of playing two high safeties, especially when you have an elite receiver like Justin Jefferson, you are pulling more people out of the box and you are pulling more eyes out of the box, right? So in theory, right, and this is why the Rams' run game has been so good, is because their pass game has been so deadly, right? With Matthew Stafford, Puka Nakua, and and you know, Higby, and obviously they had Tay Adams there last year, where you have to respect the pass game, right? You you get burned on the obviously, you know, getting burned in the pass is deadly in the NFL at the passing league. But it loosens up so much in their run game where you add that elite run strategy that McVeigh has, that run scheme. That's why they've been so dominant. You feel like you can't get them off the field. So can the Vikings figure out a way to you know implement this you know wide zone that KOC wants to run? Has been kind of trying to run, but not with nearly the success of some of his contemporaries. Can you finally pull that off with a healthier offensive line? Um and a coaching change too. Um, I can't remember what's his name. I have his name. Like uh they hired a guy. What's his name? Oh, sorry, I should have been prepared for this. They hired they hired an internal guy this year to take over the offensive line. Um, so you're hoping exactly continuity, though. They didn't go outside. There's nothing necessarily new to learn. Um, that they can be a little more productive in that. And that'll also, like you said, help the pass game, which is what this team is going to be built off of with Jordan Addison, uh, Justin Jefferson, TJ Hawkinson, uh, and maybe Ty Felton question mark. He's uh I think he's camp, he's he's Mr. Mankato, I think is what they call it over uh with a friend of the show, Judd, obviously. I think they call it Mr. Mancato, who wins camp. But uh Ty Felton's had a lot of highlights. I haven't been at Camp, but I have Ty Felton's definitely been the fan favorite of the social media team.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

Yeah, I've heard a lot of Ty Felton and Chuck Demings. Those are the names I'm hearing a lot of um for Mr. Mankato. Yeah, I think one obviously in the KOC era, the seasons he's good, and we're due for a good year. He's on again, off again. Um, and in these, this is like a 13-14 win season type feeling coming up, but we never had. I would have loved for the 2022 KOC team to have like prime Delvin Cook, and Delvin Cook actually was decent on that team. Yeah, you watch once once in a while on the treadmill. I'll re-watch the entire extended 30-minute highlights of Bill's Vikings. And I I always forget that Delvin Cook had like a 70-yard run, and in the Colts 33-nothing comeback game, no, yeah, the one he catches the screen to tie the game.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

He had such a weird season because when he wasn't good, people really pile on him and he had really bad games. But he also had like three or four games individually that he just won us and was our like the best player on either team.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Yeah, and we we haven't had that for a while, and I think it's because we're always scrambling at quarterback, like you don't really if you're not good, you don't want to be paying a running back a ton. Um, but yeah, I'm hoping things can get like I said, they have a good receiver room. You also brought in Juwan Jennings, so now you're at a point your top four, and I've heard Miles Price looks good. So if you have five guys in that receiver room that can play, the offensive line stays healthy. I think the run game will get going. And you also have to factor in there, might also be a few more pistol formation reads in there. Give Kyler some read options to see what he can do. It's I mean, this is no, you have to, you have to, you have to, you have to JJ could move, but he isn't an actual scrambler like Kyler.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

Quickly, I was that was probably out of everything. Like, I knew JJ McCarthy wasn't you know Tom Brady when he, you know, I knew he wasn't gonna be Tom Brady right when he was leaving college or Peyton Manning um when it came to processing or arm talent. I thought he was more athletic, and I know he is a good athlete, like he's an elite athlete, but like sometimes when he'd scramble, like he'd trip over himself. He just kind of looked goofier than I thought. And you got to remember, guys look goofy because the NFL NFL players are so fast. So if you are slow or like slight, like even just a step below like the athletic threshold, you are going to be made like a lot bad athlete. Peyton Manning was not a bad athlete. Like Peyton Manning's six, four and a half, six five. I don't know what his 40 time was, but the dude was probably always a pretty fast, strong guy. Yeah. Until he started going against NFL players, and it's like, okay, yeah, it's a different cut, it's a different speed. But yeah, what were you going to say?

SPEAKER_01 36:10

You yeah, you I mean, you grow up, these guys, uh, like these guys were probably some of the fastest kids in their grade, and then they get to the NFL, and their speed equivalent is that of someone who's 330 pounds. It's like, oh yeah. And those the guys that are 270 pounds look like they're built from stone. Those guys are about as fast as the wide receivers in the sleep. Like you got Miles defensive ends, just will always blow my mind that they're real. Um, that they're not taking performance enhancing drugs, they're just like this. No, like, okay, just person's just blessed, I guess. Yeah. Um Daniel Hunter. Oh my god. JJ, yeah, he and he had some runs. Like I saw the highlight today. It was JJ McCarthy. Um, it was to the what's the Green Day song? Best of our um Another Fork Stuck in the Road.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

Yeah. Um time of life. I hope you have the time of your life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

The uh it was JJ McCarthy highlight tape set to that song.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

That's so sad.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

And it was just the running for the bears. That was the only highlight. And it's like, yes, JJ McCarthy in a 40-yard dash is gonna run a good time, but there is something to be said about athletes trusting their athleticism on the field. Yeah, real athletes do that. Whoa, real athletes do that, and yeah, as the Marvin Harrison guy on the show, sometimes Kyler running pisses me off, but he also does extend the plays like crazy. Remember when we went from Kirk Cousins to Sam Darnold?

SPEAKER_00 37:49

It seemed insane.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

And Sam would like pick up a third and seven with his legs, and it was like, this is didn't even know this was possible. This is gonna be a whole different ballgame because now we're talking about someone in the Lamar Jackson, Michael Vick realm of things. Those two are at the top, but next down in the history of the NFL.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Kyler Murray is on the hall of fame of running quarterbacks in the NFL for the Mount Rushmore. Absolutely. Um so I mean he might even. I know Lamar had the thousand-yard rushing season, but I mean, if if Lamar's done running, Kyler might have the better running resume. I don't have all the stats, but he might have the better running resume. Yeah if Lamar is kind of done being a running quarterback.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

I'm gonna look at Kyler's rushing stats quick.

SPEAKER_00 38:37

But yeah, I mean, as long as it doesn't get him hurt, obviously. But if he does get hurt, we have JJ McCarthy and Carson Wentz, who I guess, you know, are they gonna carry three quarterbacks? We'll see. I think in a perfect world, Kevin O'Connell would like to. I know they have the weird rule about the safety quarterback or the emergency quarterback. I I don't know exactly how that works out in the top of my head, but you know, maybe in that scenario they keep all three, but we'll see. I mean, I don't think they're gonna cut JJ McCarthy, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

On average, Kyler rushes for 600 yards a season. Um, is there touchdowns on here? Am I just missing it? There has to be. Um, I'm not liking how stats reference is looking right now, but yeah, he's I can't even find it. Maybe it's because he's a quarterback. But yeah, I mean, he is so he can run. He's rushed for 800 yards in this season. You'd be happy if you were running. If Aaron Jones rushes for 800 yards this year, I'm pretty happy with that. Yeah, um, and Kyler also he does have, and I've once again talked a lot of Kyler shit. Yeah, he is a very, very accurate quarterback. If he was 6'4, he'd be the best quarterback in the NFL. He's very accurate, has a very strong arm. In my opinion, watching him, he just can't see, and that's one of the issues. But now he is playing with a wide receiver who does a lot of the work outside the numbers. JJ can do it everywhere, but he likes to work outside of the numbers. Marvin Harrison, who I was cheering for, literally built to work inside the numbers. Him and Kyler didn't mesh that well. Um, but I think people will be. I mean, I did you expect the Vikings to win 13 games in 2024?

SPEAKER_00 40:29

No. Um, I did not.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

And it's the thing with this team is if the quarterback can perform in the KOC offense, the reason why they can have these go so high, so low, and I mean, we won nine games last year. It wasn't that low. Uh the the guy that some fans want to be fired had a winning record last year and looked like his worst season ever. And it looked like the worst team ever. But the reason things can we can have these super high highs is that if the quarterback works in the offense, then the offense is just a top five offense no matter what. If the quarterback shows up and can operate it.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

Um, I was saying that too, and I understand that Vikings fans and I think the JJ fans following this camp, but that's why I do feel bad for them. And I'm I'm a Vikings fan. Did I want JJ McCarthy to be drafted and be our Justin Herbert? I guess he doesn't want to play off game. Did I want him to be our Patrick Mahomes, our Caleb Williams, our you know, these guys that feel like they turn the fortunes of your franchise around in you know a few months? Of course. And I hope we do get that one day. But this idea that it has to look a certain way, um, I just have never I haven't bought into it. It's something I've tried to break my get out of the thing of okay, well, you have to draft your quarterback, and he, you know, he's gotta be young and he's gotta be your quarterback for 12 years, and he's gotta be running up in the you know MVP top five, you know, leading off sports center topics. Like that's how you get into the Super Bowl bubble. Like you need to get like that notoriety, like notoriety, and you have to have like the right players, like they have to do the right things, you know, more than just actually being good. So I but the Vikings have always thrived, I feel like, in this position of having kind of journeymen, and I know it's been just most of our existence. We haven't had a lot of franchise quarterbacks, you already just won, I would say, Frank Tarkington. But we haven't had a lot of these franchise guys, guys. It's just about winning football games in the given season. I understand you want sustainable builds. I want a sustainable build too, right? Like a quarterback with like Mahomes, where you just have them and you know you're gonna be, you can stamp nine wins at least, you know, playoff at least. But it doesn't always work like that, and that's fine. The Seahawks are a great example. They put a good team around Sam Darnold, a guy who was middle of the road through his career, and he played smart football for a good period of time, and they won a Super Bowl, and they're never gonna forget it in Toss. Like, I'm not saying the Vikings can't win a Super Bowl this year, but this idea that, like, oh my god, we're so far away because we don't even have like a quarterback that people like on the roster today does not mean we are one non-competitive or two any further away from winning a super bowl than the Bills are, you know what I mean? Or the the I mean the Bengals are decent, but uh, does anybody think the Bengals are going to the Super Bowl? Like, I don't think I don't think the Bengals aren't necessarily a Super Bowl window. I know they have Joe Burrow, so like you're always in a Super Bowl window with a you know elite quarterback, but I wouldn't say that they're Super Bowl contenders, and you know, nobody's claiming that. You gotta have a good team, which the Vikings have.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

Yeah, I mean, it's it's one of those people need to realize one Kyler is at a higher level. Than Sam Darnold was coming in. He's a better, you're starting at a higher base. Also, the Vikings, you can be like, yeah, Kevin O'Connell hasn't won a won a playoff game, and I understand that. But had things been, and this was part of the reason I was on team, go with JJ, don't give Sam Darnold the money. Week 18, uh, final game of the season, we're playing for the number one seed in the playoffs. Sam Darnold doesn't show up for it whatsoever. And it's one of those, okay, he could do this during the regular season, couldn't get it to it in the prime time. And then the playoffs, he looks just as bad. And the Vikings were, if they win that game, there's a good chance they play in like the bye team wins, gets to the NFC championship, what, 70% of the time? So it's like, oh, we beat the Lions in the last game of the season. We're probably in the NFC Championship. And yeah, Sam Sam Darnold's probably re-signed them if we get to that point. But I was on the team of, oh yeah, let's go with JJ. I also have no problem if JJ doesn't work out. I think this idea of, and I've said it, you see it a lot just in the real world. This idea that people can like something, and if it doesn't go the way they want, they die on a hill for, well, no, I was right. I wasn't wrong. Um, this still would have been worse. Uh that's when it's like, I don't care. Anthony Edwards, probably my favorite athlete of all time, or Justin Jefferson. But if the Timberwolves, if Jalen Clark all of a sudden becomes the best player in the NBA this year and they need to trade Anthony Edwards so they can pay Jalen Clark, I'm I'm all game for it. That's the thing of it doesn't matter. I like the team more than I like any player. Yeah. That's where this idea of, oh yeah, I'm so obsessed with this guy. Uh, but yeah, I just think you got to go into the season any given Sunday, and you just have to think like, yeah, this is a new season, it's the NFL. Things change more than any other league. And let's be honest, 50% of the teams that make the playoffs, they'll make the playoffs because they were in the top 10 of most healthy teams in the league.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Exactly. Exactly. I mean, the Broncos came out of nowhere last year. Oh, well, it kind of helps that the Chargers were good, but they were kind of banged up on the front, offensive line, uh, Justin Herbert and Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs were, you know, fell apart, were injured. Like you can look at all these teams and all these scenarios and and understand why people would even, you know, sorry, Dutsy's not here, but people would even kind of look and talk about that with the NFC North last year and the Bears. Like, okay, well, the Packers had injuries, they were the hottest team, well, you know, their best team in the division, then they had injuries, and the Lions' offensive line fell apart, and they lost their head coach, and you know, that those things started to take you know effect. So yeah, uh you could always there's you know, there's always these caveats you could throw out there. Um exactly, it's it's usually the healthiest teams or you know the team in your division's quarterback gets hurt in week three, and you know, so yeah, there are a lot of caveats and and and it's all about playing right well at the right time, too. So Vikings, I think, are in a distant spot. Obviously, Carla Murray is going to be the starter this year. I'm looking it up, he's the third Vikings quarterback that has won the Heisman. I didn't realize that Chris Winky played for the for the high or the Vikings in 2006. Um, that predates my fandom. And we had Sam Bradford, also an Oklahoma winner. So this is our third uh Heisman winning quarterback that we'll have leading the Vikings. Um, do you have anything else you would like to say?

SPEAKER_01 47:51

Yeah, I guess I'll just say keep the everyone's got to keep their heads up going to the season. Uh, we still have Brian Flores. I've heard the defense looks incredible. Who knows? What if if Caleb Banks, who was every and this isn't just one draft analyst, this is literally every single draft analyst consensus as if he doesn't if he doesn't get hurt, he's a top three pick. He's D tackle one, D-lineman one. Um if what if he ends up just being good? There's things like that that can happen in the NFL that you just have to be like, oh yeah, this could actually go very well. All of a sudden, if Dallas Turner ends up being the player that I thought he's gonna be when we're we drafted him, if he goes for 15 sacks this season, now all of a sudden it's like, oh yeah, this team's really good.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

Yeah, this team's defensive front's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

Yeah, there's that's the one thing people need to understand is the only time in recent memory I went into a Viking season thinking they were going to be super good was 2018, and they were not good, they didn't make the playoffs.

SPEAKER_00 48:52

Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_01 48:53

Every other time we've made the playoffs, I was like, I went into the season indifferent on how I feel about how they're gonna do because in my mind it's the NFL. So just try to keep that mindset going into every season.

SPEAKER_00 49:04

You know, the team you you know when I mean to be fair, the team really hasn't been it was bad in like 2014, 2015. I think they made the playoffs and when the division made the playoffs. 2014, they turned it around a little bit. 2013, 2012, they're really bad. They haven't really bottomed out in a while, so I can't quite say this with complete confidence, but I feel like I will know when the Vikings are gonna be bad. Oh, yeah, going into the year, which I haven't had in a while. Um, I know when they're not gonna I and to your point, when they've won 13, 14 games, I haven't been able to predict that. But in those seasons, I probably and on this podcast, I've probably been like, yeah, if things go well, this team looks pretty good, and I don't think they're the best team, but I think they could win the division. And it's the same opinion I have this year, you know. I think if they stay healthy and you get more positive outcomes than some of the draft picks and some of the free agents bring in, uh, although we didn't really bring in any free agents. I think we spent the second least amount in pre-agency this five season, which is fine. But um, then you say, Yeah, why not? I mean, we have good players. Like, I watched the team, we have good players. Um, and you know, if you catch a few breaks, we'll see. But um, no, I agree with you.

SPEAKER_01 50:17

Once the season starts, I understand this idea of, like you said, I'd love to have a Patrick Mahomes. But here's the thing. And I think Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert, Josh Allen are great. I think Caleb Williams is great. Top five QBs. There is still only one Patrick Mahomes, just like there was one Tom Brady and there was one Peyton Manning. We won't have Patrick Mahomes because Patrick Mahomes is still in the league. Exactly. Once the season starts, I could give a shit about what happens in 2027. I'm not the GM of the Vikings. So once the season starts, I'm just excited. As long as we're not three games under 500, until that happens, we're out of playoff contention. I focus on this year only. And I think that sometimes is the problem with fans. They think so far into the future of we need a franchise quarterback. Most teams will never have a true franchise quarterback. You can have a Bo Nick, so it's like, yeah, he's gonna be here for a while. Is he truly a franchise all-turn quarterback? Probably not, but just have fun with the season, watch football. Um, there's a lot of it. Even when the Vikings, even the last game of the season last year, I'm still excited to watch him.

unknown 51:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

It's better than that.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

Everybody wants a Patrick Mahomes. What about a Jalen Hurts? Nobody talked about him. He has two Super Bowl rings, you know what I mean? Like, it's about the right guy in the right situation on a good team. Patrick Mahomes didn't win the Super Bowl by himself. They had Andy Reid there for years, they had Travis Kelsey. That defense was cultivating, they draft Ty Hill. Like things were in motion. They didn't just draft Patrick Mahomes. The Colts didn't just draft Peyton Manning and win the Super Bowl. They drafted Peyton Manning and actually sucked for a while because their team still wasn't very good.

SPEAKER_01 52:01

So yeah, people just got to enjoy football, just enjoy the season. And I guess in two weeks, we'll give our prediction on where we actually think the Vikings, how their season will play out.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

We'll do a full prediction pod there. Uh might be mixed in with our gopher pod, but we'll do a full prediction. I think we do MVP, all that all that stuff, maybe some hot takes um to walk in before the season starts. But it was all good. Okay, I think we'll wrap up there. It was a fun purple episode, episode 196 of the Between Lines podcast. I think we'll keep it in the it's still canon, so it's 196.

SPEAKER_01 52:36

Um gotta be B Rob.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

Yeah, B-Rob, uh, do the fish hook, University of Texas guy. Uh legend, just legendary backup kind of rotational guy to starter. Just don't make them like that anymore. You know, you don't see guys like that anymore. Um, but yeah, uh thanks for joining us episode 196 to the Brian Robinson episode of the Between Lines podcast. We'll be back next week. We'll get back into our win totals. Hopefully, it got us feeling a little better. Uh, and we'll keep rolling from there. Football is almost here. Football is here essentially. If you're mean, I'm already kind of in. There's no football to watch, but I'm I'm I'm already in football, so I think that's where we're Jackson I know as well. So anyway, that's we'll keep rocking, we'll keep rolling.